GW2 isn't doing anything "new" if by "new" you mean "never seen before, ever, in any context." Most people have a saner definition of "new," however (think biological evolution where all novel features are ultimately just extensions of already existing parts).
I'm also curious about your apparent liking of TOR. What part of the combat/class system/questing system is so incredibly, completely new (not just "the same as other MMO's but expanded upon") in TOR that makes it immune to the same criticisms? I fail to see how you can possibly view GW2's combat and dynamic event's system as "same old, same old" and yet have no problem with TOR's combat, quest and class systems, all of which are much closer to your typical MMO like WoW than GW2.
This is two screenshots taken from the video links you provided.
I don't get your point.
Combat:
Being able to dodge an arrow or strike from an enemy in an open world is quite revolutionary to me (Guild Wars doesn't usually count since it is mostly instanced when it comes to combat). It makes the combat much more interactive, placement of your character actually means something, not completely dependant on a dice roll or some percentage. Nothing looks worse in combat than having an arrow do a 180 turn and hit you in the back.
Teleportation:
This one is a 50/50, it isn't perfect, and certainly immersion breaking for some, but no one is forcing you to use this feature, you can still walk to wherever you want. The problem I see is that, some noob will tele away whenever situation gets dire, or near a wipe, ditch the group and just save themselves. Or in the PvP respect, tele away when you are near death, but we don't know how exactly the teleportation is gonna work, it might have cooldown, restrictions, maybe only outside of combat, etc, etc
VO:
This is very subjective, I personally love that my character will have a voice, but I guess sometimes those lines can get a little bit cheesy.
Dynamic Events:
The concept might have been done before, but the implementation is revolutionary. Dynamic Events basically takes over the traditional quest system featured in the all previous mmo, (yes including the newcomer Rift) The world is continue to move forward even if you stop playing, events will happen in the world even if no one does anything. The idea of dynamic is revolutionary, not the feature itself.
There will be story instances where you personal story will be told, but this will only concerns your personal character.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I'm still reading this thread trying to figure out just exactly how someone can proclaim a game a "huge disappointment" when it hasn't been released yet. I mean....WTF? How can any single person with half a brain take that seriously?
GW2 isn't doing anything "new" if by "new" you mean "never seen before, ever, in any context." Most people have a saner definition of "new," however (think biological evolution where all novel features are ultimately just extensions of already existing parts).
I'm also curious about your apparent liking of TOR. What part of the combat/class system/questing system is so incredibly, completely new (not just "the same as other MMO's but expanded upon") in TOR that makes it immune to the same criticisms? I fail to see how you can possibly view GW2's combat and dynamic event's system as "same old, same old" and yet have no problem with TOR's combat, quest and class systems, all of which are much closer to your typical MMO like WoW than GW2.
I believe I only mentioned TOR once and that was in relation to it's great terrain draw distance, I haven't mentioned TOR any other time. There is nothing in TOR that is completely new, just expanded upon like with GW2. I will say though that some of the things I'm criticizing GW2 for, TOR is doing those things right.
This is two screenshots taken from the video links you provided.
The screenshots you provided are misleading. The distance is much greater in TOR, if you watch side by side videos of GW and TOR, you can tell that TOR's is much farther.
Combat:
Being able to dodge an arrow or strike from an enemy in an open world is quite revolutionary to me (Guild Wars doesn't usually count since it is mostly instanced when it comes to combat). It makes the combat much more interactive, placement of your character actually means something, not completely dependant on a dice roll or some percentage. Nothing looks worse in combat than having an arrow do a 180 turn and hit you in the back.
Basically all GW2 has done is implement a dodge ability and some combo abilities, this is not revolutionary, just slightly evolutionary. Most of it is just the same old same old. Take a look at TERA's combat, it far surpasses GW2's in terms of interactive combat and will probably be out sooner than GW2. Hell I prefer Magicka's combat system, granted it's not an MMO, but RPG like game.
This is two screenshots taken from the video links you provided.
The screenshots you provided are misleading. The distance is much greater in TOR, if you watch side by side videos of GW and TOR, you can tell that TOR's is much farther.
The GW2 screenshot is in player perspective. The TOR screenshot is not in player perspective.
From what I have seen of the 2 games on this I think I will stick with GW2. I already posted a video earlier in this thread pointing out that at the half-minute mark you can see some mobs that have quite a large distance between them and the player.
I just wanted to remind you again that this is the only site on the earth that gives a damn about GW2, so the 200 or so people who post on these forums should continue to discuss the merits of a game which is not yet out, and then defend how good it is or bad based on their time traveling ability.
I'm still reading this thread trying to figure out just exactly how someone can proclaim a game a "huge disappointment" when it hasn't been released yet. I mean....WTF? How can any single person with half a brain take that seriously?
