seems alot of people with no intention of buying the game sure like to spend a huge amount of time talking about it! good for you !!! keep the interest levels up so the devs will continue to release more info for the rest of us. thank you
Originally posted by knyghttearer seems alot of people with no intention of buying the game sure like to spend a huge amount of time talking about it! good for you !!! keep the interest levels up so the devs will continue to release more info for the rest of us. thank you
your welcome, that would be a nice side effect
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
As soon as I saw them march in on E3 to annouce thins game and started to too say WE have Invented the WHEEL its called STORY I knew this game was going to be a let down for me... BIOWARE DOSENT UNDERSTAND WHAT AN MMO IS. They were DOOMed from the start.
Apparently an MMO is not a game that 12 million people are claiming it is and paying Blizzard X amount of dollars every month.
Sorry to break this to you but your definition of what an MMO is/not isn't accepted by the vast majority of MMO players.
An MMO with a good story hasn't really been done before, esp not to this level. We'll see if this will succeed or not but I highly doubt they won't hit the '500k' sub mark. Heck Bioware can release nothing but a toolset (NWN1 original) and people still bought millions of them.
No, NWN1 OC sucked, it was awful. The 2nd exp on the other hand was very good.
So Farmville is what an MMO should be acording to your numbers logic? because is what Zynga calls its games and way more people play Farmville than WoW , or All other Games combined Period!
Your logic makes zero sense . Oh and farmville has such a rich story....
People play games they consider fun. MMO's before WoW were considered nerd games . Blizzard took the nerd game made it accessible, and we all know the story. And Zynga well ..... lets just say I dont consider those games MMO's but , they are Massive,Multiplayer and Online RPG's ! I mean you play the role of a farmer afterall!
to the OP from what i've read it doesn't set in stone that those races are the classes they are saying granted I belive Miraluka should be republic only as sith pureblood is sith only (have to have that faction element in it other than classes). I think they may be doing this for story reason's as perhaps your racial background will be put into it. Also lighten up from the site this quote they state "We look forward to annoucning further options in the coming months" so lighten up nothing is for certain just yet.
I was dissapointed too when I heard about the space component but that was mainly because I have always wanted a true space sim with an awesome story and ground game and everything in between, this is clearly not going to be that game. I think if you get too worried about what a game should be to fit with your ideal experience your just going to get burned. Sure if they get lore stuff fundamentally wrong and the story has irritating internal logic then its a bad thing but to say the game will be bad because you cant play a class that wasnt prominent in the original films is a bit over the top. If they only let you play as jedi and the story and gameplay was great its still going to be worthwhile right? I mean, bounty hunter, sith, jedi maybe a few extras should satisfy any fan of starwars if its a great game.
as for the thing about going to the darkside. I'll agree its a bit odd that you cant swap sides. mass effect style choices let you do that pretty much but its not a game breaker. They do say that you can choose dark options if your a jedi and behave like a prick but you cant actually become a full blown sith with sith abilities. thats ok because presumably its going to make sense in the pre defined story for your class. if the game was more of a make your own story and role play characters in a huge sandbox starwars world then it would suck but this game looks far more like we should just play along an absorb what these writers have decided upon. they are very good writers afterall and chances are they know even more about the lore than almost anyone and are having to make some pretty tough compromises to make it all work in the confines of the game mechanics.
When I first picked up dragon age origins I had no idea what to expect. I kind of thought it was going to be too generic and lord of the ringish to keep me interested. the graphics werent that great and I just wasnt that interested but there was a lull in games for a while so i grabbed it. damn was I wrong. that story and the clever rpg mechanics. the relationships between characters etc. it just boiled my potatoes in a way I didnt expect. Thats the best way to go into a new game experience. these guys cant do it all, especially when its all voiced. where every class has to have a different story without overlap etc. My strategy is to grab dragon age 2 in a few weeks and play that thing with blinkers on then maybe try the witcher 2 in may. and hopefully by then this will be almost out and I can try it without too many preconceptions.
As soon as I saw them march in on E3 to annouce thins game and started to too say WE have Invented the WHEEL its called STORY I knew this game was going to be a let down for me... BIOWARE DOSENT UNDERSTAND WHAT AN MMO IS. They were DOOMed from the start.
I see where you are coming from , I feel the same way for the most part. To me an MMO is about the gameplay, with .... a Mass of people! not story . I never read the games lore, nor quest text etc... I powergame to max level and then go on to PvP. That is how I play my mmorpg games, and it is what I enjoy.
If I wanted a game for its story then I would buy a Bioware single player game! because lets face it unless you play on a RP server, you can read all that Lore, turn around and there will be L3//K SkieW4l|<3R standing next to you spamming , begging for gear and help;therefore, ruining the immersion of your so called epic story.( amongst Chuck Norris jokes etc...)
I play MMORPG's for the PvP, so the rest of the features really don't bother me or matter to me, I dont care about music/sound ( I listen to my own) I dont care much about graphics, and I dont mind grinding, which brings me to the point in which I agree with you on the reason I think Bioware Doesnt Understand MMO's, or at least some of its players.
Bioware stated that their death penalty would avoid people from grinding on lower end mobs etc. and they want players to take risks into doing certain things that a harsh death penalty would otherwise change a player's mind. For my playstyle and for any efficient powerleveling ( powergamers would agree) the #1 rule is DON'T DIE.
