It's a bit pointless to argue about this issue to be honest. J.Song already gave you the answer; ArcheAge plans for a 50% sandboxness (WoW at 0% - UO at 100%).
Ofcourse this doesn't mean that ArcheAge's sandbox features will be 50% away from UO's... To elabtore,for the 2 continents the "sandbox meter" will be <50%. But in the north continent it will be much more than 50%.
And also consider a critical sandbox feature of ArcheAge.You will be able to shape the world -to 'control' the fauna and the flora-,to fully interact with the enviroment and with the structures, the given or the player-created structures.
Sandbox MMORPGs that are not very well-known but definitely worth a look:
Ryzom, Haven and Hearth, Xsyon, The Repopulation, UO private shards, Mortal Online, Darkfall 1 remakes (New Dawn or Rise of Agon), RPG MO, Project Gorgon, EQ: Sanctuary (custom server)
I still think it would have been better to make 2 seperate games. Why force the Sandbox people to play a themepark game for a year before they can play their sandbox?
And the themepark people won't go to the sandbox continent cus they don't want to be pked.
And this mix will create a lot of problems for the sandbox game. In the sandbox game, you spend a lot of time gathering money and resources to fuel your empire. So there will be a lot of pvp at resource nodes and such. But if people can gather resources and gold on the safety of the main continents,then the sandbox continent will be empty most of the time.
Why force the Sandbox people to play a themepark game for a year before they can play their sandbox?
You keep using this timespan (year), but have yet to provide a link to where you are getting this from. If it is a guess, then it is just that a guess. If it is a real number show us where you heard or read it.
I still think it would have been better to make 2 seperate games. Why force the Sandbox people to play a themepark game for a year before they can play their sandbox?
And the themepark people won't go to the sandbox continent cus they don't want to be pked.
And this mix will create a lot of problems for the sandbox game. In the sandbox game, you spend a lot of time gathering money and resources to fuel your empire. So there will be a lot of pvp at resource nodes and such. But if people can gather resources and gold on the safety of the main continents,then the sandbox continent will be empty most of the time.
Hmmm I guess you need to try some games like Ultima Online or Darkfall to see how alike systems work. And sandbox/themepark is not all about PvP and PvE! No need to say that many games have proven that they can co-exist perfectly.
Now as far as real sandbox/themepark features are concerned, they may co-exist but we will be assured when ArcheAge releases.
Sandbox MMORPGs that are not very well-known but definitely worth a look:
Ryzom, Haven and Hearth, Xsyon, The Repopulation, UO private shards, Mortal Online, Darkfall 1 remakes (New Dawn or Rise of Agon), RPG MO, Project Gorgon, EQ: Sanctuary (custom server)
You can build houses, forests, plantations, ships, factions, cities, castles, etc. How's that L2+WoW?
and more important you do not have a class...but mix your own...but then OP sounds like just wanting PvP.....which to me have nothing to do with it being a sandbox or not, even if PvP sound to be a heavy part of the endgame of this game - not the only but part of it....how big depending how important it is to keep territories I guess.
either way if there is alot of solo quests then its = wow to me ;P havent seen any yet...but then I havent seen alot of the questing yet at all
Do the people in here really know what a sandbox game really is.
It is a game where all that is provided is a skill system, weapon system and a way for players to get together.
It does not mean PvP or no PvP. It does not mean player housing or no player housing.
Most of the early Sandbox MMORPGs failed or had to evolve because they were loosing players because it also meant that players had to learn the system through frustrating trial and error.
So far what I have seen is that the game will use a themepark system to teach people the game before allowing them to move into and unscripted part of the game.
If the early sandbox MMORPGs had done this from the beginning they would probably be more prevelent today.
I still think it would have been better to make 2 seperate games. Why force the Sandbox people to play a themepark game for a year before they can play their sandbox?
And the themepark people won't go to the sandbox continent cus they don't want to be pked.
