Sure it isnt gonna reinvent the genre but they are putting an emphasis on story and choice. They may not be reinventing the wheel but they arent claiming they are gonna do things that they wont deliever either.
What is GW2 claiming that they're going to do that they're not going to deliver?
... also, I'm not sure what phasing has to do with GW2, since the only phasing they appear to be using is on the crafting resource nodes.
Never said gw 2 was gonna have phasing although having a town be attacked and if u stop it or not is a form of phasing like it or not. just it gets made that way for everyone not just those done quest im assuming at least.
As for what they wont implement not sure they wont deliver but everyone expecting them to reinvent the mmo genre and lets fact it there are those that do expect just that are kidding themselves. sure they are making some new stuff. Although rifts dynamic content isnt that diffrent then what gw 2 will have. I u think so u are kidding yourself.
Sure they are getting rid of tinity but for me thats a downside. I love healer classes. Im just sayign at least anyone who follows tor knows what to expect . I have seen gw 2 fans say its gonna be a huge sandbox or change the whole way mmos are made from now on
These people are kidding themselves. Gw 1 wasnt a sandbox why do u think gw 2 will be?
It still amazed me that people still think this game will get millions. Pesonally, I thnk it will be lucky to have a million, maybe a million and a half. I don't think it is going to revolutionize anything considering there is nothing revolutionary about it. SWG never had millions of Starwars fans go play a Starwars game before, why would they do so now ? Just alot of hype, nothing more.
This game is different; If Bioweare were hyping this game it would be even worse they are not. Players are hyping the game due to the dire state of the MMO market.
SWG is not even in the same league as this game not even distinctly close. Bioware in itself will pull in millionsof KOTOR fans; Theres 8 months worth of single player game in this title before you even head down the line of all the full MMO content.
This game has size scale and if the variety is really in game then it will do well.
However bad it is it will be more fun than both WoW or SWG; neither are worth the time of day these days......
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Never said gw 2 was gonna have phasing although having a town be attacked and if u stop it or not is a form of phasing like it or not. just it gets made that way for everyone not just those done quest im assuming at least.
As for what they wont implement not sure they wont deliver but everyone expecting them to reinvent the mmo genre and lets fact it there are those that do expect just that are kidding themselves. sure they are making some new stuff. Although rifts dynamic content isnt that diffrent then what gw 2 will have. I u think so u are kidding yourself.
Sure they are getting rid of tinity but for me thats a downside. I love healer classes. Im just sayign at least anyone who follows tor knows what to expect . I have seen gw 2 fans say its gonna be a huge sandbox or change the whole way mmos are made from now on
These people are kidding themselves. Gw 1 wasnt a sandbox why do u think gw 2 will be?
What how is Dynamic Event kind of like phasing? The example you give is completely false, since they are not using phasing in Dynamic Events at all! Like is like saying completing a quest in LOTRO is like phasing....no it is not.
And how is Rifts Dynamic Events like GW2s Dynamic Events? OK let’s watch the Pax East panel and the Pax West Event panel part 1-10, and then tell me how they are alike! For one the events in Rifts do not spawn other events, while the Dynamic Events in GW2 chain off each other. Another reason they are different is that the Dynamic Events in GW2 scale and the ones in Rift do not. I am sure if you watch those videos you can see how they are not even close to being the same thing.
And as for some of the fans saying it is kind of a sandbox they could just be talking about how GW2 is different than ever theme park MMO being made right now. With things in the game that make characters level scale when you enter into lower level areas, too Dynamic Events scaling to how many players are in the event.
We get it you do not like GW2, that is fine you do not have to like the game! But stop making crap about it to make your game (TOR) look better! I do not spread disinformation about your TOR and I would correct someone that I see making up stuff about the game, so why do you feel it is alright to make stuff about GW2 and not stick to the facts. Or would be all right if I said Bioware turned Jedi into MMO clerics? That is the same thing you are doing with GW2, either learn the facts or just at least stop creating your own facts about the game.
Anyway we should stop talking about this and get this back on topic.
Never said gw 2 was gonna have phasing although having a town be attacked and if u stop it or not is a form of phasing like it or not. just it gets made that way for everyone not just those done quest im assuming at least.
As for what they wont implement not sure they wont deliver but everyone expecting them to reinvent the mmo genre and lets fact it there are those that do expect just that are kidding themselves. sure they are making some new stuff. Although rifts dynamic content isnt that diffrent then what gw 2 will have. I u think so u are kidding yourself.
