I think the players with much time will still get rewarded in some way with this system, just not in terms of physhical level.
The system makes it more possible to actually find someone to group with, as most players will have the same or very close physhical level, that is a good thing
And remeber folks, nothing of this is set in stone..
Calling this system a social service to help people manage gaming addictions is quite funny, really. It does not stop a person from "playing" it only stops them from one type of "advancement."
The only truth about this system is that an MMO development studio will, for the first time (that I'm aware of), know the exact timeframe that the first character CAN reach max level. No amount of multi-boxing or other measures will get the character to max level any faster. I see this as a control mechanism, nothing more.
Given that information, SE had better have their "end game" lined up properly, as they cannot use the excuse that they didn't expect players to hit max level so quickly.
As a casual player, I don't really mind the system - I'll never play enough in one week to even notice the restriction.
It might just be me, and only having skimmed through the meat of the article. But the fatigue system in place sounds an awful something like most MMO's ive played in the past have (Vanguard, EQ2, i believe even WoW has something similar? ONly played it briefly so correctm eon that).
In EQ2 the fatigue system basically gave the player double EXP, but the more they leveled they would eat away at how much vitality (as it was called in eq2), depending on how much EXP they've gained. When it hits 0 you no longer get double exp. Not sure why everyone is freaking out...
Its not 200% xp vs normal xp, its normal xp vs no xp, as in once you use up all the time for a certain class and physical level, you get NO xp. At least that is my understanding.
I dont like it, but ill probably only hit it during the weekends anyway so it wont be THAT big a deal for me, but I do understand why others hate the idea.
The main point is that it is highly increased XP and advancement over the alternative system of a simple X xp over Y time to Z level formula that all other MMO's use. It is just a higher payout that falls to nothing allowing them to control X xp over Y time to Z level while still letting casuals accomplish something.
EVERY MMO out there determines how you play and how long it takes do something. Would you rather play Lineage 2 style where 1 level can take weeks and casuals can make almost no progress per week, or a system that rewards the first 10-15 hours you play and lets you make progress at any level.
I guarantee you if it was a typical system half these people would bitch about the grind and time to level. People just complain in general.
OH great ... guess what ? I am one of the 6 hours a day people .. YES .. I do have that time open to me and YES ... I do Love to Game that much .. I still Mow the lawn every week, work Every day, and shop, do the laundry, cook the meals, and all that other stuff ...
SO I spend 9 hours a day at work .. nobody gives a rip .. I BUST My rump too .. Some days I spend close to 12 hours just working on chores around the house WHO GIVES A RIP ?
BUT WAIT a darn Minute mister .. IF I GAME 6 hours ? MAN, I am a sick MO FO who has nothing better to do with my time ? I have my hands slapped and the wind Kicked out of me with some GAME penalty ?
Why is it, that every time I order a games Special Edition box set ... I get screwed ? Warhammer I got the special edition ... ZONK .... Age of Conan I order Special Edition .. ZONK ... EQ2 I order special Edition .... ZONK ... Tabula Rasa ... and the list goes on, and on, and on ...
I think it could be me GUYS ? you should check with me a few months before you buy your game, to see if I have Pre-Ordered the special Edition of the game .. IF I HAVE .. you know that the game will be a FLOP ... I have the numbers to prove my success at this ...
I do not care if a game wants to REWARD off line players, with added EXP bonus, to catch up with Players (me) who do not LOG OFF as much as them ....
I DO CARE, if that same game has a PUNISHMENT FOR ME in place, that also PENALIZES ME for playing longer then,,, "the established Average",,, game session.
THIS IS JUST PLAIN WRONG ! ! ! ! .. and will not fly for long, with any of your Player base that you want to HOLD onto,, to play and PAY for your game.
I hope you guys making this game, do some very close looks at changing this system to a reward system, by giving off line bonus ONLY ... and TAKE DOWN that Horrible Penalty for Play system your TESTING Out on the Public ...
Pn2P ... GOOD WORK .. you now have earned your OWN designation in the game worlds ... YOU HAVE a ....... Penalty To Play ...... game .... Pn2P ....
I am going to give this game a try, as I am a fan of FF games ... THIS penalty to exp, Could have me running away, and I promise I will never look back ...
I was going to join open beta,
After learning about this Pn2P system, I will wait for the game to be released. I hope by then something Good will have happened, and I will have these sinking feelings about the game, proven wrong.
