Unfortunately, for those of those who enjoy playing healers (my mains are a warden in EQ2, a mini in LotRO, a priest in WoW, and a cleric in Aion...see a pattern?), we're simply out of luck.
I second this. I dont much enjoy playing DPS characters or hybrid melee healer characters (aka as Paladins) so I play either healers or CC (or mix of both) in MMORPG but it seems my options will not be so great in GW 2.
Unfortunately, for those of those who enjoy playing healers (my mains are a warden in EQ2, a mini in LotRO, a priest in WoW, and a cleric in Aion...see a pattern?), we're simply out of luck.
I second this. I dont much enjoy playing DPS characters or hybrid melee healer characters (aka as Paladins) so I play either healers or CC (or mix of both) in MMORPG but it seems my options will not be so great in GW 2.
There are still 4 classes to be unveiled ... who knows what's in it for you.
What I dont get is - why is everyone asking for someone else to heal them - the whole point of this "no dedicated healer" idea is to make yourself self-sustainable. If you want to just dps through the fight and dont look at your health try some other game. Why would some ranger or necro or any other class use just healing skills while others kill stuff and ignore their health?
What I dont get is - why is everyone asking for someone else to heal them - the whole point of this "no dedicated healer" idea is to make yourself self-sustainable. If you want to just dps through the fight and dont look at your health try some other game. Why would some ranger or necro or any other class use just healing skills while others kill stuff and ignore their health?
thank god guild wars is just an online rpg and not an mmo and doesnt need trinity! lobby that lets you group with 3ish people and go into an instance and do ur thing hehe, def not an mmo so def no need for hard trinity.
No "dedicated healer class" does NOT mean you can't have a dedicated healing templeted character.
It does NOT mean everyone needs to heal others. It just means there is more freedom to stray away from the tired lame format that plagues most MMO's today.
You do know that you only will have one dedicated slot and possibly 3 more? That doesn't sound enough to use a single character as a healer. You will have 5 times 2 weapon skills to compare with.
There will be no tanks either so you better keep your eyes out in combat both on your allies and your enemies.
I like it, I think it will also make PvP a lot more fun and PvP and PvE closer to eachother.
Ok no tanks and no healers. What about CC?
If no CC either then this game sounds awfully like an FPS in the regard that DPS is all that matters. Boring if you ask me.
I think the point of having no tanks and no healers, is that Arena-net identify some boring gameplay in most mainstream mmos, with thesse concepts, that Arena-net really think that they can avoid. And for my part , knowing GW1 and following their line of thought i think they are right and can do it.
boring gameplay is healers only looking at healthbars, and tanks standing still holding aggro and everyone watching a threat-meter for a whole fight!
Arena-net does give CC to warriors, support instead of dedicated healing. And we just have a more advanced case of the holy trinity.
Maybe you are right that i will be more like FPs gameplay, but looking at the videos so far i don't find it boring at all.
What I dont get is - why is everyone asking for someone else to heal them - the whole point of this "no dedicated healer" idea is to make yourself self-sustainable. If you want to just dps through the fight and dont look at your health try some other game. Why would some ranger or necro or any other class use just healing skills while others kill stuff and ignore their health?
Trinity stigma maybe?
People are just spoiled.
Some are used to only look at bars and think that's dinamic, others just want to be sure they have no responsability in any way during PVE.
Somehow people fail to understand that a game can be more fun when everyone needs to actually think about what they're doing instead of mindlessly doing a chore...yes a chore, that's what the trinity tells people to do, a chore.
In a non-trinity setup all fights will be more dinamic, more frantic and obviosuly player skill and awareness needs to be much higher...there's a need for more skilled players then in trinity games since you're asked to be part of a dinamic team instead of doing you're one or two chores.
I only have one friend that has a problem with GW2 and he's the "omgnukenuke" kind of player, he never played anything else except mage classes and he hates the non-trinity setup because and i quote "wtf, then i have to check on the group?..."
Originally posted by Evile No "dedicated healer class" does NOT mean you can't have a dedicated healing templeted character. It does NOT mean everyone needs to heal others. It just means there is more freedom to stray away from the tired lame format that plagues most MMO's today.
