Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
In that video I just linked, also in the Q&A, the developer addresses the issue of difficulty. The game is geared towards groups of random people being able to band together and win events without really talking (though there is a lot of cross profession combos that hopefully people will visually pick up on). He suggests that if you do have a tight group that does want a challenge, you can always head into the next area and do harder events that will require you to work together cohesively. Also in that video, the designer mentions how there are more challenging higher level events.
Also I believe that the dungeons will provide a lot of the challenge. Here is an excellent article where they mention how 2 warriors and a ranger could beat an encounter that 5 man groups had trouble with, just by really being good at their classes. The point here is that even if the game is generally easy, there are challenges there to find if you decide you want them.
The other thing is that I think the combat has a lot of depth. Casting while moving, dodging attacks. One thing I absolutely love is this shield stance video. That shield stance (which I believe involves holding down the button), not only keeps attacks from hitting you, but also people behind you. That article I linked touches on how awesome warriors can be in PVP by being able to adopt either harassing or defensive roles, depending on the situation.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
In that video I just linked, also in the Q&A, the developer addresses the issue of difficulty. The game is geared towards groups of random people being able to band together and win events without really talking (though there is a lot of cross profession combos that hopefully people will visually pick up on). He suggests that if you do have a tight group that does want a challenge, you can always head into the next area and do harder events that will require you to work together cohesively. Also in that video, the designer mentions how there are more challenging higher level events.
Also I believe that the dungeons will provide a lot of the challenge. Here is an excellent article where they mention how 2 warriors and a ranger could beat an encounter that 5 man groups had trouble with, just by really being good at their classes. The point here is that even if the game is generally easy, there are challenges there to find if you decide you want them.
The other thing is that I think the combat has a lot of depth. Casting while moving, dodging attacks. One thing I absolutely love is this shield stance video. That shield stance (which I believe involves holding down the button), not only keeps attacks from hitting you, but also people behind you. That article I linked touches on how awesome warriors can be in PVP by being able to adopt either harassing or defensive roles, depending on the situation.
Yea they also had a manifesto where they said you would see centaurs destroying a bridge, and what you actually saw was centaurs running past some scripted tripwire and the bridge magically breaking a part.
They would need to increase the difficulty about 50x from what was at the demo to even begin to be worthy of p2p.
GW2 will be easier than wow, that is not a bad thing, it just doesn't cater to everyone.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
I think RobertDinh does raise a good point: Some players will find GW2 feels too short/easy in the PvE game.
Problem has been it sounds like the less informed contention that "f2p (sic: "b") either can't make enough content without cash shop and/or sub without going out of business if it does".
gw did well with the b2p model and the core design of gw2 is built around it and arenanet seem aware that ripping off customers <> repeat business which is essential with expansions so that's all to be said about that. Finally gw2 appears most anticipated mmo that argument can be safely ignored.
What we do "know":
Average Levelling ~ 90mins (- starter levels) => approx. 100 Hrs gameplay for PvE per avatar. This is for a casual player.
A lot of players, could burning through the content finding insufficient challenge in the PvE game too fast/easy and therefore the content may feel to small.
What DOES make GW2 a seemingly attractive purchase:
(2) Meta-game: side-kick, dungeons, alts, dynamic events may compensate the above somewhat.
(3) b2p, means you can play another p2p MMO atst.
(4) Variability of longevity on the PvP modes (big x-factor)
(5) Higher frequency of expansions/quality content.
The absolute time of playing an avatar from lvl 0-80 may be shorter than other mmos but the quality of content and the content/cash ratio and the optional gamemodes could outweigh for the lack of absolute time and/or grind or filler-content involved in completion/challenge in the PvE game.
We don't know yet but as a casual gamer, it will be sufficient for me to buy/play gw2 alone I more than suspect. ^ ^
Really, this type of concern shouldn't concern you any longer. IF you played GW then you know very well that in terms of content and polished gameplay GW had it all and then some. The PvP is what kept me logging in over the last two years of my life with it, after finishing like 6 single player characters (that includes Ring of Fire missions) PvP was really the only thing that could hold my attention. But being in a guild for a two year period and creating your own builds, participating in GvG (yummtastic stuff there) all the time, the GvG games were constant... you always had a guild to fight. The game was so fluid and tactical, it was incredible. You could depend on the game to not have lag at all down to the very second (easily) and along with your skill selection you could define your build. My point is you don't have to worry about the content and the polish and the blah blah, GW is trustworthy and beautiful... really let this game capture that element you've been trying to find in MMO's for the last couple of years.
GW end-game was more than poor. The only thing to do was GvG over and over again and even that was destroyed when PvX wiki came at 2007.
Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
So you consier yourself somekind of self appointed MMO guru? guess your experince is quite useless if you can't even realise that this game has always been about casual players. Only because it is not what you are looking for doesn't mean its bad or lack depth. Expericned MMO player my ass.
According to you what is depth? 12 man dungeon runs? endless end game grind? slow and grindy progression? all these activities have nothing to do with depth. There is no challenge in time sinks. A game can be casual and still deep and challenging. Seriously please don't use this 'i am experinced gamer' card again.
Where does it say I didn't realize that? I just said playing the demo reaffirmed that reality.
I already knew it was going to be a casualfest, because they are the same people that made gw1, and are trying to appeal to that same kind of player.
