Well, ya see, Sukiyaki, the article is intended to take ONE side with you all discussing the OTHER side. That's pretty much the definition of "devil's advocate".
Well maybe you should clairify that. You know like put a disclaimer at the top of the article, with text in easy to see italics or something.
Meh. I'm not happy about the RMT auction house, but then I'm not happy about the direction they took D3 at all. It is painfully apperent D3 is aimed at the newer generation of gamers and many of said gamers have no issue with RMT and in fact are quite fond of it. So I'll just take my money elsewhere rather than waste pointless time lamenting what "could" have been.
Er....they sort of did...
Disclaimer: The Devil's Advocate is a place where the MMO-Loving world can go to hear the unpopular opinion. Please note that this article does not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the staff of MMORPG.com, the article’s writer or any of the game companies that may be discussed. The Devil's Advocate is an opportunity for the oft-shunned and little discussed “Other Side of the Story” to be heard, promoting open discussion on a heavily contested subject
Just saying.....
I know, that was my point, its called sarcasm, man.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
This RMT auction house will allow you to buy a full set of gear without ever fighting a mob. If you think that's great or don't care then more power to you. I hope the game provides the entertainment your money can buy, however there's no argument that's going to make me see the 'light'.
How exactly dose ANOTHERS abilty to buy a" full set of gear" off the Ah affect YOUR game? You understand unless you somehow planed on D3 to be your main PvP game and PUG alot, that you probably won't even run into or play with any of those people.
You do understand D3 isn't a MMO but a instanced game with a lobby. You can play it 100% solo, or just with friends and guild members. If unknown player X buys a magic sword from you for $5 what effect does it really have on your game? If you were planning on playing in every possible open PUG then you would have run into players that bought items anyway only they would have gotten them from the current crop of gold sellers.
Where do i start?
First of all what I "can" do is irrelevant. I play games a certain way and for certain reasons. Telling me to bypass that and play a different way just doesn't work for me on any level. It would be like telling somebody who hates pvp to start loving it if they are getting bored with the pve side
Now if you grasped that first concept maybe you will grasp this as well. Why does it matter what others do in Diablo? hmmm. To understand that you have to realize a few things about loot and loot collecting. It has different values to different people. I'm not talking monetary, that's just a small part. It has PvP value, It has prestige value, It has accomplishment value, it has collectors value.. I could go on. Needless to say the world does not evolve around PvP nor does it evolve around money.
Let me ask you this, why do you think there is an inspect button in games?. I'll give you a hint. It isn't so you can kick people from the party if they are not up to par. I know this one can be a real mind bender but I'll give you a hint. It has to do with the words motivational factor, envy, prestige (there's that word again), competition and so on.
Here is another mindbender. Competitive play outside of PvP. That means people can compete for something without having to fight each other. Silly right? well it does exist. Competition is not defined by fighting. If you wanted to race your friend or wanted to see who could drink the most coffee within 1 minute well damn, you have a competition going on. Works with games too. Works with who has the biggest E-peen sword as well.
Lets talk prestige for a second. This is one of the reasons why you find Joe Smoe standing in the newbie area with tier 100 raid gear. While you stand in the corner thinking about how stupid that is. There's a lot of other players that run up and inspect him going woaaaaaa!!! can I be your friend??. Hell from what I have seen that's probably half the reasons why some people want this gear to begin with. Just to stand in the newbie area showing off like some other e-tard. This is about MMOs but work with Diablo as well. It's to show a different motivational factor. A factor well and alive in Diablo 2 and most loot driven MMOs
Lets talk about me for a second which I didn't above, in case you missed that, and why I care. I have always enjoyed inspecting other players to see where I'm at gear wise. Compare and contrast if you will. I always like I was on equal footing when it came to gearing up. I realize people with more time had the greater opportunity but I wasn't completely out of the gear hunting game. There's still luck of the drop and the fact I could use more time playing in certain periods like vaccations, just to get caught up.
I don't care about being admired but I realize there are all kinds of people out there. I do however compete with others in a sense that I try and be the better geared player simply for my own enjoyment. If I see better geared players it just motivates me to try and become better geared myself. It's not Important that I'm number one, but just the fact that I'm trying. I like luck and time being the two factors that determine success (for everyone). Even if I don't have that time available anymore. That's the way it has always been.
