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To all skeptics of movement speed underwater in GW2
xKingdomx
Member UncommonPosts: 1,541
in Guild Wars 2
http://www.incgamers.com/Previews/308/guild-wars-2-hands-on
"What is different is that your movement speed is affected, the enemies are different, weapon aesthetics change (i.e. a sword becomes a spear) and fire balls don’t work. Despite my limited exposure to MMOs, I’ve played enough to know it was horrible in WoW and that it’s not so here. "
There you go, movement speed is affect too.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Comments
The devs have said movement speed ISN'T affected and that has been confirmed by several people as well. I personally don't trust that guy's words on the subject.
This is not a game.
I remember a day and age in Everquest 1 when you had to ask folks how to do things and where things were (I also remmeber book and record stores and going through piles of aforementioned good hoping to find that rare gem).. Now we live in an age of instant information and walk-through guides... And in this day and age there are really people up in arms about underwater movement physics in an MMO... This has to be one of the signs the world is ending. Is Bergmann directing this slow game of chess with death or is it simply chess 2.0 ala 3-d chess via Star Trek... And the males playing femals avatars sing .. do doo doo doo doo do doo doo doo do doo... Hey gamer .. take a walk on the Intellevision Boxing side.
"I also didn’t love it but, I did enjoy it a lot."
Is that just WRONG or what?
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Since playing the water level in the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on NES I have hated water levels with a passion and I don't intend to stop now.
But we shall see...
It was the flooded underwater level on sonic that scared me... the sound as you were about to drown gave me nightmares!
@OP - For one this is not the official site, and having many other resources, including the devs, say that underwater speed is not affected, I take this thread as a sign of ignorance on your part.
Put through the personal paces of my crippled fingers.
It's starting to happen...
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
"Love" is different from "enjoyed it a lot" I think. Didn't love it enough to say its the best thing in the world but enjoyed it enough to want to play it some more.
This is not a game.
I post my source, can you post yours
Maybe the guy in the review meant that he is typically slower than water creatures, so you are slower?
I mean I don't actually care how fast I move in water, but it would be nice to be Michael Phelps in GW2 :P
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
God I hate sandwiches......I always wish they were better :P
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Hmm, I'm sure that I read somewhere that was said that the swimming speed was the same as the run speed. I recall it because I assumed that swimming would be slower and being surprised reading it was the same speed as on land run speed.
Personally I prefer it when it's somewhat slower than run speed and not the same, however, if it's the same speed then, well, it is as it is.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Speak for yourself!
Maybe no movement speed debuff seems normal or good to a lot of people but to me it seems odd so i hope this guy is right, maybe i'm just trying to insert my knowledge of RL and all previous MMOs that people don't move as fast in water as they do on land. Considering some of these people are in suits of armor or robes. Ever tried to move around in one of them suits of armor? Pretty hard, then try and do that in water, chances are you'll sink like a rock, this includes robes btw. I can by pass the no sinking but it seems like you should at least move slower, so again i hope this guy is right but i've heard differently from other sources.
This is kinda right up there with the no breath timer for me (at least they have the scuba like gear so it's explained). I actually like a relience on other players to survive in certain areas, oh well.
But this is about movement speed so i'll try to stick to that.
My biggest issue with this is water will (with no movement speed as thats what i heard from people posting comments and this is the first i've heard of a speed effect) be used to get away from a mob or take shortcuts rather then it's intended purpose. Players will do weird things to avoid dying in games. Like using water to lose aggro. Course with this game having a almost non exist death penalty that isn't much of an issue either.
At the end i hope this guy is right but the way people are reacting it seems hes mistaken.
As for the OP i'm not sure this will remove skeptics if a dev post can counter it. Bloggers/previews tend to get shot down by dev posts as devs tend to be taken over previewers.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
"Most importantly, I didn’t notice any loss in movement speed while underwater, and I was able to breathe. That should take a lot of the headache out of underwater combat, and the diverse set of underwater skills will keep things interesting when players venture off shore."
Source: http://www.massiveonlinegamer.com/previews/1266-guild-wars-2-media-day-wrap-up-part-2
@whilan
I assume you did not watch the underwater combat videos? If you did you would not have to see underwater combat as a gimmicky mechanic to avoid dying...
Can't find any Dev source but someone has posted a conflicting review on the subject so that proves my point as well.
This is not a game.
Firstly, when has going full reality in games ever been fun?
Secondly, why is it bad to use retreat tactics to get away from a mob?
Thirdly, if you've watched the underwater videos you'd notice that some mobs can actually follow you into water, so you can't always escape from all mobs by going underwater.
This is not a game.
I think you might have missed the point where this is my personal prefence and problems with the game. I can easily by pass the no sinking thing because rarely do games ever do that and sinking all the time would be annoying as you would have to keep self correcting. Still i think you should move slower in water as in most games so it just "feels" weird to me that you move at exactly the same speed, granted it is a fantasy game but it still abides by gravity, plants grow, you need a scuba gear to survive underwater. Just seems odd to me. I think why it feels weird to me is they went through all the trouble to have mobs and PC change attacks underwater to make sense, add the scuba gear so you can breathe underwater, have you use different weapons underwater so it all makes sense but then they stop short of it by saying, everyone can swim the same speed as they do walking on land. It just makes me go huh? why did you do so much to make it believable then just stop at the movement speed?
secondly to me using a game mechanic even a little bit to basically cheat the system as the mob can't path to you in water, seems well...like cheating to me. it's good that some mobs can go into water but i can see it being used if you get into trouble with 5 centaurs to jump in water to lose aggro. I don't personally care for this tatic as it again seems like cheating to me, maybe the mobs can shoot arrows or something at you in water?
The personal reliance on others is simply down to the fact that i think you should need to interact with the community and needing other people to cast spells on you to go underwater seems like a great oppertunity that is missed here.
again though remember these are my personal prefernces for water and not indictive if this is a good or bad thing game wise, it's just not something i care for.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
On topic of sinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh5xu35bAxA
The first question is really easy to answer. Mobs and PCs changing attacks underwater = adding gameplay, catering to realism, does not affect fun in a negative fashion.
Having gravity, plants growing, scuba gear... all catering to realism, does not affect fun.
Swimming slower = Catering to realism, many people find it annoying and unfun.
Just like letting people in plate mail swim along with the people in normal clothes, this is done for the sake of the game, sacrificing realism on the altar of gameplay. You may notice that almost ALL games do this to an extent. I have only played one game where fighting a bear was mostly realistic, and basically it went like 'If the bear hits you, you die. Good luck. By the way, you are not going to take it down easily.' Everything in video games is all weirded up for the purpose of gameplay. You should be thoroughly familiar with this, having to argue with people who think lightsabers should single shot everybody.
Basically this was a gameplay design decision they made to cater to people like me, rather than people like you. So why did they do it? Because they were catering to people like me who find the slow underwater movement speeds to become increasingly annoying the longer you do it. (... and with apparently more underwater content than any other MMORPG's vanilla edition, that would become a LOT of annoyance). You can disagree with the decision, but I'm confused by the part where you can't see why they're doing it.
Also, I'm confused by the part where you want the realism of slower swimming, but you're annoyed by the realism of using water to escape from certain foes.
Oh well, it's your own taste. Personally, I prefer the way GW2 is doing underwater content, but you don't have to. There's plenty of MMOs that do underwater content the exact way you described (WoW), or you could play an MMO with no underwater content at all.
(edit: If it makes you feel better, every hero in the GW2 universe has had a magic spell cast on them that allows them to move more quickly underwater, and ignore the normal restrictions you would expect from armor. I have no evidence for this, but hey! Just pretend it's true. Now moving faster in water is ADDING to the immersion!.
)
To me, they're sacrificing immersion on the alter of convenience. It may not mean a lot to you, but it sure means a lot to me. I can almost guarantee I won't enjoy the underwater content because of these immersion breaking inconsistensies (swim speed, wearing heavy armor underwater and the breathing apparatus, which in my opinion is a lame excuse for endless breath) but obviously that won't stop me from playing the game. It still looks good.
My opinion of course.
Like I said, it's a design decision, made to cater to certain people. Obviously meant to cater to me, rather than to you.
... and doesn't pretty much EVERY MMO (Except the ones with no underwater content at all, of course) allow heavy armor underwater? I mean, some might not, but I haven't played them. Which ones would those be? I'm actually curious which game has bothered to pay that much attention to realism underwater.
... and the breathing apparatus seems like a good idea to me, if they are capable of making it within the boundaries of lore, then why would it be immersion breaking?
An underwater breathing apparatus is a pretty advanced piece of technology. According to Wikipedia, the first free-swimming air scuba set was invented in 1925. In comparison, the first motorcycle was invented in 1885 and the first controlled flight took place in 1903. Guns, grenades and flamethrowers are, of course, much older inventions.
Hopefully, ArenaNet won't fit helicopters and computers within the boundaries of lore too.
But this is as far as I know the first step in the right decision in a MMO.
Most allow you to use your skills as usual, smae pets and only difference is that you drown if you stay too long without a spell, and that you move slighter slower and can go up and down.
Please inform us which MMO that does underwater combat better or as good. Heck, many newer MMOs don't even have mobs underwater, like AoC and RoM, it is all empty in the water in those games.
GW2s underwater combat is far from realistic but it is a step in the right direction for MMOs. Besides are there other things that need realism more in MMOs, like combat systems and how the games handle damages (hitpoints is sooo D&D 1 edition).
Well, underwater suits are pretty old,
This scuba gear is a copy made from Hans Tallhoffers drawing in 1459, and old Hans was not like DaVinci, his stuff worked and were actually used.
Of course you pump air here, but I can promise you that if some kind of magic really would have existed they would have made a breathing apparatus as well.
Hans also talks about using a pigs bladder full of air to breathe.
If you want to dizz something for really being off, then let's talk about the sentry guns, those appeared in the 60s.
"underwater combat" should never be in a game where you play a human (or a race of the same stature.) unless your going to give everyone flippers and a harpoon gun there is no possible way one could fight another underwater swinging a sword wildly. Straight up stupid and unoriginal, will be just as lame as wows underwater combat
C
A harpoon gun you say? Like these that are in the game?
No flippers though, but you really don't must have them even if they improve your movement a bit.