I am sorry if you are insecure that I may have more insight than you, and no a game can't be tailored to casuals and still be deep and challenging, because to casually game is to pick up and play for a short time and then leave.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Paradoxy
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Paradoxy
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
Ehh? clever. What makes you so sure it doesn't have that depth? it was you who mentioned it in your post, i even underlined it for you.
1) I played the demo, I saw how artificial and gimmicky the dynamic events are. The end game is 5 man pve.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Your crystal ball is working to hard. Might wanna give it a break for a minute.
On a less sarcastic note. How the heck can you possibly know the "depth" of GW2. Also how do you define "depth". If you are defining "depth" as story...Anet are pros at telling stories. Need I point out GW1? If you define depth as leveling...um...leveling takes as long as you want it to take. If you wanna blow through leveling, and you are asking "wtf am I to do now", well it's your fault! Rather than rushing to get to end-game, enjoy the process. If you define depth as PvP...well we don't have enough information on that yet to really make a judgement.
I believe you get my point. "Depth" is purely based on opinions, and even if you could put a definition on depth, how the heck are we to know. None of us have actually played through the entire game. Those of us that have played it only played a demo. Most of them, if not all of them, have positive reviews. Obviously there are a few criticism from those that played the demo, which are a good thing. But overall, most agreed that the demo was good, and the game was on a right track.
Now that I'm done with your post...
Why are we still questioning this? I don't think Anet would be doing something that would be suicide. Therefore, if they say that they can do with with box sales, and vanity items (obviously what is in the item shop is still in discussion), then I'm sure they can do it. None of us know Anet's cost of production. Why not just let them do their job, and not criticize how their handling their business model. Be useful and criticize the videos we have so far. Offer some valid criticisms about the game, so Anet knows about the worries you have. If you are going to put your efforts into something like the business model, you aren't helping anything. Anet reads the message boards (mainly GW2G for GW2 discussions). I'm pretty sure that after multiple "Q&A" postings, and the When It's Ready, Anet is aware of community concerns.
The business model is NOT something for us to worry about.
Now to do the exact opposite of what I have just posted, and discuss the business model. I do not think their business model will not affect the level of content we have. If anything, it makes the more liable for the consumer. Regardless of how you look at it, the majority of their profits will come from box sales, as they are buy-to-play, like single player games. And like single player games, if people don't like the first game, no one will buy the sequel. Now if Anet does not hold up their end of the bargen, consumers will not buy the next box. Anet will NOT shoot themselves in the foot in regards to their largest source of income. If they released half-done job, Anet will be committing suicide. This is different with F2P games, as there consumers do not have the box sales that GW franchise does.
I'm sick of typing, that is all other than this:
TL;DR version: Stop worrying about the business model, as Anet knows what they are doing. They do not need a forum poster to tell them how to run their business.
2) Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
1) Obviously you are in the minority on this. I've seen nothing but raving reviews about the dynamic events. There were a few minor criticisms about it, such as the stars instead exclamation points over people's heads during a dynamic event.
2) Using past experiences on a new product is rather retarded. Rather than judging something based on standards set by past games, why not judge the game with a new set of standards...and wait till the game at least hits beta before you make any judgement calls.
Difficulty? You are judging difficulty based on a demo? What? A demo where they stated everything was dumbed down so everyone could experience as much as possible in the 40 minutes they were allowed the play?
What you should be doing with the demo is judging whether they actually lived up to what they were saying, and if you dislike something, use constructive criticism to let the know. NO developer reads "omg this sux! Will fail!" and do anything about. Rather than saying you dislike it and ending there, state your concerns about it. Maybe give your idea on how you think it can be improved. Complaining gets you know where...other than being considered a troll.
3) Are you judging progress by leveling? Um sorry to tell you but they are going for ease with leveling. They don't want leveling to be this daunting task that you must go through. If you ever played GW1, I can tell you that you weren't even half way through the game by the time you hit 20. I can tell you, at least before EotN hit and speed clears came about, missions were a challenge.
4) The most important question you should be asking about the game was, did it keep you entertained. If it did, then it did it's job. If it didn't then maybe the game is not for you. In which case you move on and find something else. You don't troll the forums like some person who's manhood is hurt by someone else like something you hate.
Yes 3 and 4 are not numbered on the post. They are just added points.
Why am I responding to a troll? I have no idea. I'm bored I guess.
This is basically you getting defensive for the game because deeming the game casual friendly and easy has a negative connotation in your mind.
You want to believe the game is extremely challenging and that the most skilled gamers play it, that simply won't be the case with gw2.
You can say things are retarded all you want, which is childish btw, but the reality of it is there is a reason some of us MMO vets don't waste 60 bucks on bad games, while others get caught off guard and suckered into it. Because we know which games will be good and which will be bad.
Gw2 will be good the same way diablo games are good, but definitely not worth a monthly fee. Just doesn't have enough depth to support players constantly playing it and being willing to shell out money per month.
Hmm...your calling me childish, when you are directly attacking me? On a forum? For disagreeing with you? Kinda hypocritical i think.
Did I ever say that anything about extremely challenging that the most skilled gamers play it? No. Rather than twisting words to the way you want, do something productive. Yes they are appealing to casuals more...which btw are still a viable market. But Anet has also stated that there will be a fair amount of challenges for those who want more out of their game. What those are and how those play out have yet to be seen. From what I've read from PC Gamer, dungeons are challenging, yes even for a 5 man.