That's the best way I can sum it up. Money Influences directly why I play and why I stay motivated to gearing up. Telling me to just play with friends or just play solo goes against what motivates me and my whole interest in Diablo 3 to begin with. There's only one solution at this point and that's to play something else. I can't change the reasons what I like about Diablo anymore than I can force you to like something you simply don't
PS: before we get into the whole "Well RMT existed since the dawn of time illegally" I didn't care then and I don't now. The risks these people took to go that route like getting banned, getting their CC info abused, getting hacked, the list continues was enough for me to tolerate it. The fact that the developers did "something" to try and combat it. To sum it up, I don't care about illegal RMT and how that throws a wrench in my "motivational factor". I do however care about an endorsed RMT scheme
This RMT auction house will allow you to buy a full set of gear without ever fighting a mob. If you think that's great or don't care then more power to you. I hope the game provides the entertainment your money can buy, however there's no argument that's going to make me see the 'light'.
How exactly dose ANOTHERS abilty to buy a" full set of gear" off the Ah affect YOUR game? You understand unless you somehow planed on D3 to be your main PvP game and PUG alot, that you probably won't even run into or play with any of those people.
You do understand D3 isn't a MMO but a instanced game with a lobby. You can play it 100% solo, or just with friends and guild members. If unknown player X buys a magic sword from you for $5 what effect does it really have on your game? If you were planning on playing in every possible open PUG then you would have run into players that bought items anyway only they would have gotten them from the current crop of gold sellers.
Where do i start?
First of all what I "can" do is irrelevant. I play games a certain way and for certain reasons. Telling me to bypass that and play a different way just doesn't work for me on any level. It would be like telling somebody who hates pvp to start loving it if they are getting bored with the pve side
Now if you grasped that first concept maybe you will grasp this as well. Why does it matter what others do in Diablo? hmmm. To understand that you have to realize a few things about loot and loot collecting. It has different values to different people. I'm not talking monetary, that's just a small part. It has PvP value, It has prestige value, It has accomplishment value, it has collectors value.. I could go on. Needless to say the world does not evolve around PvP nor does it evolve around money.
Let me ask you this, why do you think there is an inspect button in games?. I'll give you a hint. It isn't so you can kick people from the party if they are not up to par. I know this one can be a real mind bender but I'll give you a hint. It has to do with the words motivational factor, envy, prestige (there's that word again), competition and so on.
Here is another mindbender. Competitive play outside of PvP. That means people can compete for something without having to fight each other. Silly right? well it does exist. Competition is not defined by fighting. If you wanted to race your friend or wanted to see who could drink the most coffee within 1 minute well damn, you have a competition going on. Works with games too. Works with who has the biggest E-peen sword as well.
Lets talk prestige for a second. This is one of the reasons why you find Joe Smoe standing in the newbie area with tier 100 raid gear. While you stand in the corner thinking about how stupid that is. There's a lot of other players that run up and inspect him going woaaaaaa!!! can I be your friend??. Hell from what I have seen that's probably half the reasons why some people want this gear to begin with. Just to stand in the newbie area showing off like some other e-tard. This is about MMOs but work with Diablo as well. It's to show a different motivational factor. A factor well and alive in Diablo 2 and most loot driven MMOs
Lets talk about me for a second which I didn't above, in case you missed that, and why I care. I have always enjoyed inspecting other players to see where I'm at gear wise. Compare and contrast if you will. I always like I was on equal footing when it came to gearing up. I realize people with more time had the greater opportunity but I wasn't completely out of the gear hunting game. There's still luck of the drop and the fact I could use more time playing in certain periods like vaccations, just to get caught up.
I don't care about being admired but I realize there are all kinds of people out there. I do however compete with others in a sense that I try and be the better geared player simply for my own enjoyment. If I see better geared players it just motivates me to try and become better geared myself. It's not Important that I'm number one, but just the fact that I'm trying. I like luck and time being the two factors that determine success (for everyone). Even if I don't have that time available anymore. That's the way it has always been.
That's the best way I can sum it up. Money Influences directly why I play and why I stay motivated to gearing up. Telling me to just play with friends or just play solo goes against what motivates me and my whole interest in Diablo 3 to begin with. There's only one solution at this point and that's to play something else. I can't change the reasons what I like about Diablo anymore than I can force you to like something you simply don't
PS: before we get into the whole "Well RMT existed since the dawn of time illegally" I didn't care then and I don't now. The risks these people took to go that route like getting banned, getting their CC info abused, getting hacked, the list continues was enough for me to tolerate it. The fact that the developers did "something" to try and combat it. To sum it up, I don't care about illegal RMT and how that throws a wrench in my "motivational factor". I do however care about an endorsed RMT scheme
With RMAH
Ok person A gets an awesomersword, lists item on RMAH.