Well that depends, I mean there are some games that are currently in development and not released that I can say are s "huge dissapointment" for me personally just based on the basic features of the game. SWTOR is for me a "huge disappointment", but that is for me and I have no illusion that my disappointment is shared by many, or that SWTOR will be a "disappointment" in a success sense.
I guess it all comes down to expectations, we all have them and sometimes projects that haven't been released simply don't meet them. GW2 is not a disappintment to me, but there again I don't have huge expecations for it either.
I just wanted to remind you again that this is the only site on the earth that gives a damn about GW2, so the 200 or so people who post on these forums should continue to discuss the merits of a game which is not yet out, and then defend how good it is or bad based on their time traveling ability.
Too early to tell based on promo vids. Might suck, might own. However, comparing the gfx to SWTOR is ridiculous, GW2 clearly wins imo. Bioware cannot into area design.
I just wanted to remind you again that this is the only site on the earth that gives a damn about GW2, so the 200 or so people who post on these forums should continue to discuss the merits of a game which is not yet out, and then defend how good it is or bad based on their time traveling ability.
For some reason I have a hard time believeing this is the only site that cares about GW2. If this you want me to post more links I can.
PCGameplay had GW2 at the top of their list of the 25 most anticipated games which they published two months ago. There is no site devoted to gaming out there without GW2 fans, and honestly there are quite some GW2 fans on the SW:ToR forums, while there are close to none on the GW2Guru forums.
What don't you understand that GW2's events are just PQ events but that they chain..... is it really that hard to understand.... calling GW2's events "dynamic events" seems to be confusing you, they really should be called "chaining events".
GW2 basically devolves into running around looking for mobs to fight to level... the ultimate grind.
I think you misunderstand a lot...
First off, when people say it's new, it's more about being fresh.
Here's a quick summary...
In WoW, Rift, Aion, LoTRO, WAR, and pretty much any big MMO, you play like this...
1. Talk to nearest guy with marking over his head. YOU HAVE TO...
2. He sends you to kill 10 of whatever. And then when you return, he sends you to kill 10 of something stronger.
3. You pretty much have to repeat this step for the first few levels. Around level 10 or so, you run a dungeon.
4. Then you do more of steps 1-3 until you hit 20. Then run a dungeon.
This is literally repeated for the entire game, including WAR.
Yes, there are variations, but they all follow the same steps.
Now GW2 does have similarities... but not a lot. In fact, the only similarity in gameplay is that you have to kill.
There are no killing 10 things, only to kill 10 more stronger things, just to kill 10 strongest things. But beyond that, there is the personal story, and neither of the above game has a "real" story.
And to your main concern. GW2 dynamic events are called so because they scale dynamically. They can be played by 4 people or 14 people. It will still be a challenge.
And seriously, saying GW2 is like other MMO's... come one. I'll list some features that 90% of other MMO's have that GW2 doesn't.
Quests. Skill trees. Mounts. A bar of 20 skills. A second bar of 20 skills. Even a third bar of 20 skills. Dice-based combat. Holy trinity. Gear Grind. Lots of reading. Ganking. Kill stealing. Monthly fee.
I gurantee, for every game you list that DOESN'T have those features, I can list many more that DO have them.
And these are factual comparions. General comparisons too, nothing related to lore or setting. SIMPLE FUNCTIONING FEATURES. I could have listed more things like... Cumbersome interface. Static combat. But these are more opinions.
Seriously, other than the fact that you have to kill to progress, what else does GW2 have in common with WoW, LoTRO, Aion, Rift, or any other top MMO. And don't list bullshit like - swords, magic, armor, human race, trees...
Combat isn't the same, this is a fact because most other MMO's run on dice rolls. GW2 combat runs on havok physics, timing, and aim. If a fireball hits your character model, there is no dice roll to see if you take damage. You either get hit and take damage, or move away and dodge it. You notice how most skills in most MMO's simply affect the dice roll? Gives you a slightly higher chance to evade. And then when it triggers, all you see is the word "evaded" pop up. While your character is just like "WTF, I have been doiing the same motion since we entered combat..."
Dynamic events are not just chained PQ. PQ's could not interact with each other the same way GW2 DE can. Dynamic events are much more player driven. Rifts and PQ's are not, they are both timed and server-based. Villages stay invaded until players take it back. Period. Rifts will reset in a given amount of time if no one participates.
Now I could go on and on, but my point is... GW2 may not be the second coming, but sure as hell ain't another MMO.
Wait, are you saying GW2 combat is completely reflex based? I haven't looked into the mechanics much, but that would kinda suck. Not looking forward to playing an action game.
