200 hours of story for each class... that is a "small story" in your eyes? quickly done? And that is just the story, not all of the other things you can do in order to level and interact with other people. If that's a month of gameplay in your mind, that really says a lot about the state of your mind.
It's my expectation based on having a lot of experience with many MMOs, single-player RPGs and BioWare spefically. The truth of it we'll see when it comes out.
I also am talking about what I've seen based on info released. "All the other stuff you can do to interact with other people" is something that there is virtually no information on. If tomorrow BioWare releases new information on "massive smuggling, bounty-hunting and non-combat mechanics", then I'll revise my expectations. Until then, my assumption is that you're going from storyline quest to storyline quest, with a few side-quests, some occassional critters to kill and frequent visits to in-game market.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Given everything that has been released, I expect SWTOR to be a fun game to play single-player and do some grouping in as you complete what is sure to be a well-written and interesting storyline. I expect it to provide approximately a month of gameplay in worst case and two months in best case. I expect it to be completely shallow and uninteresting as an MMO and have little to no reason to stick around after the initial storyline is (quickly) done.
I expect to buy the game pretty much regardless of any new information. I love BioWare's single-player games and I know they'll deliver me at least that for my $50. To me, any game that delivers a month of fun is more than worth the money.
At the same time, I'm hugely disappointed in the approach BioWare took in developing a massive and well-documented world into a streamlined, pre-written, mostly single-player experience that is satisfied to merely tell each person a small story. This may be enough for quick entertainment games like Mass Effect (awesome!) and KOTOR (awesome!) but it's not a good aspiration for the genre where the key accomplishment is the type of world you build for player to inhabit.
It didn't need to be SWG2 or X-Wing, but it should have aimed higher in striving to provide the star wars experience than simply settling for being "Disney's Lightsaber Orgy: Now featuring JediFox minigame".
Honestly put together a synopsys about what SWG was about then compare it to what TOR is about and if you are being objective I hardly understand how you can justify that statement. Star Wars in my eyes is and has always been about the story, the epic quests that were set upon by the heroes of that galaxy, it was not about moisture farming until you cornered the market (even though that was an interesting mechanic). The plot line to Star Wars could well be the most well known "story" in movie history yet somehow you see it as they are going about this wrong?
It's plainly obvious you are not some kind of irrational naysayer but I think you atleast are underselling what Bioware is trying to accomplish. They have even stated this game will have more content than every Bioware game put together and I can think of more than one Bioware game I enjoyed for more than a year.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I think the article poster is a bit stupid..seriously why all people think that this is a bad thing?
You know..befor they told us that there will be space actions they never wanted this in the vanilla game. Now they have added a mini game and you all dont like this. You know..they can still change this with expansions? there will be definitley an expansion with a different space fighting system and so on. Just wait. The game is huge right now even when there is no space fight. This mini game is just an extra that they took to give you some other options than just running around and making quests or other things on the planets. Really...think about it befor you build up a stupid idea
My expectations for SWTOR had all pretty much been met up to the point of this Space Combat thing...Like some around here I did not expect Space at Launch, what I did expect was if in fact BioWare took on Space Combat...it would be amazing...I think as polished as this looks and all it's going to fall far short of amazing, and I think thats a shame actually...I hate to keep running this out, but I can't for the life of me understand why this Dev Team would attempt any Space Combat that could potentially fall short of JTL...And I just don't see how Space Combat on a rail...as cool, shiny and colorful as it may look...can compare to a 360 degree Space Sim Developed in 2010...I think BioWare is REALLY falling short here and it's a shame. I would have been more than happy to wait until 2012 or 2013 to see an incredible Space Sim in SWTOR...And maybe that's what will happen in the end...Because this thing looks like it was thrown together to appease the massive cry for Space Combat...It just looks like a temporary fix...Everything about this Game should be Epic including Space...Save the mini games for Pazaak...
Honestly put together a synopsys about what SWG was about then compare it to what TOR is about and if you are being objective I hardly understand how you can justify that statement. Star Wars in my eyes is and has always been about the story, the epic quests that were set upon by the heroes of that galaxy, it was not about moisture farming until you cornered the market (even though that was an interesting mechanic). The plot line to Star Wars could well be the most well known "story" in movie history yet somehow you see it as they are going about this wrong?
It's plainly obvious you are not some kind of irrational naysayer but I think you atleast are underselling what Bioware is trying to accomplish. They have even stated this game will have more content than every Bioware game put together and I can think of more than one Bioware game I enjoyed for more than a year.
I understand perfectly what they are trying to accomplish and why. And as far as being representtive of the star wars MOVIE, i think it's valid. Unfortunately, the star wars MOVIE has room for maybe... 20 heroes, max. Which (probably not by accident) is pretty close to how many storyline options SWTOR is going to have (different story for each subclass or whatnote). ANd if this was a game designed for 20 people, then I would say "well done BioWare, you've picked the perfect approach!"
However, this game is designed for 10,000-50,000 (approx number of people per server) of protagonists. And the fact is, you can't have 50,000 Luke Skywalkers all with the same story (even if it has minor variations). So by extension, you cannot design a game the same way for 50,000 as you do for 20. You can make a game for 20 that represents just the MOVIE. When you make a game for 50,000, you have to represent more of the WORLD. And while people bring up boring things like moisture farming as examples of bad gameplay, there are plenty of more interesting gameplay possibilities in the star wars galaxy than farming. And not all of them have to do with shooting tie-fighters either.
Everquest 2 has more content than every bioware game put together. So do a few other MMOs. It's really not a huge claim when you switch over to the MMO genre. (EQ2 has over 5,000 pre-written quests). There are many MMOs that have used the story-driven approach to varied effect. And while some were totally awesome and managed to tell amazing stories, I think most long-time MMO gamers will tell you that the majority of meaningful time spent in an MMO over the years has not been spent doing the main story quests. Bioware is betting that all the other games just weren't good enough and that they can change things. They're not the first company to make this bet, but they are the best. Who knows, maybe they'll succeed. Just all evidence points otherwise.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I expect a WoW like Star Wars themed game with voice over story. I expect laser blasters and star wars sounds. For these alone I ll "try" it out. But unfortunately wow in space doesn't interest me when I can play WoW. I say hold judgement try it, but if there isnt enough to hold the community other than "story" people will go back to wow.
