God, the OP makes me feel like a freak, 'cause I actually really enjoy the RIft story and lore.
Note: I am only level 48 and I do take things slowly (playing since headstart) so I'm possibly a bit unusual in playstyle and that may make all the difference.
WARNING: some (small) spoilers follow.
To give some examples:
Scotty - the dwarf student who comes good. Well, I was surprised by how much I enjoyed meeting Scotty in the different zones, following his progress and the ceremony in Sanctum was far from KILL, KILL, KILL as the OP likes to emphasise.
Marshall Kain - when Kain took a swing at me I was genuinely surprised (I had suspected something would happen there but I was still a bit shocked when he did it lol) and something about the loyalty of his troops when he really goes bad was touching.
Defiant versus Guardian - I find this division more interesting than the typical racial alliance versus racial alliance.
The Endless Court - I've not seen that much of this group but in concept I think they work as a "scary" enemy. The first time I saw the Eye of Regulos I had one of those shivery moments.
Ascended, Rifts and Dragons - overall I think the big concepts in the lore are decent. It is nice to have lore explain why you are special and why you can die a lot. I thought it was neat when I got to Stillmoor (I think that is the name) my character kind of recognised the land because that is where I "originially" died.
---
I do think it can strongly depend on how "open" you are to enjoying Rift. Perhaps there is a kind of tipping point where you either start to get into the game and the more you learn the more you appreciate the world.
One criticism. There are way too many quests and too many of these are so completely mundane and dull that you are better off not doing them - they leave a bad taste in my opinion. This is especially true if you participate in Rifting and Defending - you get a lot of xp from doing this. So, I focus on the story quests and skip a lot of the normal quests.
God, the OP makes me feel like a freak, 'cause I actually really enjoy the RIft story and lore.
Trust me, you are not the freak in this equation... Yes, Rift is a lot of what people complain about. It is very much your standard themepark MMOG with a couple of interesting twists. It never claimed to be anything else and in fact went out of it's way to make that clear. Unfortunately some people can't see the forest through the trees.
------------------------- "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Rift is easy to pick up - you already pretty much know the mechanics and how to move through the game if you've played any mmo in recent history. You may find it a perfect combination from past games you've played.
Rift is casual friendly with the option of playing it hardcore.
Rift is a good alternative if your major gripe with WoW were the graphics - Rift has a more traditional fantasy art direction.
Rift is stable and polished with frequent updates.
Rift has a twist to its class system.
Rift has a twist with its rift element.
Rift good populations on most servers.
However......
Pick you server carefully - some are worse than others, but server transfers are incoming.
The rifts function almost exactly like WAR's pq's - if you didn't like them, you probably won't like these.
The class system still boils down to the holy trinity with the sporadic support class needed.
Rift is new and has the content to show it- give it some time if you want to play it hardcore with endless content and/or know if you play it hardcore you will be taking a break after a couple of months because you're done....
If you hate WoW for its quest system, its end game and its gear grind.....you probably won't like this.
Rift can be played hardcore, but as stated above, youll run out of stuff to do relatively quickly.
Rift may feel so much like those other games you've played you may walk away with 'been there done that'. You may find it the world's most insipid clone.
I posted this in another thread but I think it is apt for this thread too. There are hundreds of thousands that have positive impressions of this game. There are probably twice or more than that who have a polar opposite opinion. I believe this is true for all games, even WoW- for the 10 mil + that love it, I bet 20 mil + hate or have grown to hate it.
I really truly believe the only way to know is to try for yourself.
And, as I've said before, I think we should all commend Trion for proving it is possible to release a game with polish and stabilty. The bar is now raised - - -
_________________________________
And to comment specifically to the OP; I would argue that Rift has vastly more 'systems' then EQ had at release. I would also remind the OP that people maxed their toons and gear in EQ within the first 6 months also. And lastly, for one to assume that an mmo can release with more content and more 'systems' then games which have been live for 5+ years is unreasonable at best and ludicrous at worst.
By now we should all understand that games should focus on quality at release and not quantity. In the last generation we complained about the crappy performance at launch, as I alluded to earlier, the fact that argument isn't being heard for this game shows industry improvement imho.
I enjoyed Rift a lot for the first three months since head start then it became boring during the first event it was fun everyone was taking part in closing death rifts and collecting currency then the second event was more grindy collect 80 eggs daily i.e. closing 20 earth rifts.... and i stopped taking part. Now the water rift events same bunch of grind quest. Also completed 200 artifact set now they added more sets, more grind.
gear grinding as only means of character progression, I hope are nearing the end. How do games like AC and EQ have post cap character customization in 1999, while games of today, only focus on gear, gear, gear
whether its raiding, dungeons, pvp, or faction grinding its all the same result, more gear, give me a game where I can improve my character in multiple ways.
AoC and EQ2 have AA, Alternate Advancement, a different way of progressing your character at level cap besides gear.
Originally posted by metatronic
By the sounds of it you never experienced anything like swg or a real sandbox game so all you know is what blizzard showed you.. which is what rift copied into a new game engine with different story and rifts.. it is damn near a carbon copy of wow.
You may have your sandbox dreams, but they're still dreams if you ignore the reality that themepark design has by far had the largest populations and the most successful MMO's (financially and in popularity).
Originally posted by Tardcore
Well first I'd like to apologise in advance as this post will seem harsh, but I feel I need to tell you this, without sugar coating it, for your own good.
How many times do you need to stick your hand in a fire before you learn not to get burned, Elikal?
First you decide the game sucks in beta and won't play. Fine that is your choice more power to you.
Then for some reason you dicide to play any way. Unsuprisingly you decide again the game sucks and feel the need to come here and complain your head off why the game sucks and why you are quitting.
Now against all logic here you are again, first blaming others for your own impulse control issues, and lack of good judgement when it comes to MMOs, and second, filling the forum with more pointless "this game sux" posts that we've heard from you time and time again.
Enough is freaking enough. What you like or dislike, and what you decide to play or not play is completely your business. However if you can't find the self discpline to avoid games you don't like when you should already know better, please stop coming here and bending our ear about it. You have flip flopped on this game so many times your opinion of it is completely inconsequential. Anything else you have to say is just self serving drama, which has no place on these game discussion forums. If you want to share your every thought with the world, I'd advise you start your own blog page, and leave the game forums to those of us who want to discuss the game itself and not just to publicly air our newest meltdown.
And this.
Sorry, Elikal, but your continuous rants and gaming experiences are starting to sound... masochistic. I mean, if after so many times having bumped your head to the same wall making the same mistake over and over... well, it starts to sound as if you'll never learn
As for Rift itself, it's a rather well done and polished WoW-style themepark MMORPG with a few twists of its own like rifts and flexible classes.
It's a far smaller world than WoW. It has better graphics than WoW. It doesn't have as much alt replayability as other MMO's have. It does have a dedicated, responsive dev team, more than most others MMO's.
If people have grown burnt out on WoW-style themepark MMO's or can only like sandbox or non-themepark MMO's, then obviously Rift is not for them, no need to even look in these forums.
If people can still enjoy WoW-style themepark MMO's, then Rift is a good other choice and a change of pace from the MMO they've been playing before, for at least a couple of months.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
God, the OP makes me feel like a freak, 'cause I actually really enjoy the RIft story and lore.
Trust me, you are not the freak in this equation... Yes, Rift is a lot of what people complain about. It is very much your standard themepark MMOG with a couple of interesting twists. It never claimed to be anything else and in fact went out of it's way to make that clear. Unfortunately some people can't see the forest through the trees.