Things like teleportation, those "artistic" dialogue cutscenes and the chance that there wont be any mounts in the game (because of teleporation) almost killed my interest in GW2.
Teleportation neutralises the feeling that we are in a large gameworld and nobody will travel anymore. The Asura gates are cool but teleport to waypoints?? common Anet do something... add mounts instead.
The second thing that bothers me are the cutscenes. Players want to look at their character and the UI at all times and not at some crappy dialog scenes because THIS IS NOT A SINGLEPLAYER BIOWARE RPG, THIS IS AN MMORPG AND THERE IS NO PLACE FOR CUTSCENES IN AN MMO!
I realise that the game isn't out yet and that things may change. That is why I'm still following it though...
Things like teleportation, those "artistic" dialogue cutscenes and the chance that there wont be any mounts in the game (because of teleporation) almost killed my interest in GW2.
Teleportation neutralises the feeling that we are in a large gameworld and nobody will travel anymore. The Asura gates are cool but teleport to waypoints?? common Anet do something... add mounts instead.
The second thing that bothers me are the cutscenes. Players want to look at their character and the UI at all times and not at some crappy dialog scenes because THIS IS NOT A SINGLEPLAYER BIOWARE RPG, THIS IS AN MMORPG AND THERE IS NO PLACE FOR CUTSCENES IN AN MMO!
I realise that the game isn't out yet and that things may change. That is why I'm still following it though...
Your concerns about the teleportation and no mounts are valid but are you really that concerned with the cutscenes being in the game?
The cutscenes are for your Personal Story ONLY!!! You do not have to do your personal story if you don't want to.
These are your options if you don't want to do your personal story:
World V World PvP
World vs World, WvW, World PvP or Casual PvP, is a mode of Player versus Player combat which takes place in the Mists. Worlds, or servers, are randomly matched up against two other worlds. Those match-ups will be rotated every week to match worlds against those of similar strength. The combat is open and features many objectives and roles which players can do; "players may decide to fight alone against a supply caravan, join a single group and capture a mine or create a large alliance to assault one of the numerous fortress that could give an advantage in the zone." The battle is on a large scale, where hundreds of people can fight on each side in week-long battles.
Each opposing world starts out with castles, mercenary camps, mines, lumber mills and villages. Separating the starting zones are neutral zones controlled by no one, also containing fortresses, mines, and villages.
The resources gained from mines and lumber mills are used to rebuild walls, create siege engines, and generally defend the team's fortress.
These territories and control points will confer benefits to the world that controls them; "maybe everyone gets increased energy regeneration or healing rate or enhanced loot drop rate." Players can gain experience and level their character in World PvP. Guilds will be able to take and hold keeps.
Players are free to come and go from the battle as they please and there is no limit to the number of players entering. Players enter with a character of any level and use skills they have available to that character. Characters can enter as a sidekick which will allow them to play as a higher level character.
World PvP is intended as a casual form of PvP, designed to be a more relaxed bridging point between PvE and the tactics and pressure of structured PvP. It is hoped that players of any level or PvP experience can participate and be useful.
There will be no NPC's with exclamation marks above their heads, quests have been replaced with a dynamic events system. Instead of picking up a traditional quest players will need to pay attention to their environment, visual clues such as the appearance of invading hordes or an NPC running out to call for help as well as more subtle clues such as changes to the environment will be the entry points for players to join in these events. Events are set to scale depending on player numbers, player level will not bar successful and meaningful involvement in these events, a higher level player can join lower level events and will find their skill level adjusted so that, while still being a little over powered for the event, they shouldn't be able to steam roll the event.
Events are dynamic and one event will effect other events further down the line, players always have the choice as to their level of involvement and which events to get involved in. NPC's will remember when a player has helped them out in the past and react differently after the event.
Players do not need to party to gain rewards from participating in an event, all players who participate will receive a reward, the majority of these rewards will consist of Karma and Gold, the player is then free to choose what items to spend it on.
It has been stated this events system means a player could visit the same area several times and not find the same events happening.
The events system eliminates kill stealing and encourages group play through the scaling dynamic, the more players the more interesting the fight can become.
There is a 'scout' NPC that will be able to tell you of the potential trouble spots in the local area to help you find possible events
Examples:
Centaurs may attack a village, players can help save the village or let it be captured, the centaurs could then set up base and try to expand without further player intervention in to surrounding territory. If the players defended the village there is nothing to say that the centaurs won't keep trying.
A player may return to a previously visited watermelon field to find the crops destroyed, the farmer may be calling for help to fight off an invader, at the same time the player has noticed the watermelons have gone because the field is over run by rabbits, on further investigation traps/cages may be found in that field, the player has the choice of either fending off the invading mob or help capture the rabbits.