Actually, it does mean that. They have said that it means exactly that, almost verbatim. There is good reason to not want healing templates for characters. People should want to, and should be able to, do more in any given combat situation, and this will give everyone more versatility. I cannot count the times I have been relegated to healing when I wanted to work on a damage build or character because I had a healing character and others did not.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Aside from ANet coming across as being extremely pretencious with all their "yeah this has been totally stupid in MMOs until now"... "we're gonna make it better for everyone with our large brains" "dungeons are super boring so we decided to finally make them fun" "healers are super lame and boring, but we totally had the best and most originaletists idea ever!!!! no healers in RPG!!! GENIOUZ!"
"healers are super lame and boring"
They didn't say this, the said they wanted to give the option to healers to also do damage when they are soloing.
first of all, thanks mate, for responding in a very mature way.... It was unexpected and very welcomed
I distinctly remember them saying something along the lines of "waiting around for a healer to do dungeons is boring" (read: WHERE is my instant gratification you silly game!! how dare you require effort!) and "it's just heal heal heal heal, keep the green bars full, whack a mole... and it's not enjoyable"
obviously you could say that it is his opinion.... sure... only those guys in the video are PR people... they don't HAVE their own opinions.... or souls for that matter :P
I would have just let it slide though as a "wording error" if you will... only they did the same thing with dungeons at gamescom... "dungeons are long and boring so we're getting rid of everything boring" (also incidentially everything that makes them a dungeon...)
I'm gonna see if I can't find that video or chat thingy about the "healers are boring" thing
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H> An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots! www.stealth-industries.de
For me, this will just be an advancement of my existing play-style.
In most MMOs, I play rather conservatively also trying to have heals on hand because--lets face it--you never know the quality of those healers in your PUG. But when paired with a person I know was good at healing, or the occasions were the mission you're doing seems to have an excess of healers in the outpost and you end up with one more healer than normal--I let loose and go all out.
For example, in GW, my main is an Ele and I typically play air with lots of long range skills, some blinds, and good self-heal... but when I'm with a greater than average healing set-up, I could go crazy and sometimes play a conjure mele-ele that could (formerly--it got nerfed a while back) deal way more damage than any other ele build; and I could only do it because I had good support.
For GW2, I think the same will hold true for me. I will probably play in groups with a conservative build, but then there will be those time where someone has willingly spec'd himself as a primary support and I will be able to break out that one build that would otherwise have got my team killed by my reckless abandon.
So for me, it won't be much change from the usual, but when I finally do group with a good support player, it will be an 'Ooh, Yay!' moment as I break out an evil grin, as opposed to every other game where encountering a support player is the usual 'oh, my group requires one or two of those for this mission'.
I distinctly remember them saying something along the lines of "waiting around for a healer to do dungeons is boring" (read: WHERE is my instant gratification you silly game!! how dare you require effort!) and "it's just heal heal heal heal, keep the green bars full, whack a mole... and it's not enjoyable"
Seriously, this sarcastic remark is totally out of place. How can you call it effort. Searching for players to do a dungeon for half an hour because you do not have the required party has nothing to do with effort. This is just bad game design. Why? Because you could have had a group ready, yet you needed specific classes and specs to do it so you denied those willing to join without the required class/spec. A dungeon should be done when you have 5 friends willing to do it. It is retarded that out of those 5 players nobody had a healer class and therefore the group of friends has to kick 1 one of them to invite some random healer. THAT is the problem. This has nothing to do with GIEF ME FUN NOW!. It is a serious problem that certain dungeons can not be played, not because there is too less people willing to do so, but because on class is specifically required to play it and it is not always available.
in AoC there are (well... "were" actually, anyway) 3 heals, 2 hots and 1 min cooldown big heal (which just heals a dent in tanks hp btw). That game was the first game i had fun while playing a healer. They could have taken the 2 hots and gave that to everyone as self only spells; my bearshaman was not about just healing, infact healing was a small part; keeping up two hots doh!
very bold move by Anet and i hope they have managed to pull it off.
the problem started with the nurfing of healers,healers used to be kick ass in eq,wore plate and were min tanks.then in wow,they started the nurfing of healers by giving cloth to them and then making paladins useless.why ,cause the tanks were becoming useless.