If you don't want to buy the game then what ever. But what does "MMO Vet" have to do with buying 'bad games'. MMO vet merely means you've played many MMOs. It does not make your opinion on a game the be-all, end all of quality of the game. If the game is not for you, then leave it be. Obviously by being here, you are interested in GW2. If you weren't interested, you would completely pass this board over and go onto something else.
Also I should add: what's worth a monthly fee is also subjective. What you might not pay for, others would gladly hand over money for. Read the above.
Thanks and I am done. When you post something worth my time, then I will gladly have a discussion with you. Until then, have a good day.
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
I think RobertDinh does raise a good point: Some players will find GW2 feels too short/easy in the PvE game.
Problem has been it sounds like the less informed contention that "f2p (sic: "b") either can't make enough content without cash shop and/or sub without going out of business if it does".
gw did well with the b2p model and the core design of gw2 is built around it and arenanet seem aware that ripping off customers <> repeat business which is essential with expansions so that's all to be said about that. Finally gw2 appears most anticipated mmo that argument can be safely ignored.
What we do "know":
Average Levelling ~ 90mins (- starter levels) => approx. 100 Hrs gameplay for PvE per avatar. This is for a casual player.
A lot of players, could burning through the content finding insufficient challenge in the PvE game too fast/easy and therefore the content may feel to small.
What DOES make GW2 a seemingly attractive purchase:
(2) Meta-game: side-kick, dungeons, alts, dynamic events may compensate the above somewhat.
(3) b2p, means you can play another p2p MMO atst.
(4) Variability of longevity on the PvP modes (big x-factor)
(5) Higher frequency of expansions/quality content.
The absolute time of playing an avatar from lvl 0-80 may be shorter than other mmos but the quality of content and the content/cash ratio and the optional gamemodes could outweigh for the lack of absolute time and/or grind or filler-content involved in completion/challenge in the PvE game.
We don't know yet but as a casual gamer, it will be sufficient for me to buy/play gw2 alone I more than suspect. ^ ^
Yep as I said before it's worth buying, it just doesn't have enough content to be worth paying 15 bucks a month for years.
People can argue against that but the reality of it is, look at WoW, they bombard you with content, there are dry spells here and there when they give people time to catch up in progression, but anet simply can not keep up with WoW in content patches. And why would we even expect them to, they simply aren't as well-staffed/funded as blizzard.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Nikkita
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
So you consier yourself somekind of self appointed MMO guru? guess your experince is quite useless if you can't even realise that this game has always been about casual players. Only because it is not what you are looking for doesn't mean its bad or lack depth. Expericned MMO player my ass.
According to you what is depth? 12 man dungeon runs? endless end game grind? slow and grindy progression? all these activities have nothing to do with depth. There is no challenge in time sinks. A game can be casual and still deep and challenging. Seriously please don't use this 'i am experinced gamer' card again.
Where does it say I didn't realize that? I just said playing the demo reaffirmed that reality.
I already knew it was going to be a casualfest, because they are the same people that made gw1, and are trying to appeal to that same kind of player.
I am sorry if you are insecure that I may have more insight than you, and no a game can't be tailored to casuals and still be deep and challenging, because to casually game is to pick up and play for a short time and then leave.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Paradoxy
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Paradoxy
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Please explain. it surely has more content and depth than so called P2P like Warhammer Online, STO and FFXIV for example.
How are you so sure about it?
Ehh? clever. What makes you so sure it doesn't have that depth? it was you who mentioned it in your post, i even underlined it for you.
1) I played the demo, I saw how artificial and gimmicky the dynamic events are. The end game is 5 man pve.
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Becoming a P2P game would be a terrible idea for gw2. The game simply does not have enough depth to support that payment model.
It will be a good side game and worth the box price for sure, but having to pay monthly for it wouldn't be worth it whatsoever.
Your crystal ball is working to hard. Might wanna give it a break for a minute.
On a less sarcastic note. How the heck can you possibly know the "depth" of GW2. Also how do you define "depth". If you are defining "depth" as story...Anet are pros at telling stories. Need I point out GW1? If you define depth as leveling...um...leveling takes as long as you want it to take. If you wanna blow through leveling, and you are asking "wtf am I to do now", well it's your fault! Rather than rushing to get to end-game, enjoy the process. If you define depth as PvP...well we don't have enough information on that yet to really make a judgement.
I believe you get my point. "Depth" is purely based on opinions, and even if you could put a definition on depth, how the heck are we to know. None of us have actually played through the entire game. Those of us that have played it only played a demo. Most of them, if not all of them, have positive reviews. Obviously there are a few criticism from those that played the demo, which are a good thing. But overall, most agreed that the demo was good, and the game was on a right track.
Now that I'm done with your post...
Why are we still questioning this? I don't think Anet would be doing something that would be suicide. Therefore, if they say that they can do with with box sales, and vanity items (obviously what is in the item shop is still in discussion), then I'm sure they can do it. None of us know Anet's cost of production. Why not just let them do their job, and not criticize how their handling their business model. Be useful and criticize the videos we have so far. Offer some valid criticisms about the game, so Anet knows about the worries you have. If you are going to put your efforts into something like the business model, you aren't helping anything. Anet reads the message boards (mainly GW2G for GW2 discussions). I'm pretty sure that after multiple "Q&A" postings, and the When It's Ready, Anet is aware of community concerns.
The business model is NOT something for us to worry about.
