No please, I'd like to know what it is about Rift that you think "next generation" and awesome. Please share with us. I don't care what other people are saying, I'd like to hear from you specifically. Or did you even play beta?
Sigh. Here it goes, sandbox lover, hopefully this helps your 'amnesia': the soul system is a nice twist on the class+talent tree setup and offers more flexibility than in many other MMO games,
The soul system can be nice if they make changes. As it is now, there's no reason to multi-soul at end game because the best talents are all at the top and bottom of the trees. I already said this was a nice feature or did you skip over that in my previous posts? It's interesting but not next generation.
the rifts at the peak of their action can be pretty awesome and have more dynamics in them than the Public Quests in WAR,
That's just flat out not true. More dynamics that PQs? C'mon, that's just silly. Rifts are the same thing over and over. At least in WAR there are many different PQs. Nothing new or next generation here.
if they can manage to let it go all out as at the end of this weekend, then it should be a welcome change from the questing, I hunted rifts for a while, and it sure was fun.
I thought they were boring and avoided them after the first few. Too many people, no loot drops from them, and just a waste of time. Nothing next generation here.
Graphics, not bad at all, not the best I've seen, but from the current MMORPG's I'd personally only rate AoC's and FFXIV's better, and Aion's character models, not Aion's environment though.
Graphics are not bad but certainly not next generation or awe inspiring.
Next generation? Don't think so, but the way people meant this, I doubt any MMORPG has been 'next gen' or revolutionary, maybe only UO and EQ when they came out and made a distinct difference from the MMO games that came before. But great fun, sure, that it was.
Well that's my point, Rift claims to be next generation but it's not, it's all recycled MMO content. As far as being fun, I found it to be one of the most boring MMOs I've ever played, and yes that includes theme parks I've played. If it's your thing that's cool but it's not better than WoW, WAR, or other good MMOs on the market and it's certainly NOT next generation. Not even close.
If you like the game then by all means buy it. You shouldn't get all riled up with these reviews and take it personally, everyone has their likes and dislikes. I found Rift to be one of the most boring games I've ever played but some people like it. Such is life.
I'll have to agree with you on this. Rift is not bad nor good, it's just blah. It's nothing that anyone that has played mmo's for the last 7 or 8 yrs haven't been there done that. It surely doesn't do anything better than WOW and if you have played WAR/AOC/LOTR/AION and got burnt out very quickly on them, then RIFT will follow suite very quickly. The biggest problem with this game is that it didn't take that next step forward on any of the tried and true systems that all mmo's use.
The first thing I said when I first logged in was "Man, this is Warhammer all over again!" From the sounds, the environment to the way my character moved. Then I did my first rift and thought, "This is just like a public quest." I even watched a podcast and saw one of the Warhammer developers ....
Frankly i dont see what everyone sees in this game. It's a mix of WOW and WAR nothing original, we all been playing these kind of game for over 10 years now.
I can see your point somewhat, but 95-99% of all MMO gamers are still playing these kind of games, they're not playing these other really different MMORPG's that are also out there.
This leads to assume that MMO gamers aren't as bored and tired with them as they say they are, if they're continuing to play these kind of games they've been playing for over 10 years now, instead of the MMO games that are different.
while i agree with the overall spirit of many of your posts, i apparently can't let this certain VERY WRONG assumption go uncontested after seeing it a few too many times.
MMOs are:
%98 the same
%2 try SOME (SOME!) new elements, many of which conflict with the RPG elements that they can't let go of
%0 without RPG elements (and that's a serious flaw, and the reason why so many people WON'T play MMOs, afterall, single player RPG's as a whole, tend to the niche side).
if its true that 95% - 99% of all "MMO gamers" play traditional MMOs, its only because the ones that DON'T are EX-MMO gamers, who are tired of all that shit and refuse to waste more of their life away on them.
for one example, out of the 12 million WoW players, i bet its MANY MANY more than 12 million who have played it briefly, or up to a point and no longer play on a regular basis (just re-subbing long enough to remind themselves what a life waste it(they) are) or AT ALL.
almost all of the supposedly DIFFERENT MMOs (most are only different on the surface, and/or with just a few little twists that are fairly irrelevant) are recent entries, and have many OTHER problems that woulda killed them just the same even if their game was the 'tried and true' same old same old.
remember, people who love beef will generally REFUSE TO EAT RAW BEEF, even if its the only option. and it HAS been so far.
do you personally LOVE Rift? just interested why you seem so dedicated to proving that its ok to like more of the same (something you don't need to try to prove)?
my interest is simply to do my small part to squash this idea that you seem to promote that developers should stop making new experiences, because you've drawn the erroneous conclusion that nobody wants anything different. AND THAT VERY ATTITUDE IS WHAT'S GIVEN US 11 years of the same old same old over and over again.
i really don't think you want to promote that idea....... at least if you were conscious of what you are doing.
my interest is simply to do my small part to squash this idea that you seem to promote that developers should stop making new experiences, because you've drawn the erroneous conclusion that nobody wants anything different. AND THAT VERY ATTITUDE IS WHAT'S GIVEN US 11 years of the same old same old over and over again.
i really don't think you want to promote that idea....... at least if you were conscious of what you are doing.
And who told you theer are not enough new experinces? let me name few without even thinking.. Fallen Earth, Earth Rise releasing Feb 2011, perpetuum online, Darkfall, mortal online. So the new and fresh experince exists so i refuse to believe the over reaction of some people when they see another MMO trying an old and tested formula with couple of new things thrown in the mix.