Sure they are getting rid of tinity but for me thats a downside. I love healer classes. Im just sayign at least anyone who follows tor knows what to expect . I have seen gw 2 fans say its gonna be a huge sandbox or change the whole way mmos are made from now on
These people are kidding themselves. Gw 1 wasnt a sandbox why do u think gw 2 will be?
So, basically, we all have to hope for TOR to fail horribly in order to get sandbox MMOs?
Guild Wars 2 hasn't exactly released what's going on yet. Who knows? It just might be a good sandbox.
Sandbox MMOs are sopmething altogether different and SWTOR has nothing to do logically with sandbox. ( I will caveat that with exception to yet to be seen feature that may be associated with exploration and large land mass)
More Sanbox MMOs are dependent on the ability to develop to a lower subs base, and come up with something decent.
Totally different considerations not to be compared if any logic is applied.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
SWG is not even in the same league as this game not even distinctly close. Bioware in itself will pull in millionsof KOTOR fans; Theres 8 months worth of single player game in this title before you even head down the line of all the full MMO content.
This is wild speculation that you have absolutely no proof on! Yes they are a potential audience for TOR, but no one here has any data to know what the Knights of the Old Republic fans are going to do. For me the fact that I will never own Knights of the Old Republic 3,4,5,6,7, and 8 is a actually a big turn off. I do not want to have to rent the game monthly from Bioware so I can see the story. I would have rather had them make those as single player games, and make a completely different MMO. Of course that is just my opinion as one Knights of the Old Republic fan. But here is the rub your opinion is no more valid as mine, so we do not know how many this game will pull into MMOs. Will the fact that they will never be able to play another KOTR, besides the MMO, be enough to draw them in. I do not know, since I do not know why the 73% of gamers that are not playing MMOs are not currently playing one.
Do I think and hope they can pull in some so they can help add life to this genre, Yes. Do I know if Bioware is going to accomplish that, No! No one here does, we will not know that until the game launches and we see what the game maintains in subscription numbers.
SWG is not even in the same league as this game not even distinctly close. Bioware in itself will pull in millionsof KOTOR fans; Theres 8 months worth of single player game in this title before you even head down the line of all the full MMO content.
This is wild speculation that you have absolutely no proof on! Yes they are a potential audience for TOR, but no one here has any data to know what the Knights of the Old Republic fans are going to do. For me the fact that I will never own Knights of the Old Republic 3,4,5,6,7, and 8 is a actually a big turn off. I do not want to have to rent the game monthly from Bioware so I can see the story. I would have rather had them make those as single player games, and make a completely different MMO. Of course that is just my opinion as one Knights of the Old Republic fan. But here is the rub your opinion is no more valid as mine, so we do not know how many this game will pull into MMOs. Will the fact that they will never be able to play another KOTR, besides the MMO, be enough to draw them in. I do not know, since I do not know why the 73% of gamers that are not playing MMOs are not currently playing one.
Do I think and hope they can pull in some so they can help add life to this genre, Yes. Do I know if Bioware is going to accomplish that, No! No one here does, we will not know that until the game launches and we see what the game maintains in subscription numbers.
It's hardly wild speculation. It's simply what the developers have said their intent is. They've got a lot of money riding on this, and they're not about to throw away 150 million on 'wild speculation'..
Even Blizzard devs have stated their belief that SWTOR will draw in new players to the genre, bringing them from consoles.
So, his opinion actually does have more validity than yours.
It's hardly wild speculation. It's simply what the developers have said their intent is. They've got a lot of money riding on this, and they're not about to throw away 150 million on 'wild speculation'..
Even Blizzard devs have stated their belief that SWTOR will draw in new players to the genre, bringing them from consoles.
So, his opinion actually does have more validity than yours.
Oh so people spending money on a business venture is a means for validation of opinions. I did not know that I will have to tell all the businesses that startup and fail each year that their opinion was completely valid.
Of course Bioware is gambling they can pull in the Knights of the Old Republic fan base into MMOs, you do not go into a business to lose money, and you go into to make money! But that does not prove it is going to happen! So that statement does not add more validity to his opinion! Only TOR subscription numbers on release will do that.
I am assuming since you believe everything Bliizzard and Bioware tell you that you have sunk your life savings into EA stock for the TOR release. Come on dude what they said is completely valid, I want to see a picture of your EA stock with all the money you have invested in it.
It's hardly wild speculation. It's simply what the developers have said their intent is. They've got a lot of money riding on this, and they're not about to throw away 150 million on 'wild speculation'..
Even Blizzard devs have stated their belief that SWTOR will draw in new players to the genre, bringing them from consoles.
So, his opinion actually does have more validity than yours.
Oh so people spending money on a business venture is a means for validation of opinions. I did not know that I will have to tell all the businesses that startup and fail each year that their opinion was completely valid.
Of course Bioware is gambling they can pull in the Knights of the Old Republic fan base into MMOs, you do not go into a business to lose money, and you go into to make money! But that does not prove it is going to happen! So that statement does not add more validity to his opinion! Only TOR subscription numbers on release will do that.
I am assuming since you believe everything Bliizzard and Bioware tell you that you have sunk your life savings into EA stock for the TOR release. Come on dude what they said is completely valid, I want to see a picture of your EA stock with all the money you have invested in it.
BioWare's success in the gaming industry gives their opinion validity, especially when it is backed by others successful in the industry as well.
BioWare's success in the gaming industry gives their opinion validity, especially when it is backed by others successful in the industry as well.
As for your opinion? lol Yah, not that important.
HAHA, so this must mean Bioware has never lost money or made a bad decision before! Since according to you they made this statement and it is 100% true without any other possibility. And it must mean that the 73% of gamers that are not playing MMOs are wrong and Bioware and Blizzard are right.
I am still waiting for that picture of your EA stock, I want to see your life savings invested for the TOR release. After all you are saying they are 100% correct all the time, well then put your money were your mouth is and prove it.
So, basically, we all have to hope for TOR to fail horribly in order to get sandbox MMOs?
Agreed. I'm beginning to think that only independent studios will save us.
From what I have heard, if this game succeeds, it will be in spite of, not because of its linear storytelling format, and largely because it will ride on the coattails of the Star Wars franchise name.
Oh brother. /rolleyes
Star Wars Galaxies should have proven to you that just slapping Star Wars on it won't guarentee a successful MMORPG.
So, basically, we all have to hope for TOR to fail horribly in order to get sandbox MMOs?
Agreed. I'm beginning to think that only independent studios will save us.
From what I have heard, if this game succeeds, it will be in spite of, not because of its linear storytelling format, and largely because it will ride on the coattails of the Star Wars franchise name.
Oh brother. /rolleyes
Star Wars Galaxies should have proven to you that just slapping Star Wars on it won't guarentee a successful MMORPG.
The Star Wars name is enough to get it looked at, but if the game sucks it's certainly not going to keep people coming back. Fortunately, BioWare knows this and has succesfully used the Star Wars IP in the past.
BioWare's success in the gaming industry gives their opinion validity, especially when it is backed by others successful in the industry as well.
As for your opinion? lol Yah, not that important.
HAHA, so this must mean Bioware has never lost money or made a bad decision before! Since according to you they made this statement and it is 100% true without any other possibility. And it must mean that the 73% of gamers that are not playing MMOs are wrong and Bioware and Blizzard are right.
I am still waiting for that picture of your EA stock, I want to see your life savings invested for the TOR release. After all you are saying they are 100% correct all the time, well then put your money were your mouth is and prove it.
I might be wrong here, but where does gives their opinoin validity, say that they are 100% correct. It just means people follow what they say more because they tend to be a success. People just put more weight on what Bioware says because of their past success, they or at least most certainly me, dont' take their word for gospel, it just means when they say we plan to make a good game you'll enjoy we tend to say yeah i can see that based on their past game.
It's not a black or white, light on light off switch, it's a meter system and when theres is trust in gaming, Bioware's opinion is taken with more weight then a forum poster.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
SWG is not even in the same league as this game not even distinctly close. Bioware in itself will pull in millionsof KOTOR fans; Theres 8 months worth of single player game in this title before you even head down the line of all the full MMO content.
This is wild speculation that you have absolutely no proof on! Yes they are a potential audience for TOR, but no one here has any data to know what the Knights of the Old Republic fans are going to do. For me the fact that I will never own Knights of the Old Republic 3,4,5,6,7, and 8 is a actually a big turn off. I do not want to have to rent the game monthly from Bioware so I can see the story. I would have rather had them make those as single player games, and make a completely different MMO. Of course that is just my opinion as one Knights of the Old Republic fan. But here is the rub your opinion is no more valid as mine, so we do not know how many this game will pull into MMOs. Will the fact that they will never be able to play another KOTR, besides the MMO, be enough to draw them in. I do not know, since I do not know why the 73% of gamers that are not playing MMOs are not currently playing one.
Do I think and hope they can pull in some so they can help add life to this genre, Yes. Do I know if Bioware is going to accomplish that, No! No one here does, we will not know that until the game launches and we see what the game maintains in subscription numbers.
As both a MMO and SPG player. The fact that this will be a KOTOR 3,4,5,6......in a MMO format is huge. I can have my SPG level RPG and be online with friends and guild mates at the same time. No need to log into or buy multiple games to get different types of game play. I will just have to log into TOR.
One of the biggest reasons I am looking forward to TOR is the storytelling. That is a big plus for my SPG side and possibly some of the 73% of gamers not playing a MMO. Because lets face it, current MMO's suck at storytelling. That could be a big reason for not wanting to play a MMO.
On the storytelling of BW. Having a completly unique class story for all 8 classes is also huge for me. I can play the game from any point of view I want. A Jedi Warrior and Consular, Sith Warrior and Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, Imperial agent and Trooper. And not only will the story be based on each class from SW lore. But I can chose how to play each class. Light, Dark, Grey and mix and match for a unique story experience for me.
And this is why I hope and expect TOR to be successful. And hope that the genre will adopt the total package for future games. Even Sandbox games would be better with a story as part of the experience IMO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Ill admit one thing i dont know how rifts dynamic events and the dynamic events in gw 2 will be same or diffrent. I dont care about gw 2 not my game. I have no interest in playing it.
That said i can make just an uninformed opions on a game as half the people putting down tor do on here. Not so much fun to have to continually defend a game against unfounded opinions that are in fact totally false is it.
I just dont see how a world even that changes the world if u dont stop it like rifts in rift and a town on fire and if u don stop it town burns down in gw 2 is any diffrent ull have to educate me on that one.
That said anyone who really wants to play tor and is following it knows what kind of game tor is. We have no allusions to tor changing the way mmos are made. We know what it is and what it will contain.
The devs at tor have stated that planets are the size of 3-4 wow zones and thats the smallest planets. So the areas should be plenty big to explore.
I think gw 2 looks like its gonna be a fun game to play for most part just not my cup of tea. I am looking forwars to tor
I just get tired of some of the so called informed opinions that are like 1 yr behind the info train. From most expensive mmo ever stuff lol. Turrns out the 300 mil from ea to bioware was for mass effect and daragon age games coming out this year as well as tor. So anyone still spewing that as fact is way behind the times.
Also bioware has stated they have over 1.5 mil beta signups so ther are alot of people interested in this game. So saying they wont even maintain 1 mil subs when its a game based on replayability with all the mmo trappings any mmo has is just plain uninformed
It still amazed me that people still think this game will get millions. Pesonally, I thnk it will be lucky to have a million, maybe a million and a half. I don't think it is going to revolutionize anything considering there is nothing revolutionary about it. SWG never had millions of Starwars fans go play a Starwars game before, why would they do so now ? Just alot of hype, nothing more.
Um, actually, at one point SWG had 5 million open and paying accounts. Then of course, the NGE happened and everyone left.
It still amazed me that people still think this game will get millions. Pesonally, I thnk it will be lucky to have a million, maybe a million and a half. I don't think it is going to revolutionize anything considering there is nothing revolutionary about it. SWG never had millions of Starwars fans go play a Starwars game before, why would they do so now ? Just alot of hype, nothing more.
I will explain to you how this works , now first off all you take WoW a MMORPG that turned classic pause addicted players .
Into a 3rd person interactive semi envoirement (something no other MMO really succeeded)
2nd you take shootemup players who are loving hectic combat , and slow them down .
Something again no other mmorpg before did ,
This create a million dollars markets , that will set people up for more revolutionair system .
DCUO failed a bit to most of us old MMORPG cause of too action like , not enough things to do .
Maybe in the future all the kids who grown up , will see that as standard as MMO
But current market is themepark MMO questing , with WoW interface and tooltip and ease of play .
Now what more does people want , none linear boring quests , that is what SWTOR is set to deliver .
Done formula of success , nope sandboxes won´t come back , anyway future mmorpg will be dumber and dumb down and streamlined .
Same way this generation of gamers like simple games , while most older public want much more detail options and other stuff .
It is finding the right combination that the market is set for , SWTOR is set to deliver if it comes out this year .
If it comes out next year , they missed the boat , as simple as that , Rift proof how important timing is .
Would rift have been successfull if launched after Tera and SWTOR , no it wouldn´t have .
The timing in this market is vital , miss the timing , you end up instead of Million just down to 100k .
I think the MMO market is already well on its way to being dominated by microtransaction/F2P games anyway, the number of new F2P titles coming out is simply staggering and they cover so many genre's.
The Success or Failure of SWTOR probably wont affect F2P marketshare which is only going to increase because it appeals to people who dont want to pay subscription fees. F2P games are not competing with WoW for players because F2P players generally do not want to pay subscriptions & in many cases they do not want to even pay for the initial game client/box. I Think a lot more games will go the road that Global agenda has which is getting players to purchase the box then allowing free play without a subscription & maybe adding in microtransactions and charging a one time fee for expansion packs.
TOR has the IP behind it to compete with WoW however it is using the scifi genre not a fantasy genre which is important to note when comparing it to WoW. The things TOR is trying to do actually arent new or revolutionary (Story mode has been included in other MMORPG's already in the past 2 years) what it seems to be striving to do is taking all the best & brightest ideas from other games & fully imagining them and giving them much needed finesse and polish they may have been lacking in other titles.
That said the more I see of SWTOR the less interested I become, It looks too generic for my tastes and I dont think the replayability will be there.
It still amazed me that people still think this game will get millions. Pesonally, I thnk it will be lucky to have a million, maybe a million and a half. I don't think it is going to revolutionize anything considering there is nothing revolutionary about it. SWG never had millions of Starwars fans go play a Starwars game before, why would they do so now ? Just alot of hype, nothing more.
Um, actually, at one point SWG had 5 million open and paying accounts. Then of course, the NGE happened and everyone left.
I actually came across a VERY similar figure about a year back when I first found out about SWTOR and decided to research it some more. On accident I went to an article about SWG and the NGE and how the subscriptions dropped from over 5 million to less that 200K in less than 6 months. Then went on to say that at the time the article was written the sub numbers were drastically reduced from that (I don't remember the exact figure). So (IMHO) if SWG can pull in numbers like that mostly based on the IP alone, I see SWTOR having no problem pulling in a million subs after the first year if they deliver on their promises. Just a thought.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I think the MMO market is already well on its way to being dominated by microtransaction/F2P games anyway, the number of new F2P titles coming out is simply staggering and they cover so many genre's.
The Success or Failure of SWTOR probably wont affect F2P marketshare which is only going to increase because it appeals to people who dont want to pay subscription fees. F2P games are not competing with WoW for players because F2P players generally do not want to pay subscriptions & in many cases they do not want to even pay for the initial game client/box. I Think a lot more games will go the road that Global agenda has which is getting players to purchase the box then allowing free play without a subscription & maybe adding in microtransactions and charging a one time fee for expansion packs.
TOR has the IP behind it to compete with WoW however it is using the scifi genre not a fantasy genre which is important to note when comparing it to WoW. The things TOR is trying to do actually arent new or revolutionary (Story mode has been included in other MMORPG's already in the past 2 years) what it seems to be striving to do is taking all the best & brightest ideas from other games & fully imagining them and giving them much needed finesse and polish they may have been lacking in other titles.
That said the more I see of SWTOR the less interested I become, It looks too generic for my tastes and I dont think the replayability will be there.
F2P market will excist , cause it is publishers and developers interest cause majority of people like to throw money overboard. While others like to play for free .
There is nothing new about that market , it just people gotten used to virtual goods , wihile in the past people would declear us insane for paying real money , to buy none excistant goods , that can be deleted anytime .
Nowdays we pay for entertainment , thats what we do , do you honestly think without a paying audience all those pirated sites could excist .
TOR has the IP to compete with WoW but sadly it is set in SCI FI (the audience for SCI FI is always smaller somehow)
Example babylon 5 while awesome didn´t do as well as Star Gate (cause star gate people could identify themself beter with the situation)
Fantasy has the advangetage of that too , people are easily attracted to it , then space the final frontier .
Last comment is your opnion , but tons of people love playing Bioware games just for the story .
And the story part is what is causing most of the riots , when a story fails on Bioware game , its rated problem like DA2 showed , while any other product it doesn´t matter .
IF swtor succeed it forces other MMORPG to copy that none linear style of story telling .
Instead of exclamation mark , and get your quest . that is good for business .
It really doesnt matter if Tor suceeds nor fails. If it suceeds it will draw some wow people away. I heard Rift drew alot of Wow players away. I bet the upcoming mmorpgs will do the same. I myself think the whole wow format is getting boring and is outdated. Its time for the new. I personally dont think companies have the budget for Tor like games.
I suspect it will succeed @ : Story, Character, Customization, IP, Dialogue, Polish, Features, Popularity/Subs, Overall satisfaction, content delivery etc. I suspect it will fail somewhat @ : Combat, PvP formats. However some ppl will really like the combat so saying it will fail, is more it will be less exceptional here and maybe that means bland to other players where combat is a major mechanic in mmos.
