How this discussion ended up being more than 3 pages long is beyond me. And can someone please point me in the direction of the latest "watching paint dry" discussion?
Realism has no place though in a reality which is not real, a fabricated reality can obey any physical laws it desires, so even citing realism is utterly preposterous. We all realise this on some intellectual level, yes? So any citations of realism are just posturing.
I'm sure we all realize on some intellectual level that nuclear weapons and lollipop trees are inherently bad for the game. But how come? The answer is not realism or the lack of it. It's immersion.
The reason I listed real world inventions and compared them to the things we see in the podcasts is to explain why it's breaking my immersion. Clockpunk is loosly based on the Renaissance. Loke666 posted a picture of a breathing apparatus from that era. You'll notice that it in no way, form or shape looks like the breathing apparatus in Guild Wars 2. However, I could post pictures of the weapons used back in the Renaissance and you'd probably say: "Hey! We have those weapons in Guild Wars 2."
I could also post a picture of a modern free-swimming air scuba set and again you'd say: "Hey! We have those in Guild Wars 2." But if I posted pictures of contemporary weapons you probably wouldn't recognize them from Guild Wars 2 at all. The sentry gun may be the exception.
That is what breaks the immersion for me. I can't make it work in my head. It's like a roman legionnaire with a carbine rifle. Thankfully, it's not a gamebreaking detail in itself and I'm still eager to play the game.
Realism has no place though in a reality which is not real, a fabricated reality can obey any physical laws it desires, so even citing realism is utterly preposterous. We all realise this on some intellectual level, yes? So any citations of realism are just posturing.
I'm sure we all realize on some intellectual level that nuclear weapons and lollipop trees are inherently bad for the game. But how come? The answer is not realism or the lack of it. It's immersion.
The reason I listed real world inventions and compared them to the things we see in the podcasts is to explain why it's breaking my immersion. Clockpunk is loosly based on the Renaissance. Loke666 posted a picture of a breathing apparatus from that era. You'll notice that it in no way, form or shape looks like the breathing apparatus in Guild Wars 2. However, I could post pictures of the weapons used back in the Renaissance and you'd probably say: "Hey! We have those weapons in Guild Wars 2."
I could also post a picture of a modern free-swimming air scuba set and again you'd say: "Hey! We have those in Guild Wars 2." But if I posted pictures of contemporary weapons you probably wouldn't recognize them from Guild Wars 2 at all. The sentry gun may be the exception.
That is what breaks the immersion for me. I can't make it work in my head. It's like a roman legionnaire with a carbine rifle. Thankfully, it's not a gamebreaking detail in itself and I'm still eager to play the game.
Last time I checked, they didn't have giant robots in the renaissance either
Some of you like to defend yourself now by saying immersion is different from realism. Ok.
Then i'll put it like that: Slower movement and breathing problems underwater break my immersion. Why? Because instead of immersing myself into the game and job at hand i have to get annoyed by slow movement which does nothing but piss me off while constantly looking if i am not drowning underwater.
This definitly breaks my immersion. I cannot lose myself in game and what im doing there because i constantly have to watch for breath and am constantly reminded about it being a game by stupid-ass slow movement underwater.
Like you see opinions varies. You will either like the game they make or not. Don't expect ANet to change crap so it'll suit your needs because then they will screw it for other people.
Realism has no place though in a reality which is not real, a fabricated reality can obey any physical laws it desires, so even citing realism is utterly preposterous. We all realise this on some intellectual level, yes? So any citations of realism are just posturing.
I'm sure we all realize on some intellectual level that nuclear weapons and lollipop trees are inherently bad for the game. But how come? The answer is not realism or the lack of it. It's immersion.
The reason I listed real world inventions and compared them to the things we see in the podcasts is to explain why it's breaking my immersion. Clockpunk is loosly based on the Renaissance. Loke666 posted a picture of a breathing apparatus from that era. You'll notice that it in no way, form or shape looks like the breathing apparatus in Guild Wars 2. However, I could post pictures of the weapons used back in the Renaissance and you'd probably say: "Hey! We have those weapons in Guild Wars 2."