And this mix will create a lot of problems for the sandbox game. In the sandbox game, you spend a lot of time gathering money and resources to fuel your empire. So there will be a lot of pvp at resource nodes and such. But if people can gather resources and gold on the safety of the main continents,then the sandbox continent will be empty most of the time.
When did you fall under the impression that there was no pvp in the other 2 continents? In the first 2 Closed Beta tests there was pvp even though the 3rd continent was unavailiable.
The two southern continents are in conflict with each other for gods sake.
"I will Turn your name into a synonym for weakness"
the game lloks like fun. Ill wait to play to be very critical of it.
Till then, I like what they have shown, however all that could be a waste if it is not implemented properly. I wish them the best and I hope they suceed at elevating the genre to the next level. We will all be the beneficiaries of that, would we not?
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I think it will depend a lot on the ruleset they use, which I'm sure they've not finalized yet. A game can have a hybrid of theme/sandbox and not cause problems if they do it right. Starting you out in PVE early, let you get the feel of the game, and then turn you loose sounds smart to me.....think EVE, it has pure PVP as a major component, but it doesn't start out that way. Maybe AA will have something similar. I hope so, this sounds like my new home if they can pull it off.
"It is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth -- and listen to the song of that syren, till she transforms us into beasts. ... Are we disposed to be of the number of those, who having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not?" --Patrick Henry
I'd like to inject this bit of sanity into the discussion - having themepark elements does not render a sandbox ineffective. Having lots of places to explore that give entry trigger quests or more traditional quest handlers are fine. they're something RPGs have been using since day one, even tabletop games had this idea working for a long time to a certain degree with the way GMs handle NPCs. This is content for groups of people or single players to progress in weapon skills and find craftables like most all games, even sandbox games have. this should NEVER GO AWAY. People need shit to do other than harvesting ore to make another sword to go stab another player in te face. PvP should always stay the backseat even in a sandbox with robust features supporting it, for a very good reason. (generally lots of people like sandboxes. about one in every ten or so safely likes PvP. Ypou want to design features for 90% of your playerbase.)
I honestly think you mean well but you are failing to understand what PVP does for a sandbox and why it -has- to be the endgame. PVP is the main driving force in any sandbox game, it both makes and breaks things making the world go around on several levels of the gameplay, economically, socially and if it is done well it rises the gameplay to truly massive levels. Politics, drama, espionage metagame, backstabbing, maneovering all that jazz that makes a world interesting and immersive. The PVE part of the game cannot be greater than the PVP part, think about it; a sandbox game is all about playercreated content and dont confuse things because crafting, industry and buildings is only a driveforce to that and you wanna stuff the game with PVE content and claim that its a sandbox, really? Tell you what, if you want to make a good sandbox game, take a definitive stand, this is the line between PVP and PVE; this is where it is, we wont ever make PVE more important than PVP and if you DONT LIEK EET... dont play a sandbox game. Because you need to strike a balance, make PVE interesting sure, but this can be achieved through decent storytelling and good wholesome gameplay, do not make it at the expense of PVP, those PVP territories need to be there and they need to be a main driving force for the game.
On a side note, I have absolutely no idea why so many Fantasy themed MMORPGs go for the boring themepark type of gameplay, the fantasy setting fits this ideal like a glove on a foot. Honestly I think its the consumers fault, too many carebears who dont want to lose their precious shiny things. Pah!
You understand very little about mmorpg's... you're confusing PvP with arcade. Player vs Environement is something far grater than any guild, any player. The envirenment (ie: world) is what the whole game is based on. All the turumoils, trials and tribulation that everone must endure.
Animals, mobs, dragons, etc... are the setting in which any player interaction & wars are played upon.
Again.. ur understanding of mmorpg mechanics and features-sets, is nil.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
On the contrary, the main continents let you do everything except build siege castles. Thats that the 3rd continent is mostly for: player made siege warfare.
But the other 2 continents let you build houses, farms, shape the land, plant forests, build ships, etc etc. The combat system is wow style, but thats about it.
Being able to build a house or have a garden isn't a sandbox. its only a sandbox if the house can be captured or destroyed. A sandbox is all about controlling territory, and the freedom to build and destrroy whatever is out there. Thats what creates the politics, alliances , betrayals etc.
