I dunno. It seems like common sense to figure out those numbers don't add up.
If Rift had 1 million + subs, I'm sure they would scream that out. But as low as the OP said, well, that just looks very, very silly. I don't see why you'd coming running to the forum screaming this out.
That being said, this game COULD have the basis for a much bigger gain. Let's say 750k subs. If it holds 600k subs at the end of the month, you could see that number begin to grow over the next months. You could see them break 1 million. As more people play it, the more that will play it.
Good luck to it! A bunch of my friends are enjoying it. I'd rather play something else.
As of right now, on Amazons OFFICIAL SITE, -- RIFT Collectors edition is #1 for PC games sold by digital download. The regular edition download of RIFT is #3.
I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Rift is a game, some people like it and some dont. I am currently playing and enjoy it very much (which is suprising to me).
But I must comment on this "server queue hype". I play on a post head start medium population server. I see people everywhere in every zone Ive been to. As a DPS I can get in a dungeon group in under 2 minuites using zone chat. I cant imagine how populated the servers must be when full.
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
I don't see how your response applies to what the discussion. Yes, eventually most people will be at lvl 50 and many zones will have less player activity. I am simply saying that there are currently people literally everywhere I look on a medium population server. All of those people bought Rift. So I disagree, because of my experience in game, that the developers put low maximum limits on the number allowed in the server before it reaches "FULL" and queues are required.
edit: for spelling
My response applies directly to what you are experiencing now. As I said you are at the crest of the wave along with everyone else. It's like running in a marathon. In the begining everyone is like running together, so you see a lot of ppl around you. From zone to zone you are all leveling at about the same pace so with each new zone you enter you have your frontrunners, the pack you're running with and the slowpokes. So when the front runners are about to switch zones (ahead of you), you have your slowpokes just entering the area you've been in. It seems like a ton of people are around, but it's just population migration.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
I don't see how your response applies to what the discussion.
My response applies directly to what you are experiencing now. As I said you are at the crest of the wave along with everyone else. (snips)
You say that every MMO that has been released behaves the same, Rift included, but then you ignore the simple and obvious fact that every one of those MMO's had like 10k+ players per server, and that Rift isn't like all those other MMORPG's. Now, does that sound reasonable to you?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Btw, this leads me to another thing. mmogawd and I made little bet about Rift Sales in the first week. Contents of this little agreement of hours can be seen here:
BUT, in the the spirit of good forum relations, mmogawd, i relieve you from your obligation.
Fuck forum relations!
And as soon as we get official sales numbers, I'll most certainly live up to my end of the bargain, and I would expect you to do the same.
Considering Rift has been on the best seller list for Amazon, Gamestop, and several downloadable sites for several weeks, we can be sure that these numbers you're showing are extremely low estimates, to say the least.
Btw, this leads me to another thing. mmogawd and I made little bet about Rift Sales in the first week. Contents of this little agreement of hours can be seen here:
BUT, in the the spirit of good forum relations, mmogawd, i relieve you from your obligation.
Fuck forum relations!
And as soon as we get official sales numbers, I'll most certainly live up to my end of the bargain, and I would expect you to do the same.
Considering Rift has been on the best seller list for Amazon, Gamestop, and several downloadable sites for several weeks, we can be sure that these numbers you're showing are extremely low estimates, to say the least.
If you insist.
As i posted a earliar current estimates are 750k box sales, it is currently the no 2 MMO in NA/Europe based on player population. Xfire and other tracker back the latter statement.
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
I don't see how your response applies to what the discussion.
My response applies directly to what you are experiencing now. As I said you are at the crest of the wave along with everyone else. (snips)
You say that every MMO that has been released behaves the same, Rift included, but then you ignore the simple and obvious fact that every one of those MMO's had like 10k+ players per server, and that Rift isn't like all those other MMORPG's. Now, does that sound reasonable to you?