I could also post a picture of a modern free-swimming air scuba set and again you'd say: "Hey! We have those in Guild Wars 2." But if I posted pictures of contemporary weapons you probably wouldn't recognize them from Guild Wars 2 at all. The sentry gun may be the exception.
That is what breaks the immersion for me. I can't make it work in my head. It's like a roman legionnaire with a carbine rifle. Thankfully, it's not a gamebreaking detail in itself and I'm still eager to play the game.
Last time I checked, they didn't have giant robots in the renaissance either
....Its not just that the mask is 1) Noninvasive or 2) Able to allow you to breathe forever underwater but theres also 3) Everyone and their grandma has one.
Okay, I do have a wetsuit and scuba gear at home, but I definitely don't carry it around with me. How often do you think a warrior brought a snorkel around with him "just in case"?
"Gah, dropped my sword in that lake again, don't worry guys, I'll find it!"
Its a big change from GW1 where water couldnt' even be traversed much less something you could immerse yourself in. A side question, do you think they finally learned to jump using a "jumping apparatus" ?
While my opinion differs from Kharnaths slightly, I just find it very strange that some things, like breathing apparatuses are SO common place here, yet something like mounts are completely left out. YES I know "but you don't need mounts, teleporter mumbo-jumbo, game-decision, all-that-jazz" I get it,
I just find it funny how complacent people are with something like underwater combat utilizing things that weren't even in the scope of the initial title that is now forcefully common place whilst something that is most often common place could just as easily get forgotten, and everyone now thinks its the best thing in the world.
Realism has no place though in a reality which is not real, a fabricated reality can obey any physical laws it desires, so even citing realism is utterly preposterous. We all realise this on some intellectual level, yes? So any citations of realism are just posturing.
I'm sure we all realize on some intellectual level that nuclear weapons and lollipop trees are inherently bad for the game. But how come? The answer is not realism or the lack of it. It's immersion.
The reason I listed real world inventions and compared them to the things we see in the podcasts is to explain why it's breaking my immersion. Clockpunk is loosly based on the Renaissance. Loke666 posted a picture of a breathing apparatus from that era. You'll notice that it in no way, form or shape looks like the breathing apparatus in Guild Wars 2. However, I could post pictures of the weapons used back in the Renaissance and you'd probably say: "Hey! We have those weapons in Guild Wars 2."
I could also post a picture of a modern free-swimming air scuba set and again you'd say: "Hey! We have those in Guild Wars 2." But if I posted pictures of contemporary weapons you probably wouldn't recognize them from Guild Wars 2 at all. The sentry gun may be the exception.
That is what breaks the immersion for me. I can't make it work in my head. It's like a roman legionnaire with a carbine rifle. Thankfully, it's not a gamebreaking detail in itself and I'm still eager to play the game.
Last time I checked, they didn't have giant robots in the renaissance either
....Its not just that the mask is 1) Noninvasive or 2) Able to allow you to breathe forever underwater but theres also 3) Everyone and their grandma has one.
Okay, I do have a wetsuit and scuba gear at home, but I definitely don't carry it around with me. How often do you think a warrior brought a snorkel around with him "just in case"?
"Gah, dropped my sword in that lake again, don't worry guys, I'll find it!"
Its a big change from GW1 where water couldnt' even be traversed much less something you could immerse yourself in. A side question, do you think they finally learned to jump using a "jumping apparatus" ?
While my opinion differs from Kharnaths slightly, I just find it very strange that some things, like breathing apparatuses are SO common place here, yet something like mounts are completely left out. YES I know "but you don't need mounts, teleporter mumbo-jumbo, game-decision, all-that-jazz" I get it,
I just find it funny how complacent people are with something like underwater combat utilizing things that weren't even in the scope of the initial title that is now forcefully common place whilst something that is most often common place could just as easily get forgotten, and everyone now thinks its the best thing in the world.
"I'm just going out adventuring Ma."
"Ok dear take your umberella in case it rains."
"Ok Ma."
"And your wellies in case its muddy"
"Ok Ma."
"And your breathing mask in case you want to explore an underwater monster lair."
"Ok Ma."
"And remember to take your communicator so if you need to travel to somewhere far away you can call Scotty to beam you there."
"Sod off Ma."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Realism has no place though in a reality which is not real, a fabricated reality can obey any physical laws it desires, so even citing realism is utterly preposterous. We all realise this on some intellectual level, yes? So any citations of realism are just posturing.
I'm sure we all realize on some intellectual level that nuclear weapons and lollipop trees are inherently bad for the game. But how come? The answer is not realism or the lack of it. It's immersion.
The reason I listed real world inventions and compared them to the things we see in the podcasts is to explain why it's breaking my immersion. Clockpunk is loosly based on the Renaissance. Loke666 posted a picture of a breathing apparatus from that era. You'll notice that it in no way, form or shape looks like the breathing apparatus in Guild Wars 2. However, I could post pictures of the weapons used back in the Renaissance and you'd probably say: "Hey! We have those weapons in Guild Wars 2."
I could also post a picture of a modern free-swimming air scuba set and again you'd say: "Hey! We have those in Guild Wars 2." But if I posted pictures of contemporary weapons you probably wouldn't recognize them from Guild Wars 2 at all. The sentry gun may be the exception.
That is what breaks the immersion for me. I can't make it work in my head. It's like a roman legionnaire with a carbine rifle. Thankfully, it's not a gamebreaking detail in itself and I'm still eager to play the game.
Last time I checked, they didn't have giant robots in the renaissance either
....Its not just that the mask is 1) Noninvasive or 2) Able to allow you to breathe forever underwater but theres also 3) Everyone and their grandma has one.
Okay, I do have a wetsuit and scuba gear at home, but I definitely don't carry it around with me. How often do you think a warrior brought a snorkel around with him "just in case"?
"Gah, dropped my sword in that lake again, don't worry guys, I'll find it!"
Its a big change from GW1 where water couldnt' even be traversed much less something you could immerse yourself in. A side question, do you think they finally learned to jump using a "jumping apparatus" ?
While my opinion differs from Kharnaths slightly, I just find it very strange that some things, like breathing apparatuses are SO common place here, yet something like mounts are completely left out. YES I know "but you don't need mounts, teleporter mumbo-jumbo, game-decision, all-that-jazz" I get it,
I just find it funny how complacent people are with something like underwater combat utilizing things that weren't even in the scope of the initial title that is now forcefully common place whilst something that is most often common place could just as easily get forgotten, and everyone now thinks its the best thing in the world.
"I'm just going out adventuring Ma."
"Ok dear take your umbrleela in case it rains."
"Ok Ma."
"And your wellies in case its muddy"
"Ok Ma."
"And your breathing mask in case you want to explore an underwater monster lair."
"Ok Ma."
"And remember to take your communicator so if you need to travel to somewhere far away you can call Scotty to beam you there."
Yes, that robot is definitely breaking my immersion too. The developers could have easily designed a mechanical robot with gears and springs which would fit very well into the theme. Instead they opted for an advanced Skynet robot. But I'm curious. Do you think the robot fits the clockpunk theme well? And if yes, why does a tank or a stealth bomber absolutely *not* fit the clockpunk theme?
Yes, that robot is definitely breaking my immersion too. The developers could have easily designed a mechanical robot with gears and springs which would fit very well into the theme. Instead they opted for an advanced Skynet robot. But I'm curious. Do you think the robot fits the clockpunk theme well? And if yes, why does a tank or a stealth bomber absolutely *not* fit the clockpunk theme?
It doesn't bother me, the Asura kind of remind of the the Magitek stuff from FInal Fantasy VI. Where they use their skill with both magic and technology to create wonders.
If you don't like Magitek stuff in general, then I think that's a valid opinion. But it's just a matter of taste at that point. I wouldn't say it's that the breathing mask or whatever breaks your immersion in the world, but that you just don't like large aspects of the world in general (magitek stuff).
Yes, that robot is definitely breaking my immersion too. The developers could have easily designed a mechanical robot with gears and springs which would fit very well into the theme. Instead they opted for an advanced Skynet robot. But I'm curious. Do you think the robot fits the clockpunk theme well? And if yes, why does a tank or a stealth bomber absolutely *not* fit the clockpunk theme?
"underwater combat" should never be in a game where you play a human (or a race of the same stature.) unless your going to give everyone flippers and a harpoon gun there is no possible way one could fight another underwater swinging a sword wildly. Straight up stupid and unoriginal, will be just as lame as wows underwater combat
Yeah - that would have to be some sort of magical fantasy world.....oh wait
"underwater combat" should never be in a game where you play a human (or a race of the same stature.) unless your going to give everyone flippers and a harpoon gun there is no possible way one could fight another underwater swinging a sword wildly. Straight up stupid and unoriginal, will be just as lame as wows underwater combat
Yeah - that would have to be some sort of magical fantasy world.....oh wait
"underwater combat" should never be in a game where you play a human (or a race of the same stature.) unless your going to give everyone flippers and a harpoon gun there is no possible way one could fight another underwater swinging a sword wildly. Straight up stupid and unoriginal, will be just as lame as wows underwater combat
Yeah - that would have to be some sort of magical fantasy world.....oh wait
Also, GW2 don't allows swords underwater....
Does your sword magically morph into a new weapon, or do you actually have to acquire a weapon to use in water?
It's fun trying to watch people rationalize the irrational. For instance....my flying animation looks stiff which is totally unreal. No...the fact that you can fly like superman is unreal, that you look stiff doing it is an interesting observation, lol.
It's a game, it's make believe. You can swim as slow or as fast as the universe you find yourself in dictates. Don't be so constrained by rules and laws of our universe. Escapism can be a wonderful thing, and GW2 is bringing us a compelling world to explore. How fast you can swim misses the point entirely.
Does your sword magically morph into a new weapon, or do you actually have to acquire a weapon to use in water?
There are special underwater weapons (check back to the picture of teh harpoon guns I posted earlier in the thread). As far as what I know from watching vids you change to your secondary if you have a weapon that don't work underwater.
I am not sure what happens if both are unusable, but I am guessing you have to change manually.
Also why realism should be only about slower movements? Why not also making plate wearers sink and cloth wearers so slow and difficult to move, that would be the worst nightmare to swim with some armor on?
Some ppl talks about realism based from which phisics happens on other MMOs
Also why realism should be only about slower movements? Why not also making plate wearers sink and cloth wearers so slow and difficult to move, that would be the worst nightmare to swim with some armor on?
Some ppl talks about realism based from which phisics happens on other MMOs
Yeah, and letrs add how much stuff players have in their backpack as well.
Let's face it, every adventurer should sink like a stone except the water elementalists (I assume they can handle water).
100% realistic swimming and underwatercombat wouldn't be fun at all in a MMO.
Also why realism should be only about slower movements? Why not also making plate wearers sink and cloth wearers so slow and difficult to move, that would be the worst nightmare to swim with some armor on?
Some ppl talks about realism based from which phisics happens on other MMOs
Yeah, and letrs add how much stuff players have in their backpack as well.
Let's face it, every adventurer should sink like a stone except the water elementalists (I assume they can handle water).
100% realistic swimming and underwatercombat wouldn't be fun at all in a MMO.
Not only that. Characters should also get slower with heavier backpack weight, die or get badly injured from falling from heights bigger then 3x his size, tired after a 2min combat...
I really think games couldnt be fun if they were like that
Not only that. Characters should also get slower with heavier backpack weight, die or get badly injured from falling from heights bigger then 3x his size, tired after a 2min combat...
I really think games couldnt be fun if they were like that
If right done they could be really fun but then the entire game needs to be realistic. Realistic combat, realistic damage (no frigging hitpoints or levels) and so on
Realism doesn't neccesarily mean boring, I can tell you that few things are more fun that to pull on my armor, get a blunt sword and do some ARMA styled fighting.
But whinning on a few unrealistic thing like underwater speed is really pointless and illogical when the rest of the game is unrealstic and made to be that way.
"To me, they're sacrificing immersion on the alter of convenience."
"... and the breathing apparatus, which in my opinion is a lame excuse for endless breath"
"I'd personally expect to see wizardry, gravity, cat-like humanoids and stuff that I associate with Guild Wars 2. On the other hand, I wouldn't expect to see muppets, helicopters, lollipop trees, commandos - or a breathing apparatus."
"My opinion of course."
I think I've made it quite clear so far, that it is all personal opinion.
Right. Which is why we're not using 'immersion'. Like I said. Because your personal subjective version of immersion is something that only you understand, because it's in your head.
You're not basing immersion off of what is possible within the framework of Tyria, you are basing your immersion off of your feelings. (Which, by the way are partially based off of incorrect information in the first place. Tyrian clockpunk is based off of the Renaissance? Somebody should probably tell the Charr they're Doing It Wrong then.)
You are arbitrarily picking some things you dislike, and pointing them out as immersion breaking, but it's about as constructive as pointing to Ents in Lord of the Rings and saying 'The talking trees break my immersion.'.
There's nothing anybody can really do about that, to fix it for you, and it has absolutely 0 to do with the immersion of anybody who disagrees with you, so there's no reason for us to talk about how 'immersive' Ents are, and there's no reason for us (As in, those who disagree with you) to talk about how 'immersive' breathing apparatus is.
I'm not sure why people are comparing Asura creations, such as golems, with technological creations, such as the stuff created by the Charr.
The Asura use magic to create their inventions. All their inventions, such as golems, rely on magic. You are looking at mechanical robots and you are thinking it's this unmagical thing. Play through the EotN story line. The golems have been around since Guild Wars 1. Hell, you get your own golem as a hero in guild wars 1. They use magic. They were created with magic. Everything Asura create involves magic in some way.
In fact, most of the technology within the Guild Wars universe incorporate magic in some way. Though Charr creations rely a little less on magic.
The Engineer is profession that represents the technological advancement of the Guild Wars universe. It's meant to remind the players that this is no longer the Guild Wars 1 world. This is Guild Wars 2, 250 years in the future. Technology now plays more of a role in the lives of everyone, and the Engineer is the representation of that. It's a profession that's heavily reliant on technology.
As for the breathing apparatus being widely available. That's a situation where you just have to make it convenient. It's not like you are instantly handed a breathing apparatus as soon as you enter the game for the first time. You have to get one, but they are easily attainable. When half of the game happens to take place underwater, you have to make it widely available and easily attainable for the average gamer. You can't deny a portion of the population access to half of the game just because they can't get the breathing apparatus.
Right. Which is why we're not using 'immersion'. Like I said. Because your personal subjective version of immersion is something that only you understand, because it's in your head.
You're not basing immersion off of what is possible within the framework of Tyria, you are basing your immersion off of your feelings. (Which, by the way are partially based off of incorrect information in the first place. Tyrian clockpunk is based off of the Renaissance? Somebody should probably tell the Charr they're Doing It Wrong then.)
You are arbitrarily picking some things you dislike, and pointing them out as immersion breaking, but it's about as constructive as pointing to Ents in Lord of the Rings and saying 'The talking trees break my immersion.'.
There's nothing anybody can really do about that, to fix it for you, and it has absolutely 0 to do with the immersion of anybody who disagrees with you, so there's no reason for us to talk about how 'immersive' Ents are, and there's no reason for us (As in, those who disagree with you) to talk about how 'immersive' breathing apparatus is.
When did I ever give you the impression that I was speaking for anyone but myself? Please re-read my initial post in this thread, which coincidentally is a response to something you wrote. Do you see anything but personal opinions in that post? Do I try to pass it off as something "most people" or even "some people" agree with, or do I actually point out that it's my personal opinion?
I never claimed there was support for my point of view regarding game immersion, only that it was - in fact - my point of view. MY point of view. Not yours. Also, it was never your job to sway my opinion of the game features in the first place - leave that to the developers and programmers.
