It's not "doesn't like raiding any more". It's "never did like raiding and still doesn't".
Having to schedule your life around a game is bad.
Needing to farm peculiar gear with no use outside of a particular raid is bad.
Having to do the same raid a bunch of times in a row in order to get up for the next is bad.
Being unable to do the content you want because you're waiting for a raid lockout to end is bad.
Having to worry about losing all of your progress if your guild breaks up is bad. Especially when game mechanics seem designed with the intent to create guild drama and try to break up your guild.
I'm not against playing a game with others, whether a few others or dozens of others. But I want to be able to log in when I want to, and then jump in and play. The reason solo content is popular is not so much that people want to solo, as that people don't want to deal with a bunch of other garbage instead of getting to play the game, and in many games, soloing is the only way to do that.
This is close to my view.
I don't know if raiding is "so unpopular to the MMO Community." There are a lot of people who like to 'get stuff." They want to collect epics, link them in chat, compare gear scores, talk about their crits, etc. There are a lot of people like that and they seem to like raiding.
It's good for a game to accomodate those players, but a more dynamic world can offer other options. For me, I like 5-10 player content, but I don't want to have a second job of raiding in a guild. I would like more meaningful pvp options at end game. That would be "raiding" to me. You raid the other side and take their stuff and use it and deny it to them. And I'm not talking about full loot ffa pvp. There are other ways to do it. So there would be content for pve people (raids and dungeons) and pvp players. And they would all have the option to do either.
But being forced onto the gear treadmill associated with raiding, that is what a lot of players dislike and what I think the OP is picking up on.
Run dungeon 1 for 50+ times in order to get gear needed for the next dungeon.
Run dungeon 2 for 50+ times in order to get gear needed for the next dungeon.
... and so on.
I don't like being told where I can and cannot go in terms of content. I greatly prefer a more free-roaming approach.
I'm also no fan of the elitist attitude of many guilds. I have limited time because of real life and what some would consider an "appropriate commitment" is beyond what's practical for me. Suck up and beg for a raiding position? Not my style, not going to happen.
Overall, I think endgame raiding is a concept that fails anyone who doesn't enjoy running in the hamster wheel.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I want to play a game and have fun while i am playing. Figuring out the "mechanics" of a raid just does not = fun to me. Let alone just reading a guide on how to do it?
Too much like work for me. Just more of the turning games in to play to win rather than play to have fun.
It's not so much that it's unpopular as it is that it's what the majority of us have been doing for anywhere from 1-6 years straight and we're sort of burnt out on it. We might end up playing an MMO that has raiding in it, but we'll want some substantial improvements to other areas of the game to compensate.
I mean, if you do something for that long, there's bound to be some pushback.
Currently Watching: TSW. << Very Eager for a Beta invite. Have experience with Beta Testing. Not personally a big fan of raiding or current pve endgame mmo philosophy. Nothing wrong with it, I just sort of burnt out on it. Hardcore raider in wow from Launch to.. about 7 months ago. Currently Playing: Champions Online.
Run dungeon 1 for 50+ times in order to get gear needed for the next dungeon.
Run dungeon 2 for 50+ times in order to get gear needed for the next dungeon.
... and so on.
I don't like being told where I can and cannot go in terms of content. I greatly prefer a more free-roaming approach.
I'm also no fan of the elitist attitude of many guilds. I have limited time because of real life and what some would consider an "appropriate commitment" is beyond what's practical for me. Suck up and beg for a raiding position? Not my style, not going to happen.
Overall, I think endgame raiding is a concept that fails anyone who doesn't enjoy running in the hamster wheel.
Now you see, you think in a nutshell what I think, but you say it like raiding needs to be removed all together.
Raiding needs to be... replaced. I love a freeroaming feel, and I want the game to do a sort of dungeon, but instead its still a map anyone can join. Maybe not even serperate from the world map. I think that farming can be jsut as bad as raiding at times, but not usually. Plus when I am either not in a guild, or no one my level from my guild is on, I really hate raiding because I tend to pick a magic based class, which usually is not the most coveted thing in my expirience.
unpopular? That's all people do in WoW, Rift, Aion & (Insert Game Here) pretty sure the unpopular thing is actually the forum minority... and I don't blame people for not preferring it. It's stale content after you complete it so many times.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
I grew up playing MMO's , and I love raiding.To me it is a key factor in the games I chose.The only thing I can't stand is when a game makes every boss fight the same.I get my MMO joy and addiction fix from conquering a good Raid Dungeon.
