Originally posted by spankybus It's hard to target someone in a game when they are not actually where they appear to be without help. Isn't Latency Wonderful?
I expect through testing that a lot of people simply couldn't not come to grips with the idea of aiming where someone is GOING to be one second into the future. This concept is easy to come by in projectile combat, where you have to lead your target. But with Close-Quarters Combat, you expect that when you stab a person in front of you, they will bleed.
Personally, I blame Einstein!
Are you trying to say that is better they remove the manual targeting and back to the standard TAB target spamfest? If they do this the mmo genre will never evolve into something innovative and next-gen and we will have the same crappy gameplay forever. Tab +f1+f2+f3+f4 - repeat in a infinite loop.
No thanks, the mmo market is already saturated with all these lock-on clones for years, time to try something different.
And btw, lag sure matter, but people report that even playing in korea the manual targeting is pretty accurate.
It's optional,if you choose not to use it then it's up to you,if you choose to use it then that is also up to you. If someone uses it in PVP and get's the better of you because of it then it's your fault for not using it,no one is stopping you.
II think it's a fair way of doing it and it should keep bothy parties happy.
What this refers to is specific skills. For example, the archer has a multi-arrow skill, where you fire the skill at a mob and it "tags" it, you do this for multiple mobs and then the skill fires off hitting all the tagged mobs. But that is the only archer skill that uses tagging.
What they've done is expand this type of tagging to work for some healing abilities and a few other skills. You still have to aim, it just makes healing easier than it was previously. Most skills still fire off and head towards where you were aiming and can miss if you are bad at aiming, just like before.
EDIT: It is NOT tab-targetting / auto-aiming like WoW.
^THIS.
Everyone else on the same page now?
Amazing how they all totally ignored my post
I wonder how many times people have to requote this for them to understand?
I think I'm starting to understand what is wrong with these forums.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
It's hard to target someone in a game when they are not actually where they appear to be without help. Isn't Latency Wonderful?
I expect through testing that a lot of people simply couldn't not come to grips with the idea of aiming where someone is GOING to be one second into the future. This concept is easy to come by in projectile combat, where you have to lead your target. But with Close-Quarters Combat, you expect that when you stab a person in front of you, they will bleed.
Personally, I blame Einstein!
Are you trying to say that is better they remove the manual targeting and back to the standard TAB target spamfest? If they do this the mmo genre will never evolve into something innovative and next-gen and we will have the same crappy gameplay forever. Tab +f1+f2+f3+f4 - repeat in a infinite loop.
No thanks, the mmo market is already saturated with all these lock-on clones for years, time to try something different.
And btw, lag sure matter, but people report that even playing in korea the manual targeting is pretty accurate.
Not saying it's better, just impossible to implement in such a way that players are all on an even playing field. I mean, before MMORPGs, a lot of games had manual targeting...so why didn't that feature make the transistion? Latency.
Sure you can do it, I think darkfall did it? (haven't played it, just remembering treads in its foums related to this topic). But the further away from the server you are, the less accurate your visual cues are on where your target is really standing
South Korea is about he size of the state of Florida, so it is a lot easier for them to get consistent gameplay as there just isn't that much variance in the distance between the server and its players. Now, Look at the Continent of North America, which would probably fit a couple dozen South Korea's.
If the server is in Seattle, players in Washington State are going to have a SERIOUS advantage over my sorry butt down here in Florida. I will be swinging at the dude standing right in front of me when the server knows he's already behind be and cutting my head off!
I fully admit I have no idea how TERA plans to deal with this, so here is hoping that some new technological tricks up their sleeve.
On a random side note, Ultima Online used to label their servers based on where they were located, allowing you to find the closest server to play on...no one seems to do that anymore.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
It's hard to target someone in a game when they are not actually where they appear to be without help. Isn't Latency Wonderful?
I expect through testing that a lot of people simply couldn't not come to grips with the idea of aiming where someone is GOING to be one second into the future. This concept is easy to come by in projectile combat, where you have to lead your target. But with Close-Quarters Combat, you expect that when you stab a person in front of you, they will bleed.
Personally, I blame Einstein!
Are you trying to say that is better they remove the manual targeting and back to the standard TAB target spamfest? If they do this the mmo genre will never evolve into something innovative and next-gen and we will have the same crappy gameplay forever. Tab +f1+f2+f3+f4 - repeat in a infinite loop.