Ahhh... now I understand what your motivation is for your complaints.
There's always at least one post made by people that reveals the real point behind their remarks, and this post would seem to be it.
All the other things you can do in the game, that are very sandbox don't matter, because you want to be able to destroy other players' property and won't be able to. So, because it lacks that one element that you're interested in... it's "not a sandbox".
That's one of the simplest, and least substantial arguments people use around here (and elsewhere for that matter); "I don't like "x", therefor the game isn't "y".
In this case, not being able to destroy players' houses isn't "required" for it to be a sandbox. There's plenty else about the game that satisfies that categorization. It simply makes it a sandbox without one option you are particularly interested in. There is a difference.
Another common example is "If you can't PK newbies in their starting areas and walk away without penalty or consequence, then it's not real hardcore PvP". In almost all cases, the only people you'll see making that claim are the people who want to go into newbie areas and gank newbies all day, and are pissed that they can't.
Same exact concept.
Or maybe he wants to build a grand empire that can be threatened by and defended against baddies as in other enemy players. I know that is my motivation for wanting something like that in a game, being an asshole is occationally funny but it really doesnt appeal to me as a person. To say that bullying is the only reason to have a design that allows you to mess with other peoples stuff is plain dumb.
"People" (as you say), don't wage full scale wars, do they? They usually deal with their vendettas personally. Empire building and land control comes under the realm of Guilds. Which will be able to wage war with others for territory.
Land control is not the perview of small groups, individuals, or even crafters. They can freely travel the world as they see fit and settle down in which areas they feel most oppertunitic, or profitable. With politics comming in the form of establishing a good reputation as an weapon's maker, hunter, dungeon crawler, etc.
Therefore, single player housing doesn't need the same game mechanic as guild Keeps, or Castles. Perhaps single player houses might not be able to be destroyed, but why? I am sure they will be able to br broken into and a smaller meta game of locked doors, chests and thieves become the common folk game.
Nothing you say make sense, or is even based on game mechanics.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Asheron's Call is a sandbox that has pve servers!!!!
Sandbox or Themepark has nothing to do with PVP. It has to do with developing your character any way you want, and being able to go anywhere at anytime.
Also, the deep skill system is meaningless if it takes you a year to level one character. You won't have time to experiment with different types of charcters.
Characters that max in a week or a month are boring to me.
I like longevity. EQ1, Eve, Ryzom etc.. understood this right
**************************** Playing : Uncharted Waters Online ****************************
@ Phelcher. Erm, I think you are misunderstanding me. I was replying to a wiew on what sandbox play is and what is Themepark. Completely unrelated to the game... it looks really nice, i cant wait to try it.
I dont know how exactly it is possible to confuse arcade with pvp and how that is what i was saying, so that confuses me even more. You seem to be stating facts like they are a counter arguement to what i was saying which is rather not the case. As you say, the enviroment is important, its is more often than not the subject of what PVP revolves around but that is also not allways the case, in Eve Online for example players will PVP to burn other peoples stuff or simply for the -goodfights-. Thers also a diffrence between supporting and encouraging a strong PVE ideal which leads me to the other thing you seem to misunderstand.
Now what i meant about destructible items/buildings/stuff. First of all, I was speaking figuratively, no everything doesnt need to be destructible for it to be a sandbox, but it is not a bad idea. Stuff that is destroyed will be replaced and there will be a far better supply and demand relationship as opposed to a world where a limited number of stuff is destructible and a themepark world where items are only really obsoleted. Destruction is also a form of creation and that is a very strong ideal to put into the sandbox world. You want to encourage conflict and nothing does that like having your items destroyed or looted.
Asheron's Call is a sandbox that has pve servers!!!!
Sandbox or Themepark has nothing to do with PVP. It has to do with developing your character any way you want, and being able to go anywhere at anytime.