All of the high profiled MMOS iof 2011 are going to be more of the same but doesn't mean they do not bring anything new to the genre. All of these MMOS are trying to do something different and yet keep the classic feel of MMOS to it. there is so much doom and gloom on forums as if devs stopped making different MMO all together. No they are here, yes they are from small indie devs and do not generate so much hype but they EXIST. It would be better if all these people who are 'looking for fresh experince' put their money where there mouth is and sub to these MMOS and enjoy themselves.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
my interest is simply to do my small part to squash this idea that you seem to promote that developers should stop making new experiences, because you've drawn the erroneous conclusion that nobody wants anything different. AND THAT VERY ATTITUDE IS WHAT'S GIVEN US 11 years of the same old same old over and over again.
i really don't think you want to promote that idea....... at least if you were conscious of what you are doing.
And who told you theer are not enough new experinces? let me name few without even thinking.. Fallen Earth, Earth Rise releasing Feb 2011, perpetuum online, Darkfall, mortal online. So the new and fresh experince exists so i refuse to believe the over reaction of some people when they see another MMO trying an old and tested formula with couple of new things thrown in the mix.
All of the high profiled MMOS iof 2011 are going to be more of the same but doesn't mean they do not bring anything new to the genre. All of these MMOS are trying to do something different and yet keep the classic feel of MMOS to it. there is so much doom and gloom on forums as if devs stopped making different MMO all together. No they are here, yes they are from small indie devs and do not generate so much hype but they EXIST. It would be better if all these people who are 'looking for fresh experince' put their money where there mouth is and sub to these MMOS and enjoy themselves.
i'm aware of all you named and played them all except Perpetuum and of course EarthRise. i know about both, and neither will be my cup of tea. especially Earthrise. i've played virtually every non-asian 3D MMO.
all the different ones have problems. as many great things as there are about Darkfall i've only played it 3 months because it has serious problems in my eyes too. THEY ALL DO.
there aren't enough different MMOs out there to statistically bring about even ONE that i can call home. THAT's why there aren't enough for me. and there WON'T be enough until every fan of every gameplay genre has not only ONE MMO that has their kind of gameplay, but until there are enough to choose from OF THAT TYPE that at least one of them has all their other mechanics and quality thresholds satisfied.
the 1st iterations of good ideas (and not even one MMO yet has had a good enough basic gameplay premise for me) are statistically (and almost necessarily) poorly implemented.
the basics of EQ was (in hindsight) apparently a great thing that had vast subscriptions possbilities, but it took many companies many tries before WoW came along and (apparently, according to statistics) did things " RIGHT " (at least commercially speaking) about 6 years later.
all these new things being tried may take way MORE than 6 years (not many Blizzard level devs out there with such builtin fanbases and lore built up from many years), and many more iterations before they are up to a certain quality threshold demanded by the potentially sizeable groups that would be interested in such game types.
AND NO I AM NOT GONNA EAT RAW BEEF, that wouldn't help much anyways, cuz while it might enable more indie devs and such, it'd teach companies they can get away with murder as long as they try something, ANYthing different.
i'll patiently wait for something where it all comes together PROPERLY.
and as far as you commanding me to have fun is concerned......
i wish it was that easy. too bad you don't have that power. 8)
i'm aware of all you named and played them all except Perpetuum and of course EarthRise. i know about both, and neither will be my cup of tea. especially Earthrise. i've played virtually every non-asian 3D MMO.
all the different ones have problems. as many great things as there are about Darkfall i've only played it 3 months because it has serious problems in my eyes too. THEY ALL DO.
there aren't enough different MMOs out there to statistically bring about even ONE that i can call home. THAT's why there aren't enough for me. and there WON'T be enough until every fan of every gameplay genre has not only ONE MMO that has their kind of gameplay, but until there are enough to choose from OF THAT TYPE that at least one of them has all their other mechanics and quality thresholds satisfied.
the 1st iterations of good ideas (and not even one MMO yet has had a good enough basic gameplay premise for me) are statistically (and almost necessarily) poorly implemented.
the basics of EQ was (in hindsight) apparently a great thing that had vast subscriptions possbilities, but it took many companies many tries before WoW came along and (apparently, according to statistics) did things " RIGHT " (at least commercially speaking) about 6 years later.
all these new things being tried may take way MORE than 6 years (not many Blizzard level devs out there with such builtin fanbases and lore built up from many years), and many more iterations before they are up to a certain quality threshold demanded by the potentially sizeable groups that would be interested in such game types.
AND NO I AM NOT GONNA EAT RAW BEEF, that wouldn't help much anyways, cuz while it might enable more indie devs and such, it'd teach companies they can get away with murder as long as they try something, ANYthing different.
i'll patiently wait for something where it all comes together PROPERLY.
and as far as you commanding me to have fun is concerned......
i wish it was that easy. too bad you don't have that power. 8)
I named 6 titles without even thinking and i am sure there are more but ofcourse they are not good enough and they will never be. And i disagree that there is not enough choice. problem is that the only good MMO that exists is in your mind. So even if you can choose out of 10 titles right now it is not enough, compare that to high profiled themepark MMOS and total is more or less same. There is quite a balance in MMOS variety if you ask me but people just love to complain and throw tantrums, that is more entertaining than playing a MMO itself.
That is why Earthrise will burn too because people just love to complain and when something different comes along its never given its due chance.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I named 6 titles without even thinking and i am sure there are more but ofcourse they are not good enough and they will never be. And i disagree that there is not enough choice. problem is that the only good MMO that exists is in your mind. So even if you can choose out of 10 titles right now it is not enough, compare that to high profiled themepark MMOS and total is more or less same. There is quite a balance in MMOS variety if you ask me but people just love to complain and throw tantrums, that is more entertaining than playing a MMO itself.
That is why Earthrise will burn too because people just love to complain and when something different comes along its never given its due chance.
What about EVE? The game is very different from the rest of the genre's painfully similar offerings. Yet somehow, CCP has one the highest number of subs with respect to P2P western games.
