I'll never understand the need for 500,000 of these threads every time a new MMO comes out. The constant need for people to put a new MMO against WoW.
Why can't it just either surpass or not WoW nice and quietly, in peaceful none-thread-rage/trolling ways?
Instead you have the fanboi's rage on one side and the equally bad disbelievers in anything better than the all-mighty WoW God on the other.
I'm super excited for this game yes, but this thread is unnecessary.
/end rant
Isn't it sorta silly to call them disbelievers in a derogatory manner when all evidence points to them being right?
There are dozens of games that have been deemed wow killers, some that looked as promising or were just as hyped as gw2. None of them even came close.
It is not in a derogatory manner, and they are not right. First of all, at this point in time the only people that really play WoW anymore are super involved fanboi's. Now it is not their fault that nothing better in their eyes has come out but the problem lies with the fact that every game before it is even release gets shot down as "a WoW clone." Second, where I would agree with your claim that they are usually right the game won't kill WoW, I reject the notion that GW2 is like every other game released. GW2 is coming from a proven well run MMO game franchise and is including all original and new idea's for gameplay and game mechanics.
Anyway...short story is: No I disagree with you. Whether the game surpasses WoW or not is completely up to the public. Everyone fails to remember WoW only started with a few thousand players in Vanilla. After 7 years it might be 12 million but everyone compares 12 million to a new mmo starting off. It's pathetic.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
I'll never understand the need for 500,000 of these threads every time a new MMO comes out. The constant need for people to put a new MMO against WoW.
Why can't it just either surpass or not WoW nice and quietly, in peaceful none-thread-rage/trolling ways?
Instead you have the fanboi's rage on one side and the equally bad disbelievers in anything better than the all-mighty WoW God on the other.
I'm super excited for this game yes, but this thread is unnecessary.
/end rant
Isn't it sorta silly to call them disbelievers in a derogatory manner when all evidence points to them being right?
There are dozens of games that have been deemed wow killers, some that looked as promising or were just as hyped as gw2. None of them even came close.
It is not in a derogatory manner, and they are not right. First of all, at this point in time the only people that really play WoW anymore are super involved fanboi's. Now it is not their fault that nothing better in their eyes has come out but the problem lies with the fact that every game before it is even release gets shot down as "a WoW clone." Second, where I would agree with your claim that they are usually right the game won't kill WoW, I reject the notion that GW2 is like every other game released. GW2 is coming from a proven well run MMO game franchise and is including all original and new idea's for gameplay and game mechanics.
Anyway...short story is: No I disagree with you. Whether the game surpasses WoW or not is completely up to the public. Everyone fails to remember WoW only started with a few thousand players in Vanilla. After 7 years it might be 12 million but everyone compares 12 million to a new mmo starting off. It's pathetic.
If anything the majority of wow players right now are casual players not hardcore players. If you don't even realize that it tells me you have extremely limited experience with WoW.
WoW didn't start with a few thousand players in vanilla, it broke sales records immediately and breached the 1 million mark shortly.
You really don't know what you are talking about and as I said before, anyone that even considers the possibility of GW2 killing WoW, just has no understanding of the mmorpg industry. I know that sounds close-minded and obtuse, but there is a reason WoW has remained dominant, and it's not because being liberal about possibilities makes you feel happy about gw2.
If anything the majority of wow players right now are casual players not hardcore players. If you don't even realize that it tells me you have extremely limited experience with WoW.
(snips)
At this point you merely start to repeat yourself. We know that you don't think much of GW2. We know that each of your post is directed to put GW2 in a bad spot light or an attempt to talk down to GW2 fans.
I'd say, start singing new songs or just leave it be, I think we can all agree that the OP topic itself is a pointless and very repetitive one.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If anything the majority of wow players right now are casual players not hardcore players. If you don't even realize that it tells me you have extremely limited experience with WoW.
(snips)
At this point you merely start to repeat yourself. We know that you don't think much of GW2. We know that each of your post is directed to put GW2 in a bad spot light or an attempt to talk down to GW2 fans.
I'd say, start singing new songs or just leave it be, I think we can all agree that the OP topic itself is a pointless and very repetitive one.
Sorry asking someone to sing a new song just because some gw2 fans want to spread gross misinformation about WoW and paint it as the devil is silly.