Person B buys item on RMAH for 5bucks., You now inspect person b and are like damn my weapon sucks next to his he must have got that off the RMAH.
Without RMAH
Person A trades awesomersword for Person B's awesomertinfoilhat.
You inspect person A, "wow my hat is fail against this" most likely 3 things are popping in your mind. This guy plays to much and needs a life, this guy must have RMT'd that shit what a cheater or you ask how he got it to see if he was infact an RMTer or someone who has no life.
Later in the day you see Person B with his awesomersword and are like this game is full of cheaters wth.
Now take this however you want, it isn't particularly against you but judging from your post its how you would react in my mind. I'm just wanting you to see in atleast D3 which is what this topic is about that regardless of the RMAH, someone is going to have those items that you're pitting yourself against. Legit or otherwise the item will be there so i don't see how you will know unless you ask the person if they got it of the RMAH or Drop or trade.
Oh I perfectly know those types exist, you get no argument there. I'm just not one of them. You see you can't categorize me based on your own stereotypes. That's your first mistake. Why would i judge a person with having too much time when I just told you I prefer time to be a factor. I think you get your viewpoints from every other place but my post
I'll tell you what happens. I see Diabloplayer_001 with uber sword of doom, then realize my own sword sucks. My first thought is to ask him where he got it. Then I will proceed to farm those mobs to see If I can get lucky. End of story
With RMT or RMAH I don't even want to ask. It's a moot question. He could have gotten it from a mob or the RMAH. It doesn't really matter. That's hypothetical because It's a situation that could never happen. It would require I get an attitude change towards RMT which I won't
Oh I perfectly know those types exist, you get no argument there. I'm just not one of them. You see you can't categorize me based on your own stereotypes. That's your first mistake
I'll tell you what happens. I see Diabloplayer_001 with uber sword of doom, then realize my own sword sucks. My first thought is to ask him where he got it. Then I will proceed to farm those mobs to see If I can get lucky. End of story
With RMT or RMAH I don't even want to ask. It's a moot question. He could have gotten it from a mob or the RMAH. It doesn't really matter. That's hypothetical because It's a situation that could never happen. It would require I get an attitude change towards RMT which I won't
Ok you have me confused here, you see a guy with an awesome weapon and ask how he got it, thats cool all but i don't understand your RMT portion. You recognize the RMTs and don't bother asking? So are you assuming someone with unreal gear is cheating?
i win at typos
Why are you using the word "cheating" whom are you replying to. You have read this whole thread. Taken bits and pieces from peoples posts and trying to piece it together with mine. It won't work that way since we are not all one voice.
I don't assume he used the RMAH. He has the option to. That's enough
I can boil it down to. I like time and luck. I don't like money trades. Cheating is not even in my vocabulary unless somebody hacks. I like everybody having an equal opportunity based on time available. Not based on how much money you are willing to spend. I just replied to why I care about what others do. That seems to be the thing that causes the greatest confusion. Specially among those that either solos or only play with friends
I'm not even debtaing if this is good for the industry or not. If players embraces it then I'm the dinosaur that has to find another hobby. I'm strictly trying to explain how this is affecting me. Not how this is affecting everyone
Oh I perfectly know those types exist, you get no argument there. I'm just not one of them. You see you can't categorize me based on your own stereotypes. That's your first mistake
I'll tell you what happens. I see Diabloplayer_001 with uber sword of doom, then realize my own sword sucks. My first thought is to ask him where he got it. Then I will proceed to farm those mobs to see If I can get lucky. End of story
With RMT or RMAH I don't even want to ask. It's a moot question. He could have gotten it from a mob or the RMAH. It doesn't really matter. That's hypothetical because It's a situation that could never happen. It would require I get an attitude change towards RMT which I won't
Ok you have me confused here, you see a guy with an awesome weapon and ask how he got it, thats cool all but i don't understand your RMT portion. You recognize the RMTs and don't bother asking? So are you assuming someone with unreal gear is cheating?
i win at typos
Why are you using the word "cheating" whom are you replying to. You have read this whole thread. Taken bits and pieces from peoples posts and trying to piece it together with mine. It won't work that way since we are not all one voice.
