Maverick if you had actually argued my original points then I would not have posted what I posted you seem so sure you have been objective but actually you have absolutely nothing of substance in what you have written just a collection of overused terms that are thrown around this forum, blabla is not arguing the points is it?
See my former posts: I replied on all your arguments you mentioned, if you purposely choose to ignore them to resort to personal attacks, well, that's your choice I guess.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Calerxes
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
I wonder do any of those guys in the trailer play now or were they just actors in the first place, hmmm!
Who cares whether they play now, as far as I see it those were normal players who gave their own opinion with permission of Trion, if that's how they saw the game they played then that's how it is to them.
Besides, they weren't that far wrong:
'complete', yep, it does have all if not most of the regular stuff seen in AAA themepark MMO's, and let's be honest, bar 1 or 2 exceptions most of the current AAA MMORPG's are themepark MMO's.
'next gen', their server technology and dynamic PvE content is definitely a step forward from the current status.
'dynamic', yep dynamic PvE content is ingame.
The fact that some find it copy paste and generic, well, that's opinion too, theirs, but it's not how everyone feels like it: not everyone has gone completely burnt out on themepark gameplay that they can't enjoy anything that reminds them of it anymore.
It was their subjective opinion and viewpoint, and objectively looking at it, they had a point and enough base to say what they did.
And additional replies:
Looking at the AAA themepark model, which happened to include I think 8-9 out of the 10 currently most popular MMORPG's: crafting, open world pvp, arena pvp, quest based leveling, raids, dungeons, all the usual stuff is in there, with Rift's own little to bigger features like Collections and dynamic PvE content. Bottomline however: Rift has all the core features that the vast majority of the top AAA MMORPG's have, so yes, in that way it's complete.
Rift has had a player retention that's better than a WAR, AoC or DCUO and those who leave don't leave as embittered or spiteful as a lot of the ones are who left WAR, AoC or STO. Looking at player activity trend figures right now (in various monitoring tools) I'd guess they still manage to hold close to half the player numbers that they had in the launch weeks. That's pretty good. Not the best it could have been, but still better than most other MMO launches of the past years, especially it's pretty good considering that it comes from a new unknown company and it has no large IP behind it.
Let me repeat it: the rifts content is definitely distinctive from the static PvE content and PvE environments that you usually find in MMORPG's.
Sounds like arguing your original points enough to me. If you disagree with my arguments, well, again, it doesn't make my points irrelevant or not a proper reply on your ridiculing or downtalking of that video you posted.
Yes I did read your replies and replied to each one, I'm finding this very difficult its like banging my head against a wall if you cannot understand what you are infact posting is not objective but judgmental, scattered with hearsay with no actual facts then I'm at a loss for words. I originally posted a reply to someone who believed Trion never said any of the quotes in that trailer thats why I used the link to argue the point that they infact did say what I quoted, then you posted your comments to debunk what I said its as simple as that and was not ridiculing or downtalking anything or anyone, I try to argue with facts, you just seem to want to believe it was that way and took offence and came in like you are a knight in shining armour defending the honour of Rift. But you actually did not understand the debate in the first place it seems.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
I think people do not acknowledge development over experience. Games are loops that are repeated over and over and no matter the game so is your experience.
Rift puts you right into a rift/raid at the end of the starting area. Which gives casual players a feeling of shock and awe "Im in a raid? Thats so awesome!!!", because other games fail to use this mechanic until "end game". I will admit rifts and invasions are far to common but it is apart of thre lore of the game. Oh, btw, for those of you who don't know what lore is, its the story. I just know most of you forget the story aspect of games and just criticize mechanics you do not understand.
Rift is a great game from a few angles. It is refreshing with content, although some what familiar, the PvP is slightly better than average the instances are fast and challenging, and world events are fun! You cannot ignore how much dedication that was put into this game in development. Its clear, it was one of the few mmo's that had a stable launch, it is well polished, and they didn't add in features that were not fully finished, like a market that can't be used til x.x update.
I played this game and I did grow tired of it. But unlike every other mmo I played I have nothing bad to say about it. Trion did a great job creating this game and did an even better one maintaining it. I look forward to the expansions, just to see some new material.
Yes I did read your replies and replied to each one, I'm finding this very difficult its like banging my head against a wall if you cannot understand what you are infact posting is not objective but judgmental, scattered with hearsay with no actual facts then I'm at a loss for words. I originally posted a reply to someone who believed Trion never said any of the quotes in that trailer thats why I used the link to argue the point that they infact did say what I quoted, then you posted your comments to debunk what I said its as simple as that and was not ridiculing or downtalking anything or anyone, I try to argue with facts, you just seem to want to believe it was that way and took offence and came in like you are a knight in shining armour defending the honour of Rift. But you actually did not understand the debate in the first place it seems.
Let's summarise the core points I was making for convenience's sake:
1. in that video, it looks to me like regular players giving their opinion and experience impressions in sort of an interview.
2. like I said in my arguments, if I'd have said the things those guild gamers stated, I could have defended that viewpoint with solid explanations, it wouldn't have been a lie. Yes, Rift is a complete AAA MMORPG in all its features even if its world and amount of content is less than other AAA MMO's, yes, Rift does have dynamic PvE content that you won't find in the current other AAA MMO's, and yes, Rift is next-gen in the sense that its server infrastructure and its automated dynamic content are steps forward, even if Rift as a whole imo isn't really a 'next-gen MMO' (if there ever have been those).
You gave your explanation why you think Trion lied or didn't come true on their earlier statements, I gave mine by saying that that's a false perception and that all these guild gamers' statements actually were grounded on truth and reality, only not what some people had expected hearing those statements. Opinions can differ, I gave mine, I know yours, I don't see any new or other arguments rising from this debate besides a rehash so to me this is the point where I agree to disagree.
edit: and like DLangley said, try to avoid the personal attacks and (incorrect) ad hominem assumptions next time that seem to accompany some of your posts. Thank you
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes I did read your replies and replied to each one, I'm finding this very difficult its like banging my head against a wall if you cannot understand what you are infact posting is not objective but judgmental, scattered with hearsay with no actual facts then I'm at a loss for words. I originally posted a reply to someone who believed Trion never said any of the quotes in that trailer thats why I used the link to argue the point that they infact did say what I quoted, then you posted your comments to debunk what I said its as simple as that and was not ridiculing or downtalking anything or anyone, I try to argue with facts, you just seem to want to believe it was that way and took offence and came in like you are a knight in shining armour defending the honour of Rift. But you actually did not understand the debate in the first place it seems.