I'm one of those odd loners who rarely if ever groups, but still likes exploring a shared world. I like the open world to be populated with all sizes of challenge and enjoy feeling that I'm helping out at the edges of some massive invasion, but actual raids are wasted on me because being part of a formal social structure just isn't something to which I aspire.
Raids although repeat a lot, often simple, and did I meantion they're prone to repeat?
There's nothing video game worthy about amassing a bunch of idiots together to all go up and auto attack a releative stationary pile of HP.
Then most of the 'game' mechanics that are added to make it seem like something more are often contrived. Then if there's anything that adds any bit of challenge to the raid, players wet their F*CKING PANTS whining about it until it's nerfed.
There's nothing good about raiding.
For MMOs, video games, hobbies.
And that's just the design aspect. The reward system is often even dumber than that. A chance roll for an item, or even worse a token grind doing the same crap over and over to get the same item a dozen other peole have. THEN EVEN WORSE THAN THAT; it'll be some item required* (absolutely required) before you can move up to the next raid.
It's a stupid mechanic.
EQ god / dragon raids seemed kind of special. The instanced hp-orgy that's came along since then; they suck.
I wouldn't say that I hated them, but i don't see them as necessary for an MMO as the OP insinuated. Plenty of the first MMO didn't have them. Ultima Online and Asheron's Call are two well known examples. Those games did have content that 20+ people ccould team up to tackle, sure. But that content was more organic than the scripted raid dungeons.
The other plus to the "raid like" group content in Asheron's Call was the fact that AC's random loot generator was awesome! It seems like the raids in WoW and other themepark games since are focused on the drops of the raid bosses and ultimately the end boss. This limits the number of folks participating getting something nice during the experience. In AC a really nice piece of loot could drop from what are considered "trash" mobs that's just as spiffy as a piece dropped from a "boss" type mob.
I also think that the MMO genre has gotten more "solo dominant" with respect to the growing number of folks coming into the genre. With a small amount of exceptions, the majority of the community aren't in large coordinated guilds to tackle such content. I'd imagine most of us older folks here on this site are also no longer apart of medium to big guilds like we once were, preferring to group loosely with the small group of good friends we've made over the years.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Maybe people prefer things like the Shatterer from Guild Wars 2, basically a boss of raid difficulty level, but without the restriction of being instanced. Excessive instancing does not mesh well with the Massively aspect of a MMORPG, especially how Blizzard totally overdoes it - end game is basically raiding, arena and rated BGs, all of which represent instanced content.
It is actually probably the reason the original Guild Wars isn't even considered a MMORPG to Arena Net and a CORPG instead, its only massively aspect was the interaction in outposts, which was limited to around 100 or 200 people per district (channel).
I noticed the mmorpg.com community for some reason cheered Anet on, when they announced no Raid Dungeons in Guild Wars 2. Well I want to ask. Why is Raiding so unpopular now days to the MMORPG community?
Isnt Raiding, a Massively Multiplayer element of PvE combat?
Would you rather future MMO to be balanced for 1v1 PvE rather than 1v20+?
I want to know why the community doesnt like Raiding any more.
Note:
Wasnt calling out Guild Wars 2, that was simply an example.
Fixed, as it's obvious the raid mentality is popular in MMO's, just not here on this site. I personally don't do the raiding thing, or dungeons in general at endgame. However there are so many raiding guilds out there I have a hard time seeing it as an unpopular thing. It seems a large chunk of players are in it simply for raiding mechanics, the whole live to raid mentality seems a strong one.
Don't mistake this community as the overall popular view for MMO's, it's basically the opposite, as the anti-mmo ideal is pushed hard here.
I think people tend to raid because there's not a lot else to do at a certain point. Raiding is just grinding with more people on the screen at once. I'd like to know how many raids (and I know they exist) actually take place because folks just want to get together and have a good time. If you're there, you're generally there to gear up for the next slog. I'm not sure if that qualifies as popular more than a necessary evil.
One thing I do know is that the allure of one day seeing those +100 Boots of Roflstomping drop, keeps us coming back to the trough. Pavlov would chuckle.
Anything that can be defeated by a script its waste of time and only serves as to make humans feel better for an not adequetely justified reason.
And raid is nothing more than a line of predetermined commands. there is no challenge to it expect finding ppl who are gonna waste their time following and executing commands at correct time. sorry execution is not something that requires skill
But since you obviously DONT want to disapoint the player by comparing him to a better player aka pvp they had to make something to make the game more appealing
I used to love to raid years ago the 54 man raid EQ had was great. Even multi raid raids (like the sleeper). I used to get a rush out of being in a guild getting server firsts. To me that was the glory days of raiding. Being a father now I just dont have time anymore and I see raids like 10 or 26 man in newer games just does not seem like a real raid. I am to active IRL to sit for 8+ hours in front of the computer.
I actually love to do raids and dungeons. Sure once u have done them 100 times or so they may get boring but i really enjoyed doing icc raid. I did it on my tank pally and my healer shaman.
For me raiding was a blast and i really enjoyed doing it weather i got gear or not and at the end of it i had all my gear. So was running it just because i enjoyed it.
I like having to work together to get bosses down and enjoyed when we would finally get a boss down for first time. Was a blast. Sure some people are in it for gear and some are in it because they are " hardcore" I raid for fun not gear or any of the other reasons if i get bored i stop doing it.
I have no clue why some peope hate raiding but i for one enjoy it. I see some idiotic statments about how raids are easy and can be done by following a script but it takes team work and alot of coordination as well. Its not as easy as soem make it out to be.
I enjoyed the challenge . The comraderie and the feeling of joy when wed finally down a guy.
I think the problem is that all current MMOs are based on a Player versus Time system. Your character's power is directly proprtionate to the amount of time you spend playing the game. Since the best gear tends to drop in raid encounters, this is inherently unfair to people who have more RL responsibilities, and are unable to commit 4-hour blocks of time several nights a week to sitting in front of the computer (but pay the same monthly sub as the people who raid 20 hours a week.)
This is also leads into games going F2P with cash shops. You only have to pay based on the amount of content you can / want to experience.
I like EVE's skill system, because it puts everyone on a level playing field. It takes the same amount of time for every single person to be able to pilot x ship, or equip x weapons, etc.
I understand two things out of it, one positive and one negative:
Raiding receives a large share of attention from game sites and public forums which puts a lot of pressure on the dev team to deliver more and more content... Meanwhile, usually only a small share of players make it through, as observed by Blizzard's lead developper. So it could be a good thing to remove this aspect so the dev team can concentrate on open world features.
It removes one major aspect of MMORPGs, which makes it more of a niche where you may not find a portfolio of activities as varied as you would like.
I noticed the mmo community for some reason cheered Anet on, when they announced no Raid Dungeons in Guild Wars 2. Well I want to ask. Why is Raiding so unpopular now days to the MMORPG community?
Isnt Raiding, a Massively Multiplayer element of PvE combat?
Would you rather future MMO to be balanced for 1v1 PvE rather than 1v20+?
I want to know why the community doesnt like Raiding any more.
Note:
Wasnt calling out Guild Wars 2, that was simply an example.
Actually GW2 has raid dungeons, so not quite sure where you heard that but they're feeding you false information. The first time you do a dungeon it's about storyline, but every other time it's a challenging raid for loot like any other MMO (albeit one I'm looking forward to). The only difference is instead of getting loot to roll on, everyone gets a token of some sort which can be traded for loot of their choice to avoid the ninja looting issue.
Anyway, I actually love raiding. I think people hate it because they've burned out on it, but I never played WoW. Like...ever...and that seems to be the biggest source of burnout on raiding material. To me, raids are like the ONLY time people get together and work towards a common goal. I LOVE working with people, even though sometimes they're terrible at it, to take down some huge boss. I've been doing Thor/Titan runs every night in Vindictus for well over a month now and I still look forward to doing it the next day.
When I played Rappelz, dungeon raids were the primary source of exp past level 60 or so, and I loved it. Got my cleric to 110 before I gave up on the game, but that was only because it was stupidly expensive.
Also, I think some of it has to do with your gameplay style. I always play healers/support characters, so dungeons are always a challenging/hectic experience for me. Either I'm working hard to keep my teamates alive, or I'm working hard to keep myself alive when I get boss aggro from spell casting. I notice people who are more DPS oriented, once they've maxed out their gear and are 'uber', seem to get bored at the lack of challenge. Whereas for me, my gear rarely makes healing any less involving, so I don't have a chance to be bored.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Give me 5-man content and you've given me team-based gameplay. That's fun.
Give me 25-man content, and you haven't given me any noticable increase in teamwork -- yet you have given me a substantial increase in irritations (scheduled gameplay, frequently losing when it's not your fault, etc) That's not as fun.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Thats why Freedom is important aspect of the game. I personally hate raiding for many many reason. I rather fight on my own to obtain same kind of loot in anywhere from monster level than waiting hours and hours for getting team together. Asheron's Call has best pve feature/design, combat system, skill level up system and such. Thats why mmorpg games sucks nowadays.... its very sad.
Raiding isn't a problem in itself. What most people are tired of is that once you reach certain point in the endgame raiding is really the only thing to do and that sucks.
Doing the same thing over and over in hope to get thta rare drop gets boring after a while, MMOs needs to offer more endgame options.
Raiding was orginal supose to be that epic thing you -could- do for fun, these days its a repeative act you -must- do in order to stay on pair whit gear and stuff.
Raiding has become very boring and a cheap way of adding "content" to a game and to work around artifical group limets the developers cant get thier head around in the open world gameplay.
its someting that will mark the end road for me in sw:tor , unfortunate once i played true the story lines and thats all whats left to do it be the day I leave the / a game
I'm not paying to get into a vitural line to repeat the same thing over and over again coz their is nothing else to do.
Comments
This is close to my view.
I don't know if raiding is "so unpopular to the MMO Community." There are a lot of people who like to 'get stuff." They want to collect epics, link them in chat, compare gear scores, talk about their crits, etc. There are a lot of people like that and they seem to like raiding.
It's good for a game to accomodate those players, but a more dynamic world can offer other options. For me, I like 5-10 player content, but I don't want to have a second job of raiding in a guild. I would like more meaningful pvp options at end game. That would be "raiding" to me. You raid the other side and take their stuff and use it and deny it to them. And I'm not talking about full loot ffa pvp. There are other ways to do it. So there would be content for pve people (raids and dungeons) and pvp players. And they would all have the option to do either.
But being forced onto the gear treadmill associated with raiding, that is what a lot of players dislike and what I think the OP is picking up on.
Run dungeon 1 for 50+ times in order to get gear needed for the next dungeon.
Run dungeon 2 for 50+ times in order to get gear needed for the next dungeon.
... and so on.
I don't like being told where I can and cannot go in terms of content. I greatly prefer a more free-roaming approach.
I'm also no fan of the elitist attitude of many guilds. I have limited time because of real life and what some would consider an "appropriate commitment" is beyond what's practical for me. Suck up and beg for a raiding position? Not my style, not going to happen.
Overall, I think endgame raiding is a concept that fails anyone who doesn't enjoy running in the hamster wheel.
Basicly for me they are not fun:)
I want to play a game and have fun while i am playing. Figuring out the "mechanics" of a raid just does not = fun to me. Let alone just reading a guide on how to do it?
Too much like work for me. Just more of the turning games in to play to win rather than play to have fun.
It's not so much that it's unpopular as it is that it's what the majority of us have been doing for anywhere from 1-6 years straight and we're sort of burnt out on it. We might end up playing an MMO that has raiding in it, but we'll want some substantial improvements to other areas of the game to compensate.
I mean, if you do something for that long, there's bound to be some pushback.
Currently Watching: TSW. << Very Eager for a Beta invite. Have experience with Beta Testing.
Not personally a big fan of raiding or current pve endgame mmo philosophy. Nothing wrong with it, I just sort of burnt out on it.
Hardcore raider in wow from Launch to.. about 7 months ago.
Currently Playing: Champions Online.
Now you see, you think in a nutshell what I think, but you say it like raiding needs to be removed all together.
Raiding needs to be... replaced. I love a freeroaming feel, and I want the game to do a sort of dungeon, but instead its still a map anyone can join. Maybe not even serperate from the world map. I think that farming can be jsut as bad as raiding at times, but not usually. Plus when I am either not in a guild, or no one my level from my guild is on, I really hate raiding because I tend to pick a magic based class, which usually is not the most coveted thing in my expirience.
Newb= Newly Enrolled Wannabe Badass.
unpopular? That's all people do in WoW, Rift, Aion & (Insert Game Here) pretty sure the unpopular thing is actually the forum minority... and I don't blame people for not preferring it. It's stale content after you complete it so many times.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
I grew up playing MMO's , and I love raiding.To me it is a key factor in the games I chose.The only thing I can't stand is when a game makes every boss fight the same.I get my MMO joy and addiction fix from conquering a good Raid Dungeon.
I'm one of those odd loners who rarely if ever groups, but still likes exploring a shared world. I like the open world to be populated with all sizes of challenge and enjoy feeling that I'm helping out at the edges of some massive invasion, but actual raids are wasted on me because being part of a formal social structure just isn't something to which I aspire.
I love group play...
Raids although repeat a lot, often simple, and did I meantion they're prone to repeat?
There's nothing video game worthy about amassing a bunch of idiots together to all go up and auto attack a releative stationary pile of HP.
Then most of the 'game' mechanics that are added to make it seem like something more are often contrived. Then if there's anything that adds any bit of challenge to the raid, players wet their F*CKING PANTS whining about it until it's nerfed.
There's nothing good about raiding.
For MMOs, video games, hobbies.
And that's just the design aspect. The reward system is often even dumber than that. A chance roll for an item, or even worse a token grind doing the same crap over and over to get the same item a dozen other peole have. THEN EVEN WORSE THAN THAT; it'll be some item required* (absolutely required) before you can move up to the next raid.
It's a stupid mechanic.
EQ god / dragon raids seemed kind of special. The instanced hp-orgy that's came along since then; they suck.
Take the best most devleoped part of a MMO and don't allow 95% of the player base to experience it and you have your answer.
So was it a good idea for Anet to leave out Raid Dungeons as a feature for GW2?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I wouldn't say that I hated them, but i don't see them as necessary for an MMO as the OP insinuated. Plenty of the first MMO didn't have them. Ultima Online and Asheron's Call are two well known examples. Those games did have content that 20+ people ccould team up to tackle, sure. But that content was more organic than the scripted raid dungeons.
The other plus to the "raid like" group content in Asheron's Call was the fact that AC's random loot generator was awesome! It seems like the raids in WoW and other themepark games since are focused on the drops of the raid bosses and ultimately the end boss. This limits the number of folks participating getting something nice during the experience. In AC a really nice piece of loot could drop from what are considered "trash" mobs that's just as spiffy as a piece dropped from a "boss" type mob.
I also think that the MMO genre has gotten more "solo dominant" with respect to the growing number of folks coming into the genre. With a small amount of exceptions, the majority of the community aren't in large coordinated guilds to tackle such content. I'd imagine most of us older folks here on this site are also no longer apart of medium to big guilds like we once were, preferring to group loosely with the small group of good friends we've made over the years.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Maybe people prefer things like the Shatterer from Guild Wars 2, basically a boss of raid difficulty level, but without the restriction of being instanced. Excessive instancing does not mesh well with the Massively aspect of a MMORPG, especially how Blizzard totally overdoes it - end game is basically raiding, arena and rated BGs, all of which represent instanced content.
It is actually probably the reason the original Guild Wars isn't even considered a MMORPG to Arena Net and a CORPG instead, its only massively aspect was the interaction in outposts, which was limited to around 100 or 200 people per district (channel).
I think people tend to raid because there's not a lot else to do at a certain point. Raiding is just grinding with more people on the screen at once. I'd like to know how many raids (and I know they exist) actually take place because folks just want to get together and have a good time. If you're there, you're generally there to gear up for the next slog. I'm not sure if that qualifies as popular more than a necessary evil.
One thing I do know is that the allure of one day seeing those +100 Boots of Roflstomping drop, keeps us coming back to the trough. Pavlov would chuckle.
Anything that can be defeated by a script its waste of time and only serves as to make humans feel better for an not adequetely justified reason.
And raid is nothing more than a line of predetermined commands. there is no challenge to it expect finding ppl who are gonna waste their time following and executing commands at correct time. sorry execution is not something that requires skill
But since you obviously DONT want to disapoint the player by comparing him to a better player aka pvp they had to make something to make the game more appealing
I used to love to raid years ago the 54 man raid EQ had was great. Even multi raid raids (like the sleeper). I used to get a rush out of being in a guild getting server firsts. To me that was the glory days of raiding. Being a father now I just dont have time anymore and I see raids like 10 or 26 man in newer games just does not seem like a real raid. I am to active IRL to sit for 8+ hours in front of the computer.
I actually love to do raids and dungeons. Sure once u have done them 100 times or so they may get boring but i really enjoyed doing icc raid. I did it on my tank pally and my healer shaman.
For me raiding was a blast and i really enjoyed doing it weather i got gear or not and at the end of it i had all my gear. So was running it just because i enjoyed it.
I like having to work together to get bosses down and enjoyed when we would finally get a boss down for first time. Was a blast. Sure some people are in it for gear and some are in it because they are " hardcore" I raid for fun not gear or any of the other reasons if i get bored i stop doing it.
I have no clue why some peope hate raiding but i for one enjoy it. I see some idiotic statments about how raids are easy and can be done by following a script but it takes team work and alot of coordination as well. Its not as easy as soem make it out to be.
I enjoyed the challenge . The comraderie and the feeling of joy when wed finally down a guy.
I think the problem is that all current MMOs are based on a Player versus Time system. Your character's power is directly proprtionate to the amount of time you spend playing the game. Since the best gear tends to drop in raid encounters, this is inherently unfair to people who have more RL responsibilities, and are unable to commit 4-hour blocks of time several nights a week to sitting in front of the computer (but pay the same monthly sub as the people who raid 20 hours a week.)
This is also leads into games going F2P with cash shops. You only have to pay based on the amount of content you can / want to experience.
I like EVE's skill system, because it puts everyone on a level playing field. It takes the same amount of time for every single person to be able to pilot x ship, or equip x weapons, etc.
Edited for grammar/spelling.
I am just sick of raiding. It bores the hell out of me.
Sometimes I feel like there is so much hype going on that the crowd would cheer at any annoucement.
I understand two things out of it, one positive and one negative:
Raiding receives a large share of attention from game sites and public forums which puts a lot of pressure on the dev team to deliver more and more content... Meanwhile, usually only a small share of players make it through, as observed by Blizzard's lead developper. So it could be a good thing to remove this aspect so the dev team can concentrate on open world features.
It removes one major aspect of MMORPGs, which makes it more of a niche where you may not find a portfolio of activities as varied as you would like.
Actually GW2 has raid dungeons, so not quite sure where you heard that but they're feeding you false information. The first time you do a dungeon it's about storyline, but every other time it's a challenging raid for loot like any other MMO (albeit one I'm looking forward to). The only difference is instead of getting loot to roll on, everyone gets a token of some sort which can be traded for loot of their choice to avoid the ninja looting issue.
Anyway, I actually love raiding. I think people hate it because they've burned out on it, but I never played WoW. Like...ever...and that seems to be the biggest source of burnout on raiding material. To me, raids are like the ONLY time people get together and work towards a common goal. I LOVE working with people, even though sometimes they're terrible at it, to take down some huge boss. I've been doing Thor/Titan runs every night in Vindictus for well over a month now and I still look forward to doing it the next day.
When I played Rappelz, dungeon raids were the primary source of exp past level 60 or so, and I loved it. Got my cleric to 110 before I gave up on the game, but that was only because it was stupidly expensive.
Also, I think some of it has to do with your gameplay style. I always play healers/support characters, so dungeons are always a challenging/hectic experience for me. Either I'm working hard to keep my teamates alive, or I'm working hard to keep myself alive when I get boss aggro from spell casting. I notice people who are more DPS oriented, once they've maxed out their gear and are 'uber', seem to get bored at the lack of challenge. Whereas for me, my gear rarely makes healing any less involving, so I don't have a chance to be bored.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Give me 5-man content and you've given me team-based gameplay. That's fun.
Give me 25-man content, and you haven't given me any noticable increase in teamwork -- yet you have given me a substantial increase in irritations (scheduled gameplay, frequently losing when it's not your fault, etc) That's not as fun.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Raiding = time consuming
Thats why Freedom is important aspect of the game. I personally hate raiding for many many reason. I rather fight on my own to obtain same kind of loot in anywhere from monster level than waiting hours and hours for getting team together. Asheron's Call has best pve feature/design, combat system, skill level up system and such. Thats why mmorpg games sucks nowadays.... its very sad.
Kain_Dale
Raiding isn't a problem in itself. What most people are tired of is that once you reach certain point in the endgame raiding is really the only thing to do and that sucks.
Doing the same thing over and over in hope to get thta rare drop gets boring after a while, MMOs needs to offer more endgame options.
Raiding was orginal supose to be that epic thing you -could- do for fun, these days its a repeative act you -must- do in order to stay on pair whit gear and stuff.
Raiding has become very boring and a cheap way of adding "content" to a game and to work around artifical group limets the developers cant get thier head around in the open world gameplay.
its someting that will mark the end road for me in sw:tor , unfortunate once i played true the story lines and thats all whats left to do it be the day I leave the / a game
I'm not paying to get into a vitural line to repeat the same thing over and over again coz their is nothing else to do.