Originally posted by soglo 200 hours of story for each class... that is a "small story" in your eyes? quickly done? And that is just the story, not all of the other things you can do in order to level and interact with other people. If that's a month of gameplay in your mind, that really says a lot about the state of your mind.
1) I seriously doubt there will be 200 hours for each class. Classes are probably gonna have their own quest line each, but not everything will be different (i say only a small part), thus probably a few dozen hours will be actually "class specific".
2) Even considering the 200 hours per class as true, what part of those 200 hours will be actual content, and how many "kill stormtroopers and collect 200 shoulderpads" quests will there be...?
200 hours of story for each class... that is a "small story" in your eyes? quickly done? And that is just the story, not all of the other things you can do in order to level and interact with other people. If that's a month of gameplay in your mind, that really says a lot about the state of your mind.
1) I seriously doubt there will be 200 hours for each class. Classes are probably gonna have their own quest line each, but not everything will be different (i say only a small part), thus probably a few dozen hours will be actually "class specific".
2) Even considering the 200 hours per class as true, what part of those 200 hours will be actual content, and how many "kill stormtroopers and collect 200 shoulderpads" quests will there be...?
Have you not read or heard anything about the game? Each class has a completely different storyline, which gets compounded by your alignment, companion choice, advanced class choice etc. 200 hours of personal story is the low estimate the quote was 200+ hours of story. The shared quests are called group quests which are part of the world quests. You CAN share personal story quests with groups too though.
out of those 200 hours, most of it will take place in the open world. How many kill 10 rats quests will there be? Theres no telling, but there are plenty more quests then just collect X amount, just watch some of the class videos.
Honestly put together a synopsys about what SWG was about then compare it to what TOR is about and if you are being objective I hardly understand how you can justify that statement. Star Wars in my eyes is and has always been about the story, the epic quests that were set upon by the heroes of that galaxy, it was not about moisture farming until you cornered the market (even though that was an interesting mechanic). The plot line to Star Wars could well be the most well known "story" in movie history yet somehow you see it as they are going about this wrong?
It's plainly obvious you are not some kind of irrational naysayer but I think you atleast are underselling what Bioware is trying to accomplish. They have even stated this game will have more content than every Bioware game put together and I can think of more than one Bioware game I enjoyed for more than a year.
I understand perfectly what they are trying to accomplish and why. And as far as being representtive of the star wars MOVIE, i think it's valid. Unfortunately, the star wars MOVIE has room for maybe... 20 heroes, max. Which (probably not by accident) is pretty close to how many storyline options SWTOR is going to have (different story for each subclass or whatnote). ANd if this was a game designed for 20 people, then I would say "well done BioWare, you've picked the perfect approach!"
However, this game is designed for 10,000-50,000 (approx number of people per server) of protagonists. And the fact is, you can't have 50,000 Luke Skywalkers all with the same story (even if it has minor variations). So by extension, you cannot design a game the same way for 50,000 as you do for 20. You can make a game for 20 that represents just the MOVIE. When you make a game for 50,000, you have to represent more of the WORLD. And while people bring up boring things like moisture farming as examples of bad gameplay, there are plenty of more interesting gameplay possibilities in the star wars galaxy than farming. And not all of them have to do with shooting tie-fighters either.
Everquest 2 has more content than every bioware game put together. So do a few other MMOs. It's really not a huge claim when you switch over to the MMO genre. (EQ2 has over 5,000 pre-written quests). There are many MMOs that have used the story-driven approach to varied effect. And while some were totally awesome and managed to tell amazing stories, I think most long-time MMO gamers will tell you that the majority of meaningful time spent in an MMO over the years has not been spent doing the main story quests. Bioware is betting that all the other games just weren't good enough and that they can change things. They're not the first company to make this bet, but they are the best. Who knows, maybe they'll succeed. Just all evidence points otherwise.
I don't think its as easy as saying EQ2 has more content then every BioWare game put together, 5,000 prewritten quests doesn't prove much, as how many quests does KOTOR have? NWNs? The expansions? DA DLCs? How could you even begin to determine that number rationally? Not to mention, each BioWare game has split content, per class, sometimes per race, and per choice made. This isn't just a topical view of the games in question and saying "yeah this game looks like it has more content". In the very least I'd expect that you've played every BioWare game and had your completion time written down. Perhaps then we'd have at least a minimal starting point.
No MMO to date has done the story driven approach in this way before, to this extent. It just hasn't been done. I've never seen combat that looks like the combat we're seeing here, not in SWG, not even with MxO and their cinematic locked in combat. Neither the block parry combat that was so jerky in PoTBS.
But if content is king, even if you remove the plus for personal story and stick with just 200 hours of personal story gameplay, on top of that you still have all of the group quests, all the PvP, all of the other mini games or what have you, and fighting for planetary control. Thats not even getting into the crafting, creating any alts, or any of the other items BioWare is known for adding (you know, those little details like pod racing and pazaak, even "gladiator" arenas).
With quite a few months away from even a solid release date, I think they've already blown a great number of current MMOs out of the water, content wise, and all the features haven't even been released yet.
I think SW:TOR will have loads of content and great music but i'm having my doubts about the gameplay. Possibly more of the same (old) classic MMO game mechanics. If this game shows any hint of failing then the MMORPG genre is thruly dead (also thanks to the F2P model). Then Co-op shooter games are the only future of multiplayergames, since they are popping up like mushrooms left right and center anyway.
If you were expecting the game not to have space at launch, but be a full fledged expansion, I really wish you had read about Gordon Walton's panel at GDC in March. Gordon was one of the principles behind the JTL expansion in SWG and is also working on TOR. He called JTL a big mistake that actually hurt retention. Sure, the vocal minority on msg boards liked it, but the casual mmorpg player just wanted the exisitng content to be fixed/expanded on. They didn't want a space flight shooter that really didn't fit their skill sets anyway.
If the guy behind that expansion is now working on this game, and thought that expansion was a big mistake for SWG, why would he repeat such an egregious error? No, from the moment I read that article in March, I knew that space would not be an expansion, it would be in the game at launch, or never at all.
XAVIER DRAGEN :: RECRUITING OFFICER :: ZERO³ :: STAR WARS: THE OLD REPUBLIC
expected there to be some form of "decent" space combat... not at release though if I'm honest. A msg saying that they are planning space combat but not for release, perhaps for the first expansion would have met my expectations.
As it is with space combat on rails there is pretty much 0 chance now of seeing any form of decent space combat as we saw in swg as I can't see bioware wasting money they invested in the current form of space combat and admitting they made a mistake.
And to all those moaning at people for complaining about a feature not being in the game, wtf is your problem? People are all expected to like the same thing and expect the same things as you from a game? People like different things and people expect different things from a game. It just so happens the people complaining about space combat really wanted space combat in this game simular to what swg offered. Hardly a big ask from a game with a big budget and released 7-8 years after SWG.
Honestly put together a synopsys about what SWG was about then compare it to what TOR is about and if you are being objective I hardly understand how you can justify that statement. Star Wars in my eyes is and has always been about the story, the epic quests that were set upon by the heroes of that galaxy, it was not about moisture farming until you cornered the market (even though that was an interesting mechanic). The plot line to Star Wars could well be the most well known "story" in movie history yet somehow you see it as they are going about this wrong?
It's plainly obvious you are not some kind of irrational naysayer but I think you atleast are underselling what Bioware is trying to accomplish. They have even stated this game will have more content than every Bioware game put together and I can think of more than one Bioware game I enjoyed for more than a year.
I understand perfectly what they are trying to accomplish and why. And as far as being representtive of the star wars MOVIE, i think it's valid. Unfortunately, the star wars MOVIE has room for maybe... 20 heroes, max. Which (probably not by accident) is pretty close to how many storyline options SWTOR is going to have (different story for each subclass or whatnote). ANd if this was a game designed for 20 people, then I would say "well done BioWare, you've picked the perfect approach!"
However, this game is designed for 10,000-50,000 (approx number of people per server) of protagonists. And the fact is, you can't have 50,000 Luke Skywalkers all with the same story (even if it has minor variations). So by extension, you cannot design a game the same way for 50,000 as you do for 20. You can make a game for 20 that represents just the MOVIE. When you make a game for 50,000, you have to represent more of the WORLD. And while people bring up boring things like moisture farming as examples of bad gameplay, there are plenty of more interesting gameplay possibilities in the star wars galaxy than farming. And not all of them have to do with shooting tie-fighters either.
Everquest 2 has more content than every bioware game put together. So do a few other MMOs. It's really not a huge claim when you switch over to the MMO genre. (EQ2 has over 5,000 pre-written quests). There are many MMOs that have used the story-driven approach to varied effect. And while some were totally awesome and managed to tell amazing stories, I think most long-time MMO gamers will tell you that the majority of meaningful time spent in an MMO over the years has not been spent doing the main story quests. Bioware is betting that all the other games just weren't good enough and that they can change things. They're not the first company to make this bet, but they are the best. Who knows, maybe they'll succeed. Just all evidence points otherwise.
I don't think its as easy as saying EQ2 has more content then every BioWare game put together, 5,000 prewritten quests doesn't prove much, as how many quests does KOTOR have? NWNs? The expansions? DA DLCs? How could you even begin to determine that number rationally? Not to mention, each BioWare game has split content, per class, sometimes per race, and per choice made. This isn't just a topical view of the games in question and saying "yeah this game looks like it has more content". In the very least I'd expect that you've played every BioWare game and had your completion time written down. Perhaps then we'd have at least a minimal starting point.
No MMO to date has done the story driven approach in this way before, to this extent. It just hasn't been done. I've never seen combat that looks like the combat we're seeing here, not in SWG, not even with MxO and their cinematic locked in combat. Neither the block parry combat that was so jerky in PoTBS.
But if content is king, even if you remove the plus for personal story and stick with just 200 hours of personal story gameplay, on top of that you still have all of the group quests, all the PvP, all of the other mini games or what have you, and fighting for planetary control. Thats not even getting into the crafting, creating any alts, or any of the other items BioWare is known for adding (you know, those little details like pod racing and pazaak, even "gladiator" arenas).
With quite a few months away from even a solid release date, I think they've already blown a great number of current MMOs out of the water, content wise, and all the features haven't even been released yet.
True the game is more than just a few months away from any kind of release, but claiming that its blown a great number of other MMO's out of the water is... hilarious.. we dont know if the game is even going to be a success yet, and already your saying its done all these things, so far its not even done as much as Cryptic has done with STO.. until the game is released, and people actually start playing, its just guesswork, it might be amazing, it might get 12 million subscribers, or it might only get a few thousand, and fold after an abysmal performance.. or even somewhere in between, but there is one thing for sure, if the game is 'over hyped' then there will be a lot of disapointed people even if the game isnt that bad.
200 hours of story for each class... that is a "small story" in your eyes? quickly done? And that is just the story, not all of the other things you can do in order to level and interact with other people. If that's a month of gameplay in your mind, that really says a lot about the state of your mind.
It's my expectation based on having a lot of experience with many MMOs, single-player RPGs and BioWare spefically. The truth of it we'll see when it comes out.
I also am talking about what I've seen based on info released. "All the other stuff you can do to interact with other people" is something that there is virtually no information on. If tomorrow BioWare releases new information on "massive smuggling, bounty-hunting and non-combat mechanics", then I'll revise my expectations. Until then, my assumption is that you're going from storyline quest to storyline quest, with a few side-quests, some occassional critters to kill and frequent visits to in-game market.
If you have experience with BW games, then you know you get 50+ hrs of gaming out of each one. This game is supposed to have more content then all other BW games combined.....so say 50 hrs for each class(realistic....although I suppose there could be 200 hrs each) and you are talking 400 hrs of storyline gameplay alone.
Like I said in prior post...well worth the box cost.