Let's summarise the core points I was making for convenience's sake:
1. in that video, it looks to me like regular players giving their opinion and experience impressions in sort of an interview.
2. like I said in my arguments, if I'd have said the things those guild gamers stated, I could have defended that viewpoint with solid explanations, it wouldn't have been a lie. Yes, Rift is a complete AAA MMORPG in all its features even if its world and amount of content is less than other AAA MMO's, yes, Rift does have dynamic PvE content that you won't find in the current other AAA MMO's, and yes, Rift is next-gen in the sense that its server infrastructure and its automated dynamic content are steps forward, even if Rift as a whole imo isn't really a 'next-gen MMO' (if there ever have been those).
You gave your explanation why you think Trion lied or didn't come true on their earlier statements, I gave mine by saying that that's a false perception and that all these guild gamers' statements actually were grounded on truth and reality, only not what some people had expected hearing those statements. Opinions can differ, I gave mine, I know yours, I don't see any new or other arguments rising from this debate besides a rehash so to me this is the point where I agree to disagree.
edit: and like DLangley said, try to avoid the personal attacks and (incorrect) ad hominem assumptions next time that seem to accompany some of your posts. Thank you
And to add to that, like I've said before (probably multiple times in this thread), Rift is the most stable and polished launch I have seen in mmo history. I have not played a game at launch which had performance this good. I haven't played a launch with as few bugs as this launch, i have crashed to desktop fewer times.....maybe only once than any other game and when compared to all other games at launch, this has by far more to do than any other game I've played at launch. EQ, EQ2, CoH, LotRO, AoC, WAR, Tabula Rasa, DCUO, and even the elephant in the room ....WoW.
I believe you could solidly argue that this game is more 'complete', polished and stable than any of those games were on day one and up to what ....like month 3 now?
It is absolutely true that Trion proved you can release a game in this state of polish and stability, and thus raised the bar for all future games, just as the quoted player said.
Originally posted by jjjk29 I think people do not acknowledge development over experience. Games are loops that are repeated over and over and no matter the game so is your experience.
Rift puts you right into a rift/raid at the end of the starting area. Which gives casual players a feeling of shock and awe "Im in a raid? Thats so awesome!!!", because other games fail to use this mechanic until "end game". I will admit rifts and invasions are far to common but it is apart of thre lore of the game.
I agree with this. When you first start RIFT it's an incredible game and what you described above is magnified when there are other people. Putting people right in the action before they are level 10 is amazing, and you get a great idea what the rest of the game is about on either faction because you fight the 'noobie rift' in the starting zone.
This fantastic feature is also RIFT's curse, but you don't realize it until later on, and why the game sours for many players later.
Starting you off in the game with the best feature OF the game has the unintended side effect of making you take it for granted or in the worst case, burning out on it. Imagine if another MMO had a feature that allowed you to see it's main draw from the start or it's endgame at the beginning. That's what RIFT does.
The rifts you fight at level 10 are the same rifts you will fight at level 50 for the most part with small differences. Different color mobs, different 'attunements' such as fire, water, life, etc, and different types (human zombies instead of human werewolves). If you only fought one rift a level, that's 50 rifts at your max level. Think about that.. 50 rifts.
By the time most people are 50, they are no longer doing rifts for the fun aspect; it's primarily for the loot or to get a title. The charm has worn off because there is only so much you can do with a rift. Things come out and you have to kill them... period.
Usually with games there is a buildup of sorts.. getting skills, doing some quests, working toward some higher goal for your character. But in rift, they give the hook off right from the start which is good and bad. So much so that by endgame (50) rifts are often passed up by the overwhelming majority of players who view them then as a nuisance.
I couldn't agree more. I made the mistake of buying the game after playing the starting area and I regret it now and will not be wasting any more money or time on this "game". Remember when games used to be challenging instead of repeatedly hitting kill buttons? Rift is very nice to look at and that's about it. Otherwise it is same same same same ad infinitum.
The argument that seems to come up mostly in favour of it is "it might have a small world but it's packed" well yes, it is packed to the point of hardly being able to move anywhere without being constantly attacked - why they bothered with mounts in this game is beyond me, you have to be on foot to fight everything in your path.
Another thing I have heard in defense of Rift is that it is so very polished. Well the graphics and graphic engine is indeed polished, but shiny does indeed tire quickly.
I was stupid for spending money on this game at all, I would be even more stupid to spend any more of my time on it, or for that matter in talking about it. It's gone, it's done, I can breathe again and forget it now. My nightmare has come to an end, phew.
God, the OP makes me feel like a freak, 'cause I actually really enjoy the RIft story and lore.
Trust me, you are not the freak in this equation... Yes, Rift is a lot of what people complain about. It is very much your standard themepark MMOG with a couple of interesting twists. It never claimed to be anything else and in fact went out of it's way to make that clear. Unfortunately some people can't see the forest through the trees.
I'm still gobsmacked that people still believe this..... watch this Beta trailer and then rethink your words, Rift claimed to be so much more than what they released......
"complete means launching with everything you expect from a world class AAA MMO"
"Next gen means it will advance the genre the day it ships"
"Rift is a truly dynamic game"
No, really did they say they were launching a copy paste, generic, bland, fast leveling, lackluster PvP game that would be steathly shutting down 38 servers 4 months after launch.
I wonder do any of those guys in the trailer play now or were they just actors in the first place, hmmm!
Who cares whether they play now, as far as I see it those were normal players who gave their own opinion with permission of Trion, if that's how they saw the game they played then that's how it is to them.
Besides, they weren't that far wrong:
'complete', yep, it does have all if not most of the regular stuff seen in AAA themepark MMO's, and let's be honest, bar 1 or 2 exceptions most of the current AAA MMORPG's are themepark MMO's.
