Reizlanze, well said! I think that's the whole point of modern gaming. Game must be fun to play, even you you repeat it. Most mmos has a philosophy that leveling is the main content of the game, and i believe that's wrong.
I like that their will be no monthly sub fee not because I can't afford one, but because it encourages the developers to make the best game possible instead of making the game that will keep you playing the longest. the big differences here are time sinks and grind. These will still be in GW2 but not in the same way. There will be time sinks that will keep you playing if they are fun or rewarding, but not time sinks like forcing you to walk/ride across vast distances when you just want to get to where your buddies are and play the game together.
Playing B2P is just like paying a monthly sub. Moreover, they will surely have stuff in item shops so in way you will end up spending more or less same amount as P2P.
If gw2's business model will be any alike as gw1, than that's so not true.
Well GW2 is bigger, better and more expensive project. I am sure they need to re coop the investment. Box sales alone won't do that.
Well, i expect more expensive boxes and larger number of expansions. I don't think they disapoint us with f2p model of item mall.
Here Gaenprayer's comparison of WoW v GW is illustrative: Reposted in below thread & linked once again because it's very interesting (!):
Quote Reizlander: So even if the game is "short", I can tell you straight-up that I've spent more time playing League of Legends, Street Fighter, Super Smash Brothers and Counter-Strike than the longest RPG or Level up content in an MMORPG that you can name.
Buy to play works just fine. The entire console industry works on the model and it has been making tons of money, even with long rpg's like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Borderlands, Fallout series, etc. Anet already said it cost the same to maintain this game as GW1 server wise. What you can expect from this game is lots of paid expansion every year, Microtransaction for new story content, etc. Just like Borderlands does with its downloadable content. P2P is actually a pretty dead model, really MMO's are the only genre left still using it, and Blizzard just abuses it.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I don't think they are looking for the P2P crowd. Its a different audience that has more patience, that wants longer and more thoughtful combat and play. GW2 is not inetrested in attracting the MMO crowd but rather the console crowd. That means more simplistic fast combat, eye candy and activities require less patience and thought. While the console simplified game play may be the future of MMOs there is still quite a difference between the two. Not only in style but in age maturity, manners, expecations and so much more. Console gameplay games like GW and MMOs are basically two diferent cultures. Trying to forcde the two togerhr under a P2P model would be a disaster.
I don't think they are looking for the P2P crowd. Its a different audience that has more patience, that wants longer and more thoughtful combat and play. GW2 is not inetrested in attracting the MMO crowd but rather the console crowd. That means more simplistic fast combat, eye candy and activities require less patience and thought. While the console simplified game play may be the future of MMOs there is still quite a difference between the two. Not only in style but in age maturity, manners, expecations and so much more. Console gameplay games like GW and MMOs are basically two diferent cultures. Trying to forcde the two togerhr under a P2P model would be a disaster.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
Ehh? clever. What makes you so sure it doesn't have that depth? it was you who mentioned it in your post, i even underlined it for you.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
One of the big selling points of GW2 is that it is B2P, if they suddenly switch to sub model, 1/3 or maybe more of the people interested in it won't buy it. ArenaNet would be stupid to make it a sub model. I'm sure GW2 cost more to make then GW1, but I'm also positive ArenaNet has looked into ways to pay for game, and still make profit, it's not like they are a bunch dumb people that've never made an MMO before, and before you start saying GW wasn't an MMO blah blah blah, well a good deal of the devs have worked on non-GW MMO's.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Your crystal ball is working to hard. Might wanna give it a break for a minute.
On a less sarcastic note. How the heck can you possibly know the "depth" of GW2. Also how do you define "depth". If you are defining "depth" as story...Anet are pros at telling stories. Need I point out GW1? If you define depth as leveling...um...leveling takes as long as you want it to take. If you wanna blow through leveling, and you are asking "wtf am I to do now", well it's your fault! Rather than rushing to get to end-game, enjoy the process. If you define depth as PvP...well we don't have enough information on that yet to really make a judgement.
I believe you get my point. "Depth" is purely based on opinions, and even if you could put a definition on depth, how the heck are we to know. None of us have actually played through the entire game. Those of us that have played it only played a demo. Most of them, if not all of them, have positive reviews. Obviously there are a few criticism from those that played the demo, which are a good thing. But overall, most agreed that the demo was good, and the game was on a right track.
Now that I'm done with your post...