A final note: Clockpunk is one of several subgenres in speculative fiction. The difference between clockpunk and other similar subgenres is, that the technology is based on springs, gears and other clockwork components. The mechanical clock as we know it was first described in 1327 - which means the technology emerged in the early stage of the Renaissance.
Honestly all this immersion talk gets really dumb really fast. Its a game set in a world with its own physics and rules get over it. Want perfect immersion in a world thats fictional but follows all the rules of our univrese? Go read a Sherlock Holmes novel and give mmos rest.
A final note: Clockpunk is one of several subgenres in speculative fiction. The difference between clockpunk and other similar subgenres is, that the technology is based on springs, gears and other clockwork components. The mechanical clock as we know it was first described in 1327 - which means the technology emerged in the early stage of the Renaissance.
... and steampunk is based off of steam. Usage of steam in technology as we know it was first described by the =pre-Roman Greeks=.
.... but nobody ever says Steampunk technology has to cleave to BC level Greek technology, or has their immersion ruined when somebody uses a gun because ancient Greek people didn't. (Well, maybe you do. Heck. I don't know.)
A final note: Clockpunk is one of several subgenres in speculative fiction. The difference between clockpunk and other similar subgenres is, that the technology is based on springs, gears and other clockwork components. The mechanical clock as we know it was first described in 1327 - which means the technology emerged in the early stage of the Renaissance.
... and steampunk is based off of steam. Usage of steam in technology as we know it was first described by the =pre-Roman Greeks=.
.... but nobody ever says Steampunk technology has to cleave to BC level Greek technology, or has their immersion ruined when somebody uses a gun because ancient Greek people didn't. (Well, maybe you do. Heck. I don't know.)
Actually, steampunk relates to the industrial revolution and James Watt's patented steam engine. Steam locomotives, steam boats, steam-powered factories. Those were some of the key inventions of that era. The agrarian society was replaced by the industrial society and industrialization was born in this period.
I would not find it odd at all if someone used a firearm in a steampunk setting.
Comments
How this discussion ended up being more than 3 pages long is beyond me. And can someone please point me in the direction of the latest "watching paint dry" discussion?
I'm sure we all realize on some intellectual level that nuclear weapons and lollipop trees are inherently bad for the game. But how come? The answer is not realism or the lack of it. It's immersion.
The reason I listed real world inventions and compared them to the things we see in the podcasts is to explain why it's breaking my immersion. Clockpunk is loosly based on the Renaissance. Loke666 posted a picture of a breathing apparatus from that era. You'll notice that it in no way, form or shape looks like the breathing apparatus in Guild Wars 2. However, I could post pictures of the weapons used back in the Renaissance and you'd probably say: "Hey! We have those weapons in Guild Wars 2."
I could also post a picture of a modern free-swimming air scuba set and again you'd say: "Hey! We have those in Guild Wars 2." But if I posted pictures of contemporary weapons you probably wouldn't recognize them from Guild Wars 2 at all. The sentry gun may be the exception.
That is what breaks the immersion for me. I can't make it work in my head. It's like a roman legionnaire with a carbine rifle. Thankfully, it's not a gamebreaking detail in itself and I'm still eager to play the game.
Last time I checked, they didn't have giant robots in the renaissance either
http://www.squidoo.com/guild-wars-2-asura?utm_source=google&utm_medium=imgres&utm_campaign=framebuster
Does the giant robot break your immersion? If not, then I'm thinking this breathing mask:
http://www.mmocrunch.com/2011/06/24/swimming-with-guild-wars-2/
Really shouldn't break your immersion either.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Ok.
Some of you like to defend yourself now by saying immersion is different from realism. Ok.
Then i'll put it like that: Slower movement and breathing problems underwater break my immersion. Why? Because instead of immersing myself into the game and job at hand i have to get annoyed by slow movement which does nothing but piss me off while constantly looking if i am not drowning underwater.
This definitly breaks my immersion. I cannot lose myself in game and what im doing there because i constantly have to watch for breath and am constantly reminded about it being a game by stupid-ass slow movement underwater.
Like you see opinions varies. You will either like the game they make or not. Don't expect ANet to change crap so it'll suit your needs because then they will screw it for other people.
....Its not just that the mask is 1) Noninvasive or 2) Able to allow you to breathe forever underwater but theres also 3) Everyone and their grandma has one.
Okay, I do have a wetsuit and scuba gear at home, but I definitely don't carry it around with me. How often do you think a warrior brought a snorkel around with him "just in case"?
"Gah, dropped my sword in that lake again, don't worry guys, I'll find it!"
Its a big change from GW1 where water couldnt' even be traversed much less something you could immerse yourself in. A side question, do you think they finally learned to jump using a "jumping apparatus" ?
While my opinion differs from Kharnaths slightly, I just find it very strange that some things, like breathing apparatuses are SO common place here, yet something like mounts are completely left out. YES I know "but you don't need mounts, teleporter mumbo-jumbo, game-decision, all-that-jazz" I get it,
I just find it funny how complacent people are with something like underwater combat utilizing things that weren't even in the scope of the initial title that is now forcefully common place whilst something that is most often common place could just as easily get forgotten, and everyone now thinks its the best thing in the world.
"I'm just going out adventuring Ma."
"Ok dear take your umberella in case it rains."
"Ok Ma."
"And your wellies in case its muddy"
"Ok Ma."
"And your breathing mask in case you want to explore an underwater monster lair."
"Ok Ma."
"And remember to take your communicator so if you need to travel to somewhere far away you can call Scotty to beam you there."
"Sod off Ma."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
LOL
Yes, that robot is definitely breaking my immersion too. The developers could have easily designed a mechanical robot with gears and springs which would fit very well into the theme. Instead they opted for an advanced Skynet robot. But I'm curious. Do you think the robot fits the clockpunk theme well? And if yes, why does a tank or a stealth bomber absolutely *not* fit the clockpunk theme?
It doesn't bother me, the Asura kind of remind of the the Magitek stuff from FInal Fantasy VI. Where they use their skill with both magic and technology to create wonders.
If you don't like Magitek stuff in general, then I think that's a valid opinion. But it's just a matter of taste at that point. I wouldn't say it's that the breathing mask or whatever breaks your immersion in the world, but that you just don't like large aspects of the world in general (magitek stuff).
Here's a reference to Magitek if you're interested: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Magitek
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Ok, it seems like we need a talk.
Robot
Golem
Now, don't you feel silly?
{mod edit - images resized to fit forum}
Thanks, my bad.
Yeah - that would have to be some sort of magical fantasy world.....oh wait
Also, GW2 don't allows swords underwater....
Does your sword magically morph into a new weapon, or do you actually have to acquire a weapon to use in water?
It's fun trying to watch people rationalize the irrational. For instance....my flying animation looks stiff which is totally unreal. No...the fact that you can fly like superman is unreal, that you look stiff doing it is an interesting observation, lol.
It's a game, it's make believe. You can swim as slow or as fast as the universe you find yourself in dictates. Don't be so constrained by rules and laws of our universe. Escapism can be a wonderful thing, and GW2 is bringing us a compelling world to explore. How fast you can swim misses the point entirely.
There are special underwater weapons (check back to the picture of teh harpoon guns I posted earlier in the thread). As far as what I know from watching vids you change to your secondary if you have a weapon that don't work underwater.
I am not sure what happens if both are unusable, but I am guessing you have to change manually.
Also why realism should be only about slower movements? Why not also making plate wearers sink and cloth wearers so slow and difficult to move, that would be the worst nightmare to swim with some armor on?
Some ppl talks about realism based from which phisics happens on other MMOs
Yeah, and letrs add how much stuff players have in their backpack as well.
Let's face it, every adventurer should sink like a stone except the water elementalists (I assume they can handle water).
100% realistic swimming and underwatercombat wouldn't be fun at all in a MMO.
Not only that. Characters should also get slower with heavier backpack weight, die or get badly injured from falling from heights bigger then 3x his size, tired after a 2min combat...
I really think games couldnt be fun if they were like that
If right done they could be really fun but then the entire game needs to be realistic. Realistic combat, realistic damage (no frigging hitpoints or levels) and so on
Realism doesn't neccesarily mean boring, I can tell you that few things are more fun that to pull on my armor, get a blunt sword and do some ARMA styled fighting.
But whinning on a few unrealistic thing like underwater speed is really pointless and illogical when the rest of the game is unrealstic and made to be that way.
Right. Which is why we're not using 'immersion'. Like I said. Because your personal subjective version of immersion is something that only you understand, because it's in your head.
You're not basing immersion off of what is possible within the framework of Tyria, you are basing your immersion off of your feelings. (Which, by the way are partially based off of incorrect information in the first place. Tyrian clockpunk is based off of the Renaissance? Somebody should probably tell the Charr they're Doing It Wrong then.)
You are arbitrarily picking some things you dislike, and pointing them out as immersion breaking, but it's about as constructive as pointing to Ents in Lord of the Rings and saying 'The talking trees break my immersion.'.
There's nothing anybody can really do about that, to fix it for you, and it has absolutely 0 to do with the immersion of anybody who disagrees with you, so there's no reason for us to talk about how 'immersive' Ents are, and there's no reason for us (As in, those who disagree with you) to talk about how 'immersive' breathing apparatus is.
I'm not sure why people are comparing Asura creations, such as golems, with technological creations, such as the stuff created by the Charr.
The Asura use magic to create their inventions. All their inventions, such as golems, rely on magic. You are looking at mechanical robots and you are thinking it's this unmagical thing. Play through the EotN story line. The golems have been around since Guild Wars 1. Hell, you get your own golem as a hero in guild wars 1. They use magic. They were created with magic. Everything Asura create involves magic in some way.
In fact, most of the technology within the Guild Wars universe incorporate magic in some way. Though Charr creations rely a little less on magic.
The Engineer is profession that represents the technological advancement of the Guild Wars universe. It's meant to remind the players that this is no longer the Guild Wars 1 world. This is Guild Wars 2, 250 years in the future. Technology now plays more of a role in the lives of everyone, and the Engineer is the representation of that. It's a profession that's heavily reliant on technology.
As for the breathing apparatus being widely available. That's a situation where you just have to make it convenient. It's not like you are instantly handed a breathing apparatus as soon as you enter the game for the first time. You have to get one, but they are easily attainable. When half of the game happens to take place underwater, you have to make it widely available and easily attainable for the average gamer. You can't deny a portion of the population access to half of the game just because they can't get the breathing apparatus.
When did I ever give you the impression that I was speaking for anyone but myself? Please re-read my initial post in this thread, which coincidentally is a response to something you wrote. Do you see anything but personal opinions in that post? Do I try to pass it off as something "most people" or even "some people" agree with, or do I actually point out that it's my personal opinion?
I never claimed there was support for my point of view regarding game immersion, only that it was - in fact - my point of view. MY point of view. Not yours. Also, it was never your job to sway my opinion of the game features in the first place - leave that to the developers and programmers.
A final note: Clockpunk is one of several subgenres in speculative fiction. The difference between clockpunk and other similar subgenres is, that the technology is based on springs, gears and other clockwork components. The mechanical clock as we know it was first described in 1327 - which means the technology emerged in the early stage of the Renaissance.
Honestly all this immersion talk gets really dumb really fast. Its a game set in a world with its own physics and rules get over it. Want perfect immersion in a world thats fictional but follows all the rules of our univrese? Go read a Sherlock Holmes novel and give mmos rest.
... and steampunk is based off of steam. Usage of steam in technology as we know it was first described by the =pre-Roman Greeks=.
.... but nobody ever says Steampunk technology has to cleave to BC level Greek technology, or has their immersion ruined when somebody uses a gun because ancient Greek people didn't. (Well, maybe you do. Heck. I don't know.)
Actually, steampunk relates to the industrial revolution and James Watt's patented steam engine. Steam locomotives, steam boats, steam-powered factories. Those were some of the key inventions of that era. The agrarian society was replaced by the industrial society and industrialization was born in this period.
I would not find it odd at all if someone used a firearm in a steampunk setting.