Well, along those lines, I have some simple advice for those people: if they don't want to be called stupid or lazy, they should stop imitating a stupid, lazy person. "I just can't handle this interface!" sounds a whole lot like that when a lot of us here can and have.
I see less of the highlighted red and more of this:
"This interface is obnoxious!"
And I can see their point. I just don't have a problem with getting used to it.
I can see their point too, and I don't have a problem with getting used to it, and this is where calling them lazy and stupid comes in: they, like me, like you, can get used to it if they apply themselves. If they don't want to apply themselves, what word would you use to describe that behavior? No, you can't answer "typical" unless you describe what "typical" behavior means in this context.
Agree with you.
I don't want to say they're 'stupid'. But I wouldn't say it's a stretch that *some* of them are lazy. Some, I'm sure, have no genuine interest in playing XIV and never had... It's just the newest MMO to bash on and the interface is a convenient subject to do so with.
However, I agree 100% that the interface is not as bad as some make it out to be. Yes, it's laggy in beta. They know this and are working on it. Yes it requires a few extra button presses... but we're talking button presses that take maybe 3 seconds - tops - to complete... typically less than that.
I am very much a normal, average person and consider myself fairly intelligent. Not brilliant. Not a brain-surgeon... but intelligent enough to figure most things out that I'm presented with.
That said... It took me about 5 minutes to learn enough of the interface to be functional, between "what does this key do?" experimentation and referring to the manual SE provided.. it was easy. About an hour after that, I was playing almost entirely out of muscle memory.
This same process repeated with gamepad, mouse/keyboard (once they added the more "traditional FPS/MMO style setup) and keyboard only. I'm actually going to be playing the live game on keyboard only simply because intuitively it feels the best to me.
Anyway.. The interface was not difficult to figure out. Some things took a little digging, but once I found them I learned them and that was that.
It's at the point now that I'm typically either right-on or just ahead of the game in terms of using keys or interacting with things.
The game is perfectly playable as it's been in Beta and I can only imagine it will be improved further over time.
That's not to say that it can't use tweaks and improvements.. I agree. However, I can not relate at all to the complaints of people who claim the interface makes the game impossible to play. It has nothing to do with "accepting whatever crap SE throws at me" or "being a fanboy"... I simply took the time to learn the interface, learn where things were, committed them to memory... and played.
Nothing difficult about it. So, yes, I can agree that in some cases, laziness is the culprit when it comes to people claiming they can't play with the interface/controls. If I can learn and become comfortable with it, and many others can... so can they. The difference is one group puts forth the effort to learn the interface... the other would rather complain about it.
Though I guess it should be said that I have a natural curiosity for things that are new. Where some will see something new and unfamiliar and be turned off if there's no manual or directions telling them what to do... I become curious and think "oh.. how does this work?". So maybe that has something to do with it in my case :-p
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Exactly! There are soo many other games out there made for people who WANT instant gratification or who DON'T like any grind, or WANT to be able to get the game right off the bat.
Some of us LIKE not knowing and going in feet first. New games are like visiting a new country and in a lot of ways it is, some of us LIKE getting acquainted with the culture and adapting to what is there. And others only want to go visit countries where they understand the language and know they can find a McDonalds.
The UI FFXIV has is part of the experience learn it's language instead of insisting everyone speak the way you want them to.
A Short and Sweet Message to you Complainers
TO ALL OF YOU THAT DON'T LIKE THIS GAME, THE UI, ETC. GO THE HELL BACK TO WHERE YOU ARE COMFORTABLE THEN IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH! Go and play the games you like with the Ui's you are comfortable with and LEAVE OUR GAME ALONE!
We will take this game and watch it refine itself and you guys can go and play the games you like. Does it make this game better? No. Does it make your game better no. It just means get the heck out of our country and we'll stay the heck out of yours.
Shit. This stuff makes me sooooo pissed off. I hope Tanaka comes up with a virus to destroy peoples video cards that go and waste their time complaining about games they aren't going to play.
If you aren't gonna play it. GTFO and STAY OUT.
AND HAVE A NICE DAY
Take a chill pill, pal. But I have to agree with you. There's no perfect game out there that fit everyone's shoes. You don't like some features of this game, to the extent that you decide not to play it and go to its board to start a flame about it. That's understandable. But why keep doing it so consistently like your whole family was murdered because of that game?
I joined WoW with my WC3 lore exp so I expected some intense PVP events between the Horde and Alliance. But what was there for me was little to nothing. Wintergrasp was a joke. An end-game siege warfare that happens every 2 hours with no prepraration reqired. Shocked? I was. Anger? I was. Then I decided to do Arena and BGs but it didn't hold my attention for too long because it's instanced. A 2 factions PVP game with no open world PVP event is a BIG fail imo so I quit, in peace. Leave that game for the other 11 millions to enjoy themselves.
I like FFXIV. You like other games. Why not enjoy our game instead of going to other game's boards you dont like/hate and troll every threads there. Is it that hard to do it?
Hahaha I couldn't help it. You just need to fight the man sometimes! just kidding. I was bored. But I'm glad you agree.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I really don't know how anyone could compare a well explained and thoughtfully crafted game like EVE to FF XIV at all. Just looking at sheer functionality FF XIV is not even on the same planet. Just look at the Market of EVE with it's analytical tools or the intricate crafting-system where everything is complex and makes perfect sense.
