It's not that AAA MMOs can't, it's because they chose not to.
Even if the developers wanted to, they can't.
Publishers might not let them.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Simplest answer is because those don't make the big bucks....games like that aim for 1 server capped out and thats it....because thats profit for them....big companies aim for multiple servers
Yeah that's the most straightforward way of putting it. This featureset appeals to the niche minority but doesn't strongly interest most people.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I would guess that's it's because the people holding the purse strings and calling think they'll make wow level money by copying wow. I'm also guessing they then spend a lot of time wondering why they don't.
It's not that AAA MMOs can't, it's because they chose not to.
Even if the developers wanted to, they can't.
Publishers might not let them.
I do not believe it's an issue with Publishers. Perhaps you meant Investors?
Sorry, I've been making all kinds of typos / dyslexia lately.
I usually type and re-read everything I wrote, (ergh...WRITE) and rarely have errors, but the past few weeks I find that I am doing this CONSTANTLY. It is really worrying me, since I can't do this as a programmer, and even as an artist it gets me into fumbles and troubles (such as renaming images).
I think I might just need a break from all the work I've been doing. Two MMORPG's is too many @_@
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Simplest answer is because those don't make the big bucks....games like that aim for 1 server capped out and thats it....because thats profit for them....big companies aim for multiple servers
Yeah that's the most straightforward way of putting it. This featureset appeals to the niche minority but doesn't strongly interest most people.
I really think they need new words to separate MMORPG's (million population games) to MMORPG's (thousand population games) and everywhere inbetween.
There are some things which "niche" doesn't actually apply to. Permadeath is not a "niche" feature, although people here would claim it to be. RTS and FPS games have permadeath, and rightfully so (although newer FPS games are beginning to add in RPG-like progress, which IMO is a bad move for the genre if done wrong (Call of Duty), but really fun if done right (BF2142)). It's different to have "Progress to Win" and "Progress to be Different".
A "niche" feature doesn't mean a niche game. A crappy copy of WoW doesn't necessarily mean millions of subs and money. A "niche" MMO doesn't necessarily mean it's not worth the investment.
EA, Sony, or Blizzard could do a "niche" game and still make a profit. All that would be required is to not spend hundreds of millions invested in that "niche" game. The less you invest, the less you need a large audience.
These companies would actually be wise to invest little to expect little, because that little adds up, and the "niche" market is far from saturated.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Because as sad it sounds people who only have 20 million to make a game can afford more innovation then people with 200 million budget.
Great way to put it. Somehow developers with smaller budgets are simply better at their job than developers with endless funds.
Probably because it is irrelevant how many funds you have at your disposal-- ideas are cheap in comparison.
Minecraft was a cheap idea resulting in what would be Blizzard's wet dream. Of course, they'd have spent millions to develop the same game.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Most AAA devs are trying to make the big bucks, and if they are making a game they want those things are not necessarily what they want in a game. Honestly, many of those features are extremely sandbox and/or just extremely realistic. In reality not all gamers want that, and AAA companies know that. Do AAA devs need to get more innovative, yes, but is the only way to be innovative to be more realistic...no.
In reality not all gamers want that, and AAA companies know that.
Do they?
Not all gamers want that, but not all gamers want "not that" either. Funny way to say it, but from the last 5 years all I've really seen are developers who refuse to ask what the players want, and instead just release their idea + WoW's "success" thinking that they can copy it by giving players "what they want".
According to popularity, profit, and the market-- players want WoW. That's all players want. Companies know this.
Unfortunately, it's not true. That's not what players want in a new game. They want WoW, not WoW 2, or WoW+, or WoW: UO.
WoW players want WoW.
EQ players want EQ.
UO players want UO.
To say companies know what gamers want is to say that they are successful in what their goals are. Since their goals are to be like WoW, means that they not only don't know what players want (WoW players) but they also don't know what Non-WoW players want.