2 dimes worth to the discussion. It will be a great game overall.
Comments
What is GW2 claiming that they're going to do that they're not going to deliver?
... also, I'm not sure what phasing has to do with GW2, since the only phasing they appear to be using is on the crafting resource nodes.
Never said gw 2 was gonna have phasing although having a town be attacked and if u stop it or not is a form of phasing like it or not. just it gets made that way for everyone not just those done quest im assuming at least.
As for what they wont implement not sure they wont deliver but everyone expecting them to reinvent the mmo genre and lets fact it there are those that do expect just that are kidding themselves. sure they are making some new stuff. Although rifts dynamic content isnt that diffrent then what gw 2 will have. I u think so u are kidding yourself.
Sure they are getting rid of tinity but for me thats a downside. I love healer classes. Im just sayign at least anyone who follows tor knows what to expect . I have seen gw 2 fans say its gonna be a huge sandbox or change the whole way mmos are made from now on
These people are kidding themselves. Gw 1 wasnt a sandbox why do u think gw 2 will be?
This game is different; If Bioweare were hyping this game it would be even worse they are not. Players are hyping the game due to the dire state of the MMO market.
SWG is not even in the same league as this game not even distinctly close. Bioware in itself will pull in millionsof KOTOR fans; Theres 8 months worth of single player game in this title before you even head down the line of all the full MMO content.
This game has size scale and if the variety is really in game then it will do well.
However bad it is it will be more fun than both WoW or SWG; neither are worth the time of day these days......
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
What how is Dynamic Event kind of like phasing? The example you give is completely false, since they are not using phasing in Dynamic Events at all! Like is like saying completing a quest in LOTRO is like phasing....no it is not.
And how is Rifts Dynamic Events like GW2s Dynamic Events? OK let’s watch the Pax East panel and the Pax West Event panel part 1-10, and then tell me how they are alike! For one the events in Rifts do not spawn other events, while the Dynamic Events in GW2 chain off each other. Another reason they are different is that the Dynamic Events in GW2 scale and the ones in Rift do not. I am sure if you watch those videos you can see how they are not even close to being the same thing.
And as for some of the fans saying it is kind of a sandbox they could just be talking about how GW2 is different than ever theme park MMO being made right now. With things in the game that make characters level scale when you enter into lower level areas, too Dynamic Events scaling to how many players are in the event.
We get it you do not like GW2, that is fine you do not have to like the game! But stop making crap about it to make your game (TOR) look better! I do not spread disinformation about your TOR and I would correct someone that I see making up stuff about the game, so why do you feel it is alright to make stuff about GW2 and not stick to the facts. Or would be all right if I said Bioware turned Jedi into MMO clerics? That is the same thing you are doing with GW2, either learn the facts or just at least stop creating your own facts about the game.
Anyway we should stop talking about this and get this back on topic.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic
Sandbox MMOs are sopmething altogether different and SWTOR has nothing to do logically with sandbox. ( I will caveat that with exception to yet to be seen feature that may be associated with exploration and large land mass)
More Sanbox MMOs are dependent on the ability to develop to a lower subs base, and come up with something decent.
Totally different considerations not to be compared if any logic is applied.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
This is wild speculation that you have absolutely no proof on! Yes they are a potential audience for TOR, but no one here has any data to know what the Knights of the Old Republic fans are going to do. For me the fact that I will never own Knights of the Old Republic 3,4,5,6,7, and 8 is a actually a big turn off. I do not want to have to rent the game monthly from Bioware so I can see the story. I would have rather had them make those as single player games, and make a completely different MMO. Of course that is just my opinion as one Knights of the Old Republic fan. But here is the rub your opinion is no more valid as mine, so we do not know how many this game will pull into MMOs. Will the fact that they will never be able to play another KOTR, besides the MMO, be enough to draw them in. I do not know, since I do not know why the 73% of gamers that are not playing MMOs are not currently playing one.
Do I think and hope they can pull in some so they can help add life to this genre, Yes. Do I know if Bioware is going to accomplish that, No! No one here does, we will not know that until the game launches and we see what the game maintains in subscription numbers.
If TOR changes anything, I will be extremely surprised.
LOL.
It's hardly wild speculation. It's simply what the developers have said their intent is. They've got a lot of money riding on this, and they're not about to throw away 150 million on 'wild speculation'..
Even Blizzard devs have stated their belief that SWTOR will draw in new players to the genre, bringing them from consoles.
So, his opinion actually does have more validity than yours.
Tor will change something...this i can assure you.
It will change that Bioware is not just a single player game company but a single and MMO game company.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Oh so people spending money on a business venture is a means for validation of opinions. I did not know that I will have to tell all the businesses that startup and fail each year that their opinion was completely valid.
Of course Bioware is gambling they can pull in the Knights of the Old Republic fan base into MMOs, you do not go into a business to lose money, and you go into to make money! But that does not prove it is going to happen! So that statement does not add more validity to his opinion! Only TOR subscription numbers on release will do that.
I am assuming since you believe everything Bliizzard and Bioware tell you that you have sunk your life savings into EA stock for the TOR release. Come on dude what they said is completely valid, I want to see a picture of your EA stock with all the money you have invested in it.
BioWare's success in the gaming industry gives their opinion validity, especially when it is backed by others successful in the industry as well.
As for your opinion? lol Yah, not that important.
HAHA, so this must mean Bioware has never lost money or made a bad decision before! Since according to you they made this statement and it is 100% true without any other possibility. And it must mean that the 73% of gamers that are not playing MMOs are wrong and Bioware and Blizzard are right.
I am still waiting for that picture of your EA stock, I want to see your life savings invested for the TOR release. After all you are saying they are 100% correct all the time, well then put your money were your mouth is and prove it.
Oh brother. /rolleyes
Star Wars Galaxies should have proven to you that just slapping Star Wars on it won't guarentee a successful MMORPG.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
The Star Wars name is enough to get it looked at, but if the game sucks it's certainly not going to keep people coming back. Fortunately, BioWare knows this and has succesfully used the Star Wars IP in the past.
I might be wrong here, but where does gives their opinoin validity, say that they are 100% correct. It just means people follow what they say more because they tend to be a success. People just put more weight on what Bioware says because of their past success, they or at least most certainly me, dont' take their word for gospel, it just means when they say we plan to make a good game you'll enjoy we tend to say yeah i can see that based on their past game.
It's not a black or white, light on light off switch, it's a meter system and when theres is trust in gaming, Bioware's opinion is taken with more weight then a forum poster.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
As both a MMO and SPG player. The fact that this will be a KOTOR 3,4,5,6......in a MMO format is huge. I can have my SPG level RPG and be online with friends and guild mates at the same time. No need to log into or buy multiple games to get different types of game play. I will just have to log into TOR.
One of the biggest reasons I am looking forward to TOR is the storytelling. That is a big plus for my SPG side and possibly some of the 73% of gamers not playing a MMO. Because lets face it, current MMO's suck at storytelling. That could be a big reason for not wanting to play a MMO.
On the storytelling of BW. Having a completly unique class story for all 8 classes is also huge for me. I can play the game from any point of view I want. A Jedi Warrior and Consular, Sith Warrior and Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, Imperial agent and Trooper. And not only will the story be based on each class from SW lore. But I can chose how to play each class. Light, Dark, Grey and mix and match for a unique story experience for me.
And this is why I hope and expect TOR to be successful. And hope that the genre will adopt the total package for future games. Even Sandbox games would be better with a story as part of the experience IMO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Ill admit one thing i dont know how rifts dynamic events and the dynamic events in gw 2 will be same or diffrent. I dont care about gw 2 not my game. I have no interest in playing it.
That said i can make just an uninformed opions on a game as half the people putting down tor do on here. Not so much fun to have to continually defend a game against unfounded opinions that are in fact totally false is it.
I just dont see how a world even that changes the world if u dont stop it like rifts in rift and a town on fire and if u don stop it town burns down in gw 2 is any diffrent ull have to educate me on that one.
That said anyone who really wants to play tor and is following it knows what kind of game tor is. We have no allusions to tor changing the way mmos are made. We know what it is and what it will contain.
The devs at tor have stated that planets are the size of 3-4 wow zones and thats the smallest planets. So the areas should be plenty big to explore.
I think gw 2 looks like its gonna be a fun game to play for most part just not my cup of tea. I am looking forwars to tor
I just get tired of some of the so called informed opinions that are like 1 yr behind the info train. From most expensive mmo ever stuff lol. Turrns out the 300 mil from ea to bioware was for mass effect and daragon age games coming out this year as well as tor. So anyone still spewing that as fact is way behind the times.
Also bioware has stated they have over 1.5 mil beta signups so ther are alot of people interested in this game. So saying they wont even maintain 1 mil subs when its a game based on replayability with all the mmo trappings any mmo has is just plain uninformed
Um, actually, at one point SWG had 5 million open and paying accounts. Then of course, the NGE happened and everyone left.
I will explain to you how this works , now first off all you take WoW a MMORPG that turned classic pause addicted players .
Into a 3rd person interactive semi envoirement (something no other MMO really succeeded)
2nd you take shootemup players who are loving hectic combat , and slow them down .
Something again no other mmorpg before did ,
This create a million dollars markets , that will set people up for more revolutionair system .
DCUO failed a bit to most of us old MMORPG cause of too action like , not enough things to do .
Maybe in the future all the kids who grown up , will see that as standard as MMO
But current market is themepark MMO questing , with WoW interface and tooltip and ease of play .
Now what more does people want , none linear boring quests , that is what SWTOR is set to deliver .
Done formula of success , nope sandboxes won´t come back , anyway future mmorpg will be dumber and dumb down and streamlined .
Same way this generation of gamers like simple games , while most older public want much more detail options and other stuff .
It is finding the right combination that the market is set for , SWTOR is set to deliver if it comes out this year .
If it comes out next year , they missed the boat , as simple as that , Rift proof how important timing is .
Would rift have been successfull if launched after Tera and SWTOR , no it wouldn´t have .
The timing in this market is vital , miss the timing , you end up instead of Million just down to 100k .
I think the MMO market is already well on its way to being dominated by microtransaction/F2P games anyway, the number of new F2P titles coming out is simply staggering and they cover so many genre's.
The Success or Failure of SWTOR probably wont affect F2P marketshare which is only going to increase because it appeals to people who dont want to pay subscription fees. F2P games are not competing with WoW for players because F2P players generally do not want to pay subscriptions & in many cases they do not want to even pay for the initial game client/box. I Think a lot more games will go the road that Global agenda has which is getting players to purchase the box then allowing free play without a subscription & maybe adding in microtransactions and charging a one time fee for expansion packs.
TOR has the IP behind it to compete with WoW however it is using the scifi genre not a fantasy genre which is important to note when comparing it to WoW. The things TOR is trying to do actually arent new or revolutionary (Story mode has been included in other MMORPG's already in the past 2 years) what it seems to be striving to do is taking all the best & brightest ideas from other games & fully imagining them and giving them much needed finesse and polish they may have been lacking in other titles.
That said the more I see of SWTOR the less interested I become, It looks too generic for my tastes and I dont think the replayability will be there.
I actually came across a VERY similar figure about a year back when I first found out about SWTOR and decided to research it some more. On accident I went to an article about SWG and the NGE and how the subscriptions dropped from over 5 million to less that 200K in less than 6 months. Then went on to say that at the time the article was written the sub numbers were drastically reduced from that (I don't remember the exact figure). So (IMHO) if SWG can pull in numbers like that mostly based on the IP alone, I see SWTOR having no problem pulling in a million subs after the first year if they deliver on their promises. Just a thought.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
F2P market will excist , cause it is publishers and developers interest cause majority of people like to throw money overboard. While others like to play for free .
There is nothing new about that market , it just people gotten used to virtual goods , wihile in the past people would declear us insane for paying real money , to buy none excistant goods , that can be deleted anytime .
Nowdays we pay for entertainment , thats what we do , do you honestly think without a paying audience all those pirated sites could excist .
TOR has the IP to compete with WoW but sadly it is set in SCI FI (the audience for SCI FI is always smaller somehow)
Example babylon 5 while awesome didn´t do as well as Star Gate (cause star gate people could identify themself beter with the situation)
Fantasy has the advangetage of that too , people are easily attracted to it , then space the final frontier .
Last comment is your opnion , but tons of people love playing Bioware games just for the story .
And the story part is what is causing most of the riots , when a story fails on Bioware game , its rated problem like DA2 showed , while any other product it doesn´t matter .
IF swtor succeed it forces other MMORPG to copy that none linear style of story telling .
Instead of exclamation mark , and get your quest . that is good for business .
It really doesnt matter if Tor suceeds nor fails. If it suceeds it will draw some wow people away. I heard Rift drew alot of Wow players away. I bet the upcoming mmorpgs will do the same. I myself think the whole wow format is getting boring and is outdated. Its time for the new. I personally dont think companies have the budget for Tor like games.
Edgar F Greenwood
I suspect it will succeed @ : Story, Character, Customization, IP, Dialogue, Polish, Features, Popularity/Subs, Overall satisfaction, content delivery etc. I suspect it will fail somewhat @ : Combat, PvP formats. However some ppl will really like the combat so saying it will fail, is more it will be less exceptional here and maybe that means bland to other players where combat is a major mechanic in mmos.
2 dimes worth to the discussion. It will be a great game overall.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem