Lol if this is the extent you have to go thru to make yourself think the game "you" are interested in is more important than it really is then more power to you.Maybe you can find a good bridge salesman too while you are at it.
sadly i must agree...this genre is dying slowly but shurly....there is nothign new to "new" mmo's everythign is based on one mm WoW...sadly...SW and god forbid GW2(looks horrible in my view) are the MMO'S last hope.
That or the MMORPG genra must be redone anew...not cloed and made compleatly 100% fresh...since almost EVERY mmo out there is based off of the WoW setup its just like playing wow with a diffrent mask on.
For me this genra has died about 5 months ago...a lil while after cata was a huge dissapointment...since then NOTHING has perked my intrest and thus have not played any since....untill i heard about the realease of SW im only awaiting two games...the new Starcraft expansion and Diablo 3...hop[e blizz dont mess it up liek they did with WoW...
all said n done there is only one thing that needs to be done to save the MMO world....
MAKE IT A NEW 100% TOTALLY FRESH EXPERIENCE!
Wich sadly will never happen....i seek a game that has the PvP of Darkfall the questing of WoW and the gathering of Darkfall and crafting of WoW, also most important a SUPERIOR development team and company....liek combine Blizz with Belthasa and the makers of Darkfall...
I have actually thought this question to myself also.
The way I see it, if the game fails then MMO developers will start looking for a new way to gather attention.
I don't see as it as an end to the genre, but as a new beginning of something else.
Not saying that it will fail, because I strongly believe it wont. I also believe that IF it does, future devs will be aware of this and search for more options.
Do you know what this new way I believe is...
Social Networking.
Because you sure as hell won't get a complete sandbox game, thats for sure.
Nope sorry..If this game fails then I will be sad..because all the arrogant @holes will be playing Sw:tor..and leave us awesome GW2 fans alone...I hope this game will take those people so they can make that community as toxic as they have made other games...On the other hand..I hope pve/social players don't play this game seeing as GW2 Will be AMAZING!!! Oh..also thanks for the posionous pvp players that spam our gw2 forums of how the game will suck...I can tell u here and now that your game will be a future epic fail Anyway!---If this game fails it will not make the mmorpg fail..it will make it STRONGER!
May Technology guide you through Tyria! Asura's rule..or already rule, you just dont know it! Brain, not brawn, will change the world.
I have actually thought this question to myself also.
The way I see it, if the game fails then MMO developers will start looking for a new way to gather attention.
I don't see as it as an end to the genre, but as a new beginning of something else.
Not saying that it will fail, because I strongly believe it wont. I also believe that IF it does, future devs will be aware of this and search for more options.
Do you know what this new way I believe is...
Social Networking.
Because you sure as hell won't get a complete sandbox game, thats for sure.
Thats what i'm saying.
I don't think it be the full end of a genre...
Right now becuase of what WoW accomplished --- MMORPGS are the new gold rush of gaming entertainment, everyone wants a slice of it..
But if it turns out that gold that WoW found was just a fluke.. companies will cut back funding for future projects, or development and start looking towards more secure genres.
MMORPGS will never fully die, there is capital to be made, but what i'm saying is... the genre is quickily running into the ground in the last few years, if something doesn't change it's gonna become a neglected genre like it was Prior to WoW...
All this stated in my OP, but some people must have missed that.
TOR wont fail but if it is your last hope then you may already be doomed, this game isnt bringing us much that we have not seen before but it will still be a solid and fun game, hey its made by bioware!
MMORPGs has lost its place years ago, there's too many generic games now and a few "different" ones that just don't last long. I still go back to City of Heroes because it's the last good MMO game I've played.
So if TOR fails, oh well, it would be another title regardless me being a huge Star Wars fan.
Nope sorry..If this game fails then I will be sad..because all the arrogant @holes will be playing Sw:tor..and leave us awesome GW2 fans alone...I hope this game will take those people so they can make that community as toxic as they have made other games...On the other hand..I hope pve/social players don't play this game seeing as GW2 Will be AMAZING!!! Oh..also thanks for the posionous pvp players that spam our gw2 forums of how the game will suck...I can tell u here and now that your game will be a future epic fail Anyway!---If this game fails it will not make the mmorpg fail..it will make it STRONGER!
May Technology guide you through Tyria! Asura's rule..or already rule, you just dont know it! Brain, not brawn, will change the world.
How?
This is BioWare's first run into the MMORPG market.. atleast 80 mil in...
If it fails and they lose money to you honestily think they will try again? or stick to markets that have had success in? The latter me thinks.
I'm not sure i'm understanding why people can't grasp the simple notion of Capitialism..
How many companies are willing to risk losing millions...or companies that have had titles fail, are willing to risk that again?
How many Real Time World's need to go Bankrupt for companies to cut back MMORPG RnD funding?
1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".
- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.
- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.
2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.
It's a valid question, but unfortunately here is where you kind of screwed up the conversation
So, I think you should stop thinking about the question alltoghether and go read up on GW2. Its obvious you don't know anything about it by your comments. I think you should have read up on GW2 as soon as you saw all the "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2" comments. They are there for a reason
Go read up and come back to us with a better idea of why SWTOR is not our last hope
Heard the same thing with the final fanitsy BS and how it was going to be the alpha of Omega and it is the MMORPG's biggest turd, we are stilll her wiating for "that game" and will until....WoW turns out the lights.
1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".
- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.
- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.
2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.
It's a valid question, but unfortunately here is where you kind of screwed up the conversation
So, I think you should stop thinking about the question alltoghether and go read up on GW2. Its obvious you don't know anything about it by your comments. I think you should have read up on GW2 as soon as you saw all the "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2" comments. They are there for a reason
Go read up and come back to us with a better idea of why SWTOR is not our last hope
^ this
GW2 is where the MMO genre is taking its first big step towards change..
SWTOR is going to be a good game,but its going to be your run of the mill quest grind style MMO with voice acting instead of text,which isnt enough of a difference imo.The main selling points for TOR are the Star Wars IP,Voice Acting,and maybe it being Biowares 1st MMO,other than that it'll be run of the mill.
Alot of people realize this,alot of people are also turned away by it.
I have actually thought this question to myself also.
The way I see it, if the game fails then MMO developers will start looking for a new way to gather attention.
I don't see as it as an end to the genre, but as a new beginning of something else.
Not saying that it will fail, because I strongly believe it wont. I also believe that IF it does, future devs will be aware of this and search for more options.
Do you know what this new way I believe is...
Social Networking.
Because you sure as hell won't get a complete sandbox game, thats for sure.
Well first off unless SWTOR actually closes down before Bioware makes their money back, it won't fail. Even totally shit games such as SWG and Warhammer online managed to scrape by long after they should have died. So I really see no way SWTOR could not turn a profit. Now will its success skyrocket up to Wow like numbers? Again, seriously doubtful.
But no matter what happens, this game has been in development for several years, all of the MMOs that will come out after in the next couple of years have already been in development for some time so will not be much affected positively or negatively by this one games performance.
As to I-own_u's comment about social networking games, that shift has started already, gaming companies that tried to get in on the wow gravy train are finally starting to learn the hard lesson that an MMO is a big big responsibility, where you can't cut corners (DCUO, CRYPTIC) and for most companies, not anywhere near the best or fastest investment (do a google search for the head of lego online's semi melt down about how tough the mmo industry is). So they are turning to the much easier browser and mobile gaming industry.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".
- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.
Everytime I say this, a kitten should be given a home, Guild Wars 2 is a persisent online game, fully online, as online as WoW and SWTOR and other MMOG.
- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.
2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.
Thats because people are imagining the game based on their imagination, no game will ever match a human's imagination, where you can create anything on the go, a game can never be able to keep up with that.
I think people need to keep their expectation in check, no game will satisify that great game in their head.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I'm not sure i'm understanding why people can't grasp the simple notion of Capitialism..
I'm not sure I am understanding why you can't grasp that the simple notion that SWTOR is not the future of mmo's, if it succeeds all the more power to it, if it fails it fails and everything else everywhere else continues on as it always has and always will.You seem to like to paint pictures of stock market crashes and debt ceiling debates.
How many companies are willing to risk losing millions...or companies that have had titles fail, are willing to risk that again?
Also seem to be painting a picture here with this that applies to Bioware as if Bioware chooses not to continue in the mmo market if SWTOR doesnt succeed that the market will fail and yet seem to forget the many companies out that are still there doing and planning on future titles even Blizzard itself with its Titan project.
How many Real Time World's need to go Bankrupt for companies to cut back MMORPG RnD funding?
As you said before about Guild Wars not qualifying as an mmo this title from Real Time Worlds was even less of one if at all.
1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".
- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.
- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.
2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.
It's a valid question, but unfortunately here is where you kind of screwed up the conversation
So, I think you should stop thinking about the question alltoghether and go read up on GW2. Its obvious you don't know anything about it by your comments. I think you should have read up on GW2 as soon as you saw all the "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2" comments. They are there for a reason
Go read up and come back to us with a better idea of why SWTOR is not our last hope
1. Touche i'll agree i don't know allot about GW2, i did research into GW1, and played a little bit of it, it clearily was NOT an MMORPG, so yes.. i assumed GW2 would also NOT be a MMORPG, based off that fact i had no interest in it.. i suppose yes there is a chance it could have value...
2. For the most part, in every avenue i've looked at it's not GW2 being talked about, it's SWTORO being hyped about (This website being a fair exception.).
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
The whole genre? I remember having this same discussion when Warhammer Online came out, yet the whole industry hasn't imploded in upon itself with WAR's 100+ servers.
I would have to agree with the poster. If an Epic franchise like Star Wars with a way better than average RPG game company with 83+ million dollars can't make their MMO succeed and be the next best thing, then where does that leave the rest of the 'not so great franchises, unknown game companies with way less cash'?
It will send shock waves through the industry that maybe the old recipe of MMO's is due for a overhaul or some serious re-thinking.
SWTOR wont sink the MMO market but it will sure make companies stand up and take notice. "They (Lucas Arts with the #1 franchise and BioWare can't make an 83 million dollar MMO work?!" Good luck to the noob companies out there with 20 million investment capital. There will be successes but they won't come close to the king of MMO's.
Sure you could say that there are games that are better and have spent far less than WOW or SWTOR... *crickets*! That's all you hear! Even if your a WOW hater that MMO has had at one point, not sure if they still do, 12 million subscribers and the #1 MMO money maker ever created. Sure, you will have small compaines making "good" MMO's. EVE is an example. But EVE doesn't come up to WOW's kneecaps for subscribers or revenue and success. It is a very niche game with a loyal following but not one for the masses. Rift is doing good but not WOW great! STO...sorry I mentioned that. F2P games are doing good but... you know not great like WOW.
I am also not saying you need 80 million dollars to be successful. But when you throw the kitchen sink at a project of this magnatude, if it fails it leaves little rooom for others thinking big. Everyone has been waiting the last two-three years for a great MMO to show up and break the duldrums of MMO bordom. The waters had been drying up as WOW has stayed on top (even to my dismay because even I thought it is getting long in the tooth).
The bar will be set with this MMO. If any game were to be a WOW killer it will be this. I will give GW2 a nod but they will not even come to half of the 12 million subscribers WOW has. Star Wars has a chance at doing this and is our last hope for an epic, massive MMORPG besides WOW. May the force be with you BioWare!
I'm not sure i'm understanding why people can't grasp the simple notion of Capitialism..
I'm not sure I am understanding why you can't grasp that the simple notion that SWTOR is not the future of mmo's, if it succeeds all the more power to it, if it fails it fails and everything else everywhere else continues on as it always has and always will.You seem to like to paint pictures of stock market crashes and debt ceiling debates.
Maybe i didn't articulate my point well enough, - When Aion launched, and failed everyone spoke of how SWTORO will succeed where it failed, when STO launched SWTORO was going to replace those dishoveled fans, DCOU ditto, Rift ditto... for the last 2 years SWTORO has been made out by various communities to be the one everyone was holding out for... if SWTORO failed how can SWTORO save it? it can't... again whats next? How many must fail til people just give up on the notion of another WoW
How many companies are willing to risk losing millions...or companies that have had titles fail, are willing to risk that again?
Also seem to be painting a picture here with this that applies to Bioware as if Bioware chooses not to continue in the mmo market if SWTOR doesnt succeed that the market will fail and yet seem to forget the many companies out that are still there doing and planning on future titles even Blizzard itself with its Titan project.
Blizzard has WoW so of course they will do well, out of consumer curosity alone, that is a given - sure smaller companies will continue to push out superficial MMO's but is that what people want? To play each newMMO for the free sub month then move on waiting for the next money sink?
How many Real Time World's need to go Bankrupt for companies to cut back MMORPG RnD funding?
As you said before about Guild Wars not qualifying as an mmo this title from Real Time Worlds was even less of one if at all.
It's just an example as to how a title failing can pull a company with it.. how many companies will fall with their failing titles before other companies back away from the fickle MMO markets, and move to safer investiments?
1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".
- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.
- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.
2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.
It's a valid question, but unfortunately here is where you kind of screwed up the conversation
So, I think you should stop thinking about the question alltoghether and go read up on GW2. Its obvious you don't know anything about it by your comments. I think you should have read up on GW2 as soon as you saw all the "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2" comments. They are there for a reason
Go read up and come back to us with a better idea of why SWTOR is not our last hope
1. Touche i'll agree i don't know allot about GW2, i did research into GW1, and played a little bit of it, it clearily was NOT an MMORPG, so yes.. i assumed GW2 would also NOT be a MMORPG, based off that fact i had no interest in it.. i suppose yes there is a chance it could have value...
2. For the most part, in every avenue i've looked at it's not GW2 being talked about, it's SWTORO being hyped about (This website being a fair exception.).
I suggest to go look at GW2 info. I don't know which avenues you have been looking for information but basically all MMO sites cover GW2 extensively, and even mainstream sites and mags(gamespot, gameinformer, gametrailers ect.) report on GW2 and look at it with very high expectations. Even G4TV! which is probably the most mainstream place you can go to has covered GW2 and with very high expectations. Believe me when I say, SWTOR is not our last hope.
It will fail, me, in the long run .. of this I am fairly certain. it will not fail a large enough population, immediately enough for the industry to sustain any major damage, imo. There will be plenty of people content to pay EA/Bioware/LA for at least 2 probably more like 5 years at minimum, for this glorified LAN game with an AH and Chat Box which is actually worse for the industry imo than if it were to completely fail.
Really, those of us looking for something more than the next solo-centric with chat box, some group content and an AH game need someone to create a new genre and let the Biowares/Blizzards of the world have this pile of an industry.
We could call it Massively Community Driven Role Playing Games. MCDRPG ... the kinds of games where you actually mean something to the game world at large. if nothing else there will be less bickering on these forums.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
1. I keep hearing people saw "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2".
- First off thats crap, GW isn't an MMORPG to begin with, it's an RPG with online elements, unless they are changing that fact in GW2, i ain't buy that.
- 2nd off, the players of the GW franchise are not the -bulk- of the MMO consumer base, they are not even an MMO consumer, again, i ain't buying it.
2. If not SWTOR then what? It will always be the same -- " hype that game, it fails, hype this game it fails", rinse repeat.. the industry will degrade into superficial titles that become money sinks for both consumer, and industry, open your eyes Vet MMO'ers are already quitting the genre in flocks for so many this is the last chance.
It's a valid question, but unfortunately here is where you kind of screwed up the conversation
So, I think you should stop thinking about the question alltoghether and go read up on GW2. Its obvious you don't know anything about it by your comments. I think you should have read up on GW2 as soon as you saw all the "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2" comments. They are there for a reason
Go read up and come back to us with a better idea of why SWTOR is not our last hope
1. Touche i'll agree i don't know allot about GW2, i did research into GW1, and played a little bit of it, it clearily was NOT an MMORPG, so yes.. i assumed GW2 would also NOT be a MMORPG, based off that fact i had no interest in it.. i suppose yes there is a chance it could have value...
2. For the most part, in every avenue i've looked at it's not GW2 being talked about, it's SWTORO being hyped about (This website being a fair exception.).
I suggest to go look at GW2 info. I don't know which avenues you have been looking for information but basically all MMO sites cover GW2 extensively, and even mainstream sites and mags(gamespot, gameinformer, gametrailers ect.) report on GW2 and look at it with very high expectations. Even G4TV! which is probably the most mainstream place you can go to has covered GW2 and with very high expectations. Believe me when I say, SWTOR is not our last hope.
But Star Wars IV is a New Hope ;P
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
@OP - your premise is flawed, but I doubt it matters because the measure of whether a game is a failure or not is really subjective. Given the developer in question, I think it unlikely that they will release a half finished PoS (like FFXIV) or a game that just doesn't seem to have enough content to keep people playing. I think Bioware knows what it is doing in terms of making games.
I don't think that Bioware has the proper perspective to see where they can make SWTOR into a better MMO than the rest of what the market has to offer, and too be honest, no company really does until they have had a game out on the market for a few years. In the mean time, Bioware is doing what they do best, stories, and putting it into an MMO.
Now, GW1 may not have been an MMO, but Anet has had years to deal with figuring out how to get things working in an online game. Additionally, Jeff Strain helped develop the game engine for both GW1 and 2. maybe you should look up that name...
GW2 is actually an MMO, and it has gotten a lot of attention from people on this site fore any number of reasons, but when comparing it to SWTOR, you could say they have a major point of similarity (large amount of VO content and a focus on story). It is where they are different that a lot of the back and forth between the fan bases comes from. some of where are...
style of combat.
Art, Setting, Environment.
Teamwork mechanics (in most games it is called the holy trinity) for group content.
method of allowing for players to complete content on their own.
...and any number of smaller things.
So...if SWTOR "failed", nothing would change. If GW2 "failed" nothing would change. People will still make and play MMOs.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
I don't understand the logic of this topic. I honestly wish I could.
1. Have you witnessed the trend of mmos over the last few years? An mmo comes out, everyone swears by the beard of Odin that it will kill wow, it goes f2p or holds on by a thread, another mmo rises. The cycle continues.
Examples:
Lotro
Age of Conan
Warhammer
Aoin
2. At most I could understand you claiming that mmos will drastically change very soon or an innovative evolution in online gaming, this I can understand. So much hasn't been done with the genre that could revolutionize the market (3D online gaming, social networking game systems (not facebook but mmos being built with social networking tools, etc).
3. The genre has changed gaming forever to the point that I don't think we can ever return to single player games without understanding the demand for socializing. The market may indeed change, but it will not die.
I am not sure if I am going to play this game and I cannot have any opinion on it since I have not played it. However if it is simply WoW with voice acting and a Star Wars skin then they can keep it. And if it fails because of this and the genre dies then I say it would deserve to die. I certainly wouldn't miss it if this were the case and playing the same game (tweaked and re-skinned as it may be) isn't appealing to me. At this point, it is really impossible for most of us to determine any of this. Time will tell.
I don't understand the logic of this topic. I honestly wish I could.
1. Have you witnessed the trend of mmos over the last few years? An mmo comes out, everyone swears by the beard of Odin that it will kill wow, it goes f2p or holds on by a thread, another mmo rises. The cycle continues.
Examples:
Lotro
Age of Conan
Warhammer
Aoin
2. At most I could understand you claiming that mmos will drastically change very soon or an innovative evolution in online gaming, this I can understand. So much hasn't been done with the genre that could revolutionize the market (3D online gaming, social networking game systems (not facebook but mmos being built with social networking tools, etc).
3. The genre has changed gaming forever to the point that I don't think we can ever return to single player games without understanding the demand for socializing. The market may indeed change, but it will not die.
Most posts here don't have much logic. They are simply blind opinions stated as fact, often intended only to stir the pot by people who would like to portray themselves as someone who has great insight into something they probably know very little about.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Comments
Lol if this is the extent you have to go thru to make yourself think the game "you" are interested in is more important than it really is then more power to you.Maybe you can find a good bridge salesman too while you are at it.
sadly i must agree...this genre is dying slowly but shurly....there is nothign new to "new" mmo's everythign is based on one mm WoW...sadly...SW and god forbid GW2(looks horrible in my view) are the MMO'S last hope.
That or the MMORPG genra must be redone anew...not cloed and made compleatly 100% fresh...since almost EVERY mmo out there is based off of the WoW setup its just like playing wow with a diffrent mask on.
For me this genra has died about 5 months ago...a lil while after cata was a huge dissapointment...since then NOTHING has perked my intrest and thus have not played any since....untill i heard about the realease of SW im only awaiting two games...the new Starcraft expansion and Diablo 3...hop[e blizz dont mess it up liek they did with WoW...
all said n done there is only one thing that needs to be done to save the MMO world....
MAKE IT A NEW 100% TOTALLY FRESH EXPERIENCE!
Wich sadly will never happen....i seek a game that has the PvP of Darkfall the questing of WoW and the gathering of Darkfall and crafting of WoW, also most important a SUPERIOR development team and company....liek combine Blizz with Belthasa and the makers of Darkfall...
I have actually thought this question to myself also.
The way I see it, if the game fails then MMO developers will start looking for a new way to gather attention.
I don't see as it as an end to the genre, but as a new beginning of something else.
Not saying that it will fail, because I strongly believe it wont. I also believe that IF it does, future devs will be aware of this and search for more options.
Do you know what this new way I believe is...
Social Networking.
Because you sure as hell won't get a complete sandbox game, thats for sure.
Nope sorry..If this game fails then I will be sad..because all the arrogant @holes will be playing Sw:tor..and leave us awesome GW2 fans alone...I hope this game will take those people so they can make that community as toxic as they have made other games...On the other hand..I hope pve/social players don't play this game seeing as GW2 Will be AMAZING!!!
Oh..also thanks for the posionous pvp players that spam our gw2 forums of how the game will suck...I can tell u here and now that your game will be a future epic fail 
Anyway!---If this game fails it will not make the mmorpg fail..it will make it STRONGER!
May Technology guide you through Tyria! Asura's rule..or already rule, you just dont know it! Brain, not brawn, will change the world.
Thats what i'm saying.
I don't think it be the full end of a genre...
Right now becuase of what WoW accomplished --- MMORPGS are the new gold rush of gaming entertainment, everyone wants a slice of it..
But if it turns out that gold that WoW found was just a fluke.. companies will cut back funding for future projects, or development and start looking towards more secure genres.
MMORPGS will never fully die, there is capital to be made, but what i'm saying is... the genre is quickily running into the ground in the last few years, if something doesn't change it's gonna become a neglected genre like it was Prior to WoW...
All this stated in my OP, but some people must have missed that.
TOR wont fail but if it is your last hope then you may already be doomed, this game isnt bringing us much that we have not seen before but it will still be a solid and fun game, hey its made by bioware!
Playing GW2..
MMORPGs has lost its place years ago, there's too many generic games now and a few "different" ones that just don't last long. I still go back to City of Heroes because it's the last good MMO game I've played.
So if TOR fails, oh well, it would be another title regardless me being a huge Star Wars fan.
How?
This is BioWare's first run into the MMORPG market.. atleast 80 mil in...
If it fails and they lose money to you honestily think they will try again? or stick to markets that have had success in? The latter me thinks.
I'm not sure i'm understanding why people can't grasp the simple notion of Capitialism..
How many companies are willing to risk losing millions...or companies that have had titles fail, are willing to risk that again?
How many Real Time World's need to go Bankrupt for companies to cut back MMORPG RnD funding?
It's a valid question, but unfortunately here is where you kind of screwed up the conversation
So, I think you should stop thinking about the question alltoghether and go read up on GW2. Its obvious you don't know anything about it by your comments. I think you should have read up on GW2 as soon as you saw all the "Big deal if SWTOR fails, we have GW2" comments. They are there for a reason
Go read up and come back to us with a better idea of why SWTOR is not our last hope
Heard the same thing with the final fanitsy BS and how it was going to be the alpha of Omega and it is the MMORPG's biggest turd, we are stilll her wiating for "that game" and will until....WoW turns out the lights.
^ this
GW2 is where the MMO genre is taking its first big step towards change..
SWTOR is going to be a good game,but its going to be your run of the mill quest grind style MMO with voice acting instead of text,which isnt enough of a difference imo.The main selling points for TOR are the Star Wars IP,Voice Acting,and maybe it being Biowares 1st MMO,other than that it'll be run of the mill.
Alot of people realize this,alot of people are also turned away by it.
Well first off unless SWTOR actually closes down before Bioware makes their money back, it won't fail. Even totally shit games such as SWG and Warhammer online managed to scrape by long after they should have died. So I really see no way SWTOR could not turn a profit. Now will its success skyrocket up to Wow like numbers? Again, seriously doubtful.
But no matter what happens, this game has been in development for several years, all of the MMOs that will come out after in the next couple of years have already been in development for some time so will not be much affected positively or negatively by this one games performance.
As to I-own_u's comment about social networking games, that shift has started already, gaming companies that tried to get in on the wow gravy train are finally starting to learn the hard lesson that an MMO is a big big responsibility, where you can't cut corners (DCUO, CRYPTIC) and for most companies, not anywhere near the best or fastest investment (do a google search for the head of lego online's semi melt down about how tough the mmo industry is). So they are turning to the much easier browser and mobile gaming industry.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I think people need to keep their expectation in check, no game will satisify that great game in their head.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
1. Touche i'll agree i don't know allot about GW2, i did research into GW1, and played a little bit of it, it clearily was NOT an MMORPG, so yes.. i assumed GW2 would also NOT be a MMORPG, based off that fact i had no interest in it.. i suppose yes there is a chance it could have value...
2. For the most part, in every avenue i've looked at it's not GW2 being talked about, it's SWTORO being hyped about (This website being a fair exception.).
The whole genre? I remember having this same discussion when Warhammer Online came out, yet the whole industry hasn't imploded in upon itself with WAR's 100+ servers.
I would have to agree with the poster. If an Epic franchise like Star Wars with a way better than average RPG game company with 83+ million dollars can't make their MMO succeed and be the next best thing, then where does that leave the rest of the 'not so great franchises, unknown game companies with way less cash'?
It will send shock waves through the industry that maybe the old recipe of MMO's is due for a overhaul or some serious re-thinking.
SWTOR wont sink the MMO market but it will sure make companies stand up and take notice. "They (Lucas Arts with the #1 franchise and BioWare can't make an 83 million dollar MMO work?!" Good luck to the noob companies out there with 20 million investment capital. There will be successes but they won't come close to the king of MMO's.
Sure you could say that there are games that are better and have spent far less than WOW or SWTOR... *crickets*! That's all you hear! Even if your a WOW hater that MMO has had at one point, not sure if they still do, 12 million subscribers and the #1 MMO money maker ever created. Sure, you will have small compaines making "good" MMO's. EVE is an example. But EVE doesn't come up to WOW's kneecaps for subscribers or revenue and success. It is a very niche game with a loyal following but not one for the masses. Rift is doing good but not WOW great! STO...sorry I mentioned that. F2P games are doing good but... you know not great like WOW.
I am also not saying you need 80 million dollars to be successful. But when you throw the kitchen sink at a project of this magnatude, if it fails it leaves little rooom for others thinking big. Everyone has been waiting the last two-three years for a great MMO to show up and break the duldrums of MMO bordom. The waters had been drying up as WOW has stayed on top (even to my dismay because even I thought it is getting long in the tooth).
The bar will be set with this MMO. If any game were to be a WOW killer it will be this. I will give GW2 a nod but they will not even come to half of the 12 million subscribers WOW has. Star Wars has a chance at doing this and is our last hope for an epic, massive MMORPG besides WOW. May the force be with you BioWare!
I suggest to go look at GW2 info. I don't know which avenues you have been looking for information but basically all MMO sites cover GW2 extensively, and even mainstream sites and mags(gamespot, gameinformer, gametrailers ect.) report on GW2 and look at it with very high expectations. Even G4TV! which is probably the most mainstream place you can go to has covered GW2 and with very high expectations. Believe me when I say, SWTOR is not our last hope.
It will fail, me, in the long run .. of this I am fairly certain. it will not fail a large enough population, immediately enough for the industry to sustain any major damage, imo. There will be plenty of people content to pay EA/Bioware/LA for at least 2 probably more like 5 years at minimum, for this glorified LAN game with an AH and Chat Box which is actually worse for the industry imo than if it were to completely fail.
Really, those of us looking for something more than the next solo-centric with chat box, some group content and an AH game need someone to create a new genre and let the Biowares/Blizzards of the world have this pile of an industry.
We could call it Massively Community Driven Role Playing Games. MCDRPG ... the kinds of games where you actually mean something to the game world at large. if nothing else there will be less bickering on these forums.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
But Star Wars IV is a New Hope ;P
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
@OP - your premise is flawed, but I doubt it matters because the measure of whether a game is a failure or not is really subjective. Given the developer in question, I think it unlikely that they will release a half finished PoS (like FFXIV) or a game that just doesn't seem to have enough content to keep people playing. I think Bioware knows what it is doing in terms of making games.
I don't think that Bioware has the proper perspective to see where they can make SWTOR into a better MMO than the rest of what the market has to offer, and too be honest, no company really does until they have had a game out on the market for a few years. In the mean time, Bioware is doing what they do best, stories, and putting it into an MMO.
Now, GW1 may not have been an MMO, but Anet has had years to deal with figuring out how to get things working in an online game. Additionally, Jeff Strain helped develop the game engine for both GW1 and 2. maybe you should look up that name...
GW2 is actually an MMO, and it has gotten a lot of attention from people on this site fore any number of reasons, but when comparing it to SWTOR, you could say they have a major point of similarity (large amount of VO content and a focus on story). It is where they are different that a lot of the back and forth between the fan bases comes from. some of where are...
style of combat.
Art, Setting, Environment.
Teamwork mechanics (in most games it is called the holy trinity) for group content.
method of allowing for players to complete content on their own.
...and any number of smaller things.
So...if SWTOR "failed", nothing would change. If GW2 "failed" nothing would change. People will still make and play MMOs.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
I don't understand the logic of this topic. I honestly wish I could.
1. Have you witnessed the trend of mmos over the last few years? An mmo comes out, everyone swears by the beard of Odin that it will kill wow, it goes f2p or holds on by a thread, another mmo rises. The cycle continues.
Examples:
Lotro
Age of Conan
Warhammer
Aoin
2. At most I could understand you claiming that mmos will drastically change very soon or an innovative evolution in online gaming, this I can understand. So much hasn't been done with the genre that could revolutionize the market (3D online gaming, social networking game systems (not facebook but mmos being built with social networking tools, etc).
3. The genre has changed gaming forever to the point that I don't think we can ever return to single player games without understanding the demand for socializing. The market may indeed change, but it will not die.
I am not sure if I am going to play this game and I cannot have any opinion on it since I have not played it. However if it is simply WoW with voice acting and a Star Wars skin then they can keep it. And if it fails because of this and the genre dies then I say it would deserve to die. I certainly wouldn't miss it if this were the case and playing the same game (tweaked and re-skinned as it may be) isn't appealing to me. At this point, it is really impossible for most of us to determine any of this. Time will tell.
Most posts here don't have much logic. They are simply blind opinions stated as fact, often intended only to stir the pot by people who would like to portray themselves as someone who has great insight into something they probably know very little about.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already