It is not due to xp loss or debt etc. Powerleveling is all about XP per hour so you will always pick the easiest route and dying even if the risk is slight will lower that ratio so i just never risk it Why do quest X for an extra 100xp when quest Z takes half the time and 0 risk; or I can stand on a fast spawn area killing weasy mobs without runing around, and back to town to turn in a quest ?( specially if the run to town takes you 5 minutes round trip)
I don't even Loot when I level up I set a special time to make cash etc.. between grinding sessions, or loot to full pack and just keep grinding as long as weight doesn't hinder me.
I just have hopes that Bioware somehow understands that people that grind do it becasue they choose to and regardless of what they do people will always grind and some folks will always explore etc...
I hope they can introduce their story without getting on the way of what I consider fun. As long as I can ESC from cut scenes etc... I guess I'll be ok for me. I do have faith in them but with EA involved .... well I would never hold my breath.
But, lets be honest here! Do you honestly believe no one thought about introducing STORY as the main focus of an MMORPG before? imho YES , All MMORPG's ( except a few sandboxes) have a story EQ,UO, LOTRO , hell even WOW has a story!
Can I interact with it? YES! I can either close the quest /ignore it or do it!
Bioware is doing nothing new. but adding an extra step before you can accept the quest. I will google the quest see the rewards and pick each answer accordingly!
It is how I play , It is what I enjoy!
The story should be the main focus. Your forgetting that RPG part of the MMO portion of MMORPG. Bioware is just making it a forefront.
As soon as I saw them march in on E3 to annouce thins game and started to too say WE have Invented the WHEEL its called STORY I knew this game was going to be a let down for me... BIOWARE DOSENT UNDERSTAND WHAT AN MMO IS. They were DOOMed from the start.
I see where you are coming from , I feel the same way for the most part. To me an MMO is about the gameplay, with .... a Mass of people! not story . I never read the games lore, nor quest text etc... I powergame to max level and then go on to PvP. That is how I play my mmorpg games, and it is what I enjoy.
If I wanted a game for its story then I would buy a Bioware single player game! because lets face it unless you play on a RP server, you can read all that Lore, turn around and there will be L3//K SkieW4l|<3R standing next to you spamming , begging for gear and help;therefore, ruining the immersion of your so called epic story.( amongst Chuck Norris jokes etc...)
I play MMORPG's for the PvP, so the rest of the features really don't bother me or matter to me, I dont care about music/sound ( I listen to my own) I dont care much about graphics, and I dont mind grinding, which brings me to the point in which I agree with you on the reason I think Bioware Doesnt Understand MMO's, or at least some of its players.
Bioware stated that their death penalty would avoid people from grinding on lower end mobs etc. and they want players to take risks into doing certain things that a harsh death penalty would otherwise change a player's mind. For my playstyle and for any efficient powerleveling ( powergamers would agree) the #1 rule is DON'T DIE.
It is not due to xp loss or debt etc. Powerleveling is all about XP per hour so you will always pick the easiest route and dying even if the risk is slight will lower that ratio so i just never risk it Why do quest X for an extra 100xp when quest Z takes half the time and 0 risk; or I can stand on a fast spawn area killing weasy mobs without runing around, and back to town to turn in a quest ?( specially if the run to town takes you 5 minutes round trip)
I don't even Loot when I level up I set a special time to make cash etc.. between grinding sessions, or loot to full pack and just keep grinding as long as weight doesn't hinder me.
I just have hopes that Bioware somehow understands that people that grind do it becasue they choose to and regardless of what they do people will always grind and some folks will always explore etc...
I hope they can introduce their story without getting on the way of what I consider fun. As long as I can ESC from cut scenes etc... I guess I'll be ok for me. I do have faith in them but with EA involved .... well I would never hold my breath.
But, lets be honest here! Do you honestly believe no one thought about introducing STORY as the main focus of an MMORPG before? imho YES , All MMORPG's ( except a few sandboxes) have a story EQ,UO, LOTRO , hell even WOW has a story!
Can I interact with it? YES! I can either close the quest /ignore it or do it!
Bioware is doing nothing new. but adding an extra step before you can accept the quest. I will google the quest see the rewards and pick each answer accordingly!
It is how I play , It is what I enjoy!
Your perfectly entitled to do this. You can avoid most of the quests all together. You turn the Voice overs to text, rapidly press the space bar to get through a dialog and pick in the direction you want your story to go (light/dark sided). Once you get your ship. You can pick a planet and go grind on mobs. Then change to PvP if you want and grind up xp that way (yes you do gain xp from PvP) Then if you want to change it up. You can do a couple of flash points and kill mobs that way. Then back to grinding. except for maybe the first 7 hours or so your not required to do any of the story or quests. The only reason i say the first 7 hours is thats about how long it takes to get your ship which you'll need to get to the other planets.
I will note that while you can do it this way and your perfectly in your rights, Thats not really the way the game was designed to be played. The focus is on the story and your role in it. giving you more choices and getting you involved with it. However if you simply don't want to do that. You have that choice as well.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
As soon as I saw them march in on E3 to annouce thins game and started to too say WE have Invented the WHEEL its called STORY I knew this game was going to be a let down for me... BIOWARE DOSENT UNDERSTAND WHAT AN MMO IS. They were DOOMed from the start.
Apparently an MMO is not a game that 12 million people are claiming it is and paying Blizzard X amount of dollars every month.
Sorry to break this to you but your definition of what an MMO is/not isn't accepted by the vast majority of MMO players.
An MMO with a good story hasn't really been done before, esp not to this level. We'll see if this will succeed or not but I highly doubt they won't hit the '500k' sub mark. Heck Bioware can release nothing but a toolset (NWN1 original) and people still bought millions of them.
No, NWN1 OC sucked, it was awful. The 2nd exp on the other hand was very good.
