If you don't understand that people who have more experience have better insight, there's nothing that can be done to help you at this point.
well actually, people who are insightful have a better understanding; experience alone can easily go down the drain if you don't know how to benefit from it...
Nobody in these forums can tell me they wouldn't pay GW2 15 bucks a month if the game was very good,i don'care if they have Wow subs or not
I wouldn't and won't. I will not become married to a game because I have sunk hundreds of $$$ into it as well as my time. You can have one or the other but not both. When they give away the client for free, then I will consider paying a monthly sub, until then I will never buy something then happily give a fee to the seller for the privilege to use it.
If you love this idea so much then I suggest you sell auto's and houses with the same 'feature' set. You are asking the same thing of those people as you are a game player.
I wouldn't pay monthly for guild wars 2 either, nor would i pay monthly for any game. Tell me, day one hardcore wow fans (or any sub MMO for that matter), is wow worth the £700 or so you've sunk into it so far?
I didn't think so. If you seriously believe it was then i pity you.
No game is worth that much money. especially most MMORPG's today. I can buy a game like bad company 2 for £20 and play it for hundreds of hourse (and indeed do), why should i spend that much a month? The game itself doesn't cost that much to run at all* and it in fact encourages designers to be lazy, because they know money is coming in that month regardless. Plus the best way to keep the money rolling is to make the game long, and introduce grind and tedium. Arenanet, on the other hand, will need to make stellar content to make us conciously purchase it, and they will.
If guild wars 2 was a sub-MMO, it'd be a worse game for it.
*plus this point is moot, you pay if you think it's worth the money, not to keep the game running, that's the designers job. Plus if these games cost so much to run, why are the profit margins so damn big? All sub-MMO players are cash cows being milked dry, and they love it.
Originally posted by SNAFUdamus I do not play F2P games period. First F2P I tried was GW one and frankly the communities in F2P games are the worst communities online.
I would pay $50 a month for a game just so I didn't have to deal with scum of the earth that play F2P games.
On behalf of the GW2 community, thank you for taking your elitist prejudices elsewhere.
I do not play F2P games period. First F2P I tried was GW one and frankly the communities in F2P games are the worst communities online.
I would pay $50 a month for a game just so I didn't have to deal with scum of the earth that play F2P games.
Good. You sound like an arse and one of the reasons why P2P communities are so terrible, people like you. Personally, i find B2P communities are better as they just like to play games, but are intelligent enough to realise spending £120 a year isn't worth it.
Now, excuse me while i laugh at the fact you've probably spent hundreds, if not thousands, on grinding some rats.
Well, I am kind of worried they will not pull enough money in order to make the game content rich and such. I would pay 15 dollars a month if they make a great game and if I feel my money is well, spent.
and you know those figures because you've done a cost analysis of anet's business model?
right...stfu unless you actually know what your talking about.
Good. You sound like an arse and one of the reasons why B2P communities are so terrible, people like you. Personally, i find B2P communities are better as they just like to play games, but are intelligent enough to realise spending £120 a year isn't worth it.
Now, excuse me while i laugh at the fact you've probably spent hundreds, if not thousands, on grinding some rats.
The games makes their own communities. Until they banned the worst spammers in the general chat did the game have the problem that all chats were filled with people going "Selling Vahs Hornbow 10 plat" 10 times a minute. Besides that have GWs community never been worse than most others.
Wows community is a lot worse and it is P2P. EQ2 on the other hand have a very nice community. You can't judge a games community on how they pay.
As for if monthly fees are worth it or not it is up to every player. I wasted a few bucks on stuff that others consider dumb myself too, and so have everyone else here.
Frist of all xbox live and ps3 are just bad experiences 4 u bcause u must b rlly bad at games, so maybe you should stfu and gtfo talking about stuff u dont no about. L2p and then get off ur highorse, then maybe ppl wont b so mean 2 u.
2nd the "younger crowd" is still going 2 have 2 pay 4 this game. They will have 2 pay 4 the box just lik everybody sle. How can u say u wnt it 2 have a sub just to get rid of ppl who want 2 play teh game? R u racist? Mebbe if there were subs u could keep poor people from playing 2? Would that make u happy?
u know what? i 4 1 am glad this game wont have a sub, bcause that means i can play teh game and tech u kids how fail u r at life for talking your bs about ppl younger than u, and all without having 2 pay 4 it. i will pwn u nub in game 4 ur stupid attitude. U shud be glad this game will have teh "younger crowd" to keep it going, at least until i come and pwn ur face
Did the internet and texting kill the english language? This is an honest question.
Yes it did. And it messed up all the other languages as well.
I can see DLC or some type of Cash Shop playing a huge roll in the final money making process of this game. If they do not then I'm afraid the content will be a little bare. I'm sure they realize that they have to compete with a couple of strong mmo's (WoW,Lotro,Aion,DDO,EvE) that all have either sub or cash shops set up to finance the continuation of there game. I just personally find it hard to believe a company can use the money they make from sales of the game to: cover the cost of development, hire employees such as gms and tech support to handle the game after release, cover the cost of the servers upkeep, and still actually pull in a substantial profit. I could be wrong though... I often am.
Well, the money from the cashshop will be a welcome addition to the sales of boxes and expansions. And Guildwars 2 will not make ANET rich in the same way Wow is getting rich on it's western subs. But as long as they sell many copies and release an expansion every year I think they can do fine together with selling fluff.
GW earned loads of money because it sold so well. GW2 will need to sell even more but I think it will if the game is solid enough. I don't think GW2 will compete as much with Wow, Aion, Eve or other P2P games since buying a copy does not require you to pay any additional fees and you can play it every now and then like a single player game. But if they start to rely to haevily on the cash shop and forces people to actually buy a lot of stuff that would change and it would compete in another way so I think they will be careful about that.
an you guys who said you can tank but it costs a lot of mana: You have not played GW (or forgotten how it works). There is no CC in GW and no tanking skills. None whatsoever and I really doubt GW2 will have either.
I liked the GW1 finance model, but I am a bit worried that the developers won't say clearly that the GW2 microtransaction will follow the same model as GW1. I am worried because I have played lotro both before and after it went "f2p" and I have seen first hand how a cash shop can ruin a game. The developers may not get greedy and suddenly start adding p2w (pay 2 win) items to the shop, but in lotro developers like that were just fired and replaced with one who had no such morales. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping GW2 won't go down this route, but all I can really do is wait and see.
Well, I am kind of worried they will not pull enough money in order to make the game content rich and such. I would pay 15 dollars a month if they make a great game and if I feel my money is well, spent.
You don't need to spend that for ArenaNet to do just that and, though you may not, I have full confidence that ArenaNet will do just that. If, of course, NCSoft doesn't put their greedy little hands around Guild Wars 2's throat and strangle the project.
It is a complete and utter fallacy that a game needs a subscruption to have rich or even adequate content. Recent games have demonstrated that money put into a game doesn't equal putting money toward content. Charging a subscription to support a game doesn't do that either, it is simply paying for what is already there and what may be there in the future. When we look at what companies have done with the subscription money they receive -and do do the research on this on your own, I don't think this forum is the place to have much more than a cursory intelligent argument- it is overwhelmingly clear that the money is going toward what it goes to in most any disturbingly pseudo-Capitalistic company: the overwhelming majority to the heads at the top and the very least to support and development of the product. Blizzard is perhaps the biggest example in that it sees absurd amounts of revenue from World of Warcraft and yet GMs work mandatory overtime for poor pay all too often, there are too many bugs in a game that receives that much revenue, and while there is a great deal of content it is considered largely arbitrary and is made of a great deal of fluff. There are thousands of quests and many further the storylines of the individual classes, races and factions, but most are just fluff.
After seeing FFXIV and all that it is, all that it was said to be and all that it is not, it is now beyond obvious that a subscription isn't relevant or even helpful. Technology costs are much lower than they were in the MMORPG hayday and, to be frank, the expansion contnet that Square developed for FFXI was largely arbitrary, fluff or simply a timesink. That's what they did with the money they receied from their subscriptions. Check the wiki to see for yourself. Or, to follow NCSoft's career, look at the abysmal job it has done with AION. That's what subscription money goes to.
No, a subscription is not necessary and ArenaNet has it right. WIth the proper planning, technology, game ideas and, hell, a great game, you don't need to charge a subscription: the game will sell itself and sell itself very well. I fully expect great things from Guild Wars 2 because of ArenaNet and without the bullshit of a subscription.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain. (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
I liked the GW1 finance model, but I am a bit worried that the developers won't say clearly that the GW2 microtransaction will follow the same model as GW1. I am worried because I have played lotro both before and after it went "f2p" and I have seen first hand how a cash shop can ruin a game. The developers may not get greedy and suddenly start adding p2w (pay 2 win) items to the shop, but in lotro developers like that were just fired and replaced with one who had no such morales. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping GW2 won't go down this route, but all I can really do is wait and see.
Yes, that is a concern. It was Strain that really pushed GWs B2P and since he is leading Undead labs instead we can't be sure what will happen. In fact since he quit in 2008 have the item shop things in GW have multiplied.
But I am still not really worried. They have very little focus on gear compared to LOTRO. GW2 like GW will not have raid gear os some things with OP stats on. So even if they actually will sell good gear (which is not likely but possible) it will not be the same P2W as in LOTRO.
It would be sad if they got greedy and destroyed the game with that.
Good. You sound like an arse and one of the reasons why B2P communities are so terrible, people like you. Personally, i find B2P communities are better as they just like to play games, but are intelligent enough to realise spending £120 a year isn't worth it.
Now, excuse me while i laugh at the fact you've probably spent hundreds, if not thousands, on grinding some rats.
The games makes their own communities. Until they banned the worst spammers in the general chat did the game have the problem that all chats were filled with people going "Selling Vahs Hornbow 10 plat" 10 times a minute. Besides that have GWs community never been worse than most others.
Wows community is a lot worse and it is P2P. EQ2 on the other hand have a very nice community. You can't judge a games community on how they pay.
As for if monthly fees are worth it or not it is up to every player. I wasted a few bucks on stuff that others consider dumb myself too, and so have everyone else here.
Ewwwww, EQ2 has one of the worst communities. I don't even keep the lvl 1-9 channel on anymore. Since that is used mostly as a general chat. Some of the most immature and vulgar people on there. And i meet so many elitist jerks on regular basis on dungeon runs. Just shows how different the experince of players when it comes to gaming communities.
WOW on the other hand, haven't met anyone immature or potty pouth in my first 2 months of playing. it could be because i am on EU servers and Euros rock
I wish it had a sub to deter a lot of the younger crowd, i'm picturing this game having a worse online experience than xbox live or ps3.
OMG!
Frist of all xbox live and ps3 are just bad experiences 4 u bcause u must b rlly bad at games, so maybe you should stfu and gtfo talking about stuff u dont no about. L2p and then get off ur highorse, then maybe ppl wont b so mean 2 u.
2nd the "younger crowd" is still going 2 have 2 pay 4 this game. They will have 2 pay 4 the box just lik everybody sle. How can u say u wnt it 2 have a sub just to get rid of ppl who want 2 play teh game? R u racist? Mebbe if there were subs u could keep poor people from playing 2? Would that make u happy?
u know what? i 4 1 am glad this game wont have a sub, bcause that means i can play teh game and tech u kids how fail u r at life for talking your bs about ppl younger than u, and all without having 2 pay 4 it. i will pwn u nub in game 4 ur stupid attitude. U shud be glad this game will have teh "younger crowd" to keep it going, at least until i come and pwn ur face
Did the internet and texting kill the english language? This is an honest question.
Xhieron is making a point by typing like that, probably something about how there's good and bad people of all ages and educational backgrounds and that we shouldn't stereotype. I don't know, I just woke up and haven't had any caffeine. Or maybe his younger brother woke up early and posted that.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Ewwwww, EQ2 has one of the worst communities. I don't even keep the lvl 1-9 channel on anymore. Since that is used mostly as a general chat. Some of the most immature and vulgar people on there. And i meet so many elitist jerks on regular basis on dungeon runs. Just shows how different the experince of players when it comes to gaming communities.
WOW on the other hand, haven't met anyone immature or potty pouth in my first 2 months of playing. it could be because i am on EU servers and Euros rock
Do you talk about EQ2X there?
At least Lucan Dlere have always had nice players. I havn't played in 2-3 months but I doubt that have changed that fast.
I remember when I rolled my first character and some helpful vet were standing around and just helping out noobs, you don't see people like that in every game. There were of course a while Chuck Norris jokes kept my banlist full but that was 3 months 2 years ago.
Seriously, if you really want to spend a monthly fee on GW 2 you can always donate buy buying microtransactions. Subs that are $15 are scams, they should be like $00.15/hour so you at least get your money's worth. Its not like you will be playing every 24 hours of the month you pay for.
Having said that GW 2 wont need a sub , like in all the other forum threads: people will buy this game and another MMO ex: Rift which gives Anet a good bit of cash for people just trying it out. Sales might not be enough and that is why microtransactions are there.
Team Fortress 2 started doing the Item Mall simply because they wanted money. Put that in your brain and think about it.
Expansions will help Anet gain more money to produce new material.
I liked the GW1 finance model, but I am a bit worried that the developers won't say clearly that the GW2 microtransaction will follow the same model as GW1. I am worried because I have played lotro both before and after it went "f2p" and I have seen first hand how a cash shop can ruin a game. The developers may not get greedy and suddenly start adding p2w (pay 2 win) items to the shop, but in lotro developers like that were just fired and replaced with one who had no such morales. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping GW2 won't go down this route, but all I can really do is wait and see.
Yes, that is a concern. It was Strain that really pushed GWs B2P and since he is leading Undead labs instead we can't be sure what will happen. In fact since he quit in 2008 have the item shop things in GW have multiplied.
But I am still not really worried. They have very little focus on gear compared to LOTRO. GW2 like GW will not have raid gear os some things with OP stats on. So even if they actually will sell good gear (which is not likely but possible) it will not be the same P2W as in LOTRO.
It would be sad if they got greedy and destroyed the game with that.
They said several times (Both in interviews and in guildwars2guru forums) that any cash shop purchases will never affect gameplay at all. They will never stray from the gw1 method of cosmetic stuff in the cash shop and utilities like extra slots, plus, obviously, expansions. So don't worry. They could change it, but it wouldn't end well for the game, plus it'd also mean arenanet have also been killed and replaced by current blizzard employees overnight :P
Remember that this game is not F2P, it's B2P. We bought a game and that's where most of the revenue comes from. They won't jeapordise it by making you have to shell out loads more for stuff you need to win.
I definitly think they should plan on both systems. Let me be clear i understand the first success of GW (i havent' played it), is about not paying subs but only the box, so this have to be kept definitly no argumentation here for me.
But, first i played all sort of mmo, p2p, micomanagement, pay to win, i tryed all. Some are just good, it have no real relation with the payement system, or if it have its very subtile.
The point i want to make here is that what made me hate micromanagement, is the fact i always felt ripped off. But sometime you agree for it right. Its not bad, the game need your money to go forward, ok, so you pay because you like the game. Never the less you always feel ripped off in micromanagement, and it can get on your nerves pretty fast. You want blue hair 10$, you want the halo on your weapon 10$, you want that last skin 10$... Hey guys 10$ is for one month of sub in like all the other mmo, and you taxe me the same price for a stupid color? jez, you spend in a month more than for a year of game play in p2p, WTF? /rage quit.
I'm exagerating a bit on purpose, but not much really.
What would be good is to have the option pay for the box with micromagement on game additions(it will be overpriced, no way it cannot be that way right). So let those guys the ability to pay 10$ for a special dye and even make ingame money selling those i don't give a damn. Its the way micromanagement work.
But give also a sub possibility, you'll have access to all the shop items, all of them as much as you want right, sub mean you acess all the content of the game. But make those items account linked (you can't sell them ingame), and have to pay a small amount of gold ingame for them on vendors, as if it was designed as a p2p game originally.
I think it would be the best for everyone. Just a suggestion right over what i experienced over p2p, micromanagement games i played. Anyway all p2p games also have some kind of micromanagement over some services, (that aren't anymore service, like new skin, its just a way for them to get some more bucks).
Indeed so, micro transactions can get out of hand very quickly. However i don't see arenanet going overboard. They'll be adding some new features over guild wars 1 in the cash shop (One of which is the ability to keep the skin of an older weapon and apply it to a new one to gain the stats of the 'new' weapon. This process also works for free with hall of monument rewards) however, if it was 'free ' (i.e. part of the game) in guild wars 1 it'll be free in guild wars 2.
Therefore, we're likely to see cash shop items such as 'dye packs' which allow you to buy all the dye colours in the game to have maximum customisation ability from the get go, however the dyes are by no means exclusive and can be bought in game too. A direct comparison would be the skill packs from gw1 for pvp players/heroes. They will NOT, however, release gameplay altering items at all.
Basically, what we'll see is effective the same business model as guild wars 1. Fun stuff and seasonal costumes in the cash shop plus utilities like more slots/storage/character remodelling tokens, with everything else available in the shop (such as aforementioned dye packs) in game too.
Yeesh. robertdinh is an embarassment to us "vets". im pretty sure thousands of us have played video games for over a decade. I am 29, been playing games for over 2 decades id guess. there is no such thing as a hard video game without exp loss on death. eq was hard because you lost levels and your corpse and you had no map. you had to remember to die on the path and remember you ran north till you hit a tree and then turned left till you hit a rock then north east a bit and hopefully you find your body.
GW2 is not stupid enough to go p2p. i doubt they lack content. they want to continue their market share. idiots like robertdinh will go on about casual gameplay while anet corners a share thats only lower than wow's market share.
What would be good is to have the option pay for the box with micromagement on game additions(it will be overpriced, no way it cannot be that way right). So let those guys the ability to pay 10$ for a special dye and even make ingame money selling those i don't give a damn. Its the way micromanagement work.
But give also a sub possibility, you'll have access to all the shop items, all of them as much as you want right, sub mean you acess all the content of the game. But make those items account linked (you can't sell them ingame), and have to pay a small amount of gold ingame for them on vendors, as if it was designed as a p2p game originally.
I think it would be the best for everyone. Just a suggestion right over what i experienced over p2p, micromanagement games i played. Anyway all p2p games also have some kind of micromanagement over some services, (that aren't anymore service, like new skin, its just a way for them to get some more bucks).
That is the dumbest idea ever because having both a no sub & subscription based payment package for Guild Wars 2, and the way that you suggested will be full of problems...
Why should I pay a subsciption fee for a game that is built not to take up all of my free time (no grind)?
What's the point of a subsciption fee when all I'll get a cosmetic benefits, over the penny pinchers?
Why should a subber have access to more items than a non subber, for the same price?
What if a couple months down the line there are $200 worth of items in the store and I pay my $10 sub to buy all the items. Wouldn't that be unfair to all the longtime subbers?
See, having both payment options for a game that is built for the no monthly fee will not work without pissing off a lot of people and alientating the playerbase. Kinda how the people playing F2P versions of P2P MMOs (Champions Online soon) are pissed off by all the restricttions forced upon them, but no one cares because they are just playing a free demo for a P2P game. It's possible to balance things out by restricting the amount a subber can buy (e.g. You are given 2,000 pts. a month to spend in the store and a golden hat cost 750 pts.), but then subbers will be pissed off when something like a Dungeon DLC package comes out for like $15 / 3,000 pts and the subber doesn't have enough points that month, because he/she spent it all on hats. So it will never work for Guild Wars 2 & I'm glad ArenaNet are not even going to try making it work (as far as we know).
Yeesh. robertdinh is an embarassment to us "vets". im pretty sure thousands of us have played video games for over a decade. I am 29, been playing games for over 2 decades id guess. there is no such thing as a hard video game without exp loss on death. eq was hard because you lost levels and your corpse and you had no map. you had to remember to die on the path and remember you ran north till you hit a tree and then turned left till you hit a rock then north east a bit and hopefully you find your body.
GW2 is not stupid enough to go p2p. i doubt they lack content. they want to continue their market share. idiots like robertdinh will go on about casual gameplay while anet corners a share thats only lower than wow's market share.
Yes the skilled pvpers are the embarassments, the pvers who don't even understand why EQ was challenging aren't the embarassments. :rolls eyes:
EQ wasn't hard because of exp loss, that is a superficial timesink.
It was hard because you didn't have mods playing the game for you and the devs actually wanted the content to take work. As opposed to games like wow and gw where success is guaranteed.
It's a shame so many inexperienced and unskilled mmo players are babied on the mmorpg forums.
People who can't understand that fights can be exponentially more complex as your raid size scales up. Or simple things like why EQ was hard. Then of course there is the typical fanboi expectations like thinking the game would release in 2011. It's not luck that I knew it would release in 2012, some of us are well-informed, and we prefer not to conjure up release dates based on blind loyalty and fanatical hope.
Mediocrity and lack of understanding should not be perpetuated just so a site generates better hits.
Comments
well actually, people who are insightful have a better understanding; experience alone can easily go down the drain if you don't know how to benefit from it...
I wouldn't and won't. I will not become married to a game because I have sunk hundreds of $$$ into it as well as my time. You can have one or the other but not both. When they give away the client for free, then I will consider paying a monthly sub, until then I will never buy something then happily give a fee to the seller for the privilege to use it.
If you love this idea so much then I suggest you sell auto's and houses with the same 'feature' set. You are asking the same thing of those people as you are a game player.
I wouldn't pay monthly for guild wars 2 either, nor would i pay monthly for any game. Tell me, day one hardcore wow fans (or any sub MMO for that matter), is wow worth the £700 or so you've sunk into it so far?
I didn't think so. If you seriously believe it was then i pity you.
No game is worth that much money. especially most MMORPG's today. I can buy a game like bad company 2 for £20 and play it for hundreds of hourse (and indeed do), why should i spend that much a month? The game itself doesn't cost that much to run at all* and it in fact encourages designers to be lazy, because they know money is coming in that month regardless. Plus the best way to keep the money rolling is to make the game long, and introduce grind and tedium. Arenanet, on the other hand, will need to make stellar content to make us conciously purchase it, and they will.
If guild wars 2 was a sub-MMO, it'd be a worse game for it.
*plus this point is moot, you pay if you think it's worth the money, not to keep the game running, that's the designers job. Plus if these games cost so much to run, why are the profit margins so damn big? All sub-MMO players are cash cows being milked dry, and they love it.
I do not play F2P games period. First F2P I tried was GW one and frankly the communities in F2P games are the worst communities online.
I would pay $50 a month for a game just so I didn't have to deal with scum of the earth that play F2P games.
On behalf of the GW2 community, thank you for taking your elitist prejudices elsewhere.
Good. You sound like an arse and one of the reasons why P2P communities are so terrible, people like you. Personally, i find B2P communities are better as they just like to play games, but are intelligent enough to realise spending £120 a year isn't worth it.
Now, excuse me while i laugh at the fact you've probably spent hundreds, if not thousands, on grinding some rats.
and you know those figures because you've done a cost analysis of anet's business model?
right...stfu unless you actually know what your talking about.
games should never have a script fee PERIOD.
You must be really naive to think that monthly sub keeps scum out of MMOS.
Bite Me
The games makes their own communities. Until they banned the worst spammers in the general chat did the game have the problem that all chats were filled with people going "Selling Vahs Hornbow 10 plat" 10 times a minute. Besides that have GWs community never been worse than most others.
Wows community is a lot worse and it is P2P. EQ2 on the other hand have a very nice community. You can't judge a games community on how they pay.
As for if monthly fees are worth it or not it is up to every player. I wasted a few bucks on stuff that others consider dumb myself too, and so have everyone else here.
Yes it did. And it messed up all the other languages as well.
I liked the GW1 finance model, but I am a bit worried that the developers won't say clearly that the GW2 microtransaction will follow the same model as GW1. I am worried because I have played lotro both before and after it went "f2p" and I have seen first hand how a cash shop can ruin a game. The developers may not get greedy and suddenly start adding p2w (pay 2 win) items to the shop, but in lotro developers like that were just fired and replaced with one who had no such morales. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping GW2 won't go down this route, but all I can really do is wait and see.
You don't need to spend that for ArenaNet to do just that and, though you may not, I have full confidence that ArenaNet will do just that. If, of course, NCSoft doesn't put their greedy little hands around Guild Wars 2's throat and strangle the project.
It is a complete and utter fallacy that a game needs a subscruption to have rich or even adequate content. Recent games have demonstrated that money put into a game doesn't equal putting money toward content. Charging a subscription to support a game doesn't do that either, it is simply paying for what is already there and what may be there in the future. When we look at what companies have done with the subscription money they receive -and do do the research on this on your own, I don't think this forum is the place to have much more than a cursory intelligent argument- it is overwhelmingly clear that the money is going toward what it goes to in most any disturbingly pseudo-Capitalistic company: the overwhelming majority to the heads at the top and the very least to support and development of the product. Blizzard is perhaps the biggest example in that it sees absurd amounts of revenue from World of Warcraft and yet GMs work mandatory overtime for poor pay all too often, there are too many bugs in a game that receives that much revenue, and while there is a great deal of content it is considered largely arbitrary and is made of a great deal of fluff. There are thousands of quests and many further the storylines of the individual classes, races and factions, but most are just fluff.
After seeing FFXIV and all that it is, all that it was said to be and all that it is not, it is now beyond obvious that a subscription isn't relevant or even helpful. Technology costs are much lower than they were in the MMORPG hayday and, to be frank, the expansion contnet that Square developed for FFXI was largely arbitrary, fluff or simply a timesink. That's what they did with the money they receied from their subscriptions. Check the wiki to see for yourself. Or, to follow NCSoft's career, look at the abysmal job it has done with AION. That's what subscription money goes to.
No, a subscription is not necessary and ArenaNet has it right. WIth the proper planning, technology, game ideas and, hell, a great game, you don't need to charge a subscription: the game will sell itself and sell itself very well. I fully expect great things from Guild Wars 2 because of ArenaNet and without the bullshit of a subscription.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
Yes, that is a concern. It was Strain that really pushed GWs B2P and since he is leading Undead labs instead we can't be sure what will happen. In fact since he quit in 2008 have the item shop things in GW have multiplied.
But I am still not really worried. They have very little focus on gear compared to LOTRO. GW2 like GW will not have raid gear os some things with OP stats on. So even if they actually will sell good gear (which is not likely but possible) it will not be the same P2W as in LOTRO.
It would be sad if they got greedy and destroyed the game with that.
Ewwwww, EQ2 has one of the worst communities. I don't even keep the lvl 1-9 channel on anymore. Since that is used mostly as a general chat. Some of the most immature and vulgar people on there. And i meet so many elitist jerks on regular basis on dungeon runs. Just shows how different the experince of players when it comes to gaming communities.
WOW on the other hand, haven't met anyone immature or potty pouth in my first 2 months of playing. it could be because i am on EU servers and Euros rock
Bite Me
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
Xhieron is making a point by typing like that, probably something about how there's good and bad people of all ages and educational backgrounds and that we shouldn't stereotype. I don't know, I just woke up and haven't had any caffeine. Or maybe his younger brother woke up early and posted that.
Check his earlier posts and you'll see.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Do you talk about EQ2X there?
At least Lucan Dlere have always had nice players. I havn't played in 2-3 months but I doubt that have changed that fast.
I remember when I rolled my first character and some helpful vet were standing around and just helping out noobs, you don't see people like that in every game. There were of course a while Chuck Norris jokes kept my banlist full but that was 3 months 2 years ago.
Seriously, if you really want to spend a monthly fee on GW 2 you can always donate buy buying microtransactions. Subs that are $15 are scams, they should be like $00.15/hour so you at least get your money's worth. Its not like you will be playing every 24 hours of the month you pay for.
Having said that GW 2 wont need a sub , like in all the other forum threads: people will buy this game and another MMO ex: Rift which gives Anet a good bit of cash for people just trying it out. Sales might not be enough and that is why microtransactions are there.
Team Fortress 2 started doing the Item Mall simply because they wanted money. Put that in your brain and think about it.
Expansions will help Anet gain more money to produce new material.
I do cocaine
-I am here to perform logic
They said several times (Both in interviews and in guildwars2guru forums) that any cash shop purchases will never affect gameplay at all. They will never stray from the gw1 method of cosmetic stuff in the cash shop and utilities like extra slots, plus, obviously, expansions. So don't worry. They could change it, but it wouldn't end well for the game, plus it'd also mean arenanet have also been killed and replaced by current blizzard employees overnight :P
Remember that this game is not F2P, it's B2P. We bought a game and that's where most of the revenue comes from. They won't jeapordise it by making you have to shell out loads more for stuff you need to win.
In response to title of thread:
Yes! It would definitely NOT be better if Guild Wars 2 had a sub.
I'll just respond to the thread tittle ok, i haven't read anything, even the OP post.
Would it not be better that Guild wars 2 Had a sub?
I definitly think they should plan on both systems. Let me be clear i understand the first success of GW (i havent' played it), is about not paying subs but only the box, so this have to be kept definitly no argumentation here for me.
But, first i played all sort of mmo, p2p, micomanagement, pay to win, i tryed all. Some are just good, it have no real relation with the payement system, or if it have its very subtile.
The point i want to make here is that what made me hate micromanagement, is the fact i always felt ripped off. But sometime you agree for it right. Its not bad, the game need your money to go forward, ok, so you pay because you like the game. Never the less you always feel ripped off in micromanagement, and it can get on your nerves pretty fast. You want blue hair 10$, you want the halo on your weapon 10$, you want that last skin 10$... Hey guys 10$ is for one month of sub in like all the other mmo, and you taxe me the same price for a stupid color? jez, you spend in a month more than for a year of game play in p2p, WTF? /rage quit.
I'm exagerating a bit on purpose, but not much really.
What would be good is to have the option pay for the box with micromagement on game additions(it will be overpriced, no way it cannot be that way right). So let those guys the ability to pay 10$ for a special dye and even make ingame money selling those i don't give a damn. Its the way micromanagement work.
But give also a sub possibility, you'll have access to all the shop items, all of them as much as you want right, sub mean you acess all the content of the game. But make those items account linked (you can't sell them ingame), and have to pay a small amount of gold ingame for them on vendors, as if it was designed as a p2p game originally.
I think it would be the best for everyone. Just a suggestion right over what i experienced over p2p, micromanagement games i played. Anyway all p2p games also have some kind of micromanagement over some services, (that aren't anymore service, like new skin, its just a way for them to get some more bucks).
Indeed so, micro transactions can get out of hand very quickly. However i don't see arenanet going overboard. They'll be adding some new features over guild wars 1 in the cash shop (One of which is the ability to keep the skin of an older weapon and apply it to a new one to gain the stats of the 'new' weapon. This process also works for free with hall of monument rewards) however, if it was 'free ' (i.e. part of the game) in guild wars 1 it'll be free in guild wars 2.
Therefore, we're likely to see cash shop items such as 'dye packs' which allow you to buy all the dye colours in the game to have maximum customisation ability from the get go, however the dyes are by no means exclusive and can be bought in game too. A direct comparison would be the skill packs from gw1 for pvp players/heroes. They will NOT, however, release gameplay altering items at all.
Basically, what we'll see is effective the same business model as guild wars 1. Fun stuff and seasonal costumes in the cash shop plus utilities like more slots/storage/character remodelling tokens, with everything else available in the shop (such as aforementioned dye packs) in game too.
Yeesh. robertdinh is an embarassment to us "vets". im pretty sure thousands of us have played video games for over a decade. I am 29, been playing games for over 2 decades id guess. there is no such thing as a hard video game without exp loss on death. eq was hard because you lost levels and your corpse and you had no map. you had to remember to die on the path and remember you ran north till you hit a tree and then turned left till you hit a rock then north east a bit and hopefully you find your body.
GW2 is not stupid enough to go p2p. i doubt they lack content. they want to continue their market share. idiots like robertdinh will go on about casual gameplay while anet corners a share thats only lower than wow's market share.
That is the dumbest idea ever because having both a no sub & subscription based payment package for Guild Wars 2, and the way that you suggested will be full of problems...
Why should I pay a subsciption fee for a game that is built not to take up all of my free time (no grind)?
What's the point of a subsciption fee when all I'll get a cosmetic benefits, over the penny pinchers?
Why should a subber have access to more items than a non subber, for the same price?
What if a couple months down the line there are $200 worth of items in the store and I pay my $10 sub to buy all the items. Wouldn't that be unfair to all the longtime subbers?
See, having both payment options for a game that is built for the no monthly fee will not work without pissing off a lot of people and alientating the playerbase. Kinda how the people playing F2P versions of P2P MMOs (Champions Online soon) are pissed off by all the restricttions forced upon them, but no one cares because they are just playing a free demo for a P2P game. It's possible to balance things out by restricting the amount a subber can buy (e.g. You are given 2,000 pts. a month to spend in the store and a golden hat cost 750 pts.), but then subbers will be pissed off when something like a Dungeon DLC package comes out for like $15 / 3,000 pts and the subber doesn't have enough points that month, because he/she spent it all on hats. So it will never work for Guild Wars 2 & I'm glad ArenaNet are not even going to try making it work (as far as we know).
Yes the skilled pvpers are the embarassments, the pvers who don't even understand why EQ was challenging aren't the embarassments. :rolls eyes:
EQ wasn't hard because of exp loss, that is a superficial timesink.
It was hard because you didn't have mods playing the game for you and the devs actually wanted the content to take work. As opposed to games like wow and gw where success is guaranteed.
It's a shame so many inexperienced and unskilled mmo players are babied on the mmorpg forums.
People who can't understand that fights can be exponentially more complex as your raid size scales up. Or simple things like why EQ was hard. Then of course there is the typical fanboi expectations like thinking the game would release in 2011. It's not luck that I knew it would release in 2012, some of us are well-informed, and we prefer not to conjure up release dates based on blind loyalty and fanatical hope.
Mediocrity and lack of understanding should not be perpetuated just so a site generates better hits.