If by chance there really is 200 hrs per class, so 1600 total, it will take a pre-order to make sure you have a copy of the game....as it will be flying off shelves. Most folks appreciate value for their dollar.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
My expectations for SWTOR have been greatly lowered with the "Space Combat" reveal. I too in full disclosure was a SWG day one vet. However, I gave up on that when NGE hit, and it's water under the bridge. So what were my space expectations? As an avid BioWare and Star Wars fan, like thousands of others I have been diving every possible clue BioWare has revealed along the way. Prior to the "Space Combat" reveal they were unusually cagey answering if it existed in the game. The non-answers they gave for space combat were different than the usual non-answers. I interpreted this as they would probably do something different or something they were nervous about. I think many of us hangers on looking for any information also sensed it wouldn't be as grand in scope as we hoped. Did I expect an SWG JTL experience? Not at all. It seems, sadly, the joystick experience in PC gaming is dead and I did not expect BioWare to try to revive it. I did not, however, lower my expectations so low that "Space Combat" in SWTOR would wind up being a modern Rebel Assault. I enjoyed that way back in the 90's for what it was, when CD-ROMs were newish and it was one of the first games to really pack the graphics in that new medium. Did I expect BioWare to put a gussied up version in a AAA MMO in 2011? No. I really expected more.
Was that fair? I think so. If you look where BioWare resides, they are now in the EA stable. EA owns IP that includes things like Wing Commander. That game was not so much space sim as much as it was a cockpit space arcade kind of game. I was hoping they could indeed bring that forward in some way, if they were going to bring anything of that era of gaming forward. But I thought a true Space Combat game was probably too much to hope for. At the minimum I was hoping they could work the player ships similar to the multi-player ships in SWG JTL. That way we could invite friends along for a ride to the next planet of adventure, with no actual combat. A space bus if you will. I would have been happy with that. But alas, we can't do that either.
Per James Ohlen this week, it is an optional gameplay component. I am thankful that BioWare is not foisting such an obsolete experience on it's players. I'm sure there are lots of fanboiz who will say it's the second coming. But it's not. Dozens of games over the decades have offered the same exact game play. Nothing new here. The same I'm sure could be said about the ground game not being a new breakthrough. But I think the integral story experience, if they can make the BioWare RPG experience into an MMO...that is a breakthrough. I was just hoping they could do the same for space. If not at launch I would have even paid the expansion price for something with more free form flight into it. But instead we get no Millenium Falcon experience. No sitting in the cockpit watching the hyperspace lines streak past while enemy fighters are left behind. Sadly we get a browser game in our PC MMO. Maybe they can portion it off so it's accessible from mobile phones, that's where such a tunnel shooter would offer a challenge in 2011. But BioWare....I expected better.
Anyone that is not VERY skeptical is kidding themselves. Since the early MMOs (UO/EQ1/AC/DAoC/ even throw in FFXI) there has been only one major release that has met expectations. WoW. There are 6 other games Id consider to be 'big' releases in the range of SWTOR. Lotro and Eq2...both disappointments though both have done ok. VG, AoC, WAR, SWG...all failures. Yes, SWG was considered a failure before NGE came around. So odds really arent in Bioware's favor on this one.
What a joke! There is nothig about this vid to get excited about. Fortunatley the rest of the game looks somewhat better, lets hope we're not forced into takig part in that crap space game.
Honestly put together a synopsys about what SWG was about then compare it to what TOR is about and if you are being objective I hardly understand how you can justify that statement. Star Wars in my eyes is and has always been about the story, the epic quests that were set upon by the heroes of that galaxy, it was not about moisture farming until you cornered the market (even though that was an interesting mechanic). The plot line to Star Wars could well be the most well known "story" in movie history yet somehow you see it as they are going about this wrong?
It's plainly obvious you are not some kind of irrational naysayer but I think you atleast are underselling what Bioware is trying to accomplish. They have even stated this game will have more content than every Bioware game put together and I can think of more than one Bioware game I enjoyed for more than a year.
I understand perfectly what they are trying to accomplish and why. And as far as being representtive of the star wars MOVIE, i think it's valid. Unfortunately, the star wars MOVIE has room for maybe... 20 heroes, max. Which (probably not by accident) is pretty close to how many storyline options SWTOR is going to have (different story for each subclass or whatnote). ANd if this was a game designed for 20 people, then I would say "well done BioWare, you've picked the perfect approach!"
However, this game is designed for 10,000-50,000 (approx number of people per server) of protagonists. And the fact is, you can't have 50,000 Luke Skywalkers all with the same story (even if it has minor variations). So by extension, you cannot design a game the same way for 50,000 as you do for 20. You can make a game for 20 that represents just the MOVIE. When you make a game for 50,000, you have to represent more of the WORLD. And while people bring up boring things like moisture farming as examples of bad gameplay, there are plenty of more interesting gameplay possibilities in the star wars galaxy than farming. And not all of them have to do with shooting tie-fighters either.
Everquest 2 has more content than every bioware game put together. So do a few other MMOs. It's really not a huge claim when you switch over to the MMO genre. (EQ2 has over 5,000 pre-written quests). There are many MMOs that have used the story-driven approach to varied effect. And while some were totally awesome and managed to tell amazing stories, I think most long-time MMO gamers will tell you that the majority of meaningful time spent in an MMO over the years has not been spent doing the main story quests. Bioware is betting that all the other games just weren't good enough and that they can change things. They're not the first company to make this bet, but they are the best. Who knows, maybe they'll succeed. Just all evidence points otherwise.
I don't think its as easy as saying EQ2 has more content then every BioWare game put together, 5,000 prewritten quests doesn't prove much, as how many quests does KOTOR have? NWNs? The expansions? DA DLCs? How could you even begin to determine that number rationally? Not to mention, each BioWare game has split content, per class, sometimes per race, and per choice made. This isn't just a topical view of the games in question and saying "yeah this game looks like it has more content". In the very least I'd expect that you've played every BioWare game and had your completion time written down. Perhaps then we'd have at least a minimal starting point.
No MMO to date has done the story driven approach in this way before, to this extent. It just hasn't been done. I've never seen combat that looks like the combat we're seeing here, not in SWG, not even with MxO and their cinematic locked in combat. Neither the block parry combat that was so jerky in PoTBS.
But if content is king, even if you remove the plus for personal story and stick with just 200 hours of personal story gameplay, on top of that you still have all of the group quests, all the PvP, all of the other mini games or what have you, and fighting for planetary control. Thats not even getting into the crafting, creating any alts, or any of the other items BioWare is known for adding (you know, those little details like pod racing and pazaak, even "gladiator" arenas).
With quite a few months away from even a solid release date, I think they've already blown a great number of current MMOs out of the water, content wise, and all the features haven't even been released yet.
True the game is more than just a few months away from any kind of release, but claiming that its blown a great number of other MMO's out of the water is... hilarious.. we dont know if the game is even going to be a success yet, and already your saying its done all these things, so far its not even done as much as Cryptic has done with STO.. until the game is released, and people actually start playing, its just guesswork, it might be amazing, it might get 12 million subscribers, or it might only get a few thousand, and fold after an abysmal performance.. or even somewhere in between, but there is one thing for sure, if the game is 'over hyped' then there will be a lot of disapointed people even if the game isnt that bad.
I can concede to the point that we haven't "seen" the extent of content that they've claimed to be in game, but I can contest to the fact that they have said they will supply this amount of content. I guess it comes down to what you'd rather believe.. and hesitation is understandable in todays MMO market. I wouldn't believe though, that BioWare would skimp on one of their main selling points, which is the game being content heavy.
I think Hype and Expectation are two very different things, and sometimes people are getting them confused. On top of that there are realistic expectations and then unrealistic expectations, the regular hype, and unfounded hype. A flight simulator was an unrealistic expectation for this kind of game, but that didn't stop people from wanting it. Saying that TOR will be the largest content MMO to date, unfounded hype. Stating that 200+ hours of gameplay per class story is hype-able based on actual developers comments -- not so much.
In the same avenue, the extra classes in WAR along with the added PvP capitals, that was founded hype the developers spoke about early on too, that was cut from the game. I would go out on a ledge and say the development cycle is very different between these two games, but I can't chastise anyone for curbing their belief in a developer. If anything though a wait and see attitude is okay, but blatant disregard for the intended accomplishments, whether seen at this time, or unseen is in the very least a cause of ridicule.
200 hours of story for each class... that is a "small story" in your eyes? quickly done? And that is just the story, not all of the other things you can do in order to level and interact with other people. If that's a month of gameplay in your mind, that really says a lot about the state of your mind.
It's my expectation based on having a lot of experience with many MMOs, single-player RPGs and BioWare spefically. The truth of it we'll see when it comes out.
I also am talking about what I've seen based on info released. "All the other stuff you can do to interact with other people" is something that there is virtually no information on. If tomorrow BioWare releases new information on "massive smuggling, bounty-hunting and non-combat mechanics", then I'll revise my expectations. Until then, my assumption is that you're going from storyline quest to storyline quest, with a few side-quests, some occassional critters to kill and frequent visits to in-game market.
If you have experience with BW games, then you know you get 50+ hrs of gaming out of each one.
I've personally talked to about 20 people that bought, played and absolutely LOVED Mass Effect 2. All of them got approx 25-30 hours of gameplay out it. None of them took longer than a week to get through it. A few did it in 1 day, I personally took 3 days.
So "10 hours of gametime as per bioware" is about 1 day of playtime for me. So...200 hours = 20 days. Let's assume I play TOR half as much as I did ME. So 40 days. Just over a month. This assuming someone even does the majority of the content. I love to quest, so I'm usually at like 80%+ of content, but I've found in other MMOs that I'm in the minority and that the majority of players just blow through the content to high level and do **maybe** 40% of it. So 40% of those 40 days is under a month. So my original estimates of 1-2 months of content seem pretty reasonable.
I'm not taking into account that you can group in this game and do a lot of the content faster than you would do solo. I'm not taking into account "crap" content. And regardless of how amazing BioWare is, there will be bad or uninteresting quests.
But it's not even about those numbers. There could be 200 hours. Or 400 hours. Or 800. Pre-written quests are still the lesser part of what one does in an MMORPG. It doesn't matter how many hours there are. This part of the game is sold. I have no doubt it's brilliant. What I - and many others keep asking is - "what then?"
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
The problem here is that people "want" things. They want the game their way. Its not that a game should or should not have something in it. We all WANT some things. Now when we dont get it. We feel its our right to complain and show our own logic on the game should be made. Or what should be in it.
Well its not our game. We are not paying for the development and are not involved in the design. I do understand that in the end we, if we choose to will be paying for hte game. But the reality is that we will never get everything that we want. Or i guess for this thread what we "expect"
No matter what, you can't please everyone. Initially I would have said "if you touch a known IP.." but now I realize it doesn't matter.
If it's a known IP, there will always be those "Han Shot First"ers who see it how they see it. Lucas himself could write this game and there'd be loud complainers. People whine, it's a fact.
However, even games with no known IP (CoH, EQ, etc), people develop expectation in a vacuum and then are irked when these imaginary terms aren't met.
In the end, Bioware should pick it's vision, stay true to that vision, and make the game they want. Lots of people will buy and play it, some will complain, but cater to their target audience, their defined demographic, they'll be fine.
That was beautiful.
Yeah. Best thing so far about SW:TOR is that Lucas didn't write it and that Bioware is 'picking it's vision'. Never much liked His writing in Star Wars but this might actually work.
I am just looking forward to what BioWare has up its collective sleeves. As far as space combat goes, its nothing. Every single announcement is met by those who have this magical idea of what makes a perfect game, those that believe that they are better designers and developers than those actually getting paid to do these things (it might be true but I doubt it lol). Just look at the way the forums have exploded over omg Jedi Wizards. The sky is falling!!!! Look at what happened with the Racial/specie anouncements: OMG you can only be 1 human and 1 non human for each class omg BioWare doesn't know how to make a game, omg omg omg omg omg.
The only person anyone has to be disappointed with is themselves for getting so wrapped up in something that they have no control over, nor clue of what they are speaking. So many people across this and other forums will not be happy unless they remake swg.... SWG was a piece of shit when it launched, and as time went on, it became worse and worse. Sure we all had our good times, but very few seem to remember that for every one thing that was acceptable in swg there were a thousand things that completely sucked. From the Dev team at Verant to the powers that be at SOE and LA.
I am starting to believe that no matter what is announced by BioWare the most vocal of the community are gonna continue with their temper tantrums and whines and complaints and will not be happy until they can tear the game down as much as possible. I think its hilarious that this site's hype meter has dropped for TOR, seemingly daily since E3. Look at the rediculous comments in the game's hype!!