I'm fully convinced developers just look at what "works" and what is "popular" and add in their own original flair to it. Sadly, when subs drop to a level much lower than they dreamed, they wonder why. Probably because what players "want" is WoW, and they already have it, especially with Cataclysm.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
when it is indie vs mainstream, why ask questions that we have all known the answers to for years?
nothing has changed, and this applies to all aspects of 'indie vs mainstream'. movies, music, games, and so on.
there is no changing things, only becoming an indie, and doing something about it to your liking.
i almost forgot to add, Xyson looks like a very interesting game, and if i was not such a fantasy junkie, i think i would be really looking into subbing. i love freedom, in any form. i just don't know if the premise would keep me.
i am curious to know all of the death rules, and if someone could play as an outlaw.
well since farmville got 20+ mil users and all u can do in that game is grow pumpkins...
you got to ask yourself: what is mainstream and what is niche?
lol, and lol again, not like we didn't see that coming
Soz mainstream devs but killing dragons to "save the world" is niche adolescent stuff while growing pumpkins and collectin wood to build a house is mainstream. As it always was, actually. Lol, and lol again. Enjoy your nurdrage and dwindling subs. Hero's journey and epic quests are on the way out. I'm off to build my tent in Xsyon.
In 5 years time you'll have a thriving market in "sandboxes" grown out of the facebook games played by the mainstream public while it is the adolescents (biological or psychological) that will keep on playing the dragonslaying games. It is a sad sad fact that the "mainstream" developers couldn't see this trend coming, beeing steepd in their adolescent sh**t. Xsyom is a nice crossover game to tie me in while these new games come out. Good luck Bioware, you'll need it lol.
I think it is because most Indie game companies are made up of gamers that really love games. Nowadays, many game design houses higher, artist and level designers, and what not from these game design schools and colleges and the people that go there are not gamers...they just wish to make money making games - they really do not care to make interesting or diverse games. We can also blame the bean counters, the publishers. I am sure they are making sure that game design houses ae sticking to a paradigm that some consider the only road map to follow. Investors are afraid to take chances.
There are numerous things, but I think the main one is Indie companies are made up of gamers that want to make a better game.
Quite well put. Big companies are in the industry to make money, not because they love games. Small indy companies love games and are visionaries.
Unfourtunately a polished game requires alot of resources and hence money, which the indy companies do not have and big companies do. Hence why the genre is polluted with themeparks which are, in all honesty, much more polished.
However it has made the genre quite decadent and dumbed down with little innovation.
It's not that AAA MMOs can't, it's because they chose not to.
Even if the developers wanted to, they can't.
Publishers might not let them.
I do not believe it's an issue with Publishers. Perhaps you meant Investors?
Sorry, I've been making all kinds of typos / dyslexia lately.
I usually type and re-read everything I wrote, (ergh...WRITE) and rarely have errors, but the past few weeks I find that I am doing this CONSTANTLY. It is really worrying me, since I can't do this as a programmer, and even as an artist it gets me into fumbles and troubles (such as renaming images).
I think I might just need a break from all the work I've been doing. Two MMORPG's is too many @_@
Well, I don't think it's an issue with Investors (nor publishers for that matter :P ).
Even if a game company has investors pushing them for an MMORPG similar to WoW, nothing prevents the developers from trying to innovate a little and add certain features that will set the game apart from WoW, rather than just using a popular IP and trying to cash in on it.
RIFT is trying to set itself apart with the Rift systems, of course RIFT isn't quite different to other MMOs out there, but this Dynamic Rift and Soul System does help setting the game apart from others. Guild Wars 2 wants to remove as much grind possible and add more Dynamic Content. There are some big names out there trying to innovate, even with large investors.
In the end, it's Developers who simply choose not to innovate, and go for easy-mode-how-to-make-WoW.
Now you lifted that from Xsyon page correct? Heres the deal ask if those feature are all in place and you might find a different story. Now I like Xsyon but that train has been around a long time. Developers will makes those promises and many do get around to it but until you see it in game dont believe the hype. Hmm I think I might have given this speech like a year or so ago..........*cough* Aion visionshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAM0wr7cZ8 *cough*.
The reason you dont see those enviormental features is super easy why in hell would have a snow zone if the seasons are going to change everywhere. All the animal pop stuff is unique to sandbox and GW2's list a features (to a limit also I will believe it when I see it) and are completely unnecessary for most theme park games.
Soz mainstream devs but killing dragons to "save the world" is niche adolescent stuff while growing pumpkins and collectin wood to build a house is mainstream. As it always was, actually. Lol, and lol again. Enjoy your nurdrage and dwindling subs. Hero's journey and epic quests are on the way out. I'm off to build my tent in Xsyon.
