Maybe it is just me but people seem to be coming up with issue they either want to exist and fear they will exist without any evidence to support it.
some of you people are taking a swings at phantoms. because you fear what is not. rationalizing it in your mind so it becomes real to you while no one else see what you see. but becuase you keep whining about it people start picking up that fear and thust becomes mob rule. therefore you think it is justified to whine about the issue because others do.
well if the mob decided to rape someone does that make it right no use your head people. instead of thinking of the problem think of a solution.
besides Bioware has stated they plan on releasing information on some of the endgame content at comiccon and some information of things they plan that have never been done in endgame. so hold your blasters and wait to see what they have come up with before you start inventing problems and issues that do not yet exist.
I can understand your frustration with the fact that several people are basing concerns based on speculation on what are limited facts. But I have to pose again, how is this any worse than the people who are doing the same, except spinning positive speculation based on the very same limited facts?
If you're going to criticize those who have hesitant or pessimistic view due to lack of 'proof', then you should also criticize those who have an optimistic view and think the game is going to be amazing.
It's a two way street when it comes to speculation.
Maybe it is just me but people seem to be coming up with issue they either want to exist and fear they will exist without any evidence to support it.
some of you people are taking a swings at phantoms. because you fear what is not. rationalizing it in your mind so it becomes real to you while no one else see what you see. but becuase you keep whining about it people start picking up that fear and thust becomes mob rule. therefore you think it is justified to whine about the issue because others do.
well if the mob decided to rape someone does that make it right no use your head people. instead of thinking of the problem think of a solution.
besides Bioware has stated they plan on releasing information on some of the endgame content at comiccon and some information of things they plan that have never been done in endgame. so hold your blasters and wait to see what they have come up with before you start inventing problems and issues that do not yet exist.
I can understand your frustration with the fact that several people are basing concerns based on speculation on what are limited facts. But I have to pose again, how is this any worse than the people who are doing the same, except spinning positive speculation based on the very same limited facts?
If you're going to criticize those who have hesitant or pessimistic view due to lack of 'proof', then you should also criticize those who have an optimistic view and think the game is going to be amazing.
It's a two way street when it comes to speculation.
i forgot lol i should of thought of that. u have a very good point. here is another statement that applies to every one here passion rules reason this just happened to me. because i am excited for the game i did not think to be opne minded enough to possitive comments as well
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Probally because Sw: ToR is just another in a long line of world of warcraft clones, the people who aren't blind see all the signs, while the rest either don't see them or deny it. It has all the makings of a wow clone, boring generic mmorpg combat, linear quest grind, most likely will have meaningless worthless endgame like wow. DaoC's endgame was awesome u raid then go pvp in frontier for control of keeps and stuff that gave your entire faction bonuses. It had a use for the raid gear, unlike wow, rift and most other wow clones, where you raid then you have no use for the gear anymore. I wouldn't call stuff like that endgame.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Its probably already been stated, but in answer to the op .. its the mmorpg.com forums. That's just what happens here. I like to try just about every mmo released but some folk only want to eat chicken fingers and fish sticks even when you take them out to an expensive steak house, know what I mean?
I don't hate the game... but the game isn't exactly something I'm dying to play.
If I were to guess as to what most of the hate is about it's the fact the game is nothing new. A re-skinned WoW in Star Wars fashions. People are getting tired of tab-target theme-park MMOs.
People dont want to admit the game they have put so much time into is out dated so they try and knock the new kid on the block
Or maybe, just maybe, there are legitimate reasons to be both excited and disappointed about this game based on the info we have now.
This is how I feel. Certain features of the game look really cool to me, for example: The cinematics, the different classes, the "bioware-rpg feel," etc.
But then I find certain features of the game disappointing, for example: Space combat on rails, advancement system is still essentially quest based, etc.
The reason that I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the game is because I care about it overall. I want it to be a fun game, and yes, the fact that the space aspect of Star Wars has been reduced to a minigame is a little annoying.
It is okay to have opinions regarding a game, but until you've actually played it: That opinion is based on nothing.
No, it's based on what information we have before the release. Yes, people's interpretations of said information may prove innaccurate, but there are definitely things that are not likely to change.
For example:
1. Traditional MMORPG quests will have the added bioware touch by having things like dialog and fully voice acted story sequences.
2. Space combat will be a tunnel shooter.
3. There will be companion characters.
I think those are all pretty much solid "facts" at this point. It is perfectly valid to have a positive or negative opinion based on them.
It is okay to have opinions regarding a game, but until you've actually played it: That opinion is based on nothing.
No, it's based on what information we have before the release. Yes, people's interpretations of said information may prove innaccurate, but there are definitely things that are not likely to change.
For example:
1. Traditional MMORPG quests will have the added bioware touch by having things like dialog and fully voice acted story sequences.
2. Space combat will be a tunnel shooter.
3. There will be companion characters.
I think those are all pretty much solid "facts" at this point. It is perfectly valid to have a positive or negative opinion based on them.
i agree, things that you've seen like those you stated are in.
I'd wait on the end-game though and pvp, some of them haven't been fully released yet. We have 1 out of 2 maybe 3 warzones. the rest of the open world pvp to explain, we have 1 raid with unknown mechanics in them. Most of the end-game stuff hasn't been explained enough to know for certain what it will entail, Just to say we have raids doesn't In my opinion tell enough. These raids could have multiple parties trying to complete one task. One group going to the control room, another to engineering while the third is trying to hold off reinforcements.
If it turns out end-game is simply what you do in WoW then yeah i can see people having problems. But i think for end-game it's a bit soon.
But if you have a problem with the combat as it stands now, then i can understand. Things like tab targeting using skills cool downs. These are not going to change. They are core aspects of the game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The way I see it is hate comes mainly from those who hunger to see an mmo that breaks the mold completely and innovates across all/most aspects of the features found in any typical mmo game.
Despite the hours and hours of voices and hours of hours of storyline, we still have point and click combat and it appears to me (i might be wrong here) that the decisions we make, only impacts ours storyline but not in the open world.
With GW2 also on the horizon which is bringing innovation in pretty much all areas while at the same time having no monthly fees, these same people start making comparisons between what GW2 will have to offer and SW:TOR. Again, this leads to more hate for SW:TOR.
And ofc there are those who simply aren't into Star Wars.
We can say the opposite for those that are highly anticipating for this game to come out and who really do not mind lack of innovation. After all, a good storyline, cinematic experience and excellent voices can easily immerse you into the game world and compensate for the lack of innovation to be had with this game.
Personally, SW:TOR isn't my thing. First, because it is set in Star Wars universe which I am definately not a fan of. Second, it doesn't seem to do anything too innovative besides adding in tons of voiceovers and story. Lastly, because it will have monthly fee attached.
People dont want to admit the game they have put so much time into is out dated so they try and knock the new kid on the block
Or maybe, just maybe, there are legitimate reasons to be both excited and disappointed about this game based on the info we have now.
This is how I feel. Certain features of the game look really cool to me, for example: The cinematics, the different classes, the "bioware-rpg feel," etc.
But then I find certain features of the game disappointing, for example: Space combat on rails, advancement system is still essentially quest based, etc.
The reason that I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the game is because I care about it overall. I want it to be a fun game, and yes, the fact that the space aspect of Star Wars has been reduced to a minigame is a little annoying.
"based on the info" unless you have done beta, it is really hard to knock this game especially with the track record that bio ware has, I will trust in them and take it from there
Bioware has a track-record of story-rich single-player rpg's.
With that out of the way, I caution myself to never act in a manner of a bullying basher about a game that I haven't played, nor act in a manner of an elementary giddy school-girl about a game that I haven't played.
I find that, when it comes to mmorpg's, a healthy sense of very cautious optimism with a mix of concern and optimistic anticipation works for me.
It's called envy. Tor has a large following and fans of a different style of gaming can't stand that. No one wants to play in their sandbox so they spend time on these forums acting like know it alls. Personally I find it quite amusing that they make such fuss over a video game,but I guess drama queens need something to occupy their time with;)
People are getting tired of tab-target theme-park MMOs.
I couldn't disagree with this statement more.
If this where in fact the case then games like Vandictus would be successful and since they aren't you simple can't say that.
Also if this where the case then people would be bored with games like the Halo, God of War, CoD, and every single sports game by EA, and since they aren't this statement is false.
People dont want to admit the game they have put so much time into is out dated so they try and knock the new kid on the block
Or maybe, just maybe, there are legitimate reasons to be both excited and disappointed about this game based on the info we have now.
This is how I feel. Certain features of the game look really cool to me, for example: The cinematics, the different classes, the "bioware-rpg feel," etc.
But then I find certain features of the game disappointing, for example: Space combat on rails, advancement system is still essentially quest based, etc.
The reason that I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the game is because I care about it overall. I want it to be a fun game, and yes, the fact that the space aspect of Star Wars has been reduced to a minigame is a little annoying.
"based on the info" unless you have done beta, it is really hard to knock this game especially with the track record that bio ware has, I will trust in them and take it from there
Imagine that you hate ham. You despise it. Every time you have ever eaten ham, it has caused you to vomit in disgust. Just the thought of ham makes you nauseous.
Now imagine that, much to your delight, you have been invited to a dinner cooked by a world reknown chef. But then you find out that the dish is going to be ham. Clearly, you would be disappointed and upset.
Yes, it's true, maybe you'll try the chef's ham and he will completely change your mind and turn you into a ham lover. But let's be honest, you've tried ham multiple times before and every time it made you vomit. It's unlikely that you're going to mysteriously fall in love with it this time.
Moral of the story is that people can get a good idea of what they like/dislike from past experiences and make inferences about how they will like things they haven't experienced yet by examining the information about it.
Imagine that you hate ham. You despise it. Every time you have ever eaten ham, it has caused you to vomit in disgust. Just the thought of ham makes you nauseous.
Now imagine that, much to your delight, you have been invited to a dinner cooked by a world reknown chef. But then you find out that the dish is going to be ham. Clearly, you would be disappointed and upset.
Yes, it's true, maybe you'll try the chef's ham and he will completely change your mind and turn you into a ham lover. But let's be honest, you've tried ham multiple times before and every time it made you vomit. It's unlikely that you're going to mysteriously fall in love with it this time.
Moral of the story is that people can get a good idea of what they like/dislike from past experiences and make inferences about how they will like things they haven't experienced yet by examining the information about it.
Here's the thing though, If you don't like ham, are you going to visit the ham section of a food forum?
That's what i see a bunch of in the TOR section. Sure we're all entitled to state our opinions, but what's the point in reading someones opinion if they dislike the core of a game? There's really nothing to take away or apply to the overall discusion in such cases.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Imagine that you hate ham. You despise it. Every time you have ever eaten ham, it has caused you to vomit in disgust. Just the thought of ham makes you nauseous.
Now imagine that, much to your delight, you have been invited to a dinner cooked by a world reknown chef. But then you find out that the dish is going to be ham. Clearly, you would be disappointed and upset.
Yes, it's true, maybe you'll try the chef's ham and he will completely change your mind and turn you into a ham lover. But let's be honest, you've tried ham multiple times before and every time it made you vomit. It's unlikely that you're going to mysteriously fall in love with it this time.
Moral of the story is that people can get a good idea of what they like/dislike from past experiences and make inferences about how they will like things they haven't experienced yet by examining the information about it.
Here's the thing though, If you don't like ham, are you going to visit the ham section of a food forum?
That's what i see a bunch of in the TOR section. Sure we're all entitled to state our opinions, but what's the point in reading someones opinion if they dislike the core of a game? There's really nothing to take away or apply to the overall discusion in such cases.
I agree with you that the people just saying "THIS GAME WILL FAIL!!! OMG OMG!!!" Are utterly unproductive and pointless. These guys are the real haters.
But at the same time there are plenty of people that like certain things about the game, and dislike others. That's where I am, and I think that's where a lot of people that get labeled as "haters" are. For example, I don't like the space combat, but I do like a lot of the RPG features. I think I'll have a lot of fun with this game, but there are parts of it that I'm not happy about.
Going back to the analogy, it would be like if the chef was making ham, potatoes, green beans, rice, etc. You may hate the ham, and you may complain that you can't eat the main course, but you'll still come for everything that you like.
People dont want to admit the game they have put so much time into is out dated so they try and knock the new kid on the block
Or maybe, just maybe, there are legitimate reasons to be both excited and disappointed about this game based on the info we have now.
This is how I feel. Certain features of the game look really cool to me, for example: The cinematics, the different classes, the "bioware-rpg feel," etc.
But then I find certain features of the game disappointing, for example: Space combat on rails, advancement system is still essentially quest based, etc.
The reason that I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the game is because I care about it overall. I want it to be a fun game, and yes, the fact that the space aspect of Star Wars has been reduced to a minigame is a little annoying.
"based on the info" unless you have done beta, it is really hard to knock this game especially with the track record that bio ware has, I will trust in them and take it from there
Imagine that you hate ham. You despise it. Every time you have ever eaten ham, it has caused you to vomit in disgust. Just the thought of ham makes you nauseous.
Now imagine that, much to your delight, you have been invited to a dinner cooked by a world reknown chef. But then you find out that the dish is going to be ham. Clearly, you would be disappointed and upset.
Yes, it's true, maybe you'll try the chef's ham and he will completely change your mind and turn you into a ham lover. But let's be honest, you've tried ham multiple times before and every time it made you vomit. It's unlikely that you're going to mysteriously fall in love with it this time.
Moral of the story is that people can get a good idea of what they like/dislike from past experiences and make inferences about how they will like things they haven't experienced yet by examining the information about it.
Yeah I hear what you're saying and agree. I wish some large dev companies would actually spend money on a sandbox mmo, too. However I also enjoy most of the themepark offerings that have come out.
Your analogy is reasonable except that it leaves out the extreme ham-ophiles. We'll call them Angry Ham Hating Loud Spitters or AHHLS for short hand. The AHHLS aren't content with just not wanting to eat a nice ham dinner. Oh no, if the AHHLS are at a restaurant and see someone enjoying a ham dinner they'll rush over and spit on the ham while loudly proclaiming their dislike for ham and those who eat it. When the ham eater protests that they weren't bothering anyone and just wanted to enjoy their ham in peace, the AHHLS will just scream louder and spit more on the ham.
See that's what people dislike on forums such as this, its not enough for some people to just not like a game they have to hate it and any who like it. Just like the AHHLS in my above analogy.
People dont want to admit the game they have put so much time into is out dated so they try and knock the new kid on the block
Or maybe, just maybe, there are legitimate reasons to be both excited and disappointed about this game based on the info we have now.
This is how I feel. Certain features of the game look really cool to me, for example: The cinematics, the different classes, the "bioware-rpg feel," etc.
But then I find certain features of the game disappointing, for example: Space combat on rails, advancement system is still essentially quest based, etc.
The reason that I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the game is because I care about it overall. I want it to be a fun game, and yes, the fact that the space aspect of Star Wars has been reduced to a minigame is a little annoying.
"based on the info" unless you have done beta, it is really hard to knock this game especially with the track record that bio ware has, I will trust in them and take it from there
Imagine that you hate ham. You despise it. Every time you have ever eaten ham, it has caused you to vomit in disgust. Just the thought of ham makes you nauseous.
Now imagine that, much to your delight, you have been invited to a dinner cooked by a world reknown chef. But then you find out that the dish is going to be ham. Clearly, you would be disappointed and upset.
Yes, it's true, maybe you'll try the chef's ham and he will completely change your mind and turn you into a ham lover. But let's be honest, you've tried ham multiple times before and every time it made you vomit. It's unlikely that you're going to mysteriously fall in love with it this time.
Moral of the story is that people can get a good idea of what they like/dislike from past experiences and make inferences about how they will like things they haven't experienced yet by examining the information about it.
Yeah I hear what you're saying and agree. I wish some large dev companies would actually spend money on a sandbox mmo, too. However I also enjoy most of the themepark offerings that have come out.
Your analogy is reasonable except that it leaves out the extreme ham-ophiles. We'll call them Angry Ham Hating Loud Spitters or AHHLS for short hand. The AHHLS aren't content with just not wanting to eat a nice ham dinner. Oh no, if the AHHLS are at a restaurant and see someone enjoying a ham dinner they'll rush over and spit on the ham while loudly proclaiming their dislike for ham and those who eat it. When the ham eater protests that they weren't bothering anyone and just wanted to enjoy their ham in peace, the AHHLS will just scream louder and spit more on the ham.
See that's what people dislike on forums such as this, its not enough for some people to just not like a game they have to hate it and any who like it. Just like the AHHLS in my above analogy.
Oh yeah I totally agree, those people aren't contributing anything and are just trying to troll basically.
I'm basically only arguing against people who say that you can't ever have a logical negative opinion of a game that is unreleased. And if you do, then your negative opinion is really just some kind of crazy psychological defense mechanism. I.e. "You're just trying to tear down this game because you're jelous or your own game sucks!"
People dont want to admit the game they have put so much time into is out dated so they try and knock the new kid on the block
Or maybe, just maybe, there are legitimate reasons to be both excited and disappointed about this game based on the info we have now.
This is how I feel. Certain features of the game look really cool to me, for example: The cinematics, the different classes, the "bioware-rpg feel," etc.
But then I find certain features of the game disappointing, for example: Space combat on rails, advancement system is still essentially quest based, etc.
The reason that I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the game is because I care about it overall. I want it to be a fun game, and yes, the fact that the space aspect of Star Wars has been reduced to a minigame is a little annoying.
"based on the info" unless you have done beta, it is really hard to knock this game especially with the track record that bio ware has, I will trust in them and take it from there
I keep hearing the argument that a lot of the criticism that comes up about this game is nonsense because we don't have all the facts out yet, so we're just hating on the game.
Well what about all of the optimism around the game?
You're perfectly right, we don't have all the facts. Yet why then is it perfectly acceptable for some posters to fawn over the game and herald is as the best MMO to date... yet any criticism is treated like it's trolling. Both sides have the same limited facts, and if one side doesn't have enough 'facts' to go by to make a call on the game's quality, then neither does the other.
As per Bioware's trackrecord, it's very subjective depending on who you talk to. Also their track record is with single player RPGs, not MMORPGs, apples to oranges.
Everyone is free to have their own critcisms or praises of the upcoming game. In the end though, ALL such views are subject to the fact that the game hasn't even released yet, and neither criticisms or praises have anymore legitimacy than the other at this point in time.
Here's the thing though, If you don't like ham, are you going to visit the ham section of a food forum?
That's what i see a bunch of in the TOR section. Sure we're all entitled to state our opinions, but what's the point in reading someones opinion if they dislike the core of a game? There's really nothing to take away or apply to the overall discusion in such cases.
I agree with you that the people just saying "THIS GAME WILL FAIL!!! OMG OMG!!!" Are utterly unproductive and pointless. These guys are the real haters.
But at the same time there are plenty of people that like certain things about the game, and dislike others. That's where I am, and I think that's where a lot of people that get labeled as "haters" are. For example, I don't like the space combat, but I do like a lot of the RPG features. I think I'll have a lot of fun with this game, but there are parts of it that I'm not happy about.
Going back to the analogy, it would be like if the chef was making ham, potatoes, green beans, rice, etc. You may hate the ham, and you may complain that you can't eat the main course, but you'll still come for everything that you like.
Of course, I have no problem with disliking the game or aspects of it, there's plenty I've found I dislike thus far as well, I just question it and move on. On the other side of the coin there are people who take criticism to heart, and get angry over reading it, you see that here and on other sections, I guess here it's a little more frequent considering dislikes come at a higher rate. I don't see the point in those types posting either, they might as well just do themselves a favor and stop visiting altogether, as the closer to release we get, the worse it's going to get.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
People dont want to admit the game they have put so much time into is out dated so they try and knock the new kid on the block
Or maybe, just maybe, there are legitimate reasons to be both excited and disappointed about this game based on the info we have now.
This is how I feel. Certain features of the game look really cool to me, for example: The cinematics, the different classes, the "bioware-rpg feel," etc.
But then I find certain features of the game disappointing, for example: Space combat on rails, advancement system is still essentially quest based, etc.
The reason that I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the game is because I care about it overall. I want it to be a fun game, and yes, the fact that the space aspect of Star Wars has been reduced to a minigame is a little annoying.
"based on the info" unless you have done beta, it is really hard to knock this game especially with the track record that bio ware has, I will trust in them and take it from there
I keep hearing the argument that a lot of the criticism that comes up about this game is nonsense because we don't have all the facts out yet, so we're just hating on the game.
Well what about all of the optimism around the game?
You're perfectly right, we don't have all the facts. Yet why then is it perfectly acceptable for some posters to fawn over the game and herald is as the best MMO to date... yet any criticism is treated like it's trolling. Both sides have the same limited facts, and if one side doesn't have enough 'facts' to go by to make a call on the game's quality, then neither does the other.
As per Bioware's trackrecord, it's very subjective depending on who you talk to. Also their track record is with single player RPGs, not MMORPGs, apples to oranges.
Everyone is free to have their own critcisms or praises of the upcoming game. In the end though, ALL such views are subject to the fact that the game hasn't even released yet, and neither criticisms or praises have anymore legitimacy than the other at this point in time.
Oh sure I agree completely with your sentiment on overblown optimism, too. I just wonder why more people don't seem to be even handed though. SWTOR and Rift have/had more than their share of haters but look at the GW2 forums .. its chock full of boundless optimism and very little skepticism. "There's no trinity lolzorz!!" Although if you read the info and watch the gameplay it just means that there's still basically a holy duo plus many healers. So its basically the same mechanics just that they've expanded the classes that can do it. Otherwise combat would just be a complete cluster. I dunno, it just makes me scratch my head.
Imagine that you hate ham. You despise it. Every time you have ever eaten ham, it has caused you to vomit in disgust. Just the thought of ham makes you nauseous.
Now imagine that, much to your delight, you have been invited to a dinner cooked by a world reknown chef. But then you find out that the dish is going to be ham. Clearly, you would be disappointed and upset.
Yes, it's true, maybe you'll try the chef's ham and he will completely change your mind and turn you into a ham lover. But let's be honest, you've tried ham multiple times before and every time it made you vomit. It's unlikely that you're going to mysteriously fall in love with it this time.
Moral of the story is that people can get a good idea of what they like/dislike from past experiences and make inferences about how they will like things they haven't experienced yet by examining the information about it.
Here's the thing though, If you don't like ham, are you going to visit the ham section of a food forum?
That's what i see a bunch of in the TOR section. Sure we're all entitled to state our opinions, but what's the point in reading someones opinion if they dislike the core of a game? There's really nothing to take away or apply to the overall discusion in such cases.
I don't understand why people think that since they don't like ham it must be cooked badly. If people are excited to try the ham and are excited about the ingrediants why is that a bad thing. It isn't like they are telling the ham haters that they have horrible taste just that it is differant. But alot of the ham haters are trying to say that because they don't like ham it will be horribly cooked and anyone who eats it will get food poisoning. This is what frustrates alot of people who just want to see what the game will be like.
Comments
I can understand your frustration with the fact that several people are basing concerns based on speculation on what are limited facts. But I have to pose again, how is this any worse than the people who are doing the same, except spinning positive speculation based on the very same limited facts?
If you're going to criticize those who have hesitant or pessimistic view due to lack of 'proof', then you should also criticize those who have an optimistic view and think the game is going to be amazing.
It's a two way street when it comes to speculation.
i forgot lol i should of thought of that. u have a very good point. here is another statement that applies to every one here passion rules reason this just happened to me. because i am excited for the game i did not think to be opne minded enough to possitive comments as well
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Probally because Sw: ToR is just another in a long line of world of warcraft clones, the people who aren't blind see all the signs, while the rest either don't see them or deny it. It has all the makings of a wow clone, boring generic mmorpg combat, linear quest grind, most likely will have meaningless worthless endgame like wow. DaoC's endgame was awesome u raid then go pvp in frontier for control of keeps and stuff that gave your entire faction bonuses. It had a use for the raid gear, unlike wow, rift and most other wow clones, where you raid then you have no use for the gear anymore. I wouldn't call stuff like that endgame.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Rail shooter. More than enough reason there.
Its probably already been stated, but in answer to the op .. its the mmorpg.com forums. That's just what happens here. I like to try just about every mmo released but some folk only want to eat chicken fingers and fish sticks even when you take them out to an expensive steak house, know what I mean?
People dont want to admit the game they have put so much time into is out dated so they try and knock the new kid on the block
I don't hate the game... but the game isn't exactly something I'm dying to play.
If I were to guess as to what most of the hate is about it's the fact the game is nothing new. A re-skinned WoW in Star Wars fashions. People are getting tired of tab-target theme-park MMOs.
Full Sail University - Game Design
Or maybe, just maybe, there are legitimate reasons to be both excited and disappointed about this game based on the info we have now.
This is how I feel. Certain features of the game look really cool to me, for example: The cinematics, the different classes, the "bioware-rpg feel," etc.
But then I find certain features of the game disappointing, for example: Space combat on rails, advancement system is still essentially quest based, etc.
The reason that I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the game is because I care about it overall. I want it to be a fun game, and yes, the fact that the space aspect of Star Wars has been reduced to a minigame is a little annoying.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It is okay to have opinions regarding a game, but until you've actually played it: That opinion is based on nothing.
No, it's based on what information we have before the release. Yes, people's interpretations of said information may prove innaccurate, but there are definitely things that are not likely to change.
For example:
1. Traditional MMORPG quests will have the added bioware touch by having things like dialog and fully voice acted story sequences.
2. Space combat will be a tunnel shooter.
3. There will be companion characters.
I think those are all pretty much solid "facts" at this point. It is perfectly valid to have a positive or negative opinion based on them.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
i agree, things that you've seen like those you stated are in.
I'd wait on the end-game though and pvp, some of them haven't been fully released yet. We have 1 out of 2 maybe 3 warzones. the rest of the open world pvp to explain, we have 1 raid with unknown mechanics in them. Most of the end-game stuff hasn't been explained enough to know for certain what it will entail, Just to say we have raids doesn't In my opinion tell enough. These raids could have multiple parties trying to complete one task. One group going to the control room, another to engineering while the third is trying to hold off reinforcements.
If it turns out end-game is simply what you do in WoW then yeah i can see people having problems. But i think for end-game it's a bit soon.
But if you have a problem with the combat as it stands now, then i can understand. Things like tab targeting using skills cool downs. These are not going to change. They are core aspects of the game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The way I see it is hate comes mainly from those who hunger to see an mmo that breaks the mold completely and innovates across all/most aspects of the features found in any typical mmo game.
Despite the hours and hours of voices and hours of hours of storyline, we still have point and click combat and it appears to me (i might be wrong here) that the decisions we make, only impacts ours storyline but not in the open world.
With GW2 also on the horizon which is bringing innovation in pretty much all areas while at the same time having no monthly fees, these same people start making comparisons between what GW2 will have to offer and SW:TOR. Again, this leads to more hate for SW:TOR.
And ofc there are those who simply aren't into Star Wars.
We can say the opposite for those that are highly anticipating for this game to come out and who really do not mind lack of innovation. After all, a good storyline, cinematic experience and excellent voices can easily immerse you into the game world and compensate for the lack of innovation to be had with this game.
Personally, SW:TOR isn't my thing. First, because it is set in Star Wars universe which I am definately not a fan of. Second, it doesn't seem to do anything too innovative besides adding in tons of voiceovers and story. Lastly, because it will have monthly fee attached.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
"based on the info" unless you have done beta, it is really hard to knock this game especially with the track record that bio ware has, I will trust in them and take it from there
Bioware has a track-record of story-rich single-player rpg's.
With that out of the way, I caution myself to never act in a manner of a bullying basher about a game that I haven't played, nor act in a manner of an elementary giddy school-girl about a game that I haven't played.
I find that, when it comes to mmorpg's, a healthy sense of very cautious optimism with a mix of concern and optimistic anticipation works for me.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I couldn't disagree with this statement more.
If this where in fact the case then games like Vandictus would be successful and since they aren't you simple can't say that.
Also if this where the case then people would be bored with games like the Halo, God of War, CoD, and every single sports game by EA, and since they aren't this statement is false.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Imagine that you hate ham. You despise it. Every time you have ever eaten ham, it has caused you to vomit in disgust. Just the thought of ham makes you nauseous.
Now imagine that, much to your delight, you have been invited to a dinner cooked by a world reknown chef. But then you find out that the dish is going to be ham. Clearly, you would be disappointed and upset.
Yes, it's true, maybe you'll try the chef's ham and he will completely change your mind and turn you into a ham lover. But let's be honest, you've tried ham multiple times before and every time it made you vomit. It's unlikely that you're going to mysteriously fall in love with it this time.
Moral of the story is that people can get a good idea of what they like/dislike from past experiences and make inferences about how they will like things they haven't experienced yet by examining the information about it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Here's the thing though, If you don't like ham, are you going to visit the ham section of a food forum?
That's what i see a bunch of in the TOR section. Sure we're all entitled to state our opinions, but what's the point in reading someones opinion if they dislike the core of a game? There's really nothing to take away or apply to the overall discusion in such cases.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree with you that the people just saying "THIS GAME WILL FAIL!!! OMG OMG!!!" Are utterly unproductive and pointless. These guys are the real haters.
But at the same time there are plenty of people that like certain things about the game, and dislike others. That's where I am, and I think that's where a lot of people that get labeled as "haters" are. For example, I don't like the space combat, but I do like a lot of the RPG features. I think I'll have a lot of fun with this game, but there are parts of it that I'm not happy about.
Going back to the analogy, it would be like if the chef was making ham, potatoes, green beans, rice, etc. You may hate the ham, and you may complain that you can't eat the main course, but you'll still come for everything that you like.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Yeah I hear what you're saying and agree. I wish some large dev companies would actually spend money on a sandbox mmo, too. However I also enjoy most of the themepark offerings that have come out.
Your analogy is reasonable except that it leaves out the extreme ham-ophiles. We'll call them Angry Ham Hating Loud Spitters or AHHLS for short hand. The AHHLS aren't content with just not wanting to eat a nice ham dinner. Oh no, if the AHHLS are at a restaurant and see someone enjoying a ham dinner they'll rush over and spit on the ham while loudly proclaiming their dislike for ham and those who eat it. When the ham eater protests that they weren't bothering anyone and just wanted to enjoy their ham in peace, the AHHLS will just scream louder and spit more on the ham.
See that's what people dislike on forums such as this, its not enough for some people to just not like a game they have to hate it and any who like it. Just like the AHHLS in my above analogy.
Oh yeah I totally agree, those people aren't contributing anything and are just trying to troll basically.
I'm basically only arguing against people who say that you can't ever have a logical negative opinion of a game that is unreleased. And if you do, then your negative opinion is really just some kind of crazy psychological defense mechanism. I.e. "You're just trying to tear down this game because you're jelous or your own game sucks!"
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I keep hearing the argument that a lot of the criticism that comes up about this game is nonsense because we don't have all the facts out yet, so we're just hating on the game.
Well what about all of the optimism around the game?
You're perfectly right, we don't have all the facts. Yet why then is it perfectly acceptable for some posters to fawn over the game and herald is as the best MMO to date... yet any criticism is treated like it's trolling. Both sides have the same limited facts, and if one side doesn't have enough 'facts' to go by to make a call on the game's quality, then neither does the other.
As per Bioware's trackrecord, it's very subjective depending on who you talk to. Also their track record is with single player RPGs, not MMORPGs, apples to oranges.
Everyone is free to have their own critcisms or praises of the upcoming game. In the end though, ALL such views are subject to the fact that the game hasn't even released yet, and neither criticisms or praises have anymore legitimacy than the other at this point in time.
Of course, I have no problem with disliking the game or aspects of it, there's plenty I've found I dislike thus far as well, I just question it and move on. On the other side of the coin there are people who take criticism to heart, and get angry over reading it, you see that here and on other sections, I guess here it's a little more frequent considering dislikes come at a higher rate. I don't see the point in those types posting either, they might as well just do themselves a favor and stop visiting altogether, as the closer to release we get, the worse it's going to get.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh sure I agree completely with your sentiment on overblown optimism, too. I just wonder why more people don't seem to be even handed though. SWTOR and Rift have/had more than their share of haters but look at the GW2 forums .. its chock full of boundless optimism and very little skepticism. "There's no trinity lolzorz!!" Although if you read the info and watch the gameplay it just means that there's still basically a holy duo plus many healers. So its basically the same mechanics just that they've expanded the classes that can do it. Otherwise combat would just be a complete cluster. I dunno, it just makes me scratch my head.
I don't understand why people think that since they don't like ham it must be cooked badly. If people are excited to try the ham and are excited about the ingrediants why is that a bad thing. It isn't like they are telling the ham haters that they have horrible taste just that it is differant. But alot of the ham haters are trying to say that because they don't like ham it will be horribly cooked and anyone who eats it will get food poisoning. This is what frustrates alot of people who just want to see what the game will be like.