As far as the sale numbers are concerned I said if Trion had any confidence in them, they'd be released by now. That goes for their digital sales records. As far as the server caps you keep thinking all mmo share, like I said, that is a hype I'm not willing to believe in unless you have server specs from Trion to back it up. Until then all you are doing is regurgitating useless speculations from developer talking points from the past that only served the purpose of inflating their own wishful agendas.
Stop buying into the hype and play if you're going to play. But if you're going to continue trying to hype something like sale numbers despite the fact that the actual company is not, then you're just as bad as the fanboys.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
I don't see how your response applies to what the discussion.
My response applies directly to what you are experiencing now. As I said you are at the crest of the wave along with everyone else. (snips)
You say that every MMO that has been released behaves the same, Rift included, but then you ignore the simple and obvious fact that every one of those MMO's had like 10k+ players per server, and that Rift isn't like all those other MMORPG's. Now, does that sound reasonable to you?
As far as the sale numbers are concerned I said if Trion had any confidence in them, they'd be released by now. That goes for their digital sales records. As far as the server caps you keep thinking all mmo share, like I said, that is a hype I'm not willing to believe in unless you have server specs from Trion to back it up. Until then all you are doing is regurgitating useless speculations from developer talking points from the past that only served the purpose of inflating their own wishful agendas.
Stop buying into the hype and play if you're going to play. But if you're going to continue trying to hype something like sale numbers despite the fact that the actual company is not, then you're just as bad as the fanboys.
Yes we all know how show boating about box sales is great way to promote the MMO in the long run (remember Mark jacobs) /sarcasm.
Rift doesn't even work properly with Xfire but Rift is already at no 6 in total hours (it is about the same as what WAR at release but fell no 10 in subsequent week).
Note: Xfire is good way to judge the total players in comparison with other games but cannot be used to estimate total players.
I don't know if those numbers provided by the OP are accurate or not but I do know this: Trion has had plenty of time to reflect on the numbers that they do have control over, namely digital downloads. But they obviously are nothing worth publishing. And this coming from a company that had no issue with boasting about the 1 million accounts created nor their bold jab at the 800 lb gorilla with their silly tagline.
So now all of a sudden their mouths are sealed and their youthful energies have been squelched by the weight of reality. When do you think they will release their numbers? I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Or maybe they realize that historically, it's been counter-rpoductive for any company to boast box sales as they are always muchhigher than what is retained past the first 30-60 days.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Using Vgchartz...that is hilarious. So numbers that do not include amazon, d2d, gamersgate, steam and probobly big electronic chain stores are accurate...ok have fun with that.
Originally posted by Ramonski7 Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by EndDream
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
I don't see how your response applies to what the discussion. My response applies directly to what you are experiencing now. As I said you are at the crest of the wave along with everyone else. (snips) You say that every MMO that has been released behaves the same, Rift included, but then you ignore the simple and obvious fact that every one of those MMO's had like 10k+ players per server, and that Rift isn't like all those other MMORPG's. Now, does that sound reasonable to you? As far as the sale numbers are concerned I said if Trion had any confidence in them, they'd be released by now. That goes for their digital sales records. As far as the server caps you keep thinking all mmo share, like I said, that is a hype I'm not willing to believe in unless you have server specs from Trion to back it up. Until then all you are doing is regurgitating useless speculations from developer talking points from the past that only served the purpose of inflating their own wishful agendas.
Stop buying into the hype and play if you're going to play. But if you're going to continue trying to hype something like sale numbers despite the fact that the actual company is not, then you're just as bad as the fanboys.
On the one hand you won't accept something because you haven't seen numbers from Trion. Yet you'll accept something from an unverified source, who has not received numbers from Trion.
Even at the low, low population of 2,000 people per server, the VGChartz numbers are off by about 80,000 people. Even at the 1,500 people per server quoted by a dev many, many moons ago (which Trion said was wrong) the numbers are still off.