In 5 years time you'll have a thriving market in "sandboxes" grown out of the facebook games played by the mainstream public while it is the adolescents (biological or psychological) that will keep on playing the dragonslaying games. It is a sad sad fact that the "mainstream" developers couldn't see this trend coming, beeing steepd in their adolescent sh**t. Xsyom is a nice crossover game to tie me in while these new games come out. Good luck Bioware, you'll need it lol.
Delusions are fun, but you don't have to justify your love for Farmville/sandbox games by saying that it'll be popular and 'mainstream'. If you really like sandbox games for what they offer, you wouldn't care if even only 1,000 would be playing it, and you certainly wouldn't feel the need to trashtalk other game types just to feel good about your taste and choice of games
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I would say because an indie dev can promise anything, but don't get raged on like a AAA mmo would. An AAA mmo is expected to have a certain amount of polish and feel. An Indie game is not.
An Indie game can put out a themepark sandbox with it missing much of the things they said they'd have because the game lends itself to "doing anything and nothing", a themepark is expected to have rides all the time from start to finish that are good.
It's not that AAA MMOs can't, it's because they chose not to.
Even if the developers wanted to, they can't.
Publishers might not let them.
I do not believe it's an issue with Publishers. Perhaps you meant Investors?
Sorry, I've been making all kinds of typos / dyslexia lately.
I usually type and re-read everything I wrote, (ergh...WRITE) and rarely have errors, but the past few weeks I find that I am doing this CONSTANTLY. It is really worrying me, since I can't do this as a programmer, and even as an artist it gets me into fumbles and troubles (such as renaming images).
I think I might just need a break from all the work I've been doing. Two MMORPG's is too many @_@
Well, I don't think it's an issue with Investors (nor publishers for that matter :P ).
Even if a game company has investors pushing them for an MMORPG similar to WoW, nothing prevents the developers from trying to innovate a little and add certain features that will set the game apart from WoW, rather than just using a popular IP and trying to cash in on it.
RIFT is trying to set itself apart with the Rift systems, of course RIFT isn't quite different to other MMOs out there, but this Dynamic Rift and Soul System does help setting the game apart from others. Guild Wars 2 wants to remove as much grind possible and add more Dynamic Content. There are some big names out there trying to innovate, even with large investors.
In the end, it's Developers who simply choose not to innovate, and go for easy-mode-how-to-make-WoW.
If it truly is the developers who choose not to innovate, then....rawrgh!!! grgrll grgglll RAWR!!!!!!!!!
I believe it though...
I liked the innovation in Rift & GW2, it's a step in a better direction. Better than what? Better than nothing. Hehe...
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
It's not that AAA MMOs can't, it's because they chose not to.
Even if the developers wanted to, they can't.
Publishers might not let them.
I do not believe it's an issue with Publishers. Perhaps you meant Investors?
Sorry, I've been making all kinds of typos / dyslexia lately.
I usually type and re-read everything I wrote, (ergh...WRITE) and rarely have errors, but the past few weeks I find that I am doing this CONSTANTLY. It is really worrying me, since I can't do this as a programmer, and even as an artist it gets me into fumbles and troubles (such as renaming images).
I think I might just need a break from all the work I've been doing. Two MMORPG's is too many @_@
Well, I don't think it's an issue with Investors (nor publishers for that matter :P ).
Even if a game company has investors pushing them for an MMORPG similar to WoW, nothing prevents the developers from trying to innovate a little and add certain features that will set the game apart from WoW, rather than just using a popular IP and trying to cash in on it.
RIFT is trying to set itself apart with the Rift systems, of course RIFT isn't quite different to other MMOs out there, but this Dynamic Rift and Soul System does help setting the game apart from others. Guild Wars 2 wants to remove as much grind possible and add more Dynamic Content. There are some big names out there trying to innovate, even with large investors.
In the end, it's Developers who simply choose not to innovate, and go for easy-mode-how-to-make-WoW.
Rift probably isn't the best example, since Trion is both developer and publisher. That affords them more control over their IP and the direction of the game. When you have an outside publisher (or, with some titles, two or three publishers), they have a certain amount of stake in the product and sometimes a cartain amount of influence in the design or marketing of the game.
Not too long ago on another forum there was a long time poster who announced that he had gotten funding for his MMO. He was a well-liked and respected member of the forum community because he was both helpful and a fellow indie developer. But once he announced that he had funding, the posters turned on him. Suddenly he was the bad guy who was just cashing in, only doing things for the money and didn't care about players. I've known the guy for a couple years and I knew his first and foremost desire was to create an engaging game that people would have fun playing.
Threads like this one are deja vu. There's some magical line between where a person is the Che Guevara of game development and one step over they become some hybrid of Midas and Boss Tweed. It really seems like some seriously unfair villification of people who, in my experience, go to insane lengths to try to create cool stuff for the fans of their games.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Rift probably isn't the best example, since Trion is both developer and publisher. That affords them more control over their IP and the direction of the game. When you have an outside publisher (or, with some titles, two or three publishers), they have a certain amount of stake in the product and sometimes a cartain amount of influence in the design or marketing of the game.
To my knowledge, Publishers have no control over the IP. Only a licensing agreement allowing them to publish in an area, but they have no control nor the ability to bring changes to the game, only the Developers does. I could be wrong though, so if someone can bring more hindsight on Publishers, would be great.
Rift probably isn't the best example, since Trion is both developer and publisher. That affords them more control over their IP and the direction of the game. When you have an outside publisher (or, with some titles, two or three publishers), they have a certain amount of stake in the product and sometimes a cartain amount of influence in the design or marketing of the game.
To my knowledge, Publishers have no control over the IP. Only a licensing agreement allowing them to publish in an area, but they have no control nor the ability to bring changes to the game, only the Developers does. I could be wrong though, so if someone can bring more hindsight on Publishers, would be great.
Unless my mind is failing me...
Isn't SOE a publisher?
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Rift probably isn't the best example, since Trion is both developer and publisher. That affords them more control over their IP and the direction of the game. When you have an outside publisher (or, with some titles, two or three publishers), they have a certain amount of stake in the product and sometimes a cartain amount of influence in the design or marketing of the game.
To my knowledge, Publishers have no control over the IP. Only a licensing agreement allowing them to publish in an area, but they have no control nor the ability to bring changes to the game, only the Developers does. I could be wrong though, so if someone can bring more hindsight on Publishers, would be great.
Unless my mind is failing me...
Isn't SOE a publisher?
SOE is more than a publisher, and owns the IP rights over many of their MMOs (Vanguard, EQ, EQ2, etc), or some of their MMOs are developed by divisions of Sony Online Entertainment LLC.
But for exemple, EQ was a product of Verant Interactive launched in 1999 and published by SOE. SOE bought Verant Interactive in 2000 and became Sony Online Entertainment LLC.
Rift probably isn't the best example, since Trion is both developer and publisher. That affords them more control over their IP and the direction of the game. When you have an outside publisher (or, with some titles, two or three publishers), they have a certain amount of stake in the product and sometimes a cartain amount of influence in the design or marketing of the game.
To my knowledge, Publishers have no control over the IP. Only a licensing agreement allowing them to publish in an area, but they have no control nor the ability to bring changes to the game, only the Developers does. I could be wrong though, so if someone can bring more hindsight on Publishers, would be great.
Unless my mind is failing me...
Isn't SOE a publisher?
SOE is more than a publisher, and owns the IP rights over many of their MMOs (Vanguard, EQ, EQ2, etc), or some of their MMOs are developed by divisions of Sony Online Entertainment LLC.
But for exemple, EQ was a product of Verant Interactive launched in 1999 and published by SOE. SOE bought Verant Interactive in 2000 and became Sony Online Entertainment LLC.
So it was SOE the developer, not SOE the publisher, which "Destroyed" SWG Pre-CU?
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Comments
It's not that AAA MMOs can't, it's because they chose not to.
Even if the developers wanted to, they can't.
Publishers might not let them.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I do not believe it's an issue with Publishers. Perhaps you meant Investors?
Yeah that's the most straightforward way of putting it. This featureset appeals to the niche minority but doesn't strongly interest most people.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I would guess that's it's because the people holding the purse strings and calling think they'll make wow level money by copying wow. I'm also guessing they then spend a lot of time wondering why they don't.
Because as sad it sounds people who only have 20 million to make a game can afford more innovation then people with 200 million budget.
Sorry, I've been making all kinds of typos / dyslexia lately.
I usually type and re-read everything I wrote, (ergh...WRITE) and rarely have errors, but the past few weeks I find that I am doing this CONSTANTLY. It is really worrying me, since I can't do this as a programmer, and even as an artist it gets me into fumbles and troubles (such as renaming images).
I think I might just need a break from all the work I've been doing. Two MMORPG's is too many @_@
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I really think they need new words to separate MMORPG's (million population games) to MMORPG's (thousand population games) and everywhere inbetween.
There are some things which "niche" doesn't actually apply to. Permadeath is not a "niche" feature, although people here would claim it to be. RTS and FPS games have permadeath, and rightfully so (although newer FPS games are beginning to add in RPG-like progress, which IMO is a bad move for the genre if done wrong (Call of Duty), but really fun if done right (BF2142)). It's different to have "Progress to Win" and "Progress to be Different".
A "niche" feature doesn't mean a niche game. A crappy copy of WoW doesn't necessarily mean millions of subs and money. A "niche" MMO doesn't necessarily mean it's not worth the investment.
EA, Sony, or Blizzard could do a "niche" game and still make a profit. All that would be required is to not spend hundreds of millions invested in that "niche" game. The less you invest, the less you need a large audience.
These companies would actually be wise to invest little to expect little, because that little adds up, and the "niche" market is far from saturated.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Great way to put it. Somehow developers with smaller budgets are simply better at their job than developers with endless funds.
Probably because it is irrelevant how many funds you have at your disposal-- ideas are cheap in comparison.
Minecraft was a cheap idea resulting in what would be Blizzard's wet dream. Of course, they'd have spent millions to develop the same game.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Most AAA devs are trying to make the big bucks, and if they are making a game they want those things are not necessarily what they want in a game. Honestly, many of those features are extremely sandbox and/or just extremely realistic. In reality not all gamers want that, and AAA companies know that. Do AAA devs need to get more innovative, yes, but is the only way to be innovative to be more realistic...no.
-I want a Platformer MMO
Do they?
Not all gamers want that, but not all gamers want "not that" either. Funny way to say it, but from the last 5 years all I've really seen are developers who refuse to ask what the players want, and instead just release their idea + WoW's "success" thinking that they can copy it by giving players "what they want".
According to popularity, profit, and the market-- players want WoW. That's all players want. Companies know this.
Unfortunately, it's not true. That's not what players want in a new game. They want WoW, not WoW 2, or WoW+, or WoW: UO.
WoW players want WoW.
EQ players want EQ.
UO players want UO.
To say companies know what gamers want is to say that they are successful in what their goals are. Since their goals are to be like WoW, means that they not only don't know what players want (WoW players) but they also don't know what Non-WoW players want.
I'm fully convinced developers just look at what "works" and what is "popular" and add in their own original flair to it. Sadly, when subs drop to a level much lower than they dreamed, they wonder why. Probably because what players "want" is WoW, and they already have it, especially with Cataclysm.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
when it is indie vs mainstream, why ask questions that we have all known the answers to for years?
nothing has changed, and this applies to all aspects of 'indie vs mainstream'. movies, music, games, and so on.
there is no changing things, only becoming an indie, and doing something about it to your liking.
i almost forgot to add, Xyson looks like a very interesting game, and if i was not such a fantasy junkie, i think i would be really looking into subbing. i love freedom, in any form. i just don't know if the premise would keep me.
i am curious to know all of the death rules, and if someone could play as an outlaw.
well since farmville got 20+ mil users and all u can do in that game is grow pumpkins...
you got to ask yourself: what is mainstream and what is niche?
lol, and lol again, not like we didn't see that coming
Soz mainstream devs but killing dragons to "save the world" is niche adolescent stuff while growing pumpkins and collectin wood to build a house is mainstream. As it always was, actually. Lol, and lol again. Enjoy your nurdrage and dwindling subs. Hero's journey and epic quests are on the way out. I'm off to build my tent in Xsyon.
In 5 years time you'll have a thriving market in "sandboxes" grown out of the facebook games played by the mainstream public while it is the adolescents (biological or psychological) that will keep on playing the dragonslaying games. It is a sad sad fact that the "mainstream" developers couldn't see this trend coming, beeing steepd in their adolescent sh**t. Xsyom is a nice crossover game to tie me in while these new games come out. Good luck Bioware, you'll need it lol.
Quite well put. Big companies are in the industry to make money, not because they love games. Small indy companies love games and are visionaries.
Unfourtunately a polished game requires alot of resources and hence money, which the indy companies do not have and big companies do. Hence why the genre is polluted with themeparks which are, in all honesty, much more polished.
However it has made the genre quite decadent and dumbed down with little innovation.
My gaming blog
Well, I don't think it's an issue with Investors (nor publishers for that matter :P ).
Even if a game company has investors pushing them for an MMORPG similar to WoW, nothing prevents the developers from trying to innovate a little and add certain features that will set the game apart from WoW, rather than just using a popular IP and trying to cash in on it.
RIFT is trying to set itself apart with the Rift systems, of course RIFT isn't quite different to other MMOs out there, but this Dynamic Rift and Soul System does help setting the game apart from others. Guild Wars 2 wants to remove as much grind possible and add more Dynamic Content. There are some big names out there trying to innovate, even with large investors.
In the end, it's Developers who simply choose not to innovate, and go for easy-mode-how-to-make-WoW.
Now you lifted that from Xsyon page correct? Heres the deal ask if those feature are all in place and you might find a different story. Now I like Xsyon but that train has been around a long time. Developers will makes those promises and many do get around to it but until you see it in game dont believe the hype. Hmm I think I might have given this speech like a year or so ago..........*cough* Aion visionshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAM0wr7cZ8 *cough*.
The reason you dont see those enviormental features is super easy why in hell would have a snow zone if the seasons are going to change everywhere. All the animal pop stuff is unique to sandbox and GW2's list a features (to a limit also I will believe it when I see it) and are completely unnecessary for most theme park games.
Delusions are fun, but you don't have to justify your love for Farmville/sandbox games by saying that it'll be popular and 'mainstream'. If you really like sandbox games for what they offer, you wouldn't care if even only 1,000 would be playing it, and you certainly wouldn't feel the need to trashtalk other game types just to feel good about your taste and choice of games
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I would say because an indie dev can promise anything, but don't get raged on like a AAA mmo would. An AAA mmo is expected to have a certain amount of polish and feel. An Indie game is not.
An Indie game can put out a themepark sandbox with it missing much of the things they said they'd have because the game lends itself to "doing anything and nothing", a themepark is expected to have rides all the time from start to finish that are good.
DarkFall and Mortal Online would like to disagree with you.
If it truly is the developers who choose not to innovate, then....rawrgh!!! grgrll grgglll RAWR!!!!!!!!!
I believe it though...
I liked the innovation in Rift & GW2, it's a step in a better direction. Better than what? Better than nothing. Hehe...
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Rift probably isn't the best example, since Trion is both developer and publisher. That affords them more control over their IP and the direction of the game. When you have an outside publisher (or, with some titles, two or three publishers), they have a certain amount of stake in the product and sometimes a cartain amount of influence in the design or marketing of the game.
Not too long ago on another forum there was a long time poster who announced that he had gotten funding for his MMO. He was a well-liked and respected member of the forum community because he was both helpful and a fellow indie developer. But once he announced that he had funding, the posters turned on him. Suddenly he was the bad guy who was just cashing in, only doing things for the money and didn't care about players. I've known the guy for a couple years and I knew his first and foremost desire was to create an engaging game that people would have fun playing.
Threads like this one are deja vu. There's some magical line between where a person is the Che Guevara of game development and one step over they become some hybrid of Midas and Boss Tweed. It really seems like some seriously unfair villification of people who, in my experience, go to insane lengths to try to create cool stuff for the fans of their games.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
To my knowledge, Publishers have no control over the IP. Only a licensing agreement allowing them to publish in an area, but they have no control nor the ability to bring changes to the game, only the Developers does. I could be wrong though, so if someone can bring more hindsight on Publishers, would be great.
Unless my mind is failing me...
Isn't SOE a publisher?
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
SOE is more than a publisher, and owns the IP rights over many of their MMOs (Vanguard, EQ, EQ2, etc), or some of their MMOs are developed by divisions of Sony Online Entertainment LLC.
But for exemple, EQ was a product of Verant Interactive launched in 1999 and published by SOE. SOE bought Verant Interactive in 2000 and became Sony Online Entertainment LLC.
So it was SOE the developer, not SOE the publisher, which "Destroyed" SWG Pre-CU?
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.