ROFL, not even close. The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?), is that their subs are far far less.
If I didn't think you're highly biased and are wishing from the tips of your toes to have Rift fail (as some people tend to do when they feel disappointed or 'betrayed' by a game), then this is the comment that completely convinces me.
So... what? Rift servers have on average like only 4000 player accounts to you? In its launch month? Really??
You know that servers of any MMO, especially when they're medium to high populated usually have 10k-30k player accounts attached to it, right? That 3-5k usually is the amount already of the concurrent player base of a server, certainly right after launch?
WAR had 113 servers and opened with 700k-1 million sales
AoC had 49 servers, with 700k sales
Aion had like 6-7k players simultaneously logged in per server in its launch month
Like Rift, don't like Rift, whatever, to each their own. Try to use some realism and common sense and sense for proportion in your arguments though, else it just shows that colored bias trumps reason in your arguments.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Why are people so keen to try and undermine a new game when it comes out. I can't help but wonder what Werth's modus operandi is ... I dont play Rift, I tried it in beta and its defitely not for me, but I hope it does well and establishes itself as a solid and successful MMO. After all, the more choice we have, the more the developers will try harder to capture our business.
To try and undermine a game because you dont like it is staggeringly selfish, as there are plenty who do like it and who are we to stop or undermine their fun??
It does make you wonder.
If any future MMO developer took a snap shot of the doom and gloom that is always spouted here around new releases then tbh I would expect them to just walk away and not bother creating anything new, nobody wants it.
Rift produced a solid game, game launch was extremely good, it's got fun features and plenty of places to explore and adventure in, yet ppl still have to come here and tell those playing that it's crap, it's not selling, it's a clone of some other game, the list is endless.
To the nay sayers get a life, to those playing Rift, enjoy what you've got, it's a darn good game and it's definately worth the money.
Totally, surely we want more developers working harder to attract our interest and therefore cash. With all the hating that goes with EVERY game release its a wonder that developers bother to start work on projects. Like I said, Rift is very much not for me, but for all those that play and enjoy it, I am very happy, long may it continue to grow and grow. To all those who are trying to undermine it .... why?
On a side note, can you imagine if new cars were subjected to the same mindless hate/adoration??? "
"Wow, the new Mercedes is hideous and will defintely have no steering or seating worth its salt, I hope they pull it and go bust so all their cars are buried... "
"nooooo ... noooo ... how can you say that, if it wasnt for Mercedes the world would have stopped turning and we would all be dead .... Its the best best car ever ..."
I also disagree with the validity of these numbers. They have to be higher. However I also agree they are no where near a million.
Probably not a million, though around 500k-750k is probably reasonable, which is more than a healthy number of box sales. Its the retention that matters, and it wouldn't need much retention to be the second or third most successful na mmo.
500k-750k?
ROFL, not even close. The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?), is that their subs are far far less. Furthermore, after launch sales, what happens to those numbers? At the 3 month mark they usually DROP. Meaning, people QUIT after playing around with the game and their subs expire. It is part of the MMORPG pattern.
Only 1 mmorpg I can think of in the last 6 years has managed to increase their sub count past the 3 month mark and that is WoW. No other mmorpg shows signs of doing that any time soon. In fact, Rift is showing the same signs as all the ther mmorpgs that dwindle between 3-6 months into a very small niche player base that usually drives new people away yet manages to keep the game barely alive.
Make it two MMOs as Eve Online has grown steadily over the years and pretty much defied the usual patterns.
Actually make four CoH and Lotro had more players years after their release than the original box sales.
Why are people so keen to try and undermine a new game when it comes out. I can't help but wonder what Werth's modus operandi is ... I dont play Rift, I tried it in beta and its defitely not for me, but I hope it does well and establishes itself as a solid and successful MMO. After all, the more choice we have, the more the developers will try harder to capture our business.
To try and undermine a game because you dont like it is staggeringly selfish, as there are plenty who do like it and who are we to stop or undermine their fun??
It's a cruel world...
People forget we are talking about games sometime and think this is their life... like it DEPENDS on them to destroy a game's reputation (like they could... *rolls eyes*).
Why they do it, no one knows... For me, I see a attempt of attention, like my dog does when she wants to call for me. I shush her but still, she barks louder. I stop talking and focus on the PC, she shuts up after 10-20 seconds.
I don't know why people just can't go to a forum like this one, say what did or didn't like and just walk away and leave the other players to think for themselves.
I mean, no one is paying them to do that... is it fanboys trying to make people come back to their games so they don't fell alone after years of the same crap? I really don't know. But the best option is to say: "They are idiots" for doing whatever they are doing (unless if they are ACTUALLY getting payed... if so, they still are failing)
I pointed this out in another thread too, but I'll do it again here. There are lots of games I don't like and simply ignore. For the most part, they've been single player games or FPS games. They don't require much of a commitment from people and allow people to move back and forth between games easily. An MMO is a different beast though; once you start playing one, you usually dedicated yourself to playing that one for a long period of time.