No thanks, the mmo market is already saturated with all these lock-on clones for years, time to try something different.
And btw, lag sure matter, but people report that even playing in korea the manual targeting is pretty accurate.
Not saying it's better, just impossible to implement in such a way that players are all on an even playing field. I mean, before MMORPGs, a lot of games had manual targeting...so why didn't that feature make the transistion? Latency.
Sure you can do it, I think darkfall did it? (haven't played it, just remembering treads in its foums related to this topic). But the further away from the server you are, the less accurate your visual cues are on where your target is really standing
South Korea is about he size of the state of Florida, so it is a lot easier for them to get consistent gameplay as there just isn't that much variance in the distance between the server and its players. Now, Look at the Continent of North America, which would probably fit a couple dozen South Korea's.
If the server is in Seattle, players in Washington State are going to have a SERIOUS advantage over my sorry butt down here in Florida. I will be swinging at the dude standing right in front of me when the server knows he's already behind be and cutting my head off!
I fully admit I have no idea how TERA plans to deal with this, so here is hoping that some new technological tricks up their sleeve.
On a random side note, Ultima Online used to label their servers based on where they were located, allowing you to find the closest server to play on...no one seems to do that anymore.
TERAHispano: Lag is an important thing for users. What plans do you have to reduce ping/lag issues?
Patrick Wyatt: I’m happy to say that TERA’s bold new action combat system plays very nicely even when the servers are located thousands of miles away. I first experienced TERA while playing on a computer in Los Angeles connected to a game server 6000 miles away in Korea, and I was impressed at the responsiveness of the game. You don’t have to take my word for it; ask anyone from Europe who participated in the Focus Group Tests about their experience with game-lag. When we built the first Western servers for TERA, we selected a QA datacenter just a few miles from our offices in Seattle, which meant that European players who joined our Focus Group Tests were playing on servers over 5000 miles away. Based on the forum posts, polls, and informal surveys from those events, we didn’t see lag problems.
That being said, there’s more we can do to ensure that lag won’t be a problem. Selecting the right location to host game servers, and choosing which bandwidth-providers to send the “bits” is critical to ensuring a great MMO play experience! While it’s possible to buy cheap bandwidth, players can tell the difference when they see excessive total-ping-time or ping-time-variability. We’re going with tier 1 bandwidth providers even though they cost more than tier 2 (or … shiver … tier 3) providers because it makes a difference.
Who is Patrick Wyatt?
Patrick Wyatt is a game programmer and one of the three co-founders of ArenaNet. He was the leader of the Network and Technology teams and a programmer for Guild Wars. Before the founding of ArenaNet, he was working in Blizzard Entertainement where he was the Vice President of Research and Development and a senior programmer. Wyatt was the leader of Battle.net gaming network's programming and a major contributor on the multiplayer parts of Blizzard's popular games including Starcraft, Diablo and Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness. Having been in Blizzard for more than eight years, his work also includes earlier Blizzard games like Lost Vikings and Rock N' Roll racing.
As of February 24, 2010. He has become the Chief Operations Officer for En Masse Entertainment, along with other industry veterans. The first official En Masse title scheduled for release in North America and Europe will be the highly anticipated MMORPG PC title, TERA.
It's more logical to assume that there is nothing to worry about.
It's hard to target someone in a game when they are not actually where they appear to be without help. Isn't Latency Wonderful?
I expect through testing that a lot of people simply couldn't not come to grips with the idea of aiming where someone is GOING to be one second into the future. This concept is easy to come by in projectile combat, where you have to lead your target. But with Close-Quarters Combat, you expect that when you stab a person in front of you, they will bleed.
Personally, I blame Einstein!
Are you trying to say that is better they remove the manual targeting and back to the standard TAB target spamfest? If they do this the mmo genre will never evolve into something innovative and next-gen and we will have the same crappy gameplay forever. Tab +f1+f2+f3+f4 - repeat in a infinite loop.
No thanks, the mmo market is already saturated with all these lock-on clones for years, time to try something different.
And btw, lag sure matter, but people report that even playing in korea the manual targeting is pretty accurate.
Not saying it's better, just impossible to implement in such a way that players are all on an even playing field. I mean, before MMORPGs, a lot of games had manual targeting...so why didn't that feature make the transistion? Latency.
