Don't kid yourself OP, I'm fairly certiain your addiction to MMO's and SW will lead you to a ToR purchse ^-^
Have fun playing it when it comes out~
Isn't this the truth for most people here? I bet some people try out games they "already hate before release", just so they can scream about bad things, yet still play it.
Good lord, I know my friends have had love/hate relationships with a few games. Aion, War, WoW, GW, BC2, CoD, you name it. They play one, praising it, saying another is bad. After a while, they start to hate the game they are playing, and praise the one they had been hating. It was funny yet sad at the same time, yet I think it's fairly common among gamers.
I don't understand why people always think others care about what they think about something, like this game. It's like those, "I'm leaving this game forever" posts. Unless I know, I just don't care. Sorry.
I don't understand those either. When I leave a game I don't waste my time with some long ridiculous thread that no one cares about. You're usually given the chance to write out a complaint form when you cancel your account anyways. Some people thrive on drama I guess.
I don't understand why people always think others care about what they think about something, like this game. It's like those, "I'm leaving this game forever" posts. Unless I know, I just don't care. Sorry.
I don't understand those either. When I leave a game I don't waste my time with some long ridiculous thread that no one cares about. You're usually given the chance to write out a complaint form when you cancel your account anyways. Some people thrive on drama I guess.
Some people have nothing better to do , in some ways it's sad in a lot of ways it is ammusing. When you grow up you tend to appreciate the value of time and invest it accordingly. i.e I always type on forums while listening to the Radio/Podcasts or a my favorite tunes....
Inneficiency is a bane.....
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
To be honest, I stopped reading halfway. I'm a crazy bioware nut. Ever since NWN. I'm also a SWG veteran, aren't we all.. Sounds like I served in a great war or something when I say that. I'm also a SW fan, read most books available, I've played SW d20 for years. Ever since I heard rumors about a KOTOR MMO, I was already hooked. I remember walking into EB(gamestop) and the manager told me he heard rumors about it. Later on I heard about it on TV. I still have great faith in this game. The community is the greatest I've ever seen pre-launch of an MMO. This game has so much hype, I'm shocked it has such a low level on this site. With each coming day, fans are lost, but more are gained. I feel that PAX will rebuff everyone into becoming fans again. Probably even adding people to the bandwagon. Bioware isn't worried about losing fans, they have so many they can afford to. What'll really bring you back is when they announce a release date. They don't want to give out a lot of information at once, It'll actually pose negative for them. People feel they learned as much as they need, and they lose interest. I'll say that they aren't releasing enough and holding true to their friday update, but what can I say. I still love the game. I don't really care if it's similar to WoW, what isn't these days. It's like saying every keyboard company is ripping off of the original by using the "QWERTY" layout. Really. Company's really don't want gamers to leave their comfort zone.
To the OP.. there will be a legacy system in TOR that will most probably allow you to play classes with races that you could not choose right at the start of the game. This system encourages replayability
To the OP.. there will be a legacy system in TOR that will most probably allow you to play classes with races that you could not choose right at the start of the game. This system encourages replayability
I think the OP has given up , but another good point.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
To the OP.. there will be a legacy system in TOR that will most probably allow you to play classes with races that you could not choose right at the start of the game. This system encourages replayability
I think the OP has given up , but another good point.
His loss really, that legacy system really is kind of a neat feature that I an pretty sure I will be enjoying.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
As much as I like the idea of a sandbox mmorpg I don't think it can trump a really polished, cinemtic theme park mmorpg experience, YET.
A sandbox to truly be great requires a HUGE amount of content, interaction, and things to do to really be successful and so far most of the so-called sandbox mmo's I have seen are worse than the many failed themepark mmo's I have seen.
For me, a sandbox mmo needs to be absolutely huge, complex and epic. It has to have myriad things to do and complexities. Basically it would have to be a fantastical or sci-fi emulation of life simulator damn near to really draw me in. And it would have to be seriously polished.
Imagine how much time and money it is taking to make SWTOR and how much is going on with it. Imo an amazing sandbox mmo would need 100x the amount of things to do and content to really be good.
I've given Eve Online some play time and I enjoyed it quite abit. But, it lacked in so many things that it really couldn't drag me in.
As an example of the complexity of a sandbox mmorpg I am envisioning imagine a character creation system that massively rivals city of heroes or Champions online. Both in costume pieces, coloring, layering, tattoos, but also in body proportions and facial proportions, muscularity, fat level etc. Then throw in a large list of different voice types to choose from. Then throw in typical stances used by your character while walking, running, fighting etc. Now add in possible physical deformities or scars of your exact design wherever you want them. You control it all. That's just making the character.
Now throw in a massive basic stat point distribution system that greatly affects everything from run speed, jump height/distance, strength, durability, endurance, hit points, intelligence, cunning, reflexes, agility etc etc. Then add in a massively diverse talent tree system that gives an amazing amount of potential builds. Then consider that 2 different characters could have the exact same talent tree point distribution, yet massively different basic stat attributes and you have almost 2 completely different characters. Pehaps because they both have the same talent tree choices they are both very melee burst damage centric and have stealth. A typical melee rogue type build. But, one guy decided to make his character incredibly agile and fast with amazing reflexes while the other pumped his hit points and durability sky high. They would be massively different in how you approached situations just off those couple of stat point differences. The amount of possible character builds would be massive.
And this is all just making your character. Consider that this would be a miniscule amount of data when the world is almost entirely fully interactive and literally anything you can think of making(similar to what you could do in real life) is possible in the game albeit with more fantastical or uber tech levels of awesomeness that reality.
That is what I would want in a sandbox mmo and right now we don't have the cpu's, gpu's, shit the technology to really make something like that happen that also looked amazing. I'm talking a game you could happily play for 10+ years because it would have sooo many things that could be done and I've just scratched the surface.
A game like that would probably require technology 10+ years from now or more to make and require minimum 7-10 years to make and like half a billion dollars. I'm talking imagine Spore, Eve, Mass Effect, SWTOR, Sim City etc etc all wrapped into 1, 1000x that complex and massive in design and scope.
Shit I'm dreaming. A game like that will probably never happen in my lifetime.
I don't understand why people always think others care about what they think about something, like this game. It's like those, "I'm leaving this game forever" posts. Unless I know, I just don't care. Sorry.
Yet you cared enough to read and respond to the thread. interesting.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
bioware is not aiming to sell this game to star wars fans or even mmorpg enthusiasts.
they are going for the WoW crowd. plain and simple. anyone else they can collect is a bonus.
one just need browse their forums to appreciate the kind of posting quality you'd expect from the WoW forums.
but this is not a criticism. it is what it is.
i think its a mistake, because numerous games (most notably Lord of the Rings Online - a popular IP) tried the same strategy and most of the WoW players won't swtich games.
Bioware will have to come up with something trully grand to pull it off; but the fact remains that the WoW model is not a recipe for success. it worked for WoW, at that time and they've managed it well.
bioware is not aiming to sell this game to star wars fans or even mmorpg enthusiasts.
they are going for the WoW crowd. plain and simple. anyone else they can collect is a bonus.
one just need browse their forums to appreciate the kind of posting quality you'd expect from the WoW forums.
but this is not a criticism. it is what it is.
i think its a mistake, because numerous games (most notably Lord of the Rings Online - a popular IP) tried the same strategy and most of the WoW players won't swtich games.
Bioware will have to come up with something trully grand to pull it off; but the fact remains that the WoW model is not a recipe for success. it worked for WoW, at that time and they've managed it well.
Agreed. Aiming for the WoW crowd is a recipe for disaster. This isn't 2005 anymore and devs need to come up with something better than just story and voice over.
bioware is not aiming to sell this game to star wars fans or even mmorpg enthusiasts.
they are going for the WoW crowd. plain and simple. anyone else they can collect is a bonus.
one just need browse their forums to appreciate the kind of posting quality you'd expect from the WoW forums.
but this is not a criticism. it is what it is.
i think its a mistake, because numerous games (most notably Lord of the Rings Online - a popular IP) tried the same strategy and most of the WoW players won't swtich games.
Bioware will have to come up with something trully grand to pull it off; but the fact remains that the WoW model is not a recipe for success. it worked for WoW, at that time and they've managed it well.
Agreed. Aiming for the WoW crowd is a recipe for disaster. This isn't 2005 anymore and devs need to come up with something better than just story and voice over.
The game is not aimed at the Hardcore player but the Star Wars, RPG and Bioware Fans- GamesRadar
When asked about who this game is aimed at: Quote: Everybody really. There are some disparate groups we got to bring together and we knew at the beginning. - TenTonHammer
bioware is not aiming to sell this game to star wars fans or even mmorpg enthusiasts.
they are going for the WoW crowd. plain and simple. anyone else they can collect is a bonus.
one just need browse their forums to appreciate the kind of posting quality you'd expect from the WoW forums.
but this is not a criticism. it is what it is.
i think its a mistake, because numerous games (most notably Lord of the Rings Online - a popular IP) tried the same strategy and most of the WoW players won't swtich games.
Bioware will have to come up with something trully grand to pull it off; but the fact remains that the WoW model is not a recipe for success. it worked for WoW, at that time and they've managed it well.
Agreed. Aiming for the WoW crowd is a recipe for disaster. This isn't 2005 anymore and devs need to come up with something better than just story and voice over.
The game is not aimed at the Hardcore player but the Star Wars, RPG and Bioware Fans- GamesRadar
When asked about who this game is aimed at: Quote: Everybody really. There are some disparate groups we got to bring together and we knew at the beginning. - TenTonHammer
You can quote whatever marketting drivel you want to, but the bottom line is they are trying to take WoW's fanbase, even just a fraction of it. I've been griping about this on the TOR boards for over 2 years now, but the devs (or the suits behind them) are disinclined to listen. They have created a 2nd Gen MMORPG with voice acting and cut scenes. There are two 3rd Gen MMORPGs out there(and I suspect a 3rd come June or so), that I know of, and it saddens me that in 2011 2nd Gen is the best Bioware can do.
The game is not aimed at the Hardcore player but the Star Wars, RPG and Bioware Fans- GamesRadar
When asked about who this game is aimed at: Quote: Everybody really. There are some disparate groups we got to bring together and we knew at the beginning. - TenTonHammer
I disagree with the 2nd quote, but the 1st quote seems to be accurate: sure, not all Star Wars fans will love it, but there are enough Star Wars fans and themepark MMO gamers that dig it, next to rpg gamers and KOTOR fans.
Not every Star Wars fan or MMORPG gamer has the same taste: some will like SWTOR and enjoy it, and some will not. Shrug, just as with any game.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If I can be a jedi and turn into a dark jedi or sith and be the scourge of the Empire, and if I am sith and can turn to the light side of the force, then rely on me that I will play it for that this personal fight between the good and evil is the essence of Star Wars and without mentioning that it would be something very new in mmorpgs
bioware is not aiming to sell this game to star wars fans or even mmorpg enthusiasts.
they are going for the WoW crowd. plain and simple. anyone else they can collect is a bonus.
one just need browse their forums to appreciate the kind of posting quality you'd expect from the WoW forums.
but this is not a criticism. it is what it is.
i think its a mistake, because numerous games (most notably Lord of the Rings Online - a popular IP) tried the same strategy and most of the WoW players won't swtich games.
Bioware will have to come up with something trully grand to pull it off; but the fact remains that the WoW model is not a recipe for success. it worked for WoW, at that time and they've managed it well.
Agreed. Aiming for the WoW crowd is a recipe for disaster. This isn't 2005 anymore and devs need to come up with something better than just story and voice over.
The game is not aimed at the Hardcore player but the Star Wars, RPG and Bioware Fans- GamesRadar
When asked about who this game is aimed at: Quote: Everybody really. There are some disparate groups we got to bring together and we knew at the beginning. - TenTonHammer
You can quote whatever marketting drivel you want to, but the bottom line is they are trying to take WoW's fanbase, even just a fraction of it. I've been griping about this on the TOR boards for over 2 years now, but the devs (or the suits behind them) are disinclined to listen. They have created a 2nd Gen MMORPG with voice acting and cut scenes. There are two 3rd Gen MMORPGs out there(and I suspect a 3rd come June or so), that I know of, and it saddens me that in 2011 2nd Gen is the best Bioware can do.
If thats what you think, great, but thats your opinion and not whats really being shown here. The game is based heavily on a very strong IP, not just based around the Star Wars Universe, but based around the KOTOR games which were very popular.
Appeal to the Star Wars fans? Check.
They are using their patented BioWare storytelling mechanic in many facets of this game. The same kind of mechanic thats been used in most BioWare games, and countless others created using BioWares engine, including KOTOR 2. The same ones they use in DA and ME that multi-millions of players play specifically because these are BioWare games, with this fantastic "pillar" of gameplay, amongst the other great pieces to make masterpieces.
Appeal to BioWare fans? Check.
BioWare creates RPGs, and highly acclaimed ones at that. This shouldn't even be debated at this point, BioWare just makes fantastic RPGs, and though many on this site would like to refute that, its pointless to try. People who like RPGs love BioWare games too.
Appeal to RPG fans? Check.
BioWare has built their own player base through years of creating various masterpieces. They've built this game not just with their fantastic storytelling abilities, but they've added a number of interesting and different concepts to the old, tired WoW inspired systems we've seen. Everything from their ideas on world design, to their class system, to their crafting, it all has something different. "3rd gen" MMOs don't mean they'll be any more fun, or appeal to everyone. As for who SWTOR will appeal to, go back to the beginning of my post and re-read it. I think BioWares desired demographic will be achieved rather easily. To say they are going after the WoW crowd is like saying they are going after the crowd of people who like hamburgers. Yeah, WoW players will play SWTOR, but WoW players play BioWare games too... and at the end of the day, thats what they'll be playing when they play SWTOR. A BioWare game.
Comments
yep, I agree
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Some people have nothing better to do , in some ways it's sad in a lot of ways it is ammusing. When you grow up you tend to appreciate the value of time and invest it accordingly. i.e I always type on forums while listening to the Radio/Podcasts or a my favorite tunes....
Inneficiency is a bane.....
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
To be honest, I stopped reading halfway. I'm a crazy bioware nut. Ever since NWN. I'm also a SWG veteran, aren't we all.. Sounds like I served in a great war or something when I say that. I'm also a SW fan, read most books available, I've played SW d20 for years. Ever since I heard rumors about a KOTOR MMO, I was already hooked. I remember walking into EB(gamestop) and the manager told me he heard rumors about it. Later on I heard about it on TV. I still have great faith in this game. The community is the greatest I've ever seen pre-launch of an MMO. This game has so much hype, I'm shocked it has such a low level on this site. With each coming day, fans are lost, but more are gained. I feel that PAX will rebuff everyone into becoming fans again. Probably even adding people to the bandwagon. Bioware isn't worried about losing fans, they have so many they can afford to. What'll really bring you back is when they announce a release date. They don't want to give out a lot of information at once, It'll actually pose negative for them. People feel they learned as much as they need, and they lose interest. I'll say that they aren't releasing enough and holding true to their friday update, but what can I say. I still love the game. I don't really care if it's similar to WoW, what isn't these days. It's like saying every keyboard company is ripping off of the original by using the "QWERTY" layout. Really. Company's really don't want gamers to leave their comfort zone.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
Maybe if everyone stops complaining, Bioware might actually release it!
All these pre-judgments, the only real way to know is just to play the damn thing.
So stop whining about what could of been, lets just hope it has a effortless launch with few bugs and actually gets released sometime this year! lol
The game is not out yet and it's normal for mmorpg to not have it all from start. They make money by month, give us something new and expansions.
Can't wait to play!
To the OP.. there will be a legacy system in TOR that will most probably allow you to play classes with races that you could not choose right at the start of the game. This system encourages replayability
I think the OP has given up , but another good point.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
His loss really, that legacy system really is kind of a neat feature that I an pretty sure I will be enjoying.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I must have missed that one. What's the legacy all about and do you have links?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
As much as I like the idea of a sandbox mmorpg I don't think it can trump a really polished, cinemtic theme park mmorpg experience, YET.
A sandbox to truly be great requires a HUGE amount of content, interaction, and things to do to really be successful and so far most of the so-called sandbox mmo's I have seen are worse than the many failed themepark mmo's I have seen.
For me, a sandbox mmo needs to be absolutely huge, complex and epic. It has to have myriad things to do and complexities. Basically it would have to be a fantastical or sci-fi emulation of life simulator damn near to really draw me in. And it would have to be seriously polished.
Imagine how much time and money it is taking to make SWTOR and how much is going on with it. Imo an amazing sandbox mmo would need 100x the amount of things to do and content to really be good.
I've given Eve Online some play time and I enjoyed it quite abit. But, it lacked in so many things that it really couldn't drag me in.
As an example of the complexity of a sandbox mmorpg I am envisioning imagine a character creation system that massively rivals city of heroes or Champions online. Both in costume pieces, coloring, layering, tattoos, but also in body proportions and facial proportions, muscularity, fat level etc. Then throw in a large list of different voice types to choose from. Then throw in typical stances used by your character while walking, running, fighting etc. Now add in possible physical deformities or scars of your exact design wherever you want them. You control it all. That's just making the character.
Now throw in a massive basic stat point distribution system that greatly affects everything from run speed, jump height/distance, strength, durability, endurance, hit points, intelligence, cunning, reflexes, agility etc etc. Then add in a massively diverse talent tree system that gives an amazing amount of potential builds. Then consider that 2 different characters could have the exact same talent tree point distribution, yet massively different basic stat attributes and you have almost 2 completely different characters. Pehaps because they both have the same talent tree choices they are both very melee burst damage centric and have stealth. A typical melee rogue type build. But, one guy decided to make his character incredibly agile and fast with amazing reflexes while the other pumped his hit points and durability sky high. They would be massively different in how you approached situations just off those couple of stat point differences. The amount of possible character builds would be massive.
And this is all just making your character. Consider that this would be a miniscule amount of data when the world is almost entirely fully interactive and literally anything you can think of making(similar to what you could do in real life) is possible in the game albeit with more fantastical or uber tech levels of awesomeness that reality.
That is what I would want in a sandbox mmo and right now we don't have the cpu's, gpu's, shit the technology to really make something like that happen that also looked amazing. I'm talking a game you could happily play for 10+ years because it would have sooo many things that could be done and I've just scratched the surface.
A game like that would probably require technology 10+ years from now or more to make and require minimum 7-10 years to make and like half a billion dollars. I'm talking imagine Spore, Eve, Mass Effect, SWTOR, Sim City etc etc all wrapped into 1, 1000x that complex and massive in design and scope.
Shit I'm dreaming. A game like that will probably never happen in my lifetime.
The game isn't even out yet.. shit waaaapocolypse
Yet you cared enough to read and respond to the thread. interesting.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDSwNCwkFSI&feature=player_embedded
first question he answers
As soon as they design it and place it in the game, can I have your stuff?
my stuff is my stuff
Sorry was to the OP, I assume this is some sort of BETA test of their quit post?
The first rule of SW:TOR beta is; You do not talk about SW:TOR beta. :P
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
bioware is not aiming to sell this game to star wars fans or even mmorpg enthusiasts.
they are going for the WoW crowd. plain and simple. anyone else they can collect is a bonus.
one just need browse their forums to appreciate the kind of posting quality you'd expect from the WoW forums.
but this is not a criticism. it is what it is.
i think its a mistake, because numerous games (most notably Lord of the Rings Online - a popular IP) tried the same strategy and most of the WoW players won't swtich games.
Bioware will have to come up with something trully grand to pull it off; but the fact remains that the WoW model is not a recipe for success. it worked for WoW, at that time and they've managed it well.
Agreed. Aiming for the WoW crowd is a recipe for disaster. This isn't 2005 anymore and devs need to come up with something better than just story and voice over.
The game is not aimed at the Hardcore player but the Star Wars, RPG and Bioware Fans- GamesRadar
When asked about who this game is aimed at: Quote: Everybody really. There are some disparate groups we got to bring together and we knew at the beginning. - TenTonHammer
I disagree with the 2nd quote, but the 1st quote seems to be accurate: sure, not all Star Wars fans will love it, but there are enough Star Wars fans and themepark MMO gamers that dig it, next to rpg gamers and KOTOR fans.
Not every Star Wars fan or MMORPG gamer has the same taste: some will like SWTOR and enjoy it, and some will not. Shrug, just as with any game.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If I can be a jedi and turn into a dark jedi or sith and be the scourge of the Empire, and if I am sith and can turn to the light side of the force, then rely on me that I will play it for that this personal fight between the good and evil is the essence of Star Wars and without mentioning that it would be something very new in mmorpgs
If thats what you think, great, but thats your opinion and not whats really being shown here. The game is based heavily on a very strong IP, not just based around the Star Wars Universe, but based around the KOTOR games which were very popular.
Appeal to the Star Wars fans? Check.
They are using their patented BioWare storytelling mechanic in many facets of this game. The same kind of mechanic thats been used in most BioWare games, and countless others created using BioWares engine, including KOTOR 2. The same ones they use in DA and ME that multi-millions of players play specifically because these are BioWare games, with this fantastic "pillar" of gameplay, amongst the other great pieces to make masterpieces.
Appeal to BioWare fans? Check.
BioWare creates RPGs, and highly acclaimed ones at that. This shouldn't even be debated at this point, BioWare just makes fantastic RPGs, and though many on this site would like to refute that, its pointless to try. People who like RPGs love BioWare games too.
Appeal to RPG fans? Check.
BioWare has built their own player base through years of creating various masterpieces. They've built this game not just with their fantastic storytelling abilities, but they've added a number of interesting and different concepts to the old, tired WoW inspired systems we've seen. Everything from their ideas on world design, to their class system, to their crafting, it all has something different. "3rd gen" MMOs don't mean they'll be any more fun, or appeal to everyone. As for who SWTOR will appeal to, go back to the beginning of my post and re-read it. I think BioWares desired demographic will be achieved rather easily. To say they are going after the WoW crowd is like saying they are going after the crowd of people who like hamburgers. Yeah, WoW players will play SWTOR, but WoW players play BioWare games too... and at the end of the day, thats what they'll be playing when they play SWTOR. A BioWare game.