I'm a gw2 fan too, I'm just not some rabid fanboi that is clueless about the industry.
Your mentality is basically that of someone that wants to remain willfully ignorant to WoW and anything about WoW, and then just sit there discussing "facts" about it that aren't remotely accurate.
If anything the GW2 community needs to become more well-informed, not less well-informed just to appease the fans that want to be oblivious to the reality of things.
Please I am more informed about WoW than you. I played it for 5 years. I know the game in and out. I was part of the first guilds in the world that cleared the TBC and Wrath content upon release. I know the game and what it was before the stupid carebear nerfs that forced me to leave the game in it's sheer hollow shell of what it became afterwords. People will never again know the horrors that were Sunwell before nerfs. Never again will blizzard make something that hard, so please don't even dare try to insult me and say I don't know.
I know exactly the type of people that play the game now and it is because they are addicted to it like crack. Everyone knows that WoW is a drug and that it is almost impossible to get off of. Hence the sheer dedicated fan-base. WoW isn't the devil it is just bad now in the sense that it is nothing like it should be, nothing like it was. Now all they care about is milking the game for all it is worth, and in the process have turn it into crap.
They may not be any more old school hardcore players like me and my former guilds anymore in that game but Blizzard as redefined hardcore in WoW to: their loyal fanbase. Hence the problem with the game. Anyone and everyone in the game is "hardcore" now or what anyone can understand as casual gamers.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
No game has killed any other game as far as I know.
while i would never want to understate funcom's role in AoC failing, i think people would have been more inclined to stick with it had WAR never existed. so... i think WAR killing AoC could be debated.
No game has killed any other game as far as I know.
while i would never want to understate funcom's role in AoC failing, i think people would have been more inclined to stick with it had WAR never existed. so... i think WAR killing AoC could be debated.
Um no? Last I check AoC is doing better than WAR. The most recent expansion is awesome. I love AoC for not appealing to the casual gamers and having instances that have still not be completed. That shows creative, difficult gameplay mechanics. Last I also checked, WAR only is active in their T1 zones (due to their free trial thing) and after that there really isn't as much.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
Being the WoW killer means being able convince all the current WoW subscriber to give up their progress in WoW after years of grinding.
That...seems impossible.
I gave it up pretty easily. I don't even dislike the game and I didn't need another MMO to pull me away. My friends are still playing it but I have no interest in joining them.
So it is possible.
Now see if you can convince your friends to play GW2.
Returning to this after a bit of a delay.
Last week, I sent a link to the Shatterer fight, as well as the human tutorial fight with the earth elemental, to the four friends of mine that are still playing WoW. Three of four were ready to jump ship there and then to start playing GW2. The other was adamant about staying in WoW and was unimpressed (at least he said as much) with the vids. So three of four. Not a bad tally.
And just to be up-front, neither of the three "converts" were writing off WoW and all were still looking forward to Cataclysm. But all three were more excited by what they saw of GW2 than what they are expecting out of Cat.
Oh, and one of the friends I also sent those links to is a complete non-MMOer. His reaction: "i lubs it!". He never confirmed that he would start playing it, but it certainly piqued his interest.
No game has killed any other game as far as I know.
while i would never want to understate funcom's role in AoC failing, i think people would have been more inclined to stick with it had WAR never existed. so... i think WAR killing AoC could be debated.
Um no? Last I check AoC is doing better than WAR. The most recent expansion is awesome. I love AoC for not appealing to the casual gamers and having instances that have still not be completed. That shows creative, difficult gameplay mechanics. Last I also checked, WAR only is active in their T1 zones (due to their free trial thing) and after that there really isn't as much.
i don't think a game needs to be doing better than another today to constitute having killed a game. and concerning AoCs present state i can't say. what i do know is that the game was thriving and exciting until the bugs and WAR's release happened. games will always have loyal fans, but saying that AoC is doing better than WAR is not actually saying very much at all i'm sorry to have to tell you.
Seriously? Who cares? As long as the game actually releases and is fun to play, I'm happy. I don't care if WoW has 50 million subs at the same time as GW2 has only 100k people playing as long as it's fun.
If anything the majority of wow players right now are casual players not hardcore players. If you don't even realize that it tells me you have extremely limited experience with WoW.
(snips)
At this point you merely start to repeat yourself. We know that you don't think much of GW2. We know that each of your post is directed to put GW2 in a bad spot light or an attempt to talk down to GW2 fans.
I'd say, start singing new songs or just leave it be, I think we can all agree that the OP topic itself is a pointless and very repetitive one.
Sorry asking someone to sing a new song just because some gw2 fans want to spread gross misinformation about WoW and paint it as the devil is silly.
I'm a gw2 fan too, I'm just not some rabid fanboi that is clueless about the industry.
Your mentality is basically that of someone that wants to remain willfully ignorant to WoW and anything about WoW, and then just sit there discussing "facts" about it that aren't remotely accurate.
If anything the GW2 community needs to become more well-informed, not less well-informed just to appease the fans that want to be oblivious to the reality of things.
Please I am more informed about WoW than you. I played it for 5 years. I know the game in and out. I was part of the first guilds in the world that cleared the TBC and Wrath content upon release. I know the game and what it was before the stupid carebear nerfs that forced me to leave the game in it's sheer hollow shell of what it became afterwords. People will never again know the horrors that were Sunwell before nerfs. Never again will blizzard make something that hard, so please don't even dare try to insult me and say I don't know.
I know exactly the type of people that play the game now and it is because they are addicted to it like crack. Everyone knows that WoW is a drug and that it is almost impossible to get off of. Hence the sheer dedicated fan-base. WoW isn't the devil it is just bad now in the sense that it is nothing like it should be, nothing like it was. Now all they care about is milking the game for all it is worth, and in the process have turn it into crap.
They may not be any more old school hardcore players like me and my former guilds anymore in that game but Blizzard as redefined hardcore in WoW to: their loyal fanbase. Hence the problem with the game. Anyone and everyone in the game is "hardcore" now or what anyone can understand as casual gamers.
What's the point of lying? You clearly didn't play wow in vanilla if you think it only started with a "few thousand" players.
Nor have you played it in WoTLK to any competitive degree if you think the game only has hardcore players left, as I mentioned before blizzards goal in TBC and furthermore in WoTLK has been to make the game more and more casual friendly, less grinds, less time sinks, easier content. Anyone that raided on any significant level could have easily identified this transition.
The only people you are going to fool are people that have limited experience in wow, and most of them probably still realize that the game has been catering to casuals more and more with each expansion.
I mean honestly did you really expect anyone to believe you were an experienced wow player when you claim the game started off with a few thousand players and the only 12million people left playing were hardcore players? I have news for you, most MMO players are casual, the hardcore gamers are the minority.
Seriously? Who cares? As long as the game actually releases and is fun to play, I'm happy. I don't care if WoW has 50 million subs at the same time as GW2 has only 100k people playing as long as it's fun.
Could'nt have put it better myself . Thought we'd seen and end to the pathetic wowkiller threads .Obviously I was wrong . Also where was it written that there cant be two or more very successful mmos anyway . It does'nt follow that WoW has to be killed . There are six billion of us human beings and a substantual number more than 12 million are gamers and have internet connections .
I don't see the logic that mmos have only a finite number of players world wide . If anything the numbers going to go up when theres more decent games on the market .
Seriously? Who cares? As long as the game actually releases and is fun to play, I'm happy. I don't care if WoW has 50 million subs at the same time as GW2 has only 100k people playing as long as it's fun.
Could'nt have put it better myself . Thought we'd seen and end to the pathetic wowkiller threads .Obviously I was wrong . Also where was it written that there cant be two or more very successful mmos anyway . It does'nt follow that WoW has to be killed . There are six billion of us human beings and a substantual number more than 12 million are gamers and have internet connections .
I don't see the logic that mmos have only a finite number of players world wide . If anything the numbers going to go up when theres more decent games on the market .
It's a matter of insecurity, a lot of people want their game to be the american idol of games because they want to believe they play THE best and THE biggest game to validate themselves.
The reality of it is that all you need is a few thousand active players that create a good community to play within.
It's hard to tell how many people are playing WoW currently. Blizzard claims an all time high of 12 million, but I remember checking out the database at Warcraftrealms a couple of years ago, and at the time the stats (characters level 10 and up that have been seen in the previous 30 days) for U.S. servers was around 4.1 million, and for European servers it was around 2.6 million. I just looked now and the numbers have dropped to 2.9 million and 2.1 million. Did China increase by a couple of million in that time period, or is Blizzard juking the stats?
It's hard to tell how many people are playing WoW currently. Blizzard claims an all time high of 12 million, but I remember checking out the database at Warcraftrealms a couple of years ago, and at the time the stats (characters level 10 and up that have been seen in the previous 30 days) for U.S. servers was around 4.1 million, and for European servers it was around 2.6 million. I just looked now and the numbers have dropped to 2.9 million and 2.1 million. Did China increase by a couple of million in that time period, or is Blizzard juking the stats?
China probably did increase substantially with the fairly recent release of WotLK.
But using Warcraft Realms is pretty inaccurate. It comes to the numbers it does by having players use a mod. They even say the following:
"The collected World of Warcraft Census information gives a general view of server, faction and overall population trends. The data is limited to only characters level 10 and up that have been seen in the previous 30 days."
Additionally, if you read the FAQ, you will see that their information isn't all that accurate. It can be used for showing perhaps ratios and trends and nothing more.
Either way, NA shows 5 million right now on Warcraft realms.
Comments
It is not in a derogatory manner, and they are not right. First of all, at this point in time the only people that really play WoW anymore are super involved fanboi's. Now it is not their fault that nothing better in their eyes has come out but the problem lies with the fact that every game before it is even release gets shot down as "a WoW clone." Second, where I would agree with your claim that they are usually right the game won't kill WoW, I reject the notion that GW2 is like every other game released. GW2 is coming from a proven well run MMO game franchise and is including all original and new idea's for gameplay and game mechanics.
Anyway...short story is: No I disagree with you. Whether the game surpasses WoW or not is completely up to the public. Everyone fails to remember WoW only started with a few thousand players in Vanilla. After 7 years it might be 12 million but everyone compares 12 million to a new mmo starting off. It's pathetic.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
If anything the majority of wow players right now are casual players not hardcore players. If you don't even realize that it tells me you have extremely limited experience with WoW.
WoW didn't start with a few thousand players in vanilla, it broke sales records immediately and breached the 1 million mark shortly.
You really don't know what you are talking about and as I said before, anyone that even considers the possibility of GW2 killing WoW, just has no understanding of the mmorpg industry. I know that sounds close-minded and obtuse, but there is a reason WoW has remained dominant, and it's not because being liberal about possibilities makes you feel happy about gw2.
At this point you merely start to repeat yourself. We know that you don't think much of GW2. We know that each of your post is directed to put GW2 in a bad spot light or an attempt to talk down to GW2 fans.
I'd say, start singing new songs or just leave it be, I think we can all agree that the OP topic itself is a pointless and very repetitive one.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Please I am more informed about WoW than you. I played it for 5 years. I know the game in and out. I was part of the first guilds in the world that cleared the TBC and Wrath content upon release. I know the game and what it was before the stupid carebear nerfs that forced me to leave the game in it's sheer hollow shell of what it became afterwords. People will never again know the horrors that were Sunwell before nerfs. Never again will blizzard make something that hard, so please don't even dare try to insult me and say I don't know.
I know exactly the type of people that play the game now and it is because they are addicted to it like crack. Everyone knows that WoW is a drug and that it is almost impossible to get off of. Hence the sheer dedicated fan-base. WoW isn't the devil it is just bad now in the sense that it is nothing like it should be, nothing like it was. Now all they care about is milking the game for all it is worth, and in the process have turn it into crap.
They may not be any more old school hardcore players like me and my former guilds anymore in that game but Blizzard as redefined hardcore in WoW to: their loyal fanbase. Hence the problem with the game. Anyone and everyone in the game is "hardcore" now or what anyone can understand as casual gamers.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
while i would never want to understate funcom's role in AoC failing, i think people would have been more inclined to stick with it had WAR never existed. so... i think WAR killing AoC could be debated.
Um no? Last I check AoC is doing better than WAR. The most recent expansion is awesome. I love AoC for not appealing to the casual gamers and having instances that have still not be completed. That shows creative, difficult gameplay mechanics. Last I also checked, WAR only is active in their T1 zones (due to their free trial thing) and after that there really isn't as much.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
Returning to this after a bit of a delay.
Last week, I sent a link to the Shatterer fight, as well as the human tutorial fight with the earth elemental, to the four friends of mine that are still playing WoW. Three of four were ready to jump ship there and then to start playing GW2. The other was adamant about staying in WoW and was unimpressed (at least he said as much) with the vids. So three of four. Not a bad tally.
And just to be up-front, neither of the three "converts" were writing off WoW and all were still looking forward to Cataclysm. But all three were more excited by what they saw of GW2 than what they are expecting out of Cat.
Oh, and one of the friends I also sent those links to is a complete non-MMOer. His reaction: "i lubs it!". He never confirmed that he would start playing it, but it certainly piqued his interest.
i don't think a game needs to be doing better than another today to constitute having killed a game. and concerning AoCs present state i can't say. what i do know is that the game was thriving and exciting until the bugs and WAR's release happened. games will always have loyal fans, but saying that AoC is doing better than WAR is not actually saying very much at all i'm sorry to have to tell you.
The whole idea of a WoW killer is so silly.
Like the "average person" who plays wow is suddenly going to go to GW 2.
The average person who plays wow most likley doesn't follow mmo news and probably does't even know about GW 2.
the only WoW killer there is, is "time".
Over time WoW will lose subs due to many things. And of course "wow 2" or Bizzard's next mmo might help that along.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Seriously? Who cares? As long as the game actually releases and is fun to play, I'm happy. I don't care if WoW has 50 million subs at the same time as GW2 has only 100k people playing as long as it's fun.
Steam: Neph
What's the point of lying? You clearly didn't play wow in vanilla if you think it only started with a "few thousand" players.
Nor have you played it in WoTLK to any competitive degree if you think the game only has hardcore players left, as I mentioned before blizzards goal in TBC and furthermore in WoTLK has been to make the game more and more casual friendly, less grinds, less time sinks, easier content. Anyone that raided on any significant level could have easily identified this transition.
The only people you are going to fool are people that have limited experience in wow, and most of them probably still realize that the game has been catering to casuals more and more with each expansion.
I mean honestly did you really expect anyone to believe you were an experienced wow player when you claim the game started off with a few thousand players and the only 12million people left playing were hardcore players? I have news for you, most MMO players are casual, the hardcore gamers are the minority.
Could'nt have put it better myself . Thought we'd seen and end to the pathetic wowkiller threads .Obviously I was wrong . Also where was it written that there cant be two or more very successful mmos anyway . It does'nt follow that WoW has to be killed . There are six billion of us human beings and a substantual number more than 12 million are gamers and have internet connections .
I don't see the logic that mmos have only a finite number of players world wide . If anything the numbers going to go up when theres more decent games on the market .
It's a matter of insecurity, a lot of people want their game to be the american idol of games because they want to believe they play THE best and THE biggest game to validate themselves.
The reality of it is that all you need is a few thousand active players that create a good community to play within.
It's hard to tell how many people are playing WoW currently. Blizzard claims an all time high of 12 million, but I remember checking out the database at Warcraftrealms a couple of years ago, and at the time the stats (characters level 10 and up that have been seen in the previous 30 days) for U.S. servers was around 4.1 million, and for European servers it was around 2.6 million. I just looked now and the numbers have dropped to 2.9 million and 2.1 million. Did China increase by a couple of million in that time period, or is Blizzard juking the stats?
China probably did increase substantially with the fairly recent release of WotLK.
But using Warcraft Realms is pretty inaccurate. It comes to the numbers it does by having players use a mod. They even say the following:
"The collected World of Warcraft Census information gives a general view of server, faction and overall population trends. The data is limited to only characters level 10 and up that have been seen in the previous 30 days."
Additionally, if you read the FAQ, you will see that their information isn't all that accurate. It can be used for showing perhaps ratios and trends and nothing more.
Either way, NA shows 5 million right now on Warcraft realms.
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php
The 5 million number is for U.S. + Euro servers.
Yeah, I know. I should have said western audience. I made a mistake. Not only with what I said, but with how I understood you.
Bottom line is, yeah, China jumped up a bit because of the release of Lich.
Hey look, another wowkiller thread...
*pokes his eyes out*
I kinda hope WoW keeps gping and going......inagine all the wowtards set loose on the rest of the gameing world...
this, one of the few reasons i quited wow was its community so i hope they stay there