If there were a bunch of vastly different style MMOs on the market, then each of them attracting their customers wouldn't be all that bad. I never criticized a lot of the older ones I never got around to playing, because they were each different from one another - they each added to the genre as a whole. People could play their game for years but due to the differences between titles, not have an impact on other games being released.
Then WoW happened...
Now, games like Rift add little to the genre. They copy & paste the gameplay from another title and wrap it up in their packaging. The genre doesn't progress; new improvements aren't made and a greater number of people become brainwashed into spending all their time on these mainstream titles while never allowing another unique idea to shine through.
They are to MMO's what Farmville is to the rest of video gaming. They attract a generation of people who have no memory of what an MMO was like or the potential they could have and instead, placate them with fancy graphics, easy game play and lots of special effects. These people then cry out for more games to be made just like this one and pretty soon, every developer who thought about making a different style game is coerced into producing one just like "that last one" or releasing a half-finished skeleton of a game.
To see a game intentionally being created in this style from the ground-up is a slap in the face for gamers who have seen the ups and downs of games in the past and are waiting for this "dead" or more accurately, "homogenized" era of MMO gaming to come to an end. To us, Rift is simply a vulture, or leech in the video game industry.
ROFL, not even close. The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?), is that their subs are far far less.
If I didn't think you're highly biased and are wishing from the tips of your toes to have Rift fail (as some people tend to do when they feel disappointed or 'betrayed' by a game), then this is the comment that completely convinces me.
So... what? Rift servers have on average like only 4000 player accounts to you? In its launch month? Really??
You know that servers of any MMO, especially when they're medium to high populated usually have 10k-30k player accounts attached to it, right? That 3-5k usually is the amount already of the concurrent player base of a server, certainly right after launch?
WAR had 113 servers and opened with 700k-1 million sales
AoC had 49 servers, with 700k sales
Aion had like 6-7k players simultaneously logged in per server in its launch month
Like Rift, don't like Rift, whatever, to each their own. Try to use some realism and common sense and sense for proportion in your arguments though, else it just shows that colored bias trumps reason in your arguments.
Bias? You mean YOUR bias? The one which you use to go after anyone that says something worth while that can make Rift not fit on the pedestal you have placed it on?
Will you be a hypocrite?
I said nothing on the quality of Rift, only that it's sub numbers are far less than some of you fanboys have been touting and that like MMORPG patterns reveal, it's numbers WILL drop at the dreaded 3 month mark whether you LIKE it or not. You turn your denial into personal attacks or attempts at belittlement all you want. Let it conform to your ego for all I care, but it wont change the result.
That is reality, sorry you dont want to accept it. Even good mmorpgs lose large chunks of subs around 3 months and then 6 months whether they deserve it or not. Deal with it.
Is this week one meaning the Thursday through Saturday of headstart or week 1 meaning the Sunday through Saturday after headstart and including the official release on Tuesday.
I think most people got it on the first three days, so this info might be somewhat accurate for the first official week, but I find it hard to believe it's close to headstart numbers.
The game seems super popular and these numbers are lower than for DCUO, which doesn't seem likely.
BUT, some things to note:
First, the servers aren't really servers, but instead are shards, so I'm not sure how that factors in.
Second, and probably more importantly, when the servers hit full on the first hour after headstart, they weren't really full. They were drastically limiting how many people could be on at the same time because they didn't want the starting areas to be incredibly overcrowded. We don't know how many they let on, but it could be anywhere from a few hundred to a thousand or possibly more. But you can't say with confidence that a full server at that point meant that it had 3k concurrent users.
I also disagree with the validity of these numbers. They have to be higher. However I also agree they are no where near a million.
Probably not a million, though around 500k-750k is probably reasonable, which is more than a healthy number of box sales. Its the retention that matters, and it wouldn't need much retention to be the second or third most successful na mmo.
500k-750k?
ROFL, not even close.
I said *box sales*, not subs, If you even read what i said, you would see that I go on to say that retention aka how many subs that actually hold is what matters. 500k-750k sales is more than logical unless your a completely illogical hater. 10k-15k concurrent online steam users alone, how many do you think bought from steam? Of those, how many do you believe are on at any moment?
How many preorder from rifts website? I know there was a vast majorty of people who preordered thro there, myself included. Then you add in amazon(where both the collectors edition and digitial download are top sales for weeks), and other digitial retail centers. Then you can go ahead and add on vg's estimated box sales... and your actually trying to deny that 500k-750k is not reasonable for *box sales*
The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?)
Ironic
People need to get over their rift vendettas... and any mmorpg vendetta honestly.
I pointed this out in another thread too, but I'll do it again here. There are lots of games I don't like and simply ignore. For the most part, they've been single player games or FPS games. They don't require much of a commitment from people and allow people to move back and forth between games easily. An MMO is a different beast though; once you start playing one, you usually dedicated yourself to playing that one for a long period of time.