Nobody, whether they like Rift or not knows how many copies of the game were sold. The only that seems true is that the VGChartz numbers are off.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I don't know if those numbers provided by the OP are accurate or not but I do know this: Trion has had plenty of time to reflect on the numbers that they do have control over, namely digital downloads. But they obviously are nothing worth publishing. And this coming from a company that had no issue with boasting about the 1 million accounts created nor their bold jab at the 800 lb gorilla with their silly tagline.
So now all of a sudden their mouths are sealed and their youthful energies have been squelched by the weight of reality. When do you think they will release their numbers? I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Or maybe they realize that historically, it's been counter-rpoductive for any company to boast box sales as they are always muchhigher than what is retained past the first 30-60 days.
But in didn't stop Trion from realizing the counter-productive practice of boasting about something as trivial as accounts created on their website? I'm not following your excuse for their logic...
Besides. If the number is even 500k for boxes shipped/digital downloads, that in itself is a number worth mentioning. ESPECIALLY if it's only in a week or two. BUt his hasn't happen has it? So my gut tells me that reality has kicked in and Trion is taking a step back and finally realizing that it ain't as easy as Blizzard made it seem.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Isn't it the same with every mmo that has just been released? Well at least it's been like that for all the ones I've played. Right now you're at the crest of the level treadmill. So it's no wonder you see many people around you. And most people tend to overestimate numbers once they get pass seeing 30 to 40 people.
I don't see how your response applies to what the discussion.
My response applies directly to what you are experiencing now. As I said you are at the crest of the wave along with everyone else. (snips)
You say that every MMO that has been released behaves the same, Rift included, but then you ignore the simple and obvious fact that every one of those MMO's had like 10k+ players per server, and that Rift isn't like all those other MMORPG's. Now, does that sound reasonable to you?
As far as the sale numbers are concerned I said if Trion had any confidence in them, they'd be released by now. That goes for their digital sales records. As far as the server caps you keep thinking all mmo share, like I said, that is a hype I'm not willing to believe in unless you have server specs from Trion to back it up. Until then all you are doing is regurgitating useless speculations from developer talking points from the past that only served the purpose of inflating their own wishful agendas.
Stop buying into the hype and play if you're going to play. But if you're going to continue trying to hype something like sale numbers despite the fact that the actual company is not, then you're just as bad as the fanboys.
On the one hand you won't accept something because you haven't seen numbers from Trion. Yet you'll accept something from an unverified source, who has not received numbers from Trion.
Even at the low, low population of 2,000 people per server, the VGChartz numbers are off by about 80,000 people. Even at the 1,500 people per server quoted by a dev many, many moons ago (which Trion said was wrong) the numbers are still off.
Nobody, whether they like Rift or not knows how many copies of the game were sold. The only that seems true is that the VGChartz numbers are off.
Never said I accepted anything the OP linked. My issue stems from the baseless claims that 500k was a reasonable sales number when Trion itself doesn't seem to think so. Well at least not enough to acknowledge it.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Until then all you are doing is regurgitating useless speculations from developer talking points from the past that only served the purpose of inflating their own wishful agendas.
Stop buying into the hype and play if you're going to play. But if you're going to continue trying to hype something like sale numbers despite the fact that the actual company is not, then you're just as bad as the fanboys.
Of course it's speculation. But mine is based upon actual known figures from MMO's and MMO servers, and yours is based upon a suspicion.
I'm not buying into any hype: I'm interested in GW2, SWTOR and TSW, nothing bad said about Rift, it's a good MMO but not for me.
I'm just applying - or trying to - sane logic and sound reason to a debate that seems to be highly polarized with people who dislike Rift want to disbelieve any news of Rift having high subs or sales and ignoring everything we know of MMO's so far.
If you want to ignore that, then you're just as bad as the haters.
Oh, and for the record: Rift uses the same engine as WAR and DAoC or at least an upgraded version of it, and WAR had 700k-1 million sales with 113 servers.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Really? Who cares what VG estimates? Since they admit outright they cannot track digital sales, their numbers are useless. Wait the two weeks or so for Trion to release their own numbers - at the same point every single other company does - one month in.