Actually it's a good comparison to all those who think that explaining the mechanics to players is "handholding" and "for the retarded". In EVE every aspect of the game is explained in great detail ingame as well as via wikis, which you can even access via an ingame browser today. And EVE is a hundred times more complex than FF XIV.
dont forget ffxiv is still in the womb so to speak while eve has been adding stuff since what, 2004? I'm a 2006 player and i know the game then was a lot smaller than it is today, and some of the things that might go into your definition of "thoughtfully crafted" might not have been there at launch... even i remember the time when there was no "warp-to-zero" and everyone complained including me that it was unabashedly dumb to have to make bookmarks 15km off a location to be able to jump there on target. i mean the races of eve had mastered FTL travel but can't figure out how to land on top of something
there were a lot fewer systems back then and they were added bit by bit over the years just as i am sure ffxiv will add more and more stuff over the years.
dont get me wrong i dont think we'll be seeing line graphs of bone chip +1 prices anytime soon but even such things as more jobs would add complexity to ff14, since characters in 14 can apply skills from another class to their current one to customise their current role.
but don't compare whether something is "thoughtfully crafted" between a game that's 6 years old (which again i admit is an awesome gamea and one that i play religiously) and a game that releases in half a week.
Are you saying that you think FFIV is going to rival EVE in complexity and depth?
Because it won't. Ever. Certainly FFXI wasn't in the same ballpark. I don't see any reason why this would be. Do you?
What complexity and depth does EvE have that isn't a matter of player interaction? Take away player corporations and PVP and what are you left with; Gathering Materials, Crafting, some Questing, and Grinding Mobs for loot and xp. All of the depth is player made. If at some point Player Kingdoms were introduced to FFXIV it would be just as deep as EvE.
You forgot insane amounts of customization for character builds, ship choices and loadout choices. This alone makes FFXIV look like a kids game in comparison.
You forgot about their insane regional market system of buying and selling.
Player owned stations.
The corporation system blows the FFXIV linkshell system out of the water when you consider depth.
Even the way they treat resistances and effects has far more depth.
You magically discounted the fact that players do actually add a ton of complexity and depth to the game. Not sure why you thought that was ok. But you are correct in that FFXIV player interaction is limited when compared to that of EVE. This diminishes the depth and complexity of FFXIV greatly when compared to EVE.
I'm sure there are many, many more things, but I haven't played it for like a year.
No one is attacking you. Be less overdramatic please. The game in OB was a mess and people point it out. It can be much better depending on what they were holding back of course. The over sensitivity of people on here when someone does not like their game is amusing though.
Lol , yes its easy to say wre being overdramatic. But in point of fact, there are many personal attacks on our tastes and preferences as well as our faculties of reasoning because we like FF14. Instead of people who "find the game to be a mess" leaving the forums, they do attack the game to provoke us (ie troll) and attack us personally with either inferred or direct insults.
For instance, you say no one is attacking us and then call me "overdramatic" and laugh at my "sensitivity". Its that sort of respectful dialogue that we are seeing on the ff14 forums.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I think that the people choosing not to play have more complaints than that.
Yes, but in my experience on these forums, the overwhleming majority of it is, "it doesn't play like the games I'm used to."
Originally posted by colddog04
Even if that was their singular reason for not playing, it's just as valid as any other reason not to play a game. It doesn't make them stupid or lazy. It makes them picky.
Yeah, that's a bit like saying, "he wouldn't choose to play the game because he's choosy."
Listen, I know it's not nice to tell somebody that they're being ignorant or lazy. And personally I don't get off on doing so. (Though I do admit a certain smug satisfaction to having a game with a minimum barrier of entry.)
However, when someone backs me into the corner and demands, "why can't I enjoy this game, why do you claim to enjoy this game I cannot enjoy? I'm putting a review on your forums to prove that you should hate this game!" Then they don't leave me much choice, now do they?
You are EXACTLY the type of person I was commenting on in my response to the OP.
Just because you have more PATIENCE does not mean you have more "mental faculties", or are any more intelligent than anyone else. More to the point, even if you are more intelligent that someone else is it really the mature thing to do to continually boast about it? Dragging your soap box around screaming to the world that everyone that doesn't like the UI or doesn't want to take the time to learn about it in BETA where the manual doesn't exist readily is stupid?
You nailed it on the head in your comment above...you are smug, and no one likes a smug prick. I'm not even a basher of this game, I thought it had it's merits but I'm not into grinding mobs anymore (played EQ for 2 years when it came out and had my fill), and currently in beta that's all there is to do really after the levees are done. I also had a rough time even figuring out where I was for the first hour or two because I couldn't figure out how to move the map around, but having a physical manual will help that come release time.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
I think that the people choosing not to play have more complaints than that.
Yes, but in my experience on these forums, the overwhleming majority of it is, "it doesn't play like the games I'm used to."
Originally posted by colddog04
Even if that was their singular reason for not playing, it's just as valid as any other reason not to play a game. It doesn't make them stupid or lazy. It makes them picky.
Yeah, that's a bit like saying, "he wouldn't choose to play the game because he's choosy."
Listen, I know it's not nice to tell somebody that they're being ignorant or lazy. And personally I don't get off on doing so. (Though I do admit a certain smug satisfaction to having a game with a minimum barrier of entry.)
However, when someone backs me into the corner and demands, "why can't I enjoy this game, why do you claim to enjoy this game I cannot enjoy? I'm putting a review on your forums to prove that you should hate this game!" Then they don't leave me much choice, now do they?
You are EXACTLY the type of person I was commenting on in my response to the OP.
Just because you have more PATIENCE does not mean you have more "mental faculties", or are any more intelligent than anyone else. More to the point, even if you are more intelligent that someone else is it really the mature thing to do to continually boast about it? Dragging your soap box around screaming to the world that everyone that doesn't like the UI or doesn't want to take the time to learn about it in BETA where the manual doesn't exist readily is stupid?