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
No, really, did they say they were launching a copy paste, repetative, generic, bland, small world, lack of content, fast leveling, lackluster PvP MMO that would be steathly shutting down 38 servers 4 months after launch?
I wonder do any of those guys in the trailer play now or were they just actors in the first place, hmmm!
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
God, the OP makes me feel like a freak, 'cause I actually really enjoy the RIft story and lore.
Trust me, you are not the freak in this equation... Yes, Rift is a lot of what people complain about. It is very much your standard themepark MMOG with a couple of interesting twists. It never claimed to be anything else and in fact went out of it's way to make that clear. Unfortunately some people can't see the forest through the trees.
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
No, really did they say they were launching a copy paste, generic, bland, fast leveling, lackluster PvP game that would be steathly shutting down 38 servers 4 months after launch.
I wonder do any of those guys in the trailer play now or were they just actors in the first place, hmmm!
Who cares whether they play now, as far as I see it those were normal players who gave their own opinion with permission of Trion, if that's how they saw the game they played then that's how it is to them.
Besides, they weren't that far wrong:
'complete', yep, it does have all if not most of the regular stuff seen in AAA themepark MMO's, and let's be honest, bar 1 or 2 exceptions most of the current AAA MMORPG's are themepark MMO's.
'next gen', their server technology and dynamic PvE content is definitely a step forward from the current status.
'dynamic', yep dynamic PvE content is ingame.
The fact that some find it copy paste and generic, well, that's opinion too, theirs, but it's not how everyone feels like it: not everyone has gone completely burnt out on themepark gameplay that they can't enjoy anything that reminds them of it anymore.
It was their subjective opinion and viewpoint, and objectively looking at it, they had a point and enough base to say what they did.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Few months ago you repeatedly posted rants against Rift... So my question is, did you really attempt to give this game a chance, or did you force yourself into it stating that you hate the game before even the end of the installation process?
I've got nothing against you or what not, I just wonder why some like to harvest negativity in public forums when they dislike a game.
I gave it a real chance. But when the second live event hit with lots of fanfare and found out it was LITTERLY and EXACTLY the same as the previous Live event. Collect 7 of this in Sanctum and go kill stuff in Rifts for currency. I got burned out quickly and fed up.
I mean... is this all they can come up with as Live event? Just recycling over and over the EXACT same, just with a different mob or different object to collect.
It is just so uninspiring and totally generic. It's not even funny.
That's why I still play and enjoy EverQuest 2. Eventho it's various PR dissasters and mistakes over the years.... it is hands down still the best PVE themepark MMO out there.
Nothing beats the Live events and Story questlines like in EverQuest 2. (except LOTRO). Not to mention all the various stuff you can do.
Few months ago you repeatedly posted rants against Rift... So my question is, did you really attempt to give this game a chance, or did you force yourself into it stating that you hate the game before even the end of the installation process?
I've got nothing against you or what not, I just wonder why some like to harvest negativity in public forums when they dislike a game.
I gave it a real chance. But when the second live event hit with lots of fanfare and found out it was LITTERLY and EXACTLY the same as the previous Live event. Collect 7 of this in Sanctum and go kill stuff in Rifts for currency. I got burned out quickly and fed up.
I mean... is this all they can come up with as Live event? Just recycling over and over the EXACT same, just with a different mob or different object to collect.
It is just so uninspiring and totally generic. It's not even funny.
That's why I still play and enjoy EverQuest 2. Eventho it's various PR dissasters and mistakes over the years.... it is hands down still the best PVE themepark MMO out there.
Nothing beats the Live events and Story questlines like in EverQuest 2. (except LOTRO). Not to mention all the various stuff you can do.
Pfff... I was playing EQ2 before I cottoned on to Rift and I loathed it. Talk about lonely questing. The world was too big and largely empty of players. And when I did see another player they didn't react to me and didn't want to group and it just meant it took longer to complete a quest.
And you want to talk bland and generic? Well that's how I would describe EQ2. I was completely and utterly underwhelmed. It felt completely pointless. It felt absolutely souless.
Rift was the opposite experience for me and the DE system made all the difference.
Look, bash Rift all you want guys. Doesn't change that it is the most successful MMO we've had for a long time and a great many people think it is fantastic fun.
Think it's time some of the people on this forum took a break from gaming, MMO's in particular.
Yup RIFT isn't the next coming, but it's still a lot of fun, especially if you get in with a good guild who are happy to take us slower levelers on a first T1 dungeon run.
And yes I'd love to see another main stream MMO try a crafting system as complex as SWG but just can't see it happening at the moment, but maybe in the future.
If any of you has fun with Rift, by all means, thats fine with me! I don't want to convert you! Really.
However, I see Rift is so narrowed down in what it's gameplay contains. It is just kill stuff, end of story. I mean, it really has some good moments, and levelling from, 1-50 the first time and the first, say 10 or 20 invasions were fun. It's just... SO SHORT lived. I don't understand how anyone can make such a limited gameplay system?
It's a pity, and the demise of SWG has brought me again to see in sharp contrast what I miss. Some *additional* stuff other than "go be a hero, save the galaxy and kill 100 of X". Which is fun, really, but not ALL THE TIME and ONLY THAT. It's like going into a restaurant which only has Schnitzel. No salad, no potatoes, no rice, no other meat, just Schnitzel. A very good Schnitzel, no doubt. But nothing else. How often would YOU go there? *shrug*
Sigh, well maybe the MMO development is leaving me behind. It goes a direction more and more simplified and streamlined I can't enjoy for more than a brief time. I asked for a real dinner and I got a Burger. A good Burger, but just a Burger. What I noticed is, that my stays in MMOs have shrunk with every new MMO. Now my time is often just counted in WEEKS, when long ago I used to stay 4-5 years!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Really. Just stay away from it. I was dumb enough to let some friends talk me into coming back. You know "oh look so much changed" trash.
You know, Rift is in a way the end and the lowest common nominator of MMOs. Look at UO, EQ and SWG to see how it began. As a vast, complex idea with many many subsystems. Especially these days as SWG closes, you see what a vast collection of systems a MMO once was. And it seems as if with each new MMO, what was a MMo was less and less. Until Rift is the most minimal definition. Kill stuff. That's it. Yes it has crafting. But I'll be damned it THAT is crafting at all! It's just some figleaf replacement for crafting! There is really NOTHING but kill X of Y. It is the finality and ending of the downward spiral. A spiral greatly accelerated by WOW.
You see, all Trion adds now is a copy of the same event. Find 7 of X in Sanctum as daily and exchange it for shells, coins whatevers. Every invasion is exactly the same. And no matter how they rename the "events" it is always the one same mechanic of kill/gather X of Y. Nothing else. The vastness of game possiblities of SWG or UO is a forgotten shadow now. And while games like LOTRO at least had SOME other stuff to do than kill kill kill.., this has nothing else. No peaceful planting of crops, no housing, no music system, nothing. People only run run run and kill kill kill. I really LOATHE this development. And you see, whereas LOTRO and WOW added these "token collection" way to waste the time of players with minimal effort after they had CONSIDERABLE other content, Rift starts it already, when it is new and while Rift is VERY small and limited content wise. And what do they add? A raid many won't ever see and another token collection quest. Copy paste copy paste.
And the rest? Nothing to write home about. And handful of dungeon you grind OVER and OVER and OVER called "endgame" and one of the damn WORST PVP I have seen in some time. FOUR arenas with all the letdowns arena PVP always has. (Meaning, it sucks. Only OPEN world pvp is real. Why it has none like castle sieges or what is beyond me.) THIS cheap PVP could be stitched together with an editor by a few programmers in a long weekend!
I am so disappointed by this game. It is SO dull with it's endless hectic, like in Tabula Rasa, there is no rest, no calm story moments, no civilization you FEEL you want to fight for, nothing. Just endless spawns of Rifts tossed at you. Always the same drill. I am so done with these kill focussed MMOs, where essentially killing things ALL THE DAMN TIME is the ONLY thing there! I don't WANT that! I want MMOs like SWG! Like UO! WORLDS, not some frigging kill park!
Sigh. Maybe Arch Age can bring that back, since I kinda doubt SWTOR or GW2 will be anything but kill kill kill with a nice wrap around.
Sorry if that offends you, but I just realized Rift is just a very simplistic and mediocre game. I am just tired wasting my time on trash. Shiny wears off fast. And there is just no fundament to remedy it. Not at all.
/rant over
okay so if i replace RIFT with WoW it's the same rant.
wow has a soul.... otherwise, ya
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
God, the OP makes me feel like a freak, 'cause I actually really enjoy the RIft story and lore.
Trust me, you are not the freak in this equation... Yes, Rift is a lot of what people complain about. It is very much your standard themepark MMOG with a couple of interesting twists. It never claimed to be anything else and in fact went out of it's way to make that clear. Unfortunately some people can't see the forest through the trees.
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
No, really did they say they were launching a copy paste, generic, bland, fast leveling, lackluster PvP game that would be steathly shutting down 38 servers 4 months after launch.
I wonder do any of those guys in the trailer play now or were they just actors in the first place, hmmm!
Who cares whether they play now, as far as I see it those were normal players who gave their own opinion with permission of Trion, if that's how they saw the game they played then that's how it is to them.
Besides, they weren't that far wrong:
So if you are close to be right but not quite right you are still right and not wrong, yep I get that logic.
'complete', yep, it does have all if not most of the regular stuff seen in AAA themepark MMO's, and let's be honest, bar 1 or 2 exceptions most of the current AAA MMORPG's are themepark MMO's.
The game lacks many things you'd expect in a "world class AAA MMO" like deep crafting that is useful from the start, EQ2, LotRO, Vanguard, PotBS have this. World PvP that actually has meaning where you can control and fight over meaningful objectives, Lineage 2, DAoC, Aion, Perfect World, Aika all have this, multiple starting areas that make playing a specific race meaningful, WoW, LotRO, EQ2, EQ etc... have this I could go on but you get the point I'm sure.
'next gen', their server technology and dynamic PvE content is definitely a step forward from the current status.
Explain this "next gen" server tech that is so great that everything they have done with it is just larger versions of whats already in the game.
'dynamic', yep dynamic PvE content is ingame.
This has been discussed to death and no-one has really be able to defend this claim properly, the so called dynamic events are just set scenario's that are set off at a random intervals, nothing dynamic about that I'm afraid.
The fact that some find it copy paste and generic, well, that's opinion too, theirs, but it's not how everyone feels like it: not everyone has gone completely burnt out on themepark gameplay that they can't enjoy anything that reminds them of it anymore.
I feel that you are underestimating the amount of people who see Rift exactly like this, a generic and uninspiring game, they have removed 30+ servers from the game already after 4 months becaues the numbers are not there and they'll be more of this over the coming year, many people got caught up in the hype and took a while to realise this, but it shows with the lack of hard sub numbers being released and the server shutdowns that people are leaving this "World class next gen MMO"
It was their subjective opinion and viewpoint, and objectively looking at it, they had a point and enough base to say what they did.
Answers in yellow.
Maverick you really are starting to sound like an MMO apologist, you post some intelligent stuff but sometimes you seem to feel the need to defend a game if there is a significant amount of negativity levied against it, some games deserve the negativity, Rift some don't World Of Warcraft.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
Who cares whether they play now, as far as I see it those were normal players who gave their own opinion with permission of Trion, if that's how they saw the game they played then that's how it is to them.
Besides, they weren't that far wrong:
So if you are close to be right but not quite right you are still right and not wrong, yep I get that logic.
I was being euphemistic, 'not that far wrong' should be interpreted 'they made valid points and they were right in what they said, subjectively speaking'
'complete', yep, it does have all if not most of the regular stuff seen in AAA themepark MMO's, and let's be honest, bar 1 or 2 exceptions most of the current AAA MMORPG's are themepark MMO's.
The game lacks many things you'd expect in a "world class AAA MMO" like deep crafting that is useful from the start, EQ2, LotRO, Vanguard, PotBS have this. World PvP that actually has meaning where you can control and fight over meaningful objectives, Lineage 2, DAoC, Aion, Perfect World, Aika all have this, multiple starting areas that make playing a specific race meaningful, WoW, LotRO, EQ2, EQ etc... have this I could go on but you get the point I'm sure.
Let's skip the 'oldschool'/ sandbox blabla nonsense because it's giving me headaches, including the MMO homeless people who keep whining about it, shall we?
Looking at the AAA themepark model, which happened to include I think 8-9 out of the 10 currently most popular MMORPG's: crafting, open world pvp, arena pvp, quest based leveling, raids, dungeons, all the usual stuff is in there, with Rift's own little to bigger features like Collections and dynamic PvE content. Bottomline however: Rift has all the core features that the vast majority of the top AAA MMORPG's have, so yes, in that way it's complete.
'dynamic', yep dynamic PvE content is ingame.
This has been discussed to death and no-one has really be able to defend this claim properly, the so called dynamic events are just set scenario's that are set off at a random intervals, nothing dynamic about that I'm afraid.
If you can't see the difference between static PvE content and what the rifts add to the PvE environment, then you've either shut your brain off, or you have become so blinded/disgusted by Rift or maybe even WoW style themepark MMO's in general that you refuse to warrant any merit to the difference the additional feature of rifts brings into the gameplay. Well, if denial or selective perception is your thing, that's your fetishism, not mine is all I can say. I don't have to worship or deny the limitations of the rifts implementation into Rift's gameworld to still be able to acknowledge the distinction such a feature brings from the older, current MMO's. I just have to have my eyes open and use my mind and common sense.
The fact that some find it copy paste and generic, well, that's opinion too, theirs, but it's not how everyone feels like it: not everyone has gone completely burnt out on themepark gameplay that they can't enjoy anything that reminds them of it anymore.
I feel that you are underestimating the amount of people who see Rift exactly like this, a generic and uninspiring game, they have removed 30+ servers from the game already after 4 months becaues the numbers are not there and they'll be more of this over the coming year, many people got caught up in the hype and took a while to realise this, but it shows with the lack of hard sub numbers being released and the server shutdowns that people are leaving this "World class next gen MMO"
Shrug. There were 99 servers with close to a million players who have bought Rift now, it has had a player retention that's better than a WAR, AoC or DCUO and those who leave don't leave as embittered or spiteful as a lot of the ones are who left WAR, AoC or STO. Looking at player activity trend figures right now (in various monitoring tools) I'd guess they still manage to hold close to half the player numbers that they had in the launch weeks. That's pretty good. Not the best it could have been, but still better than most other MMO launches of the past years, especially it's pretty good considering that it comes from a new unknown company and it has no large IP behind it.
It was their subjective opinion and viewpoint, and objectively looking at it, they had a point and enough base to say what they did.
Answers in yellow.
Maverick you really are starting to sound like an MMO apologist, you post some intelligent stuff but sometimes you seem to feel the need to defend a game if there is a significant amount of negativity levied against it, some games deserve the negativity, Rift some don't World Of Warcraft.
Heh, imagine that, I almost forgot this thread. Answers in blue.
As for the rest, pretty observant of you, but to be more accurate, besides me posting just for fun and entertainment, you'll see me very often post on arguments that I find either illogical, contrary to facts or common sense or reason, or extremely colored.
On these MMORPG.COM forums where a lot of ex-MMO gamers hang out, those who can't find enjoyment in current MMO's anymore, the jaded, the burnt out, the embittered, and those who favor sandbox MMO's or have grown an aversion towards current WoW style themepark MMO's, it just happens that those reason-defying arguments are for a far larger part used by those groups than by fans of various MMO's or those who can still enjoy current MMO's. More sensationalism and illogic is dealt by MMO bashers, haters and critics than by MMO fans and proponents. Really, that's actually all there is to it.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Been playing the free trial for 2 days now , the game is polished and runs smooth. although at the same time i catch myself dosing off playing it. Plus i havent seen to many players..could be because im the noob zone under lvl 20 , but the game feels empty especialy for a newer game.
not saying its a bad game but at this point in time..Buying the game is out of the question ..hopefully itll pick up before i see some kinda trial restriction.
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
Who cares whether they play now, as far as I see it those were normal players who gave their own opinion with permission of Trion, if that's how they saw the game they played then that's how it is to them.
Besides, they weren't that far wrong:
So if you are close to be right but not quite right you are still right and not wrong, yep I get that logic.
I was being euphemistic, 'not that far wrong' should be interpreted 'they made valid points and they were right in what they said, subjectively speaking'
Sentiment is a difficult thing to get across on the internet so I can only take it as I see it, but the use of smilies does help and I get your sentiment loud and clear this time.
'complete', yep, it does have all if not most of the regular stuff seen in AAA themepark MMO's, and let's be honest, bar 1 or 2 exceptions most of the current AAA MMORPG's are themepark MMO's.
The game lacks many things you'd expect in a "world class AAA MMO" like deep crafting that is useful from the start, EQ2, LotRO, Vanguard, PotBS have this. World PvP that actually has meaning where you can control and fight over meaningful objectives, Lineage 2, DAoC, Aion, Perfect World, Aika all have this, multiple starting areas that make playing a specific race meaningful, WoW, LotRO, EQ2, EQ etc... have this I could go on but you get the point I'm sure.
Let's skip the 'oldschool'/ sandbox blabla nonsense because it's giving me headaches, including the MMO homeless people who keep whining about it, shall we?
I'm confused here where have I mentioned any sandbox elements? and I've used games that were released up until as recent as 2010, also all the content I have listed has been available in so called themeparks over the past decade, clutching at straws much?
Looking at the AAA themepark model, which happened to include I think 8-9 out of the 10 currently most popular MMORPG's: crafting, open world pvp, arena pvp, quest based leveling, raids, dungeons, all the usual stuff is in there, with Rift's own little to bigger features like Collections and dynamic PvE content. Bottomline however: Rift has all the core features that the vast majority of the top AAA MMORPG's have, so yes, in that way it's complete.
See above comment.
'dynamic', yep dynamic PvE content is ingame.
This has been discussed to death and no-one has really be able to defend this claim properly, the so called dynamic events are just set scenario's that are set off at a random intervals, nothing dynamic about that I'm afraid.
If you can't see the difference between static PvE content and what the rifts add to the PvE environment, then you've either shut your brain off, or you have become so blinded/disgusted by Rift or maybe even WoW style themepark MMO's in general that you refuse to warrant any merit to the difference the additional feature of rifts brings into the gameplay. Well, if denial or selective perception is your thing, that's your fetishism, not mine is all I can say. I don't have to worship or deny the limitations of the rifts implementation into Rift's gameworld to still be able to acknowledge the distinction such a feature brings from the older, current MMO's. I just have to have my eyes open and use my mind and common sense.
When you resort to criticisng my sensibilities you've already lost the argument I'm afraid, so we go back to clutching at straws?
The fact that some find it copy paste and generic, well, that's opinion too, theirs, but it's not how everyone feels like it: not everyone has gone completely burnt out on themepark gameplay that they can't enjoy anything that reminds them of it anymore.
I feel that you are underestimating the amount of people who see Rift exactly like this, a generic and uninspiring game, they have removed 30+ servers from the game already after 4 months becaues the numbers are not there and they'll be more of this over the coming year, many people got caught up in the hype and took a while to realise this, but it shows with the lack of hard sub numbers being released and the server shutdowns that people are leaving this "World class next gen MMO"
Shrug. There were 99 servers with close to a million players who have bought Rift now, it has had a player retention that's better than a WAR, AoC or DCUO and those who leave don't leave as embittered or spiteful as a lot of the ones are who left WAR, AoC or STO. Looking at player activity trend figures right now (in various monitoring tools) I'd guess they still manage to hold close to half the player numbers that they had in the launch weeks. That's pretty good. Not the best it could have been, but still better than most other MMO launches of the past years, especially it's pretty good considering that it comes from a new unknown company and it has no large IP behind it.
Source? one from Trion would be nice, though you seem to be very sure of your "facts" here and afaik no concrete numbers have been realeased. At least you mentioned there were 99 servers, good to see you are keeping up with recent events.
It was their subjective opinion and viewpoint, and objectively looking at it, they had a point and enough base to say what they did.
Answers in yellow.
Maverick you really are starting to sound like an MMO apologist, you post some intelligent stuff but sometimes you seem to feel the need to defend a game if there is a significant amount of negativity levied against it, some games deserve the negativity, Rift some don't World Of Warcraft.
Heh, imagine that, I almost forgot this thread. Answers in blue.
As for the rest, pretty observant of you, but to be more accurate, besides me posting just for fun and entertainment, you'll see me very often post on arguments that I find either illogical, contrary to facts or common sense or reason, or extremely colored.
On these MMORPG.COM forums where a lot of ex-MMO gamers hang out, those who can't find enjoyment in current MMO's anymore, the jaded, the burnt out, the embittered, and those who favor sandbox MMO's or have grown an aversion towards current WoW style themepark MMO's, it just happens that those reason-defying arguments are for a far larger part used by those groups than by fans of various MMO's or those who can still enjoy current MMO's. More sensationalism and illogic is dealt by MMO bashers, haters and critics than by MMO fans and proponents. Really, that's actually all there is to it.
Sweeping generalisation seem to be your forte here but only add up to a rather weak suedo intellectual argument at best, being propped up with hackneyed excuses as to why someone would have the audacity to criticise a game or genre, that they enjoy discussing, while dismissing genuine points out of hand does not make a very sound argument. I would step back from the judgmental approach as you can never be sure of the experience that a person has when you conduct a debate on an internet forum, which could lead to red faces or worse all around if one is not careful.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
The server problem is real and it's pretty much known now that it was a clever way to shut down 20 servers. They aren't doing it tomorrow, but they'll do it probably before mid month in July imo.
As many have said, there isn't any normal thinking person who'd believe they are sectioning off twenty servers so that they can put trials on them, when there's no where for 20 server's worth of trials to come from. If they didn't get those in the first three months, they aren't getting many more.
The game is okay, but if anyone hasn't played it.. you'll have a hell of a great time in the beginning but at the end it just turns into a grindy loot/gear chase. Get your blues, get your T1 to get your T2, to get your T3. Their future content is no different with a major focus on more dungeons (Hammerknell) and some token PvP aspects on the side.
If you like raiding and dungeons, you will probably like RIFT. If you like PvP you won't like Rift. It's pretty much as simple as that.
I think the game will end up around 175k subs which is pretty good in today's market so if you like RIFT, find the most crowded server you can join and stay there. After all the shutdowns and merges to come, you'll be glad you did, because there is going to be a pretty big exodus in October when the six month subs are up.
If you like PvP you won't like Rift. It's pretty much as simple as that.
No, it isn't as simple as that, far from it.
It is the aspect of grinding Prestige Ranks that puts most people off of RIFT's Player vs Player, having to actually make effort to get to a competitive level is more dedication than most new age gamers are willing to devote.
An R1/2/3/4 player can kill R1-5 opponents with relative ease. On my R6 Rogue though, you'll be hard pressed to beat me in a 1v1 without R5 or R6 gear backing up your skills.
It's just like any other game with Player vs Player, you have one group of people that are willing to put in the work to get to that competitive level, and you have the other group who are unwilling to do so and believe that it is there god given right to be able to just dive headfirst into the fray and "pwn". These players make up the vocal minority that enjoys running to forums and crying enough tears to fill the Nile, giving people a false impression of the game's PvP, when the reality is much different than the nonsensical rhetoric being spewed on those forums.
This is the same, age old argument that has been debated for the last decade.
I enjoy RIFT's PvP immensely, this is a personal opinion that obviously won't apply to everyone. The same can be said about the statement I quoted above.
Originally posted by Kost Originally posted by popinjay
If you like PvP you won't like Rift. It's pretty much as simple as that.
No, it isn't as simple as that, far from it. It is the aspect of grinding Prestige Ranks that puts most people off of RIFT's Player vs Player, having to actually make effort to get to a competitive level is more dedication than most new age gamers are willing to devote. An R1/2/3/4 player can kill R1-5 opponents with relative ease. On my R6 Rogue though, you'll be hard pressed to beat me in a 1v1 without R5 or R6 gear backing up your skills. It's just like any other game with Player vs Player, you have one group of people that are willing to put in the work to get to that competitive level, and you have the other group who are unwilling to do so and believe that it is there god given right to be able to just dive headfirst into the fray and "pwn". These players make up the vocal minority that enjoys running to forums and crying enough tears to fill the Nile, giving people a false impression of the game's PvP, when the reality is much different than the nonsensical rhetoric being spewed on those forums. This is the same, age old argument that has been debated for the last decade. I enjoy RIFT's PvP immensely, this is a personal opinion that obviously won't apply to everyone. The same can be said about the statement I quoted above. Yes, it is that simple.
RIFT PvP is pretty flat.
You have the same boring zones to do.
There is hardly any 'world' pvp to be had.
The balancing is bad and people geared from places like GB can wipe the floor with most Pvpers simply because the raid gear is better.
The RIFT forums don't look like a minority, but even if so.. the WAR forums used to have a 'minority' too saying it was bad, and look what happened there, lol.
I'm confused here where have I mentioned any sandbox elements? and I've used games that were released up until as recent as 2010, also all the content I have listed has been available in so called themeparks over the past decade, clutching at straws much?
It was the reference of deep crafting that you connected with "world class AAA MMO": deep crafting is more something you'll find in sandbox MMO's, in "world class AAA MMO's" like WoW, LotrO, Aion, AoC, etc you'll find that the crafting often isn't that deep or complex or have a major impact, so Rift's crafting is on par with those. The same applies to PvP. Bottomline, like I said, the core features, not the distinctive ones, that you see in most of the AAA MMORPG's you also see in Rift.
If you can't see the difference between static PvE content and what the rifts add to the PvE environment, then you've either shut your brain off, or you have become so blinded/disgusted by Rift or maybe even WoW style themepark MMO's in general that you refuse to warrant any merit to the difference the additional feature of rifts brings into the gameplay. Well, if denial or selective perception is your thing, that's your fetishism, not mine is all I can say. I don't have to worship or deny the limitations of the rifts implementation into Rift's gameworld to still be able to acknowledge the distinction such a feature brings from the older, current MMO's. I just have to have my eyes open and use my mind and common sense.
When you resort to criticisng my sensibilities you've already lost the argument I'm afraid, so we go back to clutching at straws?
When you start complaining about your sensibilities instead of discussing the arguments I presented, then you've already lost the argument, that's true. So, let met repeat it: the rifts content is definitely distinctive from the static PvE content and PvE environments that you usually find in MMORPG's.
Source? one from Trion would be nice, though you seem to be very sure of your "facts" here and afaik no concrete numbers have been realeased. At least you mentioned there were 99 servers, good to see you are keeping up with recent events.
They stated themselves (a month or so ago?) that they were close to a million sales, for the rest I was referring to player activity tools, XFire, Raptr and Steam, that all showed trendlines that resembled about 50% of what they were in the weeks after launch. Believe or disbelieve them however you like.
Heh, imagine that, I almost forgot this thread. Answers in blue.
As for the rest, pretty observant of you, but to be more accurate, besides me posting just for fun and entertainment, you'll see me very often post on arguments that I find either illogical, contrary to facts or common sense or reason, or extremely colored.
On these MMORPG.COM forums where a lot of ex-MMO gamers hang out, those who can't find enjoyment in current MMO's anymore, the jaded, the burnt out, the embittered, and those who favor sandbox MMO's or have grown an aversion towards current WoW style themepark MMO's, it just happens that those reason-defying arguments are for a far larger part used by those groups than by fans of various MMO's or those who can still enjoy current MMO's. More sensationalism and illogic is dealt by MMO bashers, haters and critics than by MMO fans and proponents. Really, that's actually all there is to it.
Sweeping generalisation seem to be your forte here but only add up to a rather weak suedo intellectual argument at best, being propped up with hackneyed excuses as to why someone would have the audacity to criticise a game or genre, that they enjoy discussing, while dismissing genuine points out of hand does not make a very sound argument. I would step back from the judgmental approach as you can never be sure of the experience that a person has when you conduct a debate on an internet forum, which could lead to red faces or worse all around if one is not careful.
Sorry, but that does sound like a lot of blabla to what I think was a pretty honest answer I gave you, which I find a bit disappointing of you. Here you go again posting at least a few ad hominem arguments that have little to do with the topic: first you post your 'judgement' of my character, I give you a fair answer on it (in blue), and then you come up with this argument, really
Well, if you can't handle people having a positive or constructive viewpoint that disagrees with your hatred/dislike/disgust of Rift, so be it. I gave my arguments which I think were pretty fair and objective, also considering that I'm fairly neutral towards Rift, but I guess at this point it's at an 'let's agree to disagree' stage
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The server problem is real and it's pretty much known now that it was a clever way to shut down 20 servers. They aren't doing it tomorrow, but they'll do it probably before mid month in July imo.
As many have said, there isn't any normal thinking person who'd believe they are sectioning off twenty servers so that they can put trials on them, when there's no where for 20 server's worth of trials to come from. If they didn't get those in the first three months, they aren't getting many more.
The game is okay, but if anyone hasn't played it.. you'll have a hell of a great time in the beginning but at the end it just turns into a grindy loot/gear chase. Get your blues, get your T1 to get your T2, to get your T3. Their future content is no different with a major focus on more dungeons (Hammerknell) and some token PvP aspects on the side.
If you like raiding and dungeons, you will probably like RIFT. If you like PvP you won't like Rift. It's pretty much as simple as that.
I think the game will end up around 175k subs which is pretty good in today's market so if you like RIFT, find the most crowded server you can join and stay there. After all the shutdowns and merges to come, you'll be glad you did, because there is going to be a pretty big exodus in October when the six month subs are up.
Popinjay,
The 20 are just the NA servers they seem to have removed 12 EU servers for "trial servers" as well. Trion have already removed them from this list anyway.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Originally posted by popinjay The server problem is real and it's pretty much known now that it was a clever way to shut down 20 servers. They aren't doing it tomorrow, but they'll do it probably before mid month in July imo.
As many have said, there isn't any normal thinking person who'd believe they are sectioning off twenty servers so that they can put trials on them, when there's no where for 20 server's worth of trials to come from. If they didn't get those in the first three months, they aren't getting many more.
The game is okay, but if anyone hasn't played it.. you'll have a hell of a great time in the beginning but at the end it just turns into a grindy loot/gear chase. Get your blues, get your T1 to get your T2, to get your T3. Their future content is no different with a major focus on more dungeons (Hammerknell) and some token PvP aspects on the side.
If you like raiding and dungeons, you will probably like RIFT. If you like PvP you won't like Rift. It's pretty much as simple as that.
I think the game will end up around 175k subs which is pretty good in today's market so if you like RIFT, find the most crowded server you can join and stay there. After all the shutdowns and merges to come, you'll be glad you did, because there is going to be a pretty big exodus in October when the six month subs are up.
Popinjay, The 20 are just the NA servers they seem to have removed 12 EU servers for "trial servers" as well. Trion have already removed them from this list anyway. http://www.riftgame.com/en/status/index.php
Cal.
Egads.
It's worse than I thought. No wonder Gods and Heroes outsold them this week as a new game. Who'd of thought a retread would do that?
I'm pretty sure 85% or so of the people who were going to try RIFT already tried it by now.
I'm confused here where have I mentioned any sandbox elements? and I've used games that were released up until as recent as 2010, also all the content I have listed has been available in so called themeparks over the past decade, clutching at straws much?
It was the reference of deep crafting that you connected with "world class AAA MMO": deep crafting is more something you'll find in sandbox MMO's, in "world class AAA MMO's" like WoW, LotrO, Aion, AoC, etc you'll find that the crafting often isn't that deep or complex or have a major impact, so Rift's crafting is on par with those. The same applies to PvP. Bottomline, like I said, the core features, not the distinctive ones, that you see in most of the AAA MMORPG's you also see in Rift.
If you can't see the difference between static PvE content and what the rifts add to the PvE environment, then you've either shut your brain off, or you have become so blinded/disgusted by Rift or maybe even WoW style themepark MMO's in general that you refuse to warrant any merit to the difference the additional feature of rifts brings into the gameplay. Well, if denial or selective perception is your thing, that's your fetishism, not mine is all I can say. I don't have to worship or deny the limitations of the rifts implementation into Rift's gameworld to still be able to acknowledge the distinction such a feature brings from the older, current MMO's. I just have to have my eyes open and use my mind and common sense.
When you resort to criticisng my sensibilities you've already lost the argument I'm afraid, so we go back to clutching at straws?
When you start complaining about your sensibilities instead of discussing the arguments I presented, then you've already lost the argument, that's true. So, let met repeat it: the rifts content is definitely distinctive from the static PvE content and PvE environments that you usually find in MMORPG's.
Source? one from Trion would be nice, though you seem to be very sure of your "facts" here and afaik no concrete numbers have been realeased. At least you mentioned there were 99 servers, good to see you are keeping up with recent events.
They stated themselves (a month or so ago?) that they were close to a million sales, for the rest I was referring to player activity tools, XFire, Raptr and Steam, that all showed trendlines that resembled about 50% of what they were in the weeks after launch. Believe or disbelieve them however you like.
Heh, imagine that, I almost forgot this thread. Answers in blue.
As for the rest, pretty observant of you, but to be more accurate, besides me posting just for fun and entertainment, you'll see me very often post on arguments that I find either illogical, contrary to facts or common sense or reason, or extremely colored.
On these MMORPG.COM forums where a lot of ex-MMO gamers hang out, those who can't find enjoyment in current MMO's anymore, the jaded, the burnt out, the embittered, and those who favor sandbox MMO's or have grown an aversion towards current WoW style themepark MMO's, it just happens that those reason-defying arguments are for a far larger part used by those groups than by fans of various MMO's or those who can still enjoy current MMO's. More sensationalism and illogic is dealt by MMO bashers, haters and critics than by MMO fans and proponents. Really, that's actually all there is to it.
Sweeping generalisation seem to be your forte here but only add up to a rather weak suedo intellectual argument at best, being propped up with hackneyed excuses as to why someone would have the audacity to criticise a game or genre, that they enjoy discussing, while dismissing genuine points out of hand does not make a very sound argument. I would step back from the judgmental approach as you can never be sure of the experience that a person has when you conduct a debate on an internet forum, which could lead to red faces or worse all around if one is not careful.
Sorry, but that does sound like a lot of blabla to what I think was a pretty honest answer I gave you, which I find a bit disappointing of you. Here you go again posting at least a few ad hominem arguments that have little to do with the topic: first you post your 'judgement' of my character, I give you a fair answer on it (in blue), and then you come up with this argument, really
Well, if you can't handle people having a positive or constructive viewpoint that disagrees with your hatred/dislike/disgust of Rift, so be it. I gave my arguments which I think were pretty fair and objective, also considering that I'm fairly neutral towards Rift, but I guess at this point it's at an 'let's agree to disagree' stage
Time to get back to the OP topic.
Maverick if you had actually argued my original points then I would not have posted what I posted you seem so sure you have been objective but actually you have absolutely nothing of substance in what you have written just a collection of overused terms that are thrown around this forum, blabla is not arguing the points is it?
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Maverick if you had actually argued my original points then I would not have posted what I posted you seem so sure you have been objective but actually you have absolutely nothing of substance in what you have written just a collection of overused terms that are thrown around this forum, blabla is not arguing the points is it?
See my former posts: I replied on all your arguments you mentioned, if you purposely choose to ignore them to resort to personal attacks, well, that's your choice I guess.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Calerxes
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
I wonder do any of those guys in the trailer play now or were they just actors in the first place, hmmm!
Who cares whether they play now, as far as I see it those were normal players who gave their own opinion with permission of Trion, if that's how they saw the game they played then that's how it is to them.
Besides, they weren't that far wrong:
'complete', yep, it does have all if not most of the regular stuff seen in AAA themepark MMO's, and let's be honest, bar 1 or 2 exceptions most of the current AAA MMORPG's are themepark MMO's.
'next gen', their server technology and dynamic PvE content is definitely a step forward from the current status.
'dynamic', yep dynamic PvE content is ingame.
The fact that some find it copy paste and generic, well, that's opinion too, theirs, but it's not how everyone feels like it: not everyone has gone completely burnt out on themepark gameplay that they can't enjoy anything that reminds them of it anymore.
It was their subjective opinion and viewpoint, and objectively looking at it, they had a point and enough base to say what they did.
And additional replies:
Looking at the AAA themepark model, which happened to include I think 8-9 out of the 10 currently most popular MMORPG's: crafting, open world pvp, arena pvp, quest based leveling, raids, dungeons, all the usual stuff is in there, with Rift's own little to bigger features like Collections and dynamic PvE content. Bottomline however: Rift has all the core features that the vast majority of the top AAA MMORPG's have, so yes, in that way it's complete.
Rift has had a player retention that's better than a WAR, AoC or DCUO and those who leave don't leave as embittered or spiteful as a lot of the ones are who left WAR, AoC or STO. Looking at player activity trend figures right now (in various monitoring tools) I'd guess they still manage to hold close to half the player numbers that they had in the launch weeks. That's pretty good. Not the best it could have been, but still better than most other MMO launches of the past years, especially it's pretty good considering that it comes from a new unknown company and it has no large IP behind it.
Let me repeat it: the rifts content is definitely distinctive from the static PvE content and PvE environments that you usually find in MMORPG's.
Sounds like arguing your original points enough to me. If you disagree with my arguments, well, again, it doesn't make my points irrelevant or not a proper reply on your ridiculing or downtalking of that video you posted.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
God, the OP makes me feel like a freak, 'cause I actually really enjoy the RIft story and lore.