I don't know if those numbers provided by the OP are accurate or not but I do know this: Trion has had plenty of time to reflect on the numbers that they do have control over, namely digital downloads. But they obviously are nothing worth publishing. And this coming from a company that had no issue with boasting about the 1 million accounts created nor their bold jab at the 800 lb gorilla with their silly tagline.
So now all of a sudden their mouths are sealed and their youthful energies have been squelched by the weight of reality. When do you think they will release their numbers? I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Or maybe they realize that historically, it's been counter-rpoductive for any company to boast box sales as they are always muchhigher than what is retained past the first 30-60 days.
But in didn't stop Trion from realizing the counter-productive practice of boasting about something as trivial as accounts created on their website? I'm not following your excuse for their logic...
Besides. If the number is even 500k for boxes shipped/digital downloads, that in itself is a number worth mentioning. ESPECIALLY if it's down in a week or two. BUt his hasn't happen has it? So my gut tells me that reality has kicked in and Trion is taking a step back and finally realizing that it ain't as easy as Blizzard made it seem.
What do they get from boasting about it? as i said before it is counter productive and they are not a public company like NCSoft or Activision Blizzard (blizzard rarely released sales figures when they were independent and part of Vivendi) which have mandate to release the figures for share holders.
Anyway as i pointed before the trackers (Xfire) are showing that Rift has same population as Warhammer did at release (which indicate a sale of 750k)
Until then all you are doing is regurgitating useless speculations from developer talking points from the past that only served the purpose of inflating their own wishful agendas.
Stop buying into the hype and play if you're going to play. But if you're going to continue trying to hype something like sale numbers despite the fact that the actual company is not, then you're just as bad as the fanboys.
Of course it's speculation. But mine is based upon actual known figures from MMO's and MMO servers, and yours is based upon a suspicion.
I'm not buying into any hype: I'm interested in GW2, SWTOR and TSW, nothing bad said about Rift, it's a good MMO but not for me.
I'm just applying - or trying to - sane logic and sound reason to a debate that seems to be highly polarized with people who dislike Rift want to disbelieve any news of Rift having high subs or sales and ignoring everything we know of MMO's so far.
If you want to ignore that, then you're just as bad as the haters.
So basically you information is based on what other developers have been capable of doing and not what Trion has done? I'm not understanding the logic in that, unless you are ready to accept that Trion is equally capable of failing where other mmo devs have succeeded.
If that's the case then I will happily keep my suspicions to myself (as they only effect me) rather than spreading your illogical speculation (they could just as easily NOT follow the norm of server limits/structure)
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I don't know a single person in my guild or on my friend's list who bought a box. I know some still like them, but for me, in a small town in the middle of no where, but with a nice 20 meg internet connection, I *only* buy boxes when I cannot find it digitally.
Box sales, imho, are becoming a meaningless figure.
I don't know if those numbers provided by the OP are accurate or not but I do know this: Trion has had plenty of time to reflect on the numbers that they do have control over, namely digital downloads. But they obviously are nothing worth publishing. And this coming from a company that had no issue with boasting about the 1 million accounts created nor their bold jab at the 800 lb gorilla with their silly tagline.
So now all of a sudden their mouths are sealed and their youthful energies have been squelched by the weight of reality. When do you think they will release their numbers? I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Or maybe they realize that historically, it's been counter-rpoductive for any company to boast box sales as they are always muchhigher than what is retained past the first 30-60 days.
But in didn't stop Trion from realizing the counter-productive practice of boasting about something as trivial as accounts created on their website? I'm not following your excuse for their logic...
Besides. If the number is even 500k for boxes shipped/digital downloads, that in itself is a number worth mentioning. ESPECIALLY if it's down in a week or two. BUt his hasn't happen has it? So my gut tells me that reality has kicked in and Trion is taking a step back and finally realizing that it ain't as easy as Blizzard made it seem.