Sure you can do it, I think darkfall did it? (haven't played it, just remembering treads in its foums related to this topic). But the further away from the server you are, the less accurate your visual cues are on where your target is really standing
South Korea is about he size of the state of Florida, so it is a lot easier for them to get consistent gameplay as there just isn't that much variance in the distance between the server and its players. Now, Look at the Continent of North America, which would probably fit a couple dozen South Korea's.
If the server is in Seattle, players in Washington State are going to have a SERIOUS advantage over my sorry butt down here in Florida. I will be swinging at the dude standing right in front of me when the server knows he's already behind be and cutting my head off!
I fully admit I have no idea how TERA plans to deal with this, so here is hoping that some new technological tricks up their sleeve.
On a random side note, Ultima Online used to label their servers based on where they were located, allowing you to find the closest server to play on...no one seems to do that anymore.
TERAHispano: Lag is an important thing for users. What plans do you have to reduce ping/lag issues?
Patrick Wyatt: I’m happy to say that TERA’s bold new action combat system plays very nicely even when the servers are located thousands of miles away. I first experienced TERA while playing on a computer in Los Angeles connected to a game server 6000 miles away in Korea, and I was impressed at the responsiveness of the game. You don’t have to take my word for it; ask anyone from Europe who participated in the Focus Group Tests about their experience with game-lag. When we built the first Western servers for TERA, we selected a QA datacenter just a few miles from our offices in Seattle, which meant that European players who joined our Focus Group Tests were playing on servers over 5000 miles away. Based on the forum posts, polls, and informal surveys from those events, we didn’t see lag problems.
That being said, there’s more we can do to ensure that lag won’t be a problem. Selecting the right location to host game servers, and choosing which bandwidth-providers to send the “bits” is critical to ensuring a great MMO play experience! While it’s possible to buy cheap bandwidth, players can tell the difference when they see excessive total-ping-time or ping-time-variability. We’re going with tier 1 bandwidth providers even though they cost more than tier 2 (or … shiver … tier 3) providers because it makes a difference.
Who is Patrick Wyatt?
Patrick Wyatt is a game programmer and one of the three co-founders of ArenaNet. He was the leader of the Network and Technology teams and a programmer for Guild Wars. Before the founding of ArenaNet, he was working in Blizzard Entertainement where he was the Vice President of Research and Development and a senior programmer. Wyatt was the leader of Battle.net gaming network's programming and a major contributor on the multiplayer parts of Blizzard's popular games including Starcraft, Diablo and Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness. Having been in Blizzard for more than eight years, his work also includes earlier Blizzard games like Lost Vikings and Rock N' Roll racing.
As of February 24, 2010. He has become the Chief Operations Officer for En Masse Entertainment, along with other industry veterans. The first official En Masse title scheduled for release in North America and Europe will be the highly anticipated MMORPG PC title, TERA.
It's more logical to assume that there is nothing to worry about.
Not Lag, Latency. Lag is what causes you to hitch, etc, gets you killed cuz her signal just died. its random. A temporary degradation of your connection speed. Lag monster love you!
Latency is Constant. When you are playing the game with the best possible connection, you are still seeing this slower than they are really happening, because everyones signal cannot travel faster than the speed of light. I may be using terms incorrectly and I apologies if that is the case.
Let me give you an example. My wife and I play a LOT of mmorpgs together. We are in the same room, we can talk to each other ans see each others screens. We connect through the same router, same cable connection, etc. So, our connnection to the server is probably traveling the same distance. Someone told me that signals from the same source can travel different paths, etc...not something i understand well.
However, the Wife and I can be standing right next to each other....and i tell her to 'GO' and she immediately starts running. I see her running on her screen but it takes almost a second for me to see her toon start running on my screen! I am not exaggerating.
As a result in the delay i get when she takes action, when she is on auto-follow on me, we are both running and she is about 15 feet behind me. But on her screen, she is literally right on my ass.
Many of you may have had a situation occur where you and come other person are both running towards a resource node...mining, logging, etc. You see yourself get there a half second ahead of your opponent and mine the spot and they get all bent out of shape. Well, because of lacency, on their screen you got there after they did. You are both right and both wrong.
This is a concept of Einstein's Relativity, Two different people can see the same event from two different vantage points and then have to different stories as to how things actually happened. They are both right and telling the truth...from their point of view.
Now imagine if i had to walk up to my wife and hit her while she is running and jumping erratically. If I score a hit on my screen she will be asking herself, 'How the hell did you hit me from back there!?"
This is the phenomenon that presents the biggest problem to no-autolock. Most people are not even aware that this delay is happening, until you get more than one game going in the same room.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
To clarify, the combat system hasn't changed. What this refers to is specific skills. For example, the archer has a multi-arrow skill, where you fire the skill at a mob and it "tags" it, you do this for multiple mobs and then the skill fires off hitting all the tagged mobs. But that is the only archer skill that uses tagging. What they've done is expand this type of tagging to work for some healing abilities and a few other skills. You still have to aim, it just makes healing easier than it was previously. Most skills still fire off and head towards where you were aiming and can miss if you are bad at aiming, just like before. EDIT: It is NOT tab-targetting / auto-aiming like WoW.
Been looking forward to Tera for a long time now. I really would like to test it and most likely preorder it when It's ready, but I'm starting to drift a bit away, Mainly because I don't want it to have the same feeling as Vindictus in combat. For some reason I just don't like it especially when playing as Evie, Casting is wierd, I cant tell if it's Auto Targeting whats in front of you or I'm actually aiming. The way they explain it in the articles and how they display it in their videos on youtube, it looks like itll work but i dont see much of it as Next generation. So it's just a different approach to combat by turing it into an expensive version of vindictus. But It's too soon to jump to conclusions, until NA gets a beta test and I'm in it, I think Ill just keep my mouth shut after clicking POST MESSAGE lol.
Also, I'm stll confused about its world, is it all open like WoW/RIFT or is it Instanced like GW or Linear like the new FF Mmo.
It's hard to target someone in a game when they are not actually where they appear to be without help. Isn't Latency Wonderful?
I expect through testing that a lot of people simply couldn't not come to grips with the idea of aiming where someone is GOING to be one second into the future. This concept is easy to come by in projectile combat, where you have to lead your target. But with Close-Quarters Combat, you expect that when you stab a person in front of you, they will bleed.
Personally, I blame Einstein!
Are you trying to say that is better they remove the manual targeting and back to the standard TAB target spamfest? If they do this the mmo genre will never evolve into something innovative and next-gen and we will have the same crappy gameplay forever. Tab +f1+f2+f3+f4 - repeat in a infinite loop.
No thanks, the mmo market is already saturated with all these lock-on clones for years, time to try something different.
And btw, lag sure matter, but people report that even playing in korea the manual targeting is pretty accurate.
Not saying it's better, just impossible to implement in such a way that players are all on an even playing field. I mean, before MMORPGs, a lot of games had manual targeting...so why didn't that feature make the transistion? Latency.
Sure you can do it, I think darkfall did it? (haven't played it, just remembering treads in its foums related to this topic). But the further away from the server you are, the less accurate your visual cues are on where your target is really standing
South Korea is about he size of the state of Florida, so it is a lot easier for them to get consistent gameplay as there just isn't that much variance in the distance between the server and its players. Now, Look at the Continent of North America, which would probably fit a couple dozen South Korea's.
If the server is in Seattle, players in Washington State are going to have a SERIOUS advantage over my sorry butt down here in Florida. I will be swinging at the dude standing right in front of me when the server knows he's already behind be and cutting my head off!
I fully admit I have no idea how TERA plans to deal with this, so here is hoping that some new technological tricks up their sleeve.
On a random side note, Ultima Online used to label their servers based on where they were located, allowing you to find the closest server to play on...no one seems to do that anymore.
TERAHispano: Lag is an important thing for users. What plans do you have to reduce ping/lag issues?
Patrick Wyatt: I’m happy to say that TERA’s bold new action combat system plays very nicely even when the servers are located thousands of miles away. I first experienced TERA while playing on a computer in Los Angeles connected to a game server 6000 miles away in Korea, and I was impressed at the responsiveness of the game. You don’t have to take my word for it; ask anyone from Europe who participated in the Focus Group Tests about their experience with game-lag. When we built the first Western servers for TERA, we selected a QA datacenter just a few miles from our offices in Seattle, which meant that European players who joined our Focus Group Tests were playing on servers over 5000 miles away. Based on the forum posts, polls, and informal surveys from those events, we didn’t see lag problems.
That being said, there’s more we can do to ensure that lag won’t be a problem. Selecting the right location to host game servers, and choosing which bandwidth-providers to send the “bits” is critical to ensuring a great MMO play experience! While it’s possible to buy cheap bandwidth, players can tell the difference when they see excessive total-ping-time or ping-time-variability. We’re going with tier 1 bandwidth providers even though they cost more than tier 2 (or … shiver … tier 3) providers because it makes a difference.
Who is Patrick Wyatt?
Patrick Wyatt is a game programmer and one of the three co-founders of ArenaNet. He was the leader of the Network and Technology teams and a programmer for Guild Wars. Before the founding of ArenaNet, he was working in Blizzard Entertainement where he was the Vice President of Research and Development and a senior programmer. Wyatt was the leader of Battle.net gaming network's programming and a major contributor on the multiplayer parts of Blizzard's popular games including Starcraft, Diablo and Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness. Having been in Blizzard for more than eight years, his work also includes earlier Blizzard games like Lost Vikings and Rock N' Roll racing.
As of February 24, 2010. He has become the Chief Operations Officer for En Masse Entertainment, along with other industry veterans. The first official En Masse title scheduled for release in North America and Europe will be the highly anticipated MMORPG PC title, TERA.
It's more logical to assume that there is nothing to worry about.
Not Lag, Latency. Lag is what causes you to hitch, etc, gets you killed cuz her signal just died. its random. A temporary degradation of your connection speed. Lag monster love you!
Latency is Constant. When you are playing the game with the best possible connection, you are still seeing this slower than they are really happening, because everyones signal cannot travel faster than the speed of light. I may be using terms incorrectly and I apologies if that is the case.
Let me give you an example. My wife and I play a LOT of mmorpgs together. We are in the same room, we can talk to each other ans see each others screens. We connect through the same router, same cable connection, etc. So, our connnection to the server is probably traveling the same distance. Someone told me that signals from the same source can travel different paths, etc...not something i understand well.
However, the Wife and I can be standing right next to each other....and i tell her to 'GO' and she immediately starts running. I see her running on her screen but it takes almost a second for me to see her toon start running on my screen! I am not exaggerating.
As a result in the delay i get when she takes action, when she is on auto-follow on me, we are both running and she is about 15 feet behind me. But on her screen, she is literally right on my ass.
Many of you may have had a situation occur where you and come other person are both running towards a resource node...mining, logging, etc. You see yourself get there a half second ahead of your opponent and mine the spot and they get all bent out of shape. Well, because of lacency, on their screen you got there after they did. You are both right and both wrong.
This is a concept of Einstein's Relativity, Two different people can see the same event from two different vantage points and then have to different stories as to how things actually happened. They are both right and telling the truth...from their point of view.
Now imagine if i had to walk up to my wife and hit her while she is running and jumping erratically. If I score a hit on my screen she will be asking herself, 'How the hell did you hit me from back there!?"
This is the phenomenon that presents the biggest problem to no-autolock. Most people are not even aware that this delay is happening, until you get more than one game going in the same room.
Not really. Lag is big latency and big latency is lag. Lag spike is hitching. Lag doesn't necessarly mean your avatar is teleporting through the world it also means you have a big latency/ping. So yes, lag is very much related to the delay. T1 servers ensure both reduced lag and delay and hell, it's 2011 and technology is advancing. Btw, many testers in the FGT while playing from Europe in the NA servers didn't experience any big delay at all.
It's optional,if you choose not to use it then it's up to you,if you choose to use it then that is also up to you. If someone uses it in PVP and get's the better of you because of it then it's your fault for not using it,no one is stopping you.
II think it's a fair way of doing it and it should keep bothy parties happy.
This is one of those things that if you keep both parties "happy" , you will ruin this game. Everyone knows that having the ability to lock on your target is a huge advantage over aiming. So this isn't on of those things that you can have both. Instead they should stick to theirs guns. Tell the people who don't want to have to use some type of skill in their game., that maybe this game isn't for them. Move a long ... another wow clone will be out for you shortly.
What this refers to is specific skills. For example, the archer has a multi-arrow skill, where you fire the skill at a mob and it "tags" it, you do this for multiple mobs and then the skill fires off hitting all the tagged mobs. But that is the only archer skill that uses tagging.
What they've done is expand this type of tagging to work for some healing abilities and a few other skills. You still have to aim, it just makes healing easier than it was previously. Most skills still fire off and head towards where you were aiming and can miss if you are bad at aiming, just like before.
EDIT: It is NOT tab-targetting / auto-aiming like WoW.
Well, before that, you could've possibly (hypothetically) killed an archer without getting hit a single time. Because of your god-like skill at dodging. Right?
Now, it's not possible anymore, because they have a FREAKING LOCK on you, so no matter how much you dodge, you WILL get hit (even if it's just 1 lousy skill).
And about "optional".. as many have stated before, and some people just seem to not understand: If you have an option that gives you an advantage in a multiplayer game, you WILL use it. Why? Because the players you are gonna PvP with will probably use it, and kick your "honest and skilled, but not smart" ass.
I am sure that TERA still wants to get as close to non-targeting as possible, but after implementing their original vision and realizing that it is fail they need to do the right thing and reel it back a bit. This is an intelligent move on their part as if they introduce a game with elements that make the game unreasonable ppl with leave.
Regarding latency:
any mmo that is not using lock-on targetting is going to have playability issues due to latency. There is no way around that unless the game allows you to register a hit based on what you are seeing rather than what the server is seeing. But while that helps the shooter it puts the victim in a bad place because now whatever they do to evade will be delayed.
If you don't want to get frustrated by getting killed by things before you can see them or killed through a wall you just hid behind then stick with third person MMORPG style games. (in other words, hits calculated by a roll and your "to-hit" stat, and their "evade" stat rather than doing physics ballistics calculations)
For an older guy like me, I would rather that my characters aim be defined by the character's skill, not mine, heh. After all, I am roleplaying.
For an older guy like me, I would rather that my characters aim be defined by the character's skill, not mine, heh. After all, I am roleplaying.
Not that I agree with the changes, but that statement was really well placed. It would convince me, if I wasn't so bored with games that let me drink my coffee, smoke, AND play, at the same time.
I'm not sure who said that the lock-on is an option cause it's not, it would be unfair if it was. The combat didn't really undergo heavy changes other than the pretty much overhauled skills of archer including lock-on on very few skills of the ranged classes. The changes were for the better imo cause let's be honest, it's not really fun missing 24/7.
Thank you for conducting this survey of what percentage of the population will read at least eight posts into a thread before replying. I'm sure that you will agree that the results have been most informative.
Who Not really. Lag is big latency and big latency is lag. Lag spike is hitching. Lag doesn't necessarly mean your avatar is teleporting through the world it also means you have a big latency/ping. So yes, lag is very much related to the delay. T1 servers ensure both reduced lag and delay and hell, it's 2011 and technology is advancing. Btw, many testers in the FGT while playing from Europe in the NA servers didn't experience any big delay at all.
Increasing bandwidth doesnt reduce latency. Lag is the summation of several factors including latency. You could have low latency but high lag because you have low bandwidth and there is a delay downloading information such as the location of other players. Increasing bandwidth reduces lag. Latency around the world will still be in the order of hundreds of milliseconds though.
As for the read the post guys, practice what you preach.
Comments
Are you trying to say that is better they remove the manual targeting and back to the standard TAB target spamfest? If they do this the mmo genre will never evolve into something innovative and next-gen and we will have the same crappy gameplay forever. Tab +f1+f2+f3+f4 - repeat in a infinite loop.
No thanks, the mmo market is already saturated with all these lock-on clones for years, time to try something different.
And btw, lag sure matter, but people report that even playing in korea the manual targeting is pretty accurate.
It's optional,if you choose not to use it then it's up to you,if you choose to use it then that is also up to you. If someone uses it in PVP and get's the better of you because of it then it's your fault for not using it,no one is stopping you.
II think it's a fair way of doing it and it should keep bothy parties happy.
I think I'm starting to understand what is wrong with these forums.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Not saying it's better, just impossible to implement in such a way that players are all on an even playing field. I mean, before MMORPGs, a lot of games had manual targeting...so why didn't that feature make the transistion? Latency.
Sure you can do it, I think darkfall did it? (haven't played it, just remembering treads in its foums related to this topic). But the further away from the server you are, the less accurate your visual cues are on where your target is really standing
South Korea is about he size of the state of Florida, so it is a lot easier for them to get consistent gameplay as there just isn't that much variance in the distance between the server and its players. Now, Look at the Continent of North America, which would probably fit a couple dozen South Korea's.
If the server is in Seattle, players in Washington State are going to have a SERIOUS advantage over my sorry butt down here in Florida. I will be swinging at the dude standing right in front of me when the server knows he's already behind be and cutting my head off!
I fully admit I have no idea how TERA plans to deal with this, so here is hoping that some new technological tricks up their sleeve.
On a random side note, Ultima Online used to label their servers based on where they were located, allowing you to find the closest server to play on...no one seems to do that anymore.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
Patrick Wyatt on a Tera Hispano interview: http://www.terahispano.com/foro/48-terahispano-noticias-de-la-comunidad/6791-patrick-wyatt-on-terahispanocom
TERAHispano: Lag is an important thing for users. What plans do you have to reduce ping/lag issues?
Patrick Wyatt: I’m happy to say that TERA’s bold new action combat system plays very nicely even when the servers are located thousands of miles away. I first experienced TERA while playing on a computer in Los Angeles connected to a game server 6000 miles away in Korea, and I was impressed at the responsiveness of the game. You don’t have to take my word for it; ask anyone from Europe who participated in the Focus Group Tests about their experience with game-lag. When we built the first Western servers for TERA, we selected a QA datacenter just a few miles from our offices in Seattle, which meant that European players who joined our Focus Group Tests were playing on servers over 5000 miles away. Based on the forum posts, polls, and informal surveys from those events, we didn’t see lag problems.
That being said, there’s more we can do to ensure that lag won’t be a problem. Selecting the right location to host game servers, and choosing which bandwidth-providers to send the “bits” is critical to ensuring a great MMO play experience! While it’s possible to buy cheap bandwidth, players can tell the difference when they see excessive total-ping-time or ping-time-variability. We’re going with tier 1 bandwidth providers even though they cost more than tier 2 (or … shiver … tier 3) providers because it makes a difference.
Who is Patrick Wyatt?
Patrick Wyatt is a game programmer and one of the three co-founders of ArenaNet. He was the leader of the Network and Technology teams and a programmer for Guild Wars. Before the founding of ArenaNet, he was working in Blizzard Entertainement where he was the Vice President of Research and Development and a senior programmer. Wyatt was the leader of Battle.net gaming network's programming and a major contributor on the multiplayer parts of Blizzard's popular games including Starcraft, Diablo and Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness. Having been in Blizzard for more than eight years, his work also includes earlier Blizzard games like Lost Vikings and Rock N' Roll racing.
As of February 24, 2010. He has become the Chief Operations Officer for En Masse Entertainment, along with other industry veterans. The first official En Masse title scheduled for release in North America and Europe will be the highly anticipated MMORPG PC title, TERA.
It's more logical to assume that there is nothing to worry about.
Not Lag, Latency. Lag is what causes you to hitch, etc, gets you killed cuz her signal just died. its random. A temporary degradation of your connection speed. Lag monster love you!
Latency is Constant. When you are playing the game with the best possible connection, you are still seeing this slower than they are really happening, because everyones signal cannot travel faster than the speed of light. I may be using terms incorrectly and I apologies if that is the case.
Let me give you an example. My wife and I play a LOT of mmorpgs together. We are in the same room, we can talk to each other ans see each others screens. We connect through the same router, same cable connection, etc. So, our connnection to the server is probably traveling the same distance. Someone told me that signals from the same source can travel different paths, etc...not something i understand well.
However, the Wife and I can be standing right next to each other....and i tell her to 'GO' and she immediately starts running. I see her running on her screen but it takes almost a second for me to see her toon start running on my screen! I am not exaggerating.
As a result in the delay i get when she takes action, when she is on auto-follow on me, we are both running and she is about 15 feet behind me. But on her screen, she is literally right on my ass.
Many of you may have had a situation occur where you and come other person are both running towards a resource node...mining, logging, etc. You see yourself get there a half second ahead of your opponent and mine the spot and they get all bent out of shape. Well, because of lacency, on their screen you got there after they did. You are both right and both wrong.
This is a concept of Einstein's Relativity, Two different people can see the same event from two different vantage points and then have to different stories as to how things actually happened. They are both right and telling the truth...from their point of view.
Now imagine if i had to walk up to my wife and hit her while she is running and jumping erratically. If I score a hit on my screen she will be asking herself, 'How the hell did you hit me from back there!?"
This is the phenomenon that presents the biggest problem to no-autolock. Most people are not even aware that this delay is happening, until you get more than one game going in the same room.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
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^THIS.
Everyone else on the same page now?
Thisssss!!!! ^^^^
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
Been looking forward to Tera for a long time now. I really would like to test it and most likely preorder it when It's ready, but I'm starting to drift a bit away, Mainly because I don't want it to have the same feeling as Vindictus in combat. For some reason I just don't like it especially when playing as Evie, Casting is wierd, I cant tell if it's Auto Targeting whats in front of you or I'm actually aiming. The way they explain it in the articles and how they display it in their videos on youtube, it looks like itll work but i dont see much of it as Next generation. So it's just a different approach to combat by turing it into an expensive version of vindictus. But It's too soon to jump to conclusions, until NA gets a beta test and I'm in it, I think Ill just keep my mouth shut after clicking POST MESSAGE lol.
Also, I'm stll confused about its world, is it all open like WoW/RIFT or is it Instanced like GW or Linear like the new FF Mmo.
wow wasn't the first you use target locking.
do some research
It is open like WoW/Rift
Not really. Lag is big latency and big latency is lag. Lag spike is hitching. Lag doesn't necessarly mean your avatar is teleporting through the world it also means you have a big latency/ping. So yes, lag is very much related to the delay. T1 servers ensure both reduced lag and delay and hell, it's 2011 and technology is advancing. Btw, many testers in the FGT while playing from Europe in the NA servers didn't experience any big delay at all.
This is one of those things that if you keep both parties "happy" , you will ruin this game. Everyone knows that having the ability to lock on your target is a huge advantage over aiming. So this isn't on of those things that you can have both. Instead they should stick to theirs guns. Tell the people who don't want to have to use some type of skill in their game., that maybe this game isn't for them. Move a long ... another wow clone will be out for you shortly.
Well, before that, you could've possibly (hypothetically) killed an archer without getting hit a single time. Because of your god-like skill at dodging. Right?
Now, it's not possible anymore, because they have a FREAKING LOCK on you, so no matter how much you dodge, you WILL get hit (even if it's just 1 lousy skill).
And about "optional".. as many have stated before, and some people just seem to not understand: If you have an option that gives you an advantage in a multiplayer game, you WILL use it. Why? Because the players you are gonna PvP with will probably use it, and kick your "honest and skilled, but not smart" ass.
I am sure that TERA still wants to get as close to non-targeting as possible, but after implementing their original vision and realizing that it is fail they need to do the right thing and reel it back a bit. This is an intelligent move on their part as if they introduce a game with elements that make the game unreasonable ppl with leave.
Regarding latency:
any mmo that is not using lock-on targetting is going to have playability issues due to latency. There is no way around that unless the game allows you to register a hit based on what you are seeing rather than what the server is seeing. But while that helps the shooter it puts the victim in a bad place because now whatever they do to evade will be delayed.
If you don't want to get frustrated by getting killed by things before you can see them or killed through a wall you just hid behind then stick with third person MMORPG style games. (in other words, hits calculated by a roll and your "to-hit" stat, and their "evade" stat rather than doing physics ballistics calculations)
For an older guy like me, I would rather that my characters aim be defined by the character's skill, not mine, heh. After all, I am roleplaying.
Not that I agree with the changes, but that statement was really well placed. It would convince me, if I wasn't so bored with games that let me drink my coffee, smoke, AND play, at the same time.
I'm not sure who said that the lock-on is an option cause it's not, it would be unfair if it was. The combat didn't really undergo heavy changes other than the pretty much overhauled skills of archer including lock-on on very few skills of the ranged classes. The changes were for the better imo cause let's be honest, it's not really fun missing 24/7.
Thank you for conducting this survey of what percentage of the population will read at least eight posts into a thread before replying. I'm sure that you will agree that the results have been most informative.
Well, that was the point of this thread, right?
Increasing bandwidth doesnt reduce latency. Lag is the summation of several factors including latency. You could have low latency but high lag because you have low bandwidth and there is a delay downloading information such as the location of other players. Increasing bandwidth reduces lag. Latency around the world will still be in the order of hundreds of milliseconds though.
As for the read the post guys, practice what you preach.