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Rift - so many lazy development choices.

MargulisMargulis Member CommonPosts: 1,614

It seems like there are so many areas in this game where the devs decided to go the lazy route and not put in any effort to make a certain system either more innovative, fun, or engrossing.  It's really quite obvious and screams at a company not interested in putting out an amazing game, but more interested in making a quick buck.  So many things are copies of WOW, WAR, or EQ2, and I don't mean "this is in all mmo's" type of copies, I mean DIRECT copies almost instead of something unique to RIFT.  Here are a few examples of what I see to be lazy development and lack of willingness to put in the time to make something really great, or unique.

 

1.  Questing system - extremely boring, basic, mundane.

2.  Crafting system - Copy and paste WOW crafting, add a tiny option for augmenting items, and there you have it.

3.  Achievement system - Copy and paste WOW achievements, even down to the game windows, points, etc.

4.  Combat - Very boring combat with again no innovation, global cooldown, single targeting system, dated by 7-8 years.

5.  World lacking immersion - The world is small and lazy in design, hell there aren't even any openable doors! 

6.  PVP system - Copy and paste WOW and EQ2 with their battlegrounds.

7.  Game progression - Quest to level, then raid, that's it.  Again, dated by 7-10 years, it's way past time for there to be a focus beyond just end game raiding.

8.  Rifts - Very similar to WAR public quests and also somewhat repetitive and disappointing so far.

9.  Horribly unoriginal races to choose from.

10. One starting area for each faction.

11.  Game is to also be focused on reputation grinding, sigh.

12.  EXACT same item quality coloring / grade system as in WOW.

 

I'm sure I can add to this list, but that's all I can think of for right now, but still, that's WAY more than enough for a 2011 MMO that was supposed to be made on a 50 million dollar budget.

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Comments

  • ThamorisThamoris Member UncommonPosts: 686

    Booooo!

    Troll

  • SchockeySchockey Member UncommonPosts: 58

    Thanks for pepping us up. I do not care about the system, I am just tired of a cartoony game with little kids. This game will at least in my opinion bring in a more mature crowd. I would also add that wow did a lot of things right so why not copy some of their stuff??

  • ZeroxinZeroxin Member UncommonPosts: 2,515

    Originally posted by Thamoris

    Booooo!

    Troll

    The funny thing is that he's actually right. There was this one statement I heard one of the developers say, it went something like this; " ...We have so many developers from so many different games that when we were making the game all of us knew what worked and didn't work in the games we had made before..." . Basically Rift is an amalgamation of everything that worked in the MMOs before it, now that's not a bad thing in and of itself but when it kills the feeling of originality of a game ...yea...

    We don't know yet if they might pull a Blizzard because that's what they seem to be trying to do.

    This is not a game.

  • FearGXFearGX Member Posts: 317

    Quite funny that the points you bring up, saying they were all copied elements from WoW and WAR. These are the bread and butter of a MMO and games in general. MMO's play like that, you have questing, Rifts or Public Questing which encourages group play and server input, you have achievements, which hey I'd rather it in then not added as a feature at all. The graphics are very good and polished for an MMO in todays standard. It's more modern, it contains core features the MMO player and community are fond with and more. The game let's you play so many different class combinations, to build a perfect character, that is something unique I've found.

     

    You make out these things in a MMO are all bad and should be tossed aside for a new model, but this is the model that works and MMO's have been building off of for a long time. There are some MMO's, like EVE for example who do it different, but it is rare in this industry. Saying Rift is a Copy and Paste of WoW, down to the UI, Achievement system, and copy past of WAR PQ's, how is this a problem, WoW was alot of copy paste from EQ. Seriously if the game is good, looks amazing, and offers alot of gameplay, who care's what it copied and build upon, If you don't like the game or it's development then move on. FFXIV tried a different approach and failed miserably. A new model of MMO is not an easy task to create. Guild Wars 2, Sw TOR, all are the same style of model, Has quests, has group play, whether it pvp or pve questing, both have solo questing. All games have this classic model which started in the 90's because it works.