Thats rather naive of you you to be brutally honest. Anyone who have played a pvp oriented game like Eve online will tell you that any PVE oriented game will never reach the same hights of sandbox play as a PVP oriented game. Its all relatively, a sandbox I suppose. Truth is Eve probably spoiled me certainly for the themepark games, I played wow for 6 years and was helplessly hooked until i tried Eve for a longer period. :S
The devs have already stated this game has a hybrid play model and thats fine- thats exactly what they are stating it will be.
I don't see the debate in this thread.
Thats right the head director confirmed that they are going to make the game a hybrid.
The real question for this thread is whether the game will consist of full sandbox elements with some theme park rides for varying enjoyment , or some sandbox elements with theme park rides filling up the rest of the game. I certainly hope for the first one, but I am yet to find an answer from the developers. The politics system, pvp system, restrictions on travelling, building houses, the abilities to change the flora, and some other are definitely fit to be called sandbox. But what about the economics and the gear system? The mechanics behind these are still unknown.
What do you guys think? if Archage constitute a relatively static economy and a gear system similar to lineage/WoW while keeping the other sandbox designs I said in the previews paragraph, could we still call Archage a sandbox game? More importantly, would it be fun? more so than if it was completely sandbox?
I don't care what label you give it, this game has the potential to be the "everygame". I think both PvP and PvE players want an open (if you don't want to call it sandbox) world game like AA and all the features therein. The question seems to be how you integrate the two and if the developers can implement all the pieces to make it work for both sides. The task seems daunting at best.
I kind of hope they keep the main continents separate for PvE and either allow no PvP or make it so hard only the best PvPers can make a living there (dodging npc guards, bounty hunters etc.). The northern island could be used PvE wise for major quests or specialized training where you do have to go and risk your head if you want something good. The PvP danger aspect does add a lot to a PvE gamers play. Unfortunately without adding further PvP restrictions passed what continent you can be on there's little to stop the ganking of PvEers. Over time that drives those gamers (aka, added developement dollars) towards other shores.
There is a real opportunity here for XLGames to break the mold and have something for everyone. Sure people are going to complain because it's not how this is or like that is but that's the point. AA seems centered around current technology and innovation. This means not being like other games.
This looks like a great game I like the sandbox and themepark elements but will there be an english server and is this going to be one of those mmo's that never gets a big enough community to support its features?
This looks like a great game I like the sandbox and themepark elements but will there be an english server and is this going to be one of those mmo's that never gets a big enough community to support its features?
Yes. The game is being developed with the western audience as its target and has a good sized budget behind it. Judging by all the cool sandbox and PvP seige aspects and a themepark combat style I think this game will be pretty successful. There is undoubtedly a large audience waiting for a AAA game with a sandbox element, and I think over the past couple of years even some themepark gamers have been left looking for something more with so many 'clones' being released in close succession. With the exception of a few indie releases satiating the diehard sandbox fans but mostly disappointing the masses, nothing with sand has been released since WoW's first expansion had the majority of MMO gamers' attention.
@ Phelcher. Erm, I think you are misunderstanding me. I was replying to a wiew on what sandbox play is and what is Themepark. Completely unrelated to the game... it looks really nice, i cant wait to try it.
I dont know how exactly it is possible to confuse arcade with pvp and how that is what i was saying, so that confuses me even more. You seem to be stating facts like they are a counter arguement to what i was saying which is rather not the case. As you say, the enviroment is important, its is more often than not the subject of what PVP revolves around but that is also not allways the case, in Eve Online for example players will PVP to burn other peoples stuff or simply for the -goodfights-. Thers also a diffrence between supporting and encouraging a strong PVE ideal which leads me to the other thing you seem to misunderstand.
Now what i meant about destructible items/buildings/stuff. First of all, I was speaking figuratively, no everything doesnt need to be destructible for it to be a sandbox, but it is not a bad idea. Stuff that is destroyed will be replaced and there will be a far better supply and demand relationship as opposed to a world where a limited number of stuff is destructible and a themepark world where items are only really obsoleted. Destruction is also a form of creation and that is a very strong ideal to put into the sandbox world. You want to encourage conflict and nothing does that like having your items destroyed or looted.
My friend, you are speaking of ONE element, that entices people to PvP games, etc. What you are suggesting can (and is) played out, on a per-basis encounter. Item decay and rare resources isn't something you've just thought up. They were a staple of older mmorpg's.
Secondly, ... all of that^ player encountering player (ie: contention), is taking place, in many places throughout the ENVIRONMENT. Having the right PvP mechanics is important, and @ multiple levels.
But thee reason for a mmorpg?
What ur doing, is vastly different than what other people are doing in other parts of the world. A crafter (two sea ports over) doesn't care about a 15 man guild raizeing a larger guild's keep. Who knows, he might have orchestrated it, but the point is, all the lving animals, dungeons, mountain topss, flora & fauna, etc.. is vastly more important that just PvP. Overcoming a trek through a mountain pass used to be called PvE.... because the environment was tretcherous.
Ultimately, in a balanced sandbox, player contention is played out @ banks, @ local smiths, @ trader halls, within guilds, in dark ally's, on the battlefield, in the back room, etc. Some of the best player contention (ie: PvP) is often verbal.
Then u ask for full loot? As a reason, to fuel the economy..? ....yet, not understand item decay, or non-player characters (NPC's) who thwart everyons attempts at glory, thus costing you upkeep on your weapontry..?? Hrmmm...
What has you so convinced ArcheAge is so wrong. That you have to point the obvious out?
There is a difference, between a full pvp game & a deep pvp game. Most don't seem to understand this.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Again, I can only point to what i said in the beginning of the post you are quoting, I dont think we are all that disagreeing but you seem to not read what im writing to any kind of depth, I am at a loss here so Im just gonna stop posting. :P
You can build houses, forests, plantations, ships, factions, cities, castles, etc. How's that L2+WoW?
Because you can't do any of that on the main continents. The 2 main continents are a themepark game. Then after a year of playing a thempark game, you can move over to the sandbox game. why not make one or the other? Why try to make both?
And the fact that 2/3 of the game is dedicated to thempark, and only 1/3 is dedicated to sandbox has me worried.
Also, the deep skill system is meaningless if it takes you a year to level one character. You won't have time to experiment with different types of charcters.
Still waiting for OP to provide a source for his "info".
So, OP, what gives? You going to give us a link? Or admit you're pulling this info out of your back-side?
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
You can build houses, forests, plantations, ships, factions, cities, castles, etc. How's that L2+WoW?
Because you can't do any of that on the main continents. The 2 main continents are a themepark game. Then after a year of playing a thempark game, you can move over to the sandbox game. why not make one or the other? Why try to make both?
And the fact that 2/3 of the game is dedicated to thempark, and only 1/3 is dedicated to sandbox has me worried.
Also, the deep skill system is meaningless if it takes you a year to level one character. You won't have time to experiment with different types of charcters.
Still waiting for OP to provide a source for his "info".
So, OP, what gives? You going to give us a link? Or admit you're pulling this info out of your back-side?
He's pulling the information out of nowhere. You can do all the building and stuff even on the main lands, but the destructibility, I don't know. But here's what certain:
- There are 2 factions at the start of the game you need to choose from, choose wisely.
- There are 2 types of servers: One where you can atttack your own faction members with consequences, and another where you can't.
- The consequences can be removed by becoming a villain ("pirate") without a faction. (At this point, I cannot say if pirates can destroy stuff built on the 2 beginner continents), but they can certainly PK people there.
All in all it sounds like the 2 continents are designed for RvR with UO's criminals in there. The 3rd continent is all Shadowbane.
In addition, there has been a statement that one faction can conquer all the possible ares you can "have." Faction can be pure player faction made by players, this should equal that the whole world is conquerable. (In theory, but when you start thinking of the requirements for owning the entire 3 continents makes it rather impossible).
So, its Shadowbane with UO's PK & anti-PK attitudes added into it.
Comments
It's a bit pointless to argue about this issue to be honest. J.Song already gave you the answer; ArcheAge plans for a 50% sandboxness (WoW at 0% - UO at 100%).
Ofcourse this doesn't mean that ArcheAge's sandbox features will be 50% away from UO's... To elabtore,for the 2 continents the "sandbox meter" will be <50%. But in the north continent it will be much more than 50%.
And also consider a critical sandbox feature of ArcheAge.You will be able to shape the world -to 'control' the fauna and the flora-,to fully interact with the enviroment and with the structures, the given or the player-created structures.
Ryzom, Haven and Hearth, Xsyon, The Repopulation, UO private shards, Mortal Online, Darkfall 1 remakes (New Dawn or Rise of Agon), RPG MO, Project Gorgon, EQ: Sanctuary (custom server)
it does seem like a mix of themepark and sandbox elements. which is why its stupid people comparing it to swg and stuff.
but yeah I hate themepark stuff but maybe it will work out nice lets wait and see.
My blog:
I still think it would have been better to make 2 seperate games. Why force the Sandbox people to play a themepark game for a year before they can play their sandbox?
And the themepark people won't go to the sandbox continent cus they don't want to be pked.
And this mix will create a lot of problems for the sandbox game. In the sandbox game, you spend a lot of time gathering money and resources to fuel your empire. So there will be a lot of pvp at resource nodes and such. But if people can gather resources and gold on the safety of the main continents,then the sandbox continent will be empty most of the time.
You keep using this timespan (year), but have yet to provide a link to where you are getting this from. If it is a guess, then it is just that a guess. If it is a real number show us where you heard or read it.
Hmmm I guess you need to try some games like Ultima Online or Darkfall to see how alike systems work. And sandbox/themepark is not all about PvP and PvE! No need to say that many games have proven that they can co-exist perfectly.
Now as far as real sandbox/themepark features are concerned, they may co-exist but we will be assured when ArcheAge releases.
Ryzom, Haven and Hearth, Xsyon, The Repopulation, UO private shards, Mortal Online, Darkfall 1 remakes (New Dawn or Rise of Agon), RPG MO, Project Gorgon, EQ: Sanctuary (custom server)
Do the people in here really know what a sandbox game really is.
It is a game where all that is provided is a skill system, weapon system and a way for players to get together.
It does not mean PvP or no PvP. It does not mean player housing or no player housing.
Most of the early Sandbox MMORPGs failed or had to evolve because they were loosing players because it also meant that players had to learn the system through frustrating trial and error.
So far what I have seen is that the game will use a themepark system to teach people the game before allowing them to move into and unscripted part of the game.
If the early sandbox MMORPGs had done this from the beginning they would probably be more prevelent today.
When did you fall under the impression that there was no pvp in the other 2 continents? In the first 2 Closed Beta tests there was pvp even though the 3rd continent was unavailiable.
The two southern continents are in conflict with each other for gods sake.
"I will Turn your name into a synonym for weakness"
the game lloks like fun. Ill wait to play to be very critical of it.
Till then, I like what they have shown, however all that could be a waste if it is not implemented properly. I wish them the best and I hope they suceed at elevating the genre to the next level. We will all be the beneficiaries of that, would we not?
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I think it will depend a lot on the ruleset they use, which I'm sure they've not finalized yet. A game can have a hybrid of theme/sandbox and not cause problems if they do it right. Starting you out in PVE early, let you get the feel of the game, and then turn you loose sounds smart to me.....think EVE, it has pure PVP as a major component, but it doesn't start out that way. Maybe AA will have something similar. I hope so, this sounds like my new home if they can pull it off.
"It is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth -- and listen to the song of that syren, till she transforms us into beasts. ... Are we disposed to be of the number of those, who having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not?" --Patrick Henry
Look into "it" some more... education is the key, that way people don't start threads based on lack of knowledge.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
You understand very little about mmorpg's... you're confusing PvP with arcade. Player vs Environement is something far grater than any guild, any player. The envirenment (ie: world) is what the whole game is based on. All the turumoils, trials and tribulation that everone must endure.
Animals, mobs, dragons, etc... are the setting in which any player interaction & wars are played upon.
Again.. ur understanding of mmorpg mechanics and features-sets, is nil.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
"People" (as you say), don't wage full scale wars, do they? They usually deal with their vendettas personally. Empire building and land control comes under the realm of Guilds. Which will be able to wage war with others for territory.
Land control is not the perview of small groups, individuals, or even crafters. They can freely travel the world as they see fit and settle down in which areas they feel most oppertunitic, or profitable. With politics comming in the form of establishing a good reputation as an weapon's maker, hunter, dungeon crawler, etc.
Therefore, single player housing doesn't need the same game mechanic as guild Keeps, or Castles. Perhaps single player houses might not be able to be destroyed, but why? I am sure they will be able to br broken into and a smaller meta game of locked doors, chests and thieves become the common folk game.
Nothing you say make sense, or is even based on game mechanics.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Asheron's Call is a sandbox that has pve servers!!!!
Sandbox or Themepark has nothing to do with PVP. It has to do with developing your character any way you want, and being able to go anywhere at anytime.
Characters that max in a week or a month are boring to me.
I like longevity. EQ1, Eve, Ryzom etc.. understood this right
****************************
Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
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The devs have already stated this game has a hybrid play model and thats fine- thats exactly what they are stating it will be.
I don't see the debate in this thread.
@ Phelcher. Erm, I think you are misunderstanding me. I was replying to a wiew on what sandbox play is and what is Themepark. Completely unrelated to the game... it looks really nice, i cant wait to try it.
I dont know how exactly it is possible to confuse arcade with pvp and how that is what i was saying, so that confuses me even more. You seem to be stating facts like they are a counter arguement to what i was saying which is rather not the case. As you say, the enviroment is important, its is more often than not the subject of what PVP revolves around but that is also not allways the case, in Eve Online for example players will PVP to burn other peoples stuff or simply for the -goodfights-. Thers also a diffrence between supporting and encouraging a strong PVE ideal which leads me to the other thing you seem to misunderstand.
Now what i meant about destructible items/buildings/stuff. First of all, I was speaking figuratively, no everything doesnt need to be destructible for it to be a sandbox, but it is not a bad idea. Stuff that is destroyed will be replaced and there will be a far better supply and demand relationship as opposed to a world where a limited number of stuff is destructible and a themepark world where items are only really obsoleted. Destruction is also a form of creation and that is a very strong ideal to put into the sandbox world. You want to encourage conflict and nothing does that like having your items destroyed or looted.
Thats rather naive of you you to be brutally honest. Anyone who have played a pvp oriented game like Eve online will tell you that any PVE oriented game will never reach the same hights of sandbox play as a PVP oriented game. Its all relatively, a sandbox I suppose. Truth is Eve probably spoiled me certainly for the themepark games, I played wow for 6 years and was helplessly hooked until i tried Eve for a longer period. :S
Thats right the head director confirmed that they are going to make the game a hybrid.
The real question for this thread is whether the game will consist of full sandbox elements with some theme park rides for varying enjoyment , or some sandbox elements with theme park rides filling up the rest of the game. I certainly hope for the first one, but I am yet to find an answer from the developers. The politics system, pvp system, restrictions on travelling, building houses, the abilities to change the flora, and some other are definitely fit to be called sandbox. But what about the economics and the gear system? The mechanics behind these are still unknown.
What do you guys think? if Archage constitute a relatively static economy and a gear system similar to lineage/WoW while keeping the other sandbox designs I said in the previews paragraph, could we still call Archage a sandbox game? More importantly, would it be fun? more so than if it was completely sandbox?
I don't care what label you give it, this game has the potential to be the "everygame". I think both PvP and PvE players want an open (if you don't want to call it sandbox) world game like AA and all the features therein. The question seems to be how you integrate the two and if the developers can implement all the pieces to make it work for both sides. The task seems daunting at best.
I kind of hope they keep the main continents separate for PvE and either allow no PvP or make it so hard only the best PvPers can make a living there (dodging npc guards, bounty hunters etc.). The northern island could be used PvE wise for major quests or specialized training where you do have to go and risk your head if you want something good. The PvP danger aspect does add a lot to a PvE gamers play. Unfortunately without adding further PvP restrictions passed what continent you can be on there's little to stop the ganking of PvEers. Over time that drives those gamers (aka, added developement dollars) towards other shores.
There is a real opportunity here for XLGames to break the mold and have something for everyone. Sure people are going to complain because it's not how this is or like that is but that's the point. AA seems centered around current technology and innovation. This means not being like other games.
Just not worth my time anymore.
This looks like a great game I like the sandbox and themepark elements but will there be an english server and is this going to be one of those mmo's that never gets a big enough community to support its features?
Yes. The game is being developed with the western audience as its target and has a good sized budget behind it. Judging by all the cool sandbox and PvP seige aspects and a themepark combat style I think this game will be pretty successful. There is undoubtedly a large audience waiting for a AAA game with a sandbox element, and I think over the past couple of years even some themepark gamers have been left looking for something more with so many 'clones' being released in close succession. With the exception of a few indie releases satiating the diehard sandbox fans but mostly disappointing the masses, nothing with sand has been released since WoW's first expansion had the majority of MMO gamers' attention.
My friend, you are speaking of ONE element, that entices people to PvP games, etc. What you are suggesting can (and is) played out, on a per-basis encounter. Item decay and rare resources isn't something you've just thought up. They were a staple of older mmorpg's.
Secondly, ... all of that^ player encountering player (ie: contention), is taking place, in many places throughout the ENVIRONMENT. Having the right PvP mechanics is important, and @ multiple levels.
But thee reason for a mmorpg?
What ur doing, is vastly different than what other people are doing in other parts of the world. A crafter (two sea ports over) doesn't care about a 15 man guild raizeing a larger guild's keep. Who knows, he might have orchestrated it, but the point is, all the lving animals, dungeons, mountain topss, flora & fauna, etc.. is vastly more important that just PvP. Overcoming a trek through a mountain pass used to be called PvE.... because the environment was tretcherous.
Ultimately, in a balanced sandbox, player contention is played out @ banks, @ local smiths, @ trader halls, within guilds, in dark ally's, on the battlefield, in the back room, etc. Some of the best player contention (ie: PvP) is often verbal.
Then u ask for full loot? As a reason, to fuel the economy..? ....yet, not understand item decay, or non-player characters (NPC's) who thwart everyons attempts at glory, thus costing you upkeep on your weapontry..?? Hrmmm...
What has you so convinced ArcheAge is so wrong. That you have to point the obvious out?
There is a difference, between a full pvp game & a deep pvp game. Most don't seem to understand this.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Again, I can only point to what i said in the beginning of the post you are quoting, I dont think we are all that disagreeing but you seem to not read what im writing to any kind of depth, I am at a loss here so Im just gonna stop posting. :P
Still waiting for OP to provide a source for his "info".
So, OP, what gives? You going to give us a link? Or admit you're pulling this info out of your back-side?
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
He's pulling the information out of nowhere. You can do all the building and stuff even on the main lands, but the destructibility, I don't know. But here's what certain:
- There are 2 factions at the start of the game you need to choose from, choose wisely.
- There are 2 types of servers: One where you can atttack your own faction members with consequences, and another where you can't.
- The consequences can be removed by becoming a villain ("pirate") without a faction. (At this point, I cannot say if pirates can destroy stuff built on the 2 beginner continents), but they can certainly PK people there.
All in all it sounds like the 2 continents are designed for RvR with UO's criminals in there. The 3rd continent is all Shadowbane.
In addition, there has been a statement that one faction can conquer all the possible ares you can "have." Faction can be pure player faction made by players, this should equal that the whole world is conquerable. (In theory, but when you start thinking of the requirements for owning the entire 3 continents makes it rather impossible).
So, its Shadowbane with UO's PK & anti-PK attitudes added into it.