Now to do the exact opposite of what I have just posted, and discuss the business model. I do not think their business model will not affect the level of content we have. If anything, it makes the more liable for the consumer. Regardless of how you look at it, the majority of their profits will come from box sales, as they are buy-to-play, like single player games. And like single player games, if people don't like the first game, no one will buy the sequel. Now if Anet does not hold up their end of the bargen, consumers will not buy the next box. Anet will NOT shoot themselves in the foot in regards to their largest source of income. If they released half-done job, Anet will be committing suicide. This is different with F2P games, as there consumers do not have the box sales that GW franchise does.
I'm sick of typing, that is all other than this:
TL;DR version: Stop worrying about the business model, as Anet knows what they are doing. They do not need a forum poster to tell them how to run their business.
2) Some of us with a ton of mmo experience can tell pretty early when games are fail or hits. We use our experience from past games to understand the potential of each mechanic.
I can tell you now after playing the demo it only reaffirmed the reality that GW2 is meant to cater to extremely casual players who do not want to be challenged to any relevent degree.
I'ts going to be a game where you are guaranteed to progress with ease and feel good about it.
1) Obviously you are in the minority on this. I've seen nothing but raving reviews about the dynamic events. There were a few minor criticisms about it, such as the stars instead exclamation points over people's heads during a dynamic event.
2) Using past experiences on a new product is rather retarded. Rather than judging something based on standards set by past games, why not judge the game with a new set of standards...and wait till the game at least hits beta before you make any judgement calls.
Difficulty? You are judging difficulty based on a demo? What? A demo where they stated everything was dumbed down so everyone could experience as much as possible in the 40 minutes they were allowed the play?
What you should be doing with the demo is judging whether they actually lived up to what they were saying, and if you dislike something, use constructive criticism to let the know. NO developer reads "omg this sux! Will fail!" and do anything about. Rather than saying you dislike it and ending there, state your concerns about it. Maybe give your idea on how you think it can be improved. Complaining gets you know where...other than being considered a troll.
3) Are you judging progress by leveling? Um sorry to tell you but they are going for ease with leveling. They don't want leveling to be this daunting task that you must go through. If you ever played GW1, I can tell you that you weren't even half way through the game by the time you hit 20. I can tell you, at least before EotN hit and speed clears came about, missions were a challenge.
4) The most important question you should be asking about the game was, did it keep you entertained. If it did, then it did it's job. If it didn't then maybe the game is not for you. In which case you move on and find something else. You don't troll the forums like some person who's manhood is hurt by someone else like something you hate.
Yes 3 and 4 are not numbered on the post. They are just added points.
Why am I responding to a troll? I have no idea. I'm bored I guess.
This is basically you getting defensive for the game because deeming the game casual friendly and easy has a negative connotation in your mind.
You want to believe the game is extremely challenging and that the most skilled gamers play it, that simply won't be the case with gw2.
You can say things are retarded all you want, which is childish btw, but the reality of it is there is a reason some of us MMO vets don't waste 60 bucks on bad games, while others get caught off guard and suckered into it. Because we know which games will be good and which will be bad.
Gw2 will be good the same way diablo games are good, but definitely not worth a monthly fee. Just doesn't have enough depth to support players constantly playing it and being willing to shell out money per month.
Hmm...your calling me childish, when you are directly attacking me? On a forum? For disagreeing with you? Kinda hypocritical i think.
Did I ever say that anything about extremely challenging that the most skilled gamers play it? No. Rather than twisting words to the way you want, do something productive. Yes they are appealing to casuals more...which btw are still a viable market. But Anet has also stated that there will be a fair amount of challenges for those who want more out of their game. What those are and how those play out have yet to be seen. From what I've read from PC Gamer, dungeons are challenging, yes even for a 5 man.
If you don't want to buy the game then what ever. But what does "MMO Vet" have to do with buying 'bad games'. MMO vet merely means you've played many MMOs. It does not make your opinion on a game the be-all, end all of quality of the game. If the game is not for you, then leave it be. Obviously by being here, you are interested in GW2. If you weren't interested, you would completely pass this board over and go onto something else.
Also I should add: what's worth a monthly fee is also subjective. What you might not pay for, others would gladly hand over money for. Read the above.
Thanks and I am done. When you post something worth my time, then I will gladly have a discussion with you. Until then, have a good day.
I called the act of calling objective reasoning "retarded" childish. I didn't say you were childish as a person.
I think you should take a step back and carefully read what is posted before commenting, you seem like you are on-tilt and taking things out of context.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Actually they said that they want people to be able to share in the joy of persistent world content by easily being a part of the same fight and triumphing over the "challenge" together.
They are not tuning content for raids that are on vent coordinating.
Also there is no wiping in GW2, you can res people like nothing.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Actually they said that they want people to be able to share in the joy of persistent world content by easily being a part of the same fight and triumphing over the "challenge" together.
They are not tuning content for raids that are on vent coordinating.
Also there is no wiping in GW2, you can res people like nothing.
No actually they did say you will wipe if you aren't coordinated. I am not talking shatter here, even though he was nerfed for the Demo. I am talking Elder dragons here and they did say if you are not all coordinated you will die. Dynamic events aren't designed to always be beat with ease, if you don't win to bad, you can keep dying until you figure out how not to lose.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
Lastly, you have serious reading comprehension problems. You take everything devs say out of context or twist its meaning to suit your argument. really pathetic if you ask me.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
That's because you lack the proper experience to understand what I am saying.