If there were a bunch of vastly different style MMOs on the market, then each of them attracting their customers wouldn't be all that bad. I never criticized a lot of the older ones I never got around to playing, because they were each different from one another - they each added to the genre as a whole. People could play their game for years but due to the differences between titles, not have an impact on other games being released.
Then WoW happened...
Now, games like Rift add little to the genre. They copy & paste the gameplay from another title and wrap it up in their packaging. The genre doesn't progress; new improvements aren't made and a greater number of people become brainwashed into spending all their time on these mainstream titles while never allowing another unique idea to shine through.
They are to MMO's what Farmville is to the rest of video gaming. They attract a generation of people who have no memory of what an MMO was like or the potential they could have and instead, placate them with fancy graphics, easy game play and lots of special effects. These people then cry out for more games to be made just like this one and pretty soon, every developer who thought about making a different style game is coerced into producing one just like "that last one" or releasing a half-finished skeleton of a game.
To see a game intentionally being created in this style from the ground-up is a slap in the face for gamers who have seen the ups and downs of games in the past and are waiting for this "dead" or more accurately, "homogenized" era of MMO gaming to come to an end. To us, Rift is simply a vulture, or leech in the video game industry.
What sometimes people forget is that... MMO, or any other game, is a BUSNIESS... a serious market. Time is money, do what the other did, do it better if you can, put some new shiny stuff and it is good to go.
Please, the companies don't need to "please" each group of people, they only need to invest on the BIG FAT HUGE GROUP that likes THIS and not THAT.
If there are 10.000.000 people (making up a random number) that like chocolate and there are only 2 brands with chocolate, but then there is 1.000.000.000 people (another stupid random number) that like strawberry and 100 brands on strawberry , your not going to make a chocolate, your going for the strawberry because more people like it. All you have to do is put sugar on the strawberries, that the other 100 strawberry factories actually NEVER did it before, and your loading in cash while the chocolate loving people are stuck with 2 factories, but who cares about the 10.000.000 when you can earn love from all the 1.000.000.000 instanly?
"Your not in Strawberry island anymore", your on "Strawberry with sugar island now". Like sugar, don't like sugar, they don't care if 750.000.000 people don't like it, compared to the rest of the 250.000.000, it is still a bigger number than the hole that like chocolate (10.000.000).
I like Rift, but like other people, I will play until the next wagon with more strawberries come... with another sprincklers. Why? Because I'm not still that tired of strawberries, even though something diferent would be welcome... but the truth is, the other options still DON'T please.
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last. |BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
There were 4000+ ques because at the time there was only a few servers for EU/US hence why there are 100+ now. Don't you remember the mass panic because Trion didn't have enough servers on launch?
Wrong, there were more than enough servers in the U.S. for what would of been a reasonable estimate of incoming players. There were tons, actually I was worried there were too many at first but they got hit with an insanely high demand. I don't believe these numbers at all as most servers in the U.S. alone are full or high, and never low even on off-peak hours except for two of the newest ones which also reach high on peak hours. You also have to take into account this probably isn't talking about pre-orders through Trion which is what most people did, this is probably from the March 1st launch date and beyond. Even so, though I wouldn't believe anything about sales numbers until Trion posts them.
I also disagree with the validity of these numbers. They have to be higher. However I also agree they are no where near a million.
Probably not a million, though around 500k-750k is probably reasonable, which is more than a healthy number of box sales. Its the retention that matters, and it wouldn't need much retention to be the second or third most successful na mmo.
500k-750k?
ROFL, not even close.
I said *box sales*, not subs, If you even read what i said, you would see that I go on to say that retention aka how many subs that actually hold is what matters. 500k-750k sales is more than logical unless your a completely illogical hater. 10k-15k concurrent online steam users alone, how many do you think bought from steam? Of those, how many do you believe are on at any moment?
How many preorder from rifts website? I know there was a vast majorty of people who preordered thro there, myself included. Then you add in amazon(where both the collectors edition and digitial download are top sales for weeks), and other digitial retail centers. Then you can go ahead and add on vg's estimated box sales... and your actually trying to deny that 500k-750k is not reasonable for *box sales*
The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?)
Ironic
People need to get over their rift vendettas... and any mmorpg vendetta honestly.
Box sales not digital sales. I am responding to this idea that box sales = subs, which they do not. It also came across that you were trying to suggest box sales were relatable to people actually playing the game, that easily the rettention from just those numbers alone would make it the most successful. The point is the numbers will drop after the time is up or at the 3 month mark. Furthermore, do you include copies bought for retailers to sell or actual sales to individuals FROM the retailers? This is why I say 500k-750k is unrealistic at this point. The number of sales to individuals from retailers is not going to be that high at this point. Most of the time, publishers love to tout box sales as the number of copies they shipped TO retailers, it doesnt actually mean the game has been purchased by a consumer from the retailer.