What do they get from boasting about it? as i said before it is counter productive and they are not a public company like NCSoft or Activision Blizzard (blizzard rarely released sales figures when they were independent and part of Vivendi) which have mandate to release the figures for share holders.
Anyway as i pointed before the trackers (Xfire) are showing that Rift has same population as Warhammer did at release (which indicate a sale of 750k)
I don't know a single person in my guild or on my friend's list who bought a box. I know some still like them, but for me, in a small town in the middle of no where, but with a nice 20 meg internet connection, I *only* buy boxes when I cannot find it digitally.
Box sales, imho, are becoming a meaningless figure.
Well I always try to buy the box=p I like to have it on my shelf. Its not always possible though like in the case of Fallen Earth or Xsyon.
I don't know a single person in my guild or on my friend's list who bought a box. I know some still like them, but for me, in a small town in the middle of no where, but with a nice 20 meg internet connection, I *only* buy boxes when I cannot find it digitally.
Box sales, imho, are becoming a meaningless figure.
Even more reason for Trion to just come out with a sales number then. Since they are the people that are holding all the cards. But like I said. They are seeing the numbers first hand and they are thinking 2 things:
Damn it's not what we expected so let's wait a while
Damn only 500k? Let's what until we get to a million
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
So basically you information is based on what other developers have been capable of doing and not what Trion has done? I'm not understanding the logic in that, unless you are ready to accept that Trion is equally capable of failing where other mmo devs have succeeded.
If that's the case then I will happily keep my suspicions to myself (as they only effect me) rather than spreading your illogical speculation (they could just as easily NOT follow the norm of server limits/structure)
Christ. Yes, there's similarities in server architecture especially when you notice that the figures of most MMORPG's and MMO servers fall within the same range, as well as the relation between launch sales, player population and number of servers.
It's like saying, 'since almost every MMORPG has shown a decline in players after the free month and show quite a lower number of subs after 3 months, it's safe to say that Rift will experience that same drop off and decline as well, although uncertain will be how much that decline will be'.
Which is a safe and sound assumption to make, even if it's a speculation.
Same with saying 'since all the AAA MMORPG's have shown player/account numbers of 7k-20k per server in their launch months, it's safe to say that Rift won't be different in that category and also have sales/sub numbers that fall within that range'.
Now, you're telling me the 1st assumption is reasonable and this second one is not?
Yes, I know it's all speculation but I'm betting that I'm closer to reality than you with your guessing.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
According to the site that was linked from the OP cataclysm sold 2,253,254 copies worldwide in the first week WHEN cataclysm sold 3.3M copies worldwide in 24h, from many other sources.
Sry Werthe , it seems the site you linked pull alitle information from there dark end , even if its a very popular site,
So basically you information is based on what other developers have been capable of doing and not what Trion has done? I'm not understanding the logic in that, unless you are ready to accept that Trion is equally capable of failing where other mmo devs have succeeded.
If that's the case then I will happily keep my suspicions to myself (as they only effect me) rather than spreading your illogical speculation (they could just as easily NOT follow the norm of server limits/structure)
Christ. Yes, there's similarities in server architecture especially when you notice that the figures of most MMORPG's and MMO servers fall within the same range, as well as the relation between launch sales, player population and number of servers.
It's like saying, 'since almost every MMORPG has shown a decline in players after the free month and show quite a lower number of subs after 3 months, it's safe to say that Rift will experience that same drop off and decline as well, although uncertain will be how much that decline will be'.
Which is a safe and sound assumption to make, even if it's a speculation.
Same with saying 'since all the AAA MMORPG's have shown player/account numbers of 7k-20k per server in their launch months, it's safe to say that Rift won't be different in that category and also have sales/sub numbers that fall within that range'.
Now, you're telling me the 1st assumption is reasonable and this second one is not?
Yes, I know it's all speculation but I'm betting that I'm closer to reality than you with your guessing.
Let's wait and see.
Only thing I'm guessing about is that I don't know anything about Trion until Trion releases it. What you are speculating is that they are just as good as those that came before them, before they have proven that fact. So it's seems to be that you're gving them the benefit of the doubt, while I'm asking them to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. So I guess we agree to see thing differently.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I don't know if those numbers provided by the OP are accurate or not but I do know this: Trion has had plenty of time to reflect on the numbers that they do have control over, namely digital downloads. But they obviously are nothing worth publishing. And this coming from a company that had no issue with boasting about the 1 million accounts created nor their bold jab at the 800 lb gorilla with their silly tagline.
So now all of a sudden their mouths are sealed and their youthful energies have been squelched by the weight of reality. When do you think they will release their numbers? I say if they haven't now they never will. Oh and stop buying into the server queue hype. All it is, is a ploy of devs to artificially create the sense of packed servers in order to build hype. Every mmo after Blizzard has been doing it (And Blizzard even did it for Cata's launch). But keep believing the server limit/queue hoax.
Or maybe they realize that historically, it's been counter-rpoductive for any company to boast box sales as they are always muchhigher than what is retained past the first 30-60 days.
But in didn't stop Trion from realizing the counter-productive practice of boasting about something as trivial as accounts created on their website? I'm not following your excuse for their logic...
Becuse that is a number that
1) the target audience (PR wires, mainstream media) of those reports evidently falls for, since they consistently report it
and
2) can only go up.
MMO gamers don't fall for that, and they want to know relevant numbers. Gamers and developers alike both know that box sales are always much higher than the number of players playing a game 30-60 days later. With a standalone PC game, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if everyone wipes their ass with it and throws it out a week after they bought it - or does the equivalent and trades it to gamestop for 9 dollars credit. The sale is done, money has been made and no one, not media and not player, cares about it a month after release.
However, with MMOs, that same pattern makes for some horrible looking numbers when 500k copies of something are sold and 30-60 days later only half the people are playing it. MMO gamers go zoo when they see what's an othewise normal behavioural pattern. Hell, for many it's their own behavioural pattern and they are too dense to realize it or acknowledge it. It's a lot easier and a lot more fun to be the first person to post 'fail' on their favorite message board than actually look at something logically.
Anyway, we've pretty much established that you don't work in marketing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
I dunno. It seems like common sense to figure out those numbers don't add up.
If Rift had 1 million + subs, I'm sure they would scream that out. But as low as the OP said, well, that just looks very, very silly. I don't see why you'd coming running to the forum screaming this out.
That being said, this game COULD have the basis for a much bigger gain. Let's say 750k subs. If it holds 600k subs at the end of the month, you could see that number begin to grow over the next months. You could see them break 1 million. As more people play it, the more that will play it.
Good luck to it! A bunch of my friends are enjoying it. I'd rather play something else.
So, if this site is basing it's numbers on Box sales... lol Sounds like digital sales could easily be 10 times what the box sales were
My response applies directly to what you are experiencing now. As I said you are at the crest of the wave along with everyone else. It's like running in a marathon. In the begining everyone is like running together, so you see a lot of ppl around you. From zone to zone you are all leveling at about the same pace so with each new zone you enter you have your frontrunners, the pack you're running with and the slowpokes. So when the front runners are about to switch zones (ahead of you), you have your slowpokes just entering the area you've been in. It seems like a ton of people are around, but it's just population migration.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
You say that every MMO that has been released behaves the same, Rift included, but then you ignore the simple and obvious fact that every one of those MMO's had like 10k+ players per server, and that Rift isn't like all those other MMORPG's. Now, does that sound reasonable to you?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you insist.
As i posted a earliar current estimates are 750k box sales, it is currently the no 2 MMO in NA/Europe based on player population. Xfire and other tracker back the latter statement.