What I dont get is - why is everyone asking for someone else to heal them - the whole point of this "no dedicated healer" idea is to make yourself self-sustainable. If you want to just dps through the fight and dont look at your health try some other game. Why would some ranger or necro or any other class use just healing skills while others kill stuff and ignore their health?
Being self-suistanable kinda defeats the purpose of forming groups no?
What I dont get is - why is everyone asking for someone else to heal them - the whole point of this "no dedicated healer" idea is to make yourself self-sustainable. If you want to just dps through the fight and dont look at your health try some other game. Why would some ranger or necro or any other class use just healing skills while others kill stuff and ignore their health?
Being self-suistanable kinda defeats the purpose of forming groups no?
No just no. Being self sustainable means just that being self sustainable. There are plenty of other roles within a group outside from someone tanks some heals and the rest dps. Cross class combo's and group tactics is what makes a group superior to the sum of it's parts.
Besides there's no choice whether you will or won't group in gw2 everyone is forced to group unless they want to participate in another which will probably also have people doing it.
Think of real life war for the majority of the time you don't have medics constantly following you around, every soldier is given basic training in First aid and is told to work as a team while also taking responsibility for their own lives as well as those around. Why do they travel as groups? It's because it's the most efficient way to complete objectives and they don't have a choice.
Why are people so against having to be aware of their own surroundings are they lazy do they need someone hold their hands and do most of the work for them.
Healing is the least dynamic kind of support there is. It is reactive instead of proactive. Healing is for when you are already losing. In Guild Wars 2 we prefer that you support your allies before they take a beating. Sure, there are some healing spells in Guild Wars 2, but they make up a small portion of the support lines that are spread throughout the professions. Other kinds of support include buffs, active defense, and cross-profession combinations.
so basicly if you take the time spend spaming " looking for healer" away. And improve support gameplay , to not be about looking at healthbars. And that at the same time provide for a lot more interesting gameplay for everybody ! What s not to like
I never liked having to rely on monk for healing and expecially when you knew a player was needed not a NPC monk. I hated it when the monk you got was a jerk but he/she was the only monk there...
I never liked having to rely on monk for healing and expecially when you knew a player was needed not a NPC monk. I hated it when the monk you got was a jerk but he/she was the only monk there...
No "dedicated healer class" does NOT mean you can't have a dedicated healing templeted character.
It does NOT mean everyone needs to heal others. It just means there is more freedom to stray away from the tired lame format that plagues most MMO's today.
You do know that you only will have one dedicated slot and possibly 3 more? That doesn't sound enough to use a single character as a healer. You will have 5 times 2 weapon skills to compare with.
There will be no tanks either so you better keep your eyes out in combat both on your allies and your enemies.
I like it, I think it will also make PvP a lot more fun and PvP and PvE closer to eachother.
Hmm you're forgetting the traits which haven't been revealed in depth yet but we know some info on them.. Traits are basically the second layer of character customization, on top of the skills. If I remember correctly from a interview somewhere it's been said that an elementalist, for example, can have a trait that heals all his allies when he casts a spel from a certain shool or somesuch.
So traits will be quite similar to WAR's tactics but quite a bit more in depth. There will be separtae trait slots for different weapons (like Swordmaster elite trait which makes your swords add bleeding damage) and various class abilities (like sepaate trait slots for different elemntal attunements) You will be able to design several sets of traits and switch them when out of combat to assume a particular "role". Thus an elementalist could have "nuker" and "healer" trait sets and switch between them as the situation demands. It seems that acquiring traits will mostly take over the acquiring skills dynamic in GW1... You'll be scouring the world for new and exciting traits, rather than skills I guess.
Comments
I second this. I dont much enjoy playing DPS characters or hybrid melee healer characters (aka as Paladins) so I play either healers or CC (or mix of both) in MMORPG but it seems my options will not be so great in GW 2.
My gaming blog
There are still 4 classes to be unveiled ... who knows what's in it for you.
if you are right then Arena-net have failed in what they are trying to do.
One of the main goals is to avoid the downtime LFG -looking for a healer. So what you describe is exsactly what they are trying to avoid.
To me it sounds like they are getting there! I recommend reading the articles about healing on GW2 website.
What I dont get is - why is everyone asking for someone else to heal them - the whole point of this "no dedicated healer" idea is to make yourself self-sustainable. If you want to just dps through the fight and dont look at your health try some other game. Why would some ranger or necro or any other class use just healing skills while others kill stuff and ignore their health?
Trinity stigma maybe?
thank god guild wars is just an online rpg and not an mmo and doesnt need trinity! lobby that lets you group with 3ish people and go into an instance and do ur thing hehe, def not an mmo so def no need for hard trinity.
I think the point of having no tanks and no healers, is that Arena-net identify some boring gameplay in most mainstream mmos, with thesse concepts, that Arena-net really think that they can avoid. And for my part , knowing GW1 and following their line of thought i think they are right and can do it.
boring gameplay is healers only looking at healthbars, and tanks standing still holding aggro and everyone watching a threat-meter for a whole fight!
Arena-net does give CC to warriors, support instead of dedicated healing. And we just have a more advanced case of the holy trinity.
Maybe you are right that i will be more like FPs gameplay, but looking at the videos so far i don't find it boring at all.
People are just spoiled.
Some are used to only look at bars and think that's dinamic, others just want to be sure they have no responsability in any way during PVE.
Somehow people fail to understand that a game can be more fun when everyone needs to actually think about what they're doing instead of mindlessly doing a chore...yes a chore, that's what the trinity tells people to do, a chore.
In a non-trinity setup all fights will be more dinamic, more frantic and obviosuly player skill and awareness needs to be much higher...there's a need for more skilled players then in trinity games since you're asked to be part of a dinamic team instead of doing you're one or two chores.
I only have one friend that has a problem with GW2 and he's the "omgnukenuke" kind of player, he never played anything else except mage classes and he hates the non-trinity setup because and i quote "wtf, then i have to check on the group?..."
bah, threatmeters = hax and using them should = ban
healers should have to target people to find out their health! or the person asks for a heal obviously hehe
wow spoiled the whole genre allowing this easy mode chore crap to become the prevelant way of doing it
Actually, it does mean that. They have said that it means exactly that, almost verbatim. There is good reason to not want healing templates for characters. People should want to, and should be able to, do more in any given combat situation, and this will give everyone more versatility. I cannot count the times I have been relegated to healing when I wanted to work on a damage build or character because I had a healing character and others did not.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
first of all, thanks mate, for responding in a very mature way.... It was unexpected and very welcomed
I distinctly remember them saying something along the lines of "waiting around for a healer to do dungeons is boring" (read: WHERE is my instant gratification you silly game!! how dare you require effort!) and "it's just heal heal heal heal, keep the green bars full, whack a mole... and it's not enjoyable"
obviously you could say that it is his opinion.... sure... only those guys in the video are PR people... they don't HAVE their own opinions.... or souls for that matter :P
I would have just let it slide though as a "wording error" if you will... only they did the same thing with dungeons at gamescom... "dungeons are long and boring so we're getting rid of everything boring" (also incidentially everything that makes them a dungeon...)
I'm gonna see if I can't find that video or chat thingy about the "healers are boring" thing
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H>
An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots!
www.stealth-industries.de
For me, this will just be an advancement of my existing play-style.
In most MMOs, I play rather conservatively also trying to have heals on hand because--lets face it--you never know the quality of those healers in your PUG. But when paired with a person I know was good at healing, or the occasions were the mission you're doing seems to have an excess of healers in the outpost and you end up with one more healer than normal--I let loose and go all out.
For example, in GW, my main is an Ele and I typically play air with lots of long range skills, some blinds, and good self-heal... but when I'm with a greater than average healing set-up, I could go crazy and sometimes play a conjure mele-ele that could (formerly--it got nerfed a while back) deal way more damage than any other ele build; and I could only do it because I had good support.
For GW2, I think the same will hold true for me. I will probably play in groups with a conservative build, but then there will be those time where someone has willingly spec'd himself as a primary support and I will be able to break out that one build that would otherwise have got my team killed by my reckless abandon.
So for me, it won't be much change from the usual, but when I finally do group with a good support player, it will be an 'Ooh, Yay!' moment as I break out an evil grin, as opposed to every other game where encountering a support player is the usual 'oh, my group requires one or two of those for this mission'.
Please do, I'd love to see it. Post the link up if you manage to find it.
Seriously, this sarcastic remark is totally out of place. How can you call it effort. Searching for players to do a dungeon for half an hour because you do not have the required party has nothing to do with effort. This is just bad game design. Why? Because you could have had a group ready, yet you needed specific classes and specs to do it so you denied those willing to join without the required class/spec. A dungeon should be done when you have 5 friends willing to do it. It is retarded that out of those 5 players nobody had a healer class and therefore the group of friends has to kick 1 one of them to invite some random healer. THAT is the problem. This has nothing to do with GIEF ME FUN NOW!. It is a serious problem that certain dungeons can not be played, not because there is too less people willing to do so, but because on class is specifically required to play it and it is not always available.
in AoC there are (well... "were" actually, anyway) 3 heals, 2 hots and 1 min cooldown big heal (which just heals a dent in tanks hp btw). That game was the first game i had fun while playing a healer. They could have taken the 2 hots and gave that to everyone as self only spells; my bearshaman was not about just healing, infact healing was a small part; keeping up two hots doh!
very bold move by Anet and i hope they have managed to pull it off.
I need more vespene gas.
the problem started with the nurfing of healers,healers used to be kick ass in eq,wore plate and were min tanks.then in wow,they started the nurfing of healers by giving cloth to them and then making paladins useless.why ,cause the tanks were becoming useless.
"No dedicated healer means......." zerg, imho.
Being self-suistanable kinda defeats the purpose of forming groups no?
My gaming blog
No just no. Being self sustainable means just that being self sustainable. There are plenty of other roles within a group outside from someone tanks some heals and the rest dps. Cross class combo's and group tactics is what makes a group superior to the sum of it's parts.
Besides there's no choice whether you will or won't group in gw2 everyone is forced to group unless they want to participate in another which will probably also have people doing it.
Think of real life war for the majority of the time you don't have medics constantly following you around, every soldier is given basic training in First aid and is told to work as a team while also taking responsibility for their own lives as well as those around. Why do they travel as groups? It's because it's the most efficient way to complete objectives and they don't have a choice.
Why are people so against having to be aware of their own surroundings are they lazy do they need someone hold their hands and do most of the work for them.
zerg means (loosely) overwhelming the obstacle so that no skill is required to win.
How exactly does no dedicated healer mean zerg, especially when events start scaling to compensate for 'zerging'?
Furthermore we have games like Aion which have dedicated healer classes which exudes zerg mechanics...
Why do you think that when there is both support classes and cc + a healing skill with everybody!
Maybe we asume that posters know what Arenanet's take on this is , but reading this and other topics, it doesn't look like.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/ so if you want to know read this
Here is what arena-net says about healing
Healing is the least dynamic kind of support there is. It is reactive instead of proactive. Healing is for when you are already losing. In Guild Wars 2 we prefer that you support your allies before they take a beating. Sure, there are some healing spells in Guild Wars 2, but they make up a small portion of the support lines that are spread throughout the professions. Other kinds of support include buffs, active defense, and cross-profession combinations.
so basicly if you take the time spend spaming " looking for healer" away. And improve support gameplay , to not be about looking at healthbars. And that at the same time provide for a lot more interesting gameplay for everybody ! What s not to like
I never liked having to rely on monk for healing and expecially when you knew a player was needed not a NPC monk. I hated it when the monk you got was a jerk but he/she was the only monk there...
hehehe,hahahahaHAHAHAHA
laughing Hyena, get used to it -_-
+1
SexuaLobster's Grease Portal
Hmm you're forgetting the traits which haven't been revealed in depth yet but we know some info on them.. Traits are basically the second layer of character customization, on top of the skills. If I remember correctly from a interview somewhere it's been said that an elementalist, for example, can have a trait that heals all his allies when he casts a spel from a certain shool or somesuch.
So traits will be quite similar to WAR's tactics but quite a bit more in depth. There will be separtae trait slots for different weapons (like Swordmaster elite trait which makes your swords add bleeding damage) and various class abilities (like sepaate trait slots for different elemntal attunements) You will be able to design several sets of traits and switch them when out of combat to assume a particular "role". Thus an elementalist could have "nuker" and "healer" trait sets and switch between them as the situation demands. It seems that acquiring traits will mostly take over the acquiring skills dynamic in GW1... You'll be scouring the world for new and exciting traits, rather than skills I guess.