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It pains me to say, but the "fighting" seems rather...boring
Joshua69
Member UncommonPosts: 953
I've watched trailers, game play videos, class explination videos, dungeon trailers, etc. I like to think i've watched a majority of whats out there. And as much as I love SWTOR (getting $150 collecters), the fighting seems rather boring, drawl, simply put, boring. Now, this is only my Opinion from videos - that to my knowledge are all early level videos, but there doesn't seem to be much going on
The ranged fighters are just standing back and blasting, there isn't any huge blast, or rain of bombs, there isn't much of anything. the melee is just standing there swinging their lightsaber (which is badass). It all looks fun, but, there just isn't a lot going on. I really hope this is just low level fighting. Granted all our expecations are through the roof, but when it comes down to aspects being better than other aspects, game play should be really flashy and look badass, at this point.
Comments
you need to watch some of the better in game footage then
the sith force users have all kinds of things going on, including a crushing field of force fueled hatred surrounding the tanks causing damage and hate on pve mobs near them, just dmg to people in range in pvp
the trooper has a quake worthy BFG with 10+ special attacks including grenades bomb shots taser blasts ect
the bounty hunter has more tricks then boba fett ever dreamt of
the jedi have saber stances and multiple strikes
you seem to have not put much effort into seeing the in game combat honesty, just watching the youtube video on the animation evolution cycle over the last year shows you tons of the moves in action and their current names
What everyone else say, - This game is all about story, not gameplay
So you might have to be a star wars fan to like this game after all then. Doesnt really matter to me because i wont play it tho ^^
Realize Realeyes Reallies
This is one of the few things im negative to also, it might get better after some levels when they get enough skills but what we have seen so far looks rather dull combat wise.
Lots of other people prefer that combat it seems so not nessery a bad design, it just dont suit me very well. Rest of the game seems rather good so ill play it, but im not excited.
You should watch these 4 videos, if you havn't already, then lets see what you say:
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Combat Animations Compilation
SW:TOR Putting the entertainment back in MMOs
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
We've not seen anything above lvl 8 yet, but that 4th video that covers the combat. I don't see how anyone could say that there isn't a lot going on. When a force user is blocking blaster fire and lightsaber attacks all around them and from other enemies while you're fighting another...thats some epic combat with tons going on. I've never seen that amount of action in an MMO before, and it must've been a nightmare to program.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Combat Animations Compilation
SW:TOR Putting the entertainment back in MMOs
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Combat Animations Compilation
SW:TOR Putting the entertainment back in MMOs
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
Unless any of you actual enjoy combat in games like WOW or EQ then you guys are going to be so disapointed.
The only good combat is when you are actively involved in the combat ie aiming the gun at a moving target or blocking then counter striking someone in melee. The kind of combat you get in games like PlanetSide and Darkfall / Mortal Online.
We now know that SWTOR uses the same kind of combat as WOW and EQ so yes the OP is correct this game is going to have boring combat.
This is such a shame as Star Wars really deserves a good pew pew lazer fight and exciting light sabre play. Unfortunatly what we get is crapped old combat that was designed for games when the internet had too much latency to allow for MMOFPS (yet PlanetSide and WW2Online somehow managed to do it back in the early 2000s).
Like I said I feel very saddened by the combat in SWTOR but people seem to still buy games with out real combat in them, just look at the number of players of WOW. Kind of sad.
I made a poll here, and the big majority were more interested in the pure "MMO" side of SWTOR than in the story.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
@OP: While the combat may look unimpressive to some (if I'm honest, I found any combat from any upcoming MMO looking unimpressive, GW2 and TERA included, next to watching AoC or Vindictus combat videos, but that doesn't say anything about how it'll feel when playing), that's a difference of how the combat gameplay will feel when actually ingame.
Granted, how combat or any gameplay experience feels will always be subjective and differs from one player to the next, but here are the impressions of a number of people who actually played SWTOR and who reported their impressions:
Combat and overall gameplay
Summer/Fall 2010
Not only was combat very fast and seamless, the UI was very snappy and responsive (which for me at least is a make or break deal). You can sit down and feel comfortable right off the bat if your are an experienced WSAD player (Harvest151)
Gameplay wise the first thing that really surprised me was that combat felt very smooth and right/nice. You don't really notice it until you get to play but it's smooth, you're always busy fighting and not just standing still waiting on or casting skills, even with the 3 abilities I had. I think a large part of this is due to the fact several abilities can be fired while moving. Combat felt very dynamic and fluid (Raul)
Combat felt.. more action packed? I mean I had only 3 actual skills at this level but I was still constantly doing something, being able to move and shoot had a big impact on that. Due to the nature of the AOE attacks (like wrist rocket) and fighting multiple enemies you would also manage your targets while moving. Like if one guy had 10% health left and a guy next to him 60% you'd switch target to the 60% guy before firing your wrist rocket because it does (or seemed) to do more damage to the primary target. I can imagine that when acquiring CC skills you will be doing a lot more target managing like this. Fighting multiple opponents was a good move on their side. It makes a lot of difference. Because you are almost always fighting multiple opponents and because you have several AOE attacks the fights become a bit more interactive. Flamethrower for instance is a cone attack channel. So you want to position yourself in a direction so that you hit as many opponents as possible. So even at a low level you are managing several things in each fight rather than pummel one enemy for several seconds (Raul)
All of it feels very natural from the very beginning of play. BioWare has chosen to immediately equip the player with potent powers that are visually satisfying (Jeuxvideo)
Jedi Immersion Day, Dec 2010
The companion combat AI is what sets it apart from the AI exhibited by many MMO pets. Qyzen engaged targets more like a companion in Mass Effect then a pet in World of Warcraft. He appeared to choose weak targets and always disengaged crowd controlled mobs without any input from the player. This last part made it much easier to use the Consular's skill rotation without needing to direct Qyzen to attack specific mobs or worrying about him breaking a Stasis prematurely. Apart from combat, Qyzen was an active part of the early Jedi Consular story and participated in multiple conversations. However, we only noticed him interjecting his opinions on quests that directly related to his story and not during random side quests - Darthhater
For the people worried that SWTOR is going to be all talking and no fighting, stop worrying. Combat itself was very satisfying - Royce, Massively
In many MMO’s death only tends to happen when you accidentally aggro another mob while your leveling up. In TOR you have no choice but to take on multiple enemies at a time, so you can’t just sit there with one target, pressing a pattern of keys. You have to adapt and think on your feet, otherwise you will be as good as a pile of steaming bantha poodoo. Let me highlight a combat scenario that stuck out and you will get a better feel for how important using the right abilities at the right time is in The Old Republic. I remember seeing two Seeker Droids (more info on them here) near an entrance I wanted to go through. I thought to myself “heh.. these guys don’t stand a chance!” pulled out my training blade and charged in. I used “Stasis Field” on the enemy on the right, which lifted him into the air (ala mass effect) and unable to do anything. Then I switched my gaze to the other one who was already blasting away at me. Before I could do anything else, three more Seeker droids turned off their cloaking devices and suddenly I found myself dealing, not with two targets, but five. That was the “uh oh, time to spit out the coffee and lift myself off my chair” moment. They surrounded me quickly and as the droid who I was holding back with rocks and debris finally closed in on me, that’s when I decided to use “Force Wave,” which threw all of them away and down to the ground in separate directions. This massive shockwave was enough to weaken them all and even kill the droid who had been enduring the rubble I was tossing at him with Telekenetic Throw. While they were getting off the ground I realized the droid who I had sent floating up in the air earlier was probably about to get back into the mix. I hurled the boulder at him as he floated in the air, doing enough damage to nearly kill him off. From that point on I used my saber to clean up the mess and kept them at bay with my Telekenetic Throw ability when needed. That encounter was not any form of a special raid encounter, that was just me as a Jedi in the wilderness coming across what you might call “the common mob,” at level five. These kinds of things happened all the time, and I have never been so tense in an MMO at this low of a level. I caught myself saying “phew” several times out loud after barely surviving a difficult moment - Branden, Torocast
At this point I was well on my way to constructing my lightsaber. There was one last obstacle in my way before arriving at the forge, a big Flesh Raider boss. He was no push over, and the odds were stacked against me. It was me, my companion and him. I sent my companion in for the first strike and though he was temporarily distracted by that, it didn’t take long for aggro to transfer over to me. I had to walk a tight line of keeping him at bay and keeping him from killing my companion who was trailing behind him doing damage as I slowed him down with Telekenetic Throw. It was not an easy fight, and it really proved to me that they can make the one on one battles feel heroic too. At one point I charged towards him and used my “Force Wave” ability in the hopes of pushing him back and down to the ground, but at the same time he stomped on the ground! The result was my companion, him, and I, all hurling back in opposite directions just like Obi-Wan and Anakin in their duel on Mustafar. I eventually took him out, but not before getting down to around five percent health even after using a stim pack during the fight - Branden, Torocast
PAX East 2011
In fact, the animations for all the spells and effects were fantastic. When I watched videos of the game prior to playing it, I was severely underwhelmed. But playing the title and experiencing the combat makes a world of difference. It’s still fairly traditional stuff, but it’s fun (William Murphy, mmorpg.com)
Again I want to point out the speed of the game which has improved drastically since the last build we saw. The light saber fighting flowed much faster and felt more like an action RPG (Garrett Fuller, mmorpg.com)
Overall the team I was with worked very well and the classes definitely had to support each other to get to the base. No one was bored by any means (Garrett Fuller, mmorpg.com)
One of the nice parts about combat is that it's far more forgiving than the usual holy trinity model -- taunts are present, but the loss of aggro doesn't equal party death. Things are a bit more bouncy and frantic, and it looks like most classes have tools to get out of trouble when necessary. There was a slightly loose feel to combat here, with a number of things happening without becoming overwhelming. Having an ironclad hold on enemy attention wasn't nearly as important as keeping awareness of the battlefield, and it's nice to see that the small party size is being used to push players toward a greater variety of roles (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Gameplay ranged (appropriately) from simple to complex and never too much in one direction. [Taral V] was an enjoyable challenge though, and it was one that encouraged us to try out different tactics and strategies each time, to varying degrees of success (Grant, desktopreview)
While the group cut a swath through the initial mobs, with a nicely coordinated effort between the Scoundrel, Sage, Jedi Guardian (which was a scrapper) and Republic Trooper (which was a tank), it still felt satisfying and logical. When the group faced off against a boss and his pet, the group ran into trouble. The boss’ pet was felled once, but the group was still wiped each time. It only made the group more diligent, rather than frustrated. There was a freshness and style to the combat that hasn’t been felt in a long time, partly because the game’s futuristic setting and the familiar archetypes, and partly because the game feels really well-designed (Falcon, tmrzoo)
Once in the thick of things, the action didn't stop. Powers and abilities are varied and go from visceral thrusts of the light saber to massive bursts of force knocking back entire groups of enemies. A leap in and stun would allow my Commando and Consular to beat up on the enemies easily while the Smuggler kept me at full health. It's a team-work game, and from conversation afterwords it is very easy to have crazy amounts of fun in any role. Action was fast and responsive, powers are cool visuals to watch, and darn it, it never got old leaping 30 feet and slashing down at an enemy (Siegel, Newsarama)
It was fun, it was tough, it took team work and individual play; it was everything you want out of an RPG, and you were playing side-by-side with actual people (Siegel, Newsarama)
Other than these gripes, the game played extraordinarily well. There were a lot of really interesting abilities I barely had the opportunity to explore, and the group dynamic was great, even with half my group being complete strangers (Newman, PikiGeek)
[the fighting] feels good. It’s not groundbreaking MMO combat, but it sure plays well. It’s fast paced. It actually plays a lot like Knights of the Old Republic. It may not change a whole lot, but it changed enough to make it noticeable and have it be enjoyable to play (Bedivere, Fronttowardsgamer)
All classes had crowd control capabilities as well as buttons to recover quickly in between combat sessions, several ways to damage enemies, and more (Buckland, AtomicGamer)
I mentioned earlier I felt right at home here, which is because the combat is very WoW-like. You know, that standard MMO battling that we’ve all come to know and love throughout the Everquest and World of Warcraft years of domination. Not that it wasn’t fun and exciting, mind you, but it was standard. I honestly don’t think this is where The Old Republic will shine or stand out in any way, other than the fact that you’re swinging around lightsabers and such. I have to admit, that’s pretty cool! (Chad, Dualshockers)
With that said gameplay felt good. Real good. Don't fear not having an auto attack the specials chain together very nicely. It's a little different, not a lot different. (Hardradi)
combat was fluid, responsive and fast paced. There was no auto attack and that seemed to make the combat more immersive for me. All my attack sounds seem to fit their attack. I thought I noticed the music score changing to become more ominous when we got close to the boss near the end of the fight (Hardradi)
The gameplay was incredibly fluid thru this part. As a side note, I was amazed at how much crowd control that we had at our disposal. (Hengist)
Combat feels pretty satisfying, the abilities have great animations, and so do the enemies when they are taking damage.(ErnieVega)
The pace of combat is fast, and you have a lot of things going on all at once. I was more concentrated on my bar, trying to remember what abilities did what, then the actual fights. You get swamped with mobs in many of the encounters and so trying to pick them up, and maintain aggro is a little hard. (Engrey)
UK Community Event 2011
Combat dynamics were quite similar to wow in some ways, but its early level content so I'm sure with progress through the game the differences will become apparent. However, you do feel the sense of an 'epic fight' right from the get go as the developers have spoken about, whereby you're fighting 3-5 mobs at a time. A feature you certainly don't experience in wow in the origin phases of the game (rapidity)
Gameplay wise, everything felt really smooth, I was pleased by the character movement, jumping was fine (if a little clunky) rolling to cover looked nice (even if it felt a bit unwieldy sometimes) and combat felt pretty good, this is important, I always felt that once NGE came in combat in SWG was really 'light' feeling, here there's meaty effects, you really feel like you're shooting something and making it die/explode, it just felt right (Saigo)
the combat was smooth and satisfying. I had my doubts before playing as to whether or not bioware could pull off saber combat that is true to the star wars universe, but they proved unfounded. it works really well (wintersweater)
Overall the combat was incredibly responsive, I really could not tell I was playing with 200ms, the only moments of lag were when the 1k ms spikes came, honestly I can tell in WoW when I have 200ms, and this game felt way, way more responsive at 200ms then WoW ever did. My attacks linked really well and I had a blast, the combat was reasonably difficult aswell... I also want to say that I would be happy with rerolling alts all the time for this game, but I did want to state my raid experience [extensive WoW raider in a Top 10 in the World guild] earlier so hopefully you can feel "something" when I say that the combat was really fun and responsive, even at an early level (Kandycane)
It wasn't complex combat by any means, but it was more interesting than half the classes of WoW at max level, the cover mechanic really adds a big dynamic to the fight and I can only imagine what it will be like when you throw companions and advanced classes into the mix (Kandycane)
One of the buttons came up with a message "Your target does not have a target". So I guess there is a way of selecting your target's target - very handy (MEHColeman)
I came accross 3 types of mobs while I played. "Normal", "Strong" & "ELITE". Normal mobs go down very quickly, 3-4 shots each mobs. Strong mobs are a little tougher. you can manage 2 of these bad boys but you will need to use cover and maybe a medpack for any more than that... You really need to highlight each mob before you fight anyone. you need to check if they are normal, strong or elites as each fight is unique. you cant just go running in guns firing or your dead. you have to treat each fight as a unique encounter. At level 3, having to do this is awesome and shows you need brains to play (PugNoobie)
The combat was fun, and I mean FUN. The attacks and blocks seemed flawlessly choreographed, for instance the mob would recoil when hit and the combat seemed alot more significant (Vixone)
There were some fairly challenging encounters on Korriban, more challenging than I'd typically expect during the starting levels of an MMO. I had a few "oh crap, oh crap" moments in fights where my HP was dangerously close to zero. This was a nice surprise, given that most MMO's from WoW onwards have made things overly easy for the solo player in my opinion (Helderash)
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I had not seen those videos - so thanks for sharing, although they didn't shed to much light on my subject matter. Graphics look awesome, Story progression, innovation, quests. It all looks shweet. And I don't mind "WoW" style combat system, althogh it would be nice from some major over hauls. EQ did the best job IMO of cambat simply - looking - awesome, flashy spells, visable buffs, amazing melee feats. Actually looked like stuff was happening. Thanks for the Article post from Europe, that shed some light
Im not sure why its so shocking that the combat in SW;TOR isnt the main focus of the game.. its been highly advertised since details first started coming out... the focus is on storyline, and the players choices. for examples on how Bioware treat combat in games, check out their dragon age and mass effect games, though mass effect had some elements of a fps, the combat was largely special attacks based... its not something that they excel at.. but .. its often 'good enough'
Hmm so where is the negative player base then? You just grabed the "fan" based coments :P
It's still target cambat what so ever, i would like to have a combat system like Star Wars Jedi Knight 2, and i thought that they would have it in this game, but nooo, they stick to targeting AGAIN... Cmon, its almost year 3000 now hehe ;P
Realize Realeyes Reallies
I trust them, that, regaurdless of whatever this will still be amazing, I just want to see that flashy fighting at late levels
? 'some elements of an fps'? Have you really played the ME games? Well, I guess opinions are very subjective, while I played them it felt every bit like a TPS only with special attacks added to the combat gameplay.
If you had said 'some elements of a fps' about a TR, I might have agreed, but not in this case.
I grabbed the post from elsewhere, but iirc from every review or impressions report I read for every negative comment made about the combat I found 8-9 that were happy or at least positive about the combat. I'm pretty sure though that everyone who favors shooter based combat or aim based combat or who has grown to despise typical MMO combat mechanics will not enjoy SWTOR combat very much.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
agreed.. i should have said third person, rather than fps.. though, these days the division between the 2 is becoming less clear.. just about all games do the over the shoulder thing these days..
Even if you had said third person shooter, my arguments I posted would still have been the same
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
How right you are, i'm sure you'll get the typical fanboi response you didn't watch teh right video or the newest, well sad to say this, the newest videos not only show how boring this game is, it has evidence as well, watch the GCD it's a joke.
Prepare for 1, 1, 1, ,1, 1, oh wait 2, whew!!! man that was exciting, ok back to 1, 1, 1, 1,
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
What's really sad is that you think everyone else should like what you like. Should I eat the same food as you eat as well?
I think part of the problem are the animations. Make some better idle combat animations, some dodge ones, and some hit ones, smooth all of them out, and I think the combat would look a lot better.
If I wanted a twitchy FPS I'd buy one. But i'm not interested in games where everything depends on how fast you can move your thumb. Thanks but no thanks.
I don't think there have been any claims/evidence/reports that fighting in this game is anything but your standard MMO system.
If you REALLY, REALLY can't stand that... then this probably isn't that game for you.
Probably the same thing he said before. Fighting looks like it will be rather boring. The graphics may look good, the animations may be really nice, but the combat gameplay could be quite boring. Maybe not as boring as the droid in these vids, but boring nonetheless. He's referring to gameplay, not graphics or animations. Leaping to close the gap for melee chars may be animated nicely, but in gameplay he just pressed 1.
The OP probably thinks the combat will pretty much play like some unnamed highly popular MMO, even if the setting is totally different. If there is anything in those videos to indicate otherwise, then I must have missed it. Nobody is saying that's a bad thing either, since that way of playing seems to still be immensly popular, just that for people looking for something different in that respect it looks like the same ol'.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
Strangely enough, while I have watched and played combat in dozens of games, I have never found watching combat to be fun. To me combat ALWAYS looks boring until I actually get into it myself. I think it may be an investment thing. Since I am not the one playing, then I can't get into it. But once I am the one playing it is a blast. Anyways, just a thought.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Err... until you've actually logged into the game and played it, it seems that you're "judging the book by it's cover". For all we know, it's an insanely intense clickfest. Or maybe the people recording the videos just aren't very skilled at making compelling videos.
I'm hopeful.
I always expected pretty much most of the games mechanics to resemble KOTOR & it looks like combat basically follows suit.