  • donkeysdonkeys Member Posts: 239

    Originally posted by Schockey

     I do not care about the system, I am just tired of a cartoony game with little kids. This game will at least in my opinion bring in a more mature crowd.

    The game is super  casual and very easy to play, combined with very low tech graphics that any notebook can play...... and you think this will attract a "more mature crowd".....mmmmmmmkay.

    Collector's editions are scams.

  • EtherniaEthernia Member Posts: 104

    OH NOES NOT THE DOORS!

    Seriously.. what is with people and opening doors. lol

  • EverSkellyEverSkelly Member UncommonPosts: 341

    It actually does sound true.

    Everyone waited for this one and had expectations, but it came out as another boring WoW copy. I was hoping it would be at least something like EQ :)

    Same old safe route. Lets make another WoW and add one different feature (rifts), which will be the face of a game.

  • ZeroxinZeroxin Member UncommonPosts: 2,515

    Originally posted by Fearlessbro

    Quite funny that the points you bring up, saying they were all copied elements from WoW and WAR. These are the bread and butter of a MMO and games in general. MMO's play like that, you have questing, Rifts or Public Questing which encourages group play and server input, you have achievements, which hey I'd rather it in then not added as a feature at all. The graphics are very good and polished for an MMO in todays standard. It's more modern, it contains core features the MMO player and community are fond with and more. The game let's you play so many different class combinations, to build a perfect character, that is something unique I've found.

     

    You make out these things in a MMO are all bad and should be tossed aside for a new model, but this is the model that works and MMO's have been building off of for a long time. There are some MMO's, like EVE for example who do it different, but it is rare in this industry. Saying Rift is a Copy and Paste of WoW, down to the UI, Achievement system, and copy past of WAR PQ's, how is this a problem, WoW was alot of copy paste from EQ. Seriously if the game is good, looks amazing, and offers alot of gameplay, who care's what it copied and build upon, If you don't like the game or it's development then move on. FFXIV tried a different approach and failed miserably. A new model of MMO is not an easy task to create. Guild Wars 2, Sw TOR, all are the same style of model, Has quests, has group play, whether it pvp or pve questing, both have solo questing. All games have this classic model which started in the 90's because it works.

    FFXIV didn't even try, they just failed. The difference between GW2/SWTOR and Rift is at least GW2/SWTOR are changing the recipe a bit but all Rift is doing is adding spice to an old recipe that you've had 3 times already and has begun to taste a bit stale. The system might work but that doesn't change the fact that it's getting a bit old for some.

    This is not a game.

  • ParadoxyParadoxy Member Posts: 786

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Originally posted by Fearlessbro

    Quite funny that the points you bring up, saying they were all copied elements from WoW and WAR. These are the bread and butter of a MMO and games in general. MMO's play like that, you have questing, Rifts or Public Questing which encourages group play and server input, you have achievements, which hey I'd rather it in then not added as a feature at all. The graphics are very good and polished for an MMO in todays standard. It's more modern, it contains core features the MMO player and community are fond with and more. The game let's you play so many different class combinations, to build a perfect character, that is something unique I've found.

     

    You make out these things in a MMO are all bad and should be tossed aside for a new model, but this is the model that works and MMO's have been building off of for a long time. There are some MMO's, like EVE for example who do it different, but it is rare in this industry. Saying Rift is a Copy and Paste of WoW, down to the UI, Achievement system, and copy past of WAR PQ's, how is this a problem, WoW was alot of copy paste from EQ. Seriously if the game is good, looks amazing, and offers alot of gameplay, who care's what it copied and build upon, If you don't like the game or it's development then move on. FFXIV tried a different approach and failed miserably. A new model of MMO is not an easy task to create. Guild Wars 2, Sw TOR, all are the same style of model, Has quests, has group play, whether it pvp or pve questing, both have solo questing. All games have this classic model which started in the 90's because it works.

    FFXIV didn't even try, they just failed. The difference between GW2/SWTOR and Rift is at least GW2/SWTOR are changing the recipe a bit but all Rift is doing is adding spice to an old recipe that you've had 3 times already and has begun to taste a bit stale. The system might work but that doesn't change the fact that it's getting a bit old for some.

    GW2 and SWTOR are also just refining the old mechanics and not bringing anything new to MMO genre except for couple of things. All this hype about these two MMOS is going to blow up in peoples face in few months.

    Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?


    Originally posted by Arcken

    To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
    Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible

  • MilliecakeMilliecake Member Posts: 90

    Originally posted by Ethernia

    OH NOES NOT THE DOORS!

    Seriously.. what is with people and opening doors. lol

     Closet Jehovas Witnesses? It did seem a bit strange not being able to go inside though.

     

    I think my response to the OP would be it's not that they've copied things - things that work - but they've done it in an extremely lacklustre and unimaginative manner.

     

    It's like the programming department have overridden any ingenuity from the lore and questing departments and some suit from marketing has come along and told them to make the game for gamers not Gamers, because the latter lives in their parents' basement apparently.

     

    I'd have taken a WoW sequel, I really would have, but Rift is more like a prequel with better graphics and gameplay made for children - shiny things on the ground with big explosions and massive text when doing something mundane as picking up a quest...

  • NBlitzNBlitz Member Posts: 1,904

    Originally posted by donkeys

    Originally posted by Schockey

     I do not care about the system, I am just tired of a cartoony game with little kids. This game will at least in my opinion bring in a more mature crowd.

    The game is super  casual and very easy to play, combined with very low tech graphics that any notebook can play...... and you think this will attract a "more mature crowd".....mmmmmmmkay.

    Explain what you mean by "very low tech graphics"?

    Concrete examples would be nice (backing up what you're implying).

  • ThamorisThamoris Member UncommonPosts: 686

    So many folks complain about the " same ole thing" ...my question is, What do you want/expect? Next to virtual reality, about everything that can be done, has been done. There isn't much left to do cept really off the wall ideas....then folks complain about that!

    I hope Rift IS WoW like...cept without the cartoony and silly stuff. Why? cause WoW is a good/successful game..just too silly for me.

    I would love to see a " WoW" for adults with a few different/new  ideas thrown in. I think Rift will be that game.

    The multi-classing options and the great looking graphics are a big plus for me right off the bat.

  • donkeysdonkeys Member Posts: 239

    Originally posted by nblitz

    Originally posted by donkeys


    Originally posted by Schockey

     I do not care about the system, I am just tired of a cartoony game with little kids. This game will at least in my opinion bring in a more mature crowd.

    The game is super  casual and very easy to play, combined with very low tech graphics that any notebook can play...... and you think this will attract a "more mature crowd".....mmmmmmmkay.

    Explain what you mean by "very low tech graphics"?

    Concrete examples would be nice (backing up what you're implying).

    Uhm I made a whole thread about it.../boggle

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/301555/The-actual-graphics-of-Rift-live-screenshots-inside.html

    Rift uses a very very old engine which was made years ago. The company that made the engine went bankrupt a few weeks ago and some -I think Chinese- bought them up.

    Collector's editions are scams.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,078

    Originally posted by EverSkelly

    It actually does sound true.

    Everyone waited for this one and had expectations, but it came out as another boring WoW copy. I was hoping it would be at least something like EQ :)

    Same old safe route. Lets make another WoW and add one different feature (rifts), which will be the face of a game.

    If this game really did have a budget of 50M what else did you expect.  No one is going to gamble with investors money on anything outside of what has proven to work in the past.

    Copying the best elements from previous games is the most logical formula to try and recoop the investment, even if it isn't likely to bring in ground breaking sub numbers.

    In the end MMORPG's are the sum of their parts, so the real question is will the game be fun for the "target audience".  Because remember, unlike many of us burned out old timers, they're not bored with these game mechanics, for many WOW was their first and perhaps their only MMO.

    While I'm certainly hoping for a new MMO to release with some innovation and originality, I'm not really expecting it from these major titles in 2011.  For the most part they'll follow the tried and true forumulas, each with their own subtle twists or variations to try and carve a name for themselves. 

    GW2 is likely to be the game most out of the box, but even they're trying to make it more like a "traditional" MMORPG and not a CORPG like the first one was.

    Face it folks, the standard formula is where the money is, (or so they believe) and it won't change until some Indy MMO manages to come up with something new and is successful beyond anyones expectations.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • mmogawdmmogawd Member Posts: 732

    Originally posted by nblitz

    Originally posted by donkeys


    Originally posted by Schockey

     I do not care about the system, I am just tired of a cartoony game with little kids. This game will at least in my opinion bring in a more mature crowd.

    The game is super  casual and very easy to play, combined with very low tech graphics that any notebook can play...... and you think this will attract a "more mature crowd".....mmmmmmmkay.

    Explain what you mean by "very low tech graphics"?

    Concrete examples would be nice (backing up what you're implying).

    This is very funny, especially considering that the number biggest complain in-game is high hardware requirements for the graphics.  Sure, you can play on a laptop, but you have to use the low-quality renderer.  It's still fun and playable, but when I switch to my gaming rig, the shift in graphics is nothing short of amazing.

  • SigrandSigrand Member UncommonPosts: 367

    He's right.  I know that most people don't seem to care that he's right, and they'll play anyway, but he is right.  Wasn't this game supposed to be "Next Gen?"  What is next gen about making the exact same game that's been made countless times in the past 5 years?  I'm not saying the game is bad by any means.  In fact, due to the polish and rapid improvements the devs make, I'd say it's a solid product that deserves a decent playerbase.  I hope it succeeds and I have faith that it will, if only because it's not a buggy piece of shit like WAR was when it came out.  It just doesn't do anything for me so I won't be playing it.  I'll keep waiting for a truly next-gen game.  Maybe TERA will be that game, or GW2.  Anyway, to everyone that enjoys this game, have fun and support it.  It's never a bad thing to have more MMOs out there.

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981

    Originally posted by Margulis

    It seems like there are so many areas in this game where the devs decided to go the lazy route and not put in any effort to make a certain system either more innovative, fun, or engrossing.  It's really quite obvious and screams at a company not interested in putting out an amazing game, but more interested in making a quick buck.  So many things are copies of WOW, WAR, or EQ2, and I don't mean "this is in all mmo's" type of copies, I mean DIRECT copies almost instead of something unique to RIFT.  Here are a few examples of what I see to be lazy development and lack of willingness to put in the time to make something really great, or unique.

     

    1.  Questing system - extremely boring, basic, mundane.

    2.  Crafting system - Copy and paste WOW crafting, add a tiny option for augmenting items, and there you have it.

    3.  Achievement system - Copy and paste WOW achievements, even down to the game windows, points, etc.

    4.  Combat - Very boring combat with again no innovation, global cooldown, single targeting system, dated by 7-8 years.

    5.  World lacking immersion - The world is small and lazy in design, hell there aren't even any openable doors! 

    6.  PVP system - Copy and paste WOW and EQ2 with their battlegrounds.

    7.  Game progression - Quest to level, then raid, that's it.  Again, dated by 7-10 years, it's way past time for there to be a focus beyond just end game raiding.

    8.  Rifts - Very similar to WAR public quests and also somewhat repetitive and disappointing so far.

    9.  Horribly unoriginal races to choose from.

    10. One starting area for each faction.

    11.  Game is to also be focused on reputation grinding, sigh.

    12.  EXACT same item quality coloring / grade system as in WOW.

     

    I'm sure I can add to this list, but that's all I can think of for right now, but still, that's WAY more than enough for a 2011 MMO that was supposed to be made on a 50 million dollar budget.

    Oh No!!

    Rift is an MMO !!!