Why are we still questioning this? I don't think Anet would be doing something that would be suicide. Therefore, if they say that they can do with with box sales, and vanity items (obviously what is in the item shop is still in discussion), then I'm sure they can do it. None of us know Anet's cost of production. Why not just let them do their job, and not criticize how their handling their business model. Be useful and criticize the videos we have so far. Offer some valid criticisms about the game, so Anet knows about the worries you have. If you are going to put your efforts into something like the business model, you aren't helping anything. Anet reads the message boards (mainly GW2G for GW2 discussions). I'm pretty sure that after multiple "Q&A" postings, and the When It's Ready, Anet is aware of community concerns.
The business model is NOT something for us to worry about.
Now to do the exact opposite of what I have just posted, and discuss the business model. I do not think their business model will not affect the level of content we have. If anything, it makes the more liable for the consumer. Regardless of how you look at it, the majority of their profits will come from box sales, as they are buy-to-play, like single player games. And like single player games, if people don't like the first game, no one will buy the sequel. Now if Anet does not hold up their end of the bargen, consumers will not buy the next box. Anet will NOT shoot themselves in the foot in regards to their largest source of income. If they released half-done job, Anet will be committing suicide. This is different with F2P games, as there consumers do not have the box sales that GW franchise does.
I'm sick of typing, that is all other than this:
TL;DR version: Stop worrying about the business model, as Anet knows what they are doing. They do not need a forum poster to tell them how to run their business.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
Ehh? clever. What makes you so sure it doesn't have that depth? it was you who mentioned it in your post, i even underlined it for you.
I played the demo, I saw how artificial and gimmicky the dynamic events are. The end game is 5 man pve.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Your crystal ball is working to hard. Might wanna give it a break for a minute.
On a less sarcastic note. How the heck can you possibly know the "depth" of GW2. Also how do you define "depth". If you are defining "depth" as story...Anet are pros at telling stories. Need I point out GW1? If you define depth as leveling...um...leveling takes as long as you want it to take. If you wanna blow through leveling, and you are asking "wtf am I to do now", well it's your fault! Rather than rushing to get to end-game, enjoy the process. If you define depth as PvP...well we don't have enough information on that yet to really make a judgement.
I believe you get my point. "Depth" is purely based on opinions, and even if you could put a definition on depth, how the heck are we to know. None of us have actually played through the entire game. Those of us that have played it only played a demo. Most of them, if not all of them, have positive reviews. Obviously there are a few criticism from those that played the demo, which are a good thing. But overall, most agreed that the demo was good, and the game was on a right track.
Now that I'm done with your post...
Why are we still questioning this? I don't think Anet would be doing something that would be suicide. Therefore, if they say that they can do with with box sales, and vanity items (obviously what is in the item shop is still in discussion), then I'm sure they can do it. None of us know Anet's cost of production. Why not just let them do their job, and not criticize how their handling their business model. Be useful and criticize the videos we have so far. Offer some valid criticisms about the game, so Anet knows about the worries you have. If you are going to put your efforts into something like the business model, you aren't helping anything. Anet reads the message boards (mainly GW2G for GW2 discussions). I'm pretty sure that after multiple "Q&A" postings, and the When It's Ready, Anet is aware of community concerns.
The business model is NOT something for us to worry about.
Now to do the exact opposite of what I have just posted, and discuss the business model. I do not think their business model will not affect the level of content we have. If anything, it makes the more liable for the consumer. Regardless of how you look at it, the majority of their profits will come from box sales, as they are buy-to-play, like single player games. And like single player games, if people don't like the first game, no one will buy the sequel. Now if Anet does not hold up their end of the bargen, consumers will not buy the next box. Anet will NOT shoot themselves in the foot in regards to their largest source of income. If they released half-done job, Anet will be committing suicide. This is different with F2P games, as there consumers do not have the box sales that GW franchise does.
I'm sick of typing, that is all other than this:
TL;DR version: Stop worrying about the business model, as Anet knows what they are doing. They do not need a forum poster to tell them how to run their business.
Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
Ehh? clever. What makes you so sure it doesn't have that depth? it was you who mentioned it in your post, i even underlined it for you.
I played the demo, I saw how artificial and gimmicky the dynamic events are. The end game is 5 man pve.
I got a chance to play demo too but even though demo does not provide enough insight regarding the whole game my impression was totally opposite of yours. Also dynamic event is not the whole game and what were you expecting out of GW2 end game? 12 man dungeon runs? well then blame yourself because you are ina wrong game with wrong expectations.
