Hmmm thinking about it wasn't there a role-playing game made by GW and set in the WH40k universe called Rogue Trader?.... let's have a look at the character sheet from that game...
They have the same name, are the same setting, with the same lore. FFG's version is a pretty fun RPG as well. and the bottom line is levels work for a GW game. The new FFG edition is a GW game, I wanna be a Freebooter!!!
I just hope it plays more like Global Agenda then the mindless button spamming mmo that is WoW. All I want is a few abilities even at max level. I do not want to see bars and bars of abilities at higher levels. Its just mindboggling that people can keep up with that many abilities and casual players just want something simple. Like Global Agenda you have a main weapon, melee weapon, a special weapons, a few devices, and a moral ability. That is it and that is all I really need. I do not need 50 different abilities to press to kill a guy that is just downright boring. I have never played at higher level in MMOs because they are all the same. You get close to a guy and press all these buttons until his health is to zero the only difference between lower and higher levels is in higher levels it takes longer to kill guy and you're pressing more buttons to do so. If they make the game like Dawn of War II, but make it a 3rd person shooter / MMO I would be happy.
I could really care less on much of how they go about adapting the rules and progression. So what if its two faction, my friends and I play WH40k Deathwatch Rpg all the time and every single Mission we have ran has only two factions. Us and all the fkers we kill. But really so what? If the game is fun I dont care if they changed the lore behind it to fit a new storyline, so long as it makes sense who cares? We literally know nothing about this title and they have stated doznes of times that when they release the info on the hows and whys it will make sense and give good reason for what they are doing. And the fact that GW is heavy on the decision making with these guys reguarding what they do with their IP I think they will be just fine how ever they go with it. I for one am going to give them their leeway and let them explain it to me before I cry foul and start bad mouthing a game 3 years or more from release.
There's so much wrong with this thread it's painful to try and read it all.
First off, how does an MMO who is striving to be action oriented, with minimal user interface, stressing vehicle and gun combat sound ANYTHING like warcraft?
Second, there isn't room for 3 "factions" in the warhammer IP. It's either one side vs the other as has been laid out extensively before me, or total free for all. There are no combinations of races/armies who would lend themselves to 3 different sides. Try to imagine, which army would pair up with the eldar to fight against the imperium and orks/chaos? No one!
A weak truce between armies who want to keep the Sargos sector as it is against Chaos, who wants to turn it into a second eye of terror, would make a lot of sense. As for the argument against free for all, that opens the door to player-made alliances that either completely crush an already weaker army, or just completely go against the IP. For example, imperium teaming up with chaos to stomp eldar, who on it's own is weaker than either of the two. There is no guarantee for balance with 3 factions, just look at the old English Parliament between the Nobles, the Church and the Peasents.
And finally, with regard to the VP wanting the game to "appeal to the Warcraft crowd," I have one word to describe what is on his mind.
Facebook.
World of Warcraft may have 12 million subscribers, but facebook has in the HUNDREDS of millions of users. Social networking is like a giant, all-consuming plague on this planet, and any business person worth their salt can see the COLLOSSAL marketability of a game that involves a social networking base. The vast majority of World of Warcraft players didn't come for the game, they came for the friends. And they're staying for the same reason. The goal now of any upstart MMO is to make at least a decent chunk of players come for the game, and then make them and their friends stay for each other.
Literally, those of you in the know, the Vice President of THQ literally said in an interview when they first announced Warhammer 40k that the transition from WoW to Warhammer 40k will be seemless and no stopgaps will be had. They're literally aiming for 1million of WoW's subscriber base. If this isn't closer to a WoW copy than Alods, i don't know what is.
So, why do you still go "ZOMG i can't wait for this game!" when they release more and more horrible gameplay videos for this game?
[edit]: Just to point out, you are NOT a Warhammer 40k fan, or Warhammer in general, if you're waiting on this game because it's "Warhammer 40k". Warhammer fans are FAR more intelligent than to give money to a company that is trying to COMPLETELY destroy the IP as a whole.
first off, the 2013-2014 release or 40k puts it well past the end of wows effective lifespan, cata was the final expansion and will be played out before 2012 let alone 2013.
blizzards currently working on project titan to replace wow around 2013, so if anything, claim 40k is a project titan clone.
its 2 factions at launch because, well, look how massive 40k factions are, each one has dozens of unit types, then slap in vehicles, various pet npcs, say youre a commander, with a squad of marines ect as pets. get 2 factions right, then milk it by releasing double faction pack expansions every year or 2 until they have all 20+
Almost every major GW event have ahd two distinct sides... usualy championed by humans on one side anc chaos on the other... only race usualy keept truley neutral is/was tyranids.