  • ParadoxyParadoxy Member Posts: 786

    Originally posted by donkeys

    Originally posted by nblitz


    Originally posted by donkeys


    Originally posted by Schockey

     I do not care about the system, I am just tired of a cartoony game with little kids. This game will at least in my opinion bring in a more mature crowd.

    The game is super  casual and very easy to play, combined with very low tech graphics that any notebook can play...... and you think this will attract a "more mature crowd".....mmmmmmmkay.

    Explain what you mean by "very low tech graphics"?

    Concrete examples would be nice (backing up what you're implying).

    Uhm I made a whole thread about it.../boggle

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/301555/The-actual-graphics-of-Rift-live-screenshots-inside.html

    Rift uses a very very old engine which was made years ago. The company that made the engine went bankrupt a few weeks ago and some -I think Chinese- bought them up.

    That is great from business point of view as Rift will be accessible to more players once engine is optimized even more. I would rather have Rift's open world over Aoc"s heavly instanced but realistic looking graphics. What i like best about Rifts is that it doesn't divide players into shards and instances and still looks good.

    Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?


    Originally posted by Arcken

    To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
    Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible

  • NBlitzNBlitz Member Posts: 1,904



    Originally posted by mmogawd


    Originally posted by nblitz


    Originally posted by donkeys


    Originally posted by Schockey

     I do not care about the system, I am just tired of a cartoony game with little kids. This game will at least in my opinion bring in a more mature crowd.

    The game is super  casual and very easy to play, combined with very low tech graphics that any notebook can play...... and you think this will attract a "more mature crowd".....mmmmmmmkay.

    Explain what you mean by "very low tech graphics"?
    Concrete examples would be nice (backing up what you're implying).

    This is very funny, especially considering that the number biggest complain in-game is high hardware requirements for the graphics.  Sure, you can play on a laptop, but you have to use the low-quality renderer.  It's still fun and playable, but when I switch to my gaming rig, the shift in graphics is nothing short of amazing.

    He said he made a thread about it. Check it out.



    Uhm I made a whole thread about it.../boggle
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/301555/The-actual-graphics-of-Rift-live-screenshots-inside.html
    Rift uses a very very old engine which was made years ago. The company that made the engine went bankrupt a few weeks ago and some -I think Chinese- bought them up.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098

    Originally posted by EverSkelly

    It actually does sound true.

    Everyone waited for this one and had expectations, but it came out as another boring WoW copy. I was hoping it would be at least something like EQ :)

    Same old safe route. Lets make another WoW and add one different feature (rifts), which will be the face of a game.

    They went even further. RIFT is so casual and hand holding to the extreme. It's not even funny anymore.

    This whole game is on rails and your stuck on it. From the very beginning all the way to the end.

    Each side has one starter area and all the quest hubs and zones are chain linked by unlocks.

    So each and every new character you create, will be the exact same experience over and over again.

    The whole zones are designed as canyons, forcing you through the laid out path (the on rails experience) moving you from quest hub to quest hub, which even a 3 year old child or your grand mama can figure out.

    Even the Rifts aren't so random at all. They are exactly like the PQ's from WAR. Just as repetitive and boring. With an even worse loot system. And lighting up like a christmas tree on the map when they appear.

    The devs have gone to such great lenghts in this game to eliminate every sense of exploration and freedom.

    And I am really puzzled as to why?  Is the new generation of gamers really that stupid and brain dead? That they cannot figure things out and find things on their own? /sigh

  • mmogawdmmogawd Member Posts: 732

    Originally posted by tcosaddict

    He's right.  I know that most people don't seem to care that he's right, and they'll play anyway, but he is right.  Wasn't this game supposed to be "Next Gen?"  What is next gen about making the exact same game that's been made countless times in the past 5 years?  I'm not saying the game is bad by any means.  In fact, due to the polish and rapid improvements the devs make, I'd say it's a solid product that deserves a decent playerbase.  I hope it succeeds and I have faith that it will, if only because it's not a buggy piece of shit like WAR was when it came out.  It just doesn't do anything for me so I won't be playing it.  I'll keep waiting for a truly next-gen game.  Maybe TERA will be that game, or GW2.  Anyway, to everyone that enjoys this game, have fun and support it.  It's never a bad thing to have more MMOs out there.

    Right, because all games out there are based upon mass amounts of dynamic content and offer classes with 8 sub-classes that let you custom build your own class to suit your personal playstile.

  • donkeysdonkeys Member Posts: 239

    Originally posted by tcosaddict

    He's right.  I know that most people don't seem to care that he's right, and they'll play anyway, but he is right.  Wasn't this game supposed to be "Next Gen?"  What is next gen about making the exact same game that's been made countless times in the past 5 years?  I'm not saying the game is bad by any means.  In fact, due to the polish and rapid improvements the devs make, I'd say it's a solid product that deserves a decent playerbase.  I hope it succeeds and I have faith that it will, if only because it's not a buggy piece of shit like WAR was when it came out.  It just doesn't do anything for me so I won't be playing it.  I'll keep waiting for a truly next-gen game.  Maybe TERA will be that game, or GW2.  Anyway, to everyone that enjoys this game, have fun and support it.  It's never a bad thing to have more MMOs out there.

    It wasn't supposed to be just "next-gen", it was supposed to be a "triple-A MMO" link .

    I guess tripple A means low quality WoWHammer with outdated graphics.

    Oh well, they managed to fool a lot of people and I see some are still being fooled as we speak.

    At least we know why the beta had months of NDA so we kept our mouth shut while they drove the hype machine.

    Collector's editions are scams.

  • FearGXFearGX Member Posts: 317

    Originally posted by JeroKane

    Originally posted by EverSkelly

    It actually does sound true.

    Everyone waited for this one and had expectations, but it came out as another boring WoW copy. I was hoping it would be at least something like EQ :)

    Same old safe route. Lets make another WoW and add one different feature (rifts), which will be the face of a game.

    They went even further. RIFT is so casual and hand holding to the extreme. It's not even funny anymore.

    This whole game is on rails and your stuck on it. From the very beginning all the way to the end.

    Each side has one starter area and all the quest hubs and zones are chain linked by unlocks.

    So each and every new character you create, will be the exact same experience over and over again.

    The whole zones are designed as canyons, forcing you through the laid out path (the on rails experience) moving you from quest hub to quest hub, which even a 3 year old child or your grand mama can figure out.

    Even the Rifts aren't so random at all. They are exactly like the PQ's from WAR. Just as repetitive and boring. With an even worse loot system. And lighting up like a christmas tree on the map when they appear.

    The devs have gone to such great lenghts in this game to eliminate every sense of exploration and freedom.

    And I am really puzzled as to why?  Is the new generation of gamers really that stupid and brain dead? That they cannot figure things out and find things on their own? /sigh

    Explain to me how making a MMORPG game harder with huge wide open areas, and quests with little to no information for you, to wander around for long periods of time is a good thing?, only to end up asking someone where it is, or looking it up on google. This doesn't make an enjoyable experience, and most people will turn away from this sort of model. It's hardcore, yes, I agree it is more rewarding, but in the end it is boring style to choose from. MMORPG's or games in general, don't need to be set to Hard or Expert by default.

  • NaowutNaowut Member UncommonPosts: 663

    All the posts saying that all MMO's are like this is just retarded. Its not what MMOs are its what they have become.

    The 5646 million WoW players like it but many of us are looking for different features.

  • FearGXFearGX Member Posts: 317

    Originally posted by psyknx

    All the posts saying that all MMO's are like this is just retarded. Its not what MMOs are its what they have become.

    The 5646 million WoW players like it but many of us are looking for different features.

    New features have been tried by many developers, who end up releasing then closing or becoming F2P soon after, or they never see the light of day.

     

    I agree that the MMO community at large is sick of the rehashed model used now, but it's the only thing that works and is usable, there is nothing known that can and would work better.

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