As far as the sale numbers are concerned I said if Trion had any confidence in them, they'd be released by now. That goes for their digital sales records. As far as the server caps you keep thinking all mmo share, like I said, that is a hype I'm not willing to believe in unless you have server specs from Trion to back it up. Until then all you are doing is regurgitating useless speculations from developer talking points from the past that only served the purpose of inflating their own wishful agendas.
Stop buying into the hype and play if you're going to play. But if you're going to continue trying to hype something like sale numbers despite the fact that the actual company is not, then you're just as bad as the fanboys.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Yes we all know how show boating about box sales is great way to promote the MMO in the long run (remember Mark jacobs) /sarcasm.
Rift doesn't even work properly with Xfire but Rift is already at no 6 in total hours (it is about the same as what WAR at release but fell no 10 in subsequent week).
Note: Xfire is good way to judge the total players in comparison with other games but cannot be used to estimate total players.
Or maybe they realize that historically, it's been counter-rpoductive for any company to boast box sales as they are always muchhigher than what is retained past the first 30-60 days.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Using Vgchartz...that is hilarious. So numbers that do not include amazon, d2d, gamersgate, steam and probobly big electronic chain stores are accurate...ok have fun with that.
My response applies directly to what you are experiencing now. As I said you are at the crest of the wave along with everyone else. (snips)
You say that every MMO that has been released behaves the same, Rift included, but then you ignore the simple and obvious fact that every one of those MMO's had like 10k+ players per server, and that Rift isn't like all those other MMORPG's. Now, does that sound reasonable to you?
As far as the sale numbers are concerned I said if Trion had any confidence in them, they'd be released by now. That goes for their digital sales records. As far as the server caps you keep thinking all mmo share, like I said, that is a hype I'm not willing to believe in unless you have server specs from Trion to back it up. Until then all you are doing is regurgitating useless speculations from developer talking points from the past that only served the purpose of inflating their own wishful agendas.
Stop buying into the hype and play if you're going to play. But if you're going to continue trying to hype something like sale numbers despite the fact that the actual company is not, then you're just as bad as the fanboys.
On the one hand you won't accept something because you haven't seen numbers from Trion. Yet you'll accept something from an unverified source, who has not received numbers from Trion.
Even at the low, low population of 2,000 people per server, the VGChartz numbers are off by about 80,000 people. Even at the 1,500 people per server quoted by a dev many, many moons ago (which Trion said was wrong) the numbers are still off.
Nobody, whether they like Rift or not knows how many copies of the game were sold. The only that seems true is that the VGChartz numbers are off.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
But in didn't stop Trion from realizing the counter-productive practice of boasting about something as trivial as accounts created on their website? I'm not following your excuse for their logic...
Besides. If the number is even 500k for boxes shipped/digital downloads, that in itself is a number worth mentioning. ESPECIALLY if it's only in a week or two. BUt his hasn't happen has it? So my gut tells me that reality has kicked in and Trion is taking a step back and finally realizing that it ain't as easy as Blizzard made it seem.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Never said I accepted anything the OP linked. My issue stems from the baseless claims that 500k was a reasonable sales number when Trion itself doesn't seem to think so. Well at least not enough to acknowledge it.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Of course it's speculation. But mine is based upon actual known figures from MMO's and MMO servers, and yours is based upon a suspicion.
I'm not buying into any hype: I'm interested in GW2, SWTOR and TSW, nothing bad said about Rift, it's a good MMO but not for me.
I'm just applying - or trying to - sane logic and sound reason to a debate that seems to be highly polarized with people who dislike Rift want to disbelieve any news of Rift having high subs or sales and ignoring everything we know of MMO's so far.
If you want to ignore that, then you're just as bad as the haters.
Oh, and for the record: Rift uses the same engine as WAR and DAoC or at least an upgraded version of it, and WAR had 700k-1 million sales with 113 servers.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Really? Who cares what VG estimates? Since they admit outright they cannot track digital sales, their numbers are useless. Wait the two weeks or so for Trion to release their own numbers - at the same point every single other company does - one month in.
Confidence indeed - what a load of hooey!
