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Read OP then vote, let's see if WE can change gaming.
Justin83x
Member Posts: 406
Everyone keeps talking about how they are sick of games always using a level system. So say they made a game with no progression through levels. Lets say that someone made a game where through the whole game your stats you choose at start never changed. Say they even made the skills you could use all do, lets say 3 different levels of damage. Ex. skill level 1 would always do 15 damage with a cool down of 2 seconds. Skill 2 would always do 25 damage but have a cool down of 5 seconds. Skill 3 would do 50 damage but have a cool down of 15 seconds. Say you only can have 3 combat skills 1 healing and utility skill giving you 5 total. The devs give you a bunch of different ones, and types(meaning like ranged, melee, and magical) to choose from they just all follow the same rules. The skills all have different looks though when they are use. That way everyone doesn't get bored of the same actions over and over.
Gear would add very minimal bonuses, but the gear you wore allowed for different skills to be used. By different skills I mean if you have a shield then you can block, if no shield then you can dodge. Or ranged or magical skills depending on weapon type. Gear would just look different as you progressed through the game. Starting very plain and getting cooler looking towards the end, but always having the same stat bonuses. Just improved looks.
The devs even give you a progress level say for those people that need to feel like they are gaining something for all their fighting, and questing. The level would just be for looks or bragging rights though with say a 200 cap. It could also unlock new quests or crafting items. You could also have a world level, or rank based on a mix of total kills and kill to pvp death ratio. That could unlock cooler looking skills. The starter skills would be dull and boring. The ones you unlock through player progression from pve, or pvp would get cooler and cooler looking.
I said this in a later post, but the game would also have a way to block or dodge. The blocking would work like a blocking in a action fighting game. Dodge would be like GW2, but you be able to jump roll in a direction you choose. Both skills would go off a stamina bar. So saving ur blocks, or dodges for the right times would be a factor.
Also people try to think how much data the level system, or skill level system, and the devs trying to balance all of it takes up. If all that was simplified in a game like I'm talking about, imagine all the extra stuff they could add to such a game. The devs could maybe add a good AI system to a few npc factions that try to form guild type groups and build there own cities that players could take from them. Or maybe the npc factions could try to take player cities from the players. Then there could be a true PvPvE like aion tried but failed cuz the enemy AI isn't good enough. All the different things they would have room for could maybe have room for better graphics in game but require less from the systems from better coding. I'm not a dev or know what it takes but I am sure it would leave alot of room for better stuff everywhere else.
Another thing I want to add about a game like this when they release expansion packs, the new content wouldn't be about grinding that new set of gear. The expansion packs would be about exploring new lands, finding new quests, and taking over new lands.
Also new players wouldn't be scared to try this game because there would be no catch up period. There would be no super toons for those players with no lives to run around and gank or grief noob's with.
The game would have all the things you find in normal sandbox games. It would just have the above combat, and progression styles. Would you play a game like that?
P.S. sorry for the bad grammer and punctuation.
Comments
Let me add that I would play it because the game would be totally balanced, and player skill would make the player.
I think I would, but where's the learning curve, how do you know where the harder content is located if there are no areas dedicated to players ranging from level x to x? Players will require hard content once they've learned the basics.
Did you read the whole post? I said that gear was a non factor gear bonuses are the same across the board. The only difference is the looks of it. The better gear just looked cooler, but it's not any better stat wise.
I would totaly. Skill based games tend to require some skill. also player driven economy mixed with it,have always provided entertainment beyond the level cap crap and waiting for new content. plus you don't have to wait for content as often because much of it is players driven.
of course if you like dealing with end game being boring and repetive, and class nerfs every patch then yeah enjoy it. I never did but everyones different. some people like being trapped in a box with very little options to ever escape it.
Not me, no levels = no real sense of accomplishment imo
The wall of txt could be problem for many not reading your topic next time leave sometimes some space between few sentence it read alittle better.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I would never play such a game, and I doubt any developer would ever make that game.
If there isn't any gold at the end of the rainbow, then why play? Why do a raid, if you won't get rewarded?
Why do pvp, if you won't get rewarded in some way?
Why even level up, if you won't achieve anything, but some better-looking pixels?
It just doesn't make sense. Who would waste several months, powerleveling to, say, level 200, just to be as good as a level 1?
But a levelless game? Sure, as long as there are still skills to improve, such as "sword" or "speed", and you skill up in those, by actually using a sword, or running.
I am sorry, but I just don't see your game ever working.
funnily enough most of my favourite games are ones without levels.. its not a new idea, its been implemented quite a few times, with varying degrees of success, Eve Online being probably the most obvious one at the moment, but others like Planetside (the only levels there were equipment certs and didnt affect how tough a player was or not) SWG (pre-cu - which is arguably the best version of the game to date) ... i would add though, that its levels that often create the biggest problems in any game that involves PVP.. so.. yes.. my preference is games without levels. as for bragging rights.. there are all kinds of medal/achievements systems.. though .. player housing/guild housing with the ability to 'display' successes would probably do that better.... than some arbitrary number assigned to a player.
Lvls and classes get rid of it and ill concider playing it, like TSW that have no lvls or classes:)
Also gear depended games i dont realy like.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Would you mind if I gave you a tip as well? Use more commas and full stops.
Not looking for grammar police. I said sorry for bad grammar and such. I just wanna talk about the post. If you wanna edit it for me how you think I should have wrote it then go ahead, and I will fix it to your liking.
Hell yes I would. I'd love for a company to make a (non-RPG) MMO that was purely skill-based and all about interaction between players and with the world rather than character progression. A game that's more about doing stuff and less about "me".
Always read the small print.
Ok some of you are saying you wouldn't play because you don't gain charater skills. Darkfall I don't think is a level up game, but it does have skills that level up. So technically its still a level based game.
So, you think that its not possible to have character growth without levels.
Doesn't sound like a rpg to me. Sounds more like a fps game with online multiplayer and premade chars. To make it interesting the devs would have to offer a huge amount of skills you could learn to flesh it out a bit.
You should change your title though. Leveless is different from what you describe which is more like progression-less. And while I do enjoy playing a game with no levels, I don't think I'd enjoy a game with no progression at all.
I think your the first to understand true levelless meaning. lol.
I did a long time ago it was called swg-pre-cu. Back then we had no levels it was all based on your skill. You hit the master levels the better you survived.
I would play a game that required you to live based on you skill set and you pure tenacity.
Mind you people I didn't say all aspects of the game would be like that. Crafting would still have skill gains. I guess the game would prolly have to be a sandbox type game for this to work. So you would have lots of different things players could create. I'm just talking purely about how the combat would be, not the whole game.
Levels are made a a simple way to handle that characters becomes better. They were invented for D&D as a really simple way that wouldn't require too much calculations or take long time.
For pen and paper RPGs are there many different alternatives both without levels or systems that partly use levels but flirts with skills as well (Palladium are probably the biggest).
In some P&P games you get XP for defeating oponents. In others you get a few XP after each time you play with maybe a few bonus XP if you did something exceptional. Others don't have XP but let you make a roll for each skill you used during the session, if you succed you raise yourself a few percentage. And there are more ways even.
You can easily make a MMO with say Runequests or Warhammer fantasy RPGs mechanics straight off, no levels but will still be fun.
What you talking about is however just letting everyone start at max level like a FPS game. It could still be fun but it is not on my top list.
No I wouldnt play this, it's too simplified. A "levelless" system does not have to be uber simple like you describe here. I dont like levels because they make low level chars insects and high level chars gods, it's a bit retarted imo, the contrast is way too big, even without expansions. A levelless system that would have ability and skill progression just like a system with levels would be better, the biggest difference being base stats and HPs being fixed, and gear giving bonus to you but not so excessively like current level based games where uber items beat skill 6 to 0.
You would have a game where you have progression, but skill would be more important than just gear / ability base of your char. Now you have stuff to pursue and collect while also be able to fight gankers with skill and be generally more "accessible" to content, pve, pvp, whatever. If some areas would need to be limited for/from new players, like it is done with "too high level for you" system in level based games, you could do it by quest prequisites, items, skills to get there and so on and so on, in levelless game. It would be really easy to remove levels but still have the ability/skill and gear progression, the difference between player efficiency just wouldnt be so annoyingly enormous and stupid like it is in level based games always
a skill based game with leveling skills is still a level based game, the only leveless games I have ever seen are fps. Most rts's these days even add in levels of a type. So I doubt we will ever see a truely leveless mmo, but it may move away from the idea of character levels. Or it may be we see more hybrids that require you to level x number of skills x number of times to level like the elder scrolls games.
Gaining a skill, skill point, or ability is not "leveling up" in my eyes. I guess it's a matter of an opinion what leveling is then, to me it is when a character simply just gets better in every way after a level up like it is done in just about every level based game, resulting the char to be uber powerful after a few dozen levels, usually becoming a demigod in the eyes of a low level char.
If you just get skills and abilities your char does not get tougher or hit harder, the char simply is more skilled having more variety in his toolbox. No demigod complex here.
No lvl, no DING! thats just booring and sad.
sounds like some ppl need to get their grind on.
I play levelless games all the time.
But I always like the anchor of a progression-heavy game I can sink time into and feel like it's accumulating permanent value of some kind.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Leveling up either through char level, or skill progression still creates stronger end game toons. So technically its still leveling up. They just go about it in different ways. If you have a toon thats maxed out his str stat say, and someone who just started the game 10 mins ago. The guy who worked all that time to max his str will pwn the new guy. Everyone keeps talking about how they want play skill based games. This is the only way I can think of where player skill would always be the only deciding factor in fights.