The thing is that of those 12 million people how many have played any other mmo in their life? For all those players whos first MMO was WoW, what A+ title has been realeased offering them anything but more of the same? Since 2004 Inovation has almost died in this genre.. everyone is trying to cash in on those 12 million that they have lost all site of being Inovating and creating a fun game...
Im guessing now but I think it goes a little like this. Inovative developers seek money, Suits ( Who have no clue about anything) say hmm this game here has 12m subscribers, why dont you make the game like they have so we get a big nice return of our money. But unlike MacDonalds you cant make Burger king in a creative Enviorment.. Games are like Movies or Books... Poeople want something new to read or something new to watch, this concept has flown by the developers of MMOS. For some reason they think that MORE of the same Is Better, when In fact it is not, and past fail attempts show it clearly, people dont want to play another Item grind/quest raid grind game, and NO amount of voice over story is going to save it... if it is a grind its a grind.. and people will soon see it and quit. It has happend to every A+ title since 2004. WAR, Lotro, champions online, star trek online, AOC and all the rest are not BAD games, but why cant they get more then 100K subs?? Becuase they are Copy Cats all of them, and then they just get a nich audiance that might like the lore or the grafics better then World of Warcraft..
The thing is that of those 12 million people how many have played any other mmo in their life? For all those players whos first MMO was WoW, what A+ title has been realeased offering them anything but more of the same? Since 2004 Inovation has almost died in this genre.. everyone is trying to cash in on those 12 million that they have lost all site of being Inovating and creating a fun game...
Im guessing now but I think it goes a little like this. Inovative developers seek money, Suits ( Who have no clue about anything) say hmm this game here has 12m subscribers, why dont you make the game like they have so we get a big nice return of our money. But unlike MacDonalds you cant make Burger king in a creative Enviorment.. Games are like Movies or Books... Poeople want something new to read or something new to watch, this concept has flown by the developers of MMOS. For some reason they think that MORE of the same Is Better, when In fact it is not, and past fail attempts show it clearly, people dont want to play another Item grind/quest raid grind game, and NO amount of voice over story is going to save it... if it is a grind its a grind.. and people will soon see it and quit. It has happend to every A+ title since 2004. WAR, Lotro, champions online, star trek online, AOC and all the rest are not BAD games, but why cant they get more then 100K subs?? Becuase they are Copy Cats all of them, and then they just get a nich audiance that might like the lore or the grafics better then World of Warcraft..
I agree that the level of creativity and innovation is (a lot) lower in the period of 2005-2010 than it had been in 1999-2004.
Still, people seem to forget that before WoW MMORPG's were doing pretty good with only 100-350k subs. That kind of sub numbers weren't considered a fail back then. As for why most MMO's didn't maintain high numbers, there were usually a few core flaws that could be pointed towards, but mostly it was either a lack of (varied) content and/or a lack of polish, in the form of broken or missing features and bug infestation.
I think this year will be the true test of what MMO gamers really want, since 2011-2012 will show a wide variety in MMO's, of highly polished, content-rich AAA themepark titles to pure sandbox MMO's to innovative, different MMO's to even AAA sandbox MMO's.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i think bioware is making the game they want to make, just not the game alot of other people want them to make. this isnt gonna be star wars galaxies 2, it isnt gonna be wow 2, it is gonna be what bioware wants it to be, a story driven mmo set in the old republic era.
as to your complaints, you stated there was a miraluka in kotor 2 that was a sith, well you never know there could be a good story reason the miraluka turned away from the sith and joined the jedi, you never know and im sure there will be bad apples but the sith couldve done something so unimaginable to them that as a race as a whole they decided to hate the sith and work against them, kind of like humans do with goblins in dungeons and dragons.
battlegrounds are a necessary evil, most people dont want to be ganked over and over while they quest, farm, dance, whatever they enjoy doing, but alot of people want pvp so therefore we have battlegrounds. open ffa pvp will never ever be in a mainstream game again, if it ever was, the first games dont count imo because there was no competition really to ultima, but i guarantee ultima wouldnt be a huge success in todays times, sure it is still going but the only people that play it have been playing it for years, same as asherons call. most gamers dont want it, it is frustrating, its a pain in the butt to get killed by some guys simply because he or she has more time to invest into the game and has better stats, better gear or whatever, not because he is better at the game but because he has more time to invest into the game. hell imo they could take pvp completely out and i woud be fine with it, but i understand some people like it, so keep it in with battlegrounds or consensual pvp, not pvp at a certain level or a certain zone, but pvp because people want to do it with no rewards for it, just killing other people like themselves.
i dont know if swtor is gonna be a good game or not, dont know if i will like it or not, but i think it will be what bioware makes in games and not something else, we just need to leave the name wow out of it.
As soon as I saw them march in on E3 to annouce thins game and started to too say WE have Invented the WHEEL its called STORY I knew this game was going to be a let down for me... BIOWARE DOSENT UNDERSTAND WHAT AN MMO IS. They were DOOMed from the start.
Apparently an MMO is not a game that 12 million people are claiming it is and paying Blizzard X amount of dollars every month.
Sorry to break this to you but your definition of what an MMO is/not isn't accepted by the vast majority of MMO players.
An MMO with a good story hasn't really been done before, esp not to this level. We'll see if this will succeed or not but I highly doubt they won't hit the '500k' sub mark. Heck Bioware can release nothing but a toolset (NWN1 original) and people still bought millions of them.
No, NWN1 OC sucked, it was awful. The 2nd exp on the other hand was very good.