MumboJumbo spent some time researching info on events- see this post
Dungeons
Dungeons are designed for five players. Instead of random loot drops players players will be rewarded with tokens to spend on dungeon items. Each dungeon will have the minimum of one armour set for each armour type and a full range of weapons as possible rewards. Initial encounters in dungeons will come from following the story, subsequent entries in to dungeons will be in an 'explorable' mode, players will have the opportunity to take different routes and have different encounters in a more difficult version.
Weaponsmith – Weaponsmiths craft melee weapons, such as swords, axes and hammers.
Huntsman – Huntsmen craft ranged weapons like bows and pistol, as well as torches and warhorns.
Artificer– Artificers craft magical weapons such as staves and scepters.
Armorsmith – Armorsmiths craft heavy armor pieces.
Leatherworker – Leatherworkers craft medium armor pieces.
Tailor – Tailors craft light armor pieces.
Jewelcrafter – Jewelcrafters craft jewelry, such as rings and necklaces.
Cook – Cooks can prepare food which characters can eat for temporary combat buffs.
Players can have two active crafting professions. Professions can be swapped at a cost, when relearning the previous profession you start at the level you left off, the higher the level the higher the cost of switching professions. Recipes can be discovered by putting in the four correct items to create that item in the crafting interface, recipes will also be available as drops. Crafting will take place at a workstation.
Gathering - all players can gather, there are no gathering professions to choose from. Nodes spawn so that each player can gather individually, you don't have to worry about someone stealing the node you are clearing mobs to reach, your quota will still be there.
Each major town will have it's own mini games, these are social activities that aren't dependant on character level, they will vary in their mechanics from complex games of skill, simple target practise, solo games, multiplayer and full on no rules bar brawls. They will carry rewards, for example during the bar brawl you may be rewarded by the local dentist by handing in teeth you've knocked out the mouth of your opponents. It's intended that these are fun past times that can step out side the normal rules of the wider game.
Wait, are you saying GW2 combat is completely reflex based? I haven't looked into the mechanics much, but that would kinda suck. Not looking forward to playing an action game.
Depends on what you mean by reflex. It's not going to require reflexes like an FPS. It's just more interactive.
There is still auto attack. But projectiles must hit a target. So if the target steps out of the way while the projectile is incoming, it will miss. Same with melee.
AoEs and such are ground targeted. To block, you must raise your shield in the form of a skill or something similar. Flames impacting a shield will deflect and fluster around the shield. This is due to the Havok engine. You cannot target your ally when using support skills. You have to find them, and cast accordingly.
I wouldn't call it an action game. You won't be clicking to attack. You'll just have to aim the majority of the skills. You will however, have to keep a keen eye ON the battlefield and OFF your skill bar.
Also, it won't be a dodge-fest. In the current state, dodging drains up a lot of your energy, maybe more than any other skill right now. Dodging leads to exhuastion pretty quickly. I think we have it charted at 10-15 dodges will comsume your energy bar. That along with actually usage of skills... maybe just a handful of dodges before you run dry. Of course there are still skills to help maintain energy.
So GW2 won't be like God of War. But it won't be like WoW. More like... God of WoW.
Originally posted by blackjakk When i first heard about GW2 I felt like "omg!!!" Now I feel like "maybe I try it". Things like teleportation, those "artistic" dialogue cutscenes and the chance that there wont be any mounts in the game (because of teleporation) almost killed my interest in GW2. Teleportation neutralises the feeling that we are in a large gameworld and nobody will travel anymore. The Asura gates are cool but teleport to waypoints?? common Anet do something... add mounts instead. The second thing that bothers me are the cutscenes. Players want to look at their character and the UI at all times and not at some crappy dialog scenes because THIS IS NOT A SINGLEPLAYER BIOWARE RPG, THIS IS AN MMORPG AND THERE IS NO PLACE FOR CUTSCENES IN AN MMO! I realise that the game isn't out yet and that things may change. That is why I'm still following it though...
For the teleportation to waypoints, thats actually covered in the lore as to why you are able to do that in GW2. Its called a Hole-in-my-Pocket and it allows the user to travel to known places.
Since when are cross server battles "open world" fights ?
Participants are collected from different servers and are played seperately from their own realms. They may be big (just how big remain to be seen) , but they are not attached to the "realm" the player is living in.
So explain me the difference between a cross server Battleground and "open world PvP" of GW2 which is played by "teleporting" to a seperate instance on another server?
From what we know of WvWvW is that 3 servers will be pitted up against each other in a week long battle that is done in its own area that consists of at least 4 zones. There will be fortresses and objectives for each server to do. It is also supposed to hold a massive amount of people at once. ArenaNet means by massive that there will be hundreds of people fighting at once.
