I personally could care less if TOR tops WoW in subs, reviews, or any of that. As long as the game has a steady enough player base and subs to stay profitable and enough to add content to make my time with the game enjoyable, ill be more than happy. And id rather have half the subscription base of WoW, and none of the annoying community that its made up of (not everyone, but a pretty big majority), than to have 12 million subscribers.
Currently Playing : Rift, EQ2 Has Played: Anarchy Online, SWG(Pre NGE refugee), DAoC, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, CoV, Horizons, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, Aion, WoW, DCUO, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, LotRo, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, EQoA, ArchLord
It's star wars, of course their gona pull millions of players from wow, hell star wars is the reasona a vast number of people got into games in the first place, and that will not have been forgotten .
What is funny is we saw this same statement for Star Wars Galaxies back before it launched. It never hit the 1 million mark. Now that was back then and things were different, that is for sure, but just because a game is based on the Star Wars IP does not mean it'll drag in the players. Star Wars is a huge IP, but Star Wars has taken a beating by its fans over the years due to Lucas mucking up the lore and putting out one bad movie after another since Empire Strikes Back. So do not put all your eggs in a basket just yet.
SW:ToR is far from perfect and it has its share of issues that players will encounter.
While id like SW:ToR to be larger than WoW. It is what it is. I havent played the game yet. Only seen reviews on the game, and can only hope that it is 1/2 as good as i want it to be.
That said. WoW, even if it does become #2 to another game. Is not going any where. It like if another car company takes over Toyota as the #1 dealer. They arnt going to close their doors. Pack up shop and go home. I really hope that SW is a great game and people fall in love with it. But like anything else, the game will take time to either pull more players in and expand itself. Or lose people and dwindle away into the deepest darkest regions of space.
It's star wars, of course their gona pull millions of players from wow, hell star wars is the reasona a vast number of people got into games in the first place, and that will not have been forgotten .
What is funny is we saw this same statement for Star Wars Galaxies back before it launched. It never hit the 1 million mark. Now that was back then and things were different, that is for sure, but just because a game is based on the Star Wars IP does not mean it'll drag in the players. Star Wars is a huge IP, but Star Wars has taken a beating by its fans over the years due to Lucas mucking up the lore and putting out one bad movie after another since Empire Strikes Back. So do not put all your eggs in a basket just yet.
SW:ToR is far from perfect and it has its share of issues that players will encounter.
But this can be said for any IP. Even WoW. When it was launched even with only the 3 games before ti released i remember grumblings about how this was not correct or that said class was not supposed to do what ever. Now i cant give you any links or what not that was just a personal experiance with people that i played with.
Star Wars is a much larger IP (well was, is depends on who you are) and i do agree that it has been beated pretty bad over the years.
But I do think that BW was smart to be making the game in their own eara, for the fact that they can change things and make their own lore (to a degree)
No MMO ever is going to challenege WOW. its been 7 years now and it is getting boring.....give up. Just enjoy the MMO you play and stop this obsession with topping WOW.
I've been playing WoW on and off since the first open beta. While my guild has been waiting for new content to arrive, many of us have been playing rift. The other day, a few of us did a BWD run and I couldn't believe how much more dated the graphics looked to me.
You mention that WoW has been around 7 years. That's kind of the problem. It may continue to have the largest player base for a few more years, but the game is horrible to look at, and making insignificant changes to how the water looks doesn't really do much to alter that. Even Blizzard knows this, that's why they're working on a new MMO. The next couple of years will most likely give rise to a number of games that will challenge WoW. If you're an undeterred fanboy, good for you, but nothing lasts forever.
How you perceive graphics is very subjective. I think wow looks, plays and feels great still. The graphics have been vastly improved since the game first launched. If you pick up dated gear and compare it to newer gear the difference is clear. New character models have higher poly counts and more detailed textures. Anyway, I think the overall style and art direction is what makes good graphics. Of course, that is just my take. As I said earlier, it's very subjective and really says nothing about a game. It's just packaging.
Although your conclusion is sound. Nothing lasts forever and the wow challangers will still keep coming. No doubt.
They should be more concerned with making sure their game is polished when they launch because they were expected to launch in thie spring but as you see, that did not happen. I sense a great disturbance in the force...
Shrug. GW2 was expected to be released earlier and now will probably be released earliest in Fall if not in 2012, SWTOR's release is later than expected, stuff like that happens.
So far all the gameplay reports point towards the game being more polished than most MMO's in this stage, at least in the parts that are shown.
Originally posted by nimbuszero2
It doesn't look better than TERA Played some beta and the graphics + fluidity of animation is almost hard to believe when you first play it. If SW:TOR looked like that, the WoW slave ships would need to find a way to row themselves.
TERA looks pretty good without a doubt, although from what I saw it has the same phenomenon as Aion, namely that the character models are a lot better looking and more detailed than the environments. Not that the environments I saw in the footage were bad, they just weren't on the same level as the character models in TERA.
There was never a target date announced for Guild Wars 2. So not sure where you are getting this information from.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
How did you come to that conclusion? Sounds like your just guessing. Not a very compelling argument stating that chinese players are unaware of other MMORPGs outside Wow because they play from internet cafes.
SWTOR will get subs. Starwars is a very established IP so no problem.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
I don't thinkg advertising had as much to do with it as some people think. It may have got a few non-gamers to try WoW. But what really made things skyrocket is when that one non-gamer who bought the game told all of his friends how great it was, in my opinion. It was and is a great game. That has contributed to its success more than advertising ever could, I believe.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
How did you come to that conclusion? Sounds like your just guessing. Not a very compelling argument stating that chinese players are unaware of other MMORPGs outside Wow because they play from internet cafes.
SWTOR will get subs. Starwars is a very established IP so no problem.
I know it'll get subs, no matter how bad it is, purely because of the IP. Just like Star Wars Galaxies, just like WoW.
If you talk to the majority of people who have played WoW, they're not core gamers. They don't know MMORPGs exist. They play WoW cause they heard of it and they think its the neatest thing in the world. A few people I've talked to thought ONE GUY made WoW and runs it from his basement. They've never heard of EverQuest or LotRO. That's the gamers who have, people like us who come to this site are gamers. Just like the majority of people who own the Wii play Wiisports and little else, tehy're not gamers, they're casual folks who heard about the Wii and bought one. They're not about to play Gears of War too.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
I don't thinkg advertising had as much to do with it as some people think. It may have got a few non-gamers to try WoW. But what really made things skyrocket is when that one non-gamer who bought the game told all of his friends how great it was, in my opinion. It was and is a great game. That has contributed to its success more than advertising ever could, I believe.
Agreed. Blizzard hardly did any advertising in the beginning. Everyone I know started playing because of 'word-of-mouth' endorsements. That is more powerful than advertising ever will be. Why do you think a game like farmville has 7 times the playerbase than wow has?
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
given that SW:TOR is PC only too (inevitable given hardware limitations of consoles...) and that their (Bioware) most recent successes have largely been console based - Dragon age etc..released on both the xbox and Playstation.. and thats where the bulk of the sales were.. if you took the console sales out of the equation then the figures don't look quite so 'cheery' .. i don't know when it began.. but it does seem as though the companies success became more reliant on console sales than PC ones, and while im glad that SW:TOR is on the PC.. i think this is inevitably going to be the 'extra hurdle' that the game will have to clear.
It's star wars, of course their gona pull millions of players from wow, hell star wars is the reasona a vast number of people got into games in the first place, and that will not have been forgotten .
It may pull millions away from WoW for awhile or for a long time. The rest of your statment is false.
##Best SWTOR of 2011 Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011 Originally posted by daveospice "this game looks like crap?"
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
I don't thinkg advertising had as much to do with it as some people think. It may have got a few non-gamers to try WoW. But what really made things skyrocket is when that one non-gamer who bought the game told all of his friends how great it was, in my opinion. It was and is a great game. That has contributed to its success more than advertising ever could, I believe.
Agreed. Blizzard hardly did any advertising in the beginning. Everyone I know started playing because of 'word-of-mouth' endorsements. That is more powerful than advertising ever will be. Why do you think a game like farmville has 7 times the playerbase than wow has?
Where did you live? Blizzard did a lot of advertising for WoW before it launched. I mean a lot. I remember seeing huge cardboard cut-outs for it in gaming stores. They even had their own display racks with pre-orders available before it launched. Magazines where full of ads and there were the TV commercials as well. WoW was heavily advertised.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
I don't thinkg advertising had as much to do with it as some people think. It may have got a few non-gamers to try WoW. But what really made things skyrocket is when that one non-gamer who bought the game told all of his friends how great it was, in my opinion. It was and is a great game. That has contributed to its success more than advertising ever could, I believe.
Agreed. Blizzard hardly did any advertising in the beginning. Everyone I know started playing because of 'word-of-mouth' endorsements. That is more powerful than advertising ever will be. Why do you think a game like farmville has 7 times the playerbase than wow has?
Nope, here's more or less how it worked.
Blizzard spent about two solid years bombarding Arena net and EVERY news source with previews and beta builds and secret info about WoW. When it came out, people from DAOC and EQ and SWG went to check it out. Most got bored and left because its basically EverQuest except... easier. The people it did pull in were people from Starcraft and Warcraft and FPS games and other genres who played it and, like we all do the first time we play an MMO, "THAT'S SOOO COOOOOL" and then Blizzard started spamming EVERY website with ads about WoW, and eventually, with the massive amount of advertisement, and by hooking non MMO gamers, it became the mainstream title, and picked up self sustaining momentum. It's quite simple. So no, don't try to say WoW didn't advertise, it was the MOST advertised MMO EVER. Every website had banners and writeups and previews.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
I don't thinkg advertising had as much to do with it as some people think. It may have got a few non-gamers to try WoW. But what really made things skyrocket is when that one non-gamer who bought the game told all of his friends how great it was, in my opinion. It was and is a great game. That has contributed to its success more than advertising ever could, I believe.
WoW was advertised very heavily before it launched. Moreso than most other games. The key factors for what made WoW successful was, timing, built in fanbase(Diablo had all ready hooked most gamers so they knew Blizzard for this and the Warcraft franchise), and accessibility and advertising.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
How did you come to that conclusion? Sounds like your just guessing. Not a very compelling argument stating that chinese players are unaware of other MMORPGs outside Wow because they play from internet cafes.
SWTOR will get subs. Starwars is a very established IP so no problem.
I know it'll get subs, no matter how bad it is, purely because of the IP. Just like Star Wars Galaxies, just like WoW.
If you talk to the majority of people who have played WoW, they're not core gamers. They don't know MMORPGs exist. They play WoW cause they heard of it and they think its the neatest thing in the world. A few people I've talked to thought ONE GUY made WoW and runs it from his basement. They've never heard of EverQuest or LotRO. That's the gamers who have, people like us who come to this site are gamers. Just like the majority of people who own the Wii play Wiisports and little else, tehy're not gamers, they're casual folks who heard about the Wii and bought one. They're not about to play Gears of War too.
Wow was not really established before it took off. The warcraft series was successful before wow, but if you would have asked a non-gamer they wouldn't have a clue.
I agree that many probably don't know about other MMOs but we can only speculate. Most people I ever meet have played other MMOs prior to Wow.
But yeah, what is your point exactly? Do you think wow players would play other MMOs if they knew they existed? If so, why haven't the other devs been able to capture their attention?
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
How did you come to that conclusion? Sounds like your just guessing. Not a very compelling argument stating that chinese players are unaware of other MMORPGs outside Wow because they play from internet cafes.
SWTOR will get subs. Starwars is a very established IP so no problem.
I know it'll get subs, no matter how bad it is, purely because of the IP. Just like Star Wars Galaxies, just like WoW.
If you talk to the majority of people who have played WoW, they're not core gamers. They don't know MMORPGs exist. They play WoW cause they heard of it and they think its the neatest thing in the world. A few people I've talked to thought ONE GUY made WoW and runs it from his basement. They've never heard of EverQuest or LotRO. That's the gamers who have, people like us who come to this site are gamers. Just like the majority of people who own the Wii play Wiisports and little else, tehy're not gamers, they're casual folks who heard about the Wii and bought one. They're not about to play Gears of War too.
But yeah, what is your point exactly? Do you think wow players would play other MMOs if they knew they existed? If so, why haven't the other devs been able to capture their attention?
Of course, they'd enjoy AoC, LotRO, Rift, and all the other games that are pretty much identical to WoW. They just lack the momentum and marketing budget and mainstream name.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
I don't thinkg advertising had as much to do with it as some people think. It may have got a few non-gamers to try WoW. But what really made things skyrocket is when that one non-gamer who bought the game told all of his friends how great it was, in my opinion. It was and is a great game. That has contributed to its success more than advertising ever could, I believe.
Agreed. Blizzard hardly did any advertising in the beginning. Everyone I know started playing because of 'word-of-mouth' endorsements. That is more powerful than advertising ever will be. Why do you think a game like farmville has 7 times the playerbase than wow has?
Where did you live? Blizzard did a lot of advertising for WoW before it launched. I mean a lot. I remember seeing huge cardboard cut-outs for it in gaming stores. They even had their own display racks with pre-orders available before it launched. Magazines where full of ads and there were the TV commercials as well. WoW was heavily advertised.
I live in Sweden. They didn't advertise it more than any other games they made (diablo, sc). I remember the long queues to get Diablo 2. It sold out in store etc. I didn't see any newspaper ads, TV ads or the like for Wow. Not here in Sweden at least. The only reason I knew about Wow was because I was/is a diablo fan. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
How did you come to that conclusion? Sounds like your just guessing. Not a very compelling argument stating that chinese players are unaware of other MMORPGs outside Wow because they play from internet cafes.
SWTOR will get subs. Starwars is a very established IP so no problem.
I know it'll get subs, no matter how bad it is, purely because of the IP. Just like Star Wars Galaxies, just like WoW.
If you talk to the majority of people who have played WoW, they're not core gamers. They don't know MMORPGs exist. They play WoW cause they heard of it and they think its the neatest thing in the world. A few people I've talked to thought ONE GUY made WoW and runs it from his basement. They've never heard of EverQuest or LotRO. That's the gamers who have, people like us who come to this site are gamers. Just like the majority of people who own the Wii play Wiisports and little else, tehy're not gamers, they're casual folks who heard about the Wii and bought one. They're not about to play Gears of War too.
But yeah, what is your point exactly? Do you think wow players would play other MMOs if they knew they existed? If so, why haven't the other devs been able to capture their attention?
Of course, they'd enjoy AoC, LotRO, Rift, and all the other games that are pretty much identical to WoW. They just lack the momentum and marketing budget and mainstream name.
So why would anyone play AoC, LotRO or Rift if they are pretty much identical to WoW? Also, Lord of the rings is pretty mainstream IP. Moreso than warcraft i'd say.
EDIT: come to think of it, so is conan the barbarian.
Do you think wow players would play other MMOs if they knew they existed? If so, why haven't the other devs been able to capture their attention?
You know I know 5 people that I played WoW with. All have been playing it for over 5 years. One is my roomie. I have tried repeatedly to get her(and the others) to play other MMO's and like the others we game with, she see's no reason to leave WoW. Not stretching the truth or lying. She just has no interest whatsoever in leaving WoW, neither do any of the others(mind you I have tried to get them to play EVE, and many other newer releases). To them WoW has more than enough game left in it to keep them occupied for years to come. They sight the various raids, classes, achievements, and other things. Just to let you know, she has 6 level 85's, and 4 other toons between level 75 and 50! Many of the people she plays with have as many or more. That is right she plays 10 toons. The max you can have for a server. She has watched me play other games like Aion, Rift, WAR, AoC and she is like..."OK, so what is the big deal? Those games lack half the stuff WoW has, why would I even give those game a look?" She just does not care. Neither do the others. They just do not care. They are happy playing WoW. They play maybe 2 hours a night at most (if that even), so I think of them as casual players.
BTW - these people didn't get into online gaming until WoW. They didn't play EQ, AC, or DAoC, UO - none of them - just WoW.
Do you think wow players would play other MMOs if they knew they existed? If so, why haven't the other devs been able to capture their attention?
You know I know 5 people that I played WoW with. All have been playing it for over 5 years. One is my roomie. I have tried repeatedly to get her(and the others) to play other MMO's and like the others we game with, she see's no reason to leave WoW. Not stretching the truth or lying. She just has no interest whatsoever in leaving WoW, neither do any of the others(mind you I have tried to get them to play EVE, and many other newer releases). To them WoW has more than enough game left in it to keep them occupied for years to come. They sight the various raids, classes, achievements, and other things. Just to let you know, she has 6 level 85's, and 4 other toons between level 75 and 50! Many of the people she plays with have as many or more. That is right she plays 10 toons. The max you can have for a server. She has watched me play other games like Aion, Rift, WAR, AoC and she is like..."OK, so what is the big deal? Those games lack half the stuff WoW has, why would I even give those game a look?" She just does not care. Neither do the others. They just do not care. They are happy playing WoW. They play maybe 2 hours a night at most (if that even), so I think of them as casual players.
Exactly. What's wrong with that? You want casuals to try more games?
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lol Good. When Rift did it i thought it was stupid as hell.
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I personally could care less if TOR tops WoW in subs, reviews, or any of that. As long as the game has a steady enough player base and subs to stay profitable and enough to add content to make my time with the game enjoyable, ill be more than happy. And id rather have half the subscription base of WoW, and none of the annoying community that its made up of (not everyone, but a pretty big majority), than to have 12 million subscribers.
Currently Playing : Rift, EQ2
Has Played: Anarchy Online, SWG(Pre NGE refugee), DAoC, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, CoV, Horizons, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, Aion, WoW, DCUO, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, LotRo, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, EQoA, ArchLord
What is funny is we saw this same statement for Star Wars Galaxies back before it launched. It never hit the 1 million mark. Now that was back then and things were different, that is for sure, but just because a game is based on the Star Wars IP does not mean it'll drag in the players. Star Wars is a huge IP, but Star Wars has taken a beating by its fans over the years due to Lucas mucking up the lore and putting out one bad movie after another since Empire Strikes Back. So do not put all your eggs in a basket just yet.
SW:ToR is far from perfect and it has its share of issues that players will encounter.
While id like SW:ToR to be larger than WoW. It is what it is. I havent played the game yet. Only seen reviews on the game, and can only hope that it is 1/2 as good as i want it to be.
That said. WoW, even if it does become #2 to another game. Is not going any where. It like if another car company takes over Toyota as the #1 dealer. They arnt going to close their doors. Pack up shop and go home. I really hope that SW is a great game and people fall in love with it. But like anything else, the game will take time to either pull more players in and expand itself. Or lose people and dwindle away into the deepest darkest regions of space.
But this can be said for any IP. Even WoW. When it was launched even with only the 3 games before ti released i remember grumblings about how this was not correct or that said class was not supposed to do what ever. Now i cant give you any links or what not that was just a personal experiance with people that i played with.
Star Wars is a much larger IP (well was, is depends on who you are) and i do agree that it has been beated pretty bad over the years.
But I do think that BW was smart to be making the game in their own eara, for the fact that they can change things and make their own lore (to a degree)
How you perceive graphics is very subjective. I think wow looks, plays and feels great still. The graphics have been vastly improved since the game first launched. If you pick up dated gear and compare it to newer gear the difference is clear. New character models have higher poly counts and more detailed textures. Anyway, I think the overall style and art direction is what makes good graphics. Of course, that is just my take. As I said earlier, it's very subjective and really says nothing about a game. It's just packaging.
Although your conclusion is sound. Nothing lasts forever and the wow challangers will still keep coming. No doubt.
There was never a target date announced for Guild Wars 2. So not sure where you are getting this information from.
Almost the entirety of WoW's subscription base comes from people who are unaware the MMO market even exists. They play WoW cause they saw Mr. T talk about it on a commercial. 8 million of them play in internet cafes in China. WoW is its own bubble. SWTOR will get subs, sadly, but it won't hurt WoW. Especially considering how similar the 2 games apear to be.
i was talking about different games with a couple of guildies in stormwind yesterday.. when i mentioned Rift... they hadnt even heard of it.. which really surplrised me.. if a game as successful as Rift is.. and it is successful.. is largely unheard of.. i think Bioware will really need to push the boat out to get the message across about SW:TOR.. but.. im not even sure how much interest that will even generate amongst the regular WoW crowd.. and even then.. how many of those that are interested.. will not be able to do so.. because their parents refuse to pay for more than one MMO for them? .. its an upward struggle i think.. how well SW:TOR does.. will depend a hell of a lot on timing.. and a good launch.... not to mention a ton of pre publicity.. maybe they ought to hire Mr T.... he even does chocolate bars.. (or his lookalike does)
This is entirely true. What people seem to be missing is that advertisement really was the deciding factor that got WoW going. If people mention MMOs, they think WoW, because its the most casual mainstream hit out there. So if anyone gets curious, they try WoW. They don't know there's a genre, cause none of the other games have as big a marketing budget as Blizzard does. That's where WoWs original player base came from, outside the MMO market, that's why core MMO fans get angry with all the WoW clones, which aren't aimed at MMO players. I'd hardly call Rift a success yet, considering how much its population is dropping off, but it did have the most advertising I've seen in an MMO since WoW.
How did you come to that conclusion? Sounds like your just guessing. Not a very compelling argument stating that chinese players are unaware of other MMORPGs outside Wow because they play from internet cafes.
SWTOR will get subs. Starwars is a very established IP so no problem.
I don't thinkg advertising had as much to do with it as some people think. It may have got a few non-gamers to try WoW. But what really made things skyrocket is when that one non-gamer who bought the game told all of his friends how great it was, in my opinion. It was and is a great game. That has contributed to its success more than advertising ever could, I believe.
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I know it'll get subs, no matter how bad it is, purely because of the IP. Just like Star Wars Galaxies, just like WoW.
If you talk to the majority of people who have played WoW, they're not core gamers. They don't know MMORPGs exist. They play WoW cause they heard of it and they think its the neatest thing in the world. A few people I've talked to thought ONE GUY made WoW and runs it from his basement. They've never heard of EverQuest or LotRO. That's the gamers who have, people like us who come to this site are gamers. Just like the majority of people who own the Wii play Wiisports and little else, tehy're not gamers, they're casual folks who heard about the Wii and bought one. They're not about to play Gears of War too.
Agreed. Blizzard hardly did any advertising in the beginning. Everyone I know started playing because of 'word-of-mouth' endorsements. That is more powerful than advertising ever will be. Why do you think a game like farmville has 7 times the playerbase than wow has?
given that SW:TOR is PC only too (inevitable given hardware limitations of consoles...) and that their (Bioware) most recent successes have largely been console based - Dragon age etc..released on both the xbox and Playstation.. and thats where the bulk of the sales were.. if you took the console sales out of the equation then the figures don't look quite so 'cheery' .. i don't know when it began.. but it does seem as though the companies success became more reliant on console sales than PC ones, and while im glad that SW:TOR is on the PC.. i think this is inevitably going to be the 'extra hurdle' that the game will have to clear.
It may pull millions away from WoW for awhile or for a long time. The rest of your statment is false.
##Best SWTOR of 2011
Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011
Originally posted by daveospice
"this game looks like crap?"
Where did you live? Blizzard did a lot of advertising for WoW before it launched. I mean a lot. I remember seeing huge cardboard cut-outs for it in gaming stores. They even had their own display racks with pre-orders available before it launched. Magazines where full of ads and there were the TV commercials as well. WoW was heavily advertised.
Nope, here's more or less how it worked.
Blizzard spent about two solid years bombarding Arena net and EVERY news source with previews and beta builds and secret info about WoW. When it came out, people from DAOC and EQ and SWG went to check it out. Most got bored and left because its basically EverQuest except... easier. The people it did pull in were people from Starcraft and Warcraft and FPS games and other genres who played it and, like we all do the first time we play an MMO, "THAT'S SOOO COOOOOL" and then Blizzard started spamming EVERY website with ads about WoW, and eventually, with the massive amount of advertisement, and by hooking non MMO gamers, it became the mainstream title, and picked up self sustaining momentum. It's quite simple. So no, don't try to say WoW didn't advertise, it was the MOST advertised MMO EVER. Every website had banners and writeups and previews.
WoW was advertised very heavily before it launched. Moreso than most other games. The key factors for what made WoW successful was, timing, built in fanbase(Diablo had all ready hooked most gamers so they knew Blizzard for this and the Warcraft franchise), and accessibility and advertising.
Wow was not really established before it took off. The warcraft series was successful before wow, but if you would have asked a non-gamer they wouldn't have a clue.
I agree that many probably don't know about other MMOs but we can only speculate. Most people I ever meet have played other MMOs prior to Wow.
But yeah, what is your point exactly? Do you think wow players would play other MMOs if they knew they existed? If so, why haven't the other devs been able to capture their attention?
Of course, they'd enjoy AoC, LotRO, Rift, and all the other games that are pretty much identical to WoW. They just lack the momentum and marketing budget and mainstream name.
I live in Sweden. They didn't advertise it more than any other games they made (diablo, sc). I remember the long queues to get Diablo 2. It sold out in store etc. I didn't see any newspaper ads, TV ads or the like for Wow. Not here in Sweden at least. The only reason I knew about Wow was because I was/is a diablo fan. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered.
So why would anyone play AoC, LotRO or Rift if they are pretty much identical to WoW? Also, Lord of the rings is pretty mainstream IP. Moreso than warcraft i'd say.
EDIT: come to think of it, so is conan the barbarian.
You know I know 5 people that I played WoW with. All have been playing it for over 5 years. One is my roomie. I have tried repeatedly to get her(and the others) to play other MMO's and like the others we game with, she see's no reason to leave WoW. Not stretching the truth or lying. She just has no interest whatsoever in leaving WoW, neither do any of the others(mind you I have tried to get them to play EVE, and many other newer releases). To them WoW has more than enough game left in it to keep them occupied for years to come. They sight the various raids, classes, achievements, and other things. Just to let you know, she has 6 level 85's, and 4 other toons between level 75 and 50! Many of the people she plays with have as many or more. That is right she plays 10 toons. The max you can have for a server. She has watched me play other games like Aion, Rift, WAR, AoC and she is like..."OK, so what is the big deal? Those games lack half the stuff WoW has, why would I even give those game a look?" She just does not care. Neither do the others. They just do not care. They are happy playing WoW. They play maybe 2 hours a night at most (if that even), so I think of them as casual players.
BTW - these people didn't get into online gaming until WoW. They didn't play EQ, AC, or DAoC, UO - none of them - just WoW.
Exactly.
What's wrong with that? You want casuals to try more games?