MMOs were NOT supposed to be about the "majority" and the "cool kids". We were perfectly happy in our geeky nerdom thank you very much. If I hate Blizzard for anything, I hate them for inviting the world to our private party, especially since we did not want the world to crash it. We were having a blast until Blizzard told everyone about MMOs (in how they marketed WoW). Telling us that the "majority rules makes everything OK" is horse manure when it comes to MMOs since they started out as a niche hobby to begin with and some of us are not willing to let it become the next popular fad. Nothing ruins a nerd's hobby like a bunch of cool kids showing up un-invited.
Maybe now you will understand our rage better. We did not want the cool kids here at all.... that's one of many reasons we were playing MMOs in the first place.
So if you are a "cool kid" playing MMOs... you can probably guess how I feel about you playing MMOs and whether you belong here at all...
Wow. That has got to be the most pompous and arrogant statement I've ever seen on this site. Considering some of the remarks I've seen in the 5 years I've been posting here that is saying something.
I can't speak for everyone else, but my first experience in MMOs was in 2004 with SWG. Yes, the sandbox game that many in hindsight like to now hold up as some sort of holy grail was what brought me to this genre,NOT WOW. I only got into WOW after the NGE hit. I quickly saw why people were leaving SWG for it. Things that I use to put up with in SWG(broken missions,bugs,lagging,rubberbanding,broken professions) were not the norm in WOW. The game ran much better, was more fun and contrary to what some revisionists like to say had a good group of mature people playing it. You had your occasional imature player, but no different than the random (I pawn Joo) that I had to deal with from SWG, especially those that went jedi(alpha class was also a mistake with that game).
It's not about being the "cool kid." Those people play single player games anyways.
And no one crashed YOUR party because YOU weren't the one throwing it. You were just a guest.The game companies are the ones throwing this party. Since they are the ones holding the purse strings and hold all the risk if the game fails, then THEY are the ones who decide who gets the invitation to this party. Not you. If you don't like it, leave.
You might not like his arrogant answer, but it is true that warcraft introduced a whole new player base to the mmo genre.
The fact is that companies today have to spend more money creating games that can compete with warcraft. Because of that high risk, not many companies want to try new things. By all these factors it's easy to see why people who love mmos would want to keep the concept more or less under the radar.
The same goes for anything these days. Innovation is slowing down everywhere.
As soon as I saw them march in on E3 to annouce thins game and started to too say WE have Invented the WHEEL its called STORY I knew this game was going to be a let down for me... BIOWARE DOSENT UNDERSTAND WHAT AN MMO IS. They were DOOMed from the start.
Apparently an MMO is not a game that 12 million people are claiming it is and paying Blizzard X amount of dollars every month.
Sorry to break this to you but your definition of what an MMO is/not isn't accepted by the vast majority of MMO players.
An MMO with a good story hasn't really been done before, esp not to this level. We'll see if this will succeed or not but I highly doubt they won't hit the '500k' sub mark. Heck Bioware can release nothing but a toolset (NWN1 original) and people still bought millions of them.
No, NWN1 OC sucked, it was awful. The 2nd exp on the other hand was very good.
So Farmville is what an MMO should be acording to your numbers logic? because is what Zynga calls its games and way more people play Farmville than WoW , or All other Games combined Period!
Your logic makes zero sense . Oh and farmville has such a rich story....
People play games they consider fun. MMO's before WoW were considered nerd games . Blizzard took the nerd game made it accessible, and we all know the story. And Zynga well ..... lets just say I dont consider those games MMO's but , they are Massive,Multiplayer and Online RPG's ! I mean you play the role of a farmer afterall!
Apparently, those who play Farmville say they are playing an MMO.
Regardless, if the demand is there for a particular game there will be those who supply it. It is called 'Free Market'.
Don't like it? Don't play it.
I don't particularly like Jazz music, but for me to say 'Music should not have Jazz' is just dumb.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
As soon as I saw them march in on E3 to annouce thins game and started to too say WE have Invented the WHEEL its called STORY I knew this game was going to be a let down for me... BIOWARE DOSENT UNDERSTAND WHAT AN MMO IS. They were DOOMed from the start.
Apparently an MMO is not a game that 12 million people are claiming it is and paying Blizzard X amount of dollars every month.
Sorry to break this to you but your definition of what an MMO is/not isn't accepted by the vast majority of MMO players.
An MMO with a good story hasn't really been done before, esp not to this level. We'll see if this will succeed or not but I highly doubt they won't hit the '500k' sub mark. Heck Bioware can release nothing but a toolset (NWN1 original) and people still bought millions of them.
No, NWN1 OC sucked, it was awful. The 2nd exp on the other hand was very good.
MMOs were NOT supposed to be about the "majority" and the "cool kids". We were perfectly happy in our geeky nerdom thank you very much. If I hate Blizzard for anything, I hate them for inviting the world to our private party, especially since we did not want the world to crash it. We were having a blast until Blizzard told everyone about MMOs (in how they marketed WoW). Telling us that the "majority rules makes everything OK" is horse manure when it comes to MMOs since they started out as a niche hobby to begin with and some of us are not willing to let it become the next popular fad. Nothing ruins a nerd's hobby like a bunch of cool kids showing up un-invited.
Maybe now you will understand our rage better. We did not want the cool kids here at all.... that's one of many reasons we were playing MMOs in the first place.
So if you are a "cool kid" playing MMOs... you can probably guess how I feel about you playing MMOs and whether you belong here at all...
This, this, a million times this. I'm glad someone finally said what we were all thinking. Don't worry though, eventually WoW will lose its luster, and all the cool kids will move on to the next trend.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
You might not like his arrogant answer, but it is true that warcraft introduced a whole new player base to the mmo genre.
The fact is that companies today have to spend more money creating games that can compete with warcraft. Because of that high risk, not many companies want to try new things. By all these factors it's easy to see why people who love mmos would want to keep the concept more or less under the radar.
The same goes for anything these days. Innovation is slowing down everywhere.
A very valid point. However, my counter point to that would be, since WoW came out, and started this "copy cat" syndrome we have seen with the large majority of MMO's that have come out since 2004/2005, how many of the "copy cats" have been all that successful? Many have tried, and many have failed. What the game developers don't seem to understand is that, if people are given a choice to play either, A.) WoW, where they have already been established for some time as a character, or B.) A WoW knock off with a different skin? Well, market trends have shown, that time and time again, people play the game for a month, then quit, and aparently go back to WoW.
I realize WoW has ruined the market as far as inovation is concerned, but I just wish someone would acutally make a game, (WoW-ish or not), that could stand apart and be its own game.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
As soon as I saw them march in on E3 to annouce thins game and started to too say WE have Invented the WHEEL its called STORY I knew this game was going to be a let down for me... BIOWARE DOSENT UNDERSTAND WHAT AN MMO IS. They were DOOMed from the start.
Apparently an MMO is not a game that 12 million people are claiming it is and paying Blizzard X amount of dollars every month.
Sorry to break this to you but your definition of what an MMO is/not isn't accepted by the vast majority of MMO players.
An MMO with a good story hasn't really been done before, esp not to this level. We'll see if this will succeed or not but I highly doubt they won't hit the '500k' sub mark. Heck Bioware can release nothing but a toolset (NWN1 original) and people still bought millions of them.
No, NWN1 OC sucked, it was awful. The 2nd exp on the other hand was very good.
MMOs were NOT supposed to be about the "majority" and the "cool kids". We were perfectly happy in our geeky nerdom thank you very much. If I hate Blizzard for anything, I hate them for inviting the world to our private party, especially since we did not want the world to crash it. We were having a blast until Blizzard told everyone about MMOs (in how they marketed WoW). Telling us that the "majority rules makes everything OK" is horse manure when it comes to MMOs since they started out as a niche hobby to begin with and some of us are not willing to let it become the next popular fad. Nothing ruins a nerd's hobby like a bunch of cool kids showing up un-invited.
Maybe now you will understand our rage better. We did not want the cool kids here at all.... that's one of many reasons we were playing MMOs in the first place.
So if you are a "cool kid" playing MMOs... you can probably guess how I feel about you playing MMOs and whether you belong here at all...
I realize WoW has ruined the market as far as inovation is concerned, but I just wish someone would acutally make a game, (WoW-ish or not), that could stand apart and be its own game.
The thing is they haven't ruined the market no other companies really have deep enough pockets to knock them off their high horse. But they are doing a fine enough job of that on their own as of late. Go read their forums some time. And game devs do get that everyone isn't wanting a WoW knock off but again it comes down to financial resources.
Yes it was okay to have 150-350k subs before WoW hell even some after WoW. But the problem is you have to figure initial upfront investments from companies to these devs and the investors wanting a more secured return in their investment. Hell even since Activision merged with Blizzard you can see how Bobby Kotick has had more of an overseeing in WoW, and he is about one of the most OUTWARDLY money hungry CEO's out there.
There has been other MMO's out there that put Storytelling ahead of eveyrthing else. At least in my opinion Final Fantasy XI had one of the best story telling aspects of any MMO I had played in a while, with cutscense and everything else. While everyone may be on Bioware's bandwagon in this thread I've always had a special place for Squaresoft when it comes to Storytelling and they did a hell of a job in Final Fantasy XI, haven't played the XVI yet but I'm sure they are trying their own WoW knock off. You can blame innovation being lost to the suits that are setting up these investments not Blizzard nor WoW. Because I'm sure if Titan is as big as WoW when they finally do come out with it everyone will switch to blaming Titan for the next batch of crappy Titan knockoffs that will happen if its successful.
I haven't kept up on this game as much as I've liked but then again I am not a Star Wars buff like a lot of people but there will always be restrictions in any MMO that some will not like. The problem is if you're in the minority of a group you're going to get things you really don't like. Take a look at WoW for a reference. Cataclysm comes out everyone starts crying and whining like a spoiled kid Blizz says no we arent nerfing stuff then a few weeks or a month later they go and nerf things even when the minority were asking them not to. I'll say like everyone else has said here wait for more actual info to come out and even give it a shot when it does come out if you don't like it then you can at least say you tried it.
You might not like his arrogant answer, but it is true that warcraft introduced a whole new player base to the mmo genre.
No one has ever disputed this.
The fact is that companies today have to spend more money creating games that can compete with warcraft.
No they don't. Darkfall,EVE and others like it have never been under the illusion that they have to compete with WOW. They're perfectly happy being what they are. Some of you guys act as if those games don't exist and then complain that everything that has come out since WOW is clone, which isn't true. One poster here constantly shows his ignorance by saying that STO is a WOW clone, which anyone who has ever spent time in that game knows is not true.
Because of that high risk, not many companies want to try new things.
Most games that have come out have tried to be unique. Just because the style of the game is a themepark doesn't mean that it can't be inovative. As noted earlier, STO is a themepark yet it is NOTHING like WOW. I've played both games so don't even try and tell me otherwise.
By all these factors it's easy to see why people who love mmos would want to keep the concept more or less under the radar.
Nothing excuses rudeness. If some of you have a problem playing an online game with the masses then I would suggest going back to the pen and paper. Once you hook up to the internet there is no such thing as keeping it "under the radar." Even a simple nerd should understand that concept.