If you want to think of it as a battleground then by all means go ahead. But you should be thinking along the lines of larger than the largest battleground you have ever seen.
Since when are cross server battles "open world" fights ?
Participants are collected from different servers and are played seperately from their own realms. They may be big (just how big remain to be seen) , but they are not attached to the "realm" the player is living in.
So explain me the difference between a cross server Battleground and "open world PvP" of GW2 which is played by "teleporting" to a seperate instance on another server?
The constant teleporting is used to load up the better graphics in seperate instances in a camouflaged way. See GW1.
The potential is certainly there, we will see how it will be implemented. Many questions to be answered: what is "huge", because those people still play on a seperate instanced server, what is the consequence on the realm servers as people playing in that place aren't playing on their "world", what is the time to preload those data between servers, will there be waiting queus to even out balance, how long will it take to gain victory, is there a logical support and role for the people left behind.
I think the technique in itself is better than single realm MMO's, but the challenge will lay in the implementation, balance and execution which will be no easy feat to accomplish.
But please stop calling it "open world" with all that teleporting. I don't mind the technique, it just needs to be defined in a correct way.
Do teleporting really make a world closed?
But yes, we do need some redefining here. This mists is not a battleground and it isn't open PvP either. Battlegrounds are rather small and have a few objectives, one side will win.
This thing is more complicated and open for a week, and a lot larger.
We do however know very little of the mists yet so we have to wait and see.
Comments
GW2 isn't doing anything "new" if by "new" you mean "never seen before, ever, in any context." Most people have a saner definition of "new," however (think biological evolution where all novel features are ultimately just extensions of already existing parts).
I'm also curious about your apparent liking of TOR. What part of the combat/class system/questing system is so incredibly, completely new (not just "the same as other MMO's but expanded upon") in TOR that makes it immune to the same criticisms? I fail to see how you can possibly view GW2's combat and dynamic event's system as "same old, same old" and yet have no problem with TOR's combat, quest and class systems, all of which are much closer to your typical MMO like WoW than GW2.
Draw Distance:
This is two screenshots taken from the video links you provided.
I don't get your point.
Combat:
Being able to dodge an arrow or strike from an enemy in an open world is quite revolutionary to me (Guild Wars doesn't usually count since it is mostly instanced when it comes to combat). It makes the combat much more interactive, placement of your character actually means something, not completely dependant on a dice roll or some percentage. Nothing looks worse in combat than having an arrow do a 180 turn and hit you in the back.
Teleportation:
This one is a 50/50, it isn't perfect, and certainly immersion breaking for some, but no one is forcing you to use this feature, you can still walk to wherever you want. The problem I see is that, some noob will tele away whenever situation gets dire, or near a wipe, ditch the group and just save themselves. Or in the PvP respect, tele away when you are near death, but we don't know how exactly the teleportation is gonna work, it might have cooldown, restrictions, maybe only outside of combat, etc, etc
VO:
This is very subjective, I personally love that my character will have a voice, but I guess sometimes those lines can get a little bit cheesy.
Dynamic Events:
The concept might have been done before, but the implementation is revolutionary. Dynamic Events basically takes over the traditional quest system featured in the all previous mmo, (yes including the newcomer Rift) The world is continue to move forward even if you stop playing, events will happen in the world even if no one does anything. The idea of dynamic is revolutionary, not the feature itself.
There will be story instances where you personal story will be told, but this will only concerns your personal character.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I'm still reading this thread trying to figure out just exactly how someone can proclaim a game a "huge disappointment" when it hasn't been released yet. I mean....WTF? How can any single person with half a brain take that seriously?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I believe I only mentioned TOR once and that was in relation to it's great terrain draw distance, I haven't mentioned TOR any other time. There is nothing in TOR that is completely new, just expanded upon like with GW2. I will say though that some of the things I'm criticizing GW2 for, TOR is doing those things right.
The GW2 screenshot is in player perspective. The TOR screenshot is not in player perspective.
From what I have seen of the 2 games on this I think I will stick with GW2. I already posted a video earlier in this thread pointing out that at the half-minute mark you can see some mobs that have quite a large distance between them and the player.
How is it possible for it to be a dissapointment? Its not out yet!!! PPL seem to thrive on these kinds of threads.
I self identify as a monkey.
I just wanted to remind you again that this is the only site on the earth that gives a damn about GW2, so the 200 or so people who post on these forums should continue to discuss the merits of a game which is not yet out, and then defend how good it is or bad based on their time traveling ability.
Well that depends, I mean there are some games that are currently in development and not released that I can say are s "huge dissapointment" for me personally just based on the basic features of the game. SWTOR is for me a "huge disappointment", but that is for me and I have no illusion that my disappointment is shared by many, or that SWTOR will be a "disappointment" in a success sense.