A game which has endgame solely dependent on 5man dungeons will not have complex endgame.
Yea they also had a manifesto where they said you would see centaurs destroying a bridge, and what you actually saw was centaurs running past some scripted tripwire and the bridge magically breaking a part.
They would need to increase the difficulty about 50x from what was at the demo to even begin to be worthy of p2p.
GW2 will be easier than wow, that is not a bad thing, it just doesn't cater to everyone.
I have noticed the same thing, that even with the midrange Charr gameplay, that the elementalist pretty much blows mobs away. All I can say is that the game is still in alpha and that is the kind of thing that is hopefully getting tweaked. I don't think WoW has very much difficulty in the world either. I've only played EQ2X and LOTRO free and neither of those were difficult at all (though it's very possible you're onto something and that they are free now because they weren't difficult enough to hold interest).
One thing though is that in a traditional MMO, the player has a huge advantage because in 99% of encounters, the player initiates it. The mob has already gotten wrecked by the Pyroblast, Assassinate, or has 3 dots on it before it even reacts. Mobs might have to be tougher just to compensate for that disadvantage.
The dynamic system might have some cheese to it (I noticed the "tripwire" too), but it allows them to do things like have mobs spawn and rush in to complete their objectives (burning hay or whatever) whether players are there or not. That lack of control over initiating the contact gives the player less of an advantage. When something like that happens in a traditional MMO, it's just 3 mobs appearing right in front of you out of nowhere. While I do wish the dynamic content had more permanence in the world than it probably will, I do think it's a fantastic innovative leap.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I don't think they are looking for the P2P crowd. Its a different audience that has more patience, that wants longer and more thoughtful combat and play. GW2 is not inetrested in attracting the MMO crowd but rather the console crowd. That means more simplistic fast combat, eye candy and activities require less patience and thought. While the console simplified game play may be the future of MMOs there is still quite a difference between the two. Not only in style but in age maturity, manners, expecations and so much more. Console gameplay games like GW and MMOs are basically two diferent cultures. Trying to forcde the two togerhr under a P2P model would be a disaster.
if they wherent planning on attracting the mmo crowd then why is guild wars 2's hype rate the highest on an MMO forum? Obviously they mean to target MMO players, thats why they highlight stuff like the dynamic event system and getting away from stuff like the holy trinity; not to say all MMO players want to get away from that, but from allot of the mmo vetrans that I have seen post on these forums, they are looking for something new, and thats something it looks like guild wars 2 will provide.
But its not just MMO players either, they are targeting other groups as well, including console gamers. This is because with Guild Wars 2's Buy to Play model people can get on and play however long they want and know that their getting their moneys worth (if they enjoy it).
Like the part where they talk about the centaurs attacking a village, instead of a bunch of centaurs standing fairly still in the middle of a town and your quest log reading "kill 10 centaurs 0/10 killed", you will see visually townspeople running for their lives and a villager shouting for your help when you reach the village the centaurs are attacking townspeople and destroying stuff, you fight them back and then help the village rebuild.
^this scinerio is something that both mmo players who are looking for something new, and players who didnt like mmos can get in on because its something not previously seen in any popular mmos
So like the developers have told us its a game for both casual and hardcore gamers as you can play for anywhere from 30 minuets to several hours and still feel like you got something fun out of it.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
That's because you lack the proper experience to understand what I am saying.
A game which has endgame solely dependent on 5man dungeons will not have complex endgame.
You are like a broken record aren't ya mate? seriously stop. 12 man dungeon doesn't mean a complex end game. Stop making a fool of yourself with this silly definition of depth and complexity.
I have been playing MMOS for almost 12 years now. Do you see me flaunting or boasting about it? who gives a damn really how many hours of our life we wasted playing video games?
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Well, I am kind of worried they will not pull enough money in order to make the game content rich and such. I would pay 15 dollars a month if they make a great game and if I feel my money is well, spent.
Nope. No monthly fee is argueably the games biggest draw. To remove that would be suicide.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
That's because you lack the proper experience to understand what I am saying.
A game which has endgame solely dependent on 5man dungeons will not have complex endgame.
You are like a broken record aren't ya mate? seriously stop. 12 man dungeon doesn't mean a complex end game. Stop making a fool of yourself with this silly definition of depth and complexity.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about, the more players added to the equation the more complex the fight can get. It can involve raid splits, and more intricate details. With 5 player content you can only tune to the max potential of what 5 players can do. Which is a lot different than what a 40 man group can do.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
That's because you lack the proper experience to understand what I am saying.
A game which has endgame solely dependent on 5man dungeons will not have complex endgame.
You are like a broken record aren't ya mate? seriously stop. 12 man dungeon doesn't mean a complex end game. Stop making a fool of yourself with this silly definition of depth and complexity.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about, the more players added to the equation the more complex the fight can get. It can involve raid splits, and more intricate details. With 5 player content you can only tune to the max potential of what 5 players can do. Which is a lot different than what a 40 man group can do.
No, more players added to equation usually ends up being a zerg nothing more. Lesser the players, higher the concentration and co ordination. You are confusing hardcore with depth. Two totally different things.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
That's because you lack the proper experience to understand what I am saying.
A game which has endgame solely dependent on 5man dungeons will not have complex endgame.
Finally something worthwhile for me to reply to...not that it'll mean anything.
Who has said 5man dungeons are the only thing? If you are only looking at the dungeons as the only source of content, you are missing a big part of the game. You could go back and participate in events, activities, personal stories, PvP, exploration. I can tell you, if you were ever into GW1, exploration was a huge part of the content. I guarantee you, exploration will take up a huge chunk of players. All the GW1 vets will want to see what Anet has done to the world, they'll wanna discover those places that bring back memories from GW1. Anet wants you to do the dungeons to have fun, not to min/max. Which is why when you complete a dungeon you'll have the choice between the reward you want. This way you don't have to do those dungeons 100x just to get the one item you want.
I left out you could also role a new class and race and see how that plays out. If you are only looking at dungeons, that's very one track minded, and you will be disappointed.
Also: if you want the large-scale raids where you have 25 people going at one boss, then GW2 is not for you. If you want a game where you can jump into, have some fun, accomplish something, and then get off, GW2 is for you.
We have yet to hear about other things such as guilds, pvp, crafting, more indepth on activites, and personal stories. We have 4 more classes. If you don't find anything that appeals to you, then GW2 is not for you. No need to come on the forums and annoy all the people excited for the game.
EDIT: I thought this thread was about gw2 not having subscription, and it's viability without a sub. I don't think it's about GW2's end game and 5 man dungeons, which btw, if you don't like, you are free to leave. No one is hold a gun to your head demanding you play the game. Is it possible to get a thread lock here? This is getting rather off-track, and the discussion is going nowhere.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
That's because you lack the proper experience to understand what I am saying.
A game which has endgame solely dependent on 5man dungeons will not have complex endgame.
You are like a broken record aren't ya mate? seriously stop. 12 man dungeon doesn't mean a complex end game. Stop making a fool of yourself with this silly definition of depth and complexity.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about, the more players added to the equation the more complex the fight can get. It can involve raid splits, and more intricate details. With 5 player content you can only tune to the max potential of what 5 players can do. Which is a lot different than what a 40 man group can do.
No, more players added to equation usually ends up being a zerg nothing more. Lesser the players, higher the concentration and co ordination. You are confusing hardcore with depth. Two totally different things.
As I said before you simply don't know what you are talking about.
You can't have major healing rotations, multi tank fights, 12 diff targets being CC"d and stuff like that with a 5player group. You have to play to the max potential of what 5 players can do.
As a raid group grows it gets exponentially stronger in what it can do.
You have more CC, more tanking, more healing, more DPS, more general utility the larger your raid goes, which means you can design more complex encounters.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Actually they said that they want people to be able to share in the joy of persistent world content by easily being a part of the same fight and triumphing over the "challenge" together.
They are not tuning content for raids that are on vent coordinating.
Also there is no wiping in GW2, you can res people like nothing.
When you're downed in GW2, it takes longer for someone to revive you each time. I like the system. In WoW, you're raiding, and it's pretty much that a boss has 7 things it can do to kill you, and if you don't move out of the way in that 5 second window, you're dead. I'm a smart player but I don't know, I get caught up trying to notice everything and keep the whole state of the battle in my mind and I just die because I was a second or two too late to react. I don't look at the system as a way to make things super easy mode, but more so that they can have a system where you can mess up and then don't have to sit there for 5 more minutes until the fight is over.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
That's because you lack the proper experience to understand what I am saying.
A game which has endgame solely dependent on 5man dungeons will not have complex endgame.
You are like a broken record aren't ya mate? seriously stop. 12 man dungeon doesn't mean a complex end game. Stop making a fool of yourself with this silly definition of depth and complexity.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about, the more players added to the equation the more complex the fight can get. It can involve raid splits, and more intricate details. With 5 player content you can only tune to the max potential of what 5 players can do. Which is a lot different than what a 40 man group can do.
if you are talking wow I have never seen that they usualy just multiply mechanics to conpensate for more players. only thing hard about larger group is finding those people who actually know how to play the game. regardless of numbers in a group if you can find the required ammount of good players any encounter isn't that hard. Blizzard usually just compensates this by making the margin of error 0 so if you mess 1 thing up your dead. it is usually about the margin of error the designer allows not the group size.
Comments
In that video I just linked, also in the Q&A, the developer addresses the issue of difficulty. The game is geared towards groups of random people being able to band together and win events without really talking (though there is a lot of cross profession combos that hopefully people will visually pick up on). He suggests that if you do have a tight group that does want a challenge, you can always head into the next area and do harder events that will require you to work together cohesively. Also in that video, the designer mentions how there are more challenging higher level events.
Also I believe that the dungeons will provide a lot of the challenge. Here is an excellent article where they mention how 2 warriors and a ranger could beat an encounter that 5 man groups had trouble with, just by really being good at their classes. The point here is that even if the game is generally easy, there are challenges there to find if you decide you want them.
The other thing is that I think the combat has a lot of depth. Casting while moving, dodging attacks. One thing I absolutely love is this shield stance video. That shield stance (which I believe involves holding down the button), not only keeps attacks from hitting you, but also people behind you. That article I linked touches on how awesome warriors can be in PVP by being able to adopt either harassing or defensive roles, depending on the situation.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Yea they also had a manifesto where they said you would see centaurs destroying a bridge, and what you actually saw was centaurs running past some scripted tripwire and the bridge magically breaking a part.
They would need to increase the difficulty about 50x from what was at the demo to even begin to be worthy of p2p.
GW2 will be easier than wow, that is not a bad thing, it just doesn't cater to everyone.
I think RobertDinh does raise a good point: Some players will find GW2 feels too short/easy in the PvE game.
Problem has been it sounds like the less informed contention that "f2p (sic: "b") either can't make enough content without cash shop and/or sub without going out of business if it does".
gw did well with the b2p model and the core design of gw2 is built around it and arenanet seem aware that ripping off customers <> repeat business which is essential with expansions so that's all to be said about that. Finally gw2 appears most anticipated mmo that argument can be safely ignored.
What we do "know":
Average Levelling ~ 90mins (- starter levels) => approx. 100 Hrs gameplay for PvE per avatar. This is for a casual player.
A lot of players, could burning through the content finding insufficient challenge in the PvE game too fast/easy and therefore the content may feel to small.
What DOES make GW2 a seemingly attractive purchase:
(1) Cash/Content ratio. See: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/295706/page/1
(2) Meta-game: side-kick, dungeons, alts, dynamic events may compensate the above somewhat.
(3) b2p, means you can play another p2p MMO atst.
(4) Variability of longevity on the PvP modes (big x-factor)
(5) Higher frequency of expansions/quality content.
The absolute time of playing an avatar from lvl 0-80 may be shorter than other mmos but the quality of content and the content/cash ratio and the optional gamemodes could outweigh for the lack of absolute time and/or grind or filler-content involved in completion/challenge in the PvE game.
We don't know yet but as a casual gamer, it will be sufficient for me to buy/play gw2 alone I more than suspect. ^ ^
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
GW end-game was more than poor. The only thing to do was GvG over and over again and even that was destroyed when PvX wiki came at 2007.
Hmm...your calling me childish, when you are directly attacking me? On a forum? For disagreeing with you? Kinda hypocritical i think.
Did I ever say that anything about extremely challenging that the most skilled gamers play it? No. Rather than twisting words to the way you want, do something productive. Yes they are appealing to casuals more...which btw are still a viable market. But Anet has also stated that there will be a fair amount of challenges for those who want more out of their game. What those are and how those play out have yet to be seen. From what I've read from PC Gamer, dungeons are challenging, yes even for a 5 man.
If you don't want to buy the game then what ever. But what does "MMO Vet" have to do with buying 'bad games'. MMO vet merely means you've played many MMOs. It does not make your opinion on a game the be-all, end all of quality of the game. If the game is not for you, then leave it be. Obviously by being here, you are interested in GW2. If you weren't interested, you would completely pass this board over and go onto something else.
Also I should add: what's worth a monthly fee is also subjective. What you might not pay for, others would gladly hand over money for. Read the above.
Thanks and I am done. When you post something worth my time, then I will gladly have a discussion with you. Until then, have a good day.
Yep as I said before it's worth buying, it just doesn't have enough content to be worth paying 15 bucks a month for years.
People can argue against that but the reality of it is, look at WoW, they bombard you with content, there are dry spells here and there when they give people time to catch up in progression, but anet simply can not keep up with WoW in content patches. And why would we even expect them to, they simply aren't as well-staffed/funded as blizzard.
I called the act of calling objective reasoning "retarded" childish. I didn't say you were childish as a person.
I think you should take a step back and carefully read what is posted before commenting, you seem like you are on-tilt and taking things out of context.
Anet did say that most of the high level world boss fight would not be easy and will require a high level of coordination, or expect to wipe.
Actually they said that they want people to be able to share in the joy of persistent world content by easily being a part of the same fight and triumphing over the "challenge" together.
They are not tuning content for raids that are on vent coordinating.
Also there is no wiping in GW2, you can res people like nothing.
Tell this to the guy who played a demo and knows the whole game inside out!! lol
Bite Me
The worst are inexperienced mmo players thinking they know the potential of each mechanic more than people who have seen the same mechanics in tons of other games for over a decade.
Oh yeah..here we go again. 'i am a MMO vet so i know it all'. Whats new?
Bite Me
If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
No actually they did say you will wipe if you aren't coordinated. I am not talking shatter here, even though he was nerfed for the Demo. I am talking Elder dragons here and they did say if you are not all coordinated you will die. Dynamic events aren't designed to always be beat with ease, if you don't win to bad, you can keep dying until you figure out how not to lose.
And yet you fail to tell us your insight everytime? when asked about depth all you complained was about 5 man pve dungeon..really? guess what, when you are done beating your chest and you have something better to say we will continue this dicussion. Right now i can't take you seriously.
Lastly, you have serious reading comprehension problems. You take everything devs say out of context or twist its meaning to suit your argument. really pathetic if you ask me.
Bite Me
That's because you lack the proper experience to understand what I am saying.
A game which has endgame solely dependent on 5man dungeons will not have complex endgame.
I have noticed the same thing, that even with the midrange Charr gameplay, that the elementalist pretty much blows mobs away. All I can say is that the game is still in alpha and that is the kind of thing that is hopefully getting tweaked. I don't think WoW has very much difficulty in the world either. I've only played EQ2X and LOTRO free and neither of those were difficult at all (though it's very possible you're onto something and that they are free now because they weren't difficult enough to hold interest).
One thing though is that in a traditional MMO, the player has a huge advantage because in 99% of encounters, the player initiates it. The mob has already gotten wrecked by the Pyroblast, Assassinate, or has 3 dots on it before it even reacts. Mobs might have to be tougher just to compensate for that disadvantage.