Charisi I agree with many of the points you listed in your original post. Many of the same were the reasons why I will not be purchasing SW:TOR.
SW:TOR will be a huge success and will have millions of players, but SW:TOR will not be what it could have and should have been.
You missed out the In my opinion.
SWTOR will be absolutely fine; And thats not an opinion the game will do well.
Even though i have no interest in the game i came here to say I have given up......... because
Actually I have changed my mind we wopuldn't want to propagate this spitefull post.
Long live SWTOR , oh dear I am starting to sound as lost as the OP.....
The Box price of SWTOR makes it more than value just to have a look around the environment have crafted. Anyone ignoring this excelent opportunity must be a fool of the highest order or just someone who doesn't appreciate a class company.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
As others have said... the game is not out yet and until you have had hands-on time with the full release version why even waste your time about what you think you know. Not everything has been confirmed by Bioware by any means. Sure they have stuff on forums and videos but like all things they are subject to change and it sure is hard to tell how much you like something until you try it. Those that quit at something before it even starts is just hard for me to imagine. I can name many things about many games I did not like or think I would like until I actually played them. Were they still disappointing in some aspects... sure, but I still found a reason to play and some I played much longer than I ever thought I would (WoW).
I would just say until you play it and see everything for yourself even a post by Devs is speculation and certainly doesn't tell you how much you will or won't enjoy something. I played it for a while at PAX and I can tell you that currently their are things I don't like and I played it, but I also know what I played was not near a final product and what I did play was certainly entertaining and fun enough for me to give this game a try at the very least.
Play the GAME then decide... or at the very very least wait for the game to release and see what people are saying (even then I can't rely on what people say, I need to see for myself)
I don't understand why people always think others care about what they think about something, like this game. It's like those, "I'm leaving this game forever" posts. Unless I know, I just don't care. Sorry.
............my opinion soley on the info/videos Bioware have released already.
(didn't want to quote the whole thing)
I just read your whole argument. ... I then something hit me while I was reading it. So I re-read it again. Only this time, I used "Comic Book Guy" (from the simpsons) voice in my head. Exactly how he talks.
You are Comic Book Guy.
Yes lore is important to some. It's understandable you want lore to be correct 100% if you are a fan of Starwars. But you must remember, This is an MMO, not a novel. The rules will always be different in something this expansive as they want to make sure as much as possible that there is the roughly the same number going on both factions.
That's the problem with faction based mmo's. You gotta try and keep the population balanced. That will including bending some lore.
Don't kid yourself OP, I'm fairly certiain your addiction to MMO's and SW will lead you to a ToR purchse ^-^
Have fun playing it when it comes out~
Isn't this the truth for most people here? I bet some people try out games they "already hate before release", just so they can scream about bad things, yet still play it.
Good lord, I know my friends have had love/hate relationships with a few games. Aion, War, WoW, GW, BC2, CoD, you name it. They play one, praising it, saying another is bad. After a while, they start to hate the game they are playing, and praise the one they had been hating. It was funny yet sad at the same time, yet I think it's fairly common among gamers.
Comments
seems alot of people with no intention of buying the game sure like to spend a huge amount of time talking about it! good for you !!! keep the interest levels up so the devs will continue to release more info for the rest of us. thank you
your welcome, that would be a nice side effect
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
So Farmville is what an MMO should be acording to your numbers logic? because is what Zynga calls its games and way more people play Farmville than WoW , or All other Games combined Period!
Your logic makes zero sense . Oh and farmville has such a rich story....
People play games they consider fun. MMO's before WoW were considered nerd games . Blizzard took the nerd game made it accessible, and we all know the story. And Zynga well ..... lets just say I dont consider those games MMO's but , they are Massive,Multiplayer and Online RPG's ! I mean you play the role of a farmer afterall!
to the OP from what i've read it doesn't set in stone that those races are the classes they are saying granted I belive Miraluka should be republic only as sith pureblood is sith only (have to have that faction element in it other than classes). I think they may be doing this for story reason's as perhaps your racial background will be put into it. Also lighten up from the site this quote they state "We look forward to annoucning further options in the coming months" so lighten up nothing is for certain just yet.
I was dissapointed too when I heard about the space component but that was mainly because I have always wanted a true space sim with an awesome story and ground game and everything in between, this is clearly not going to be that game. I think if you get too worried about what a game should be to fit with your ideal experience your just going to get burned. Sure if they get lore stuff fundamentally wrong and the story has irritating internal logic then its a bad thing but to say the game will be bad because you cant play a class that wasnt prominent in the original films is a bit over the top. If they only let you play as jedi and the story and gameplay was great its still going to be worthwhile right? I mean, bounty hunter, sith, jedi maybe a few extras should satisfy any fan of starwars if its a great game.
as for the thing about going to the darkside. I'll agree its a bit odd that you cant swap sides. mass effect style choices let you do that pretty much but its not a game breaker. They do say that you can choose dark options if your a jedi and behave like a prick but you cant actually become a full blown sith with sith abilities. thats ok because presumably its going to make sense in the pre defined story for your class. if the game was more of a make your own story and role play characters in a huge sandbox starwars world then it would suck but this game looks far more like we should just play along an absorb what these writers have decided upon. they are very good writers afterall and chances are they know even more about the lore than almost anyone and are having to make some pretty tough compromises to make it all work in the confines of the game mechanics.