So that is depth for you? lol
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I don't think GW2 is going to lack depth. There is 80 levels to the game, and they mention 90 minutes per level (in the Q&A portion of this video at the 53+ minute mark). That could be over 100 hours to reach cap. Plus they have 5 races, that's several newbie zones worth of content, plus personal storylines that are affected by your actions and character creation. They also mention in that video needing to really add more content than a traditional MMO because not all the events are running at all times, they really need to put in more so that people will always be able to find one.
In addition, GW2 has a system (also described in that video), where people's levels scale down to the zone they're in so that they can't grief others by one-shotting things. This means you can take part in any of the lower level content at any time and be level appropriate while doing it. Think about the Shatterer event. That is a MID LEVEL raid encounter (they say that's not even one of the BIG dragons). In a traditional MMO, you can't have mid-level raids, because people would just outlevel them quickly or never be able to find a steady group for it due to different leveling rates.
I like the B2P model. Last month I felt like playing GW1, which I hadn't played in 5 years, didn't have the discs, didn't have anything. Downloaded the client, reset the password, emailed customer support to get through their new security question, and boom, I was playing again with no subscription, no hassle.
That's part of their whole draw. People who wouldn't otherwise buy the game are going to buy it because it's a one time deal. If you love it, great, you're set for a year or more and paid $60 instead of the $180+ you would pay for a traditional MMO. If you don't like it, oh well. It's another Dragon Age: Origins. And we all bought that and played that for one month, am I right?
My only complaint about it is not actually with the B2P model itself, it's that people are scared of it due to painful experiences with F2P games. I almost wish they'd do P2P and just charge a $5 subscription. They lose the bogus "F2P" stigma, get some long term revenue, and look like heroes for slashing the regular $15 subscription charge.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
The game doesn't seem to have a lot of depth to somehow work with a P2P option. And then it's the endgame. Not sure how GW2 endgame will work yet but most games do something to keep you logging back in even if it is in the form of grinding raids. Right now GW2 seems more of casual. Still too early to tell tho.
Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
So you consier yourself somekind of self appointed MMO guru? guess your experince is quite useless if you can't even realise that this game has always been about casual players. Only because it is not what you are looking for doesn't mean its bad or lack depth. Expericned MMO player my ass.
According to you what is depth? 12 man dungeon runs? endless end game grind? slow and grindy progression? all these activities have nothing to do with depth. There is no challenge in time sinks. A game can be casual and still deep and challenging. Seriously please don't use this 'i am experinced gamer' card again.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
Ehh? clever. What makes you so sure it doesn't have that depth? it was you who mentioned it in your post, i even underlined it for you.
1) I played the demo, I saw how artificial and gimmicky the dynamic events are. The end game is 5 man pve.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Your crystal ball is working to hard. Might wanna give it a break for a minute.
On a less sarcastic note. How the heck can you possibly know the "depth" of GW2. Also how do you define "depth". If you are defining "depth" as story...Anet are pros at telling stories. Need I point out GW1? If you define depth as leveling...um...leveling takes as long as you want it to take. If you wanna blow through leveling, and you are asking "wtf am I to do now", well it's your fault! Rather than rushing to get to end-game, enjoy the process. If you define depth as PvP...well we don't have enough information on that yet to really make a judgement.
I believe you get my point. "Depth" is purely based on opinions, and even if you could put a definition on depth, how the heck are we to know. None of us have actually played through the entire game. Those of us that have played it only played a demo. Most of them, if not all of them, have positive reviews. Obviously there are a few criticism from those that played the demo, which are a good thing. But overall, most agreed that the demo was good, and the game was on a right track.
Now that I'm done with your post...
Why are we still questioning this? I don't think Anet would be doing something that would be suicide. Therefore, if they say that they can do with with box sales, and vanity items (obviously what is in the item shop is still in discussion), then I'm sure they can do it. None of us know Anet's cost of production. Why not just let them do their job, and not criticize how their handling their business model. Be useful and criticize the videos we have so far. Offer some valid criticisms about the game, so Anet knows about the worries you have. If you are going to put your efforts into something like the business model, you aren't helping anything. Anet reads the message boards (mainly GW2G for GW2 discussions). I'm pretty sure that after multiple "Q&A" postings, and the When It's Ready, Anet is aware of community concerns.
The business model is NOT something for us to worry about.
Now to do the exact opposite of what I have just posted, and discuss the business model. I do not think their business model will not affect the level of content we have. If anything, it makes the more liable for the consumer. Regardless of how you look at it, the majority of their profits will come from box sales, as they are buy-to-play, like single player games. And like single player games, if people don't like the first game, no one will buy the sequel. Now if Anet does not hold up their end of the bargen, consumers will not buy the next box. Anet will NOT shoot themselves in the foot in regards to their largest source of income. If they released half-done job, Anet will be committing suicide. This is different with F2P games, as there consumers do not have the box sales that GW franchise does.
I'm sick of typing, that is all other than this:
TL;DR version: Stop worrying about the business model, as Anet knows what they are doing. They do not need a forum poster to tell them how to run their business.
2) Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
1) Obviously you are in the minority on this. I've seen nothing but raving reviews about the dynamic events. There were a few minor criticisms about it, such as the stars instead exclamation points over people's heads during a dynamic event.
2) Using past experiences on a new product is rather retarded. Rather than judging something based on standards set by past games, why not judge the game with a new set of standards...and wait till the game at least hits beta before you make any judgement calls.
Difficulty? You are judging difficulty based on a demo? What? A demo where they stated everything was dumbed down so everyone could experience as much as possible in the 40 minutes they were allowed the play?
What you should be doing with the demo is judging whether they actually lived up to what they were saying, and if you dislike something, use constructive criticism to let the know. NO developer reads "omg this sux! Will fail!" and do anything about. Rather than saying you dislike it and ending there, state your concerns about it. Maybe give your idea on how you think it can be improved. Complaining gets you know where...other than being considered a troll.
3) Are you judging progress by leveling? Um sorry to tell you but they are going for ease with leveling. They don't want leveling to be this daunting task that you must go through. If you ever played GW1, I can tell you that you weren't even half way through the game by the time you hit 20. I can tell you, at least before EotN hit and speed clears came about, missions were a challenge.
4) The most important question you should be asking about the game was, did it keep you entertained. If it did, then it did it's job. If it didn't then maybe the game is not for you. In which case you move on and find something else. You don't troll the forums like some person who's manhood is hurt by someone else like something you hate.
Yes 3 and 4 are not numbered on the post. They are just added points.
Why am I responding to a troll? I have no idea. I'm bored I guess.
I don't think they are looking for the P2P crowd. Its a different audience that has more patience, that wants longer and more thoughtful combat and play. GW2 is not inetrested in attracting the MMO crowd but rather the console crowd. That means more simplistic fast combat, eye candy and activities require less patience and thought. While the console simplified game play may be the future of MMOs there is still quite a difference between the two. Not only in style but in age maturity, manners, expecations and so much more. Console gameplay games like GW and MMOs are basically two diferent cultures. Trying to forcde the two togerhr under a P2P model would be a disaster.
Yes because we know Game mechanics are tied to a payment model.... This is a pretty crappy opionion just like Computers vs. console gamers being more hardcore, mature, etc. which is a joke only thing I think Computer does better is the keyboard and mouse, greatest controller ever. I played classic EQ and Really people pretend there was a lot more depth than their actually was. MMO's are actually quite simplistics games, only thing close to challenging is if you are a min maxer running spread sheets. which every competitive player does regardless of genre or whether it is on a console or computer. Seriously Meta in ever game I have ever played has come from exploiting flaw in the game. GW2 is also not a console game yet, there has been no confirm of a port as far as I know.
The only thing seperating either culture is their superiority complex for the other, that is it.
Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
So you consier yourself somekind of self appointed MMO guru? guess your experince is quite useless if you can't even realise that this game has always been about casual players. Only because it is not what you are looking for doesn't mean its bad or lack depth. Expericned MMO player my ass.
According to you what is depth? 12 man dungeon runs? endless end game grind? slow and grindy progression? all these activities have nothing to do with depth. There is no challenge in time sinks. A game can be casual and still deep and challenging. Seriously please don't use this 'i am experinced gamer' card again.
Where does it say I didn't realize that? I just said playing the demo reaffirmed that reality.
I already knew it was going to be a casualfest, because they are the same people that made gw1, and are trying to appeal to that same kind of player.
I am sorry if you are insecure that I may have more insight than you, and no a game can't be tailored to casuals and still be deep and challenging, because to casually game is to pick up and play for a short time and then leave.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Paradoxy
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Paradoxy
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
Ehh? clever. What makes you so sure it doesn't have that depth? it was you who mentioned it in your post, i even underlined it for you.
1) I played the demo, I saw how artificial and gimmicky the dynamic events are. The end game is 5 man pve.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Your crystal ball is working to hard. Might wanna give it a break for a minute.
On a less sarcastic note. How the heck can you possibly know the "depth" of GW2. Also how do you define "depth". If you are defining "depth" as story...Anet are pros at telling stories. Need I point out GW1? If you define depth as leveling...um...leveling takes as long as you want it to take. If you wanna blow through leveling, and you are asking "wtf am I to do now", well it's your fault! Rather than rushing to get to end-game, enjoy the process. If you define depth as PvP...well we don't have enough information on that yet to really make a judgement.
I believe you get my point. "Depth" is purely based on opinions, and even if you could put a definition on depth, how the heck are we to know. None of us have actually played through the entire game. Those of us that have played it only played a demo. Most of them, if not all of them, have positive reviews. Obviously there are a few criticism from those that played the demo, which are a good thing. But overall, most agreed that the demo was good, and the game was on a right track.
Now that I'm done with your post...
Why are we still questioning this? I don't think Anet would be doing something that would be suicide. Therefore, if they say that they can do with with box sales, and vanity items (obviously what is in the item shop is still in discussion), then I'm sure they can do it. None of us know Anet's cost of production. Why not just let them do their job, and not criticize how their handling their business model. Be useful and criticize the videos we have so far. Offer some valid criticisms about the game, so Anet knows about the worries you have. If you are going to put your efforts into something like the business model, you aren't helping anything. Anet reads the message boards (mainly GW2G for GW2 discussions). I'm pretty sure that after multiple "Q&A" postings, and the When It's Ready, Anet is aware of community concerns.
The business model is NOT something for us to worry about.
Now to do the exact opposite of what I have just posted, and discuss the business model. I do not think their business model will not affect the level of content we have. If anything, it makes the more liable for the consumer. Regardless of how you look at it, the majority of their profits will come from box sales, as they are buy-to-play, like single player games. And like single player games, if people don't like the first game, no one will buy the sequel. Now if Anet does not hold up their end of the bargen, consumers will not buy the next box. Anet will NOT shoot themselves in the foot in regards to their largest source of income. If they released half-done job, Anet will be committing suicide. This is different with F2P games, as there consumers do not have the box sales that GW franchise does.
I'm sick of typing, that is all other than this:
TL;DR version: Stop worrying about the business model, as Anet knows what they are doing. They do not need a forum poster to tell them how to run their business.
2) Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
1) Obviously you are in the minority on this. I've seen nothing but raving reviews about the dynamic events. There were a few minor criticisms about it, such as the stars instead exclamation points over people's heads during a dynamic event.
2) Using past experiences on a new product is rather retarded. Rather than judging something based on standards set by past games, why not judge the game with a new set of standards...and wait till the game at least hits beta before you make any judgement calls.
Difficulty? You are judging difficulty based on a demo? What? A demo where they stated everything was dumbed down so everyone could experience as much as possible in the 40 minutes they were allowed the play?
What you should be doing with the demo is judging whether they actually lived up to what they were saying, and if you dislike something, use constructive criticism to let the know. NO developer reads "omg this sux! Will fail!" and do anything about. Rather than saying you dislike it and ending there, state your concerns about it. Maybe give your idea on how you think it can be improved. Complaining gets you know where...other than being considered a troll.
3) Are you judging progress by leveling? Um sorry to tell you but they are going for ease with leveling. They don't want leveling to be this daunting task that you must go through. If you ever played GW1, I can tell you that you weren't even half way through the game by the time you hit 20. I can tell you, at least before EotN hit and speed clears came about, missions were a challenge.
4) The most important question you should be asking about the game was, did it keep you entertained. If it did, then it did it's job. If it didn't then maybe the game is not for you. In which case you move on and find something else. You don't troll the forums like some person who's manhood is hurt by someone else like something you hate.
Yes 3 and 4 are not numbered on the post. They are just added points.
Why am I responding to a troll? I have no idea. I'm bored I guess.
This is basically you getting defensive for the game because deeming the game casual friendly and easy has a negative connotation in your mind.
You want to believe the game is extremely challenging and that the most skilled gamers play it, that simply won't be the case with gw2.
You can say things are retarded all you want, which is childish btw, but the reality of it is there is a reason some of us MMO vets don't waste 60 bucks on bad games, while others get caught off guard and suckered into it. Because we know which games will be good and which will be bad.
Gw2 will be good the same way diablo games are good, but definitely not worth a monthly fee. Just doesn't have enough depth to support players constantly playing it and being willing to shell out money per month.
Really, this type of concern shouldn't concern you any longer. IF you played GW then you know very well that in terms of content and polished gameplay GW had it all and then some. The PvP is what kept me logging in over the last two years of my life with it, after finishing like 6 single player characters (that includes Ring of Fire missions) PvP was really the only thing that could hold my attention. But being in a guild for a two year period and creating your own builds, participating in GvG (yummtastic stuff there) all the time, the GvG games were constant... you always had a guild to fight. The game was so fluid and tactical, it was incredible. You could depend on the game to not have lag at all down to the very second (easily) and along with your skill selection you could define your build. My point is you don't have to worry about the content and the polish and the blah blah, GW is trustworthy and beautiful... really let this game capture that element you've been trying to find in MMO's for the last couple of years.
Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
So you consier yourself somekind of self appointed MMO guru? guess your experince is quite useless if you can't even realise that this game has always been about casual players. Only because it is not what you are looking for doesn't mean its bad or lack depth. Expericned MMO player my ass.
According to you what is depth? 12 man dungeon runs? endless end game grind? slow and grindy progression? all these activities have nothing to do with depth. There is no challenge in time sinks. A game can be casual and still deep and challenging. Seriously please don't use this 'i am experinced gamer' card again.
Where does it say I didn't realize that? I just said playing the demo reaffirmed that reality.
I already knew it was going to be a casualfest, because they are the same people that made gw1, and are trying to appeal to that same kind of player.
I am sorry if you are insecure that I may have more insight than you, and no a game can't be tailored to casuals and still be deep and challenging, because to casually game is to pick up and play for a short time and then leave.
Nah you only talk big and got nothing to back up your claim If i go by your logic then every F2P asian grinder has lots of depth. Time sink is depth for you...i get it. I am just calling on your bull, and no i am not insecure because you have no insight at all just over bloated sense of self worth.
Comments
Reizlanze, well said! I think that's the whole point of modern gaming. Game must be fun to play, even you you repeat it. Most mmos has a philosophy that leveling is the main content of the game, and i believe that's wrong.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
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I like that their will be no monthly sub fee not because I can't afford one, but because it encourages the developers to make the best game possible instead of making the game that will keep you playing the longest. the big differences here are time sinks and grind. These will still be in GW2 but not in the same way. There will be time sinks that will keep you playing if they are fun or rewarding, but not time sinks like forcing you to walk/ride across vast distances when you just want to get to where your buddies are and play the game together.
Here Gaenprayer's comparison of WoW v GW is illustrative: Reposted in below thread & linked once again because it's very interesting (!):
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/295706/page/1
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Buy to play works just fine. The entire console industry works on the model and it has been making tons of money, even with long rpg's like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Borderlands, Fallout series, etc. Anet already said it cost the same to maintain this game as GW1 server wise. What you can expect from this game is lots of paid expansion every year, Microtransaction for new story content, etc. Just like Borderlands does with its downloadable content. P2P is actually a pretty dead model, really MMO's are the only genre left still using it, and Blizzard just abuses it.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Well here's a familiar name. Haven't seen you in a while Mr. Objective. ^_^
Yep not everyone f5s gw2 sites all day every day. There are many promising MMOs to keep an eye out for.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
How are you so sure about it?
I don't think they are looking for the P2P crowd. Its a different audience that has more patience, that wants longer and more thoughtful combat and play. GW2 is not inetrested in attracting the MMO crowd but rather the console crowd. That means more simplistic fast combat, eye candy and activities require less patience and thought. While the console simplified game play may be the future of MMOs there is still quite a difference between the two. Not only in style but in age maturity, manners, expecations and so much more. Console gameplay games like GW and MMOs are basically two diferent cultures. Trying to forcde the two togerhr under a P2P model would be a disaster.
Pretty accurate.
60 dollars a month sounds fair.
Ehh? clever. What makes you so sure it doesn't have that depth? it was you who mentioned it in your post, i even underlined it for you.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
One of the big selling points of GW2 is that it is B2P, if they suddenly switch to sub model, 1/3 or maybe more of the people interested in it won't buy it. ArenaNet would be stupid to make it a sub model. I'm sure GW2 cost more to make then GW1, but I'm also positive ArenaNet has looked into ways to pay for game, and still make profit, it's not like they are a bunch dumb people that've never made an MMO before, and before you start saying GW wasn't an MMO blah blah blah, well a good deal of the devs have worked on non-GW MMO's.
-I want a Platformer MMO
Your crystal ball is working to hard. Might wanna give it a break for a minute.
On a less sarcastic note. How the heck can you possibly know the "depth" of GW2. Also how do you define "depth". If you are defining "depth" as story...Anet are pros at telling stories. Need I point out GW1? If you define depth as leveling...um...leveling takes as long as you want it to take. If you wanna blow through leveling, and you are asking "wtf am I to do now", well it's your fault! Rather than rushing to get to end-game, enjoy the process. If you define depth as PvP...well we don't have enough information on that yet to really make a judgement.
I believe you get my point. "Depth" is purely based on opinions, and even if you could put a definition on depth, how the heck are we to know. None of us have actually played through the entire game. Those of us that have played it only played a demo. Most of them, if not all of them, have positive reviews. Obviously there are a few criticism from those that played the demo, which are a good thing. But overall, most agreed that the demo was good, and the game was on a right track.
Now that I'm done with your post...
Why are we still questioning this? I don't think Anet would be doing something that would be suicide. Therefore, if they say that they can do with with box sales, and vanity items (obviously what is in the item shop is still in discussion), then I'm sure they can do it. None of us know Anet's cost of production. Why not just let them do their job, and not criticize how their handling their business model. Be useful and criticize the videos we have so far. Offer some valid criticisms about the game, so Anet knows about the worries you have. If you are going to put your efforts into something like the business model, you aren't helping anything. Anet reads the message boards (mainly GW2G for GW2 discussions). I'm pretty sure that after multiple "Q&A" postings, and the When It's Ready, Anet is aware of community concerns.
The business model is NOT something for us to worry about.
Now to do the exact opposite of what I have just posted, and discuss the business model. I do not think their business model will not affect the level of content we have. If anything, it makes the more liable for the consumer. Regardless of how you look at it, the majority of their profits will come from box sales, as they are buy-to-play, like single player games. And like single player games, if people don't like the first game, no one will buy the sequel. Now if Anet does not hold up their end of the bargen, consumers will not buy the next box. Anet will NOT shoot themselves in the foot in regards to their largest source of income. If they released half-done job, Anet will be committing suicide. This is different with F2P games, as there consumers do not have the box sales that GW franchise does.
I'm sick of typing, that is all other than this:
TL;DR version: Stop worrying about the business model, as Anet knows what they are doing. They do not need a forum poster to tell them how to run their business.
I played the demo, I saw how artificial and gimmicky the dynamic events are. The end game is 5 man pve.
Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
I got a chance to play demo too but even though demo does not provide enough insight regarding the whole game my impression was totally opposite of yours. Also dynamic event is not the whole game and what were you expecting out of GW2 end game? 12 man dungeon runs? well then blame yourself because you are ina wrong game with wrong expectations.
So that is depth for you? lol
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I don't think GW2 is going to lack depth. There is 80 levels to the game, and they mention 90 minutes per level (in the Q&A portion of this video at the 53+ minute mark). That could be over 100 hours to reach cap. Plus they have 5 races, that's several newbie zones worth of content, plus personal storylines that are affected by your actions and character creation. They also mention in that video needing to really add more content than a traditional MMO because not all the events are running at all times, they really need to put in more so that people will always be able to find one.
In addition, GW2 has a system (also described in that video), where people's levels scale down to the zone they're in so that they can't grief others by one-shotting things. This means you can take part in any of the lower level content at any time and be level appropriate while doing it. Think about the Shatterer event. That is a MID LEVEL raid encounter (they say that's not even one of the BIG dragons). In a traditional MMO, you can't have mid-level raids, because people would just outlevel them quickly or never be able to find a steady group for it due to different leveling rates.
I like the B2P model. Last month I felt like playing GW1, which I hadn't played in 5 years, didn't have the discs, didn't have anything. Downloaded the client, reset the password, emailed customer support to get through their new security question, and boom, I was playing again with no subscription, no hassle.
That's part of their whole draw. People who wouldn't otherwise buy the game are going to buy it because it's a one time deal. If you love it, great, you're set for a year or more and paid $60 instead of the $180+ you would pay for a traditional MMO. If you don't like it, oh well. It's another Dragon Age: Origins. And we all bought that and played that for one month, am I right?
My only complaint about it is not actually with the B2P model itself, it's that people are scared of it due to painful experiences with F2P games. I almost wish they'd do P2P and just charge a $5 subscription. They lose the bogus "F2P" stigma, get some long term revenue, and look like heroes for slashing the regular $15 subscription charge.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
The game doesn't seem to have a lot of depth to somehow work with a P2P option. And then it's the endgame. Not sure how GW2 endgame will work yet but most games do something to keep you logging back in even if it is in the form of grinding raids. Right now GW2 seems more of casual. Still too early to tell tho.
So you consier yourself somekind of self appointed MMO guru? guess your experince is quite useless if you can't even realise that this game has always been about casual players. Only because it is not what you are looking for doesn't mean its bad or lack depth. Expericned MMO player my ass.
According to you what is depth? 12 man dungeon runs? endless end game grind? slow and grindy progression? all these activities have nothing to do with depth. There is no challenge in time sinks. A game can be casual and still deep and challenging. Seriously please don't use this 'i am experinced gamer' card again.
Bite Me
1) Obviously you are in the minority on this. I've seen nothing but raving reviews about the dynamic events. There were a few minor criticisms about it, such as the stars instead exclamation points over people's heads during a dynamic event.
2) Using past experiences on a new product is rather retarded. Rather than judging something based on standards set by past games, why not judge the game with a new set of standards...and wait till the game at least hits beta before you make any judgement calls.
Difficulty? You are judging difficulty based on a demo? What? A demo where they stated everything was dumbed down so everyone could experience as much as possible in the 40 minutes they were allowed the play?
What you should be doing with the demo is judging whether they actually lived up to what they were saying, and if you dislike something, use constructive criticism to let the know. NO developer reads "omg this sux! Will fail!" and do anything about. Rather than saying you dislike it and ending there, state your concerns about it. Maybe give your idea on how you think it can be improved. Complaining gets you know where...other than being considered a troll.
3) Are you judging progress by leveling? Um sorry to tell you but they are going for ease with leveling. They don't want leveling to be this daunting task that you must go through. If you ever played GW1, I can tell you that you weren't even half way through the game by the time you hit 20. I can tell you, at least before EotN hit and speed clears came about, missions were a challenge.
4) The most important question you should be asking about the game was, did it keep you entertained. If it did, then it did it's job. If it didn't then maybe the game is not for you. In which case you move on and find something else. You don't troll the forums like some person who's manhood is hurt by someone else like something you hate.
Yes 3 and 4 are not numbered on the post. They are just added points.
Why am I responding to a troll? I have no idea. I'm bored I guess.
Yes because we know Game mechanics are tied to a payment model.... This is a pretty crappy opionion just like Computers vs. console gamers being more hardcore, mature, etc. which is a joke only thing I think Computer does better is the keyboard and mouse, greatest controller ever. I played classic EQ and Really people pretend there was a lot more depth than their actually was. MMO's are actually quite simplistics games, only thing close to challenging is if you are a min maxer running spread sheets. which every competitive player does regardless of genre or whether it is on a console or computer. Seriously Meta in ever game I have ever played has come from exploiting flaw in the game. GW2 is also not a console game yet, there has been no confirm of a port as far as I know.
The only thing seperating either culture is their superiority complex for the other, that is it.
Where does it say I didn't realize that? I just said playing the demo reaffirmed that reality.
I already knew it was going to be a casualfest, because they are the same people that made gw1, and are trying to appeal to that same kind of player.
I am sorry if you are insecure that I may have more insight than you, and no a game can't be tailored to casuals and still be deep and challenging, because to casually game is to pick up and play for a short time and then leave.
This is basically you getting defensive for the game because deeming the game casual friendly and easy has a negative connotation in your mind.
You want to believe the game is extremely challenging and that the most skilled gamers play it, that simply won't be the case with gw2.
You can say things are retarded all you want, which is childish btw, but the reality of it is there is a reason some of us MMO vets don't waste 60 bucks on bad games, while others get caught off guard and suckered into it. Because we know which games will be good and which will be bad.
Gw2 will be good the same way diablo games are good, but definitely not worth a monthly fee. Just doesn't have enough depth to support players constantly playing it and being willing to shell out money per month.
Really, this type of concern shouldn't concern you any longer. IF you played GW then you know very well that in terms of content and polished gameplay GW had it all and then some. The PvP is what kept me logging in over the last two years of my life with it, after finishing like 6 single player characters (that includes Ring of Fire missions) PvP was really the only thing that could hold my attention. But being in a guild for a two year period and creating your own builds, participating in GvG (yummtastic stuff there) all the time, the GvG games were constant... you always had a guild to fight. The game was so fluid and tactical, it was incredible. You could depend on the game to not have lag at all down to the very second (easily) and along with your skill selection you could define your build. My point is you don't have to worry about the content and the polish and the blah blah, GW is trustworthy and beautiful... really let this game capture that element you've been trying to find in MMO's for the last couple of years.
Nah you only talk big and got nothing to back up your claim If i go by your logic then every F2P asian grinder has lots of depth. Time sink is depth for you...i get it. I am just calling on your bull, and no i am not insecure because you have no insight at all just over bloated sense of self worth.
Bite Me