'next gen', their server technology and dynamic PvE content is definitely a step forward from the current status.
'dynamic', yep dynamic PvE content is ingame.
The fact that some find it copy paste and generic, well, that's opinion too, theirs, but it's not how everyone feels like it: not everyone has gone completely burnt out on themepark gameplay that they can't enjoy anything that reminds them of it anymore.
It was their subjective opinion and viewpoint, and objectively looking at it, they had a point and enough base to say what they did.
The people in the video were Alpha testers and the game was something else at that time.It doesn't mean that it was not a WoW clone but it was not that grindfest shit that it is now at end game...a lot of us don't play anymore.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Yes I did read your replies and replied to each one, I'm finding this very difficult its like banging my head against a wall if you cannot understand what you are infact posting is not objective but judgmental, scattered with hearsay with no actual facts then I'm at a loss for words. I originally posted a reply to someone who believed Trion never said any of the quotes in that trailer thats why I used the link to argue the point that they infact did say what I quoted, then you posted your comments to debunk what I said its as simple as that and was not ridiculing or downtalking anything or anyone, I try to argue with facts, you just seem to want to believe it was that way and took offence and came in like you are a knight in shining armour defending the honour of Rift. But you actually did not understand the debate in the first place it seems.
Let's summarise the core points I was making for convenience's sake:
1. in that video, it looks to me like regular players giving their opinion and experience impressions in sort of an interview.
2. like I said in my arguments, if I'd have said the things those guild gamers stated, I could have defended that viewpoint with solid explanations, it wouldn't have been a lie. Yes, Rift is a complete AAA MMORPG in all its features even if its world and amount of content is less than other AAA MMO's, yes, Rift does have dynamic PvE content that you won't find in the current other AAA MMO's, and yes, Rift is next-gen in the sense that its server infrastructure and its automated dynamic content are steps forward, even if Rift as a whole imo isn't really a 'next-gen MMO' (if there ever have been those).
You gave your explanation why you think Trion lied or didn't come true on their earlier statements, I gave mine by saying that that's a false perception and that all these guild gamers' statements actually were grounded on truth and reality, only not what some people had expected hearing those statements. Opinions can differ, I gave mine, I know yours, I don't see any new or other arguments rising from this debate besides a rehash so to me this is the point where I agree to disagree.
edit: and like DLangley said, try to avoid the personal attacks and (incorrect) ad hominem assumptions next time that seem to accompany some of your posts. Thank you
Maverick and this sums up the whole tet-a-tet, your attitude on this forum and what I was trying to get at, he means you as well, :facepalm:
You've have completely missed the point as I suspected in my last post before Mr Langley interjected, you cannot boil all criticism down to haters/burned out vets/embittered old skoolers and their perception of how they interpreted the claims in promotinal video's when Rift was released, you are basically defending misleading marketing tactics and that as I said in my initial reply says to me you are just an apologist and I feel all your retorts have had no substance to them but you keep thinking they are objective facts which they are not because you haven't backed anything you have said with a source, ie the subs you claim Rift has, and thats was my whole point all along, but it went straight over your head like your understanding of the moderation was directed at me alone.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Maverick and this sums up the whole tet-a-tet, your attitude on this forum and what I was trying to get at, he means you as well, :facepalm:
You've have completely missed the point as I suspected in my last post before Mr Langley interjected, you cannot boil all criticism down to haters/burned out vets/embittered old skoolers and thats was my whole point all along, but it went straight over your head like your understanding of the moderation was directed at me alone.
? I was aware his words were directed to everyone including me in this thread, but I don't have to advice myself in my own post to refrain from flame baiting, that would've looked silly if I did that, right?
Then again, here you are: again you address NONE of my arguments in the post that you quoted, again you use a small part of that whole post ignoring the rest to resort to personal attacks and insults and flamebaiting. Anyway, I'm done with you, from your last posts it has become clear to me that you just have nothing sensible to reply on my arguments anymore, and you just blatantly ignore what I'm trying to say and any attempt to steer it back towards Rift and that video as topic instead of the personal attacks over and over again. Hf with trying to derail this discussion into a downward spiral on your own, I'm done with discussing this topic with you.
edit: I see you edited your post to make it less like a 100% personal attack and add some arguments to it. The wrong argument though, my first reply on your subjective interpretation of that video had nothing to do at all with subs.
In fact, that entered the discussion laterc as a reply upon one of your later comments, and this is what I stated later "Looking at player activity trend figures right now (in various monitoring tools) I'd guess they still manage to hold close to half the player numbers that they had in the launch weeks."
No one has their sub numbers but neither do you, so your guess is as good as mine but my speculation is at least based upon trend figures from player activity tools. If you want to disbelieve the 'nearing 1 million sales', another argument, I'm sure google will lead you to the Trion devs stating that. Again, this has nothing to do with my first reply on your video, nor the arguments that you interpreted subjectively in them.
As for backing up, I don't see you backing up your own arguments with sources at all, in fact you just gave your personal subjective opinion on why you thought what they said was untrue, while I gave mine on why I thought they weren't untrue. Don't resort to namecalling again, I'm not calling you a biased tunnelvision Rift hater so I don't see why you should resort to calling me an apologist, especially since I only gave my opinion on why I think the people in that video were truthful to their statements.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Agree 100% with the orginal poster (and thats rare!). Its uninspiring, formularic and dull as dish water. It's WoW with good graphics.. vastly overrated by Critics all over the place who sadly think that MMORPG's = EVERQUEST/WOW. It will continue to thrive since so many people who joined our pass time with WoW know no different.
Sad, but I think there is room for all tastes - Rift/WoW = the X-factor Singles of MMO - popular because they are popular, not because they are deep, but because they are shallow.
If your looking for something orginal, go look at the Free-to-play games out there, there are so many to choose from. Or if you think P2P is the best way ahead, check out some of the games that Critics set at mediocre scores 70+, there are real gems to be found that are orginal and compelling and not another Everquest clone.
Maverick and this sums up the whole tet-a-tet, your attitude on this forum and what I was trying to get at, he means you as well, :facepalm:
You've have completely missed the point as I suspected in my last post before Mr Langley interjected, you cannot boil all criticism down to haters/burned out vets/embittered old skoolers and thats was my whole point all along, but it went straight over your head like your understanding of the moderation was directed at me alone.
? I was aware his words were directed to everyone including me in this thread, but I don't have to advice myself in my own post to refrain from flame baiting, that would've looked silly if I did that, right?
Then again, here you are: again you address NONE of my arguments in the post that you quoted, again you use a small part of that whole post ignoring the rest to resort to personal attacks and insults and flamebaiting. Anyway, I'm done with you, from your last posts it has become clear to me that you just have nothing sensible to reply on my arguments anymore, and you just blatantly ignore what I'm trying to say and any attempt to steer it back towards Rift and that video as topic instead of the personal attacks over and over again. Hf with trying to derail this discussion into a downward spiral on your own, I'm done with discussing this topic with you.
edit: I see you edited your post to make it less like a 100% personal attack and add some arguments to it. The wrong argument though, my first reply on your subjective interpretation of that video had nothing to do at all with subs.
In fact, that entered the discussion laterc as a reply upon one of your later comments, and this is what I stated later "Looking at player activity trend figures right now (in various monitoring tools) I'd guess they still manage to hold close to half the player numbers that they had in the launch weeks."
No one has their sub numbers but neither do you, so your guess is as good as mine but my speculation is at least based upon trend figures from player activity tools. If you want to disbelieve the 'nearing 1 million sales', another argument, I'm sure google will lead you to the Trion devs stating that. Again, this has nothing to do with my first reply on your video, nor the arguments that you interpreted subjectively in them.
As for backing up, I don't see you backing up your own arguments with sources at all, in fact you just gave your personal subjective opinion on why you thought what they said was untrue, while I gave mine on why I thought they weren't untrue. Don't resort to namecalling again, I'm not calling you a biased tunnelvision Rift hater so I don't see why you should resort to calling me an apologist, especially since I only gave my opinion on why I think they the people in that video were truthful to their statements.
All I can say is read many of the comments in this thread, this board and other Rift boards and you will see the arguments I have been making have been repeated through them all so I'm closer to stating fact than you are with you pie in the sky claims while not backed up with hard figures. And these comments are not just from the embittered old skool burened out vets.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Sure it has raiding & dungeon farming, Sure it has four instanced pvp maps and yes it has repetitive dailies.
But you know what? People love that stuff!
And i know it bothers you to read that but its true.
people could label RIFT a clone all they want. because it is mostly a well made knock off.
I say mostly because with 1.3 we now have Open world pvp.
Sure it isnt DAOC, But its incredibly enjoyable and the game has open world content that people actually take part in.
Something you dont do in WoW, Lotro or any of the other themeparks "Rift copied".
So keep blasting it, Talk your crap and I'll be right here on my super packed shard fighting off massive invasions, killing hundreds of guardians in the open world pvp and having a wonderful time doing everythign you guys hate lol!
All I can say is read many of the comments in this thread, this board and other Rift boards and you will see the arguments I have been making have been repeated through them all so I'm closer to stating fact than you are with you pie in the sky claims while not backed up with hard figures. And these comments are not just from the embittered old skool burened out vets.
What you're doing here is called a 'fallacy': in this case it's the 'a lot of other people are saying it too, so it must be right'.
It's a fallacy, because a lot of people thinking/saying the same doesn't make something a fact or true - for example, a lot of people in Salem thought that some among them were witches and should therefore be killed, but it didn't make their collective opinion true - and besides that it ignores the mass of people thinking/saying differently. In short, you posting your opinion doesn't mean that your opinion is the ultimate truth and everything what other people think differently is false, it's still just your own subjective viewpoint, how you see things.
Anyway, all I did was give my explanation and view on that video, if I had known that you'd get so much in a spaz about it that you kept on resorting to insults and personal attacks, I wouldn't even have bothered. Well, wizened up now, I'm out.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I originally began Rift as a beta player. It seemed new and somewhat different from WoW. I am an avid roleplayer, so after beta testing, I began my adventure on the Faeblight server, as it is listed as PvE/RP. After 5 months of play, I was suddenly notified that my toon name, Argentwulf, was in violation of their rp naming conventions.
I asked them to provide specifics as to what naming conventions I had violated and was emailed a very vaguely worded reply. I, in turn, asked them exactly how my chosen name was in violation, as it did not seem to violate any of the conventions they had sent, and why many other players with names such as partyelf, lemmingofevil, dellorasass (violating their sentence/sentence fragment convention) lestatt, exar, drakhan (violating their "pop culture reference" convention) or names like broken, rhyme, squirrel were not being subjected to the same rules that I was.
The reply I was sent was pretty straight forward: either I acquiesce to their ruling or my account would be suspended. Having no alternative, I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, citing their discriminatory policies. In retaliation, my account was suspended.
Add to that the immense lag time during peak playing hours (often causing your group in an instance to wipe continuously), the fact that your character will have your soul tree wiped (forcing you to have to respec and repay for training) everytime they "rebalance" gameplay, and the fact that they're customer service is not very service oriented, makes for a very unrewarding and unsatisfactory gaming experience. Anyone wishing to play Rift be forewarned they are highly discriminatory and will subject you to harrassment if you complain about their policies.
I have to agree. Considering the amount of effort it takes to reach top level crafting ability, the rarity of materials for the highest (epic) level recipes and the fact that the best item you can craft still can't compare favorablty to what you can get in a random drop at the t1 and t2 level of instances, makes the crafting system rather a waste of time. Even at the lower levels of crafting the resources are usually farmed by bots who, in turn, sell the mats to make plats, which they then blatantly advertise for sale for real currency within the game itself.
Overall, I'd give them an A- for effort, but a D at best for the usefulness of their crafting system.
I totally agree with OP about the combat focused trend in MMOs (and that Rift have one of the most dull quests in the universe)
even tho I still enjoy the combat part I find it sad as well
MMOs really need living economics and heavy focus on crafting (not just USEFULL and more powerful items than drop loot but on the co-work as well) it is pretty much what made MMOs popular in the first place
If AAA MMOs inspired themselves from Runescape (well, I played RS like 4 years ago, Im not sure if it is the same game as before so take that in moderation pls) I'd be very happy
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Originally posted by blisstree I originally began Rift as a beta player. It seemed new and somewhat different from WoW. I am an avid roleplayer, so after beta testing, I began my adventure on the Faeblight server, as it is listed as PvE/RP. After 5 months of play, I was suddenly notified that my toon name, Argentwulf, was in violation of their rp naming conventions. I asked them to provide specifics as to what naming conventions I had violated and was emailed a very vaguely worded reply. I, in turn, asked them exactly how my chosen name was in violation, as it did not seem to violate any of the conventions they had sent, and why many other players with names such as partyelf, lemmingofevil, dellorasass (violating their sentence/sentence fragment convention) lestatt, exar, drakhan (violating their "pop culture reference" convention) or names like broken, rhyme, squirrel were not being subjected to the same rules that I was. The reply I was sent was pretty straight forward: either I acquiesce to their ruling or my account would be suspended. Having no alternative, I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, citing their discriminatory policies. In retaliation, my account was suspended. Add to that the immense lag time during peak playing hours (often causing your group in an instance to wipe continuously), the fact that your character will have your soul tree wiped (forcing you to have to respec and repay for training) everytime they "rebalance" gameplay, and the fact that they're customer service is not very service oriented, makes for a very unrewarding and unsatisfactory gaming experience. Anyone wishing to play Rift be forewarned they are highly discriminatory and will subject you to harrassment if you complain about their policies.
You say five months. Was that something you used during betas too? If so, Trion never sent you anything during that time either?
I can think of three reasons why they might ban your name:
1. Copyright infrigment from some IP. Could be a name on a list that a company didn't want used. Kind of like Spiderman, Batman etc are names you cannot use in DCUO.
2. A GM has that name. Explanatory. You may have been stepping on a GM in game's name or something or they wanted it :P
3. Name could be used by a NPC character somewhere in the game or they could be planning on using that name as part of future lore.
Even if it was one of those, they should have been detailed about exactly why it was banned.
The main reason i didn't like this game was how easy and fast it was to level, nowadays its all about instant gratification, in my EQ days i was excited when i ended a grind day getting maybe 50% into a level or if it was a good grind day a full level once i got higher into the leveling of the game, i felt like i actually accomplished something in games like that, these games nowadays though are programmed so even 8 year olds can play it to end game fast just so they can make more money, which is also what WoW did, dumbing down MMOs are the new norm.
Really. Just stay away from it. I was dumb enough to let some friends talk me into coming back. You know "oh look so much changed" trash.
You know, Rift is in a way the end and the lowest common nominator of MMOs. Look at UO, EQ and SWG to see how it began. As a vast, complex idea with many many subsystems. Especially these days as SWG closes, you see what a vast collection of systems a MMO once was. And it seems as if with each new MMO, what was a MMo was less and less. Until Rift is the most minimal definition. Kill stuff. That's it. Yes it has crafting. But I'll be damned it THAT is crafting at all! It's just some figleaf replacement for crafting! There is really NOTHING but kill X of Y. It is the finality and ending of the downward spiral. A spiral greatly accelerated by WOW.
You see, all Trion adds now is a copy of the same event. Find 7 of X in Sanctum as daily and exchange it for shells, coins whatevers. Every invasion is exactly the same. And no matter how they rename the "events" it is always the one same mechanic of kill/gather X of Y. Nothing else. The vastness of game possiblities of SWG or UO is a forgotten shadow now. And while games like LOTRO at least had SOME other stuff to do than kill kill kill.., this has nothing else. No peaceful planting of crops, no housing, no music system, nothing. People only run run run and kill kill kill. I really LOATHE this development. And you see, whereas LOTRO and WOW added these "token collection" way to waste the time of players with minimal effort after they had CONSIDERABLE other content, Rift starts it already, when it is new and while Rift is VERY small and limited content wise. And what do they add? A raid many won't ever see and another token collection quest. Copy paste copy paste.
And the rest? Nothing to write home about. And handful of dungeon you grind OVER and OVER and OVER called "endgame" and one of the damn WORST PVP I have seen in some time. FOUR arenas with all the letdowns arena PVP always has. (Meaning, it sucks. Only OPEN world pvp is real. Why it has none like castle sieges or what is beyond me.) THIS cheap PVP could be stitched together with an editor by a few programmers in a long weekend!
I am so disappointed by this game. It is SO dull with it's endless hectic, like in Tabula Rasa, there is no rest, no calm story moments, no civilization you FEEL you want to fight for, nothing. Just endless spawns of Rifts tossed at you. Always the same drill. I am so done with these kill focussed MMOs, where essentially killing things ALL THE DAMN TIME is the ONLY thing there! I don't WANT that! I want MMOs like SWG! Like UO! WORLDS, not some frigging kill park!
Sigh. Maybe Arch Age can bring that back, since I kinda doubt SWTOR or GW2 will be anything but kill kill kill with a nice wrap around.
Sorry if that offends you, but I just realized Rift is just a very simplistic and mediocre game. I am just tired wasting my time on trash. Shiny wears off fast. And there is just no fundament to remedy it. Not at all.
/rant over
okay so if i replace RIFT with WoW it's the same rant.
wow has a soul.... otherwise, ya
Agreed. WoW also has personality, which doesn't come through in Rift. It feels almost as lifeless as the blank stares on the faces of the players and NPCs.
"If I'm not enjoying the game from the beginning then why do I need to torture myself to get to "end cap" to see the "real" game? WTF? Why can't the WHOLE GAME BE THE REAL GAME" - TheExplorer
You obviously haven't seen great graphics, Rifts' graphics is like a blurry mix of particle effects with grey tone all over the environment.
Smooth Performance - YES
Fun Combat - YES
oh god
Solid, Interactive Storytelling - YES
Yes reading quest text is very interactive, you even said this yourself below "Did you read the quests when you played Rift?" If interactive is reading a block of words, we wouldn't be here participating in interactive multimedia called "game"
Chat Rooms and Social Media - YES
It doesn't do the things I don't fully care about:
Crafting - NO
Exploration - Somewhat
Do-it-Yourself Story - NO
As for the OP -
Did you read the quests when you played Rift?
I am guessing you just ran out and checked off the requirements.
That's your bad, not Rifts.
Why is that his fault? He's bored of the chunk of words?
Rift does a great job of making my favorite part of gaming graphically impressive and story driven. You just have to read the quests/the dialogue during the quests to get anything out of it. Context matters in Rift, and in that it succeeds.
Not geared toward "sandbox" by any means:
Rift definitely is neither focused upon how awesomely varied and involved an experience the game can be outside of combat nor how much a RL loser can forget his life and have some compelling persona on a video game. This is no place to "live" for years. It's more about reading and interacting with a world that has it's own colorful history and future and playing a part in the story through your combat.
If you were expecting some "sandbox" experience and like to stand at an anvil and hammer out virtual armor, weapons and assorted items, then you want to wait on Rift until they implement it (if they do).
As for Combat - I like combat. You give me the choice between sitting at a sewing loom and bullrushing into an enemy, bashing it to interupt its casting and otherwise trying to kill/submit it, that tunic will remain unsewn.
It is completely legal and ethically permissable to sew, blacksmith, cook, etc IRL, but vigilantism is illegal. Since I am not in the military, these games are the only place I can/would hurt someone bodily on a daily basis. Though I am a BJJ/Boxing/MMA fighter, I am not a sadist or a vigilante, so I don't hurt people IRL.
Why people are so weird and like to hover around these little worlds and let like pass them by to make trinkets fro one another in the games has always made me laugh. But it it's your thing, go for it. I am a big enough dork to like playing Magic and video games, so who am I to judge.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
To be honest... aren't all mmo's in the same boat?
I can't find 1 game that doesn't provide the same classic quest hub, kill 5 wolves/get 5 pelts questing from lvl 1-max level, dungeons til cap level, raid, repeat raid content cycle until new raid content is avail, learn to conquer next raid, farm next raid, til next raid (nice sub-routine there)... do this until expansion. Start routine over again, subbing lvl1-Max for Old Max to New Max level.
As for PvP... there is no open world PvP. If there is open world PvP... it's extremely rare, happens in very small skirmishes, and doesn't last long. PvP doesn't matter to the game world... unless it provides access to 1 dungeon/raid for a few hours at a time.
The main reason i didn't like this game was how easy and fast it was to level, nowadays its all about instant gratification, in my EQ days i was excited when i ended a grind day getting maybe 50% into a level or if it was a good grind day a full level once i got higher into the leveling of the game, i felt like i actually accomplished something in games like that, these games nowadays though are programmed so even 8 year olds can play it to end game fast just so they can make more money, which is also what WoW did, dumbing down MMOs are the new norm.
You're clouded by nostalgia. There really wasn't anything terribly fun about super slow grinding or de-levelling back in EQ. It maybe gave you a false sense of accomplishment because you wasted 8 hours grinding half a level. How is reducing this repetitive tedium dumbing down? We look so fondly back at EQ because for many of us it was our first MMO and it was shiney and new.
Comments
Yes I did read your replies and replied to each one, I'm finding this very difficult its like banging my head against a wall if you cannot understand what you are infact posting is not objective but judgmental, scattered with hearsay with no actual facts then I'm at a loss for words. I originally posted a reply to someone who believed Trion never said any of the quotes in that trailer thats why I used the link to argue the point that they infact did say what I quoted, then you posted your comments to debunk what I said its as simple as that and was not ridiculing or downtalking anything or anyone, I try to argue with facts, you just seem to want to believe it was that way and took offence and came in like you are a knight in shining armour defending the honour of Rift. But you actually did not understand the debate in the first place it seems.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Please avoid baiting other users into arguments.
I think people do not acknowledge development over experience. Games are loops that are repeated over and over and no matter the game so is your experience.
Rift puts you right into a rift/raid at the end of the starting area. Which gives casual players a feeling of shock and awe "Im in a raid? Thats so awesome!!!", because other games fail to use this mechanic until "end game". I will admit rifts and invasions are far to common but it is apart of thre lore of the game. Oh, btw, for those of you who don't know what lore is, its the story. I just know most of you forget the story aspect of games and just criticize mechanics you do not understand.
Rift is a great game from a few angles. It is refreshing with content, although some what familiar, the PvP is slightly better than average the instances are fast and challenging, and world events are fun! You cannot ignore how much dedication that was put into this game in development. Its clear, it was one of the few mmo's that had a stable launch, it is well polished, and they didn't add in features that were not fully finished, like a market that can't be used til x.x update.
I played this game and I did grow tired of it. But unlike every other mmo I played I have nothing bad to say about it. Trion did a great job creating this game and did an even better one maintaining it. I look forward to the expansions, just to see some new material.
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Let's summarise the core points I was making for convenience's sake:
1. in that video, it looks to me like regular players giving their opinion and experience impressions in sort of an interview.
2. like I said in my arguments, if I'd have said the things those guild gamers stated, I could have defended that viewpoint with solid explanations, it wouldn't have been a lie. Yes, Rift is a complete AAA MMORPG in all its features even if its world and amount of content is less than other AAA MMO's, yes, Rift does have dynamic PvE content that you won't find in the current other AAA MMO's, and yes, Rift is next-gen in the sense that its server infrastructure and its automated dynamic content are steps forward, even if Rift as a whole imo isn't really a 'next-gen MMO' (if there ever have been those).
You gave your explanation why you think Trion lied or didn't come true on their earlier statements, I gave mine by saying that that's a false perception and that all these guild gamers' statements actually were grounded on truth and reality, only not what some people had expected hearing those statements. Opinions can differ, I gave mine, I know yours, I don't see any new or other arguments rising from this debate besides a rehash so to me this is the point where I agree to disagree.
edit: and like DLangley said, try to avoid the personal attacks and (incorrect) ad hominem assumptions next time that seem to accompany some of your posts. Thank you
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And to add to that, like I've said before (probably multiple times in this thread), Rift is the most stable and polished launch I have seen in mmo history. I have not played a game at launch which had performance this good. I haven't played a launch with as few bugs as this launch, i have crashed to desktop fewer times.....maybe only once than any other game and when compared to all other games at launch, this has by far more to do than any other game I've played at launch. EQ, EQ2, CoH, LotRO, AoC, WAR, Tabula Rasa, DCUO, and even the elephant in the room ....WoW.
I believe you could solidly argue that this game is more 'complete', polished and stable than any of those games were on day one and up to what ....like month 3 now?
It is absolutely true that Trion proved you can release a game in this state of polish and stability, and thus raised the bar for all future games, just as the quoted player said.
This fantastic feature is also RIFT's curse, but you don't realize it until later on, and why the game sours for many players later.
Starting you off in the game with the best feature OF the game has the unintended side effect of making you take it for granted or in the worst case, burning out on it. Imagine if another MMO had a feature that allowed you to see it's main draw from the start or it's endgame at the beginning. That's what RIFT does.
The rifts you fight at level 10 are the same rifts you will fight at level 50 for the most part with small differences. Different color mobs, different 'attunements' such as fire, water, life, etc, and different types (human zombies instead of human werewolves). If you only fought one rift a level, that's 50 rifts at your max level. Think about that.. 50 rifts.
By the time most people are 50, they are no longer doing rifts for the fun aspect; it's primarily for the loot or to get a title. The charm has worn off because there is only so much you can do with a rift. Things come out and you have to kill them... period.
Usually with games there is a buildup of sorts.. getting skills, doing some quests, working toward some higher goal for your character. But in rift, they give the hook off right from the start which is good and bad. So much so that by endgame (50) rifts are often passed up by the overwhelming majority of players who view them then as a nuisance.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I couldn't agree more. I made the mistake of buying the game after playing the starting area and I regret it now and will not be wasting any more money or time on this "game". Remember when games used to be challenging instead of repeatedly hitting kill buttons? Rift is very nice to look at and that's about it. Otherwise it is same same same same ad infinitum.
The argument that seems to come up mostly in favour of it is "it might have a small world but it's packed" well yes, it is packed to the point of hardly being able to move anywhere without being constantly attacked - why they bothered with mounts in this game is beyond me, you have to be on foot to fight everything in your path.
Another thing I have heard in defense of Rift is that it is so very polished. Well the graphics and graphic engine is indeed polished, but shiny does indeed tire quickly.
I was stupid for spending money on this game at all, I would be even more stupid to spend any more of my time on it, or for that matter in talking about it. It's gone, it's done, I can breathe again and forget it now. My nightmare has come to an end, phew.
The people in the video were Alpha testers and the game was something else at that time.It doesn't mean that it was not a WoW clone but it was not that grindfest shit that it is now at end game...a lot of us don't play anymore.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Maverick and this sums up the whole tet-a-tet, your attitude on this forum and what I was trying to get at, he means you as well, :facepalm:
You've have completely missed the point as I suspected in my last post before Mr Langley interjected, you cannot boil all criticism down to haters/burned out vets/embittered old skoolers and their perception of how they interpreted the claims in promotinal video's when Rift was released, you are basically defending misleading marketing tactics and that as I said in my initial reply says to me you are just an apologist and I feel all your retorts have had no substance to them but you keep thinking they are objective facts which they are not because you haven't backed anything you have said with a source, ie the subs you claim Rift has, and thats was my whole point all along, but it went straight over your head like your understanding of the moderation was directed at me alone.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
? I was aware his words were directed to everyone including me in this thread, but I don't have to advice myself in my own post to refrain from flame baiting, that would've looked silly if I did that, right?
Then again, here you are: again you address NONE of my arguments in the post that you quoted, again you use a small part of that whole post ignoring the rest to resort to personal attacks and insults and flamebaiting. Anyway, I'm done with you, from your last posts it has become clear to me that you just have nothing sensible to reply on my arguments anymore, and you just blatantly ignore what I'm trying to say and any attempt to steer it back towards Rift and that video as topic instead of the personal attacks over and over again. Hf with trying to derail this discussion into a downward spiral on your own, I'm done with discussing this topic with you.
edit: I see you edited your post to make it less like a 100% personal attack and add some arguments to it. The wrong argument though, my first reply on your subjective interpretation of that video had nothing to do at all with subs.
In fact, that entered the discussion laterc as a reply upon one of your later comments, and this is what I stated later "Looking at player activity trend figures right now (in various monitoring tools) I'd guess they still manage to hold close to half the player numbers that they had in the launch weeks."
No one has their sub numbers but neither do you, so your guess is as good as mine but my speculation is at least based upon trend figures from player activity tools. If you want to disbelieve the 'nearing 1 million sales', another argument, I'm sure google will lead you to the Trion devs stating that. Again, this has nothing to do with my first reply on your video, nor the arguments that you interpreted subjectively in them.
As for backing up, I don't see you backing up your own arguments with sources at all, in fact you just gave your personal subjective opinion on why you thought what they said was untrue, while I gave mine on why I thought they weren't untrue. Don't resort to namecalling again, I'm not calling you a biased tunnelvision Rift hater so I don't see why you should resort to calling me an apologist, especially since I only gave my opinion on why I think the people in that video were truthful to their statements.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Agree 100% with the orginal poster (and thats rare!). Its uninspiring, formularic and dull as dish water. It's WoW with good graphics.. vastly overrated by Critics all over the place who sadly think that MMORPG's = EVERQUEST/WOW. It will continue to thrive since so many people who joined our pass time with WoW know no different.
Sad, but I think there is room for all tastes - Rift/WoW = the X-factor Singles of MMO - popular because they are popular, not because they are deep, but because they are shallow.
If your looking for something orginal, go look at the Free-to-play games out there, there are so many to choose from. Or if you think P2P is the best way ahead, check out some of the games that Critics set at mediocre scores 70+, there are real gems to be found that are orginal and compelling and not another Everquest clone.
All I can say is read many of the comments in this thread, this board and other Rift boards and you will see the arguments I have been making have been repeated through them all so I'm closer to stating fact than you are with you pie in the sky claims while not backed up with hard figures. And these comments are not just from the embittered old skool burened out vets.