The dynamic system might have some cheese to it (I noticed the "tripwire" too), but it allows them to do things like have mobs spawn and rush in to complete their objectives (burning hay or whatever) whether players are there or not. That lack of control over initiating the contact gives the player less of an advantage. When something like that happens in a traditional MMO, it's just 3 mobs appearing right in front of you out of nowhere. While I do wish the dynamic content had more permanence in the world than it probably will, I do think it's a fantastic innovative leap.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
if they wherent planning on attracting the mmo crowd then why is guild wars 2's hype rate the highest on an MMO forum? Obviously they mean to target MMO players, thats why they highlight stuff like the dynamic event system and getting away from stuff like the holy trinity; not to say all MMO players want to get away from that, but from allot of the mmo vetrans that I have seen post on these forums, they are looking for something new, and thats something it looks like guild wars 2 will provide.
But its not just MMO players either, they are targeting other groups as well, including console gamers. This is because with Guild Wars 2's Buy to Play model people can get on and play however long they want and know that their getting their moneys worth (if they enjoy it).
Like the part where they talk about the centaurs attacking a village, instead of a bunch of centaurs standing fairly still in the middle of a town and your quest log reading "kill 10 centaurs 0/10 killed", you will see visually townspeople running for their lives and a villager shouting for your help when you reach the village the centaurs are attacking townspeople and destroying stuff, you fight them back and then help the village rebuild.
^this scinerio is something that both mmo players who are looking for something new, and players who didnt like mmos can get in on because its something not previously seen in any popular mmos
So like the developers have told us its a game for both casual and hardcore gamers as you can play for anywhere from 30 minuets to several hours and still feel like you got something fun out of it.
You are like a broken record aren't ya mate? seriously stop. 12 man dungeon doesn't mean a complex end game. Stop making a fool of yourself with this silly definition of depth and complexity.
I have been playing MMOS for almost 12 years now. Do you see me flaunting or boasting about it? who gives a damn really how many hours of our life we wasted playing video games?
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Nope. No monthly fee is argueably the games biggest draw. To remove that would be suicide.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about, the more players added to the equation the more complex the fight can get. It can involve raid splits, and more intricate details. With 5 player content you can only tune to the max potential of what 5 players can do. Which is a lot different than what a 40 man group can do.
No, more players added to equation usually ends up being a zerg nothing more. Lesser the players, higher the concentration and co ordination. You are confusing hardcore with depth. Two totally different things.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Finally something worthwhile for me to reply to...not that it'll mean anything.
Who has said 5man dungeons are the only thing? If you are only looking at the dungeons as the only source of content, you are missing a big part of the game. You could go back and participate in events, activities, personal stories, PvP, exploration. I can tell you, if you were ever into GW1, exploration was a huge part of the content. I guarantee you, exploration will take up a huge chunk of players. All the GW1 vets will want to see what Anet has done to the world, they'll wanna discover those places that bring back memories from GW1. Anet wants you to do the dungeons to have fun, not to min/max. Which is why when you complete a dungeon you'll have the choice between the reward you want. This way you don't have to do those dungeons 100x just to get the one item you want.
I left out you could also role a new class and race and see how that plays out. If you are only looking at dungeons, that's very one track minded, and you will be disappointed.
Also: if you want the large-scale raids where you have 25 people going at one boss, then GW2 is not for you. If you want a game where you can jump into, have some fun, accomplish something, and then get off, GW2 is for you.
We have yet to hear about other things such as guilds, pvp, crafting, more indepth on activites, and personal stories. We have 4 more classes. If you don't find anything that appeals to you, then GW2 is not for you. No need to come on the forums and annoy all the people excited for the game.
EDIT: I thought this thread was about gw2 not having subscription, and it's viability without a sub. I don't think it's about GW2's end game and 5 man dungeons, which btw, if you don't like, you are free to leave. No one is hold a gun to your head demanding you play the game. Is it possible to get a thread lock here? This is getting rather off-track, and the discussion is going nowhere.
As I said before you simply don't know what you are talking about.
You can't have major healing rotations, multi tank fights, 12 diff targets being CC"d and stuff like that with a 5player group. You have to play to the max potential of what 5 players can do.
As a raid group grows it gets exponentially stronger in what it can do.
You have more CC, more tanking, more healing, more DPS, more general utility the larger your raid goes, which means you can design more complex encounters.
Sorry you can't understand that...
When you're downed in GW2, it takes longer for someone to revive you each time. I like the system. In WoW, you're raiding, and it's pretty much that a boss has 7 things it can do to kill you, and if you don't move out of the way in that 5 second window, you're dead. I'm a smart player but I don't know, I get caught up trying to notice everything and keep the whole state of the battle in my mind and I just die because I was a second or two too late to react. I don't look at the system as a way to make things super easy mode, but more so that they can have a system where you can mess up and then don't have to sit there for 5 more minutes until the fight is over.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
if you are talking wow I have never seen that they usualy just multiply mechanics to conpensate for more players. only thing hard about larger group is finding those people who actually know how to play the game. regardless of numbers in a group if you can find the required ammount of good players any encounter isn't that hard. Blizzard usually just compensates this by making the margin of error 0 so if you mess 1 thing up your dead. it is usually about the margin of error the designer allows not the group size.