I guess it all comes down to expectations, we all have them and sometimes projects that haven't been released simply don't meet them. GW2 is not a disappintment to me, but there again I don't have huge expecations for it either.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/
http://www.killtenrats.com/2011/03/18/gw2-pax-chat-with-jeff-grubb/
http://ca.kotaku.com/5780900/the-guild-wars-2-thief-is-a-rogue-like-none-other
http://guildwars2.mondespersistants.com/le-voleur-en-questions:article-239,2/
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/12/15-things-we-learned-from-last-weeks-guild-wars-2-combat-footage/
http://gamer.connorwoodson.com/2011/03/ramblings-from-meet-greet.html
http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/
http://www.vgrevolution.com/2011/03/guild-wars-2-norn-walkthrough-video/
http://www.gamespot.com/events/paxeast2011/video.html?sid=6303654
http://www.gamespot.com/events/paxeast2011/story.html?sid=6303935&tag=top_stories%3Btitle%3B1
http://www.guildwars2live.com/?ondemand=pla_3a51c406-d914-4947-8d79-6c83e4a67cc6
http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/03/13/breaking-barriers/
http://ie.pc.ign.com/articles/115/1153403p1.html
http://www.tentonhammer.com/gw2/features/pax-east-fan-experience
http://www.co-optimus.com/article/5672/guild-wars-2-pax-east-interview-demo-and-hands-on-impressions.html
http://www.gamerreaction.tv/2011/03/guild-wars-2-an-mmorpg-for-the-ages-pax-east-2011/
For some reason I have a hard time believeing this is the only site that cares about GW2. If this you want me to post more links I can.
Too early to tell based on promo vids. Might suck, might own. However, comparing the gfx to SWTOR is ridiculous, GW2 clearly wins imo. Bioware cannot into area design.
PCGameplay had GW2 at the top of their list of the 25 most anticipated games which they published two months ago. There is no site devoted to gaming out there without GW2 fans, and honestly there are quite some GW2 fans on the SW:ToR forums, while there are close to none on the GW2Guru forums.
I think you misunderstand a lot...
First off, when people say it's new, it's more about being fresh.
Here's a quick summary...
In WoW, Rift, Aion, LoTRO, WAR, and pretty much any big MMO, you play like this...
1. Talk to nearest guy with marking over his head. YOU HAVE TO...
2. He sends you to kill 10 of whatever. And then when you return, he sends you to kill 10 of something stronger.
3. You pretty much have to repeat this step for the first few levels. Around level 10 or so, you run a dungeon.
4. Then you do more of steps 1-3 until you hit 20. Then run a dungeon.
This is literally repeated for the entire game, including WAR.
Yes, there are variations, but they all follow the same steps.
Now GW2 does have similarities... but not a lot. In fact, the only similarity in gameplay is that you have to kill.
There are no killing 10 things, only to kill 10 more stronger things, just to kill 10 strongest things. But beyond that, there is the personal story, and neither of the above game has a "real" story.
And to your main concern. GW2 dynamic events are called so because they scale dynamically. They can be played by 4 people or 14 people. It will still be a challenge.
And seriously, saying GW2 is like other MMO's... come one. I'll list some features that 90% of other MMO's have that GW2 doesn't.
Quests. Skill trees. Mounts. A bar of 20 skills. A second bar of 20 skills. Even a third bar of 20 skills. Dice-based combat. Holy trinity. Gear Grind. Lots of reading. Ganking. Kill stealing. Monthly fee.
I gurantee, for every game you list that DOESN'T have those features, I can list many more that DO have them.
And these are factual comparions. General comparisons too, nothing related to lore or setting. SIMPLE FUNCTIONING FEATURES. I could have listed more things like... Cumbersome interface. Static combat. But these are more opinions.
Seriously, other than the fact that you have to kill to progress, what else does GW2 have in common with WoW, LoTRO, Aion, Rift, or any other top MMO. And don't list bullshit like - swords, magic, armor, human race, trees...
Combat isn't the same, this is a fact because most other MMO's run on dice rolls. GW2 combat runs on havok physics, timing, and aim. If a fireball hits your character model, there is no dice roll to see if you take damage. You either get hit and take damage, or move away and dodge it. You notice how most skills in most MMO's simply affect the dice roll? Gives you a slightly higher chance to evade. And then when it triggers, all you see is the word "evaded" pop up. While your character is just like "WTF, I have been doiing the same motion since we entered combat..."
Dynamic events are not just chained PQ. PQ's could not interact with each other the same way GW2 DE can. Dynamic events are much more player driven. Rifts and PQ's are not, they are both timed and server-based. Villages stay invaded until players take it back. Period. Rifts will reset in a given amount of time if no one participates.
Now I could go on and on, but my point is... GW2 may not be the second coming, but sure as hell ain't another MMO.
Wait, are you saying GW2 combat is completely reflex based? I haven't looked into the mechanics much, but that would kinda suck. Not looking forward to playing an action game.
When i first heard about GW2 I felt like "omg!!!"
Now I feel like "maybe I try it".
Things like teleportation, those "artistic" dialogue cutscenes and the chance that there wont be any mounts in the game (because of teleporation) almost killed my interest in GW2.
Teleportation neutralises the feeling that we are in a large gameworld and nobody will travel anymore. The Asura gates are cool but teleport to waypoints?? common Anet do something... add mounts instead.
The second thing that bothers me are the cutscenes. Players want to look at their character and the UI at all times and not at some crappy dialog scenes because THIS IS NOT A SINGLEPLAYER BIOWARE RPG, THIS IS AN MMORPG AND THERE IS NO PLACE FOR CUTSCENES IN AN MMO!
I realise that the game isn't out yet and that things may change. That is why I'm still following it though...
Fight fire with Frost!
Your concerns about the teleportation and no mounts are valid but are you really that concerned with the cutscenes being in the game?
The cutscenes are for your Personal Story ONLY!!! You do not have to do your personal story if you don't want to.
These are your options if you don't want to do your personal story:
World V World PvP
World vs World, WvW, World PvP or Casual PvP, is a mode of Player versus Player combat which takes place in the Mists. Worlds, or servers, are randomly matched up against two other worlds. Those match-ups will be rotated every week to match worlds against those of similar strength. The combat is open and features many objectives and roles which players can do; "players may decide to fight alone against a supply caravan, join a single group and capture a mine or create a large alliance to assault one of the numerous fortress that could give an advantage in the zone." The battle is on a large scale, where hundreds of people can fight on each side in week-long battles.
Each opposing world starts out with castles, mercenary camps, mines, lumber mills and villages. Separating the starting zones are neutral zones controlled by no one, also containing fortresses, mines, and villages.
The resources gained from mines and lumber mills are used to rebuild walls, create siege engines, and generally defend the team's fortress.
These territories and control points will confer benefits to the world that controls them; "maybe everyone gets increased energy regeneration or healing rate or enhanced loot drop rate." Players can gain experience and level their character in World PvP. Guilds will be able to take and hold keeps.
Players are free to come and go from the battle as they please and there is no limit to the number of players entering. Players enter with a character of any level and use skills they have available to that character. Characters can enter as a sidekick which will allow them to play as a higher level character.
World PvP is intended as a casual form of PvP, designed to be a more relaxed bridging point between PvE and the tactics and pressure of structured PvP. It is hoped that players of any level or PvP experience can participate and be useful.
From the GW2 Wiki
Quests and the Dynamic Event system.
There will be no NPC's with exclamation marks above their heads, quests have been replaced with a dynamic events system. Instead of picking up a traditional quest players will need to pay attention to their environment, visual clues such as the appearance of invading hordes or an NPC running out to call for help as well as more subtle clues such as changes to the environment will be the entry points for players to join in these events. Events are set to scale depending on player numbers, player level will not bar successful and meaningful involvement in these events, a higher level player can join lower level events and will find their skill level adjusted so that, while still being a little over powered for the event, they shouldn't be able to steam roll the event.
Events are dynamic and one event will effect other events further down the line, players always have the choice as to their level of involvement and which events to get involved in. NPC's will remember when a player has helped them out in the past and react differently after the event.
Players do not need to party to gain rewards from participating in an event, all players who participate will receive a reward, the majority of these rewards will consist of Karma and Gold, the player is then free to choose what items to spend it on.
It has been stated this events system means a player could visit the same area several times and not find the same events happening.
The events system eliminates kill stealing and encourages group play through the scaling dynamic, the more players the more interesting the fight can become.
There is a 'scout' NPC that will be able to tell you of the potential trouble spots in the local area to help you find possible events
Examples:
Centaurs may attack a village, players can help save the village or let it be captured, the centaurs could then set up base and try to expand without further player intervention in to surrounding territory. If the players defended the village there is nothing to say that the centaurs won't keep trying.
A player may return to a previously visited watermelon field to find the crops destroyed, the farmer may be calling for help to fight off an invader, at the same time the player has noticed the watermelons have gone because the field is over run by rabbits, on further investigation traps/cages may be found in that field, the player has the choice of either fending off the invading mob or help capture the rabbits.
Dynamic events
Q&A: Dynamic Events 1
Q&A: Dynamic Events 2
GDC Vault - Designing Guild Wars 2 Dynamic Events
PAX Panel of Events: Designing a New Dynamic Event with the Developers
MumboJumbo spent some time researching info on events- see this post
Dungeons
Dungeons are designed for five players. Instead of random loot drops players players will be rewarded with tokens to spend on dungeon items. Each dungeon will have the minimum of one armour set for each armour type and a full range of weapons as possible rewards. Initial encounters in dungeons will come from following the story, subsequent entries in to dungeons will be in an 'explorable' mode, players will have the opportunity to take different routes and have different encounters in a more difficult version.
From PC Gamer, posted on GW2 Guru
Crafting & Gathering
The crafting professions are:
Weaponsmith – Weaponsmiths craft melee weapons, such as swords, axes and hammers.
Huntsman – Huntsmen craft ranged weapons like bows and pistol, as well as torches and warhorns.
Artificer– Artificers craft magical weapons such as staves and scepters.
Armorsmith – Armorsmiths craft heavy armor pieces.
Leatherworker – Leatherworkers craft medium armor pieces.
Tailor – Tailors craft light armor pieces.
Jewelcrafter – Jewelcrafters craft jewelry, such as rings and necklaces.
Cook – Cooks can prepare food which characters can eat for temporary combat buffs.
Players can have two active crafting professions. Professions can be swapped at a cost, when relearning the previous profession you start at the level you left off, the higher the level the higher the cost of switching professions. Recipes can be discovered by putting in the four correct items to create that item in the crafting interface, recipes will also be available as drops. Crafting will take place at a workstation.
Gathering - all players can gather, there are no gathering professions to choose from. Nodes spawn so that each player can gather individually, you don't have to worry about someone stealing the node you are clearing mobs to reach, your quota will still be there.
See Andrew Mcleod Talks Crafting
Mini Games
Each major town will have it's own mini games, these are social activities that aren't dependant on character level, they will vary in their mechanics from complex games of skill, simple target practise, solo games, multiplayer and full on no rules bar brawls. They will carry rewards, for example during the bar brawl you may be rewarded by the local dentist by handing in teeth you've knocked out the mouth of your opponents. It's intended that these are fun past times that can step out side the normal rules of the wider game.
Activities - games within the game
None of what I posted has any cutscenes in them.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/287180/Everything-We-Know-about-GW2.html
Depends on what you mean by reflex. It's not going to require reflexes like an FPS. It's just more interactive.
There is still auto attack. But projectiles must hit a target. So if the target steps out of the way while the projectile is incoming, it will miss. Same with melee.
AoEs and such are ground targeted. To block, you must raise your shield in the form of a skill or something similar. Flames impacting a shield will deflect and fluster around the shield. This is due to the Havok engine. You cannot target your ally when using support skills. You have to find them, and cast accordingly.
I wouldn't call it an action game. You won't be clicking to attack. You'll just have to aim the majority of the skills. You will however, have to keep a keen eye ON the battlefield and OFF your skill bar.
Also, it won't be a dodge-fest. In the current state, dodging drains up a lot of your energy, maybe more than any other skill right now. Dodging leads to exhuastion pretty quickly. I think we have it charted at 10-15 dodges will comsume your energy bar. That along with actually usage of skills... maybe just a handful of dodges before you run dry. Of course there are still skills to help maintain energy.
So GW2 won't be like God of War. But it won't be like WoW. More like... God of WoW.
For the teleportation to waypoints, thats actually covered in the lore as to why you are able to do that in GW2. Its called a Hole-in-my-Pocket and it allows the user to travel to known places.
Well that deffo tells "try before you buy" to me. Not sure I'll be comfortable with that playstyle.
From what we know of WvWvW is that 3 servers will be pitted up against each other in a week long battle that is done in its own area that consists of at least 4 zones. There will be fortresses and objectives for each server to do. It is also supposed to hold a massive amount of people at once. ArenaNet means by massive that there will be hundreds of people fighting at once.
If you want to think of it as a battleground then by all means go ahead. But you should be thinking along the lines of larger than the largest battleground you have ever seen.
ArenaNet doesn't call it open world PvP.
Yes, it does, doesn't it. But a few of us here have actually tried it. I don't think anyone yet has complained about it being too actiony.
I find the "visual actions" a bit annoying. Like spells and sparkles everywhere... but the actual mechanics of the action don't seem to be too much.
Still, this may not be for you.
Hopefully there'll be some kind of open beta.
Open beta starts in june.
Just kidding. But they did promise open beta closer to launch.
Do teleporting really make a world closed?
But yes, we do need some redefining here. This mists is not a battleground and it isn't open PvP either. Battlegrounds are rather small and have a few objectives, one side will win.
This thing is more complicated and open for a week, and a lot larger.
We do however know very little of the mists yet so we have to wait and see.