A mmorpg is not an "event".
Event is a timed happening that has a beginning and an end. A mmorpg is a world, a setting where events continually take place. Design solutions appropriate for an "event" may not be appropriate for a "world". It is like arguing that since all the football matches feature only two teams we really don't need the leagues and should abolish all but two teams that would incorporate all the players.
Are you really trying to say that any of these mmo worlds right now take place over the matter of years? cause thats what 40k conficts can last for, this game could take place over a 100 year conflict for all you whiners know.
Originally posted by skeaser
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
[edit]: Just to point out, you are NOT a Warhammer 40k fan, or Warhammer in general, if you're waiting on this game because it's "Warhammer 40k". Warhammer fans are FAR more intelligent than to give money to a company that is trying to COMPLETELY destroy the IP as a whole.
This.
I was stoked, until I realized they aren't even trying to make it feel like 40k. 2 factions is the big killer for me.
Ya, imagine that, a game based on teh tabletop game that focuses on 2 sides fighting each other is focusing on 2 sides fighting each other, this is shocking.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
While I hate what that guy said... it's how and why ALL AAA MMOs are made these days. It doesn't make it right but thats how it is and thats why a lot of them fail as they are just trying to steal WoW's player. It's like what happened with new coke in the 80s.
I do agree if they add most factions and just make it two sided like War was it' will be full of fail, but if they were to limit it to the imperium of man and the forces of choas(demons/hertics/chaos marines) and then add the other factions slowly I would buy it. Hopifully they don't do something dumb like add orks to chaos or elder to the imperium.
Though even if they do make it wow with bolt rifles and chain swords, I would probably still play it as Scifi MMOs are few and far between.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
My idea on how the races should be set up is. Tau/Eldar, Dark Eldar/Chaos, Space Marines/Imperial Guard, and Orks/Squats. Yes I said Squats. This could be there comeback to glory! Orks and Squats working together to defeat the Hive Mind. I don't know what other people may think, but I think its a great idea.
@quotheraving That a very bad analogy, but anyways fine lets leave the Orks to play with themselves. So Tau/Eldar, Chaos/Dark Eldar, Space Marines/ Imperial Guard, and Orks. Still I think a four way battle is better then a anti-fluff two way battle. There is good races and bad races, but not all like to play nice with each other.
I am a huuuuuge warhammer 40K fan. That said I won't be playing this game unless they have a focus on open world pvp, multiple factions, harsh death penalty, player accountability, minimal instancing, etc etc.
That a very bad analogy, but anyways fine lets leave the Orks to play with themselves. So Tau/Eldar, Chaos/Dark Eldar, Space Marines/ Imperial Guard, and Orks. Still I think a four way battle is better then a anti-fluff two way battle. There is good races and bad races, but not all like to play nice with each other.
Here is a quote from the linked article that kind of shows GWs stance on allainces in the 40k world and the other related fluff from the Eye of Terror.
"The campaign was hard fought, and senior Games Workshop executives have commented that the events of the campaign will set a cornerstone to the rich background of the Warhammer 40,000 universe for years to come."
I mean even the names Destruction v Order are a construct of GW before even WoW was released. (Destruction sounds cooler than disorder but the fact remains the same)
In all of the active threads here, I and others have reiterated time and time again, that 2 factions not only works with 40K it IS 40k in some circumstances. any long-time GW enthusiast will tell you that alliances are not uncommon in the 40k world and the eye of terror campaign of 2003 is only one of several examples which I wont list since they are referenced earlier in this thread and on other active threads in this forum.
Here is a quote from the linked article that kind of shows GWs stance on these allainces and the other related fluff from the Eye of Terror.
"The campaign was hard fought, and senior Games Workshop executives have commented that the events of the campaign will set a cornerstone to the rich background of the Warhammer 40,000 universe for years to come."
Here is a quote from the linked article that kind of shows GWs stance on these allainces and the other related fluff from the Eye of Terror.
"The campaign was hard fought, and senior Games Workshop executives have commented that the events of the campaign will set a cornerstone to the rich background of the Warhammer 40,000 universe for years to come."
Personally I think it would play better with four sided then two sided. There is 2 main sides The Imperium of Man and The Forces of Chaos. Then two other sides these being the Orks and Tau/Eldar. Orks can go and fight alongside Chaos with an "alliance" or they can go and have there own agenda and not fight alongside Chaos. With Tau/Eldar its the same thing too. They can fight alongside The Imperium of Man or can completely ignore then if they need assistance. So there is two sides but part of the side can do its own thing or help the side they are on. All of this so it feels more like a fluff alliance then a happy happy joy joy alliance.
I wouldn't say noone cares about the game. Where I'm concerned I haven't seen enough on the game to form a solid opinion on whether or not I want to give a shit or not. Maybe once they release more info. As for it targeting it's game toward WoW players... It doesn't bother me at all.
Squats and Orks is a very unlikely combination for a couple of reasons.
First up Squats were a part of the Imperium of man and were removed from the 40k game .. apparently the Tyrannids ate em.
Second both the Squats and the race that was created to possibly take the place of 'Dwarves in space', the Demiurg, had a bitter loathing for the green skins. It'd be like the Eldar making an alliance with the Necrons.
It's a real shame that they did remove the squats, rather than develop them more. Sure they were.. ahem... DWARFS IN SPAAAACE! - but they also had the potential to be pretty neat, with their main forces being Bikers and Terminators. Oh, and there were chaos versions as well.
Regular Squat terminator:
Chaos Squat terminator:
They're gone though, and never coming back. I didn't know about the Demiurg, but they looked pretty cool actually - it would make sense that they were the "next step" for the squats, especially if their worlds had been eaten by the 'nids.
...I think I might actually have a couple of squat minis lying around somewhere...
Almost every major GW event have ahd two distinct sides... usualy championed by humans on one side anc chaos on the other... only race usualy keept truley neutral is/was tyranids.
And the Necrons.
As to the Wow remarks, I'm actually not very concerned about them. All that says to me is that they don't intend to attempt to reinvent the wheel in terms of UI and basic game play.
As to the whole two faction hubris, I've been less than enchanted by the way the WH40k IP has been handled as of late. It does seem that GW has a bit more of a laissez-faire attitude with their IP when it comes to the realm of computer games. I feel they are sodomizing the integrity of the WH40K IP to cash in on the huge dump trucks full of money they feel they can make. GW sanctioning the making of a two faction game is disturbing. Seeing THQ and Vigil explain that "Yes there are only two factions but don't worry, our story line gives a very good reason for this", feels to we long time fans of the Warhammer universe like watching George Lucas explain why he decided to change the fact that Han Solo shot first in the legendary Greedo death scene, when he remastred the first SW films.
However, all that said, while I have grave reservations about this title, I have to admit, they are based far more off my personal paranoia than off of any real facts about the game. Until we get a bunch more concrete information about this game we shouldn't judge it as a total loss.
Let's make sure Dark Milennnium really deserves this:
Before we order the Exterminatus.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Yeah, except it had about 1/4 the features of EQ, and the features it did have were incredibly dumbed down. Hence why most veteran MMORPG were tired of it within hours.
We're tired of WoW clones that don't bring anything new to the table. I was tired of EQ from 2001, I was tired of WoW the day it launched. Needless to say, in 2011, I'm STILL tired of it. As is almost everyone.
I give a damn. The ip alone will have me at the very least attempting a trial once one is released. As for the lack of three faction? I couldn't care less, I could play DAoC for that.
I give a damn. The ip alone will have me at the very least attempting a trial once one is released. As for the lack of three faction? I couldn't care less, I could play DAoC for that.
Any PvP game without a third faction is doomed to be heavily flawed.
Comments
Uhm, FFG Rogue trader and GW Rogue Trader aren't the same thing.
They have the same name, are the same setting, with the same lore. FFG's version is a pretty fun RPG as well. and the bottom line is levels work for a GW game. The new FFG edition is a GW game, I wanna be a Freebooter!!!
I just hope it plays more like Global Agenda then the mindless button spamming mmo that is WoW. All I want is a few abilities even at max level. I do not want to see bars and bars of abilities at higher levels. Its just mindboggling that people can keep up with that many abilities and casual players just want something simple. Like Global Agenda you have a main weapon, melee weapon, a special weapons, a few devices, and a moral ability. That is it and that is all I really need. I do not need 50 different abilities to press to kill a guy that is just downright boring. I have never played at higher level in MMOs because they are all the same. You get close to a guy and press all these buttons until his health is to zero the only difference between lower and higher levels is in higher levels it takes longer to kill guy and you're pressing more buttons to do so. If they make the game like Dawn of War II, but make it a 3rd person shooter / MMO I would be happy.
I could really care less on much of how they go about adapting the rules and progression. So what if its two faction, my friends and I play WH40k Deathwatch Rpg all the time and every single Mission we have ran has only two factions. Us and all the fkers we kill. But really so what? If the game is fun I dont care if they changed the lore behind it to fit a new storyline, so long as it makes sense who cares? We literally know nothing about this title and they have stated doznes of times that when they release the info on the hows and whys it will make sense and give good reason for what they are doing. And the fact that GW is heavy on the decision making with these guys reguarding what they do with their IP I think they will be just fine how ever they go with it. I for one am going to give them their leeway and let them explain it to me before I cry foul and start bad mouthing a game 3 years or more from release.
There's so much wrong with this thread it's painful to try and read it all.
First off, how does an MMO who is striving to be action oriented, with minimal user interface, stressing vehicle and gun combat sound ANYTHING like warcraft?
Second, there isn't room for 3 "factions" in the warhammer IP. It's either one side vs the other as has been laid out extensively before me, or total free for all. There are no combinations of races/armies who would lend themselves to 3 different sides. Try to imagine, which army would pair up with the eldar to fight against the imperium and orks/chaos? No one!
A weak truce between armies who want to keep the Sargos sector as it is against Chaos, who wants to turn it into a second eye of terror, would make a lot of sense. As for the argument against free for all, that opens the door to player-made alliances that either completely crush an already weaker army, or just completely go against the IP. For example, imperium teaming up with chaos to stomp eldar, who on it's own is weaker than either of the two. There is no guarantee for balance with 3 factions, just look at the old English Parliament between the Nobles, the Church and the Peasents.
And finally, with regard to the VP wanting the game to "appeal to the Warcraft crowd," I have one word to describe what is on his mind.
Facebook.
World of Warcraft may have 12 million subscribers, but facebook has in the HUNDREDS of millions of users. Social networking is like a giant, all-consuming plague on this planet, and any business person worth their salt can see the COLLOSSAL marketability of a game that involves a social networking base. The vast majority of World of Warcraft players didn't come for the game, they came for the friends. And they're staying for the same reason. The goal now of any upstart MMO is to make at least a decent chunk of players come for the game, and then make them and their friends stay for each other.
first off, the 2013-2014 release or 40k puts it well past the end of wows effective lifespan, cata was the final expansion and will be played out before 2012 let alone 2013.
blizzards currently working on project titan to replace wow around 2013, so if anything, claim 40k is a project titan clone.
its 2 factions at launch because, well, look how massive 40k factions are, each one has dozens of unit types, then slap in vehicles, various pet npcs, say youre a commander, with a squad of marines ect as pets. get 2 factions right, then milk it by releasing double faction pack expansions every year or 2 until they have all 20+
Are you really trying to say that any of these mmo worlds right now take place over the matter of years? cause thats what 40k conficts can last for, this game could take place over a 100 year conflict for all you whiners know.
Ya, imagine that, a game based on teh tabletop game that focuses on 2 sides fighting each other is focusing on 2 sides fighting each other, this is shocking.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
While I hate what that guy said... it's how and why ALL AAA MMOs are made these days. It doesn't make it right but thats how it is and thats why a lot of them fail as they are just trying to steal WoW's player. It's like what happened with new coke in the 80s.
I do agree if they add most factions and just make it two sided like War was it' will be full of fail, but if they were to limit it to the imperium of man and the forces of choas(demons/hertics/chaos marines) and then add the other factions slowly I would buy it. Hopifully they don't do something dumb like add orks to chaos or elder to the imperium.
Though even if they do make it wow with bolt rifles and chain swords, I would probably still play it as Scifi MMOs are few and far between.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
My idea on how the races should be set up is. Tau/Eldar, Dark Eldar/Chaos,
Space Marines/Imperial Guard, and Orks/Squats. Yes I said Squats. This could be there comeback to glory! Orks and Squats working together to defeat the Hive Mind. I don't know what other people may think, but I think its a great idea.
I'm trying to copy WoW!
-I am here to perform logic
@quotheraving
That a very bad analogy, but anyways fine lets leave the Orks to play with themselves. So Tau/Eldar, Chaos/Dark Eldar, Space Marines/ Imperial Guard, and Orks. Still I think a four way battle is better then a anti-fluff two way battle. There is good races and bad races, but not all like to play nice with each other.
I am a huuuuuge warhammer 40K fan. That said I won't be playing this game unless they have a focus on open world pvp, multiple factions, harsh death penalty, player accountability, minimal instancing, etc etc.
Look up eye of terror
@Unicornicus
What am I looking for? What does the Eye of Terror have to do with anything I just said?
2 faction is in no way whatsoever anti-fluff... look up eye of terror.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eye_of_Terror_campaign
Here is a quote from the linked article that kind of shows GWs stance on allainces in the 40k world and the other related fluff from the Eye of Terror.
"The campaign was hard fought, and senior Games Workshop executives have commented that the events of the campaign will set a cornerstone to the rich background of the Warhammer 40,000 universe for years to come."
I mean even the names Destruction v Order are a construct of GW before even WoW was released. (Destruction sounds cooler than disorder but the fact remains the same)
In all of the active threads here, I and others have reiterated time and time again, that 2 factions not only works with 40K it IS 40k in some circumstances. any long-time GW enthusiast will tell you that alliances are not uncommon in the 40k world and the eye of terror campaign of 2003 is only one of several examples which I wont list since they are referenced earlier in this thread and on other active threads in this forum.
Here is a quote from the linked article that kind of shows GWs stance on these allainces and the other related fluff from the Eye of Terror.
"The campaign was hard fought, and senior Games Workshop executives have commented that the events of the campaign will set a cornerstone to the rich background of the Warhammer 40,000 universe for years to come."
Here is a quote from the linked article that kind of shows GWs stance on these allainces and the other related fluff from the Eye of Terror.
"The campaign was hard fought, and senior Games Workshop executives have commented that the events of the campaign will set a cornerstone to the rich background of the Warhammer 40,000 universe for years to come."
@Unicornicus
Personally I think it would play better with four sided then two sided. There is 2 main sides The Imperium of Man and The Forces of Chaos. Then two other sides these being the Orks and Tau/Eldar. Orks can go and fight alongside Chaos with an "alliance" or they can go and have there own agenda and not fight alongside Chaos. With Tau/Eldar its the same thing too. They can fight alongside The Imperium of Man or can completely ignore then if they need assistance. So there is two sides but part of the side can do its own thing or help the side they are on. All of this so it feels more like a fluff alliance then a happy happy joy joy alliance.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Yup, sounds like a WoW clone to me.
Needing is Wanting...
Wanting is Coveting...
Coveting is Sinning...
I am SO going to Hell.
A wow clone oO ?
Some people....just mix things up in their mind that makes no sense, i feel iam being trolled here...
Ill bite:
In what way this is a wow clone ?
FPS versus MMO major diffrence right there...
Do you know anything about wow ?
Have you read up the information about DM at all :P ?
Check out some movies and come back here m8, this aint a wow clone even if they used to same races and names lol.
By your standard all games must be a wow clone then, wich leads that wow is cloned from EQ and EQ is cloned from UO etc etc etc.
Pls stop saying stuff like wow clones dude, you only embarres yourself witt it.
It's a real shame that they did remove the squats, rather than develop them more. Sure they were.. ahem... DWARFS IN SPAAAACE! - but they also had the potential to be pretty neat, with their main forces being Bikers and Terminators. Oh, and there were chaos versions as well.
Regular Squat terminator:
Chaos Squat terminator:
They're gone though, and never coming back. I didn't know about the Demiurg, but they looked pretty cool actually - it would make sense that they were the "next step" for the squats, especially if their worlds had been eaten by the 'nids.
...I think I might actually have a couple of squat minis lying around somewhere...
http://machineborn.guildportal.com - Now recruiting players!
Damn, another IP trashed by MMO devs who think they will get WoW players to play their WoW clone.
My gaming blog
And the Necrons.
As to the Wow remarks, I'm actually not very concerned about them. All that says to me is that they don't intend to attempt to reinvent the wheel in terms of UI and basic game play.
As to the whole two faction hubris, I've been less than enchanted by the way the WH40k IP has been handled as of late. It does seem that GW has a bit more of a laissez-faire attitude with their IP when it comes to the realm of computer games. I feel they are sodomizing the integrity of the WH40K IP to cash in on the huge dump trucks full of money they feel they can make. GW sanctioning the making of a two faction game is disturbing. Seeing THQ and Vigil explain that "Yes there are only two factions but don't worry, our story line gives a very good reason for this", feels to we long time fans of the Warhammer universe like watching George Lucas explain why he decided to change the fact that Han Solo shot first in the legendary Greedo death scene, when he remastred the first SW films.
However, all that said, while I have grave reservations about this title, I have to admit, they are based far more off my personal paranoia than off of any real facts about the game. Until we get a bunch more concrete information about this game we shouldn't judge it as a total loss.
Let's make sure Dark Milennnium really deserves this:
Before we order the Exterminatus.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Yeah, except it had about 1/4 the features of EQ, and the features it did have were incredibly dumbed down. Hence why most veteran MMORPG were tired of it within hours.
We're tired of WoW clones that don't bring anything new to the table. I was tired of EQ from 2001, I was tired of WoW the day it launched. Needless to say, in 2011, I'm STILL tired of it. As is almost everyone.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Any PvP game without a third faction is doomed to be heavily flawed.