Note: I am only level 48 and I do take things slowly (playing since headstart) so I'm possibly a bit unusual in playstyle and that may make all the difference.
WARNING: some (small) spoilers follow.
To give some examples:
Scotty - the dwarf student who comes good. Well, I was surprised by how much I enjoyed meeting Scotty in the different zones, following his progress and the ceremony in Sanctum was far from KILL, KILL, KILL as the OP likes to emphasise.
Marshall Kain - when Kain took a swing at me I was genuinely surprised (I had suspected something would happen there but I was still a bit shocked when he did it lol) and something about the loyalty of his troops when he really goes bad was touching.
Defiant versus Guardian - I find this division more interesting than the typical racial alliance versus racial alliance.
The Endless Court - I've not seen that much of this group but in concept I think they work as a "scary" enemy. The first time I saw the Eye of Regulos I had one of those shivery moments.
Ascended, Rifts and Dragons - overall I think the big concepts in the lore are decent. It is nice to have lore explain why you are special and why you can die a lot. I thought it was neat when I got to Stillmoor (I think that is the name) my character kind of recognised the land because that is where I "originially" died.
---
I do think it can strongly depend on how "open" you are to enjoying Rift. Perhaps there is a kind of tipping point where you either start to get into the game and the more you learn the more you appreciate the world.
One criticism. There are way too many quests and too many of these are so completely mundane and dull that you are better off not doing them - they leave a bad taste in my opinion. This is especially true if you participate in Rifting and Defending - you get a lot of xp from doing this. So, I focus on the story quests and skip a lot of the normal quests.
Trust me, you are not the freak in this equation... Yes, Rift is a lot of what people complain about. It is very much your standard themepark MMOG with a couple of interesting twists. It never claimed to be anything else and in fact went out of it's way to make that clear. Unfortunately some people can't see the forest through the trees.
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"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
OP - This is the best post I've seen in a long time. I agree with you 100%.
+1 except for the "new" rift element.
Free to play means pay to win.
I enjoyed Rift a lot for the first three months since head start then it became boring during the first event it was fun everyone was taking part in closing death rifts and collecting currency then the second event was more grindy collect 80 eggs daily i.e. closing 20 earth rifts.... and i stopped taking part. Now the water rift events same bunch of grind quest. Also completed 200 artifact set now they added more sets, more grind.
AoC and EQ2 have AA, Alternate Advancement, a different way of progressing your character at level cap besides gear.
You may have your sandbox dreams, but they're still dreams if you ignore the reality that themepark design has by far had the largest populations and the most successful MMO's (financially and in popularity).
And this.
Sorry, Elikal, but your continuous rants and gaming experiences are starting to sound... masochistic. I mean, if after so many times having bumped your head to the same wall making the same mistake over and over... well, it starts to sound as if you'll never learn
As for Rift itself, it's a rather well done and polished WoW-style themepark MMORPG with a few twists of its own like rifts and flexible classes.
It's a far smaller world than WoW. It has better graphics than WoW. It doesn't have as much alt replayability as other MMO's have. It does have a dedicated, responsive dev team, more than most others MMO's.
If people have grown burnt out on WoW-style themepark MMO's or can only like sandbox or non-themepark MMO's, then obviously Rift is not for them, no need to even look in these forums.
If people can still enjoy WoW-style themepark MMO's, then Rift is a good other choice and a change of pace from the MMO they've been playing before, for at least a couple of months.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldI3ypm1gHg
"Rift is the complete next gen in online gaming"
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
No, really, did they say they were launching a copy paste, repetative, generic, bland, small world, lack of content, fast leveling, lackluster PvP MMO that would be steathly shutting down 38 servers 4 months after launch?
I wonder do any of those guys in the trailer play now or were they just actors in the first place, hmmm!
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Who cares whether they play now, as far as I see it those were normal players who gave their own opinion with permission of Trion, if that's how they saw the game they played then that's how it is to them.
Besides, they weren't that far wrong:
'complete', yep, it does have all if not most of the regular stuff seen in AAA themepark MMO's, and let's be honest, bar 1 or 2 exceptions most of the current AAA MMORPG's are themepark MMO's.
'next gen', their server technology and dynamic PvE content is definitely a step forward from the current status.
'dynamic', yep dynamic PvE content is ingame.
The fact that some find it copy paste and generic, well, that's opinion too, theirs, but it's not how everyone feels like it: not everyone has gone completely burnt out on themepark gameplay that they can't enjoy anything that reminds them of it anymore.
It was their subjective opinion and viewpoint, and objectively looking at it, they had a point and enough base to say what they did.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I gave it a real chance. But when the second live event hit with lots of fanfare and found out it was LITTERLY and EXACTLY the same as the previous Live event. Collect 7 of this in Sanctum and go kill stuff in Rifts for currency. I got burned out quickly and fed up.
I mean... is this all they can come up with as Live event? Just recycling over and over the EXACT same, just with a different mob or different object to collect.
It is just so uninspiring and totally generic. It's not even funny.
That's why I still play and enjoy EverQuest 2. Eventho it's various PR dissasters and mistakes over the years.... it is hands down still the best PVE themepark MMO out there.
Nothing beats the Live events and Story questlines like in EverQuest 2. (except LOTRO). Not to mention all the various stuff you can do.
Pfff... I was playing EQ2 before I cottoned on to Rift and I loathed it. Talk about lonely questing. The world was too big and largely empty of players. And when I did see another player they didn't react to me and didn't want to group and it just meant it took longer to complete a quest.
And you want to talk bland and generic? Well that's how I would describe EQ2. I was completely and utterly underwhelmed. It felt completely pointless. It felt absolutely souless.
Rift was the opposite experience for me and the DE system made all the difference.
Look, bash Rift all you want guys. Doesn't change that it is the most successful MMO we've had for a long time and a great many people think it is fantastic fun.
Think it's time some of the people on this forum took a break from gaming, MMO's in particular.
Yup RIFT isn't the next coming, but it's still a lot of fun, especially if you get in with a good guild who are happy to take us slower levelers on a first T1 dungeon run.
And yes I'd love to see another main stream MMO try a crafting system as complex as SWG but just can't see it happening at the moment, but maybe in the future.
If any of you has fun with Rift, by all means, thats fine with me! I don't want to convert you! Really.
However, I see Rift is so narrowed down in what it's gameplay contains. It is just kill stuff, end of story. I mean, it really has some good moments, and levelling from, 1-50 the first time and the first, say 10 or 20 invasions were fun. It's just... SO SHORT lived. I don't understand how anyone can make such a limited gameplay system?
It's a pity, and the demise of SWG has brought me again to see in sharp contrast what I miss. Some *additional* stuff other than "go be a hero, save the galaxy and kill 100 of X". Which is fun, really, but not ALL THE TIME and ONLY THAT. It's like going into a restaurant which only has Schnitzel. No salad, no potatoes, no rice, no other meat, just Schnitzel. A very good Schnitzel, no doubt. But nothing else. How often would YOU go there? *shrug*
Sigh, well maybe the MMO development is leaving me behind. It goes a direction more and more simplified and streamlined I can't enjoy for more than a brief time. I asked for a real dinner and I got a Burger. A good Burger, but just a Burger. What I noticed is, that my stays in MMOs have shrunk with every new MMO. Now my time is often just counted in WEEKS, when long ago I used to stay 4-5 years!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
wow has a soul.... otherwise, ya
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Answers in yellow.
Maverick you really are starting to sound like an MMO apologist, you post some intelligent stuff but sometimes you seem to feel the need to defend a game if there is a significant amount of negativity levied against it, some games deserve the negativity, Rift some don't World Of Warcraft.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Heh, imagine that, I almost forgot this thread. Answers in blue.
As for the rest, pretty observant of you, but to be more accurate, besides me posting just for fun and entertainment, you'll see me very often post on arguments that I find either illogical, contrary to facts or common sense or reason, or extremely colored.
On these MMORPG.COM forums where a lot of ex-MMO gamers hang out, those who can't find enjoyment in current MMO's anymore, the jaded, the burnt out, the embittered, and those who favor sandbox MMO's or have grown an aversion towards current WoW style themepark MMO's, it just happens that those reason-defying arguments are for a far larger part used by those groups than by fans of various MMO's or those who can still enjoy current MMO's. More sensationalism and illogic is dealt by MMO bashers, haters and critics than by MMO fans and proponents. Really, that's actually all there is to it.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Been playing the free trial for 2 days now , the game is polished and runs smooth. although at the same time i catch myself dosing off playing it. Plus i havent seen to many players..could be because im the noob zone under lvl 20 , but the game feels empty especialy for a newer game.
not saying its a bad game but at this point in time..Buying the game is out of the question ..hopefully itll pick up before i see some kinda trial restriction.
Sweeping generalisation seem to be your forte here but only add up to a rather weak suedo intellectual argument at best, being propped up with hackneyed excuses as to why someone would have the audacity to criticise a game or genre, that they enjoy discussing, while dismissing genuine points out of hand does not make a very sound argument. I would step back from the judgmental approach as you can never be sure of the experience that a person has when you conduct a debate on an internet forum, which could lead to red faces or worse all around if one is not careful.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
The server problem is real and it's pretty much known now that it was a clever way to shut down 20 servers. They aren't doing it tomorrow, but they'll do it probably before mid month in July imo.
As many have said, there isn't any normal thinking person who'd believe they are sectioning off twenty servers so that they can put trials on them, when there's no where for 20 server's worth of trials to come from. If they didn't get those in the first three months, they aren't getting many more.
The game is okay, but if anyone hasn't played it.. you'll have a hell of a great time in the beginning but at the end it just turns into a grindy loot/gear chase. Get your blues, get your T1 to get your T2, to get your T3. Their future content is no different with a major focus on more dungeons (Hammerknell) and some token PvP aspects on the side.
If you like raiding and dungeons, you will probably like RIFT. If you like PvP you won't like Rift. It's pretty much as simple as that.
I think the game will end up around 175k subs which is pretty good in today's market so if you like RIFT, find the most crowded server you can join and stay there. After all the shutdowns and merges to come, you'll be glad you did, because there is going to be a pretty big exodus in October when the six month subs are up.
"TO MICHAEL!"
No, it isn't as simple as that, far from it.
It is the aspect of grinding Prestige Ranks that puts most people off of RIFT's Player vs Player, having to actually make effort to get to a competitive level is more dedication than most new age gamers are willing to devote.
An R1/2/3/4 player can kill R1-5 opponents with relative ease. On my R6 Rogue though, you'll be hard pressed to beat me in a 1v1 without R5 or R6 gear backing up your skills.
It's just like any other game with Player vs Player, you have one group of people that are willing to put in the work to get to that competitive level, and you have the other group who are unwilling to do so and believe that it is there god given right to be able to just dive headfirst into the fray and "pwn". These players make up the vocal minority that enjoys running to forums and crying enough tears to fill the Nile, giving people a false impression of the game's PvP, when the reality is much different than the nonsensical rhetoric being spewed on those forums.
This is the same, age old argument that has been debated for the last decade.
I enjoy RIFT's PvP immensely, this is a personal opinion that obviously won't apply to everyone. The same can be said about the statement I quoted above.
It is the aspect of grinding Prestige Ranks that puts most people off of RIFT's Player vs Player, having to actually make effort to get to a competitive level is more dedication than most new age gamers are willing to devote.
An R1/2/3/4 player can kill R1-5 opponents with relative ease. On my R6 Rogue though, you'll be hard pressed to beat me in a 1v1 without R5 or R6 gear backing up your skills.
It's just like any other game with Player vs Player, you have one group of people that are willing to put in the work to get to that competitive level, and you have the other group who are unwilling to do so and believe that it is there god given right to be able to just dive headfirst into the fray and "pwn". These players make up the vocal minority that enjoys running to forums and crying enough tears to fill the Nile, giving people a false impression of the game's PvP, when the reality is much different than the nonsensical rhetoric being spewed on those forums.
This is the same, age old argument that has been debated for the last decade.
I enjoy RIFT's PvP immensely, this is a personal opinion that obviously won't apply to everyone. The same can be said about the statement I quoted above.
Yes, it is that simple.
RIFT PvP is pretty flat.
You have the same boring zones to do.
There is hardly any 'world' pvp to be had.
The balancing is bad and people geared from places like GB can wipe the floor with most Pvpers simply because the raid gear is better.
The RIFT forums don't look like a minority, but even if so.. the WAR forums used to have a 'minority' too saying it was bad, and look what happened there, lol.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Sorry, but that does sound like a lot of blabla to what I think was a pretty honest answer I gave you, which I find a bit disappointing of you. Here you go again posting at least a few ad hominem arguments that have little to do with the topic: first you post your 'judgement' of my character, I give you a fair answer on it (in blue), and then you come up with this argument, really
Well, if you can't handle people having a positive or constructive viewpoint that disagrees with your hatred/dislike/disgust of Rift, so be it. I gave my arguments which I think were pretty fair and objective, also considering that I'm fairly neutral towards Rift, but I guess at this point it's at an 'let's agree to disagree' stage
Time to get back to the OP topic.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Popinjay,
The 20 are just the NA servers they seem to have removed 12 EU servers for "trial servers" as well. Trion have already removed them from this list anyway.
http://www.riftgame.com/en/status/index.php
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
It's worse than I thought. No wonder Gods and Heroes outsold them this week as a new game. Who'd of thought a retread would do that?
I'm pretty sure 85% or so of the people who were going to try RIFT already tried it by now.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Maverick if you had actually argued my original points then I would not have posted what I posted you seem so sure you have been objective but actually you have absolutely nothing of substance in what you have written just a collection of overused terms that are thrown around this forum, blabla is not arguing the points is it?
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
See my former posts: I replied on all your arguments you mentioned, if you purposely choose to ignore them to resort to personal attacks, well, that's your choice I guess.
And additional replies:
Looking at the AAA themepark model, which happened to include I think 8-9 out of the 10 currently most popular MMORPG's: crafting, open world pvp, arena pvp, quest based leveling, raids, dungeons, all the usual stuff is in there, with Rift's own little to bigger features like Collections and dynamic PvE content. Bottomline however: Rift has all the core features that the vast majority of the top AAA MMORPG's have, so yes, in that way it's complete.
Rift has had a player retention that's better than a WAR, AoC or DCUO and those who leave don't leave as embittered or spiteful as a lot of the ones are who left WAR, AoC or STO. Looking at player activity trend figures right now (in various monitoring tools) I'd guess they still manage to hold close to half the player numbers that they had in the launch weeks. That's pretty good. Not the best it could have been, but still better than most other MMO launches of the past years, especially it's pretty good considering that it comes from a new unknown company and it has no large IP behind it.
Let me repeat it: the rifts content is definitely distinctive from the static PvE content and PvE environments that you usually find in MMORPG's.
Sounds like arguing your original points enough to me. If you disagree with my arguments, well, again, it doesn't make my points irrelevant or not a proper reply on your ridiculing or downtalking of that video you posted.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."