You nailed it on the head in your comment above...you are smug, and no one likes a smug prick. I'm not even a basher of this game, I thought it had it's merits but I'm not into grinding mobs anymore (played EQ for 2 years when it came out and had my fill), and currently in beta that's all there is to do really after the levees are done. I also had a rough time even figuring out where I was for the first hour or two because I couldn't figure out how to move the map around, but having a physical manual will help that come release time.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
He really is. And heros can do whatever they want in their kingdoms. Aside from raping the off-limits people... That's just a no-no.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I think that the people choosing not to play have more complaints than that.
Yes, but in my experience on these forums, the overwhleming majority of it is, "it doesn't play like the games I'm used to."
Originally posted by colddog04
Even if that was their singular reason for not playing, it's just as valid as any other reason not to play a game. It doesn't make them stupid or lazy. It makes them picky.
Yeah, that's a bit like saying, "he wouldn't choose to play the game because he's choosy."
Listen, I know it's not nice to tell somebody that they're being ignorant or lazy. And personally I don't get off on doing so. (Though I do admit a certain smug satisfaction to having a game with a minimum barrier of entry.)
However, when someone backs me into the corner and demands, "why can't I enjoy this game, why do you claim to enjoy this game I cannot enjoy? I'm putting a review on your forums to prove that you should hate this game!" Then they don't leave me much choice, now do they?
You are EXACTLY the type of person I was commenting on in my response to the OP.
Just because you have more PATIENCE does not mean you have more "mental faculties", or are any more intelligent than anyone else. More to the point, even if you are more intelligent that someone else is it really the mature thing to do to continually boast about it? Dragging your soap box around screaming to the world that everyone that doesn't like the UI or doesn't want to take the time to learn about it in BETA where the manual doesn't exist readily is stupid?
You nailed it on the head in your comment above...you are smug, and no one likes a smug prick. I'm not even a basher of this game, I thought it had it's merits but I'm not into grinding mobs anymore (played EQ for 2 years when it came out and had my fill), and currently in beta that's all there is to do really after the levees are done. I also had a rough time even figuring out where I was for the first hour or two because I couldn't figure out how to move the map around, but having a physical manual will help that come release time.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
I'm willing to bet at least an equal or greater amount of people do not like him. :P
I think that the people choosing not to play have more complaints than that.
Yes, but in my experience on these forums, the overwhleming majority of it is, "it doesn't play like the games I'm used to."
Originally posted by colddog04
Even if that was their singular reason for not playing, it's just as valid as any other reason not to play a game. It doesn't make them stupid or lazy. It makes them picky.
Yeah, that's a bit like saying, "he wouldn't choose to play the game because he's choosy."
Listen, I know it's not nice to tell somebody that they're being ignorant or lazy. And personally I don't get off on doing so. (Though I do admit a certain smug satisfaction to having a game with a minimum barrier of entry.)
However, when someone backs me into the corner and demands, "why can't I enjoy this game, why do you claim to enjoy this game I cannot enjoy? I'm putting a review on your forums to prove that you should hate this game!" Then they don't leave me much choice, now do they?
You are EXACTLY the type of person I was commenting on in my response to the OP.
Just because you have more PATIENCE does not mean you have more "mental faculties", or are any more intelligent than anyone else. More to the point, even if you are more intelligent that someone else is it really the mature thing to do to continually boast about it? Dragging your soap box around screaming to the world that everyone that doesn't like the UI or doesn't want to take the time to learn about it in BETA where the manual doesn't exist readily is stupid?
You nailed it on the head in your comment above...you are smug, and no one likes a smug prick. I'm not even a basher of this game, I thought it had it's merits but I'm not into grinding mobs anymore (played EQ for 2 years when it came out and had my fill), and currently in beta that's all there is to do really after the levees are done. I also had a rough time even figuring out where I was for the first hour or two because I couldn't figure out how to move the map around, but having a physical manual will help that come release time.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
Why do you need a knight in shining armor? Most of the time, in my experience, you guys are the ones resorting to personal attacks/flaming when anyone says anything negative about the game. This is a world with billions of opinions, and unfortunately for you guys I live in America where I am legally able to speak (or write in this case) mine.
Telling people to get out of the forums does nothing to help your cause either because this is the supposed to be the place to speak your mind on the game. Now, that's not to say that I agree with the useless trolling that goes on here by people who clearly have agendas, but not everyone that has a negative opinion about some aspect of the game or its community is a troll.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
I think that the people choosing not to play have more complaints than that.
Yes, but in my experience on these forums, the overwhleming majority of it is, "it doesn't play like the games I'm used to."
Originally posted by colddog04
Even if that was their singular reason for not playing, it's just as valid as any other reason not to play a game. It doesn't make them stupid or lazy. It makes them picky.
Yeah, that's a bit like saying, "he wouldn't choose to play the game because he's choosy."
Listen, I know it's not nice to tell somebody that they're being ignorant or lazy. And personally I don't get off on doing so. (Though I do admit a certain smug satisfaction to having a game with a minimum barrier of entry.)
However, when someone backs me into the corner and demands, "why can't I enjoy this game, why do you claim to enjoy this game I cannot enjoy? I'm putting a review on your forums to prove that you should hate this game!" Then they don't leave me much choice, now do they?
You are EXACTLY the type of person I was commenting on in my response to the OP.
Just because you have more PATIENCE does not mean you have more "mental faculties", or are any more intelligent than anyone else. More to the point, even if you are more intelligent that someone else is it really the mature thing to do to continually boast about it? Dragging your soap box around screaming to the world that everyone that doesn't like the UI or doesn't want to take the time to learn about it in BETA where the manual doesn't exist readily is stupid?
You nailed it on the head in your comment above...you are smug, and no one likes a smug prick. I'm not even a basher of this game, I thought it had it's merits but I'm not into grinding mobs anymore (played EQ for 2 years when it came out and had my fill), and currently in beta that's all there is to do really after the levees are done. I also had a rough time even figuring out where I was for the first hour or two because I couldn't figure out how to move the map around, but having a physical manual will help that come release time.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
I'm willing to bet at least an equal or greater amount of people do not like him. :P
He gets pretty aggressive sometimes.
Yah but most of the people who dont like him wont be playing FF14, lol. :P
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I think that the people choosing not to play have more complaints than that.
Yes, but in my experience on these forums, the overwhleming majority of it is, "it doesn't play like the games I'm used to."
Originally posted by colddog04
Even if that was their singular reason for not playing, it's just as valid as any other reason not to play a game. It doesn't make them stupid or lazy. It makes them picky.
Yeah, that's a bit like saying, "he wouldn't choose to play the game because he's choosy."
Listen, I know it's not nice to tell somebody that they're being ignorant or lazy. And personally I don't get off on doing so. (Though I do admit a certain smug satisfaction to having a game with a minimum barrier of entry.)
However, when someone backs me into the corner and demands, "why can't I enjoy this game, why do you claim to enjoy this game I cannot enjoy? I'm putting a review on your forums to prove that you should hate this game!" Then they don't leave me much choice, now do they?
You are EXACTLY the type of person I was commenting on in my response to the OP.
Just because you have more PATIENCE does not mean you have more "mental faculties", or are any more intelligent than anyone else. More to the point, even if you are more intelligent that someone else is it really the mature thing to do to continually boast about it? Dragging your soap box around screaming to the world that everyone that doesn't like the UI or doesn't want to take the time to learn about it in BETA where the manual doesn't exist readily is stupid?
You nailed it on the head in your comment above...you are smug, and no one likes a smug prick. I'm not even a basher of this game, I thought it had it's merits but I'm not into grinding mobs anymore (played EQ for 2 years when it came out and had my fill), and currently in beta that's all there is to do really after the levees are done. I also had a rough time even figuring out where I was for the first hour or two because I couldn't figure out how to move the map around, but having a physical manual will help that come release time.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
Why do you need a knight in shining armor? Most of the time, in my experience, you guys are the ones resorting to personal attacks/flaming when anyone says anything negative about the game. This is a world with billions of opinions, and unfortunately for you guys I live in America where I am legally able to speak (or write in this case) mine.
Telling people to get out of the forums does nothing to help your cause either because this is the supposed to be the place to speak your mind on the game. Now, that's not to say that I agree with the useless trolling that goes on here by people who clearly have agendas, but not everyone that has a negative opinion about some aspect of the game or its community is a troll.
If you look at an FF14 forum, believe me you will see all the same complaints; but in a few stickied threads and once they are discussed people move on. Here, these things are a constant barrage from trolls nothing more, they are not sticked and they are not meant to be discussed, they are meant to provoke us FF14 potential players.
So that is why I appreciate Gelds candor and gusto. That is why he is our Knight in shinning armor.
Also, we dont have a "cause" as some people think. We are not here to convince others to agree with us, which cannot be said for the people who want to "discuss game flaws" incessantly. We are just gamers who want to talk about our game, and cannot because of people derailing threads and taking up space on the forums with troll posts.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
He really is. And heros can do whatever they want in their kingdoms. Aside from raping the off-limits people... That's just a no-no.
hehe You are absolutely charming, PM me and ill give u my msn. i think my friend wants to be on Linblum- i wish he'd choose Selbina, where u going?
I'm actually headed to Besaid, I love RP culture. =D
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
He really is. And heros can do whatever they want in their kingdoms. Aside from raping the off-limits people... That's just a no-no.
hehe You are absolutely charming, PM me and ill give u my msn. i think my friend wants to be on Linblum- i wish he'd choose Selbina, where u going?
I'm actually headed to Besaid, I love RP culture. =D
True story; when i heard there'd be an RP server... i got all excited and decided Id join it, because even if I do not RP they will be a blast to play with. Like you said; I just knew that RP culture would be a great environment to be part of, and I could see myself trying it out. But convincing my friends to join the same server as me has been such a trial. Blah, maybe ill just try and get my friends to choose Besiad and see what happens.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I'm actually headed to Besaid, I love RP culture. =D
Besaid is a designated RP server? If it's monitored (more or less) for OOC regional chat that's where I'll go as well. I don't RP much anymore but if it is monitored, it will cut down on 'stupid' chat. Well worth the effort to RP.
I'm actually headed to Besaid, I love RP culture. =D
Besaid is a designated RP server? If it's monitored (more or less) for OOC regional chat that's where I'll go as well. I don't RP much anymore but if it is monitored, it will cut down on 'stupid' chat. Well worth the effort to RP.
Unofficial, SE has asked though if there is anything they can do to assist in making it a better experience for RP'ers. So send an email to Eorzeapedia.com to let them know that might be helpful. Ultimately i dont see SE doing it.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I'm actually headed to Besaid, I love RP culture. =D
Besaid is a designated RP server? If it's monitored (more or less) for OOC regional chat that's where I'll go as well. I don't RP much anymore but if it is monitored, it will cut down on 'stupid' chat. Well worth the effort to RP.
Unofficial, SE has asked though if there is anything they can do to assist in making it a better experience for RP'ers. So send an email to Eorzeapedia.com to let them know that might be helpful. Ultimately i dont see SE doing it.
Bummer. Well I'll probably migrate there anyway and hope for the best.
Yup I don't think there will be an Official RP server it's fine the way it is. It has a comfortable balance between the RPers and the Non-RPers =D
All the trolls that were there during OB will probably not being playing during release or at least not on that server. You can really tell it's the RP server. You see people walking around in the city not running, chatting about where is the best place to buy things. Who to ask about what, people just chatting sorting out what leves they want to do.
Very enchanting. Really brings the world of Eorzea alive.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I don't want to say they're 'stupid'. But I wouldn't say it's a stretch that *some* of them are lazy. Some, I'm sure, have no genuine interest in playing XIV and never had... It's just the newest MMO to bash on and the interface is a convenient subject to do so with.
However, I agree 100% that the interface is not as bad as some make it out to be. Yes, it's laggy in beta. They know this and are working on it. Yes it requires a few extra button presses... but we're talking button presses that take maybe 3 seconds - tops - to complete... typically less than that.
I am very much a normal, average person and consider myself fairly intelligent. Not brilliant. Not a brain-surgeon... but intelligent enough to figure most things out that I'm presented with.
That said... It took me about 5 minutes to learn enough of the interface to be functional, between "what does this key do?" experimentation and referring to the manual SE provided.. it was easy. About an hour after that, I was playing almost entirely out of muscle memory.
This same process repeated with gamepad, mouse/keyboard (once they added the more "traditional FPS/MMO style setup) and keyboard only. I'm actually going to be playing the live game on keyboard only simply because intuitively it feels the best to me.
Anyway.. The interface was not difficult to figure out. Some things took a little digging, but once I found them I learned them and that was that.
It's at the point now that I'm typically either right-on or just ahead of the game in terms of using keys or interacting with things.
The game is perfectly playable as it's been in Beta and I can only imagine it will be improved further over time.
That's not to say that it can't use tweaks and improvements.. I agree. However, I can not relate at all to the complaints of people who claim the interface makes the game impossible to play. It has nothing to do with "accepting whatever crap SE throws at me" or "being a fanboy"... I simply took the time to learn the interface, learn where things were, committed them to memory... and played.
Nothing difficult about it. So, yes, I can agree that in some cases, laziness is the culprit when it comes to people claiming they can't play with the interface/controls. If I can learn and become comfortable with it, and many others can... so can they. The difference is one group puts forth the effort to learn the interface... the other would rather complain about it.
I think in a lot of cases it's pretty much this. If controls are too different from what people are used to, or takes more time than expected to figure them out, they already get annoyed, sometimes even to an unreasonable point. And that's not only with controls.
Of course, people are entitled to skip a game because it annoys them, after all, we al play a game for fun.
But if they can't or won't go through the trouble to familiarise themselves with different controls or can't get comfortable with playing the game that way where others clearly don't have that problem, then that says more about themselves and their adaptability than about the interface or the game.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
First, to Geldonyetich, let me say that I really appreciate your ability to articulate what I find myself thinking a LOT with regard to how people approach gaming, yet seldom am able to form the words out of my own frustration.
What I think is fundamental here is the question: At what point does a game just not suit a gamer? All too often, I see people complaining about this or that feature-- or the lack thereof-- and I wonder "Just what sort of game are you looking for?" While there's been a lot of genre mixing over the last decade or so, I believe that there are still discrete genres. I mean, if a person wants an FPS, play an FPS, for example.
The same goes for interfaces. An interface is a feature, therefore, it should be considered when weighing a decision to play or not play the game. Even if the interface is a superficial matter in the grand scheme of things, at some point, one needs to decide whether it's going to keep them away and then be done with it. I prefer a char-broiled hamburger over pan-fried. Do I stand at the counter at McDonald's and declare that I'm not going to budge until they grill me a Big Mac while insulting the other patrons for their preference? Of course not. I simply go where I know my preferences will be catered to, like Burger King or Dairy Queen.
On the flip side of that analogy, do people ever walk up to you while you are at McDonald's and tell you how magnificent the Big Mac is and tell you that you are stupid and lazy for not liking it?
If I didn't like their product, why would I be in there? I wouldn't go out of my way to walk into a McDonald's just to bitch about how they cook their burgers. And yet, it's supposed to be accepted as the norm in these forums for people to take the time to go to the forums of a game they don't like and assert how much they don't like them. And then, when they're given rebukes, they start playing the martyr.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
No one is attacking you. Be less overdramatic please. The game in OB was a mess and people point it out. It can be much better depending on what they were holding back of course. The over sensitivity of people on here when someone does not like their game is amusing though.
Lol , yes its easy to say wre being overdramatic. But in point of fact, there are many personal attacks on our tastes and preferences as well as our faculties of reasoning because we like FF14. Instead of people who "find the game to be a mess" leaving the forums, they do attack the game to provoke us (ie troll) and attack us personally with either inferred or direct insults.
For instance, you say no one is attacking us and then call me "overdramatic" and laugh at my "sensitivity". Its that sort of respectful dialogue that we are seeing on the ff14 forums.
Not insulting your playing choices in any way. I am in hopes the game gets better so I will play it. Still getting the CE in hopes of that actually. However after the horror that was FFXIII my hopes are much more jaded. These forums have less and less gray area these days and to much black and white. And people in this day and age are oversensitive over everything.
You might not be, but I think it is clear I was talking about many people on this FF14 forum in general.
And in regards to another sensitivity crack. I think its easy for someone to go around saying whatever they like and then using the Freedom of Speech defence, it doesn't mean that said person is bothering to be a decent and respectful human being. They are just a walking case of barrens chat, how charming.
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
In ff14, crafting is absolutely essential to the economy and most gear will come from crafting.
in eve, crafting is absolutely essential and most gear comes from crafting.
------------------------------------
in ff14, there is a story to guide your character, and repeatable pve missions to accomplish if you so wish, but you are essentially free to explore the world as you wish.
in eve, there is a story to guide your character, and repeatable pve missions to accomplish if you so wish, but you are essentially free to explore the world as you wish.
-------------------------------------
in ff4 your character can take on multiple roles and since you use one character, your reputation is important which helps cut down on asshats.
in eve, your character can take on multiple roles and since you use one character, your reputation is important which would cut down on asshats, if it weren't for the fact that in certain situations in eve asshattery is a huge plus.
-------------------------------------
in ffxi the controls and such are a barrier for entry, this causes some people to go OMG CANNOT UNDERSTAND and the rest of the community goes, ok bye.
in eve the controls are only the beginning of the barrier for entry and this causes some people to go OMG CANNOT UNDERSTAND and the rest of the community goes ok, bye.
------------------------------------------
just noticed it now, but it really does have quite a few similarities with eve. ofc it has a lot of differences as well (it has levels and eve does not, there's a biggy) but overall------ i am surprised.
no wonder i like both /grin
see you in new eden, in eorzea and (probably!) defending this on the boards here.
Itch
edit for great spellingz
You can’t compare FFXIV to EVE in any meaningful way because they have a completely different focus. Eve is a PVP game at its heart and soul and everything else is just designed to support that activity or drive you towards it while FFXIV is a PVE game.
Comparing the crafting system of these two games isn’t really fair. Even if most gear is made by crafters (which I doubt the highest end gear will be) without a system of item lose like you have in Eve crafting will never be more than a side thing.
As for the controls, forcing the user to fight the interface to play a game isn’t good gameplay design by any measure.
No one is attacking you. Be less overdramatic please. The game in OB was a mess and people point it out. It can be much better depending on what they were holding back of course. The over sensitivity of people on here when someone does not like their game is amusing though.
Lol , yes its easy to say wre being overdramatic. But in point of fact, there are many personal attacks on our tastes and preferences as well as our faculties of reasoning because we like FF14. Instead of people who "find the game to be a mess" leaving the forums, they do attack the game to provoke us (ie troll) and attack us personally with either inferred or direct insults.
For instance, you say no one is attacking us and then call me "overdramatic" and laugh at my "sensitivity". Its that sort of respectful dialogue that we are seeing on the ff14 forums.
Not insulting your playing choices in any way. I am in hopes the game gets better so I will play it. Still getting the CE in hopes of that actually. However after the horror that was FFXIII my hopes are much more jaded. These forums have less and less gray area these days and to much black and white. And people in this day and age are oversensitive over everything.
You might not be, but I think it is clear I was talking about many people on this FF14 forum in general.
And in regards to another sensitivity crack. I think its easy for someone to go around saying whatever they like and then using the Freedom of Speech defence, it doesn't mean that said person is bothering to be a decent and respectful human being. They are just a walking case of barrens chat, how charming.
Problem is that you take the comment personally when it was more an observation on things on this forums. Say something negative about a game and people think you are somehow attacking them. It is like someone saying they do not like McDonalds because the food makes you gain to much weight and the fat guy at the table next to you takes offense. I do not think you can just spout anything off but anymore you can barely make any comment without someone taking offense.
I think you are talking about the response that people are getting from FF14 potential players to the trolling that is going on here, and its about time for a response of that nature.
In regards to the actual ability for trolls to spout thier pseudo-trolling comments and reviews, that still happens, so it would be incorrect to say that its getting to the point where they cannot. Its just getting to the point where FF14 players have decided to put the trolls and hangers on's in their place. And that is their right as much as it is the pseudo-trolls right to make their "comments".
I love snails. I love every kinda snail. I just want to hug them all, but I cant. Cant hug every snail.
I really don't know how anyone could compare a well explained and thoughtfully crafted game like EVE to FF XIV at all. Just looking at sheer functionality FF XIV is not even on the same planet. Just look at the Market of EVE with it's analytical tools or the intricate crafting-system where everything is complex and makes perfect sense.
Actually it's a good comparison to all those who think that explaining the mechanics to players is "handholding" and "for the retarded". In EVE every aspect of the game is explained in great detail ingame as well as via wikis, which you can even access via an ingame browser today. And EVE is a hundred times more complex than FF XIV.
dont forget ffxiv is still in the womb so to speak while eve has been adding stuff since what, 2004? I'm a 2006 player and i know the game then was a lot smaller than it is today, and some of the things that might go into your definition of "thoughtfully crafted" might not have been there at launch... even i remember the time when there was no "warp-to-zero" and everyone complained including me that it was unabashedly dumb to have to make bookmarks 15km off a location to be able to jump there on target. i mean the races of eve had mastered FTL travel but can't figure out how to land on top of something
there were a lot fewer systems back then and they were added bit by bit over the years just as i am sure ffxiv will add more and more stuff over the years.
dont get me wrong i dont think we'll be seeing line graphs of bone chip +1 prices anytime soon but even such things as more jobs would add complexity to ff14, since characters in 14 can apply skills from another class to their current one to customise their current role.
but don't compare whether something is "thoughtfully crafted" between a game that's 6 years old (which again i admit is an awesome gamea and one that i play religiously) and a game that releases in half a week.
Are you saying that you think FFIV is going to rival EVE in complexity and depth?
Because it won't. Ever. Certainly FFXI wasn't in the same ballpark. I don't see any reason why this would be. Do you?
What complexity and depth does EvE have that isn't a matter of player interaction? Take away player corporations and PVP and what are you left with; Gathering Materials, Crafting, some Questing, and Grinding Mobs for loot and xp. All of the depth is player made. If at some point Player Kingdoms were introduced to FFXIV it would be just as deep as EvE.
You forgot insane amounts of customization for character builds, ship choices and loadout choices. This alone makes FFXIV look like a kids game in comparison.
You forgot about their insane regional market system of buying and selling.
Player owned stations.
The corporation system blows the FFXIV linkshell system out of the water when you consider depth.
Even the way they treat resistances and effects has far more depth.
You magically discounted the fact that players do actually add a ton of complexity and depth to the game. Not sure why you thought that was ok. But you are correct in that FFXIV player interaction is limited when compared to that of EVE. This diminishes the depth and complexity of FFXIV greatly when compared to EVE.
I'm sure there are many, many more things, but I haven't played it for like a year.
I'm just saying that 90% of the depth of EvE is player driven. The game facilitates it to a point, but the intrigues are all player driven. As for their insane amounts of characters builds, when it all comes down to it most people will have to specialize which will lock them into a smaller amount of choices given their chosen profession. Veterans can be jack of all trades, but a noob is never going to be able to, meaning they will have to pick a role and specialize, which limits them to a lower echelon nearly indefinitely.
I like EvE, and no I don't think that Final Fantasy will have as much depth, but for a fantasy MMO there's nothing else that's closer or has more potential.
I like EvE, and no I don't think that Final Fantasy will have as much depth, but for a fantasy MMO there's nothing else that's closer or has more potential.
that was what i was trying to get at as well, heh
itch
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Comments
Agree with you.
I don't want to say they're 'stupid'. But I wouldn't say it's a stretch that *some* of them are lazy. Some, I'm sure, have no genuine interest in playing XIV and never had... It's just the newest MMO to bash on and the interface is a convenient subject to do so with.
However, I agree 100% that the interface is not as bad as some make it out to be. Yes, it's laggy in beta. They know this and are working on it. Yes it requires a few extra button presses... but we're talking button presses that take maybe 3 seconds - tops - to complete... typically less than that.
I am very much a normal, average person and consider myself fairly intelligent. Not brilliant. Not a brain-surgeon... but intelligent enough to figure most things out that I'm presented with.
That said... It took me about 5 minutes to learn enough of the interface to be functional, between "what does this key do?" experimentation and referring to the manual SE provided.. it was easy. About an hour after that, I was playing almost entirely out of muscle memory.
This same process repeated with gamepad, mouse/keyboard (once they added the more "traditional FPS/MMO style setup) and keyboard only. I'm actually going to be playing the live game on keyboard only simply because intuitively it feels the best to me.
Anyway.. The interface was not difficult to figure out. Some things took a little digging, but once I found them I learned them and that was that.
It's at the point now that I'm typically either right-on or just ahead of the game in terms of using keys or interacting with things.
The game is perfectly playable as it's been in Beta and I can only imagine it will be improved further over time.
That's not to say that it can't use tweaks and improvements.. I agree. However, I can not relate at all to the complaints of people who claim the interface makes the game impossible to play. It has nothing to do with "accepting whatever crap SE throws at me" or "being a fanboy"... I simply took the time to learn the interface, learn where things were, committed them to memory... and played.
Nothing difficult about it. So, yes, I can agree that in some cases, laziness is the culprit when it comes to people claiming they can't play with the interface/controls. If I can learn and become comfortable with it, and many others can... so can they. The difference is one group puts forth the effort to learn the interface... the other would rather complain about it.
Though I guess it should be said that I have a natural curiosity for things that are new. Where some will see something new and unfamiliar and be turned off if there's no manual or directions telling them what to do... I become curious and think "oh.. how does this work?". So maybe that has something to do with it in my case :-p
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Hahaha I couldn't help it. You just need to fight the man sometimes! just kidding. I was bored.
But I'm glad you agree.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
You forgot insane amounts of customization for character builds, ship choices and loadout choices. This alone makes FFXIV look like a kids game in comparison.
You forgot about their insane regional market system of buying and selling.
Player owned stations.
The corporation system blows the FFXIV linkshell system out of the water when you consider depth.
Even the way they treat resistances and effects has far more depth.
You magically discounted the fact that players do actually add a ton of complexity and depth to the game. Not sure why you thought that was ok. But you are correct in that FFXIV player interaction is limited when compared to that of EVE. This diminishes the depth and complexity of FFXIV greatly when compared to EVE.
I'm sure there are many, many more things, but I haven't played it for like a year.
Lol , yes its easy to say wre being overdramatic. But in point of fact, there are many personal attacks on our tastes and preferences as well as our faculties of reasoning because we like FF14. Instead of people who "find the game to be a mess" leaving the forums, they do attack the game to provoke us (ie troll) and attack us personally with either inferred or direct insults.
For instance, you say no one is attacking us and then call me "overdramatic" and laugh at my "sensitivity". Its that sort of respectful dialogue that we are seeing on the ff14 forums.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
You are EXACTLY the type of person I was commenting on in my response to the OP.
Just because you have more PATIENCE does not mean you have more "mental faculties", or are any more intelligent than anyone else. More to the point, even if you are more intelligent that someone else is it really the mature thing to do to continually boast about it? Dragging your soap box around screaming to the world that everyone that doesn't like the UI or doesn't want to take the time to learn about it in BETA where the manual doesn't exist readily is stupid?