Vendetta, a silly word for this type of dialog. It goes both ways however, the rhetoric of both fanboy level support and hate of a product is no good. Regardless of what you MAY think, Trion thinking it was good marketing to verbally go after WoW was not only deperate but ripe for negative backlash. They brought it upon themselves and Trion's marketing is a good reminder of what not to do in this industry, even for a new start up deperate to succeed.
I also disagree with the validity of these numbers. They have to be higher. However I also agree they are no where near a million.
Probably not a million, though around 500k-750k is probably reasonable, which is more than a healthy number of box sales. Its the retention that matters, and it wouldn't need much retention to be the second or third most successful na mmo.
500k-750k?
ROFL, not even close.
I said *box sales*, not subs, If you even read what i said, you would see that I go on to say that retention aka how many subs that actually hold is what matters. 500k-750k sales is more than logical unless your a completely illogical hater. 10k-15k concurrent online steam users alone, how many do you think bought from steam? Of those, how many do you believe are on at any moment?
How many preorder from rifts website? I know there was a vast majorty of people who preordered thro there, myself included. Then you add in amazon(where both the collectors edition and digitial download are top sales for weeks), and other digitial retail centers. Then you can go ahead and add on vg's estimated box sales... and your actually trying to deny that 500k-750k is not reasonable for *box sales*
The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?)
Ironic
People need to get over their rift vendettas... and any mmorpg vendetta honestly.
Box sales not digital sales. I am responding to this idea that box sales = subs, which they do not. It also came across that you were trying to suggest box sales were relatable to people actually playing the game, that easily the rettention from just those numbers alone would make it the most successful. The point is the numbers will drop after the time is up or at the 3 month mark. Furthermore, do you include copies bought for retailers to sell or actual sales to individuals FROM the retailers? This is why I say 500k-750k is unrealistic at this point. The number of sales to individuals from retailers is not going to be that high at this point. Most of the time, publishers love to tout box sales as the number of copies they shipped TO retailers, it doesnt actually mean the game has been purchased by a consumer from the retailer.
Vendetta, a silly word for this type of dialog. It goes both ways however, the rhetoric of both fanboy level support and hate of a product is no good. Regardless of what you MAY think, Trion thinking it was good marketing to verbally go after WoW was not only deperate but ripe for negative backlash. They brought it upon themselves and Trion's marketing is a good reminder of what not to do in this industry, even for a new start up deperate to succeed.
Perhaps i should rephrase, and thats my fault. When i said box sales I was refering to sales including digital sales, as in total sales of game to individual, looking back my wording was a little confusing. But how you can actually be trying to refute the fact that this game probably has somewhere around 500k-750k sales in total. Why is that unrealistic? You keep saying its immposible but your not offering anything to refute that when everything points to the fact that that number is more than likely
Regardles, people just need to except the fact that this game has had a fairly successful *first few weeks*. Smooth launch, very large amount and populated servers, frequent updates, ect. Retention has yet to be seen, and most of those games that your using as reference to the drastic drop in sales-to-subs had absolutely horrible launches.
The whole point was that the numbers given in this thread were either out of context or unrealistic. I mean 100k sales? Thats stupid, maybe physical box sales, but not total.
edit- Also, the game probably wouldn't need much retention to become the second or thrid most popular NA mmo (lets say 40-50% retention hypothetically), like i said before. Unless their is a mass exodus of subs like in the train wrecks of aoc and war, it will probably be easily up there in popularity with Eve.
1.No one implied any idea that boxsales = subs yet in this discussion. Everyone is talking about sales of the gameclient and the OP pretending some rough extrapolated physical boxsales = all sales inc. digital sales and other kind of orders.
2. No one even implied that the are X boxsales based on any of that retailerinformation aside from the OP in ignorance.
3.User here are talking about client sales, based uppon serverpopulations, servernumbers, the frequent majorly high serveractivities and serverqueues (not on unkown boxsales or unkown general sales of gameunits) where the number of 500-750k is within reasonable ranges. Unless of course you arent missunderstanding and simply denying them in ignorance just like the OP.
I don't know if those numbers provided by the OP are accurate or not but I do know this: Trion has had plenty of time to reflect on the numbers that they do have control over, namely digital downloads. But they obviously are nothing worth publishing. And this coming from a company that had no issue with boasting about the 1 million accounts created nor their bold jab at the 800 lb gorilla with their silly tagline.
So now all of a sudden their mouths are sealed and their youthful energies have been squelched by the weight of reality. When do you think they will release their numbers? I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Rift is a game, some people like it and some dont. I am currently playing and enjoy it very much (which is suprising to me).
But I must comment on this "server queue hype". I play on a post head start medium population server. I see people everywhere in every zone Ive been to. As a DPS I can get in a dungeon group in under 2 minuites using zone chat. I cant imagine how populated the servers must be when full.
Bias? You mean YOUR bias? The one which you use to go after anyone that says something worth while that can make Rift not fit on the pedestal you have placed it on?
Will you be a hypocrite?
I said nothing on the quality of Rift, only that it's sub numbers are far less than some of you fanboys have been touting and that like MMORPG patterns reveal, it's numbers WILL drop at the dreaded 3 month mark whether you LIKE it or not. You turn your denial into personal attacks or attempts at belittlement all you want. Let it conform to your ego for all I care, but it wont change the result.
That is reality, sorry you dont want to accept it. Even good mmorpgs lose large chunks of subs around 3 months and then 6 months whether they deserve it or not. Deal with it.
Try better next time.
I hold Rift on no pedestal at all, I'm fairly neutral towards it, so there goes your whole argument.
But if people - fanbois as well as haters - are starting to use insanely illogical arguments, just because they hate/love a game to the point that it colors their judgement, then yes, I call their viewpoint out for what it is.
Use your brains for a moment and realise what you're saying: far far less than 500k subs - that is like 4,000 players per server and less - in its launch month... really??
Have you been paying an INCH of attention towards the MMORPG market and other MMO launches, the number of servers they had and how it related to the number of sales? Do you know how unrealistic that makes your whole argument sound?
Because it does, to anyone who looks objectively at things.
Sorry you can't accept it, but I'm happy to quote you in my sig when the actual sales figures will be revealed.
As for the decline in sub numbers, I haven't said anything about that, so don't try to make it about something I wasn't talking about at all: of course there will be decline, I even mentioned that in other threads, how much remains to be seen. But what - I - was talking about was the unrealistic statement of 'far, far less than 500k subs' that fully ignores the reality of WAR/LotrO/AoC/Aion launch and sales figures and the 100 Rift servers that exist.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I thought pre-sales would be even better. With this said Who cares wait till it hits the first 30 days you do not know how any mmo will do till after the free month is up remember Conan? PS: I think this game will face dive after 30 days and will level off at less then 100,000 players worldwide. That is not a horiable number, but not a monster number either. Of course eveyone knows WoW has 13 million, the cloest I know next to that is what I play EQ2 which with their new expansion they sold the most pre-orders of any of their expansion and its a 6 year old game. Last I heard EQ2 had around 1.5 million-2 million for good reason EQ2 is still so much fun, as with the mentor system you can play with any of your friends or guild mates anyone that has never tried EQ2 I really suggest you do. Only bad thing on EQ2 is the game does not get great FPS even on top systems of today, and of course SOE support sux. With that said though the game is so good it makes up for this I would give EQ2 a 9 out of 10 myself, and if you look at released titles on this site you will see EQ2 has been in the top 5 rated for Years.
I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Rift is a game, some people like it and some dont. I am currently playing and enjoy it very much (which is suprising to me).
But I must comment on this "server queue hype". I play on a post head start medium population server. I see people everywhere in every zone Ive been to. As a DPS I can get in a dungeon group in under 2 minuites using zone chat. I cant imagine how populated the servers must be when full.
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Rift is a game, some people like it and some dont. I am currently playing and enjoy it very much (which is suprising to me).
But I must comment on this "server queue hype". I play on a post head start medium population server. I see people everywhere in every zone Ive been to. As a DPS I can get in a dungeon group in under 2 minuites using zone chat. I cant imagine how populated the servers must be when full.
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
I don't see how your response applies to what the discussion. Yes, eventually most people will be at lvl 50 and many zones will have less player activity. I am simply saying that there are currently people literally everywhere I look on a medium population server. All of those people bought Rift. So I disagree, because of my experience in game, that the developers put low maximum limits on the number allowed in the server before it reaches "FULL" and queues are required.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The vast, vast majority of people riding around on two headed turtles, a mount only available through pre-orders, says most of the people bought the game through some sort of digital download, either from Steam (like I did), D2D or Trion's own website. I've used data from the website the OP cited before regarding DCU but I acknowledged that the numbers didn't include digital downloads but DCU was different since it was available on PS3 as well.
Long story short, the chart reflects only boxed sales and NOT digital downloads, which seems to be how most people acquired the game. I know the OP was trying to make Rift out to be a failure but so far, its anything but. Time will tell if it continues to be as successful.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Lol @ showing numbers from "small retailers". So basically they're excluding D2D, Trion's own website, and Steam. Look at Cataclysm's numbers (as others have pointed out). Being off by 1.5 MILLION is about as accurate as a weather man. What a retarded guesstimate.
The vast, vast majority of people riding around on two headed turtles, a mount only available through pre-orders, says most of the people bought the game through some sort of digital download, either from Steam (like I did), D2D or Trion's own website. I've used data from that site before regarding DCU but I acknowledged that the numbers didn't include digital downloads but DCU was different since it was available on PS3 as well.
Long story short, the chart reflects only boxed sales and NOT digital downloads, which seems to be how most people acquired the game. I know the OP was trying to make Rift out to be a failure but so far, its anything but. Time will tell if it continues to be as successful.
