I think one of the problems with the combat is that we have seen SW games already that have pretty awesome action oriented combat ("Force Unleashed"). We have also seen the pretty awesome CGI trailers for SWTOR and the combat doesn't do it much justice
BTW GW2 and TOR not the same genre??
No, they are not. Most people lump them into "MMO". But people who play WOW or EQ won't neccessarily play SWG or COH. Some people don't want to be super heroes, or play in a Sci-Fi world. I personally have had too much of elves, warriors and mages. After 5+ fantasy MMOs per "other genre" MMO, I'm not interested in playing fantasy/magic.
Think of MMOs like a book. The people who like Jerry Pournelle won't neccessarily read Tolkien.
"It's an MMO and in the same genre" is a really narrow mindset. People played SWG who never touched WOW. People will play TOR who will never want to play GW. It's different publics. You'll have people who love the Star Wars universe playing; they aren't GW2 public, neccessarily.
I think the biggest problem is that people tend to foist off their own mindset onto the "masses". Even I have - and it's a bad, bad assumption. People are different. "Everyone is looking for something different" is a sweeping statement, usually followed by "TOR is the same old, same old".
I think it's a load of crock. People are looking for something different than WOW. It just doesn't have to be different gameplay. It's a different setting, new areas to explore, but they want the same general interface and basic system. Even if TOR is "WOW in space", it may do well - people might just want a change. None of us can say at this point, but I think that the pre-orders are a good sign that BW might have done their market research a bit better than a poster on a forum. In time, we will see.
I think the biggest problem is that people tend to foist off their own mindset onto the "masses". Even I have - and it's a bad, bad assumption. People are different. "Everyone is looking for something different" is a sweeping statement, usually followed by "TOR is the same old, same old".
I think it's a load of crock. People are looking for something different than WOW. It just doesn't have to be different gameplay. It's a different setting, new areas to explore, but they want the same general interface and basic system. Even if TOR is "WOW in space", it may do well - people might just want a change. None of us can say at this point, but I think that the pre-orders are a good sign that BW might have done their market research a bit better than a poster on a forum. In time, we will see.
Very well said and I agree.
Espeically the comment about thinking one's own mindset speaks for the masses. Too much of that on these sites.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To be quite frank the combat in the gameplay footage does indeed look quite stale. I'll reserve judgement until i have my character on my monitor in front of me at launch and am actually experiencing it though. So many times I've youtube'd games and thought "nah" then been talked into trying them and ending up enjoying the combat. Watching someone else play a game never really lets you know how it will 'feel' when you are behind the wheel, so to speak.
I think it's totally subjective..I've played a lot of MMOs and I find the video footage of combat in SWTOR to look extremely exciting compared to an MMO standard. It has reactive animations and animation layers/additive layers that add to fluidity of it all. You commented there's nothing flashy like in EQ - have you seriously looked at the sith inquisitor, bounty hunter and trooper progression videos? They are full of flash.
I do like BioWare games too, still IMHO they are not going in the right direction for an MMO.
The game is too much on rails, graphics aren't really good, VO story will get old fast, speaking companions will tend to be boring in the end, "pets" are too much mandatory for solo play, crafting will be a luck game, ranged combat feels weird and finally way too many features are lacking for an AAA MMO game.
For a single player game it's fine, but for an MMO with (supposition) a monthly fee, not sure.
BWT do you really think that much people would have pre-ordered a MMO, especially made by BioWare, a new comer in the genre, without knowing the monthly fees or presence of RMT would it not be written SW on th box?
I seriously doubt it.
Wait you like Bioware games but their style of game will get old fast? That simply makes no sense, if you don''t like the presentation Bioware uses (grows old on you) why do you like Bioware games?
Second no Bioware is not going in the wrong direction for an MMO, they're going in the wrong direction in relation to your gaming preference that is not the same thing.
Third It might not be as hot of a product if it wasn't SW, that doesn't mean it would not still be a hot topic, as well as a top tier seller.
A MMO is played for 5+ years, play any BioWare game for 20+ time in that amount of time and tell me you aren't bored with the VO and the speaking companions, because it's is what MMO players do: repeat content again and again.
Doesn't work for MMOs.
Are... are you serious? They aren't creating a finished game. New content, weapons, planets, enemies, companions, objectives, abilities, powersets, classes, etc. will be added to the game as it progresses. Of course a finished game like Mass Effect won't work for an MMO... it's not one and won't get updated the same way an MMO is. Luckily, SWTOR is an MMO.
I think one of the problems with the combat is that we have seen SW games already that have pretty awesome action oriented combat ("Force Unleashed"). We have also seen the pretty awesome CGI trailers for SWTOR and the combat doesn't do it much justice
BTW GW2 and TOR not the same genre??
No, they are not. Most people lump them into "MMO". But people who play WOW or EQ won't neccessarily play SWG or COH. Some people don't want to be super heroes, or play in a Sci-Fi world. I personally have had too much of elves, warriors and mages. After 5+ fantasy MMOs per "other genre" MMO, I'm not interested in playing fantasy/magic.
Think of MMOs like a book. The people who like Jerry Pournelle won't neccessarily read Tolkien.
"It's an MMO and in the same genre" is a really narrow mindset. People played SWG who never touched WOW. People will play TOR who will never want to play GW. It's different publics. You'll have people who love the Star Wars universe playing; they aren't GW2 public, neccessarily.
I think the biggest problem is that people tend to foist off their own mindset onto the "masses". Even I have - and it's a bad, bad assumption. People are different. "Everyone is looking for something different" is a sweeping statement, usually followed by "TOR is the same old, same old".
I think it's a load of crock. People are looking for something different than WOW. It just doesn't have to be different gameplay. It's a different setting, new areas to explore, but they want the same general interface and basic system. Even if TOR is "WOW in space", it may do well - people might just want a change. None of us can say at this point, but I think that the pre-orders are a good sign that BW might have done their market research a bit better than a poster on a forum. In time, we will see.
ok...if you want to subdivide MMO's with such vigor and passion its fine by me. Its like RPG and JRPG, which I get. Still they are all MMO's and if we get into this game of subdivision we can go too far and get lost in trivial stuff. They are all apples from the same tree, just that some are sweeter than others
I've watched trailers, game play videos, class explination videos, dungeon trailers, etc. I like to think i've watched a majority of whats out there. And as much as I love SWTOR (getting $150 collecters), the fighting seems rather boring, drawl, simply put, boring. Now, this is only my Opinion from videos - that to my knowledge are all early level videos, but there doesn't seem to be much going on
The ranged fighters are just standing back and blasting, there isn't any huge blast, or rain of bombs, there isn't much of anything. the melee is just standing there swinging their lightsaber (which is badass). It all looks fun, but, there just isn't a lot going on. I really hope this is just low level fighting. Granted all our expecations are through the roof, but when it comes down to aspects being better than other aspects, game play should be really flashy and look badass, at this point.
PLays like an MMO dude, if you mess with that (say FPS style combat) you will hear more complaints than ever.
I am sorry, the alcohol reference was in regards to a real life scenario, not the game. I am sorry if you found that confusing, but I was only trying to draw a parallel. My point was simply that making the decision making processes in the game more "realistic" to what we would have in real life will create greater immersion. Either you go along with the group, try to convince them to do it your way, or break away from the group. Each is a choice with it's own consequences, just like in real life and that helps the immersion (for me at least).
Ok, I can see where you're coming from. If that sets you on a road towards a few dark side points if you didn't want those, then tough. In 'real life' there would of course be other options available that the game does not offer, but ok it's a game.
I'm slightly worried that this might lead to people generally shying away from grouping. I don't think we've all been waiting for a single player game with a subscription. So I hope these 'personal' quests will be clearly marked and not make up the majority of quests in the game.
From everything I have read the personal quests are CLEARLY marked that way, so I don't think it will be much of a problem. Even in the group quests though, it is your choices that determine if you get lightside or darkside points, not the decision that the "group" made. I admit to only guessing at this next part, but it is logical that if you choose to "save the captain" and he later gives a mission, but the group choose to kill him, then your choice will most likely allow you to still interact with him later, while anyone choosing to kill him would not be able too.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
They have not done anything special in regards to the abilities and fighting, it's very much MMO 101 in that regard, but that does not mean it's a bad thing. I'll wait the play the game to judge it as a whole.
They have not done anything special in regards to the abilities and fighting, it's very much MMO 101 in that regard, but that does not mean it's a bad thing. I'll wait the play the game to judge it as a whole.
I think that's only half the issue. The other half is that the animators just aren't very good. It's all just way too basic, and doesn't look especially creative or dynamic. Either issue wouldn't be a big deal on its own, but both combined might put a lot of people off, if they don't polish it up ASAP.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
They have not done anything special in regards to the abilities and fighting, it's very much MMO 101 in that regard, but that does not mean it's a bad thing. I'll wait the play the game to judge it as a whole.
I think that's only half the issue. The other half is that the animators just aren't very good. It's all just way too basic, and doesn't look especially creative or dynamic. Either issue wouldn't be a big deal on its own, but both combined might put a lot of people off, if they don't polish it up ASAP.
Compared to what? What mmo's have better animations?
From what I have seen SWTOR has some of the best animations I have seen in an mmo.
They have not done anything special in regards to the abilities and fighting, it's very much MMO 101 in that regard, but that does not mean it's a bad thing. I'll wait the play the game to judge it as a whole.
I think that's only half the issue. The other half is that the animators just aren't very good. It's all just way too basic, and doesn't look especially creative or dynamic. Either issue wouldn't be a big deal on its own, but both combined might put a lot of people off, if they don't polish it up ASAP.
Compared to what? What mmo's have better animations?
From what I have seen SWTOR has some of the best animations I have seen in an mmo.
I'm afraid of getting sucked into specific comparisons, because of course, right off, you'll get people saying, "nah-ah, I hate the animations in that game!"
When I watch that video though, it's difficult to put my finger on exactly what's missing. I mean, sure, from a technical standpoint, the animations are there, and the seem fancy enough.. but, no, there is something missing. Maybe a few things. Maybe it's a lack of punch, or emphasis on the moment the animation makes contact with the opponent. Maybe it's not the big attack animation, but the idles and (lack of) auto-attacks in between that seem too static. Maybe it looks fine, if you focus on the part of the body making the attack, but it's more of a lack of animation in the rest of the body, in some cases. Like when firing a gun, you might look at the gun arm and think it looks great, but what the other arm is doing can be just as important, and how the character is standing, from their foot position, up the spine, even including head position. Things like that bring an animation to life.
Obvious example to use for comparison would be GW2, but even looking at MMOs from Aion to AoC (taking into account that they're more dated now) I think animations were done better in some ways. One could argue that TOR's animations are "good enough" but I think the bar is higher these days, and there's some serious competition looming. If they really expect to be the huge success that I think they do, I don't think "good enough" is going to cut it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I don't understand how anyone without trying out the combat can comment on how bad it would play and how boring it will be.
Please read some of the posts by those that actually had the chance to play it during the expos. If you read the first hand experiences you will be told that the combat was fun and exciting, that they actually had to pay attention and used up all the skills in their posession.
Only those that had the chance to play it and experience it can really tell you whether or not its boring.
I am not stating that I played it, I am conserving my judgement till the game goes live, the preorder arrives and I log in and starting blasting and slicing then I can be sure of what those other posters said.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
When I watch that video though, it's difficult to put my finger on exactly what's missing. I mean, sure, from a technical standpoint, the animations are there, and the seem fancy enough.. but, no, there is something missing.
I think I know what you're referring to, I think it's a combination of personal taste and the overall sense of fluidity and 'naturalness' of the animation. In some ways it feels 'off'.
I'm not that thrilled about the current animations myself, but I do acknowledge that they have been getting better and better.
Besides, I'm not that thrilled about the animation in MMO's like LotrO, WAR and Rift either, I think that SWTOR's current animation is better than those.
I think that of the current MMO's Aion and after that AoC (bc of the combat animations ) have the best character animations for the moment.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Whatever your feelings about the game it is important for you TOR supporters to understand that early box sales and pre orders are totally meaningless in mmorpgs.
It's the smoothness of the animations and how they combine with the rest of it. The animations themselves are fine (running and shooting aside) but it all feels very stiff and robotic. They just don't look as natural as in other games.
Current games I'd have to say that AoC has the best animations that I've seen in an mmo. They use motion capture with all of their stuff, I'm not sure what SWTOR used.
Again Swtor tries to stay true to KOTOR. Combats tend to be choreographed but Devs have to take into account the mobility of mmos gameplay. The issue is visuals vs gameplay
Excellent, thank you for bringing this up (I totally forgot about it).
Is the impale move actually an ability, or an elaborate death animation?
Ability. These kinds of abilities have multiple segments, each of which can hit or miss (which may give the target a window to escape...). That said, some of these abilities can be upgraded to root or stun, or the player can use other abilities before hand to set up the kill and make sure the target is not going anywhere.
The whole system is rather complex and we've spend significant amounts of resources and time to balance visuals and gameplay - we don't want to lock the player in place or stop them from moving, but we do want the choreographed combat / blaster bolt deflection / over the top abilities. Naturally, there are situations where we have to trade off the visuals for the player's ability to act smoothly and freely - but most of the time, there's ways to make both work that play well - at least our testers are pretty positive about it so far.
No other MMO has done something like this, so I can understand it's confusing / hard to understand.
"Tanking is like mathematics...healing is like an art" Kimi (ex TOROcast Member)
If there's something i learned from past experiences is that don't judge a book by its cover.
I remember this game i hyped myself and i was looking so much forward to it, the gameplay looked so much fun for a click and wait mmo. I played the game and crap i was so disspaointed i wanted to cry for waiting for the game for 2 years. It turns out that you didn't get to have any fun in the game until endgame levels and the game was full of grind so it would take you months even years to get to endgame levels. There was no way i was going to go through the boring earlygame to get there.
A lot of MMORPGS end up like that these days, it's all grind and nothing fun ever happens until later levels. It seems that with SWTOR the action starts right away. But i haven't played it so i have no idea if it's going to be fun or not.
It's the smoothness of the animations and how they combine with the rest of it. The animations themselves are fine (running and shooting aside) but it all feels very stiff and robotic. They just don't look as natural as in other games.
Current games I'd have to say that AoC has the best animations that I've seen in an mmo. They use motion capture with all of their stuff, I'm not sure what SWTOR used.
[mod edit] BioWare used a heck of a lot of motion capture for most of their animations. If you had done ANY research, you would know that. I think they may have actually used too much personally since the moves now actually look very similar to what people would REALLY look like if they tried this stuff. If you want a source, go watch the videos on the swtor.com website.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Indeed, and that means you can't truly judge it until you play it. Honestly, if I'd only decided on whether I'd try WoW based on the videos of its combat, I would've never played it. With most MMOs, combat is more fun and fast-paced when you're playing it. The latest "Call to Arms" trailer or whatever showed a massive PvP (assumingly) battle near the end, and that was pretty exciting. Then the only downside was the unpolished animations, but you could tell even those had improved from earlier showings.
Comments
No, they are not. Most people lump them into "MMO". But people who play WOW or EQ won't neccessarily play SWG or COH. Some people don't want to be super heroes, or play in a Sci-Fi world. I personally have had too much of elves, warriors and mages. After 5+ fantasy MMOs per "other genre" MMO, I'm not interested in playing fantasy/magic.
Think of MMOs like a book. The people who like Jerry Pournelle won't neccessarily read Tolkien.
"It's an MMO and in the same genre" is a really narrow mindset. People played SWG who never touched WOW. People will play TOR who will never want to play GW. It's different publics. You'll have people who love the Star Wars universe playing; they aren't GW2 public, neccessarily.
I think the biggest problem is that people tend to foist off their own mindset onto the "masses". Even I have - and it's a bad, bad assumption. People are different. "Everyone is looking for something different" is a sweeping statement, usually followed by "TOR is the same old, same old".
I think it's a load of crock. People are looking for something different than WOW. It just doesn't have to be different gameplay. It's a different setting, new areas to explore, but they want the same general interface and basic system. Even if TOR is "WOW in space", it may do well - people might just want a change. None of us can say at this point, but I think that the pre-orders are a good sign that BW might have done their market research a bit better than a poster on a forum. In time, we will see.
Very well said and I agree.
Espeically the comment about thinking one's own mindset speaks for the masses. Too much of that on these sites.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
To be quite frank the combat in the gameplay footage does indeed look quite stale. I'll reserve judgement until i have my character on my monitor in front of me at launch and am actually experiencing it though. So many times I've youtube'd games and thought "nah" then been talked into trying them and ending up enjoying the combat. Watching someone else play a game never really lets you know how it will 'feel' when you are behind the wheel, so to speak.
I think it's totally subjective..I've played a lot of MMOs and I find the video footage of combat in SWTOR to look extremely exciting compared to an MMO standard. It has reactive animations and animation layers/additive layers that add to fluidity of it all. You commented there's nothing flashy like in EQ - have you seriously looked at the sith inquisitor, bounty hunter and trooper progression videos? They are full of flash.
Are... are you serious? They aren't creating a finished game. New content, weapons, planets, enemies, companions, objectives, abilities, powersets, classes, etc. will be added to the game as it progresses. Of course a finished game like Mass Effect won't work for an MMO... it's not one and won't get updated the same way an MMO is. Luckily, SWTOR is an MMO.
ok...if you want to subdivide MMO's with such vigor and passion its fine by me. Its like RPG and JRPG, which I get. Still they are all MMO's and if we get into this game of subdivision we can go too far and get lost in trivial stuff. They are all apples from the same tree, just that some are sweeter than others
PLays like an MMO dude, if you mess with that (say FPS style combat) you will hear more complaints than ever.
From everything I have read the personal quests are CLEARLY marked that way, so I don't think it will be much of a problem. Even in the group quests though, it is your choices that determine if you get lightside or darkside points, not the decision that the "group" made. I admit to only guessing at this next part, but it is logical that if you choose to "save the captain" and he later gives a mission, but the group choose to kill him, then your choice will most likely allow you to still interact with him later, while anyone choosing to kill him would not be able too.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
They have not done anything special in regards to the abilities and fighting, it's very much MMO 101 in that regard, but that does not mean it's a bad thing. I'll wait the play the game to judge it as a whole.
I think that's only half the issue. The other half is that the animators just aren't very good. It's all just way too basic, and doesn't look especially creative or dynamic. Either issue wouldn't be a big deal on its own, but both combined might put a lot of people off, if they don't polish it up ASAP.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Compared to what? What mmo's have better animations?
From what I have seen SWTOR has some of the best animations I have seen in an mmo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ayNgd_60qw
ugh, I'm sick of all this speculating! I at least want a release date!
Beta weekends are less than a month away.
The release date will probably be October-November unless something goes drastically wrong.
I'm afraid of getting sucked into specific comparisons, because of course, right off, you'll get people saying, "nah-ah, I hate the animations in that game!"
When I watch that video though, it's difficult to put my finger on exactly what's missing. I mean, sure, from a technical standpoint, the animations are there, and the seem fancy enough.. but, no, there is something missing. Maybe a few things. Maybe it's a lack of punch, or emphasis on the moment the animation makes contact with the opponent. Maybe it's not the big attack animation, but the idles and (lack of) auto-attacks in between that seem too static. Maybe it looks fine, if you focus on the part of the body making the attack, but it's more of a lack of animation in the rest of the body, in some cases. Like when firing a gun, you might look at the gun arm and think it looks great, but what the other arm is doing can be just as important, and how the character is standing, from their foot position, up the spine, even including head position. Things like that bring an animation to life.
Obvious example to use for comparison would be GW2, but even looking at MMOs from Aion to AoC (taking into account that they're more dated now) I think animations were done better in some ways. One could argue that TOR's animations are "good enough" but I think the bar is higher these days, and there's some serious competition looming. If they really expect to be the huge success that I think they do, I don't think "good enough" is going to cut it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I don't understand how anyone without trying out the combat can comment on how bad it would play and how boring it will be.
Please read some of the posts by those that actually had the chance to play it during the expos. If you read the first hand experiences you will be told that the combat was fun and exciting, that they actually had to pay attention and used up all the skills in their posession.
Only those that had the chance to play it and experience it can really tell you whether or not its boring.
I am not stating that I played it, I am conserving my judgement till the game goes live, the preorder arrives and I log in and starting blasting and slicing then I can be sure of what those other posters said.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I think I know what you're referring to, I think it's a combination of personal taste and the overall sense of fluidity and 'naturalness' of the animation. In some ways it feels 'off'.
I'm not that thrilled about the current animations myself, but I do acknowledge that they have been getting better and better.
Besides, I'm not that thrilled about the animation in MMO's like LotrO, WAR and Rift either, I think that SWTOR's current animation is better than those.
I think that of the current MMO's Aion and after that AoC (bc of the combat animations
) have the best character animations for the moment.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Whatever your feelings about the game it is important for you TOR supporters to understand that early box sales and pre orders are totally meaningless in mmorpgs.
It's the smoothness of the animations and how they combine with the rest of it. The animations themselves are fine (running and shooting aside) but it all feels very stiff and robotic. They just don't look as natural as in other games.
Current games I'd have to say that AoC has the best animations that I've seen in an mmo. They use motion capture with all of their stuff, I'm not sure what SWTOR used.
Again Swtor tries to stay true to KOTOR. Combats tend to be choreographed but Devs have to take into account the mobility of mmos gameplay. The issue is visuals vs gameplay
GeorgZoeller
Joined: May 2010
05.31.2011 , 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raesha
Excellent, thank you for bringing this up (I totally forgot about it).
Is the impale move actually an ability, or an elaborate death animation?
Ability. These kinds of abilities have multiple segments, each of which can hit or miss (which may give the target a window to escape...). That said, some of these abilities can be upgraded to root or stun, or the player can use other abilities before hand to set up the kill and make sure the target is not going anywhere.
The whole system is rather complex and we've spend significant amounts of resources and time to balance visuals and gameplay - we don't want to lock the player in place or stop them from moving, but we do want the choreographed combat / blaster bolt deflection / over the top abilities. Naturally, there are situations where we have to trade off the visuals for the player's ability to act smoothly and freely - but most of the time, there's ways to make both work that play well - at least our testers are pretty positive about it so far.
No other MMO has done something like this, so I can understand it's confusing / hard to understand.
"Tanking is like mathematics...healing is like an art" Kimi (ex TOROcast Member)
Reserve judgements until you play the game.
If there's something i learned from past experiences is that don't judge a book by its cover.
I remember this game i hyped myself and i was looking so much forward to it, the gameplay looked so much fun for a click and wait mmo. I played the game and crap i was so disspaointed i wanted to cry for waiting for the game for 2 years. It turns out that you didn't get to have any fun in the game until endgame levels and the game was full of grind so it would take you months even years to get to endgame levels. There was no way i was going to go through the boring earlygame to get there.
A lot of MMORPGS end up like that these days, it's all grind and nothing fun ever happens until later levels. It seems that with SWTOR the action starts right away. But i haven't played it so i have no idea if it's going to be fun or not.
[mod edit] BioWare used a heck of a lot of motion capture for most of their animations. If you had done ANY research, you would know that. I think they may have actually used too much personally since the moves now actually look very similar to what people would REALLY look like if they tried this stuff. If you want a source, go watch the videos on the swtor.com website.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
The combat is WoW in space. Trust me on that one.
Yeah, I know right? WoW has classes, hotbars, health, and cooldowns, all of which WoW invented. Any game that uses these is just ripping off WoW.
Indeed, and that means you can't truly judge it until you play it. Honestly, if I'd only decided on whether I'd try WoW based on the videos of its combat, I would've never played it. With most MMOs, combat is more fun and fast-paced when you're playing it. The latest "Call to Arms" trailer or whatever showed a massive PvP (assumingly) battle near the end, and that was pretty exciting. Then the only downside was the unpolished animations, but you could tell even those had improved from earlier showings.
Sorry not trusting you at all since i got a chance to play SWTOR in gaming conventions, if anything it is more closer to COX combat.