When I first picked up dragon age origins I had no idea what to expect. I kind of thought it was going to be too generic and lord of the ringish to keep me interested. the graphics werent that great and I just wasnt that interested but there was a lull in games for a while so i grabbed it. damn was I wrong. that story and the clever rpg mechanics. the relationships between characters etc. it just boiled my potatoes in a way I didnt expect. Thats the best way to go into a new game experience. these guys cant do it all, especially when its all voiced. where every class has to have a different story without overlap etc. My strategy is to grab dragon age 2 in a few weeks and play that thing with blinkers on then maybe try the witcher 2 in may. and hopefully by then this will be almost out and I can try it without too many preconceptions.
The story should be the main focus. Your forgetting that RPG part of the MMO portion of MMORPG. Bioware is just making it a forefront.
In Bioware we trust!
Your perfectly entitled to do this. You can avoid most of the quests all together. You turn the Voice overs to text, rapidly press the space bar to get through a dialog and pick in the direction you want your story to go (light/dark sided). Once you get your ship. You can pick a planet and go grind on mobs. Then change to PvP if you want and grind up xp that way (yes you do gain xp from PvP) Then if you want to change it up. You can do a couple of flash points and kill mobs that way. Then back to grinding. except for maybe the first 7 hours or so your not required to do any of the story or quests. The only reason i say the first 7 hours is thats about how long it takes to get your ship which you'll need to get to the other planets.
I will note that while you can do it this way and your perfectly in your rights, Thats not really the way the game was designed to be played. The focus is on the story and your role in it. giving you more choices and getting you involved with it. However if you simply don't want to do that. You have that choice as well.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The thing is that of those 12 million people how many have played any other mmo in their life? For all those players whos first MMO was WoW, what A+ title has been realeased offering them anything but more of the same? Since 2004 Inovation has almost died in this genre.. everyone is trying to cash in on those 12 million that they have lost all site of being Inovating and creating a fun game...
Im guessing now but I think it goes a little like this. Inovative developers seek money, Suits ( Who have no clue about anything) say hmm this game here has 12m subscribers, why dont you make the game like they have so we get a big nice return of our money. But unlike MacDonalds you cant make Burger king in a creative Enviorment.. Games are like Movies or Books... Poeople want something new to read or something new to watch, this concept has flown by the developers of MMOS. For some reason they think that MORE of the same Is Better, when In fact it is not, and past fail attempts show it clearly, people dont want to play another Item grind/quest raid grind game, and NO amount of voice over story is going to save it... if it is a grind its a grind.. and people will soon see it and quit. It has happend to every A+ title since 2004. WAR, Lotro, champions online, star trek online, AOC and all the rest are not BAD games, but why cant they get more then 100K subs?? Becuase they are Copy Cats all of them, and then they just get a nich audiance that might like the lore or the grafics better then World of Warcraft..
I agree that the level of creativity and innovation is (a lot) lower in the period of 2005-2010 than it had been in 1999-2004.
Still, people seem to forget that before WoW MMORPG's were doing pretty good with only 100-350k subs. That kind of sub numbers weren't considered a fail back then. As for why most MMO's didn't maintain high numbers, there were usually a few core flaws that could be pointed towards, but mostly it was either a lack of (varied) content and/or a lack of polish, in the form of broken or missing features and bug infestation.
I think this year will be the true test of what MMO gamers really want, since 2011-2012 will show a wide variety in MMO's, of highly polished, content-rich AAA themepark titles to pure sandbox MMO's to innovative, different MMO's to even AAA sandbox MMO's.
So we'll see how the dice will roll.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i think bioware is making the game they want to make, just not the game alot of other people want them to make. this isnt gonna be star wars galaxies 2, it isnt gonna be wow 2, it is gonna be what bioware wants it to be, a story driven mmo set in the old republic era.
as to your complaints, you stated there was a miraluka in kotor 2 that was a sith, well you never know there could be a good story reason the miraluka turned away from the sith and joined the jedi, you never know and im sure there will be bad apples but the sith couldve done something so unimaginable to them that as a race as a whole they decided to hate the sith and work against them, kind of like humans do with goblins in dungeons and dragons.
battlegrounds are a necessary evil, most people dont want to be ganked over and over while they quest, farm, dance, whatever they enjoy doing, but alot of people want pvp so therefore we have battlegrounds. open ffa pvp will never ever be in a mainstream game again, if it ever was, the first games dont count imo because there was no competition really to ultima, but i guarantee ultima wouldnt be a huge success in todays times, sure it is still going but the only people that play it have been playing it for years, same as asherons call. most gamers dont want it, it is frustrating, its a pain in the butt to get killed by some guys simply because he or she has more time to invest into the game and has better stats, better gear or whatever, not because he is better at the game but because he has more time to invest into the game. hell imo they could take pvp completely out and i woud be fine with it, but i understand some people like it, so keep it in with battlegrounds or consensual pvp, not pvp at a certain level or a certain zone, but pvp because people want to do it with no rewards for it, just killing other people like themselves.
i dont know if swtor is gonna be a good game or not, dont know if i will like it or not, but i think it will be what bioware makes in games and not something else, we just need to leave the name wow out of it.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You might not like his arrogant answer, but it is true that warcraft introduced a whole new player base to the mmo genre.
The fact is that companies today have to spend more money creating games that can compete with warcraft. Because of that high risk, not many companies want to try new things. By all these factors it's easy to see why people who love mmos would want to keep the concept more or less under the radar.
The same goes for anything these days. Innovation is slowing down everywhere.
Apparently, those who play Farmville say they are playing an MMO.
Regardless, if the demand is there for a particular game there will be those who supply it. It is called 'Free Market'.
Don't like it? Don't play it.
I don't particularly like Jazz music, but for me to say 'Music should not have Jazz' is just dumb.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
This, this, a million times this. I'm glad someone finally said what we were all thinking. Don't worry though, eventually WoW will lose its luster, and all the cool kids will move on to the next trend.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
A very valid point. However, my counter point to that would be, since WoW came out, and started this "copy cat" syndrome we have seen with the large majority of MMO's that have come out since 2004/2005, how many of the "copy cats" have been all that successful? Many have tried, and many have failed. What the game developers don't seem to understand is that, if people are given a choice to play either, A.) WoW, where they have already been established for some time as a character, or B.) A WoW knock off with a different skin? Well, market trends have shown, that time and time again, people play the game for a month, then quit, and aparently go back to WoW.
I realize WoW has ruined the market as far as inovation is concerned, but I just wish someone would acutally make a game, (WoW-ish or not), that could stand apart and be its own game.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
all the negative response makes me want to play it all the more.
Nerd
I realize WoW has ruined the market as far as inovation is concerned, but I just wish someone would acutally make a game, (WoW-ish or not), that could stand apart and be its own game.
The thing is they haven't ruined the market no other companies really have deep enough pockets to knock them off their high horse. But they are doing a fine enough job of that on their own as of late. Go read their forums some time. And game devs do get that everyone isn't wanting a WoW knock off but again it comes down to financial resources.
Yes it was okay to have 150-350k subs before WoW hell even some after WoW. But the problem is you have to figure initial upfront investments from companies to these devs and the investors wanting a more secured return in their investment. Hell even since Activision merged with Blizzard you can see how Bobby Kotick has had more of an overseeing in WoW, and he is about one of the most OUTWARDLY money hungry CEO's out there.
There has been other MMO's out there that put Storytelling ahead of eveyrthing else. At least in my opinion Final Fantasy XI had one of the best story telling aspects of any MMO I had played in a while, with cutscense and everything else. While everyone may be on Bioware's bandwagon in this thread I've always had a special place for Squaresoft when it comes to Storytelling and they did a hell of a job in Final Fantasy XI, haven't played the XVI yet but I'm sure they are trying their own WoW knock off. You can blame innovation being lost to the suits that are setting up these investments not Blizzard nor WoW. Because I'm sure if Titan is as big as WoW when they finally do come out with it everyone will switch to blaming Titan for the next batch of crappy Titan knockoffs that will happen if its successful.
I haven't kept up on this game as much as I've liked but then again I am not a Star Wars buff like a lot of people but there will always be restrictions in any MMO that some will not like. The problem is if you're in the minority of a group you're going to get things you really don't like. Take a look at WoW for a reference. Cataclysm comes out everyone starts crying and whining like a spoiled kid Blizz says no we arent nerfing stuff then a few weeks or a month later they go and nerf things even when the minority were asking them not to. I'll say like everyone else has said here wait for more actual info to come out and even give it a shot when it does come out if you don't like it then you can at least say you tried it.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You missed out the In my opinion.
SWTOR will be absolutely fine; And thats not an opinion the game will do well.
Even though i have no interest in the game i came here to say I have given up......... because
Actually I have changed my mind we wopuldn't want to propagate this spitefull post.
Long live SWTOR , oh dear I am starting to sound as lost as the OP.....
The Box price of SWTOR makes it more than value just to have a look around the environment have crafted. Anyone ignoring this excelent opportunity must be a fool of the highest order or just someone who doesn't appreciate a class company.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
No wait.. that doesn't make any sense...
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
As others have said... the game is not out yet and until you have had hands-on time with the full release version why even waste your time about what you think you know. Not everything has been confirmed by Bioware by any means. Sure they have stuff on forums and videos but like all things they are subject to change and it sure is hard to tell how much you like something until you try it. Those that quit at something before it even starts is just hard for me to imagine. I can name many things about many games I did not like or think I would like until I actually played them. Were they still disappointing in some aspects... sure, but I still found a reason to play and some I played much longer than I ever thought I would (WoW).
I would just say until you play it and see everything for yourself even a post by Devs is speculation and certainly doesn't tell you how much you will or won't enjoy something. I played it for a while at PAX and I can tell you that currently their are things I don't like and I played it, but I also know what I played was not near a final product and what I did play was certainly entertaining and fun enough for me to give this game a try at the very least.
Play the GAME then decide... or at the very very least wait for the game to release and see what people are saying (even then I can't rely on what people say, I need to see for myself)
I don't understand why people always think others care about what they think about something, like this game. It's like those, "I'm leaving this game forever" posts. Unless I know, I just don't care. Sorry.
(didn't want to quote the whole thing)
I just read your whole argument. ... I then something hit me while I was reading it. So I re-read it again. Only this time, I used "Comic Book Guy" (from the simpsons) voice in my head. Exactly how he talks.
You are Comic Book Guy.
Yes lore is important to some. It's understandable you want lore to be correct 100% if you are a fan of Starwars. But you must remember, This is an MMO, not a novel. The rules will always be different in something this expansive as they want to make sure as much as possible that there is the roughly the same number going on both factions.
That's the problem with faction based mmo's. You gotta try and keep the population balanced. That will including bending some lore.
btw, I will not going to be playing SW:TOR
Isn't this the truth for most people here? I bet some people try out games they "already hate before release", just so they can scream about bad things, yet still play it.
Good lord, I know my friends have had love/hate relationships with a few games. Aion, War, WoW, GW, BC2, CoD, you name it. They play one, praising it, saying another is bad. After a while, they start to hate the game they are playing, and praise the one they had been hating. It was funny yet sad at the same time, yet I think it's fairly common among gamers.