Make no mistake, people want new and innovative, that much is obvious. Naming a few games that have not taken off or have just released or (as in one of your examples) has not even released yet, doesn't change this fact. You haven't stumbled upon some sort of barometric nugget with the titles you named. Don't kid yourself.
It's awesome that you and many others don't mind eating the same sandwich day after day, month after month, year after year, but please recognize that there are a lot of us who don't appreciate that kind of menu.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
i'm aware of all you named and played them all except Perpetuum and of course EarthRise. i know about both, and neither will be my cup of tea. especially Earthrise. i've played virtually every non-asian 3D MMO.
all the different ones have problems. as many great things as there are about Darkfall i've only played it 3 months because it has serious problems in my eyes too. THEY ALL DO.
there aren't enough different MMOs out there to statistically bring about even ONE that i can call home. THAT's why there aren't enough for me. and there WON'T be enough until every fan of every gameplay genre has not only ONE MMO that has their kind of gameplay, but until there are enough to choose from OF THAT TYPE that at least one of them has all their other mechanics and quality thresholds satisfied.
the 1st iterations of good ideas (and not even one MMO yet has had a good enough basic gameplay premise for me) are statistically (and almost necessarily) poorly implemented.
the basics of EQ was (in hindsight) apparently a great thing that had vast subscriptions possbilities, but it took many companies many tries before WoW came along and (apparently, according to statistics) did things " RIGHT " (at least commercially speaking) about 6 years later.
all these new things being tried may take way MORE than 6 years (not many Blizzard level devs out there with such builtin fanbases and lore built up from many years), and many more iterations before they are up to a certain quality threshold demanded by the potentially sizeable groups that would be interested in such game types.
AND NO I AM NOT GONNA EAT RAW BEEF, that wouldn't help much anyways, cuz while it might enable more indie devs and such, it'd teach companies they can get away with murder as long as they try something, ANYthing different.
i'll patiently wait for something where it all comes together PROPERLY.
and as far as you commanding me to have fun is concerned......
i wish it was that easy. too bad you don't have that power. 8)
I named 6 titles without even thinking and i am sure there are more but ofcourse they are not good enough and they will never be. And i disagree that there is not enough choice. problem is that the only good MMO that exists is in your mind. So even if you can choose out of 10 titles right now it is not enough, compare that to high profiled themepark MMOS and total is more or less same. There is quite a balance in MMOS variety if you ask me but people just love to complain and throw tantrums, that is more entertaining than playing a MMO itself.
That is why Earthrise will burn too because people just love to complain and when something different comes along its never given its due chance.
the supposedly 'different' MMOs are a EXTREMELY TINY FRACTIONAL number compared to the number of same old same old MMOs (why you wanna limit it to high profile ones anyways?) .
the idea of there being a balance of different kinds of MMOs is totally laughable. do you REALLY believe they aren't WEIGHTED IN THE EXTREME to the same old formula?
and as mentioned, what the 'different' MMOs try to do different is insignificant and often incompatible with the MAJORITY of their features which ARE THE SAME. how come they are all RPGs?
non MMO games have all kinds of other options that are not represented usually AT ALL in the MMO space, and the few MMOs that add a TOUCH of those elements totally screw it up.
really, what is your point?
if complaining that you are not happy with something is wrong,
then stop being a hypocrite by complaining how you aren't happy with all the posts and opinions of mine and others who don't agree with you. give it a freakin' rest. do you live on this forum?
are you paid by Trion? you're clogging up every thread related to Rift.
you invalidated nothing that i said. you can't invalidate my tastes and opinions.
the supposedly 'different' MMOs are a EXTREMELY TINY FRACTIONAL number compared to the number of same old same old MMOs (why you wanna limit it to high profile ones anyways?) .
the idea of there being a balance of different kinds of MMOs is totally laughable. do you REALLY believe they aren't WEIGHTED IN THE EXTREME to the same old formula?
and as mentioned, what the 'different' MMOs try to do different is insignificant and often incompatible with the MAJORITY of their features which ARE THE SAME. how come they are all RPGs?
non MMO games have all kinds of other options that are not represented usually AT ALL in the MMO space, and the few MMOs that add a TOUCH of those elements totally screw it up.
really, what is your point?
if complaining that you are not happy with something is wrong,
then stop being a hypocrite by complaining how you aren't happy with all the posts and opinions of mine and others who don't agree with you. give it a freakin' rest. do you live on this forum?
are you paid by Trion? you're clogging up every thread related to Rift.
you invalidated nothing that i said. you can't invalidate my tastes and opinions.
Personal attacks are last resort when you have nothing better to say. looks like i hit a nerve. I have seen you posting everywhere on Rift forums too are you a shill of some MMO company? are you paid to spread this dribble all over the forums? see what i did there..two can play that game pal.
How am i being a hypocrite though? do you even know that word means? i enjoy themepark as much a sandbox MMO. Keep waiting though for this supposedly 'different MMO' grumble and grind your teeth for as long as you want because even if such a MMO ever came along it is not going to be enough. if you think games likePerpetuum, Fallen Earth, Darkfall, Ryzom etc are not good enough than nothing will be. For someone so desperate to play a 'different MMO' you surely are very choosey aren't ya?
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
the supposedly 'different' MMOs are a EXTREMELY TINY FRACTIONAL number compared to the number of same old same old MMOs (why you wanna limit it to high profile ones anyways?) .
How is this point even relevant? how does it matter if they are extremely tiny in fraction? as long as they are different and offer the experince you are looking for which is not 'same old same' why would you care how many such MMOS are out there? if these MMOS also begin to reproduce like themepark MMO what will be the difference? i thought all of you snotty 'different mmo' lovers were all about quality and not quantity?
Originally posted by Cecropia
What about EVE? The game is very different from the rest of the genre's painfully similar offerings. Yet somehow, CCP has one the highest number of subs with respect to P2P western games.
Make no mistake, people want new and innovative, that much is obvious. Naming a few games that have not taken off or have just released or (as in one of your examples) has not even released yet, doesn't change this fact. You haven't stumbled upon some sort of barometric nugget with the titles you named. Don't kid yourself.
It's awesome that you and many others don't mind eating the same sandwich day after day, month after month, year after year, but please recognize that there are a lot of us who don't appreciate that kind of menu.
And why do you think these MMOS have not taken off? its is because you people are too busy complaining instead of playing.
What about EVE? The game is very different from the rest of the genre's painfully similar offerings. Yet somehow, CCP has one the highest number of subs with respect to P2P western games.
Make no mistake, people want new and innovative, that much is obvious. Naming a few games that have not taken off or have just released or (as in one of your examples) has not even released yet, doesn't change this fact. You haven't stumbled upon some sort of barometric nugget with the titles you named. Don't kid yourself.
It's awesome that you and many others don't mind eating the same sandwich day after day, month after month, year after year, but please recognize that there are a lot of us who don't appreciate that kind of menu.
And why do you think these MMOS have not taken off? its is because you people are too busy complaining instead of playing.
I'm not complaining, and I am currently subbed to both EVE and Darkfall. I consider myself very fortunate to have two wicked MMOs to call home. Most people are not as lucky as me.
EVE took some time to gain momentum to become the success that it is, Darkfall could follow a similar path, only time will tell.
I'm thrilled that you are content with what the industry is dishing out these days, but there are many that are beyond frustrated. All forms of entertainment require innovation in order to survive. MMORPGs are no different.
Stagnation leads to death, which then leads to rot, whether you like it or not.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't care if Rift has stolen features from other games like WoW and warhammer as long as the developers have the common sense to keep the game good once they've got it. World of Warcraft used to be AMAZING in it's launch, after the expansion packs it's pure trash. The only people still getting into it are those with good friends in the game or children.
Rift LOOKS decent enough to me, there are things I crave about the previous games (EQ2 Ruined, WoW Ruined, WAR Dead.) and there is potential for this game to fill those gaps. It will not kill anything, and if what all the doomsayers are claiming is true then it could very well fail like Warhammer did as NOTHING will be able to steal WoW's playerbase. The only people interested in MMOs these days are people frustrated with their previous games. The majority of us are in the same boat when jumping around from game to game, but unfortunately I think the MMO community has become a bunch of whiny frustrated assholes who enjoy trolling each other more than actually trying to get into any of the games they look at and thus will never actually find a newer game to settle in for more than 2 months. I think that's why I've chosen to stay away from MMORPGs for a while, I haven't touched one in on almost a year and Rift is the only one I've seen as of recent that shows any promise at all... that's not saying much however..
Currently playing - FF14ARR Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
So many clueless trolls..'Oh look that SS looks like WoW skill icons,character portraits,health bar then it must be a WoW/War clone,I should make a thread about it'.No need to play of course,no need to level a bit and explore the game,a SS or a video is more than enough..
This topic piqued my interest, though not because it comes across as slightly trollish.
I recall around may/june this year someone commenting that this is the game warhammer should have been. I'm guessing they meant a PVE oriented mmo, with some pvp focus, rather than a heavily PVP oriented game with some half-assed pve system tacked on just for flavour.
The only thing that really reminds me of warhammer is that the animations from early alpha have that rigid look to them. I'm just hoping the archery focused souls dont have that stupid, permanent shooting at the stars-even- at- point- blank -range-effect! Oh yeah, the other thing, speaking of animations, the pets also from an alpha/early closed beta had the same wooden movement as the white lion pet, reminded me of the nwn summoned pets circa 2002.
If someone could find a link of some up-to-date footage of pet animations I'd really appreciate it (gonna check youtube in a sec anyways!).
Back to my point, a repackaged version of war may not be such a bad thing so long as they don't include the bad stuff
the supposedly 'different' MMOs are a EXTREMELY TINY FRACTIONAL number compared to the number of same old same old MMOs (why you wanna limit it to high profile ones anyways?) .
How is this point even relevant? how does it matter if they are extremely tiny in fraction? as long as they are different and offer the experince you are looking for which is not 'same old same' why would you care how many such MMOS are out there? if these MMOS also begin to reproduce like themepark MMO what will be the difference? i thought all of you snotty 'different mmo' lovers were all about quality and not quantity?
because the guy was saying how there was supposedly some balance between 'different' and same old same old.
an extremely oblivious statement to the actually reality.
my whole point was that they DON'T offer anything even remotely close to what i'm looking for.
you REALLY don't understand how statistics work? that if there were higher numbers there's a higher chance one of them could satisfy me? come on. lol
you're calling a whole group of people snotty....... in a very snotty & confused sounding message.
Without dragging myself into this mess to define what RIFT is. All i can offer you guys is this. RIFT will last for about 3-6 months just like War/Aion. Period!
Now, claiming Trion Devs lurking these forum defending thier creation. Right indeed they are! I came across to some and have argued with our fists!
@OP, i understand that's it is a very cheap tatics by repackaging an MMO to make a quick buck and you are absolutely right in this case. But isn't that all MMO somewhat mirrored themselves from the MMO genre? Rift is no excception
As stated in some of my posts on RIFT official forum. Rift is entertaining and easy to play. For this RIFT is targeting the younger MMO generation, not MMO Veteran.
The hate is strong in this one. I don't see why people are already hunting down RIFT with pitchforks and hoping it will fail, do you guys hate MMO's this much?
Yes, the game follows a currently VERY popular MMO-formula. But I mean look at any other genre at the moment and you'll quickly see the same patterns in game design. I don't get why people are waiting for this holy grail to pop up out of nowhere to please you all (which is impossible). From what I've seen in videos of Rift it looks to me like they're not trying to reinvent the wheel but they're taking something that's been proven popular and something that works and continues to build on it. I don't neccesarily see this is a bad thing. Because when it comes down to it, what makes an MMO great?