You nailed it on the head in your comment above...you are smug, and no one likes a smug prick. I'm not even a basher of this game, I thought it had it's merits but I'm not into grinding mobs anymore (played EQ for 2 years when it came out and had my fill), and currently in beta that's all there is to do really after the levees are done. I also had a rough time even figuring out where I was for the first hour or two because I couldn't figure out how to move the map around, but having a physical manual will help that come release time.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
I think lots of us like Geld, he is a Knight in shinning armor.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
He really is. And heros can do whatever they want in their kingdoms. Aside from raping the off-limits people... That's just a no-no.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I'm willing to bet at least an equal or greater amount of people do not like him. :P
He gets pretty aggressive sometimes.
Why do you need a knight in shining armor? Most of the time, in my experience, you guys are the ones resorting to personal attacks/flaming when anyone says anything negative about the game. This is a world with billions of opinions, and unfortunately for you guys I live in America where I am legally able to speak (or write in this case) mine.
Telling people to get out of the forums does nothing to help your cause either because this is the supposed to be the place to speak your mind on the game. Now, that's not to say that I agree with the useless trolling that goes on here by people who clearly have agendas, but not everyone that has a negative opinion about some aspect of the game or its community is a troll.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
hehe You are absolutely charming, PM me and ill give u my msn. i think my friend wants to be on Linblum- i wish he'd choose Selbina, where u going?
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
Yah but most of the people who dont like him wont be playing FF14, lol. :P
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
If you look at an FF14 forum, believe me you will see all the same complaints; but in a few stickied threads and once they are discussed people move on. Here, these things are a constant barrage from trolls nothing more, they are not sticked and they are not meant to be discussed, they are meant to provoke us FF14 potential players.
So that is why I appreciate Gelds candor and gusto. That is why he is our Knight in shinning armor.
Also, we dont have a "cause" as some people think. We are not here to convince others to agree with us, which cannot be said for the people who want to "discuss game flaws" incessantly. We are just gamers who want to talk about our game, and cannot because of people derailing threads and taking up space on the forums with troll posts.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
I'm actually headed to Besaid, I love RP culture. =D
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
True story; when i heard there'd be an RP server... i got all excited and decided Id join it, because even if I do not RP they will be a blast to play with. Like you said; I just knew that RP culture would be a great environment to be part of, and I could see myself trying it out. But convincing my friends to join the same server as me has been such a trial. Blah, maybe ill just try and get my friends to choose Besiad and see what happens.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
Besaid is a designated RP server? If it's monitored (more or less) for OOC regional chat that's where I'll go as well. I don't RP much anymore but if it is monitored, it will cut down on 'stupid' chat. Well worth the effort to RP.
Unofficial, SE has asked though if there is anything they can do to assist in making it a better experience for RP'ers. So send an email to Eorzeapedia.com to let them know that might be helpful. Ultimately i dont see SE doing it.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
Bummer. Well I'll probably migrate there anyway and hope for the best.
Yup I don't think there will be an Official RP server it's fine the way it is. It has a comfortable balance between the RPers and the Non-RPers =D
All the trolls that were there during OB will probably not being playing during release or at least not on that server. You can really tell it's the RP server. You see people walking around in the city not running, chatting about where is the best place to buy things. Who to ask about what, people just chatting sorting out what leves they want to do.
Very enchanting. Really brings the world of Eorzea alive.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I think in a lot of cases it's pretty much this. If controls are too different from what people are used to, or takes more time than expected to figure them out, they already get annoyed, sometimes even to an unreasonable point. And that's not only with controls.
Of course, people are entitled to skip a game because it annoys them, after all, we al play a game for fun.
But if they can't or won't go through the trouble to familiarise themselves with different controls or can't get comfortable with playing the game that way where others clearly don't have that problem, then that says more about themselves and their adaptability than about the interface or the game.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If I didn't like their product, why would I be in there? I wouldn't go out of my way to walk into a McDonald's just to bitch about how they cook their burgers. And yet, it's supposed to be accepted as the norm in these forums for people to take the time to go to the forums of a game they don't like and assert how much they don't like them. And then, when they're given rebukes, they start playing the martyr.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
You might not be, but I think it is clear I was talking about many people on this FF14 forum in general.
And in regards to another sensitivity crack. I think its easy for someone to go around saying whatever they like and then using the Freedom of Speech defence, it doesn't mean that said person is bothering to be a decent and respectful human being. They are just a walking case of barrens chat, how charming.
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
You can’t compare FFXIV to EVE in any meaningful way because they have a completely different focus. Eve is a PVP game at its heart and soul and everything else is just designed to support that activity or drive you towards it while FFXIV is a PVE game.
Comparing the crafting system of these two games isn’t really fair. Even if most gear is made by crafters (which I doubt the highest end gear will be) without a system of item lose like you have in Eve crafting will never be more than a side thing.
As for the controls, forcing the user to fight the interface to play a game isn’t good gameplay design by any measure.
I think you are talking about the response that people are getting from FF14 potential players to the trolling that is going on here, and its about time for a response of that nature.
In regards to the actual ability for trolls to spout thier pseudo-trolling comments and reviews, that still happens, so it would be incorrect to say that its getting to the point where they cannot. Its just getting to the point where FF14 players have decided to put the trolls and hangers on's in their place. And that is their right as much as it is the pseudo-trolls right to make their "comments".
I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.
I'm just saying that 90% of the depth of EvE is player driven. The game facilitates it to a point, but the intrigues are all player driven. As for their insane amounts of characters builds, when it all comes down to it most people will have to specialize which will lock them into a smaller amount of choices given their chosen profession. Veterans can be jack of all trades, but a noob is never going to be able to, meaning they will have to pick a role and specialize, which limits them to a lower echelon nearly indefinitely.
I like EvE, and no I don't think that Final Fantasy will have as much depth, but for a fantasy MMO there's nothing else that's closer or has more potential.
that was what i was trying to get at as well, heh
itch
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins