Why does everyone think a game has to be completely innovative to be worthwhile?
It's an MMO, it has MMO gameplay, sorry if you were expecting something different.
Do you play action games and expect them not to have button mashing gameplay? It's the same thing.
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
So then you should be thrilled because it will offer far more than WOW in space. I won't repost all that is different "AGAIN" but if you look back through this thread you can find it in the event you want to know.
I see nothing game-breaking at all. But be my guest and think otherwise. It's features, and lots of them, but not one single "WHOOAAA" thing. Which I honestly expected.
Thats not what you said. You said:
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
I never said ground-breaking (which is what I assume you meant by game breaking). I said it had plenty to offer that makes it more than WOW in space. Though, there are some cool features that I like such as the Dragon Age AI style tool for your companions. Do I think a completely VO'ed MMORPG is ground breaking in and of itself, no. I think the WHOOAAA moment there is the vastness of that effort. 900 actors, 200 hours + of unique class storylines, etc. I will make you a promise, once you have been playing in a fully VOed immersive environment you will find it hard to return to anything else.
The cover system in an MMO is "unique" in how it is handled in SWTOR. I can't think of another MMO doing it. That feature itself is not ground breaking but it does not have to be in order to be unique, different, and something that sets it apart from the lame WOW in space analogy.
It will be unique amongst MMOs in the combinations of things it is doing even though many of those things may be familiar, just like Blizzard did with WOW.
You find voice acting immersive? I personally find cutscenes and the like totally not. Like for instance in ME1, the final battle cutscene wasn't how my fight went. Did it look cool, sure but, out went the immersion. I would much rather have a little read me a little story ala Icewind Dale, BG. That is more immersive than showing me something that never actually happened and instead its a scripted event. To each his own. I think that this is why I didn't play DA2 or ME2(sitting on my shelf can't gather myself to play it) I think the game offers lot of a SW fan, and I loved KOTOR1/2(well 2 was way to easy in the epic levels) so that alone has a strong sticking point. It'll be a decent game but saying VO is immersive is laughable to many.
Why does everyone think a game has to be completely innovative to be worthwhile?
It's an MMO, it has MMO gameplay, sorry if you were expecting something different.
Do you play action games and expect them not to have button mashing gameplay? It's the same thing.
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
So then you should be thrilled because it will offer far more than WOW in space. I won't repost all that is different "AGAIN" but if you look back through this thread you can find it in the event you want to know.
I see nothing game-breaking at all. But be my guest and think otherwise. It's features, and lots of them, but not one single "WHOOAAA" thing. Which I honestly expected.
Thats not what you said. You said:
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
I never said ground-breaking (which is what I assume you meant by game breaking). I said it had plenty to offer that makes it more than WOW in space. Though, there are some cool features that I like such as the Dragon Age AI style tool for your companions. Do I think a completely VO'ed MMORPG is ground breaking in and of itself, no. I think the WHOOAAA moment there is the vastness of that effort. 900 actors, 200 hours + of unique class storylines, etc. I will make you a promise, once you have been playing in a fully VOed immersive environment you will find it hard to return to anything else.
The cover system in an MMO is "unique" in how it is handled in SWTOR. I can't think of another MMO doing it. That feature itself is not ground breaking but it does not have to be in order to be unique, different, and something that sets it apart from the lame WOW in space analogy.
It will be unique amongst MMOs in the combinations of things it is doing even though many of those things may be familiar, just like Blizzard did with WOW.
First I must say that When I say WoW in Space, it is not meant as a compliment. WoW is a complete waste of time, which most people I know realized a month or two after they quit the game.
And all the stuff mentioned in this thread, fits neatly into my personal impression of "a tiny twist". Nothing is actually new, just borrowed from left and right, and put into this game. Just about all of it fits a single/multi player game perfectly, but not an MMO.
The stoyline, STILL falls heavily to the ground when everybody else is experiencing exactly the same storyline, in the same world, on the same server. It fit's perfectly to a single/multi player game, but very bad with a MMO game.
WoW was not unique in anyway. It's massive advertising, which brought around a gigantic player base, was unique though.
SWTOR is a multiplayer game disguised as an MMO, just like 90% of the rest of the MMO's.
I loved KOTOR back in the old days. But I am not gonna pay a frigging sub to play KOTOR 3/WoW in Space.
Originally posted by dougmysticey I will make you a promise, once you have been playing in a fully VOed immersive environment you will find it hard to return to anything else.
I play EVE online, TS is a VOed immersive environment . And it makes a whole lot of more sense when you are actually talking to people, instead of just listening to a voiceover. The people actually respond to you when you TALK to them. Creating a living two-way communication. Which is how it should be in an MMO.
I wouldn't hesitate a second to buy this game if it was a singleplayer game, trust me on this. But I don't want to pay for singleplayer games disguised as MMO's.
Why does everyone think a game has to be completely innovative to be worthwhile?
It's an MMO, it has MMO gameplay, sorry if you were expecting something different.
Do you play action games and expect them not to have button mashing gameplay? It's the same thing.
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
So then you should be thrilled because it will offer far more than WOW in space. I won't repost all that is different "AGAIN" but if you look back through this thread you can find it in the event you want to know.
I see nothing game-breaking at all. But be my guest and think otherwise. It's features, and lots of them, but not one single "WHOOAAA" thing. Which I honestly expected.
Thats not what you said. You said:
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
I never said ground-breaking (which is what I assume you meant by game breaking). I said it had plenty to offer that makes it more than WOW in space. Though, there are some cool features that I like such as the Dragon Age AI style tool for your companions. Do I think a completely VO'ed MMORPG is ground breaking in and of itself, no. I think the WHOOAAA moment there is the vastness of that effort. 900 actors, 200 hours + of unique class storylines, etc. I will make you a promise, once you have been playing in a fully VOed immersive environment you will find it hard to return to anything else.
The cover system in an MMO is "unique" in how it is handled in SWTOR. I can't think of another MMO doing it. That feature itself is not ground breaking but it does not have to be in order to be unique, different, and something that sets it apart from the lame WOW in space analogy.
It will be unique amongst MMOs in the combinations of things it is doing even though many of those things may be familiar, just like Blizzard did with WOW.
First I must say that When I say WoW in Space, it is not meant as a compliment. WoW is a complete waste of time, which most people I know realized a month or two after they quit the game. (after playing it for multiple years)
And all the stuff mentioned in this thread, fits neatly into my personal impression of "a tiny twist". Nothing is actually new, just borrowed from left and right, and put into this game. Just about all of it fits a single/multi player game perfectly, but not an MMO.
The stoyline, STILL falls heavily to the ground when everybody else is experiencing exactly the same storyline, in the same world, on the same server. It fit's perfectly to a single/multi player game, but very bad with a MMO game.
WoW was not unique in anyway. It's massive advertising, which brought around a gigantic player base, was unique though.
SWTOR is a multiplayer game disguised as an MMO, just like 90% of the rest of the MMO's. (or all MMOs to be exact, because all MMOs are multiplayer games)
I loved KOTOR back in the old days. But I am not gonna pay a frigging sub to play KOTOR 3/WoW in Space.
Say what you want, about the game, chances are you're going to play it anyways. You say its a WoW clone, then go on to talk about the storyline which WoW doesn't have, contradictory?
Not to mention you make choices in the storyline so even if 100 people experience the same storyline, they won't be experiencing the same story simply due to what race / sex / advanced class / alignment / companions / background and of course, choices. When was the last time any of that really mattered in what you did in an MMO? Never? Wait... ..... no, lets just go with never.
Not to mention you make choices in the storyline so even if 100 people experience the same storyline, they won't be experiencing the same story simply due to what race / sex / advanced class / alignment / companions / background and of course, choices. When was the last time any of that really mattered in what you did in an MMO? Never? Wait... ..... no, lets just go with never.
The choices are all just an illusion. We will all end up at the same place at the end. Raiding the same content over and over again. Running the same BG's. It is like a pick your own adventure book that only has one ending.
Originally posted by maskedweasel Say what you want, about the game, chances are you're going to play it anyways. You say its a WoW clone, then go on to talk about the storyline which WoW doesn't have, contradictory?
Not to mention you make choices in the storyline so even if 100 people experience the same storyline, they won't be experiencing the same story simply due to what race / sex / advanced class / alignment / companions / background and of course, choices. When was the last time any of that really mattered in what you did in an MMO? Never? Wait... ..... no, lets just go with never.
I love when people like you predict other peoples behaviour. My interest in this game is high, yes, but as it is atm. I will not be playing it, despite your "prophecy". But I have many friends who will play / are playing it, and I will talk to them, and get them to tell me more about it.
I sincerely hope that something pops up which makes me change my mind, because I was looking very much forward to this game.
And for your last statement. You know NOTHING about EVE online and other MMO's like EVE, it's obvious. Your actions can have a huge impact for other players in that game. It has been done, it is being done, but not by BioWare.
Originally posted by maskedweasel Say what you want, about the game, chances are you're going to play it anyways. You say its a WoW clone, then go on to talk about the storyline which WoW doesn't have, contradictory?
Not to mention you make choices in the storyline so even if 100 people experience the same storyline, they won't be experiencing the same story simply due to what race / sex / advanced class / alignment / companions / background and of course, choices. When was the last time any of that really mattered in what you did in an MMO? Never? Wait... ..... no, lets just go with never.
I love when people like you predict other peoples behaviour. My interest in this game is high, yes, but as it is atm. I will not be playing it, despite your "prophecy". But I have many friends who will play / are playing it, and I will talk to them, and get them to tell me more about it.
I sincerely hope that something pops up which makes me change my mind, because I was looking very much forward to this game.
And for your last statement. You know NOTHING about EVE online and other MMO's like EVE, it's obvious. Your actions can have a huge impact for other players in that game. It has been done, it is being done, but not by BioWare.
...I couldn't care less about playing a graphical spreadsheet. I tried to play EvE, it didn't interest me. I've played sandbox titles before. Darkfall, Xsyon, SWG pre NGE and to an extent Fallen Earth. I know what peoples actions can do in game, but the real truth is, its usually the same stuff over and over again, just with different people. The main problem in comparison with themepark titles is that, you have no other content other than what you've been doing the entire time.
Thats why Hybrids between themepark and sandbox will eventually rule the genre, but full sandbox titles -- completely niche and never really very popular. EvEs 300K is a success for a niche sandbox, but RIFT had over a million players within its first few months, and though we can't speak on retention, thats pretty damn good.
Its like any game that you create your own content, fun to do for a bit, but it can get tiresome after you've experienced the same things over and over again. Happens in themeparks too, but at least you have a large amount of content to work through first.
If you want SWTOR to be more like EvE.... well, that will never happen. The choices you make in SWTOR are much different than anything you will ever do in EvE. For one, SWTOR has a storyline, you have a war going on, your character has a purpose. You also have a voice, and a choice, and content created to expand on that.
I have no doubt in my mind you'll end up playing the game at some point. Most people will, especially the most critical posters as it takes a lot of interest to hate something so much.
Thats why Hybrids between themepark and sandbox will eventually rule the genre, but full sandbox titles -- completely niche and never really very popular. EvEs 300K is a success for a niche sandbox, but RIFT had over a million players within its first few months, and though we can't speak on retention, thats pretty damn good.
I have no doubt in my mind you'll end up playing the game at some point. Most people will, especially the most critical posters as it takes a lot of interest to hate something so much.
First, I know that EVE has almost double the number of subs, but this is just a minor detail.
Are you hinting that SWTOR is a hybrid?
EVE online has a very steep learning curve, so if you just gave it 1 month....you know absolutely nothing about that game, unless you read a lot about it on various news sites (describing ingame alliance and corp wars, market "wars" etc.)
EVE is a hybrid, it is not a true sandbox, but it's as close as we get atm.
You don't have to do the same stuff over and over again. There is a gazillion of ways to play EVE, you can change course whenever you please, though it can be hard to change from being a pirate to become a carebear, the other way is easier
Finally, I would ask you to stop your prophecy about other people. I am a rocksolid person, and the more you tell me I am gonna play it, the more convinced I am that I am not gonna play it, to avoid the mr.knowitalls likes, like you.
My views aren't formed by the masses, I have the balls to stand up and say what I think, even if a thousand people stand before me and laugh at it, this will only make me fired up. So keep it coming, and I will keep responding.
First, I know that EVE has almost double the number of subs, but this is just a minor detail.
Are you hinting that SWTOR is a hybrid?
EVE online has a very steep learning curve, so if you just gave it 1 month....you know absolutely nothing about that game, unless you read a lot about it on various news sites (describing ingame alliance and corp wars, market "wars" etc.)
EVE is a hybrid, it is not a true sandbox, but it's as close as we get atm.
You don't have to do the same stuff over and over again. There is a gazillion of ways to play EVE, you can change course whenever you please, though it can be hard to change from being a pirate to become a carebear, the other way is easier
Finally, I would ask you to stop your prophecy about other people. I am a rocksolid person, and the more you tell me I am gonna play it, the more convinced I am that I am not gonna play it, to avoid the mr.knowitalls likes, like you.
My views aren't formed by the masses, I have the balls to stand up and say what I think, even if a thousand people stand before me and laugh at it, this will only make me fired up. So keep it coming, and I will keep responding.
Again, I've played plenty of sandbox titles, I don't need to waste time in EvE when I already know I won't enjoy my time there. SWTOR isn't a true hybrid, but it will have some sandbox features, it has a lot of potential for an economy which you rarely find in games nowadays, PvP servers will attribute to a lot of ways the game can and will be played, including opposite faction towns being taken and held, etc. While its no SWG, it will have enough to keep those interested in creating their own content busy doing so.
If you want to call me a Mr. Knowitall thats fine, theres only one way you'll prove me wrong, and thats by not playing it. Even after launch if you say you haven't or won't play it, its really hard to judge that, seeing as how most people talk really big on forums but do the exact opposite in practice. I've been here a long time, and if theres one thing I'm starting to learn its that, the ones that are the most emotional over these games, are the ones that are the quickest to flip flop and play the game despite their "true" feelings.
I'm not saying it to piss you off, or pretend like I know everything, or to delude myself that this game is more awesome than it is, I'm just being truthful on the subject based on my experiences. If you really weren't interested, or if you didn't think the game was worth your time, you wouldn't have posted, or just announced your displeasure and moved on. We see that on other forums and from time to time, on this one, but for the most part, those posting day in and day out about all the bad things GAME-X has to offer and... "Look what they announced THIS time" type of attitude.... they are just way too emotionally invested to just let it go without trying.
Aggreed, I have a lot of interest in this game, but I got very dissapointed, and interest hasn't ceased yet, I still have a tiny shred of hope I am clinging on to.
I am provocative, because I want people to come up with a reason for me to play it.
And you know nothing about EVE, unless you actually experience it. This can't be said about most games. Content varies alot in EVE, as you decide your own path, and sometimes you are being forced to change paths by other players.
If you know one path is boring, you still have a ton of other paths to go alongside with. Personally I have changed paths in this game many times, which is why I am still playing it after 8 years.
Anyway, this is not about EVE, I only brought into discussion as an example.
So get me right, I do sincerely hope I see reasons in the future which convinces me to play SWTOR. My anger sterms from dissapointment, because I used to have very high faith in Bioware, whose games I have played back since BG.
My decline of hope started when I bought DA2, and got one nasty surprise of a dumbed down RPG, which is more an action-game, than anything else. That was the moment when I started losing faith in BioWare, seeing they jumped the bandwagon that everybody else has jumped onto (dumbing down games). Bioware has lost it's uniqueness. Bethesda is now the leader in unique (singleplayer) RPG's.
I got furthermore dissapointed when I realised that SWTOR is offering a great singleplayer storyline, in an MMO, and hearing people be all fired up on this, and primarely this. Storylines in MMO's have never meant anything to me, at all, because of what I mentioned quite a few times already (no impact on the game world). So if the storyline is the main thing of SWTOR, it's really nothing special to me.
Why does everyone think a game has to be completely innovative to be worthwhile?
It's an MMO, it has MMO gameplay, sorry if you were expecting something different.
Do you play action games and expect them not to have button mashing gameplay? It's the same thing.
Since when cant a mmo be a action game, since when do action based games dont have button (mashing) gameplay? a gerne says nothing about controls
You are right. The RPG was removed from discussion like this long ago. Games like WoW, EQ2, SWTOR should have a new suitable stamp on them. They are MMOAG (Massive multipayer online action games), action games have no time for RPG elements.
I just want a bit of the RPG back, but for every year that passes, games are getting more and more action like, and SWTOR is no different.
I do understand where you're coming from, I'm not immune from disappointment with SWTOR either. I know there are some things I disapprove of, yet I know I've reserved myself to play it already. I wasn't a fan of either DA game. I thought origins was okay... but it didn't really interest me. I like the Mass Effect series much more.
While the "single player" content is often touted as being such, I don't see that kind of content as single player specifically. The only real parts where you work by yourself is when you enter a story area. In those areas, nobody can really help you or make choices for you. Once you are on your mission though, you can help eachother, or help others in the area, and you may even find yourself grouped with someone with similar sidequest objectives even if your main storyline is different.
Storylines in general don't usually mean much to people, but thats what makes BioWare different, they make you care about what you're doing.
Eve just isn't the game for me, the whole (in the ship all the time) thing just doesn't interest me. I like more active ship based combat like SWG: JTL but I'd go mad playing Eve for any amount of time.
As for bethesda.... I don't know if you know this, but, they've had their name tied to a lot of really bad games. (well, not really BAD, but not great). They've published games like Brink, Hunted:Demons Forge and WET, all of which were rather lackluster.
I like Bethesda too, but BioWare is a different kind of developer and I think they'll shine with their first MMO even if its not everything I want it to be.
You guys are ridicoulus. They still have tons of stuff they are putting into the game. Stop actiing like World of Warcraft was the first to do anything it has.. sorry to say. it wasn't. All these people are so scared to get away from some game they've wasted 5000 hours on.
+1 on fully voiced, cinematic, crew skills, customizeable companions (with tactics) all being unique.
Also, I do not recall ever having a game company help organise guilds the way they have pre-launch. And that's already happening, and visible.
Thats not unique at all, sorry. Companions exist in FFXI for 5 or 6 years now. They are completely customizable from armor to weaponskills and even Personality. They gain skill and levels while you are partying with them.
PS: Sorry, but the only unique thing TOR has are voice over cinematics which is a minor improvement at best.
Are FFXI companions fitted with deep story and background, to the same extent as in TOR? I agree that companions are not new at all, but I have yet to play a game where they have such an important role concerning story. I haven't played FFXI so I have no idea how their mechanics work.
NOTE: This is nothing against TOR, actually I hope that TOR system is as complex, i was merely pointing out that its not new.
Yes, as i said they even have personalities. As you progress and they level up you take them through a series of quests and missions that that differ depending on which type of Adventuring Fellow you want. It's different Quests for the "Soothing Healer" type than for the "Fierce Attacker".
There is an Adventuring Fellow Bond which will trigger quests and what you can do with him/her. It's basically how you and your fellow get along. You can also increase their attributes like STR/DEX adn give them most of the equipment you can wear (depending on his role of cause).
Why does everyone think a game has to be completely innovative to be worthwhile?
It's an MMO, it has MMO gameplay, sorry if you were expecting something different.
Do you play action games and expect them not to have button mashing gameplay? It's the same thing.
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
So then you should be thrilled because it will offer far more than WOW in space. I won't repost all that is different "AGAIN" but if you look back through this thread you can find it in the event you want to know.
I see nothing game-breaking at all. But be my guest and think otherwise. It's features, and lots of them, but not one single "WHOOAAA" thing. Which I honestly expected.
Thats not what you said. You said:
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
I never said ground-breaking (which is what I assume you meant by game breaking). I said it had plenty to offer that makes it more than WOW in space. Though, there are some cool features that I like such as the Dragon Age AI style tool for your companions. Do I think a completely VO'ed MMORPG is ground breaking in and of itself, no. I think the WHOOAAA moment there is the vastness of that effort. 900 actors, 200 hours + of unique class storylines, etc. I will make you a promise, once you have been playing in a fully VOed immersive environment you will find it hard to return to anything else.
The cover system in an MMO is "unique" in how it is handled in SWTOR. I can't think of another MMO doing it. That feature itself is not ground breaking but it does not have to be in order to be unique, different, and something that sets it apart from the lame WOW in space analogy.
It will be unique amongst MMOs in the combinations of things it is doing even though many of those things may be familiar, just like Blizzard did with WOW.
You find voice acting immersive? I personally find cutscenes and the like totally not. Like for instance in ME1, the final battle cutscene wasn't how my fight went. Did it look cool, sure but, out went the immersion. I would much rather have a little read me a little story ala Icewind Dale, BG. That is more immersive than showing me something that never actually happened and instead its a scripted event. To each his own. I think that this is why I didn't play DA2 or ME2(sitting on my shelf can't gather myself to play it) I think the game offers lot of a SW fan, and I loved KOTOR1/2(well 2 was way to easy in the epic levels) so that alone has a strong sticking point. It'll be a decent game but saying VO is immersive is laughable to many.
Laughable to many within a finite group of burned out MMO players perhaps but the general audience will likely find it MORE immersive and definately over reading a wall of text. People who are playing are reporting this to be the case. Go read about those that played the flashpoints at Bioware base at ComicCon to see what they say about it.
Regardless, to each thier own, but don't assume you are in the majority there. You are missing out by not playing ME2 as it is outstanding. This is also a testiment to what my statements on the cutscene/ VO piece as ME2 was highly praised and had outstanding sales. Everyone who bought it knew what they were getting in regards to dialogue and character interaction and bought it in droves. So your statement regarding VO may well be the laughable part.
GW2 is touting VO and cutscenes with story as well so the market must be indicating this is important. That you do not like it is your personal taste.
Why does everyone think a game has to be completely innovative to be worthwhile?
It's an MMO, it has MMO gameplay, sorry if you were expecting something different.
Do you play action games and expect them not to have button mashing gameplay? It's the same thing.
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
So then you should be thrilled because it will offer far more than WOW in space. I won't repost all that is different "AGAIN" but if you look back through this thread you can find it in the event you want to know.
I see nothing game-breaking at all. But be my guest and think otherwise. It's features, and lots of them, but not one single "WHOOAAA" thing. Which I honestly expected.
Thats not what you said. You said:
It doesn't have to be completely innovative. It just have to offer something new beyond being WoW in Space™ with a tiny twist.
I never said ground-breaking (which is what I assume you meant by game breaking). I said it had plenty to offer that makes it more than WOW in space. Though, there are some cool features that I like such as the Dragon Age AI style tool for your companions. Do I think a completely VO'ed MMORPG is ground breaking in and of itself, no. I think the WHOOAAA moment there is the vastness of that effort. 900 actors, 200 hours + of unique class storylines, etc. I will make you a promise, once you have been playing in a fully VOed immersive environment you will find it hard to return to anything else.
The cover system in an MMO is "unique" in how it is handled in SWTOR. I can't think of another MMO doing it. That feature itself is not ground breaking but it does not have to be in order to be unique, different, and something that sets it apart from the lame WOW in space analogy.
It will be unique amongst MMOs in the combinations of things it is doing even though many of those things may be familiar, just like Blizzard did with WOW.
First I must say that When I say WoW in Space, it is not meant as a compliment. WoW is a complete waste of time, which most people I know realized a month or two after they quit the game.
And all the stuff mentioned in this thread, fits neatly into my personal impression of "a tiny twist". Nothing is actually new, just borrowed from left and right, and put into this game. Just about all of it fits a single/multi player game perfectly, but not an MMO.
The stoyline, STILL falls heavily to the ground when everybody else is experiencing exactly the same storyline, in the same world, on the same server. It fit's perfectly to a single/multi player game, but very bad with a MMO game.
WoW was not unique in anyway. It's massive advertising, which brought around a gigantic player base, was unique though.
SWTOR is a multiplayer game disguised as an MMO, just like 90% of the rest of the MMO's.
I loved KOTOR back in the old days. But I am not gonna pay a frigging sub to play KOTOR 3/WoW in Space.
I completely understood you did not mention WOW as a compliement. I do think what appears to be your view of MMO is off. I assume you know what it stands for so how is TOR "disguised" as an MMO? I watched a 40 minute clip in the Jedi Knight starting area and even in beta there were over 400 people in the players area. That sounds like a massively multiplayer Online game to me! He also grouped with three others running about. That too seems like a MMO to me.
So its all good, don't pay to play what you believe to be KOTOR3/WOW in space if that is what you think it will be. I will be enjoying the game that has already broken EAs highest pre-order records and having a blast as a fully informed and experience MMO player.
With how it looks like you define MMO I think you are totally out of luck in finding what you are after.
I completely understood you did not mention WOW as a compliement. I do think what appears to be your view of MMO is off. I assume you know what it stands for so how is TOR "disguised" as an MMO? I watched a 40 minute clip in the Jedi Knight starting area and even in beta there were over 400 people in the players area. That sounds like a massively multiplayer Online game to me! He also grouped with three others running about. That too seems like a MMO to me.
So its all good, don't pay to play what you believe to be KOTOR3/WOW in space if that is what you think it will be. I will be enjoying the game that has already broken EAs highest pre-order records and having a blast as a fully informed and experience MMO player.
With how it looks like you define MMO I think you are totally out of luck in finding what you are after.
My impression of MMO's have changed overtime, but technically, you are right that a lot of people, playing in the same world, makes up an MMO, no doubt about that.
But the multiplayer part still vanishes from me sight, when the MMO part really has zero impact on your personal story line. This is why I am bashing the MMO concept as much as I do. I expect them to evolve, but SWTOR doesn't really seem like it evolved the genre at all.
I would rather want zero storyline in an MMO, than a storyline which feels as fake as a story which thousands of others player are experiencing almost exactly like you do. This is why I call it a singleplayer game disguised as MMO.
PS. What's up with the hating. You seem like you WISH I wont find a game which suits me. Thank you !
It is extremely complex and taking one to level cap (which is 85 now) can take as much as 3-4 months at least.
I've heard this song and dance before. This is where so many MMO games make the mistake. Sure the casual person may take 3-4 months or longer to get to max cap, but your average player will prob do it in half that time and the power player will most likely pull it in < 1 month.
I just hope they add enough variety for people who like to level alts. That is one thing I enjoyed about WoW, I could take an alt through a number of different leveling areas. Unfortunately for me, hitting the cap in WoW was really where the game started to wear thin on me.
I just hope they add enough variety for people who like to level alts. That is one thing I enjoyed about WoW, I could take an alt through a number of different leveling areas. Unfortunately for me, hitting the cap in WoW was really where the game started to wear thin on me.
Variety for alts is one thing, I think, everyone can agree on with this mmo. Every class has a different, fully voiced, storyline, with decisions affecting said storyline. So, essentially, you could play through as the same class, making different choices, and still have a different gaming experience than your original. SW:TOR will have more than just "different leveling areas", it's an entirely different game, with the developers stating that there will be over 200 (I've also seen 300) hours worth of story for each class.
I think that, in itself, is truly noteworthy and one thing that many people have downplayed, or completely ignored, just for arguments' sake.
Oh there is the cover system which is quite new .. though it's really hard to see that playing out for me at this point. I can see that one thing making or breaking pvp.
Not sure if you can say the cover system is new at this point as the Original Stargate gate was to have it and demo'd it in one of their mini-films.
Was never in any builds that I remember (was in F&F testing and what little CB there was), still even if it was. I think a game has to make it to release (be experienced) before we can consider it as having such features and being the first to have them.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
+1 on fully voiced, cinematic, crew skills, customizeable companions (with tactics) all being unique.
Also, I do not recall ever having a game company help organise guilds the way they have pre-launch. And that's already happening, and visible.
Thats not unique at all, sorry. Companions exist in FFXI for 5 or 6 years now. They are completely customizable from armor to weaponskills and even Personality. They gain skill and levels while you are partying with them.
PS: Sorry, but the only unique thing TOR has are voice over cinematics which is a minor improvement at best.
Are FFXI companions fitted with deep story and background, to the same extent as in TOR? I agree that companions are not new at all, but I have yet to play a game where they have such an important role concerning story. I haven't played FFXI so I have no idea how their mechanics work.
NOTE: This is nothing against TOR, actually I hope that TOR system is as complex, i was merely pointing out that its not new.
Yes, as i said they even have personalities. As you progress and they level up you take them through a series of quests and missions that that differ depending on which type of Adventuring Fellow you want. It's different Quests for the "Soothing Healer" type than for the "Fierce Attacker".
There is an Adventuring Fellow Bond which will trigger quests and what you can do with him/her. It's basically how you and your fellow get along. You can also increase their attributes like STR/DEX adn give them most of the equipment you can wear (depending on his role of cause).
It is extremely complex and taking one to level cap (which is 85 now) can take as much as 3-4 months at least.
Well, if ya read through that page on the adventuring fellow, they have some rather massive restrictions on their use, and they're quite limited:
Your Adventuring Fellow will remain with you for a certain number of kills or a certain length of time, whichever comes first. The number/time increases based on your Adventuring Fellow Bond starting at a minimum of 50 mobs/ 90 minutes and increasing to a maximum of 100 mobs/ 180 minutes (see Adventuring Fellow Bond below).
And they can also only be called out once every 20 hrs.
With SW:TOR though:
They're with you at all times when you call them out, have their own voiced dialog and chime in on your decisions.
They can be set to pick up drops from enemies, and harvest raw materials while you continue to fight.
You can send them out from your personal ship on special quests for materials or diplomatic missions and they'll return with an item{s}.
You can assign them to do all the crafting for you as long as you have materials to work with, and they'll continue to do so even while you're logged off.
Can customize them extensively, armor, weapons, hair, skin, etc etc etc
You have 5 different companions to choose from at any time.
Lastly, mentioned briefly at comic-con, they said you will be able to assign combat stances/actions to them. Like stay back and heal/range attack, or get in close and tank...etc
Nothing against FFXI, its just their companions are severely limited compared to what you can do with them in SW:TOR
You kill this very important fella or whatever....jubiii, but then you realize that everyone else have done the same on your server. This makes the plot a joke.
Just like plots in any single-player game is a joke because you realize that anyone with a copy of the game has done the same things as you did.
Comments
You find voice acting immersive? I personally find cutscenes and the like totally not. Like for instance in ME1, the final battle cutscene wasn't how my fight went. Did it look cool, sure but, out went the immersion. I would much rather have a little read me a little story ala Icewind Dale, BG. That is more immersive than showing me something that never actually happened and instead its a scripted event. To each his own. I think that this is why I didn't play DA2 or ME2(sitting on my shelf can't gather myself to play it) I think the game offers lot of a SW fan, and I loved KOTOR1/2(well 2 was way to easy in the epic levels) so that alone has a strong sticking point. It'll be a decent game but saying VO is immersive is laughable to many.
First I must say that When I say WoW in Space, it is not meant as a compliment. WoW is a complete waste of time, which most people I know realized a month or two after they quit the game.
And all the stuff mentioned in this thread, fits neatly into my personal impression of "a tiny twist". Nothing is actually new, just borrowed from left and right, and put into this game. Just about all of it fits a single/multi player game perfectly, but not an MMO.
The stoyline, STILL falls heavily to the ground when everybody else is experiencing exactly the same storyline, in the same world, on the same server. It fit's perfectly to a single/multi player game, but very bad with a MMO game.
WoW was not unique in anyway. It's massive advertising, which brought around a gigantic player base, was unique though.
SWTOR is a multiplayer game disguised as an MMO, just like 90% of the rest of the MMO's.
I loved KOTOR back in the old days. But I am not gonna pay a frigging sub to play KOTOR 3/WoW in Space.
Pixels, and another 20GBs on my gaming drive.
I play EVE online, TS is a VOed immersive environment . And it makes a whole lot of more sense when you are actually talking to people, instead of just listening to a voiceover. The people actually respond to you when you TALK to them. Creating a living two-way communication. Which is how it should be in an MMO.
I wouldn't hesitate a second to buy this game if it was a singleplayer game, trust me on this. But I don't want to pay for singleplayer games disguised as MMO's.
Say what you want, about the game, chances are you're going to play it anyways. You say its a WoW clone, then go on to talk about the storyline which WoW doesn't have, contradictory?
Not to mention you make choices in the storyline so even if 100 people experience the same storyline, they won't be experiencing the same story simply due to what race / sex / advanced class / alignment / companions / background and of course, choices. When was the last time any of that really mattered in what you did in an MMO? Never? Wait... ..... no, lets just go with never.
The choices are all just an illusion. We will all end up at the same place at the end. Raiding the same content over and over again. Running the same BG's. It is like a pick your own adventure book that only has one ending.
I love when people like you predict other peoples behaviour. My interest in this game is high, yes, but as it is atm. I will not be playing it, despite your "prophecy". But I have many friends who will play / are playing it, and I will talk to them, and get them to tell me more about it.
I sincerely hope that something pops up which makes me change my mind, because I was looking very much forward to this game.
And for your last statement. You know NOTHING about EVE online and other MMO's like EVE, it's obvious. Your actions can have a huge impact for other players in that game. It has been done, it is being done, but not by BioWare.
...I couldn't care less about playing a graphical spreadsheet. I tried to play EvE, it didn't interest me. I've played sandbox titles before. Darkfall, Xsyon, SWG pre NGE and to an extent Fallen Earth. I know what peoples actions can do in game, but the real truth is, its usually the same stuff over and over again, just with different people. The main problem in comparison with themepark titles is that, you have no other content other than what you've been doing the entire time.
Thats why Hybrids between themepark and sandbox will eventually rule the genre, but full sandbox titles -- completely niche and never really very popular. EvEs 300K is a success for a niche sandbox, but RIFT had over a million players within its first few months, and though we can't speak on retention, thats pretty damn good.
Its like any game that you create your own content, fun to do for a bit, but it can get tiresome after you've experienced the same things over and over again. Happens in themeparks too, but at least you have a large amount of content to work through first.
If you want SWTOR to be more like EvE.... well, that will never happen. The choices you make in SWTOR are much different than anything you will ever do in EvE. For one, SWTOR has a storyline, you have a war going on, your character has a purpose. You also have a voice, and a choice, and content created to expand on that.
I have no doubt in my mind you'll end up playing the game at some point. Most people will, especially the most critical posters as it takes a lot of interest to hate something so much.
First, I know that EVE has almost double the number of subs, but this is just a minor detail.
Are you hinting that SWTOR is a hybrid?
EVE online has a very steep learning curve, so if you just gave it 1 month....you know absolutely nothing about that game, unless you read a lot about it on various news sites (describing ingame alliance and corp wars, market "wars" etc.)
EVE is a hybrid, it is not a true sandbox, but it's as close as we get atm.
You don't have to do the same stuff over and over again. There is a gazillion of ways to play EVE, you can change course whenever you please, though it can be hard to change from being a pirate to become a carebear, the other way is easier
Finally, I would ask you to stop your prophecy about other people. I am a rocksolid person, and the more you tell me I am gonna play it, the more convinced I am that I am not gonna play it, to avoid the mr.knowitalls likes, like you.
My views aren't formed by the masses, I have the balls to stand up and say what I think, even if a thousand people stand before me and laugh at it, this will only make me fired up. So keep it coming, and I will keep responding.
Again, I've played plenty of sandbox titles, I don't need to waste time in EvE when I already know I won't enjoy my time there. SWTOR isn't a true hybrid, but it will have some sandbox features, it has a lot of potential for an economy which you rarely find in games nowadays, PvP servers will attribute to a lot of ways the game can and will be played, including opposite faction towns being taken and held, etc. While its no SWG, it will have enough to keep those interested in creating their own content busy doing so.
If you want to call me a Mr. Knowitall thats fine, theres only one way you'll prove me wrong, and thats by not playing it. Even after launch if you say you haven't or won't play it, its really hard to judge that, seeing as how most people talk really big on forums but do the exact opposite in practice. I've been here a long time, and if theres one thing I'm starting to learn its that, the ones that are the most emotional over these games, are the ones that are the quickest to flip flop and play the game despite their "true" feelings.
I'm not saying it to piss you off, or pretend like I know everything, or to delude myself that this game is more awesome than it is, I'm just being truthful on the subject based on my experiences. If you really weren't interested, or if you didn't think the game was worth your time, you wouldn't have posted, or just announced your displeasure and moved on. We see that on other forums and from time to time, on this one, but for the most part, those posting day in and day out about all the bad things GAME-X has to offer and... "Look what they announced THIS time" type of attitude.... they are just way too emotionally invested to just let it go without trying.
Aggreed, I have a lot of interest in this game, but I got very dissapointed, and interest hasn't ceased yet, I still have a tiny shred of hope I am clinging on to.
I am provocative, because I want people to come up with a reason for me to play it.
And you know nothing about EVE, unless you actually experience it. This can't be said about most games. Content varies alot in EVE, as you decide your own path, and sometimes you are being forced to change paths by other players.
If you know one path is boring, you still have a ton of other paths to go alongside with. Personally I have changed paths in this game many times, which is why I am still playing it after 8 years.
Anyway, this is not about EVE, I only brought into discussion as an example.
So get me right, I do sincerely hope I see reasons in the future which convinces me to play SWTOR. My anger sterms from dissapointment, because I used to have very high faith in Bioware, whose games I have played back since BG.
My decline of hope started when I bought DA2, and got one nasty surprise of a dumbed down RPG, which is more an action-game, than anything else. That was the moment when I started losing faith in BioWare, seeing they jumped the bandwagon that everybody else has jumped onto (dumbing down games). Bioware has lost it's uniqueness. Bethesda is now the leader in unique (singleplayer) RPG's.
I got furthermore dissapointed when I realised that SWTOR is offering a great singleplayer storyline, in an MMO, and hearing people be all fired up on this, and primarely this. Storylines in MMO's have never meant anything to me, at all, because of what I mentioned quite a few times already (no impact on the game world). So if the storyline is the main thing of SWTOR, it's really nothing special to me.
Since when cant a mmo be a action game, since when do action based games dont have button (mashing) gameplay? a gerne says nothing about controls
You are right. The RPG was removed from discussion like this long ago. Games like WoW, EQ2, SWTOR should have a new suitable stamp on them. They are MMOAG (Massive multipayer online action games), action games have no time for RPG elements.
I just want a bit of the RPG back, but for every year that passes, games are getting more and more action like, and SWTOR is no different.
I do understand where you're coming from, I'm not immune from disappointment with SWTOR either. I know there are some things I disapprove of, yet I know I've reserved myself to play it already. I wasn't a fan of either DA game. I thought origins was okay... but it didn't really interest me. I like the Mass Effect series much more.
While the "single player" content is often touted as being such, I don't see that kind of content as single player specifically. The only real parts where you work by yourself is when you enter a story area. In those areas, nobody can really help you or make choices for you. Once you are on your mission though, you can help eachother, or help others in the area, and you may even find yourself grouped with someone with similar sidequest objectives even if your main storyline is different.
Storylines in general don't usually mean much to people, but thats what makes BioWare different, they make you care about what you're doing.
Eve just isn't the game for me, the whole (in the ship all the time) thing just doesn't interest me. I like more active ship based combat like SWG: JTL but I'd go mad playing Eve for any amount of time.
As for bethesda.... I don't know if you know this, but, they've had their name tied to a lot of really bad games. (well, not really BAD, but not great). They've published games like Brink, Hunted:Demons Forge and WET, all of which were rather lackluster.
I like Bethesda too, but BioWare is a different kind of developer and I think they'll shine with their first MMO even if its not everything I want it to be.
You guys are ridicoulus. They still have tons of stuff they are putting into the game. Stop actiing like World of Warcraft was the first to do anything it has.. sorry to say. it wasn't. All these people are so scared to get away from some game they've wasted 5000 hours on.
NOTE: This is nothing against TOR, actually I hope that TOR system is as complex, i was merely pointing out that its not new.
Yes, as i said they even have personalities. As you progress and they level up you take them through a series of quests and missions that that differ depending on which type of Adventuring Fellow you want. It's different Quests for the "Soothing Healer" type than for the "Fierce Attacker".
There is an Adventuring Fellow Bond which will trigger quests and what you can do with him/her. It's basically how you and your fellow get along. You can also increase their attributes like STR/DEX adn give them most of the equipment you can wear (depending on his role of cause).
All this of comes with plenty of Cutscenes.
Personalities can be:
Male: Sullen, Passionate, Calm and Collected, Serious, Childish, and Suave
Female: Sisterly, Lively, Agreeable, Naive, Serious, and Domineering.
It is extremely complex and taking one to level cap (which is 85 now) can take as much as 3-4 months at least.
Laughable to many within a finite group of burned out MMO players perhaps but the general audience will likely find it MORE immersive and definately over reading a wall of text. People who are playing are reporting this to be the case. Go read about those that played the flashpoints at Bioware base at ComicCon to see what they say about it.
Regardless, to each thier own, but don't assume you are in the majority there. You are missing out by not playing ME2 as it is outstanding. This is also a testiment to what my statements on the cutscene/ VO piece as ME2 was highly praised and had outstanding sales. Everyone who bought it knew what they were getting in regards to dialogue and character interaction and bought it in droves. So your statement regarding VO may well be the laughable part.
GW2 is touting VO and cutscenes with story as well so the market must be indicating this is important. That you do not like it is your personal taste.
I completely understood you did not mention WOW as a compliement. I do think what appears to be your view of MMO is off. I assume you know what it stands for so how is TOR "disguised" as an MMO? I watched a 40 minute clip in the Jedi Knight starting area and even in beta there were over 400 people in the players area. That sounds like a massively multiplayer Online game to me! He also grouped with three others running about. That too seems like a MMO to me.
So its all good, don't pay to play what you believe to be KOTOR3/WOW in space if that is what you think it will be. I will be enjoying the game that has already broken EAs highest pre-order records and having a blast as a fully informed and experience MMO player.
With how it looks like you define MMO I think you are totally out of luck in finding what you are after.
My impression of MMO's have changed overtime, but technically, you are right that a lot of people, playing in the same world, makes up an MMO, no doubt about that.
But the multiplayer part still vanishes from me sight, when the MMO part really has zero impact on your personal story line. This is why I am bashing the MMO concept as much as I do. I expect them to evolve, but SWTOR doesn't really seem like it evolved the genre at all.
I would rather want zero storyline in an MMO, than a storyline which feels as fake as a story which thousands of others player are experiencing almost exactly like you do. This is why I call it a singleplayer game disguised as MMO.
PS. What's up with the hating. You seem like you WISH I wont find a game which suits me. Thank you !
I've heard this song and dance before. This is where so many MMO games make the mistake. Sure the casual person may take 3-4 months or longer to get to max cap, but your average player will prob do it in half that time and the power player will most likely pull it in < 1 month.
I just hope they add enough variety for people who like to level alts. That is one thing I enjoyed about WoW, I could take an alt through a number of different leveling areas. Unfortunately for me, hitting the cap in WoW was really where the game started to wear thin on me.
I loved my Logic 101 class, it helps me understand the fallacies of these forums. Well played.
Variety for alts is one thing, I think, everyone can agree on with this mmo. Every class has a different, fully voiced, storyline, with decisions affecting said storyline. So, essentially, you could play through as the same class, making different choices, and still have a different gaming experience than your original. SW:TOR will have more than just "different leveling areas", it's an entirely different game, with the developers stating that there will be over 200 (I've also seen 300) hours worth of story for each class.
I think that, in itself, is truly noteworthy and one thing that many people have downplayed, or completely ignored, just for arguments' sake.
Was never in any builds that I remember (was in F&F testing and what little CB there was), still even if it was. I think a game has to make it to release (be experienced) before we can consider it as having such features and being the first to have them.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
Well, if ya read through that page on the adventuring fellow, they have some rather massive restrictions on their use, and they're quite limited:
Your Adventuring Fellow will remain with you for a certain number of kills or a certain length of time, whichever comes first. The number/time increases based on your Adventuring Fellow Bond starting at a minimum of 50 mobs/ 90 minutes and increasing to a maximum of 100 mobs/ 180 minutes (see Adventuring Fellow Bond below).
And they can also only be called out once every 20 hrs.
With SW:TOR though:
They're with you at all times when you call them out, have their own voiced dialog and chime in on your decisions.
They can be set to pick up drops from enemies, and harvest raw materials while you continue to fight.
You can send them out from your personal ship on special quests for materials or diplomatic missions and they'll return with an item{s}.
You can assign them to do all the crafting for you as long as you have materials to work with, and they'll continue to do so even while you're logged off.
Can customize them extensively, armor, weapons, hair, skin, etc etc etc
You have 5 different companions to choose from at any time.
Lastly, mentioned briefly at comic-con, they said you will be able to assign combat stances/actions to them. Like stay back and heal/range attack, or get in close and tank...etc
Nothing against FFXI, its just their companions are severely limited compared to what you can do with them in SW:TOR
Just like plots in any single-player game is a joke because you realize that anyone with a copy of the game has done the same things as you did.
Yeah, that argument is THAT stupid.