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
Sorry about not getting the paragraphs to show in my post up there ... seems like ONE space is not enough to show up .. I have to place Two SPACES between paragraphs to have it show up as one
Like this ... SIGH ...
As you can see it is my first post here ... Normally I just read them ... However on this Penalty system I feel the urge to Speak out...
I just say NO to a penalty system on Experiance.
I say YES to a Exp Gain system to HELP players keep up if they can not Play as long as others.
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
Its the same as rested xp, just psychologically people treat it like a punishment. In wow for instance, most do not play at full rested to maximize returns, and noone complains that they are getting 50% possible exp. Also, most of the play time is played at max level, where you gain ZERO xp. But we don't complain about that either. People gripe too much, instead of looking at the positives.
It's not the same as rested xp. Rested xp comes from player choice of whether it's better to sleep or keep playing 8 hours... And at NO time does the xp go below "normal" (50% of "rested" to be sure, but even at its "normal rate", advancement is more than acceptable). This design is NOT that. This design stops you from earning xp. Period. Stops advancement. There is no positive spin to put on that. It doesn't stop farming, it doesn't help keep people together, it doesn't do anything except irritate people and artificially cap the rate of advancement in the game (to help you keep PAYING longer, not PLAYING longer). The more time SE gets you to log off and NOT use their service is more money made by them (less bandwidth, processing power, etc). If they thought they could get away with it, they'd probably limit people to 1 hour of xp gain a month.
Originally posted by Firestem4 It might just be me, and only having skimmed through the meat of the article. But the fatigue system in place sounds an awful something like most MMO's ive played in the past have (Vanguard, EQ2, i believe even WoW has something similar? ONly played it briefly so correctm eon that). In EQ2 the fatigue system basically gave the player double EXP, but the more they leveled they would eat away at how much vitality (as it was called in eq2), depending on how much EXP they've gained. When it hits 0 you no longer get double exp. Not sure why everyone is freaking out...
Originally posted by Stormwind Sorry about not getting the paragraphs to show in my post up there ... seems like ONE space is not enough to show up .. I have to place Two SPACES between paragraphs to have it show up as one
Like this ... SIGH ...
As you can see it is my first post here ... Normally I just read them ... However on this Penalty system I feel the urge to Speak out...
I just say NO to a penalty system on Experiance.
I say YES to a Exp Gain system to HELP players keep up if they can not Play as long as others.
QTF. No "punishment systems", If they want to give 300-400-500% exp to people under a certain ratio that's fine... but I don't want to see exp rate EVER hit 0% thats absurd.
okay let's say you are now on your fatigue-status. You can not get more EXP for the next time till it is reset. well what could you do besides exping? missions, quests crafting etc. A Big Problem of FFXI still is the people just seem to want to get exp. if you want a mission done or so better hope you have friends to help you out or even a social ls. Having the opportunity to say: okay time for missions n shit you can easily get progress in the game world by not even exping. This is a hughe thing and i think it's positive. However for getting to highest level as fast as possible: it is bad yes. But think about what happened back in ffxi. When the Xbox360 players started there were a ton of Endgame people (sure it comes with the duration it has been out) and they ALL made a huge profit out of those new players. Even more back in time we have a hughe Price increase of certain items that some could not possibly get under 12 million Gil since the RMT (real money trader) had thier chars p to date with the best gear and could kill anything (except AV lol).
For Players in eorzea SE intents to make things smoother and not so unfair .(viewing from a casual player... if you can call a FFXI player this)
it is a step in a direction noone else went to. And it think it's gonna work.
again i appologise for not reading through the whole thread here and just the oOP and a few more.
But sounds to me like a great idea! as i am not a power player. I play the game rather than grind to level as fast as poss. This idea may take the edge of levelling and get players to concentrate on playing the game more...just like EQs hell levels used to make me forget about the exp bar
again i appologise for not reading through the whole thread here and just the oOP and a few more.
But sounds to me like a great idea! as i am not a power player. I play the game rather than grind to level as fast as poss. This idea may take the edge of levelling and get players to concentrate on playing the game more...just like EQs hell levels used to make me forget about the exp bar
Thats if i understand it all correctly!
I'm pretty casual as MMOs go (or at least, since I rarely spend more than 10-12 hours a week in MMOs I have been told such), but this is a bad idea for the following reasons:
Punishment systems, as indicated in various posts and the original article are negative rewards; these do not endear the game to people. It is possible to "repackage" something like this ala Blizzard so that the system still operates a certain way without appearing to be a punishment, but an eventual 0% XP bottom-out...for that matter, even the chance of it....raises many issues about my time's worth vs. the game's deserving such time.
As an example, like I said I am a casual MMOer (play more standard games these days than MMOs), but I will often play for brief one-day marathons; maybe 1-2 hours throughout the week, and then suddenly 12-14 hours on a Sunday. Will this system restrict me from playing one character for a 12-14 hour period once a week? If it does, it's flawed. I love alts, but not if I am forced to play them.
Some posters have mentioned that this will make it hard for a friend to level up if he comes in later on. This is half true; you could get him to level up and reach the same level as the current players, but it now requires that they slow down their play time, rather than him increasing his play time. It seems ridiculous.
I know much has been bandied about about the problem of MMO players addictively playing past a healthy level...but I think we as players should still have the right to make such decisions. Any arbitrary effort to control or manage player behavior is going to flop.
Sorry about not getting the paragraphs to show in my post up there ... seems like ONE space is not enough to show up .. I have to place Two SPACES between paragraphs to have it show up as one
Like this ... SIGH ...
As you can see it is my first post here ... Normally I just read them ... However on this Penalty system I feel the urge to Speak out...
I just say NO to a penalty system on Experiance.
I say YES to a Exp Gain system to HELP players keep up if they can not Play as long as others.
I would relax...I didn't get past the first sentence of either post.
again i appologise for not reading through the whole thread here and just the oOP and a few more.
But sounds to me like a great idea! as i am not a power player. I play the game rather than grind to level as fast as poss. This idea may take the edge of levelling and get players to concentrate on playing the game more...just like EQs hell levels used to make me forget about the exp bar
Thats if i understand it all correctly!
I'm pretty casual as MMOs go (or at least, since I rarely spend more than 10-12 hours a week in MMOs I have been told such), but this is a bad idea for the following reasons:
Punishment systems, as indicated in various posts and the original article are negative rewards; these do not endear the game to people. It is possible to "repackage" something like this ala Blizzard so that the system still operates a certain way without appearing to be a punishment, but an eventual 0% XP bottom-out...for that matter, even the chance of it....raises many issues about my time's worth vs. the game's deserving such time.
As an example, like I said I am a casual MMOer (play more standard games these days than MMOs), but I will often play for brief one-day marathons; maybe 1-2 hours throughout the week, and then suddenly 12-14 hours on a Sunday. Will this system restrict me from playing one character for a 12-14 hour period once a week? If it does, it's flawed. I love alts, but not if I am forced to play them.
Some posters have mentioned that this will make it hard for a friend to level up if he comes in later on. This is half true; you could get him to level up and reach the same level as the current players, but it now requires that they slow down their play time, rather than him increasing his play time. It seems ridiculous.
I know much has been bandied about about the problem of MMO players addictively playing past a healthy level...but I think we as players should still have the right to make such decisions. Any arbitrary effort to control or manage player behavior is going to flop.
I do see your point but i look at it from a different view.
As a casual gamer who does not spend 20+ hours a week on a game, it works better for me as i will rarely use up my alloted experience. Also as i understand it would work as a number of exp gained and not time, i'm pretty sure i have read that a few times, so again as a casual gamer it will work better for myself. the way levels work in games is that you need more exp per level.....so players catching up will have a better chance with this system as the higher level players will reach thier cap much sooner.
Aagin at the moment it is all down to interpretation untill we understand the ins and out's.
One thing is that it will not stop me playing the game after i reach the exp cap.....as i am a game player and will only play the game if it is enjoyable and not just to level. if the game isnt worth playing once you are on 0% exp.....then it's not worth playing if your gaining 500+% exp.
A poor idea for a system that clearly wasn't thought out very well.
Let's say you buy the game and play for a few weeks and like it. You decide to recommend it to a friend who ends up buying it. Your friend would like to level up to where you are in order to be able to group up with you. With this new system, it becomes impossible for your friend to really ever catch up since his progress will have articifical restraints.
This system also will create bottlenecks in leveling areas as the initial pack of people who buy the game level up together at the same speed. This sounds to me like the devs know the end game is severely lacking and they are using this system to stall the players long enough to add some content.
You can just change your job and level up with him until he reaches your original mains class level. But as it was stated in that well written review, this is also a benefit to you. Leveling up multiple job classes opens up new abilities to help customize your overall character, making you much more powerful as well as valuable to the community than you would have been had you just leveled 1 job.
Also, Square-Enix has always been about the journey too, not the result at the end. I do not believe their end game will be lacking at all. It never has been in FFXI. There goal is just to encourage players to slow down and enjoy everything the game has to offer instead of just rushing to max level ASAP only to be disappointed that there are only 4 other players in that level range and then quit blaming SE for a poor end game. An end game they can't even experience yet because there isn't enough people to experience it with.
Overall, kudo's to SE on this decision. Slow people down. Hopefully they see the work you've devoted yourself as a whole. And not just the shiny epix and the pixel dragons that those epix spew forth from.
You linked the the article from the 24th, but did you bother to read the two articles posted the next day? The second one in particular is interesting, as it has the original Japanese text of the message posted to the ffivcore messageboards. Admittedly the English translation below the article should say "8 hours worth" instead of "8 hours", or in other words "the predetermined amount of XP Square thinks a person would be able to get in eight hours", but in the comments this is clarified and discussed.
Did Sankaku troll? Or did they post the information available to them at the time, subsequently clarifying and posting more relevant information as it came out? Funny that the entire first part of your article is based on three-day-old information that was rebuked and clarified the very next day. And also funny that you mention evaluating your sources, but your only source seems to be a translated version of information posted to Sankaku 48 hours ago.
I think what you don't understand though is that the first posting of the article "with what information was available" has already done its damage. People have canceled pre-orders, and are now generally overlooking an amazing game because of 1 misinformed posting by Sankakutard. Whether or not the post was rebuked and re-edited the damage is done. Now we just get to reap what one tard has sewn.
Wow I have never seen a game end before it starts before....well I guess this was a first...Bankrupt SquareEnix Here we come.
They'll still shift loads of boxes, simply because its FF. So expect loads of PR around that once its launched, then going quiet when a high percentage don't go into the second and third month.
The system is in BETA. Moreover, I don't think those that are in an uproar really understand how this game is supposed to work. The game is not all about getting ONE SINGLE job leveled to max and smashing things at end game for gear.
Granted, I'm not crazy about diminishing returns on XP, but if I do manage to hit the point of ZERO experience, I'll just level another job that has complimentary skills. Maybe I'll level up a useful hand/land profession that will benefit my main combat job. You needed to stop and level other jobs/crafting skills in FFXI - this game is just making it a bit more obvious that it might be time to work on something else.
I'm sure it'll see at least some sort of change as feedback rolls in. Overall it doesn't kill the game in my eyes. Just another game mechanic to either work with/around or avoid by not playing.
Experience is diminishing across ALL classes. The game is obviously designed for the casual player. If you aren't a casual player, you may not like this game.
That being said, it saddens me because I love Final Fantasy and XI was one of my favorite all time mmorpg's. It was not designed in that manner, so I could play all I wanted and didn't feel cheated out of my monthly subscription. I don't play it now because the graphics are outdated and most of my friends have moved on.
A game shouldn't dictate how much time I could play it.
If this system was double xp dropping to normal xp, I would be fine with that. Zero xp will cause me to log off. I don't pay 15 bucks a month or whatever just to play a game for 15 hours a week. I love crafting too, so I might not come across this problem so much, but I'd have to try it out.
The system is in BETA. Moreover, I don't think those that are in an uproar really understand how this game is supposed to work. The game is not all about getting ONE SINGLE job leveled to max and smashing things at end game for gear.
Granted, I'm not crazy about diminishing returns on XP, but if I do manage to hit the point of ZERO experience, I'll just level another job that has complimentary skills. Maybe I'll level up a useful hand/land profession that will benefit my main combat job. You needed to stop and level other jobs/crafting skills in FFXI - this game is just making it a bit more obvious that it might be time to work on something else.
I'm sure it'll see at least some sort of change as feedback rolls in. Overall it doesn't kill the game in my eyes. Just another game mechanic to either work with/around or avoid by not playing.
-Kash
Hmm.. you know, in what you said there is an unspoken truth to FFXIV which I believe is a large part of the problem with this game. It's purpose isn't to have you lvl one job, but to mess around w/ many. Makes sense, however the focus is still on leveling (grinding), only instead of focusing on one thing you now have to focus on many. This is a great time sink, but it needs content to back it up if player are going to be able to really get immersed in such a system as a whole. I know this has been promised for many times to come, but given the void currently in the game they have a lot to fill.
I don't have enough self-hate to play FF14. FF11 was absurdly group oriented when I played it, and it REQUIRED tons of time to make any progress. Sounds like they now want to punish you for finally finding that group to play with...
Designer 1: "How can we milk the players for longer sub times without actually putting in more content?"
Designer 2: "We go old school EQ1 on them and cockblock them..."
Designer 1: "We've done that."
Designer 2: "... let me finish. We cockblock them ALL THE TIME not just at the end game. Instead of making hell levels only, we make hell levels AND force them to not play after a certain amount of xp is gained in a week, that way ... ... It'll take 13.5 months for even the most hard core person to reach max level even if played constantly!"
Designer 1: "BRILLIANT! Those suckers who love Justin Beiber hairstyles on their male characters with their giant flaming... er... swords.... will drink this right up!"
Damn man..I'm still rolling..reading it over and over..."We go old school on them and cockblock them".
Considering almost every Multiplayer Game that comes out of Japan results in a bunch of CyberSex scandals and guilds, I would consider such a system to be the least of their worries considering the damage the first game did. When FFXI was released people were skipping work, trying to call in sick and many were showing health problems from overplaying. The release of the game and people becoming addicted to the game is what resulted in Square putting that warning message you see each time you log into FFXI.
I remember when I gave those Japanese players a chance in Phantasy Star Online, Phantasy Star Universe, FFXI, FFXIV....and they never change. Eventually you enter a room where you get someone with a marriage proposition followed by Cybersex. Don't forget that there was coverage on a "Japanese male" marrying a "digital girl" in 2009. Subliminal Mind Control techniques were in use in 2006 - 2008 in their advertisements, not to mention that lately thanks to Konami, a lot of people are going around with their SmartPhones, Scanning Bar Codes, taking pictures and telling their friends about their "Date" and Photoshoot with their Digital Girlfriends (who they think are real and better than real women...
I know the Japanese Language inside and out and once you get beyond the world of Anime, Entertainment-Technology and their video games, its a place that leaves much to be desired. Also as far as research goes into "looks" between male and females...the most popular males among women are Korean Males, while the most popular females on the average among males are actually Taiwanese Females. Japanese Males Rank dead last and Japanese females rank second to last in the great asian chain....Kind of depressing if you ask me.
The reason I replied in this manner was simply because one talks about a fatigue system and acts like its the end of the world and forgets...that asians, who are well studied and educated is actually a myth. Very few percentage actually show higher education and the majority just like westerners, believe in any little thing they read online or offline through some "official" looking article.
"The fatigue system was a rumor, but wait! There is a fatigue system and does just what it claims to do...Limit a player's playtime by punishing returns!" Its like saying "The fatigue system is a rumor, but wait I just contradicted myself and said there was one..."
Sorry, but if you don't like it...Play another game, or better yet. Play a nice MMORPG that at least 5 billion people play called REAL LIFE. ^^ I've been spending a lot of time leveling up all my classes. ^^
Comments
I refuse to play a game that controls how fast I level or gain skills!! I'm going back to Playdo!
Hmm..
I think the players with much time will still get rewarded in some way with this system, just not in terms of physhical level.
The system makes it more possible to actually find someone to group with, as most players will have the same or very close physhical level, that is a good thing
And remeber folks, nothing of this is set in stone..
/junker
Calling this system a social service to help people manage gaming addictions is quite funny, really. It does not stop a person from "playing" it only stops them from one type of "advancement."
The only truth about this system is that an MMO development studio will, for the first time (that I'm aware of), know the exact timeframe that the first character CAN reach max level. No amount of multi-boxing or other measures will get the character to max level any faster. I see this as a control mechanism, nothing more.
Given that information, SE had better have their "end game" lined up properly, as they cannot use the excuse that they didn't expect players to hit max level so quickly.
As a casual player, I don't really mind the system - I'll never play enough in one week to even notice the restriction.
Its not 200% xp vs normal xp, its normal xp vs no xp, as in once you use up all the time for a certain class and physical level, you get NO xp. At least that is my understanding.
I dont like it, but ill probably only hit it during the weekends anyway so it wont be THAT big a deal for me, but I do understand why others hate the idea.
The main point is that it is highly increased XP and advancement over the alternative system of a simple X xp over Y time to Z level formula that all other MMO's use. It is just a higher payout that falls to nothing allowing them to control X xp over Y time to Z level while still letting casuals accomplish something.
EVERY MMO out there determines how you play and how long it takes do something. Would you rather play Lineage 2 style where 1 level can take weeks and casuals can make almost no progress per week, or a system that rewards the first 10-15 hours you play and lets you make progress at any level.
I guarantee you if it was a typical system half these people would bitch about the grind and time to level. People just complain in general.
OH great ... guess what ? I am one of the 6 hours a day people .. YES .. I do have that time open to me and YES ... I do Love to Game that much .. I still Mow the lawn every week, work Every day, and shop, do the laundry, cook the meals, and all that other stuff ...
SO I spend 9 hours a day at work .. nobody gives a rip .. I BUST My rump too .. Some days I spend close to 12 hours just working on chores around the house WHO GIVES A RIP ?
BUT WAIT a darn Minute mister .. IF I GAME 6 hours ? MAN, I am a sick MO FO who has nothing better to do with my time ? I have my hands slapped and the wind Kicked out of me with some GAME penalty ?
Why is it, that every time I order a games Special Edition box set ... I get screwed ? Warhammer I got the special edition ... ZONK .... Age of Conan I order Special Edition .. ZONK ... EQ2 I order special Edition .... ZONK ... Tabula Rasa ... and the list goes on, and on, and on ...
I think it could be me GUYS ? you should check with me a few months before you buy your game, to see if I have Pre-Ordered the special Edition of the game .. IF I HAVE .. you know that the game will be a FLOP ... I have the numbers to prove my success at this ...
I do not care if a game wants to REWARD off line players, with added EXP bonus, to catch up with Players (me) who do not LOG OFF as much as them ....
I DO CARE, if that same game has a PUNISHMENT FOR ME in place, that also PENALIZES ME for playing longer then,,, "the established Average",,, game session.
THIS IS JUST PLAIN WRONG ! ! ! ! .. and will not fly for long, with any of your Player base that you want to HOLD onto,, to play and PAY for your game.
I hope you guys making this game, do some very close looks at changing this system to a reward system, by giving off line bonus ONLY ... and TAKE DOWN that Horrible Penalty for Play system your TESTING Out on the Public ...
Pn2P ... GOOD WORK .. you now have earned your OWN designation in the game worlds ... YOU HAVE a ....... Penalty To Play ...... game .... Pn2P ....
I am going to give this game a try, as I am a fan of FF games ... THIS penalty to exp, Could have me running away, and I promise I will never look back ...
I was going to join open beta,
After learning about this Pn2P system, I will wait for the game to be released. I hope by then something Good will have happened, and I will have these sinking feelings about the game, proven wrong.
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
Sorry about not getting the paragraphs to show in my post up there ... seems like ONE space is not enough to show up .. I have to place Two SPACES between paragraphs to have it show up as one
Like this ... SIGH ...
As you can see it is my first post here ... Normally I just read them ... However on this Penalty system I feel the urge to Speak out...
I just say NO to a penalty system on Experiance.
I say YES to a Exp Gain system to HELP players keep up if they can not Play as long as others.
Look to the stars to know HE is with us. HE hung them as markers, of times and of seasons.
It's not the same as rested xp. Rested xp comes from player choice of whether it's better to sleep or keep playing 8 hours... And at NO time does the xp go below "normal" (50% of "rested" to be sure, but even at its "normal rate", advancement is more than acceptable). This design is NOT that. This design stops you from earning xp. Period. Stops advancement. There is no positive spin to put on that. It doesn't stop farming, it doesn't help keep people together, it doesn't do anything except irritate people and artificially cap the rate of advancement in the game (to help you keep PAYING longer, not PLAYING longer). The more time SE gets you to log off and NOT use their service is more money made by them (less bandwidth, processing power, etc). If they thought they could get away with it, they'd probably limit people to 1 hour of xp gain a month.
Because 0% is a lot different than 100%.
Shadus
QTF. No "punishment systems", If they want to give 300-400-500% exp to people under a certain ratio that's fine... but I don't want to see exp rate EVER hit 0% thats absurd.
Shadus
okay let's say you are now on your fatigue-status. You can not get more EXP for the next time till it is reset. well what could you do besides exping? missions, quests crafting etc. A Big Problem of FFXI still is the people just seem to want to get exp. if you want a mission done or so better hope you have friends to help you out or even a social ls. Having the opportunity to say: okay time for missions n shit you can easily get progress in the game world by not even exping. This is a hughe thing and i think it's positive. However for getting to highest level as fast as possible: it is bad yes. But think about what happened back in ffxi. When the Xbox360 players started there were a ton of Endgame people (sure it comes with the duration it has been out) and they ALL made a huge profit out of those new players. Even more back in time we have a hughe Price increase of certain items that some could not possibly get under 12 million Gil since the RMT (real money trader) had thier chars p to date with the best gear and could kill anything (except AV lol).
For Players in eorzea SE intents to make things smoother and not so unfair .(viewing from a casual player... if you can call a FFXI player this)
it is a step in a direction noone else went to. And it think it's gonna work.
again i appologise for not reading through the whole thread here and just the oOP and a few more.
But sounds to me like a great idea! as i am not a power player. I play the game rather than grind to level as fast as poss. This idea may take the edge of levelling and get players to concentrate on playing the game more...just like EQs hell levels used to make me forget about the exp bar
Thats if i understand it all correctly!
I'm pretty casual as MMOs go (or at least, since I rarely spend more than 10-12 hours a week in MMOs I have been told such), but this is a bad idea for the following reasons:
Punishment systems, as indicated in various posts and the original article are negative rewards; these do not endear the game to people. It is possible to "repackage" something like this ala Blizzard so that the system still operates a certain way without appearing to be a punishment, but an eventual 0% XP bottom-out...for that matter, even the chance of it....raises many issues about my time's worth vs. the game's deserving such time.
As an example, like I said I am a casual MMOer (play more standard games these days than MMOs), but I will often play for brief one-day marathons; maybe 1-2 hours throughout the week, and then suddenly 12-14 hours on a Sunday. Will this system restrict me from playing one character for a 12-14 hour period once a week? If it does, it's flawed. I love alts, but not if I am forced to play them.
Some posters have mentioned that this will make it hard for a friend to level up if he comes in later on. This is half true; you could get him to level up and reach the same level as the current players, but it now requires that they slow down their play time, rather than him increasing his play time. It seems ridiculous.
I know much has been bandied about about the problem of MMO players addictively playing past a healthy level...but I think we as players should still have the right to make such decisions. Any arbitrary effort to control or manage player behavior is going to flop.
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
I would relax...I didn't get past the first sentence of either post.I do see your point but i look at it from a different view.
As a casual gamer who does not spend 20+ hours a week on a game, it works better for me as i will rarely use up my alloted experience. Also as i understand it would work as a number of exp gained and not time, i'm pretty sure i have read that a few times, so again as a casual gamer it will work better for myself. the way levels work in games is that you need more exp per level.....so players catching up will have a better chance with this system as the higher level players will reach thier cap much sooner.
Aagin at the moment it is all down to interpretation untill we understand the ins and out's.
One thing is that it will not stop me playing the game after i reach the exp cap.....as i am a game player and will only play the game if it is enjoyable and not just to level. if the game isnt worth playing once you are on 0% exp.....then it's not worth playing if your gaining 500+% exp.
You can just change your job and level up with him until he reaches your original mains class level. But as it was stated in that well written review, this is also a benefit to you. Leveling up multiple job classes opens up new abilities to help customize your overall character, making you much more powerful as well as valuable to the community than you would have been had you just leveled 1 job.
Also, Square-Enix has always been about the journey too, not the result at the end. I do not believe their end game will be lacking at all. It never has been in FFXI. There goal is just to encourage players to slow down and enjoy everything the game has to offer instead of just rushing to max level ASAP only to be disappointed that there are only 4 other players in that level range and then quit blaming SE for a poor end game. An end game they can't even experience yet because there isn't enough people to experience it with.
Overall, kudo's to SE on this decision. Slow people down. Hopefully they see the work you've devoted yourself as a whole. And not just the shiny epix and the pixel dragons that those epix spew forth from.
I think what you don't understand though is that the first posting of the article "with what information was available" has already done its damage. People have canceled pre-orders, and are now generally overlooking an amazing game because of 1 misinformed posting by Sankakutard. Whether or not the post was rebuked and re-edited the damage is done. Now we just get to reap what one tard has sewn.
Dump!
Other and better game are coming!
so dump this one
Luckly not everybody has the same opinion
Wow I have never seen a game end before it starts before....well I guess this was a first...Bankrupt SquareEnix Here we come.
They'll still shift loads of boxes, simply because its FF. So expect loads of PR around that once its launched, then going quiet when a high percentage don't go into the second and third month.
Chill...
The system is in BETA. Moreover, I don't think those that are in an uproar really understand how this game is supposed to work. The game is not all about getting ONE SINGLE job leveled to max and smashing things at end game for gear.
Granted, I'm not crazy about diminishing returns on XP, but if I do manage to hit the point of ZERO experience, I'll just level another job that has complimentary skills. Maybe I'll level up a useful hand/land profession that will benefit my main combat job. You needed to stop and level other jobs/crafting skills in FFXI - this game is just making it a bit more obvious that it might be time to work on something else.
I'm sure it'll see at least some sort of change as feedback rolls in. Overall it doesn't kill the game in my eyes. Just another game mechanic to either work with/around or avoid by not playing.
-Kash
Honestly, I wasn't looking at everyone's links in their posts, but EVERYONE should read this to clarify:
http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/11964-surplus-and-you-komoto-speaks/
Experience is diminishing across ALL classes. The game is obviously designed for the casual player. If you aren't a casual player, you may not like this game.
That being said, it saddens me because I love Final Fantasy and XI was one of my favorite all time mmorpg's. It was not designed in that manner, so I could play all I wanted and didn't feel cheated out of my monthly subscription. I don't play it now because the graphics are outdated and most of my friends have moved on.
A game shouldn't dictate how much time I could play it.
If this system was double xp dropping to normal xp, I would be fine with that. Zero xp will cause me to log off. I don't pay 15 bucks a month or whatever just to play a game for 15 hours a week. I love crafting too, so I might not come across this problem so much, but I'd have to try it out.
Hmm.. you know, in what you said there is an unspoken truth to FFXIV which I believe is a large part of the problem with this game. It's purpose isn't to have you lvl one job, but to mess around w/ many. Makes sense, however the focus is still on leveling (grinding), only instead of focusing on one thing you now have to focus on many. This is a great time sink, but it needs content to back it up if player are going to be able to really get immersed in such a system as a whole. I know this has been promised for many times to come, but given the void currently in the game they have a lot to fill.
Damn man..I'm still rolling..reading it over and over..."We go old school on them and cockblock them".
Sweeeeet.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate!?
Considering almost every Multiplayer Game that comes out of Japan results in a bunch of CyberSex scandals and guilds, I would consider such a system to be the least of their worries considering the damage the first game did. When FFXI was released people were skipping work, trying to call in sick and many were showing health problems from overplaying. The release of the game and people becoming addicted to the game is what resulted in Square putting that warning message you see each time you log into FFXI.
I remember when I gave those Japanese players a chance in Phantasy Star Online, Phantasy Star Universe, FFXI, FFXIV....and they never change. Eventually you enter a room where you get someone with a marriage proposition followed by Cybersex. Don't forget that there was coverage on a "Japanese male" marrying a "digital girl" in 2009. Subliminal Mind Control techniques were in use in 2006 - 2008 in their advertisements, not to mention that lately thanks to Konami, a lot of people are going around with their SmartPhones, Scanning Bar Codes, taking pictures and telling their friends about their "Date" and Photoshoot with their Digital Girlfriends (who they think are real and better than real women...
I know the Japanese Language inside and out and once you get beyond the world of Anime, Entertainment-Technology and their video games, its a place that leaves much to be desired. Also as far as research goes into "looks" between male and females...the most popular males among women are Korean Males, while the most popular females on the average among males are actually Taiwanese Females. Japanese Males Rank dead last and Japanese females rank second to last in the great asian chain....Kind of depressing if you ask me.
The reason I replied in this manner was simply because one talks about a fatigue system and acts like its the end of the world and forgets...that asians, who are well studied and educated is actually a myth. Very few percentage actually show higher education and the majority just like westerners, believe in any little thing they read online or offline through some "official" looking article.
"The fatigue system was a rumor, but wait! There is a fatigue system and does just what it claims to do...Limit a player's playtime by punishing returns!" Its like saying "The fatigue system is a rumor, but wait I just contradicted myself and said there was one..."
Sorry, but if you don't like it...Play another game, or better yet. Play a nice MMORPG that at least 5 billion people play called REAL LIFE. ^^ I've been spending a lot of time leveling up all my classes. ^^