What do they get from boasting about it? as i said before it is counter productive and they are not a public company like NCSoft or Activision Blizzard (blizzard rarely released sales figures when they were independent and part of Vivendi) which have mandate to release the figures for share holders.
Anyway as i pointed before the trackers (Xfire) are showing that Rift has same population as Warhammer did at release (which indicate a sale of 750k)
http://www.xfire.com/games/rft/RIFT/
So basically you information is based on what other developers have been capable of doing and not what Trion has done? I'm not understanding the logic in that, unless you are ready to accept that Trion is equally capable of failing where other mmo devs have succeeded.
If that's the case then I will happily keep my suspicions to myself (as they only effect me) rather than spreading your illogical speculation (they could just as easily NOT follow the norm of server limits/structure)
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Who the hell buys boxes now anyway? lol
I don't know a single person in my guild or on my friend's list who bought a box. I know some still like them, but for me, in a small town in the middle of no where, but with a nice 20 meg internet connection, I *only* buy boxes when I cannot find it digitally.
Box sales, imho, are becoming a meaningless figure.
They get free advertisement from people like you, that seem to love playing with numbers and are easily impressed with them.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Well I always try to buy the box=p I like to have it on my shelf. Its not always possible though like in the case of Fallen Earth or Xsyon.
Even more reason for Trion to just come out with a sales number then. Since they are the people that are holding all the cards. But like I said. They are seeing the numbers first hand and they are thinking 2 things:
Damn it's not what we expected so let's wait a while
Damn only 500k? Let's what until we get to a million
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Christ. Yes, there's similarities in server architecture especially when you notice that the figures of most MMORPG's and MMO servers fall within the same range, as well as the relation between launch sales, player population and number of servers.
It's like saying, 'since almost every MMORPG has shown a decline in players after the free month and show quite a lower number of subs after 3 months, it's safe to say that Rift will experience that same drop off and decline as well, although uncertain will be how much that decline will be'.
Which is a safe and sound assumption to make, even if it's a speculation.
Same with saying 'since all the AAA MMORPG's have shown player/account numbers of 7k-20k per server in their launch months, it's safe to say that Rift won't be different in that category and also have sales/sub numbers that fall within that range'.
Now, you're telling me the 1st assumption is reasonable and this second one is not?
Yes, I know it's all speculation but I'm betting that I'm closer to reality than you with your guessing.
Let's wait and see.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ok first I dont play Rift or wow but..
According to the site that was linked from the OP cataclysm sold 2,253,254 copies worldwide in the first week WHEN cataclysm sold 3.3M copies worldwide in 24h, from many other sources.
Sry Werthe , it seems the site you linked pull alitle information from there dark end , even if its a very popular site,
Only thing I'm guessing about is that I don't know anything about Trion until Trion releases it. What you are speculating is that they are just as good as those that came before them, before they have proven that fact. So it's seems to be that you're gving them the benefit of the doubt, while I'm asking them to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. So I guess we agree to see thing differently.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Becuse that is a number that
1) the target audience (PR wires, mainstream media) of those reports evidently falls for, since they consistently report it
and
2) can only go up.
MMO gamers don't fall for that, and they want to know relevant numbers. Gamers and developers alike both know that box sales are always much higher than the number of players playing a game 30-60 days later. With a standalone PC game, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if everyone wipes their ass with it and throws it out a week after they bought it - or does the equivalent and trades it to gamestop for 9 dollars credit. The sale is done, money has been made and no one, not media and not player, cares about it a month after release.
However, with MMOs, that same pattern makes for some horrible looking numbers when 500k copies of something are sold and 30-60 days later only half the people are playing it. MMO gamers go zoo when they see what's an othewise normal behavioural pattern. Hell, for many it's their own behavioural pattern and they are too dense to realize it or acknowledge it. It's a lot easier and a lot more fun to be the first person to post 'fail' on their favorite message board than actually look at something logically.
Anyway, we've pretty much established that you don't work in marketing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre