This RMT auction house will allow you to buy a full set of gear without ever fighting a mob. If you think that's great or don't care then more power to you. I hope the game provides the entertainment your money can buy, however there's no argument that's going to make me see the 'light'.
I think we should legalize cocaine. We can't prevent it. There will always be people buying it from shady dealers that employ third world peasants to pack and distribute it.
Since we can't beat it and people are going to buy it anyway. Why not profit from it. It's a win win
Let's not start the "Well RMT is here to stay arguments". So is genital herpes. It doesn't mean It's a good thing and we should all get with the program
Now you're being ridiculous, last i checked RMT doesn't send people to the hospital.
The point was since you missed it
Just because something exist and you can't eliminate it. Doesn't make it a good idea to legalize and profit from it, when It clearly was a bad idea, back when it was illegal.
And before somebody starts the argument how it's a smart business move. Unless you are a shareholder.. I'm going to politely have to tell you to keep your yapper shut.
When did it clearly become a bad idea? Ah i see because you say its a bad idea.
basically as i see it there are 2 types that dislike blizzards AH.
type (A) that state they find fun in killing monsters for loot and though no one forces them to use the AH, They basically admit the game will be ruined for them as they are too weak willed just ignore the AH and will wind up using it.
type (B) those that have to have better equiepment then the majority for some Elitist sense of accomplishment or Superiority. Though these players may only play solo, or with friends/guild members that never use the AH, the fact Joe blow they may never run into can buy the same sword they did 100 boss runs to get ruins the game for them, As their luck of the loot drop or simply insane amount of time to spend no longer makes them Elite.
Any PvP'er that states equipe makes them the best once again boils it down to not skill at pvp, but simply luck of the loot drop roll or mass amount of time to waste. As such perhaps perhaps they are better off ranting in a PvP game like Darkfall.
In the end of the day I'lll buy D3 hopefully it will be a fun game to play, monsters, loot, excitement etc. i doubt i'll use the AH to buy anything as i'd rather just get it the old fashioned way. i don't feel threatened or forced by a Ah button. Nore do i feel that my accomplishments are less if unknown player X has better items then i that they got off the Ah. In fact if they buy some monk gear thats useless to my barbarian from me all the better.
I do understand not everyone plays the same way. I like getting items the old fashion way, others may well want to buy the uber items to kill monsters faster and feel more special. <shrug> if D3's system works for both play styles all the better. I'm not like some here, saying theres only one right way to play the game ie "My way" and that all other ways are clearly bad ideas. I play for fun not to force my play style on others. Since nothing forces the AH on anyone and since it takes the power away from the Illegal gold seller gouging the players and puts it in the hands of the average player that would generally be happy to sell items for a few bucks to make up for the cost of the game rather then the Illegals trying make a living off of it I consider it a Win / Win
These auctions are most definitely a bad idea. The kind of reasoning that says "Well, people do it anyway, but now they'll do it legally!" is just about as stupid as legalizing drugs in real world sports and claiming the problem of cheating among athletes is miraculously solved. It's plain daft.
Paying to win should be looked down upon, laughed at and ridiculed. People that partake in it should be shamed and should feel undeserving of their victories, much like people that use actual hacks and cheats to win. Any kind of development such as this one that endorses paying to win will deteriorate the spirit of skill competitive gaming until its no longer a duel of skill and talent but a duel of wallets, much like what the real world is.
Anyone can be a singer these days; With enough money and the suitable contacts anyone, regardless of their talent or the quality of their voice can bawl into a microphone and someone else will make it sound good. Likewise anyone with enough money and contacts can become a politician; You don't need to have good ideas or follow any particular ideologies, you just need deep pockets. Pay someone to write your speeches, pay someone else to think of ideas, pay someone to research dirt on your competitors, toss money left and right and you'll soon go straight for presidency.
We live in a world where money rules, so it's perhaps vain to think it could ever be kept out of gaming, but it's still a shame watching it go this way. It used to be so innocent, y'know; It was all about entertainment through challenging yourself, but now it's all about winning.
Don't people understand that the sweet taste of victory is so much more savoury when they have to fight for it? A bought victory is just bland and tasteless by comparison.
So she claims it won't be as much as expected (does she even know what people expect?) then you write that you don't have the foggiest clue as to what it will be. Is it just me or does that seem extra dumb. I would like to add that auction sites not affiliated to gaming often charge a small amount for a listing perfectly able to make huge profits that way.
It won't be as much as it could be. Take for instance an item that sells for $500. If Blizz charges a flat $2.00 to list and $5.00 at close of sale (I doubt it will be that much), then they've "made" $7.00.
If Blizz chooses instead to go with a $2.00 listing fee and then charged 10% of the final sale ($50.00), they've made $52.00. Pretty big jump in revenue generation, isn't it?
I never said that they wouldn't make money, even HUGE amounts of it. What I said was that they will make -less- money. The premise I intimated was that Blizzard would make significantly more money if they went the percentage route than they will by charging flat rates.
What about collecting state sales taxes? reporting income? What if by some oddity a lawsuit over a virtual item (wife mad at husband/divorce) comes into play?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
This RMT auction house will allow you to buy a full set of gear without ever fighting a mob. If you think that's great or don't care then more power to you. I hope the game provides the entertainment your money can buy, however there's no argument that's going to make me see the 'light'.
How exactly dose ANOTHERS abilty to buy a" full set of gear" off the Ah affect YOUR game? You understand unless you somehow planed on D3 to be your main PvP game and PUG alot, that you probably won't even run into or play with any of those people.
You do understand D3 isn't a MMO but a instanced game with a lobby. You can play it 100% solo, or just with friends and guild members. If unknown player X buys a magic sword from you for $5 what effect does it really have on your game? If you were planning on playing in every possible open PUG then you would have run into players that bought items anyway only they would have gotten them from the current crop of gold sellers.
Well, ya see, Sukiyaki, the article is intended to take ONE side with you all discussing the OTHER side. That's pretty much the definition of "devil's advocate".
These auctions are most definitely a bad idea. The kind of reasoning that says "Well, people do it anyway, but now they'll do it legally!" is just about as stupid as legalizing drugs in real world sports and claiming the problem of cheating among athletes is miraculously solved. It's plain daft.
Paying to win should be looked down upon, laughed at and ridiculed. People that partake in it should be shamed and should feel undeserving of their victories, much like people that use actual hacks and cheats to win. Any kind of development such as this one that endorses paying to win will deteriorate the spirit of skill competitive gaming until its no longer a duel of skill and talent but a duel of wallets, much like what the real world is.
Anyone can be a singer these days; With enough money and the suitable contacts anyone, regardless of their talent or the quality of their voice can bawl into a microphone and someone else will make it sound good. Likewise anyone with enough money and contacts can become a politician; You don't need to have good ideas or follow any particular ideologies, you just need deep pockets. Pay someone to write your speeches, pay someone else to think of ideas, pay someone to research dirt on your competitors, toss money left and right and you'll soon go straight for presidency.
We live in a world where money rules, so it's perhaps vain to think it could ever be kept out of gaming, but it's still a shame watching it go this way. It used to be so innocent, y'know; It was all about entertainment through challenging yourself, but now it's all about winning.
Don't people understand that the sweet taste of victory is so much more savoury when they have to fight for it? A bought victory is just bland and tasteless by comparison.
You make no sense and in fact i wonder if you ever played a Diablo game. How exactly do you pay to win? This is not a MMO. People will be playing in their own instances with the people they choose to play with. Who are you to judge how others play? Really Who made you judge jury and exacutioner. Are you saying only peoplealot of spare time should be able to play these games to their peek due the the required time investment?
So "Spirit of skill competitive gaming" now means luck of the loot drop roll, and / or number of hours one can spend zerging a boss run? If thats your version of "spirit of skill" then really i feel sorry for you. Seriously did you even think of what you were typing? You c/o of money but your not fighting for any victory your either lucky in a loot roll and get mega item or buy your way spending time not getting better or proving your better just instead doing some boss run till the items drops. Only difference is in the world money rules, in your world you wish spare time (ie retired, no job, no family, no responsibilites but oodles of game time) and Luck rules. Sad just really very sad...
blizzard has never shown me they can keep my battle.net account from being hacked. hell I havent played that game in nearly a year and i keep getting emails about how that account got hacked, wth. how can a inactive account be hacked when I have not even used that account name in a year.
Your account isn't being hacked over and over again, those are "phishing scam" emails, hoping you'll enter your account info on some site that looks like blizzard so they CAN steal your account info.
I get those same emails all the time, and I've never had anyone in my b.net account. And I get them for Runescape as well.... and I've never even played/downloaded/signed up for Runescape stuff. That's why they call it "Phishing" because they are "Fishing" for info.
Silly editor.... can't type outside the quote box....
Players will be able to earn money by playing a video game. Hmm, you'll be able to sell loot from a boss you defeated. All within a regular player driven Auction House.
Let me see ... Diablo on PC, XBOX, PS3 ... Am I the only one getting the idea it will the next big hot thing in 2012?
And why oh why Diablo is not represented on this site?
You talk about, it has quests, levels, rpg, action, dungeons, gear chase, crafting and a real money auction house, even a so much sought after "hardcore mode"...
The OP even talks about guilds and grouping. Explain why LOL is in this list and not Diablo ? Afraid Blizzard has another number one on their hands ? My bet is on Diablo, not on SW TOR btw, PC and Console play combined with real money to go for and free to play...
Diablo could blow everyhting out of the water.
Actually, we ran a poll a couple weeks ago about adding it. We're reworking our games list to be able to include other types of games like Diablo 3 and LoL and others.
Why shouldn't blizzard get in on the profits of reselling their "copyrighted" items? Does Ford or Chevy get in on the reselling of my car? Does Sony/Toshiba/Samsung get in on the reselling of my TV?
These auctions are most definitely a bad idea. The kind of reasoning that says "Well, people do it anyway, but now they'll do it legally!" is just about as stupid as legalizing drugs in real world sports and claiming the problem of cheating among athletes is miraculously solved. It's plain daft.
Paying to win should be looked down upon, laughed at and ridiculed. People that partake in it should be shamed and should feel undeserving of their victories, much like people that use actual hacks and cheats to win. Any kind of development such as this one that endorses paying to win will deteriorate the spirit of skill competitive gaming until its no longer a duel of skill and talent but a duel of wallets, much like what the real world is.
Anyone can be a singer these days; With enough money and the suitable contacts anyone, regardless of their talent or the quality of their voice can bawl into a microphone and someone else will make it sound good. Likewise anyone with enough money and contacts can become a politician; You don't need to have good ideas or follow any particular ideologies, you just need deep pockets. Pay someone to write your speeches, pay someone else to think of ideas, pay someone to research dirt on your competitors, toss money left and right and you'll soon go straight for presidency.
We live in a world where money rules, so it's perhaps vain to think it could ever be kept out of gaming, but it's still a shame watching it go this way. It used to be so innocent, y'know; It was all about entertainment through challenging yourself, but now it's all about winning.
Don't people understand that the sweet taste of victory is so much more savoury when they have to fight for it? A bought victory is just bland and tasteless by comparison.
These auctions are most definitely a bad idea. The kind of reasoning that says "Well, people do it anyway, but now they'll do it legally!" is just about as stupid as legalizing drugs in real world sports and claiming the problem of cheating among athletes is miraculously solved. It's plain daft.
Paying to win should be looked down upon, laughed at and ridiculed. People that partake in it should be shamed and should feel undeserving of their victories, much like people that use actual hacks and cheats to win. Any kind of development such as this one that endorses paying to win will deteriorate the spirit of skill competitive gaming until its no longer a duel of skill and talent but a duel of wallets, much like what the real world is.
Anyone can be a singer these days; With enough money and the suitable contacts anyone, regardless of their talent or the quality of their voice can bawl into a microphone and someone else will make it sound good. Likewise anyone with enough money and contacts can become a politician; You don't need to have good ideas or follow any particular ideologies, you just need deep pockets. Pay someone to write your speeches, pay someone else to think of ideas, pay someone to research dirt on your competitors, toss money left and right and you'll soon go straight for presidency.
We live in a world where money rules, so it's perhaps vain to think it could ever be kept out of gaming, but it's still a shame watching it go this way. It used to be so innocent, y'know; It was all about entertainment through challenging yourself, but now it's all about winning.
Don't people understand that the sweet taste of victory is so much more savoury when they have to fight for it? A bought victory is just bland and tasteless by comparison.
You make no sense and in fact i wonder if you ever played a Diablo game. How exactly do you pay to win? This is not a MMO. People will be playing in their own instances with the people they choose to play with. Who are you to judge how others play? Really Who made you judge jury and exacutioner. Are you saying only peoplealot of spare time should be able to play these games to their peek due the the required time investment?
So "Spirit of skill competitive gaming" now means luck of the loot drop roll, and / or number of hours one can spend zerging a boss run? If thats your version of "spirit of skill" then really i feel sorry for you. Seriously did you even think of what you were typing? You c/o of money but your not fighting for any victory your either lucky in a loot roll and get mega item or buy your way spending time not getting better or proving your better just instead doing some boss run till the items drops. Only difference is in the world money rules, in your world you wish spare time (ie retired, no job, no family, no responsibilites but oodles of game time) and Luck rules. Sad just really very sad...
I believe what he/she was trying to get across is they can correct me if I'm wrong.
Is that what ever happened to playing just for fun. That games are all falling into the same greed that runs the real world. It's the start of a slippery slope.
You must be quite young
The last thing I want is too much of the real world in my game. Mellow out and go watch some reality tv.
Originally posted by SBFord So she claims it won't be as much as expected (does she even know what people expect?) then you write that you don't have the foggiest clue as to what it will be. Is it just me or does that seem extra dumb. I would like to add that auction sites not affiliated to gaming often charge a small amount for a listing perfectly able to make huge profits that way.
It won't be as much as it could be. Take for instance an item that sells for $500. If Blizz charges a flat $2.00 to list and $5.00 at close of sale (I doubt it will be that much), then they've "made" $7.00.
If Blizz chooses instead to go with a $2.00 listing fee and then charged 10% of the final sale ($50.00), they've made $52.00. Pretty big jump in revenue generation, isn't it?
I never said that they wouldn't make money, even HUGE amounts of it. What I said was that they will make -less- money. The premise I intimated was that Blizzard would make significantly more money if they went the percentage route than they will by charging flat rates.
According to the FAQ:
There will be a fixed charge to list an item. If the item sells, there will be an additional fixed charge the seller will pay. The listing portion of the fee will be waived for a limited number of transactions per account.
There will be additional fees, charged both by Blizzard and whatever third party payment processing system you use. There's no mention of the charges being fixed, so my guess would be these charges scaling with the amount of cash you're getting - a percentage.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Its simple for me. I stopped playing single player games that have blatant cash grabs. One of my fav games Dawn Of War has started to do DLC. I am ok with this actually. They provide new content after releasing a COMPLETE game for additional money. On the other hand Dragon Age 2 had DLC on RELEASE DAY and it was blatantly obvious that the content was part of the game during regular design.
It is too bad that the gaming market has turned into this. Makes me wonder that one day I will go to the movies to relax and get half way through and get a pop up box that says if i would like more please insert additional funds.
You make no sense and in fact i wonder if you ever played a Diablo game. How exactly do you pay to win? This is not a MMO. People will be playing in their own instances with the people they choose to play with. Who are you to judge how others play? Really Who made you judge jury and exacutioner. Are you saying only peoplealot of spare time should be able to play these games to their peek due the the required time investment?
So "Spirit of skill competitive gaming" now means luck of the loot drop roll, and / or number of hours one can spend zerging a boss run? If thats your version of "spirit of skill" then really i feel sorry for you. Seriously did you even think of what you were typing? You c/o of money but your not fighting for any victory your either lucky in a loot roll and get mega item or buy your way spending time not getting better or proving your better just instead doing some boss run till the items drops. Only difference is in the world money rules, in your world you wish spare time (ie retired, no job, no family, no responsibilites but oodles of game time) and Luck rules. Sad just really very sad...
I believe what he/she was trying to get across is they can correct me if I'm wrong.
Is that what ever happened to playing just for fun. That games are all falling into the same greed that runs the real world. It's the start of a slippery slope.
You must be quite young
The last thing I want is too much of the real world in my game. Mellow out and go watch some reality tv.
I'm under the assumption most of the posters on this site have just got into online games in the last few years.. greed has always been in online games infact it used to be alot worse before the addition of hackguards and other protection software that devs include now. Cheating has and always will be there, so it isn't just now slipping into it.. it was already a part of the real world. lol the industry is changing, get on board or get off.. your choice.
Actually cheating has been going on since the dawn of time. I play all kinds of games for entertainment when it strikes my fancy and I could really care less on what sucker's want to spend their money on.
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
Man, your posts have a lot of commie accusations in them. The cold war is over-no ones trying to turn the US or MMORPG into communists systems, it's just people oppinions about a choice the game company made.
You make no sense and in fact i wonder if you ever played a Diablo game. How exactly do you pay to win? This is not a MMO. People will be playing in their own instances with the people they choose to play with. Who are you to judge how others play? Really Who made you judge jury and exacutioner. Are you saying only peoplealot of spare time should be able to play these games to their peek due the the required time investment?
So "Spirit of skill competitive gaming" now means luck of the loot drop roll, and / or number of hours one can spend zerging a boss run? If thats your version of "spirit of skill" then really i feel sorry for you. Seriously did you even think of what you were typing? You c/o of money but your not fighting for any victory your either lucky in a loot roll and get mega item or buy your way spending time not getting better or proving your better just instead doing some boss run till the items drops. Only difference is in the world money rules, in your world you wish spare time (ie retired, no job, no family, no responsibilites but oodles of game time) and Luck rules. Sad just really very sad...
I believe what he/she was trying to get across is they can correct me if I'm wrong.
Is that what ever happened to playing just for fun. That games are all falling into the same greed that runs the real world. It's the start of a slippery slope.
You must be quite young
The last thing I want is too much of the real world in my game. Mellow out and go watch some reality tv.
I'm under the assumption most of the posters on this site have just got into online games in the last few years.. greed has always been in online games infact it used to be alot worse before the addition of hackguards and other protection software that devs include now. Cheating has and always will be there, so it isn't just now slipping into it.. it was already a part of the real world. lol the industry is changing, get on board or get off.. your choice.
So in the same paragraph you state that most of the posters on this site are new to online game, and that those same posters aren't getting with the times and need to embrace the changing industry.
Bravo on contradicting yourself. If most posters here were new to online gaming, they would be more accepting of industry changes. That's how things work. The 'oldschool' mentality, where 'change is bad' and 'the old/current way is better' comes from people having a long period of experience... aka, having been around for a while.
And your logic about cheating is flawed. Just because it has existed and will continue to exist despite the best efforts of those trying to combat it, doesn't mean that giving up suddenly makes cheating okay. just because some companies suddenly decide that RMT is okay for them -- because they're suddenly making their own profit out of it -- it does not suddenly make all of the bad things associated to RMT go away.
People's accounts will still be hacked for the cotnents to be sold. People will still bot to easily get items to flood on the market to try to make money. Gold sellers will still agressively spam players with annoying adds. The game economies will suffer from hyper-inflation due to item and currency flooding. And lastly, the spirit of the game will still be tarnished by the 'cheating' that many consider RMT to be.
You're not going to change people's minds about RMT. A lot of people will never accept it, and would rather not play a game with RMT if it came to it. Blizzard is trying to push this idea because they profit, not because it's better for the players or the game itself. That doesn't mean that everyone just has to bend over and take it; there are alternatives to Diablo 3 that look better and better every day.
Well, ya see, Sukiyaki, the article is intended to take ONE side with you all discussing the OTHER side. That's pretty much the definition of "devil's advocate".
Well maybe you should clairify that. You know like put a disclaimer at the top of the article, with text in easy to see italics or something.
Meh. I'm not happy about the RMT auction house, but then I'm not happy about the direction they took D3 at all. It is painfully apperent D3 is aimed at the newer generation of gamers and many of said gamers have no issue with RMT and in fact are quite fond of it. So I'll just take my money elsewhere rather than waste pointless time lamenting what "could" have been.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
Pay to win are your words. I just mentioned cheating. As paying to avoid a challenge but still get the reward. Any PVE is about challenging you as player. Then there are always players who are competing in PVE by showing off uberstatted loot (strangely enough they dont care if you are in the same competition or not:p ) But to them its paying to win.
It might not have directly have an effect on you (you dont have to use it), but it can change future development strategy. Maybe the developer decides to put in the extra timesink as extra incentive for the cashshop or real cash AH. Anything that will generate more transactions.
Also, you cant put a price on 'money grabbing' . The main reason to come up with the real cash auction is to make extra profit. So its just more or less money grabbing. I call it grabbing, because it changes something fundamentally in games. It is not an improvement of the game, but only an improvement of monetizing the game. The whole idea is very hypocrite because it also goes against what any game is about (overcoming challenges) and I dont think that the actual gamedesigners like this development.
I'm generally easy on cash shop run games. As long as things stay reasonable I don't mind. Thing is when you have to pay for the game.(Activision is going to make this at least $60) I expect for there to be no "pay to win". I expect the company that makes the game to level the playing field for everyone and not be part of the problem. Sure in the past people have sold things for rl money but there are ways to police it. Maybe not by 100% but enough to make cheaters nervious. I don't buy any altruism here. It's about money and that's that. This has definitely dampened my enthusiasm for the game. We'll see how I feel once it's released and we see how it really works but for now.. activision.. you suck.
Well, ya see, Sukiyaki, the article is intended to take ONE side with you all discussing the OTHER side. That's pretty much the definition of "devil's advocate".
Well maybe you should clairify that. You know like put a disclaimer at the top of the article, with text in easy to see italics or something.
Meh. I'm not happy about the RMT auction house, but then I'm not happy about the direction they took D3 at all. It is painfully apperent D3 is aimed at the newer generation of gamers and many of said gamers have no issue with RMT and in fact are quite fond of it. So I'll just take my money elsewhere rather than waste pointless time lamenting what "could" have been.
Er....they sort of did...
Disclaimer: The Devil's Advocate is a place where the MMO-Loving world can go to hear the unpopular opinion. Please note that this article does not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the staff of MMORPG.com, the article’s writer or any of the game companies that may be discussed. The Devil's Advocate is an opportunity for the oft-shunned and little discussed “Other Side of the Story” to be heard, promoting open discussion on a heavily contested subject
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
Pay to win are your words. I just mentioned cheating. As paying to avoid a challenge but still get the reward. Any PVE is about challenging you as player. Then there are always players who are competing in PVE by showing off uberstatted loot (strangely enough they dont care if you are in the same competition or not:p ) But to them its paying to win.
It might not have directly have an effect on you (you dont have to use it), but it can change future development strategy. Maybe the developer decides to put in the extra timesink as extra incentive for the cashshop or real cash AH. Anything that will generate more transactions.
Also, you cant put a price on 'money grabbing' . The main reason to come up with the real cash auction is to make extra profit. So its just more or less money grabbing. I call it grabbing, because it changes something fundamentally in games. It is not an improvement of the game, but only an improvement of monetizing the game. The whole idea is very hypocrite because it also goes against what any game is about (overcoming challenges) and I dont think that the actual gamedesigners like this development.
Not to mention an important part of game design (in PVE) is about setting up the DIFFICULTY of the encounters the player will face. The designers do this by considering what sort of resources (including equipment & consumables) the average player/group is likely to bring to the table at that level. If people are buying advantage (in terms of more powerful equipment or more plentiful consumables) then it WILL skew that equation...and game-play for EVERYONE will be effected.
If it's bad enough players who aren't out making purchases with real cash can even end up gimped to the point where it's no longer possible to do encounter (or it becomes an excersize in frustration). Also don't be decieved into thinking that the suits won't be putting pressure on the designers to ARTIFICIALY increase the difficult of encounters for the specific purposes of prodding them into making RMT's and thus increasing the bottom line.
This, in fact, is the exact dynamic at play in many, so called, "Free to Play" games. The fact that it is a lobby based game and an Auction Hall rather then a regular cash shop....only moderate the degree to which that dynamic is at play.
In the end, the only thing RMT's achieve is to make games more expensive to play while cheapening the game experience and the value delivered by the game FOR EVERYONE.
Gamers are only hurting themselves by supporting it....even those who plan to make heavy use of it. What you are telling the Dev's is "Make this game more grindy, more of a time sink and less fun to play....and then let me buy back the entertainment value I would have had otherwise at a Premium on top of what I already paid you."
I can't fathom the short-sightedness of a consumer who actualy thinks this is a good scheme for them. Even if we ignore all arguements about fair play & sportsmanship and preserving the spirit of the game. From just a pure economic standpoint you are shooting yourself in the foot.
If you are tempted to make RMT's... you'd be FAR better off telling the Dev's.... "You're product is TOO grindy...requires too much of a time sink or too much pure luck in order to get reasonable and fun rewards. Change that aspect of the basic design and make it more rewarding/entertaining to play for those with limited play time commitments or I won't buy your base product. Period."
Comments
This RMT auction house will allow you to buy a full set of gear without ever fighting a mob. If you think that's great or don't care then more power to you. I hope the game provides the entertainment your money can buy, however there's no argument that's going to make me see the 'light'.
Blizzard will never add a feature that's going to "devalue" the status of an RMT bought item. That would be like shooting your own foot.
so, if i BUY D3 ,i must Pay To Win too??? this must be a joke.....give us D3 for free and perhaps people Pay to win.......
When did it clearly become a bad idea? Ah i see because you say its a bad idea.
basically as i see it there are 2 types that dislike blizzards AH.
type (A) that state they find fun in killing monsters for loot and though no one forces them to use the AH, They basically admit the game will be ruined for them as they are too weak willed just ignore the AH and will wind up using it.
type (B) those that have to have better equiepment then the majority for some Elitist sense of accomplishment or Superiority. Though these players may only play solo, or with friends/guild members that never use the AH, the fact Joe blow they may never run into can buy the same sword they did 100 boss runs to get ruins the game for them, As their luck of the loot drop or simply insane amount of time to spend no longer makes them Elite.
Any PvP'er that states equipe makes them the best once again boils it down to not skill at pvp, but simply luck of the loot drop roll or mass amount of time to waste. As such perhaps perhaps they are better off ranting in a PvP game like Darkfall.
In the end of the day I'lll buy D3 hopefully it will be a fun game to play, monsters, loot, excitement etc. i doubt i'll use the AH to buy anything as i'd rather just get it the old fashioned way. i don't feel threatened or forced by a Ah button. Nore do i feel that my accomplishments are less if unknown player X has better items then i that they got off the Ah. In fact if they buy some monk gear thats useless to my barbarian from me all the better.
I do understand not everyone plays the same way. I like getting items the old fashion way, others may well want to buy the uber items to kill monsters faster and feel more special. <shrug> if D3's system works for both play styles all the better. I'm not like some here, saying theres only one right way to play the game ie "My way" and that all other ways are clearly bad ideas. I play for fun not to force my play style on others. Since nothing forces the AH on anyone and since it takes the power away from the Illegal gold seller gouging the players and puts it in the hands of the average player that would generally be happy to sell items for a few bucks to make up for the cost of the game rather then the Illegals trying make a living off of it I consider it a Win / Win
These auctions are most definitely a bad idea. The kind of reasoning that says "Well, people do it anyway, but now they'll do it legally!" is just about as stupid as legalizing drugs in real world sports and claiming the problem of cheating among athletes is miraculously solved. It's plain daft.
Paying to win should be looked down upon, laughed at and ridiculed. People that partake in it should be shamed and should feel undeserving of their victories, much like people that use actual hacks and cheats to win. Any kind of development such as this one that endorses paying to win will deteriorate the spirit of skill competitive gaming until its no longer a duel of skill and talent but a duel of wallets, much like what the real world is.
Anyone can be a singer these days; With enough money and the suitable contacts anyone, regardless of their talent or the quality of their voice can bawl into a microphone and someone else will make it sound good. Likewise anyone with enough money and contacts can become a politician; You don't need to have good ideas or follow any particular ideologies, you just need deep pockets. Pay someone to write your speeches, pay someone else to think of ideas, pay someone to research dirt on your competitors, toss money left and right and you'll soon go straight for presidency.
We live in a world where money rules, so it's perhaps vain to think it could ever be kept out of gaming, but it's still a shame watching it go this way. It used to be so innocent, y'know; It was all about entertainment through challenging yourself, but now it's all about winning.
Don't people understand that the sweet taste of victory is so much more savoury when they have to fight for it? A bought victory is just bland and tasteless by comparison.
What about collecting state sales taxes? reporting income? What if by some oddity a lawsuit over a virtual item (wife mad at husband/divorce) comes into play?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
How exactly dose ANOTHERS abilty to buy a" full set of gear" off the Ah affect YOUR game? You understand unless you somehow planed on D3 to be your main PvP game and PUG alot, that you probably won't even run into or play with any of those people.
You do understand D3 isn't a MMO but a instanced game with a lobby. You can play it 100% solo, or just with friends and guild members. If unknown player X buys a magic sword from you for $5 what effect does it really have on your game? If you were planning on playing in every possible open PUG then you would have run into players that bought items anyway only they would have gotten them from the current crop of gold sellers.
Well, ya see, Sukiyaki, the article is intended to take ONE side with you all discussing the OTHER side. That's pretty much the definition of "devil's advocate".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You make no sense and in fact i wonder if you ever played a Diablo game. How exactly do you pay to win? This is not a MMO. People will be playing in their own instances with the people they choose to play with. Who are you to judge how others play? Really Who made you judge jury and exacutioner. Are you saying only peoplealot of spare time should be able to play these games to their peek due the the required time investment?
So "Spirit of skill competitive gaming" now means luck of the loot drop roll, and / or number of hours one can spend zerging a boss run? If thats your version of "spirit of skill" then really i feel sorry for you. Seriously did you even think of what you were typing? You c/o of money but your not fighting for any victory your either lucky in a loot roll and get mega item or buy your way spending time not getting better or proving your better just instead doing some boss run till the items drops. Only difference is in the world money rules, in your world you wish spare time (ie retired, no job, no family, no responsibilites but oodles of game time) and Luck rules. Sad just really very sad...
Actually, we ran a poll a couple weeks ago about adding it. We're reworking our games list to be able to include other types of games like Diablo 3 and LoL and others.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why shouldn't blizzard get in on the profits of reselling their "copyrighted" items? Does Ford or Chevy get in on the reselling of my car? Does Sony/Toshiba/Samsung get in on the reselling of my TV?
So why should Virtual Goods be different?
+10
Very well said
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I believe what he/she was trying to get across is they can correct me if I'm wrong.
Is that what ever happened to playing just for fun. That games are all falling into the same greed that runs the real world. It's the start of a slippery slope.
You must be quite young
The last thing I want is too much of the real world in my game. Mellow out and go watch some reality tv.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
If Blizz chooses instead to go with a $2.00 listing fee and then charged 10% of the final sale ($50.00), they've made $52.00. Pretty big jump in revenue generation, isn't it?
I never said that they wouldn't make money, even HUGE amounts of it. What I said was that they will make -less- money. The premise I intimated was that Blizzard would make significantly more money if they went the percentage route than they will by charging flat rates.
According to the FAQ:
There will be a fixed charge to list an item. If the item sells, there will be an additional fixed charge the seller will pay. The listing portion of the fee will be waived for a limited number of transactions per account.
There will be additional fees, charged both by Blizzard and whatever third party payment processing system you use. There's no mention of the charges being fixed, so my guess would be these charges scaling with the amount of cash you're getting - a percentage.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Its simple for me. I stopped playing single player games that have blatant cash grabs. One of my fav games Dawn Of War has started to do DLC. I am ok with this actually. They provide new content after releasing a COMPLETE game for additional money. On the other hand Dragon Age 2 had DLC on RELEASE DAY and it was blatantly obvious that the content was part of the game during regular design.
It is too bad that the gaming market has turned into this. Makes me wonder that one day I will go to the movies to relax and get half way through and get a pop up box that says if i would like more please insert additional funds.
Actually cheating has been going on since the dawn of time. I play all kinds of games for entertainment when it strikes my fancy and I could really care less on what sucker's want to spend their money on.
each to their own
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
They should legalize RMT in all games. I just hope the tax isn't too high. The same arguement could and should be used for legalizing drugs.
----ITS A TRAP!!!----
Man, your posts have a lot of commie accusations in them. The cold war is over-no ones trying to turn the US or MMORPG into communists systems, it's just people oppinions about a choice the game company made.
So in the same paragraph you state that most of the posters on this site are new to online game, and that those same posters aren't getting with the times and need to embrace the changing industry.
Bravo on contradicting yourself. If most posters here were new to online gaming, they would be more accepting of industry changes. That's how things work. The 'oldschool' mentality, where 'change is bad' and 'the old/current way is better' comes from people having a long period of experience... aka, having been around for a while.
And your logic about cheating is flawed. Just because it has existed and will continue to exist despite the best efforts of those trying to combat it, doesn't mean that giving up suddenly makes cheating okay. just because some companies suddenly decide that RMT is okay for them -- because they're suddenly making their own profit out of it -- it does not suddenly make all of the bad things associated to RMT go away.
People's accounts will still be hacked for the cotnents to be sold. People will still bot to easily get items to flood on the market to try to make money. Gold sellers will still agressively spam players with annoying adds. The game economies will suffer from hyper-inflation due to item and currency flooding. And lastly, the spirit of the game will still be tarnished by the 'cheating' that many consider RMT to be.
You're not going to change people's minds about RMT. A lot of people will never accept it, and would rather not play a game with RMT if it came to it. Blizzard is trying to push this idea because they profit, not because it's better for the players or the game itself. That doesn't mean that everyone just has to bend over and take it; there are alternatives to Diablo 3 that look better and better every day.
Well maybe you should clairify that. You know like put a disclaimer at the top of the article, with text in easy to see italics or something.
Meh. I'm not happy about the RMT auction house, but then I'm not happy about the direction they took D3 at all. It is painfully apperent D3 is aimed at the newer generation of gamers and many of said gamers have no issue with RMT and in fact are quite fond of it. So I'll just take my money elsewhere rather than waste pointless time lamenting what "could" have been.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Pay to win are your words. I just mentioned cheating. As paying to avoid a challenge but still get the reward. Any PVE is about challenging you as player. Then there are always players who are competing in PVE by showing off uberstatted loot (strangely enough they dont care if you are in the same competition or not:p ) But to them its paying to win.
It might not have directly have an effect on you (you dont have to use it), but it can change future development strategy. Maybe the developer decides to put in the extra timesink as extra incentive for the cashshop or real cash AH. Anything that will generate more transactions.
Also, you cant put a price on 'money grabbing' . The main reason to come up with the real cash auction is to make extra profit. So its just more or less money grabbing. I call it grabbing, because it changes something fundamentally in games. It is not an improvement of the game, but only an improvement of monetizing the game. The whole idea is very hypocrite because it also goes against what any game is about (overcoming challenges) and I dont think that the actual gamedesigners like this development.
I'm generally easy on cash shop run games. As long as things stay reasonable I don't mind. Thing is when you have to pay for the game.(Activision is going to make this at least $60) I expect for there to be no "pay to win". I expect the company that makes the game to level the playing field for everyone and not be part of the problem. Sure in the past people have sold things for rl money but there are ways to police it. Maybe not by 100% but enough to make cheaters nervious. I don't buy any altruism here. It's about money and that's that. This has definitely dampened my enthusiasm for the game. We'll see how I feel once it's released and we see how it really works but for now.. activision.. you suck.
Er....they sort of did...
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Just saying.....
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not to mention an important part of game design (in PVE) is about setting up the DIFFICULTY of the encounters the player will face. The designers do this by considering what sort of resources (including equipment & consumables) the average player/group is likely to bring to the table at that level. If people are buying advantage (in terms of more powerful equipment or more plentiful consumables) then it WILL skew that equation...and game-play for EVERYONE will be effected.
If it's bad enough players who aren't out making purchases with real cash can even end up gimped to the point where it's no longer possible to do encounter (or it becomes an excersize in frustration). Also don't be decieved into thinking that the suits won't be putting pressure on the designers to ARTIFICIALY increase the difficult of encounters for the specific purposes of prodding them into making RMT's and thus increasing the bottom line.
This, in fact, is the exact dynamic at play in many, so called, "Free to Play" games. The fact that it is a lobby based game and an Auction Hall rather then a regular cash shop....only moderate the degree to which that dynamic is at play.
In the end, the only thing RMT's achieve is to make games more expensive to play while cheapening the game experience and the value delivered by the game FOR EVERYONE.
Gamers are only hurting themselves by supporting it....even those who plan to make heavy use of it. What you are telling the Dev's is "Make this game more grindy, more of a time sink and less fun to play....and then let me buy back the entertainment value I would have had otherwise at a Premium on top of what I already paid you."
I can't fathom the short-sightedness of a consumer who actualy thinks this is a good scheme for them. Even if we ignore all arguements about fair play & sportsmanship and preserving the spirit of the game. From just a pure economic standpoint you are shooting yourself in the foot.
If you are tempted to make RMT's... you'd be FAR better off telling the Dev's.... "You're product is TOO grindy...requires too much of a time sink or too much pure luck in order to get reasonable and fun rewards. Change that aspect of the basic design and make it more rewarding/entertaining to play for those with limited play time commitments or I won't buy your base product. Period."