Oh right, IT'S THE PEOPLE YOU SPEND THE TIME PLAYING IT WITH!
Sharing success in raids or PVP is the shit! With good friends you either know IRL or met through the game. Personally I'll give this one a proper whirl at launch as it looks to me like it's a solid and wellpolished MMO that's trying to deliver an enjoyable experience. What's been drawing me in the most is the soul/class system, looks great and having the ability to play different playstyles on the same toon really speaks well for Rift's lifespan as an MMO, couple this with good updates as far as content goes and a fun PVP experience and I'm sold.
This is just hopes and dreams but I don't think it's too farfetched as for what we could expect imo.
you really think everything has been explored in the MMO space and no more new MMO types will be released?
Yes it has been explored, you won't get any 100% original MMOS, just new MMOS with couple of features thrown in, which are different but nothing revolutionary.
Trust me, as a fan of mmorpgs, you really don't want that to happen. As I said to you before, if the studios that feed our genre do not innovate, there will come a time when there is no more genre to speak of. This is true with all forms of entertainment. Stagnation will always lead to death. And baby, we be stagnating!
If you are willing to just sit back and consume the same meal over and over again that may or may not contain a shiny new spice every once in a while, then you are a part of the reason that we are not getting anything original.
We as mmorpg gamers shouldn't be settling for the bare minimum. If we do, that's all we're gonna get on the plate.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
"Yes, the game follows a currently VERY popular MMO-formula. But I mean look at any other genre at the moment and you'll quickly see the same patterns in game design. I don't get why people are waiting for this holy grail to pop up out of nowhere to please you all (which is impossible). From what I've seen in videos of Rift it looks to me like they're not trying to reinvent the wheel but they're taking something that's been proven popular and something that works and continues to build on it. I don't neccesarily see this is a bad thing. Because when it comes down to it, what makes an MMO great?"
This somewhat summing up the past, present and future of the MMO industry. It is the infinity rail that will at some point of time driving people mad and ultimately defeated its purpose, which is entertainment.
Ahhh, now allot becomes clear, i knew something felt really familiar and now i know what it is, it's the damn animation bug that was already in Warhammer and that drove me totally nuts (you hit 5 times the hotkey and you get 5 animations but only 1 registered hit). I can't fucking believe the same damn bug made it into a completely different game.
I thought the Art Style and stuff also felt familiar but that didn't bother me that much.
To be completely honest i don't like it, if they can't fix the animation bug since long into WAR and they still screw it up with a new project they really seem to suck in the development department.
I didn't read much into it up until now because i thought: Well thats okay because it's beta but now i can say, screw this shit.
Ahhh, now allot becomes clear, i knew something felt really familiar and now i know what it is, it's the damn animation bug that was already in Warhammer and that drove me totally nuts (you hit 5 times the hotkey and you get 5 animations but only 1 registered hit). I can't fucking believe the same damn bug made it into a completely different game.
I thought the Art Style and stuff also felt familiar but that didn't bother me that much.
To be completely honest i don't like it, if they can't fix the animation bug since long into WAR and they still screw it up with a new project they really seem to suck in the development department.
I didn't read much into it up until now because i thought: Well thats okay because it's beta but now i can say, screw this shit.
I am not in beta 1, 2, or 3. Did this happen? Has it been fixed?
I have been a gaming skeptic for a long time now, only giving my money to a few companies that really had something polished and in my style of play and interest.
My RPG experiance goes back to pen and paper first edition Dungeons and Dragons. Almost all fantasy worlds are based losely on this original concept. From the pen and paper I played a few MUDS. After the muds I played the single player Ultima series. Then came Ultima Online and I had great fun with that for years. After that came Everquest 1 and all of it's expansions which kept me busy for another bunch of years. Then World of Warcraft hit and I played that for a bit and then EQ2 came out and I played that for a short time. EQ2 didn't feel right so I went back to EQ for a bit until The Burning Crusade flipped me back to World of Warcraft. Stayed with WoW thru Wrath of the Lich King and started to get the feeling the game had grown to big. THe amount of space the game world has along with the amount of servers means that the players are spread out to thinly.
I also put my foot in several mmo's that were not good. Horizons, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Anarchy Online, Mortal Online.
After getting burned by these newer games or finding them lacking in many ways I have been looking for something more polished again that has cherry picked the good from other games and made a fresh new oldschool playground of themepark entertainment. From what I have read there will be all elements in this game for big success and it can only get better from launch. They have the circle battles from ultima and EQ, they have the dungeons like EQ and WoW, they have the questing similar to WoW but move you along a little quicker and keep the progression going. Two starting areas with two different quest paths to go thru at the beginning. 10 dungeons with several difficulty ranges. Will need to complete all dungeons on regular then you can complete the level 50 versions then you will need to complete the elite versions then you will do raid 10 or 20 man tier 1 dungeons and then raid 10 or 20 man tier 2 dungeons and rift raids. This patterning and structure is from EQ and WoW.
I never played Warhammer but I heard it had some misguided direction but it also had some good stuff as well. I hope they cherry picked the good stuff from Warhammer and left the bad stuff because I actually think this game will succeed.
Warhammer uses a modified version of the dark age of camelot engine (which was released almost a decade ago) i got that quote from marc jacobs himself, shortly after i quit warhammer.
why? because its the same game with new visuals. same bugs.. I REPEAT.. THE SAME BUGS. if they cant fix the bug in 5 or 6 years, they are incapable of fixing it, i dont work on a game with inept designers, sorry. you pay good money, i expect quality programmers.
The bug that when you hit abutton to activate an ability sometimes doesnt register and then theres a big lag delay. that bug was warhammer, and dark age of camelot its predecessor. there is no excuse for this. and if its in RIFT i will never buy it, because i expect a hotkey to go off when i execute the keystroke. not seconds later. sorry its 2010, not 1998.
this game wont last long as its nothing special, just fancy graphics with a known formula. if i wanted that i would have never cancelled my wow account as i've about 5 or 6 level 80s. i'm not goign to level up again in ANY MMO, unless the endgame is worth it.
It's like saying WOW: Catalysm is the same as WOW.. lol. Who cares if it's the same as long as it is new, not like totally the same. New stuff, new content, new adventure and something to play till some new MMORPG comes out that's better.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." - Sun Tzu, Art of War
Comments
I'll have to agree with you on this. Rift is not bad nor good, it's just blah. It's nothing that anyone that has played mmo's for the last 7 or 8 yrs haven't been there done that. It surely doesn't do anything better than WOW and if you have played WAR/AOC/LOTR/AION and got burnt out very quickly on them, then RIFT will follow suite very quickly. The biggest problem with this game is that it didn't take that next step forward on any of the tried and true systems that all mmo's use.
HA! That is too funny. Thank you for that, sir.
while i agree with the overall spirit of many of your posts, i apparently can't let this certain VERY WRONG assumption go uncontested after seeing it a few too many times.
MMOs are:
%98 the same
%2 try SOME (SOME!) new elements, many of which conflict with the RPG elements that they can't let go of
%0 without RPG elements (and that's a serious flaw, and the reason why so many people WON'T play MMOs, afterall, single player RPG's as a whole, tend to the niche side).
if its true that 95% - 99% of all "MMO gamers" play traditional MMOs, its only because the ones that DON'T are EX-MMO gamers, who are tired of all that shit and refuse to waste more of their life away on them.
for one example, out of the 12 million WoW players, i bet its MANY MANY more than 12 million who have played it briefly, or up to a point and no longer play on a regular basis (just re-subbing long enough to remind themselves what a life waste it(they) are) or AT ALL.
almost all of the supposedly DIFFERENT MMOs (most are only different on the surface, and/or with just a few little twists that are fairly irrelevant) are recent entries, and have many OTHER problems that woulda killed them just the same even if their game was the 'tried and true' same old same old.
remember, people who love beef will generally REFUSE TO EAT RAW BEEF, even if its the only option. and it HAS been so far.
do you personally LOVE Rift? just interested why you seem so dedicated to proving that its ok to like more of the same (something you don't need to try to prove)?
my interest is simply to do my small part to squash this idea that you seem to promote that developers should stop making new experiences, because you've drawn the erroneous conclusion that nobody wants anything different. AND THAT VERY ATTITUDE IS WHAT'S GIVEN US 11 years of the same old same old over and over again.
i really don't think you want to promote that idea....... at least if you were conscious of what you are doing.
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And who told you theer are not enough new experinces? let me name few without even thinking.. Fallen Earth, Earth Rise releasing Feb 2011, perpetuum online, Darkfall, mortal online. So the new and fresh experince exists so i refuse to believe the over reaction of some people when they see another MMO trying an old and tested formula with couple of new things thrown in the mix.
All of the high profiled MMOS iof 2011 are going to be more of the same but doesn't mean they do not bring anything new to the genre. All of these MMOS are trying to do something different and yet keep the classic feel of MMOS to it. there is so much doom and gloom on forums as if devs stopped making different MMO all together. No they are here, yes they are from small indie devs and do not generate so much hype but they EXIST. It would be better if all these people who are 'looking for fresh experince' put their money where there mouth is and sub to these MMOS and enjoy themselves.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
i'm aware of all you named and played them all except Perpetuum and of course EarthRise. i know about both, and neither will be my cup of tea. especially Earthrise. i've played virtually every non-asian 3D MMO.
all the different ones have problems. as many great things as there are about Darkfall i've only played it 3 months because it has serious problems in my eyes too. THEY ALL DO.
there aren't enough different MMOs out there to statistically bring about even ONE that i can call home. THAT's why there aren't enough for me. and there WON'T be enough until every fan of every gameplay genre has not only ONE MMO that has their kind of gameplay, but until there are enough to choose from OF THAT TYPE that at least one of them has all their other mechanics and quality thresholds satisfied.
the 1st iterations of good ideas (and not even one MMO yet has had a good enough basic gameplay premise for me) are statistically (and almost necessarily) poorly implemented.
the basics of EQ was (in hindsight) apparently a great thing that had vast subscriptions possbilities, but it took many companies many tries before WoW came along and (apparently, according to statistics) did things " RIGHT " (at least commercially speaking) about 6 years later.
all these new things being tried may take way MORE than 6 years (not many Blizzard level devs out there with such builtin fanbases and lore built up from many years), and many more iterations before they are up to a certain quality threshold demanded by the potentially sizeable groups that would be interested in such game types.
AND NO I AM NOT GONNA EAT RAW BEEF, that wouldn't help much anyways, cuz while it might enable more indie devs and such, it'd teach companies they can get away with murder as long as they try something, ANYthing different.
i'll patiently wait for something where it all comes together PROPERLY.
and as far as you commanding me to have fun is concerned......
i wish it was that easy. too bad you don't have that power. 8)
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I named 6 titles without even thinking and i am sure there are more but ofcourse they are not good enough and they will never be. And i disagree that there is not enough choice. problem is that the only good MMO that exists is in your mind. So even if you can choose out of 10 titles right now it is not enough, compare that to high profiled themepark MMOS and total is more or less same. There is quite a balance in MMOS variety if you ask me but people just love to complain and throw tantrums, that is more entertaining than playing a MMO itself.
That is why Earthrise will burn too because people just love to complain and when something different comes along its never given its due chance.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
What about EVE? The game is very different from the rest of the genre's painfully similar offerings. Yet somehow, CCP has one the highest number of subs with respect to P2P western games.
Make no mistake, people want new and innovative, that much is obvious. Naming a few games that have not taken off or have just released or (as in one of your examples) has not even released yet, doesn't change this fact. You haven't stumbled upon some sort of barometric nugget with the titles you named. Don't kid yourself.
It's awesome that you and many others don't mind eating the same sandwich day after day, month after month, year after year, but please recognize that there are a lot of us who don't appreciate that kind of menu.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
the supposedly 'different' MMOs are a EXTREMELY TINY FRACTIONAL number compared to the number of same old same old MMOs (why you wanna limit it to high profile ones anyways?) .
the idea of there being a balance of different kinds of MMOs is totally laughable. do you REALLY believe they aren't WEIGHTED IN THE EXTREME to the same old formula?
and as mentioned, what the 'different' MMOs try to do different is insignificant and often incompatible with the MAJORITY of their features which ARE THE SAME. how come they are all RPGs?
non MMO games have all kinds of other options that are not represented usually AT ALL in the MMO space, and the few MMOs that add a TOUCH of those elements totally screw it up.
really, what is your point?
if complaining that you are not happy with something is wrong,
then stop being a hypocrite by complaining how you aren't happy with all the posts and opinions of mine and others who don't agree with you. give it a freakin' rest. do you live on this forum?
are you paid by Trion? you're clogging up every thread related to Rift.
you invalidated nothing that i said. you can't invalidate my tastes and opinions.
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Personal attacks are last resort when you have nothing better to say. looks like i hit a nerve. I have seen you posting everywhere on Rift forums too are you a shill of some MMO company? are you paid to spread this dribble all over the forums? see what i did there..two can play that game pal.
How am i being a hypocrite though? do you even know that word means? i enjoy themepark as much a sandbox MMO. Keep waiting though for this supposedly 'different MMO' grumble and grind your teeth for as long as you want because even if such a MMO ever came along it is not going to be enough. if you think games likePerpetuum, Fallen Earth, Darkfall, Ryzom etc are not good enough than nothing will be. For someone so desperate to play a 'different MMO' you surely are very choosey aren't ya?
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Bite Me
I'm not complaining, and I am currently subbed to both EVE and Darkfall. I consider myself very fortunate to have two wicked MMOs to call home. Most people are not as lucky as me.
EVE took some time to gain momentum to become the success that it is, Darkfall could follow a similar path, only time will tell.
I'm thrilled that you are content with what the industry is dishing out these days, but there are many that are beyond frustrated. All forms of entertainment require innovation in order to survive. MMORPGs are no different.
Stagnation leads to death, which then leads to rot, whether you like it or not.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't care if Rift has stolen features from other games like WoW and warhammer as long as the developers have the common sense to keep the game good once they've got it. World of Warcraft used to be AMAZING in it's launch, after the expansion packs it's pure trash. The only people still getting into it are those with good friends in the game or children.
Rift LOOKS decent enough to me, there are things I crave about the previous games (EQ2 Ruined, WoW Ruined, WAR Dead.) and there is potential for this game to fill those gaps. It will not kill anything, and if what all the doomsayers are claiming is true then it could very well fail like Warhammer did as NOTHING will be able to steal WoW's playerbase. The only people interested in MMOs these days are people frustrated with their previous games. The majority of us are in the same boat when jumping around from game to game, but unfortunately I think the MMO community has become a bunch of whiny frustrated assholes who enjoy trolling each other more than actually trying to get into any of the games they look at and thus will never actually find a newer game to settle in for more than 2 months. I think that's why I've chosen to stay away from MMORPGs for a while, I haven't touched one in on almost a year and Rift is the only one I've seen as of recent that shows any promise at all... that's not saying much however..
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
So many clueless trolls..'Oh look that SS looks like WoW skill icons,character portraits,health bar then it must be a WoW/War clone,I should make a thread about it'.No need to play of course,no need to level a bit and explore the game,a SS or a video is more than enough..
This topic piqued my interest, though not because it comes across as slightly trollish.
I recall around may/june this year someone commenting that this is the game warhammer should have been. I'm guessing they meant a PVE oriented mmo, with some pvp focus, rather than a heavily PVP oriented game with some half-assed pve system tacked on just for flavour.
The only thing that really reminds me of warhammer is that the animations from early alpha have that rigid look to them. I'm just hoping the archery focused souls dont have that stupid, permanent shooting at the stars-even- at- point- blank -range-effect! Oh yeah, the other thing, speaking of animations, the pets also from an alpha/early closed beta had the same wooden movement as the white lion pet, reminded me of the nwn summoned pets circa 2002.
If someone could find a link of some up-to-date footage of pet animations I'd really appreciate it (gonna check youtube in a sec anyways!).
Back to my point, a repackaged version of war may not be such a bad thing so long as they don't include the bad stuff
because the guy was saying how there was supposedly some balance between 'different' and same old same old.
an extremely oblivious statement to the actually reality.
my whole point was that they DON'T offer anything even remotely close to what i'm looking for.
you REALLY don't understand how statistics work? that if there were higher numbers there's a higher chance one of them could satisfy me? come on. lol
you're calling a whole group of people snotty....... in a very snotty & confused sounding message.
please read everything you are responding to.
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Without dragging myself into this mess to define what RIFT is. All i can offer you guys is this. RIFT will last for about 3-6 months just like War/Aion. Period!
Now, claiming Trion Devs lurking these forum defending thier creation. Right indeed they are! I came across to some and have argued with our fists!
@OP, i understand that's it is a very cheap tatics by repackaging an MMO to make a quick buck and you are absolutely right in this case. But isn't that all MMO somewhat mirrored themselves from the MMO genre? Rift is no excception
As stated in some of my posts on RIFT official forum. Rift is entertaining and easy to play. For this RIFT is targeting the younger MMO generation, not MMO Veteran.
never so many wanted a game to fail so bad just so the top dog can stay the top dog. brand loyalty ftw
The hate is strong in this one. I don't see why people are already hunting down RIFT with pitchforks and hoping it will fail, do you guys hate MMO's this much?
Yes, the game follows a currently VERY popular MMO-formula. But I mean look at any other genre at the moment and you'll quickly see the same patterns in game design. I don't get why people are waiting for this holy grail to pop up out of nowhere to please you all (which is impossible). From what I've seen in videos of Rift it looks to me like they're not trying to reinvent the wheel but they're taking something that's been proven popular and something that works and continues to build on it. I don't neccesarily see this is a bad thing. Because when it comes down to it, what makes an MMO great?
Oh right, IT'S THE PEOPLE YOU SPEND THE TIME PLAYING IT WITH!
Sharing success in raids or PVP is the shit! With good friends you either know IRL or met through the game. Personally I'll give this one a proper whirl at launch as it looks to me like it's a solid and wellpolished MMO that's trying to deliver an enjoyable experience. What's been drawing me in the most is the soul/class system, looks great and having the ability to play different playstyles on the same toon really speaks well for Rift's lifespan as an MMO, couple this with good updates as far as content goes and a fun PVP experience and I'm sold.
This is just hopes and dreams but I don't think it's too farfetched as for what we could expect imo.
Please cut out the baiting. Thanks.
Trust me, as a fan of mmorpgs, you really don't want that to happen. As I said to you before, if the studios that feed our genre do not innovate, there will come a time when there is no more genre to speak of. This is true with all forms of entertainment. Stagnation will always lead to death. And baby, we be stagnating!
If you are willing to just sit back and consume the same meal over and over again that may or may not contain a shiny new spice every once in a while, then you are a part of the reason that we are not getting anything original.
We as mmorpg gamers shouldn't be settling for the bare minimum. If we do, that's all we're gonna get on the plate.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Ahhh, now allot becomes clear, i knew something felt really familiar and now i know what it is, it's the damn animation bug that was already in Warhammer and that drove me totally nuts (you hit 5 times the hotkey and you get 5 animations but only 1 registered hit). I can't fucking believe the same damn bug made it into a completely different game.
I thought the Art Style and stuff also felt familiar but that didn't bother me that much.
To be completely honest i don't like it, if they can't fix the animation bug since long into WAR and they still screw it up with a new project they really seem to suck in the development department.
I didn't read much into it up until now because i thought: Well thats okay because it's beta but now i can say, screw this shit.
I am not in beta 1, 2, or 3. Did this happen? Has it been fixed?
I have been a gaming skeptic for a long time now, only giving my money to a few companies that really had something polished and in my style of play and interest.
My RPG experiance goes back to pen and paper first edition Dungeons and Dragons. Almost all fantasy worlds are based losely on this original concept. From the pen and paper I played a few MUDS. After the muds I played the single player Ultima series. Then came Ultima Online and I had great fun with that for years. After that came Everquest 1 and all of it's expansions which kept me busy for another bunch of years. Then World of Warcraft hit and I played that for a bit and then EQ2 came out and I played that for a short time. EQ2 didn't feel right so I went back to EQ for a bit until The Burning Crusade flipped me back to World of Warcraft. Stayed with WoW thru Wrath of the Lich King and started to get the feeling the game had grown to big. THe amount of space the game world has along with the amount of servers means that the players are spread out to thinly.
I also put my foot in several mmo's that were not good. Horizons, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Anarchy Online, Mortal Online.
After getting burned by these newer games or finding them lacking in many ways I have been looking for something more polished again that has cherry picked the good from other games and made a fresh new oldschool playground of themepark entertainment. From what I have read there will be all elements in this game for big success and it can only get better from launch. They have the circle battles from ultima and EQ, they have the dungeons like EQ and WoW, they have the questing similar to WoW but move you along a little quicker and keep the progression going. Two starting areas with two different quest paths to go thru at the beginning. 10 dungeons with several difficulty ranges. Will need to complete all dungeons on regular then you can complete the level 50 versions then you will need to complete the elite versions then you will do raid 10 or 20 man tier 1 dungeons and then raid 10 or 20 man tier 2 dungeons and rift raids. This patterning and structure is from EQ and WoW.
I never played Warhammer but I heard it had some misguided direction but it also had some good stuff as well. I hope they cherry picked the good stuff from Warhammer and left the bad stuff because I actually think this game will succeed.
Warhammer uses a modified version of the dark age of camelot engine (which was released almost a decade ago) i got that quote from marc jacobs himself, shortly after i quit warhammer.
why? because its the same game with new visuals. same bugs.. I REPEAT.. THE SAME BUGS. if they cant fix the bug in 5 or 6 years, they are incapable of fixing it, i dont work on a game with inept designers, sorry. you pay good money, i expect quality programmers.
The bug that when you hit abutton to activate an ability sometimes doesnt register and then theres a big lag delay. that bug was warhammer, and dark age of camelot its predecessor. there is no excuse for this. and if its in RIFT i will never buy it, because i expect a hotkey to go off when i execute the keystroke. not seconds later. sorry its 2010, not 1998.
this game wont last long as its nothing special, just fancy graphics with a known formula. if i wanted that i would have never cancelled my wow account as i've about 5 or 6 level 80s. i'm not goign to level up again in ANY MMO, unless the endgame is worth it.
It's like saying WOW: Catalysm is the same as WOW.. lol. Who cares if it's the same as long as it is new, not like totally the same. New stuff, new content, new adventure and something to play till some new MMORPG comes out that's better.
The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." - Sun Tzu, Art of War