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Yep go ahead slam RIFT.
Sure it has raiding & dungeon farming, Sure it has four instanced pvp maps and yes it has repetitive dailies.
But you know what? People love that stuff!
And i know it bothers you to read that but its true.
people could label RIFT a clone all they want. because it is mostly a well made knock off.
I say mostly because with 1.3 we now have Open world pvp.
Sure it isnt DAOC, But its incredibly enjoyable and the game has open world content that people actually take part in.
Something you dont do in WoW, Lotro or any of the other themeparks "Rift copied".
So keep blasting it, Talk your crap and I'll be right here on my super packed shard fighting off massive invasions, killing hundreds of guardians in the open world pvp and having a wonderful time doing everythign you guys hate lol!
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
What you're doing here is called a 'fallacy': in this case it's the 'a lot of other people are saying it too, so it must be right'.
It's a fallacy, because a lot of people thinking/saying the same doesn't make something a fact or true - for example, a lot of people in Salem thought that some among them were witches and should therefore be killed, but it didn't make their collective opinion true - and besides that it ignores the mass of people thinking/saying differently. In short, you posting your opinion doesn't mean that your opinion is the ultimate truth and everything what other people think differently is false, it's still just your own subjective viewpoint, how you see things.
Anyway, all I did was give my explanation and view on that video, if I had known that you'd get so much in a spaz about it that you kept on resorting to insults and personal attacks, I wouldn't even have bothered. Well, wizened up now, I'm out.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I originally began Rift as a beta player. It seemed new and somewhat different from WoW. I am an avid roleplayer, so after beta testing, I began my adventure on the Faeblight server, as it is listed as PvE/RP. After 5 months of play, I was suddenly notified that my toon name, Argentwulf, was in violation of their rp naming conventions.
I asked them to provide specifics as to what naming conventions I had violated and was emailed a very vaguely worded reply. I, in turn, asked them exactly how my chosen name was in violation, as it did not seem to violate any of the conventions they had sent, and why many other players with names such as partyelf, lemmingofevil, dellorasass (violating their sentence/sentence fragment convention) lestatt, exar, drakhan (violating their "pop culture reference" convention) or names like broken, rhyme, squirrel were not being subjected to the same rules that I was.
The reply I was sent was pretty straight forward: either I acquiesce to their ruling or my account would be suspended. Having no alternative, I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, citing their discriminatory policies. In retaliation, my account was suspended.
Add to that the immense lag time during peak playing hours (often causing your group in an instance to wipe continuously), the fact that your character will have your soul tree wiped (forcing you to have to respec and repay for training) everytime they "rebalance" gameplay, and the fact that they're customer service is not very service oriented, makes for a very unrewarding and unsatisfactory gaming experience. Anyone wishing to play Rift be forewarned they are highly discriminatory and will subject you to harrassment if you complain about their policies.
I have to agree. Considering the amount of effort it takes to reach top level crafting ability, the rarity of materials for the highest (epic) level recipes and the fact that the best item you can craft still can't compare favorablty to what you can get in a random drop at the t1 and t2 level of instances, makes the crafting system rather a waste of time. Even at the lower levels of crafting the resources are usually farmed by bots who, in turn, sell the mats to make plats, which they then blatantly advertise for sale for real currency within the game itself.
Overall, I'd give them an A- for effort, but a D at best for the usefulness of their crafting system.
I totally agree with OP about the combat focused trend in MMOs (and that Rift have one of the most dull quests in the universe)
even tho I still enjoy the combat part I find it sad as well
MMOs really need living economics and heavy focus on crafting (not just USEFULL and more powerful items than drop loot but on the co-work as well) it is pretty much what made MMOs popular in the first place
If AAA MMOs inspired themselves from Runescape (well, I played RS like 4 years ago, Im not sure if it is the same game as before so take that in moderation pls) I'd be very happy
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
I can think of three reasons why they might ban your name:
1. Copyright infrigment from some IP. Could be a name on a list that a company didn't want used. Kind of like Spiderman, Batman etc are names you cannot use in DCUO.
2. A GM has that name. Explanatory. You may have been stepping on a GM in game's name or something or they wanted it :P
3. Name could be used by a NPC character somewhere in the game or they could be planning on using that name as part of future lore.
Even if it was one of those, they should have been detailed about exactly why it was banned.
"TO MICHAEL!"
The main reason i didn't like this game was how easy and fast it was to level, nowadays its all about instant gratification, in my EQ days i was excited when i ended a grind day getting maybe 50% into a level or if it was a good grind day a full level once i got higher into the leveling of the game, i felt like i actually accomplished something in games like that, these games nowadays though are programmed so even 8 year olds can play it to end game fast just so they can make more money, which is also what WoW did, dumbing down MMOs are the new norm.
Agreed. WoW also has personality, which doesn't come through in Rift. It feels almost as lifeless as the blank stares on the faces of the players and NPCs.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
To be honest... aren't all mmo's in the same boat?
I can't find 1 game that doesn't provide the same classic quest hub, kill 5 wolves/get 5 pelts questing from lvl 1-max level, dungeons til cap level, raid, repeat raid content cycle until new raid content is avail, learn to conquer next raid, farm next raid, til next raid (nice sub-routine there)... do this until expansion. Start routine over again, subbing lvl1-Max for Old Max to New Max level.
As for PvP... there is no open world PvP. If there is open world PvP... it's extremely rare, happens in very small skirmishes, and doesn't last long. PvP doesn't matter to the game world... unless it provides access to 1 dungeon/raid for a few hours at a time.
Disappointed in the genre as a whole.
You're clouded by nostalgia. There really wasn't anything terribly fun about super slow grinding or de-levelling back in EQ. It maybe gave you a false sense of accomplishment because you wasted 8 hours grinding half a level. How is reducing this repetitive tedium dumbing down? We look so fondly back at EQ because for many of us it was our first MMO and it was shiney and new.
Watch this and see what Rift COULD have done, but chose to make WoW instead.
All mmos are not in the same boat as Rift.
"TO MICHAEL!"