I ordered online but after the game released so I don't even have the mount. So +1 there. And yes, tons of people do have the mount, definitely more than half of the people I've seen while leveling.
Btw, this leads me to another thing. mmogawd and I made little bet about Rift Sales in the first week. Contents of this little agreement of hours can be seen here:
BUT, in the the spirit of good forum relations, mmogawd, i relieve you from your obligation.
Fuck forum relations!
And as soon as we get official sales numbers, I'll most certainly live up to my end of the bargain, and I would expect you to do the same.
Considering Rift has been on the best seller list for Amazon, Gamestop, and several downloadable sites for several weeks, we can be sure that these numbers you're showing are extremely low estimates, to say the least.
Comments
If I didn't think you're highly biased and are wishing from the tips of your toes to have Rift fail (as some people tend to do when they feel disappointed or 'betrayed' by a game), then this is the comment that completely convinces me.
So... what? Rift servers have on average like only 4000 player accounts to you? In its launch month? Really??
You know that servers of any MMO, especially when they're medium to high populated usually have 10k-30k player accounts attached to it, right? That 3-5k usually is the amount already of the concurrent player base of a server, certainly right after launch?
WAR had 113 servers and opened with 700k-1 million sales
AoC had 49 servers, with 700k sales
Aion had like 6-7k players simultaneously logged in per server in its launch month
Like Rift, don't like Rift, whatever, to each their own. Try to use some realism and common sense and sense for proportion in your arguments though, else it just shows that colored bias trumps reason in your arguments.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Totally, surely we want more developers working harder to attract our interest and therefore cash. With all the hating that goes with EVERY game release its a wonder that developers bother to start work on projects. Like I said, Rift is very much not for me, but for all those that play and enjoy it, I am very happy, long may it continue to grow and grow. To all those who are trying to undermine it .... why?
On a side note, can you imagine if new cars were subjected to the same mindless hate/adoration??? "
"Wow, the new Mercedes is hideous and will defintely have no steering or seating worth its salt, I hope they pull it and go bust so all their cars are buried... "
"nooooo ... noooo ... how can you say that, if it wasnt for Mercedes the world would have stopped turning and we would all be dead .... Its the best best car ever ..."
Actually make four CoH and Lotro had more players years after their release than the original box sales.
I pointed this out in another thread too, but I'll do it again here. There are lots of games I don't like and simply ignore. For the most part, they've been single player games or FPS games. They don't require much of a commitment from people and allow people to move back and forth between games easily. An MMO is a different beast though; once you start playing one, you usually dedicated yourself to playing that one for a long period of time.
If there were a bunch of vastly different style MMOs on the market, then each of them attracting their customers wouldn't be all that bad. I never criticized a lot of the older ones I never got around to playing, because they were each different from one another - they each added to the genre as a whole. People could play their game for years but due to the differences between titles, not have an impact on other games being released.
Then WoW happened...
Now, games like Rift add little to the genre. They copy & paste the gameplay from another title and wrap it up in their packaging. The genre doesn't progress; new improvements aren't made and a greater number of people become brainwashed into spending all their time on these mainstream titles while never allowing another unique idea to shine through.
They are to MMO's what Farmville is to the rest of video gaming. They attract a generation of people who have no memory of what an MMO was like or the potential they could have and instead, placate them with fancy graphics, easy game play and lots of special effects. These people then cry out for more games to be made just like this one and pretty soon, every developer who thought about making a different style game is coerced into producing one just like "that last one" or releasing a half-finished skeleton of a game.
To see a game intentionally being created in this style from the ground-up is a slap in the face for gamers who have seen the ups and downs of games in the past and are waiting for this "dead" or more accurately, "homogenized" era of MMO gaming to come to an end. To us, Rift is simply a vulture, or leech in the video game industry.
Bias? You mean YOUR bias? The one which you use to go after anyone that says something worth while that can make Rift not fit on the pedestal you have placed it on?
Will you be a hypocrite?
I said nothing on the quality of Rift, only that it's sub numbers are far less than some of you fanboys have been touting and that like MMORPG patterns reveal, it's numbers WILL drop at the dreaded 3 month mark whether you LIKE it or not. You turn your denial into personal attacks or attempts at belittlement all you want. Let it conform to your ego for all I care, but it wont change the result.
That is reality, sorry you dont want to accept it. Even good mmorpgs lose large chunks of subs around 3 months and then 6 months whether they deserve it or not. Deal with it.
Is this week one meaning the Thursday through Saturday of headstart or week 1 meaning the Sunday through Saturday after headstart and including the official release on Tuesday.
I think most people got it on the first three days, so this info might be somewhat accurate for the first official week, but I find it hard to believe it's close to headstart numbers.
The game seems super popular and these numbers are lower than for DCUO, which doesn't seem likely.
BUT, some things to note:
First, the servers aren't really servers, but instead are shards, so I'm not sure how that factors in.
Second, and probably more importantly, when the servers hit full on the first hour after headstart, they weren't really full. They were drastically limiting how many people could be on at the same time because they didn't want the starting areas to be incredibly overcrowded. We don't know how many they let on, but it could be anywhere from a few hundred to a thousand or possibly more. But you can't say with confidence that a full server at that point meant that it had 3k concurrent users.
What sometimes people forget is that... MMO, or any other game, is a BUSNIESS... a serious market. Time is money, do what the other did, do it better if you can, put some new shiny stuff and it is good to go.
Please, the companies don't need to "please" each group of people, they only need to invest on the BIG FAT HUGE GROUP that likes THIS and not THAT.
If there are 10.000.000 people (making up a random number) that like chocolate and there are only 2 brands with chocolate, but then there is 1.000.000.000 people (another stupid random number) that like strawberry and 100 brands on strawberry , your not going to make a chocolate, your going for the strawberry because more people like it. All you have to do is put sugar on the strawberries, that the other 100 strawberry factories actually NEVER did it before, and your loading in cash while the chocolate loving people are stuck with 2 factories, but who cares about the 10.000.000 when you can earn love from all the 1.000.000.000 instanly?
"Your not in Strawberry island anymore", your on "Strawberry with sugar island now". Like sugar, don't like sugar, they don't care if 750.000.000 people don't like it, compared to the rest of the 250.000.000, it is still a bigger number than the hole that like chocolate (10.000.000).
I like Rift, but like other people, I will play until the next wagon with more strawberries come... with another sprincklers. Why? Because I'm not still that tired of strawberries, even though something diferent would be welcome... but the truth is, the other options still DON'T please.
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last.
|BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Wrong, there were more than enough servers in the U.S. for what would of been a reasonable estimate of incoming players. There were tons, actually I was worried there were too many at first but they got hit with an insanely high demand. I don't believe these numbers at all as most servers in the U.S. alone are full or high, and never low even on off-peak hours except for two of the newest ones which also reach high on peak hours. You also have to take into account this probably isn't talking about pre-orders through Trion which is what most people did, this is probably from the March 1st launch date and beyond. Even so, though I wouldn't believe anything about sales numbers until Trion posts them.
Box sales not digital sales. I am responding to this idea that box sales = subs, which they do not. It also came across that you were trying to suggest box sales were relatable to people actually playing the game, that easily the rettention from just those numbers alone would make it the most successful. The point is the numbers will drop after the time is up or at the 3 month mark. Furthermore, do you include copies bought for retailers to sell or actual sales to individuals FROM the retailers? This is why I say 500k-750k is unrealistic at this point. The number of sales to individuals from retailers is not going to be that high at this point. Most of the time, publishers love to tout box sales as the number of copies they shipped TO retailers, it doesnt actually mean the game has been purchased by a consumer from the retailer.
Vendetta, a silly word for this type of dialog. It goes both ways however, the rhetoric of both fanboy level support and hate of a product is no good. Regardless of what you MAY think, Trion thinking it was good marketing to verbally go after WoW was not only deperate but ripe for negative backlash. They brought it upon themselves and Trion's marketing is a good reminder of what not to do in this industry, even for a new start up deperate to succeed.
Perhaps i should rephrase, and thats my fault. When i said box sales I was refering to sales including digital sales, as in total sales of game to individual, looking back my wording was a little confusing. But how you can actually be trying to refute the fact that this game probably has somewhere around 500k-750k sales in total. Why is that unrealistic? You keep saying its immposible but your not offering anything to refute that when everything points to the fact that that number is more than likely
Regardles, people just need to except the fact that this game has had a fairly successful *first few weeks*. Smooth launch, very large amount and populated servers, frequent updates, ect. Retention has yet to be seen, and most of those games that your using as reference to the drastic drop in sales-to-subs had absolutely horrible launches.
The whole point was that the numbers given in this thread were either out of context or unrealistic. I mean 100k sales? Thats stupid, maybe physical box sales, but not total.
edit- Also, the game probably wouldn't need much retention to become the second or thrid most popular NA mmo (lets say 40-50% retention hypothetically), like i said before. Unless their is a mass exodus of subs like in the train wrecks of aoc and war, it will probably be easily up there in popularity with Eve.
QFT
I don't know if those numbers provided by the OP are accurate or not but I do know this: Trion has had plenty of time to reflect on the numbers that they do have control over, namely digital downloads. But they obviously are nothing worth publishing. And this coming from a company that had no issue with boasting about the 1 million accounts created nor their bold jab at the 800 lb gorilla with their silly tagline.
So now all of a sudden their mouths are sealed and their youthful energies have been squelched by the weight of reality. When do you think they will release their numbers? I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Rift is a game, some people like it and some dont. I am currently playing and enjoy it very much (which is suprising to me).
But I must comment on this "server queue hype". I play on a post head start medium population server. I see people everywhere in every zone Ive been to. As a DPS I can get in a dungeon group in under 2 minuites using zone chat. I cant imagine how populated the servers must be when full.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Try better next time.
I hold Rift on no pedestal at all, I'm fairly neutral towards it, so there goes your whole argument.
But if people - fanbois as well as haters - are starting to use insanely illogical arguments, just because they hate/love a game to the point that it colors their judgement, then yes, I call their viewpoint out for what it is.
Use your brains for a moment and realise what you're saying: far far less than 500k subs - that is like 4,000 players per server and less - in its launch month... really??
Have you been paying an INCH of attention towards the MMORPG market and other MMO launches, the number of servers they had and how it related to the number of sales? Do you know how unrealistic that makes your whole argument sound?
Because it does, to anyone who looks objectively at things.
Sorry you can't accept it, but I'm happy to quote you in my sig when the actual sales figures will be revealed.
As for the decline in sub numbers, I haven't said anything about that, so don't try to make it about something I wasn't talking about at all: of course there will be decline, I even mentioned that in other threads, how much remains to be seen. But what - I - was talking about was the unrealistic statement of 'far, far less than 500k subs' that fully ignores the reality of WAR/LotrO/AoC/Aion launch and sales figures and the 100 Rift servers that exist.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If that's confirmed, that's pretty disappointing.
But I bet the number is well over 500K.
I remember back when I was in my 20's and worried about how many copies of a video game sold............oh wait.... no I don't.
I thought pre-sales would be even better. With this said Who cares wait till it hits the first 30 days you do not know how any mmo will do till after the free month is up remember Conan? PS: I think this game will face dive after 30 days and will level off at less then 100,000 players worldwide. That is not a horiable number, but not a monster number either. Of course eveyone knows WoW has 13 million, the cloest I know next to that is what I play EQ2 which with their new expansion they sold the most pre-orders of any of their expansion and its a 6 year old game. Last I heard EQ2 had around 1.5 million-2 million for good reason EQ2 is still so much fun, as with the mentor system you can play with any of your friends or guild mates anyone that has never tried EQ2 I really suggest you do. Only bad thing on EQ2 is the game does not get great FPS even on top systems of today, and of course SOE support sux. With that said though the game is so good it makes up for this I would give EQ2 a 9 out of 10 myself, and if you look at released titles on this site you will see EQ2 has been in the top 5 rated for Years.
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I don't see how your response applies to what the discussion. Yes, eventually most people will be at lvl 50 and many zones will have less player activity. I am simply saying that there are currently people literally everywhere I look on a medium population server. All of those people bought Rift. So I disagree, because of my experience in game, that the developers put low maximum limits on the number allowed in the server before it reaches "FULL" and queues are required.
edit: for spelling
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Only if you stop believing that 100 medium to full servers doesn't say anything about player numbers and game sales.
Like I said:
- WAR had 113 servers and had 700k-1 million sales
- AoC had 49 servers and 700k sales
- Aion had 6-7k players logged in simultaneously per server when it had high/full population servers in its launch month
You can believe all you like, but me, I prefer to keep an eye on the MMORPG genre in general and what's fairly common among MMORPG's.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
lol, I remember reading on the official forums that rift had over 1 million pre-orders worldwide alone!
But, in the spirit of fun +1
Emberlord ~ Defiant to the End!
The vast, vast majority of people riding around on two headed turtles, a mount only available through pre-orders, says most of the people bought the game through some sort of digital download, either from Steam (like I did), D2D or Trion's own website. I've used data from the website the OP cited before regarding DCU but I acknowledged that the numbers didn't include digital downloads but DCU was different since it was available on PS3 as well.
Long story short, the chart reflects only boxed sales and NOT digital downloads, which seems to be how most people acquired the game. I know the OP was trying to make Rift out to be a failure but so far, its anything but. Time will tell if it continues to be as successful.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Lol @ showing numbers from "small retailers". So basically they're excluding D2D, Trion's own website, and Steam. Look at Cataclysm's numbers (as others have pointed out). Being off by 1.5 MILLION is about as accurate as a weather man. What a retarded guesstimate.
The vast, vast majority of people riding around on two headed turtles, a mount only available through pre-orders, says most of the people bought the game through some sort of digital download, either from Steam (like I did), D2D or Trion's own website. I've used data from that site before regarding DCU but I acknowledged that the numbers didn't include digital downloads but DCU was different since it was available on PS3 as well.
Long story short, the chart reflects only boxed sales and NOT digital downloads, which seems to be how most people acquired the game. I know the OP was trying to make Rift out to be a failure but so far, its anything but. Time will tell if it continues to be as successful.
I ordered online but after the game released so I don't even have the mount. So +1 there. And yes, tons of people do have the mount, definitely more than half of the people I've seen while leveling.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Fuck forum relations!
And as soon as we get official sales numbers, I'll most certainly live up to my end of the bargain, and I would expect you to do the same.
Considering Rift has been on the best seller list for Amazon, Gamestop, and several downloadable sites for several weeks, we can be sure that these numbers you're showing are extremely low estimates, to say the least.