Zeppelin4 writes: Needs to be more like SWG and less like Wow.
testmyluck writes: Another dumbed down MMO that plays more like a co-op RPG. Just what everyone wanted! Oh wait, no.
Waizer writes: Without proper space combat how can this be considered a SW game?
MacLinux writes: Star wars without Stars (only a ridiculous railshooter) and without Wars (where's the PVP ?) Millions of dollars for this ? I'll stay away from this. MMO's world is pathetic. I'll play again KOTOR I, great solo game, and Eve online or something else.
Asuran21 writes: Not much into originality. Seems like a WoW in space with story. It gets a 4. Guild Wars 2 seems to have a lot of what SWTOR has and more.
And it goes on. It's hillarious how so many people have played the game and know everything there is to know about it lol. My ONLY hope for this game is that all these people that have nothing better to do than to bitch about every single announcement from bioware actually follow through with their hollow threats. The game's community will be far better the sooner y'all leave and let the adults talk about things. Thank you.
Comments
It's my expectation based on having a lot of experience with many MMOs, single-player RPGs and BioWare spefically. The truth of it we'll see when it comes out.
I also am talking about what I've seen based on info released. "All the other stuff you can do to interact with other people" is something that there is virtually no information on. If tomorrow BioWare releases new information on "massive smuggling, bounty-hunting and non-combat mechanics", then I'll revise my expectations. Until then, my assumption is that you're going from storyline quest to storyline quest, with a few side-quests, some occassional critters to kill and frequent visits to in-game market.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Honestly put together a synopsys about what SWG was about then compare it to what TOR is about and if you are being objective I hardly understand how you can justify that statement. Star Wars in my eyes is and has always been about the story, the epic quests that were set upon by the heroes of that galaxy, it was not about moisture farming until you cornered the market (even though that was an interesting mechanic). The plot line to Star Wars could well be the most well known "story" in movie history yet somehow you see it as they are going about this wrong?
It's plainly obvious you are not some kind of irrational naysayer but I think you atleast are underselling what Bioware is trying to accomplish. They have even stated this game will have more content than every Bioware game put together and I can think of more than one Bioware game I enjoyed for more than a year.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I think the article poster is a bit stupid..seriously why all people think that this is a bad thing?
You know..befor they told us that there will be space actions they never wanted this in the vanilla game. Now they have added a mini game and you all dont like this. You know..they can still change this with expansions? there will be definitley an expansion with a different space fighting system and so on. Just wait. The game is huge right now even when there is no space fight. This mini game is just an extra that they took to give you some other options than just running around and making quests or other things on the planets. Really...think about it befor you build up a stupid idea
....FoW...
My expectations for SWTOR had all pretty much been met up to the point of this Space Combat thing...Like some around here I did not expect Space at Launch, what I did expect was if in fact BioWare took on Space Combat...it would be amazing...I think as polished as this looks and all it's going to fall far short of amazing, and I think thats a shame actually...I hate to keep running this out, but I can't for the life of me understand why this Dev Team would attempt any Space Combat that could potentially fall short of JTL...And I just don't see how Space Combat on a rail...as cool, shiny and colorful as it may look...can compare to a 360 degree Space Sim Developed in 2010...I think BioWare is REALLY falling short here and it's a shame. I would have been more than happy to wait until 2012 or 2013 to see an incredible Space Sim in SWTOR...And maybe that's what will happen in the end...Because this thing looks like it was thrown together to appease the massive cry for Space Combat...It just looks like a temporary fix...Everything about this Game should be Epic including Space...Save the mini games for Pazaak...
Good article!, I feel the same with the recent announcement and blogged my rage a few days back here: http://cerealgamers.blogspot.com/2010/08/biowares-inability-to-understand-mmorpg.html
I really don't understand why themepark and sandbox need to be mutually exclusive.
I understand perfectly what they are trying to accomplish and why. And as far as being representtive of the star wars MOVIE, i think it's valid. Unfortunately, the star wars MOVIE has room for maybe... 20 heroes, max. Which (probably not by accident) is pretty close to how many storyline options SWTOR is going to have (different story for each subclass or whatnote). ANd if this was a game designed for 20 people, then I would say "well done BioWare, you've picked the perfect approach!"
However, this game is designed for 10,000-50,000 (approx number of people per server) of protagonists. And the fact is, you can't have 50,000 Luke Skywalkers all with the same story (even if it has minor variations). So by extension, you cannot design a game the same way for 50,000 as you do for 20. You can make a game for 20 that represents just the MOVIE. When you make a game for 50,000, you have to represent more of the WORLD. And while people bring up boring things like moisture farming as examples of bad gameplay, there are plenty of more interesting gameplay possibilities in the star wars galaxy than farming. And not all of them have to do with shooting tie-fighters either.
Everquest 2 has more content than every bioware game put together. So do a few other MMOs. It's really not a huge claim when you switch over to the MMO genre. (EQ2 has over 5,000 pre-written quests). There are many MMOs that have used the story-driven approach to varied effect. And while some were totally awesome and managed to tell amazing stories, I think most long-time MMO gamers will tell you that the majority of meaningful time spent in an MMO over the years has not been spent doing the main story quests. Bioware is betting that all the other games just weren't good enough and that they can change things. They're not the first company to make this bet, but they are the best. Who knows, maybe they'll succeed. Just all evidence points otherwise.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I expect a WoW like Star Wars themed game with voice over story. I expect laser blasters and star wars sounds. For these alone I ll "try" it out. But unfortunately wow in space doesn't interest me when I can play WoW. I say hold judgement try it, but if there isnt enough to hold the community other than "story" people will go back to wow.
1) I seriously doubt there will be 200 hours for each class. Classes are probably gonna have their own quest line each, but not everything will be different (i say only a small part), thus probably a few dozen hours will be actually "class specific".
2) Even considering the 200 hours per class as true, what part of those 200 hours will be actual content, and how many "kill stormtroopers and collect 200 shoulderpads" quests will there be...?
Have you not read or heard anything about the game? Each class has a completely different storyline, which gets compounded by your alignment, companion choice, advanced class choice etc. 200 hours of personal story is the low estimate the quote was 200+ hours of story. The shared quests are called group quests which are part of the world quests. You CAN share personal story quests with groups too though.
out of those 200 hours, most of it will take place in the open world. How many kill 10 rats quests will there be? Theres no telling, but there are plenty more quests then just collect X amount, just watch some of the class videos.
I don't think its as easy as saying EQ2 has more content then every BioWare game put together, 5,000 prewritten quests doesn't prove much, as how many quests does KOTOR have? NWNs? The expansions? DA DLCs? How could you even begin to determine that number rationally? Not to mention, each BioWare game has split content, per class, sometimes per race, and per choice made. This isn't just a topical view of the games in question and saying "yeah this game looks like it has more content". In the very least I'd expect that you've played every BioWare game and had your completion time written down. Perhaps then we'd have at least a minimal starting point.
No MMO to date has done the story driven approach in this way before, to this extent. It just hasn't been done. I've never seen combat that looks like the combat we're seeing here, not in SWG, not even with MxO and their cinematic locked in combat. Neither the block parry combat that was so jerky in PoTBS.
But if content is king, even if you remove the plus for personal story and stick with just 200 hours of personal story gameplay, on top of that you still have all of the group quests, all the PvP, all of the other mini games or what have you, and fighting for planetary control. Thats not even getting into the crafting, creating any alts, or any of the other items BioWare is known for adding (you know, those little details like pod racing and pazaak, even "gladiator" arenas).
With quite a few months away from even a solid release date, I think they've already blown a great number of current MMOs out of the water, content wise, and all the features haven't even been released yet.
I think SW:TOR will have loads of content and great music but i'm having my doubts about the gameplay. Possibly more of the same (old) classic MMO game mechanics. If this game shows any hint of failing then the MMORPG genre is thruly dead (also thanks to the F2P model). Then Co-op shooter games are the only future of multiplayergames, since they are popping up like mushrooms left right and center anyway.
To the author,
If you were expecting the game not to have space at launch, but be a full fledged expansion, I really wish you had read about Gordon Walton's panel at GDC in March. Gordon was one of the principles behind the JTL expansion in SWG and is also working on TOR. He called JTL a big mistake that actually hurt retention. Sure, the vocal minority on msg boards liked it, but the casual mmorpg player just wanted the exisitng content to be fixed/expanded on. They didn't want a space flight shooter that really didn't fit their skill sets anyway.
If the guy behind that expansion is now working on this game, and thought that expansion was a big mistake for SWG, why would he repeat such an egregious error? No, from the moment I read that article in March, I knew that space would not be an expansion, it would be in the game at launch, or never at all.
XAVIER DRAGEN :: RECRUITING OFFICER :: ZERO³ :: STAR WARS: THE OLD REPUBLIC
No offense to anyone here but...My only expectation is that some people will complain no matter what.
expected there to be some form of "decent" space combat... not at release though if I'm honest. A msg saying that they are planning space combat but not for release, perhaps for the first expansion would have met my expectations.
As it is with space combat on rails there is pretty much 0 chance now of seeing any form of decent space combat as we saw in swg as I can't see bioware wasting money they invested in the current form of space combat and admitting they made a mistake.
And to all those moaning at people for complaining about a feature not being in the game, wtf is your problem? People are all expected to like the same thing and expect the same things as you from a game? People like different things and people expect different things from a game. It just so happens the people complaining about space combat really wanted space combat in this game simular to what swg offered. Hardly a big ask from a game with a big budget and released 7-8 years after SWG.
True the game is more than just a few months away from any kind of release, but claiming that its blown a great number of other MMO's out of the water is... hilarious.. we dont know if the game is even going to be a success yet, and already your saying its done all these things, so far its not even done as much as Cryptic has done with STO.. until the game is released, and people actually start playing, its just guesswork, it might be amazing, it might get 12 million subscribers, or it might only get a few thousand, and fold after an abysmal performance.. or even somewhere in between, but there is one thing for sure, if the game is 'over hyped' then there will be a lot of disapointed people even if the game isnt that bad.
If you have experience with BW games, then you know you get 50+ hrs of gaming out of each one. This game is supposed to have more content then all other BW games combined.....so say 50 hrs for each class(realistic....although I suppose there could be 200 hrs each) and you are talking 400 hrs of storyline gameplay alone.
Like I said in prior post...well worth the box cost.
If by chance there really is 200 hrs per class, so 1600 total, it will take a pre-order to make sure you have a copy of the game....as it will be flying off shelves. Most folks appreciate value for their dollar.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
My expectations for SWTOR have been greatly lowered with the "Space Combat" reveal. I too in full disclosure was a SWG day one vet. However, I gave up on that when NGE hit, and it's water under the bridge. So what were my space expectations? As an avid BioWare and Star Wars fan, like thousands of others I have been diving every possible clue BioWare has revealed along the way. Prior to the "Space Combat" reveal they were unusually cagey answering if it existed in the game. The non-answers they gave for space combat were different than the usual non-answers. I interpreted this as they would probably do something different or something they were nervous about. I think many of us hangers on looking for any information also sensed it wouldn't be as grand in scope as we hoped. Did I expect an SWG JTL experience? Not at all. It seems, sadly, the joystick experience in PC gaming is dead and I did not expect BioWare to try to revive it. I did not, however, lower my expectations so low that "Space Combat" in SWTOR would wind up being a modern Rebel Assault. I enjoyed that way back in the 90's for what it was, when CD-ROMs were newish and it was one of the first games to really pack the graphics in that new medium. Did I expect BioWare to put a gussied up version in a AAA MMO in 2011? No. I really expected more.
Was that fair? I think so. If you look where BioWare resides, they are now in the EA stable. EA owns IP that includes things like Wing Commander. That game was not so much space sim as much as it was a cockpit space arcade kind of game. I was hoping they could indeed bring that forward in some way, if they were going to bring anything of that era of gaming forward. But I thought a true Space Combat game was probably too much to hope for. At the minimum I was hoping they could work the player ships similar to the multi-player ships in SWG JTL. That way we could invite friends along for a ride to the next planet of adventure, with no actual combat. A space bus if you will. I would have been happy with that. But alas, we can't do that either.
Per James Ohlen this week, it is an optional gameplay component. I am thankful that BioWare is not foisting such an obsolete experience on it's players. I'm sure there are lots of fanboiz who will say it's the second coming. But it's not. Dozens of games over the decades have offered the same exact game play. Nothing new here. The same I'm sure could be said about the ground game not being a new breakthrough. But I think the integral story experience, if they can make the BioWare RPG experience into an MMO...that is a breakthrough. I was just hoping they could do the same for space. If not at launch I would have even paid the expansion price for something with more free form flight into it. But instead we get no Millenium Falcon experience. No sitting in the cockpit watching the hyperspace lines streak past while enemy fighters are left behind. Sadly we get a browser game in our PC MMO. Maybe they can portion it off so it's accessible from mobile phones, that's where such a tunnel shooter would offer a challenge in 2011. But BioWare....I expected better.
What a joke! There is nothig about this vid to get excited about. Fortunatley the rest of the game looks somewhat better, lets hope we're not forced into takig part in that crap space game.
I can concede to the point that we haven't "seen" the extent of content that they've claimed to be in game, but I can contest to the fact that they have said they will supply this amount of content. I guess it comes down to what you'd rather believe.. and hesitation is understandable in todays MMO market. I wouldn't believe though, that BioWare would skimp on one of their main selling points, which is the game being content heavy.
I think Hype and Expectation are two very different things, and sometimes people are getting them confused. On top of that there are realistic expectations and then unrealistic expectations, the regular hype, and unfounded hype. A flight simulator was an unrealistic expectation for this kind of game, but that didn't stop people from wanting it. Saying that TOR will be the largest content MMO to date, unfounded hype. Stating that 200+ hours of gameplay per class story is hype-able based on actual developers comments -- not so much.
In the same avenue, the extra classes in WAR along with the added PvP capitals, that was founded hype the developers spoke about early on too, that was cut from the game. I would go out on a ledge and say the development cycle is very different between these two games, but I can't chastise anyone for curbing their belief in a developer. If anything though a wait and see attitude is okay, but blatant disregard for the intended accomplishments, whether seen at this time, or unseen is in the very least a cause of ridicule.
I've personally talked to about 20 people that bought, played and absolutely LOVED Mass Effect 2. All of them got approx 25-30 hours of gameplay out it. None of them took longer than a week to get through it. A few did it in 1 day, I personally took 3 days.
So "10 hours of gametime as per bioware" is about 1 day of playtime for me. So...200 hours = 20 days. Let's assume I play TOR half as much as I did ME. So 40 days. Just over a month. This assuming someone even does the majority of the content. I love to quest, so I'm usually at like 80%+ of content, but I've found in other MMOs that I'm in the minority and that the majority of players just blow through the content to high level and do **maybe** 40% of it. So 40% of those 40 days is under a month. So my original estimates of 1-2 months of content seem pretty reasonable.
I'm not taking into account that you can group in this game and do a lot of the content faster than you would do solo. I'm not taking into account "crap" content. And regardless of how amazing BioWare is, there will be bad or uninteresting quests.
But it's not even about those numbers. There could be 200 hours. Or 400 hours. Or 800. Pre-written quests are still the lesser part of what one does in an MMORPG. It doesn't matter how many hours there are. This part of the game is sold. I have no doubt it's brilliant. What I - and many others keep asking is - "what then?"
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
World of Warcraft does just fine without space combat, so will SW:TOR.
The problem here is that people "want" things. They want the game their way. Its not that a game should or should not have something in it. We all WANT some things. Now when we dont get it. We feel its our right to complain and show our own logic on the game should be made. Or what should be in it.
Well its not our game. We are not paying for the development and are not involved in the design. I do understand that in the end we, if we choose to will be paying for hte game. But the reality is that we will never get everything that we want. Or i guess for this thread what we "expect"
Yeah. Best thing so far about SW:TOR is that Lucas didn't write it and that Bioware is 'picking it's vision'. Never much liked His writing in Star Wars but this might actually work.
I am just looking forward to what BioWare has up its collective sleeves. As far as space combat goes, its nothing. Every single announcement is met by those who have this magical idea of what makes a perfect game, those that believe that they are better designers and developers than those actually getting paid to do these things (it might be true but I doubt it lol). Just look at the way the forums have exploded over omg Jedi Wizards. The sky is falling!!!! Look at what happened with the Racial/specie anouncements: OMG you can only be 1 human and 1 non human for each class omg BioWare doesn't know how to make a game, omg omg omg omg omg.
The only person anyone has to be disappointed with is themselves for getting so wrapped up in something that they have no control over, nor clue of what they are speaking. So many people across this and other forums will not be happy unless they remake swg.... SWG was a piece of shit when it launched, and as time went on, it became worse and worse. Sure we all had our good times, but very few seem to remember that for every one thing that was acceptable in swg there were a thousand things that completely sucked. From the Dev team at Verant to the powers that be at SOE and LA.
I am starting to believe that no matter what is announced by BioWare the most vocal of the community are gonna continue with their temper tantrums and whines and complaints and will not be happy until they can tear the game down as much as possible. I think its hilarious that this site's hype meter has dropped for TOR, seemingly daily since E3. Look at the rediculous comments in the game's hype!!
Zeppelin4 writes: Needs to be more like SWG and less like Wow.
testmyluck writes: Another dumbed down MMO that plays more like a co-op RPG. Just what everyone wanted! Oh wait, no.
Waizer writes: Without proper space combat how can this be considered a SW game?
MacLinux writes: Star wars without Stars (only a ridiculous railshooter) and without Wars (where's the PVP ?) Millions of dollars for this ? I'll stay away from this. MMO's world is pathetic. I'll play again KOTOR I, great solo game, and Eve online or something else.
Asuran21 writes: Not much into originality. Seems like a WoW in space with story. It gets a 4. Guild Wars 2 seems to have a lot of what SWTOR has and more.
And it goes on. It's hillarious how so many people have played the game and know everything there is to know about it lol. My ONLY hope for this game is that all these people that have nothing better to do than to bitch about every single announcement from bioware actually follow through with their hollow threats. The game's community will be far better the sooner y'all leave and let the adults talk about things. Thank you.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012