I don't assume he used the RMAH. He has the option to. That's enough
I can boil it down to. I like time and luck. I don't like money trades. Cheating is not even in my vocabulary unless somebody hacks. I like everybody having an equal opportunity based on time available. Not based on how much money you are willing to spend. I just replied to why I care about what others do. That seems to be the thing that causes the greatest confusion. Specially among those that either solos or only play with friends
I was just trying to understand what your previous post was, If i understand now its that if it has RMAH you don't view it as a place you'd compete in.
Also what am i taking from other posts and applying to your own heh.. cheating? RMT is cheating, hacks are cheating and so is account sharing. You can't label one without the other.
That's essentially it. Also quite refreshing I don't have to argue how competing for gear is also a form of competition. I don't necessarily agree about the cheating part. If a game endorses RMT I don't really view it as cheating. More like a shortcut that shouldn't be there.
I don't care about third party sites and how unsafe they are or that they infest the game I play. If people want to take that risk I say let them. I'm more accepting of that then this Blizzard endorsed RMT shop.
Except it's Blizzard who pays for they stupidity. Be it by losing customer(who will blame Blizzard of course) or by offering supporft for hacked accounts. It's nice to be a knight with shiny armour on white horse when You don't pay no consequences for Your actions.
Oh I perfectly know those types exist, you get no argument there. I'm just not one of them. You see you can't categorize me based on your own stereotypes. That's your first mistake
I'll tell you what happens. I see Diabloplayer_001 with uber sword of doom, then realize my own sword sucks. My first thought is to ask him where he got it. Then I will proceed to farm those mobs to see If I can get lucky. End of story
With RMT or RMAH I don't even want to ask. It's a moot question. He could have gotten it from a mob or the RMAH. It doesn't really matter. That's hypothetical because It's a situation that could never happen. It would require I get an attitude change towards RMT which I won't
Ok you have me confused here, you see a guy with an awesome weapon and ask how he got it, thats cool all but i don't understand your RMT portion. You recognize the RMTs and don't bother asking? So are you assuming someone with unreal gear is cheating?
i win at typos
I'm not even debtaing if this is good for the industry or not. If players embraces it then I'm the dinosaur that has to find another hobby. I'm strictly trying to explain how this is affecting me. Not how this is affecting everyone
Didn't see that tidbit, however the players are already embracing this.. eventually you will lose a hobby if thats your stance. Which is fine as i used to have a similar stance aswell and have quit MMO's in the past because of it.
What players are embracing this? All I see is the same small crowd cheering RMT on while the masses just bite their tongue and tolerate it because they think they have no other option. The majority of players are more neutral about the topic, because they don't percieve it as having any effect them, because they'll just play the game and try to avoid the RMT.
As for losing a hobby for having a stance agaisnt RMT... the existence of RMT in games is exactly the point of contension causing those of us who dislike RMT to lose our hobby. It's not a matter of acceptance of it, because it's mere existence causes said games to no longer register as hobbies because the drive of the game becomes money and not the game itself. Not everyone percieves it like this, but this is just how it is for a lot of people. Many will simply never accept RMT.
As for losing a hobby anyways... you know, people like yourself keep saying that. That RMT is the future and that we just have to suck it up and take it. Otherwise we'll have nothing to play because everything will have RMT. And yet, I look around and what I see is big name developers adding RMT, and indie companies coming up with games that are fun and enjoyable, and they have no RMT what-so-ever.
Torchlght 2 for example, will be a great alternative to Diablo 3, and best of all it doesn't support RMT like Diablo 3. The market will continue to produce RMTless games, because there will always be a considerable segment of gamers that want pure RMTless games.
If you ask me, the only people losing their hobby over RMT, is the people who support it. RMT games are composed of two groups, those who throw money into a virtual pit, and those who take on a job that pays far less than minimum wage. Either way, you lose.
So many people treating a single/multi player lobby game like yet another MMO. Guess that can't be helped as it's site about MMOs after all. Comments about creating content based on gear level...erm this will be whole game, no content wil be created for anyone? Inspecting people? Doing PuG runs? This is a LOBBY game. NOT an MMO. Have anyone even played Diablo 2 here?
Anyways if I use trainer/codes/hack for Dragon Age/Civilization/Crysis, will You get affected somehow? After all I can beat enemies faster and better than You do. Wait I know answer. You don't care about losers who cheat, as they spoil their own fun. So why do You care about people using RM AH?
Unless You'd play hardcore PvP, then I guess yea You'll be influenced by it, but regardless whether Blizz would allow or fight RMT You'd have to live with it and either join it or play with bad gear (if You want to have a real life that is).
I just can't get people being so outraged by this idea. Unless You are hardcore I see no way this can ever negatively influence You. You just have option to sell items You don't want for cash. Pure win.
I can see already that prices will skyrocket to a ludacris amount. Selling [insert rare item here] $500 T__T, no thankyou blizzard.
If prices do skyrocket, you will probably see a reduction in sales and the prices will in turn come down. Laws of supply and demand. Sure it's not quite that black and white, but the point is fairly simple.
The RMT AH is completely optional, and those who wish to participate may. It's no different than ebay, craigslist, etc. The only thing different is that Blizzard gets a little taste of the sale.
Yes, there will be people who will be able to make a living off this, and there will be people who spend too much, but we are all ultimately responsible for our own actions.
The only real issue is the potential for tax law to get involved, since these virtual items will now have a real world value in terms of cash. You might see the advent of sales tax based upon the zip code of your credit card, or location.
i see alot of crying in here and ppl sayin no thanks blizzard. how about just find the items yaself aye. no one is forcing you to buy any items with real money. 'oh no someone whill have a better item then me cause they paid with real money waaaah' stfu and just get better at pvp. gear rarely = win. no wait.. dont play the game that way i wont have to deal with all the babies why cry about anything that doesnt work for them
I dont know about you guys.But i have played Diablo 2 for over 4 years.I really loved the item trading between players,especially when they were wiping the ladders and all the dupes and shit were gone.
Now,i cant see a reason for players using this old system. Lets say a guy finds a rare Windforce ( in the old days it was worth a full inventory of soj's), will he put it up for sale in the cash AH? I bet my ass he will.
Now i am the amazon that needs that Windforce to significantly increase my dmg in the PVP ladder arena. I am off farming for gear with my mates.But i am not lucky and i dont manage to get that Windforce dropped for me.Instead i get a shaco,an ist rune and whatever else i don't really need for pvping.It would be extremely cool for me to spend my time in trade channels and trade games to find a trader with a windforce (I was spending 3-6 hours a day trading back then in diablo 2 and i enjoyed it).
But instead the guy that was able to trade that windforce with me, decided to put it up in the cash AH.Then i have to sell all the stuff i dont need in the AH, so i can get the money to buy the Windforce from that player. So in the end, why at all waste my time to farm that item or other items in that matter,when i can simply click on the AH spend 50 Euros and buy that item instantly?
Where is the fun in that?It just takes away hours and hours of playtime for me.And hurts the wallet for a lot of players if they want to stay competitive in pvp at least.It completely kills a great aspect that diablo2 had,the item vs item trade system.I would still be playing diablo2 if it wasnt for the dupes and hacks that completely destroyed the trading system eventually.
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
You should know that there will be a ladder pvp system in D3.Thats how it becomes pay to win.And just imagine playing in hardcore mode and losing your character to a guy that just spent 200$ in the AH.How would that make you feel?
It just ruins the integrity of the game not to mention it is a pay to win game now. At one time people played Diablo for the lov eof the game, now they will play for the love of money. Greed, it's bad.
Don't people understand that the sweet taste of victory is so much more savoury when they have to fight for it? A bought victory is just bland and tasteless by comparison.
Do you realize that the largest pocket book wins the battle? Whats it take to train and equip an army? What does it take to acquire, train and transport players for a team? If you were a racer of any sort, are you gonna skimp on costs? seriously get with it. You can't BUY a win in D3, you may be able to buy parts to the vehicle to help you get there but it doesn't mean a win.
As i have said in a previous post, P2W = non world game items, SHOP ONLY ITEMS. The things that make shops P2W are the enhancement materials that they usually provide.
So lets say we face each other in a pvp 2v2 arena match.We are all good players have our own worked out strategies and you lose because i had an inventory full of 20 life small charms that i bought with 300$ just yesterday.How does that make you feel? I mean i had only 800 hp more than you because i spent 300$,match ends im left with 400 hp. How do you feel about that?
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
I agree with you completely, but I have to ask.. are you sure you know what Communism is?
Actually, we ran a poll a couple weeks ago about adding it. We're reworking our games list to be able to include other types of games like Diablo 3 and LoL and others.
And I wish you wouldn't. Stick with MMOs. If I wanted D3 info, I wouldn't be here because it's not a MMORPG. If you branch out, people who are looking for MMO-only information will be looking elsewhere. I sure will.
Don't people understand that the sweet taste of victory is so much more savoury when they have to fight for it? A bought victory is just bland and tasteless by comparison.
Do you realize that the largest pocket book wins the battle? Whats it take to train and equip an army? What does it take to acquire, train and transport players for a team? If you were a racer of any sort, are you gonna skimp on costs? seriously get with it. You can't BUY a win in D3, you may be able to buy parts to the vehicle to help you get there but it doesn't mean a win.
As i have said in a previous post, P2W = non world game items, SHOP ONLY ITEMS. The things that make shops P2W are the enhancement materials that they usually provide.
So lets say we face each other in a pvp 2v2 arena match.We are all good players have our own worked out strategies and you lose because i had an inventory full of 20 life small charms that i bought with 300$ just yesterday.How does that make you feel? I mean i had only 800 hp more than you because i spent 300$,match ends im left with 400 hp. How do you feel about that?
Nothing. The game is over, and I either try again, do something else or log out.
Try another scenario. We both are warriors, you have been playing for 10 more hours a day, so when we duel, we have the same hp but you have 243 skills in sword, while I only have 25, so you win. Should I be happier than the scenario you mentioned?
For me its just the same. I want someone to duel, I duel, I lost. That is it.
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
You should know that there will be a ladder pvp system in D3.Thats how it becomes pay to win.And just imagine playing in hardcore mode and losing your character to a guy that just spent 200$ in the AH.How would that make you feel?
More ignorance, Blizzard confirmed no RMAH for hardcore. Blizzard has also yet to confirm ladder of any kind.
I just found out about hardcore mode not having RMAH. But you should also know that there be a competetive pvp Arena in this game.So you can still pay to win against other players.
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
I agree with you completely, but I have to ask.. are you sure you know what Communism is?
Sidetracking, you will get a different answer from Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao ... . So it depends on who you ask.
Don't people understand that the sweet taste of victory is so much more savoury when they have to fight for it? A bought victory is just bland and tasteless by comparison.
Do you realize that the largest pocket book wins the battle? Whats it take to train and equip an army? What does it take to acquire, train and transport players for a team? If you were a racer of any sort, are you gonna skimp on costs? seriously get with it. You can't BUY a win in D3, you may be able to buy parts to the vehicle to help you get there but it doesn't mean a win.
As i have said in a previous post, P2W = non world game items, SHOP ONLY ITEMS. The things that make shops P2W are the enhancement materials that they usually provide.
So lets say we face each other in a pvp 2v2 arena match.We are all good players have our own worked out strategies and you lose because i had an inventory full of 20 life small charms that i bought with 300$ just yesterday.How does that make you feel? I mean i had only 800 hp more than you because i spent 300$,match ends im left with 400 hp. How do you feel about that?
Nothing. The game is over, and I either try again, do something else or log out.
Try another scenario. We both are warriors, you have been playing for 10 more hours a day, so when we duel, we have the same hp but you have 243 skills in sword, while I only have 25, so you win. Should I be happier than the scenario you mentioned?
For me its just the same. I want someone to duel, I duel, I lost. That is it.
Well, you might not be a competitive pvp player in the first place then.You dont mind being stuck in the low pvp rating,because u just lost to people with big e-wallets.So why do you keep arguing about it not being paytowin when you dont even care about it?
Edit: You also didnt understand what i was saying.I sayed imagine that we share identical playing skills and strategies and we are all good players.Why should my 300$ make a difference in the outcome of the match?
You scenario seems to be a fair outcome though.The player that had the more practice and played more is better than you.Whats your point here?
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
You should know that there will be a ladder pvp system in D3.Thats how it becomes pay to win.And just imagine playing in hardcore mode and losing your character to a guy that just spent 200$ in the AH.How would that make you feel?
More ignorance, Blizzard confirmed no RMAH for hardcore. Blizzard has also yet to confirm ladder of any kind.
I just found out about hardcore mode not having RMAH. But you should also know that there be a competetive pvp Arena in this game.So you can still pay to win against other players.
A true confident player will take all odds and weather it, and not blame his defeat on any excuse.
Those who whine and cry foul after being defeat and yet try to put up a face as hardcore gamers are really pathetic. You play, you lose. Try again next time.
In the real world, the country with more money to spend on its army will likely command an army with better odds to win. Can Iraq blame its defeat in the desert war on the US GDP, does it matter? Defeat is defeat, swallow it and keep trying.
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
You should know that there will be a ladder pvp system in D3.Thats how it becomes pay to win.And just imagine playing in hardcore mode and losing your character to a guy that just spent 200$ in the AH.How would that make you feel?
More ignorance, Blizzard confirmed no RMAH for hardcore. Blizzard has also yet to confirm ladder of any kind.
I just found out about hardcore mode not having RMAH. But you should also know that there be a competetive pvp Arena in this game.So you can still pay to win against other players.
A true confident player will take all odds and weather it, and not blame his defeat on any excuse.
Those who whine and cry foul after being defeat and yet try to put up a face as hardcore gamers are really pathetic. You play, you lose. Try again next time.
In the real world, the country with more money to spend on its army will likely command an army with better odds to win. Can Iraq blame its defeat in the desert war on the US GDP, does it matter? Defeat is defeat, swallow it and keep trying.
You make no sense.And you dont get the point. And your example here is completely inacurate.This is a game.If i want to compete with other players,i would like it to be in fair ways.Doesnt matter if my enemy is better or worse.
Do athletes that lose a gold medal to a milisec by a drugged player feel happy about it? I dont think so.Its the same here.People should not get stronger in game, by using $$$$.
Comments
I know, that was my point, its called sarcasm, man.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Where do i start?
First of all what I "can" do is irrelevant. I play games a certain way and for certain reasons. Telling me to bypass that and play a different way just doesn't work for me on any level. It would be like telling somebody who hates pvp to start loving it if they are getting bored with the pve side
Now if you grasped that first concept maybe you will grasp this as well. Why does it matter what others do in Diablo? hmmm. To understand that you have to realize a few things about loot and loot collecting. It has different values to different people. I'm not talking monetary, that's just a small part. It has PvP value, It has prestige value, It has accomplishment value, it has collectors value.. I could go on. Needless to say the world does not evolve around PvP nor does it evolve around money.
Let me ask you this, why do you think there is an inspect button in games?. I'll give you a hint. It isn't so you can kick people from the party if they are not up to par. I know this one can be a real mind bender but I'll give you a hint. It has to do with the words motivational factor, envy, prestige (there's that word again), competition and so on.
Here is another mindbender. Competitive play outside of PvP. That means people can compete for something without having to fight each other. Silly right? well it does exist. Competition is not defined by fighting. If you wanted to race your friend or wanted to see who could drink the most coffee within 1 minute well damn, you have a competition going on. Works with games too. Works with who has the biggest E-peen sword as well.
Lets talk prestige for a second. This is one of the reasons why you find Joe Smoe standing in the newbie area with tier 100 raid gear. While you stand in the corner thinking about how stupid that is. There's a lot of other players that run up and inspect him going woaaaaaa!!! can I be your friend??. Hell from what I have seen that's probably half the reasons why some people want this gear to begin with. Just to stand in the newbie area showing off like some other e-tard. This is about MMOs but work with Diablo as well. It's to show a different motivational factor. A factor well and alive in Diablo 2 and most loot driven MMOs
Lets talk about me for a second which I didn't above, in case you missed that, and why I care. I have always enjoyed inspecting other players to see where I'm at gear wise. Compare and contrast if you will. I always like I was on equal footing when it came to gearing up. I realize people with more time had the greater opportunity but I wasn't completely out of the gear hunting game. There's still luck of the drop and the fact I could use more time playing in certain periods like vaccations, just to get caught up.
I don't care about being admired but I realize there are all kinds of people out there. I do however compete with others in a sense that I try and be the better geared player simply for my own enjoyment. If I see better geared players it just motivates me to try and become better geared myself. It's not Important that I'm number one, but just the fact that I'm trying. I like luck and time being the two factors that determine success (for everyone). Even if I don't have that time available anymore. That's the way it has always been.
That's the best way I can sum it up. Money Influences directly why I play and why I stay motivated to gearing up. Telling me to just play with friends or just play solo goes against what motivates me and my whole interest in Diablo 3 to begin with. There's only one solution at this point and that's to play something else. I can't change the reasons what I like about Diablo anymore than I can force you to like something you simply don't
PS: before we get into the whole "Well RMT existed since the dawn of time illegally" I didn't care then and I don't now. The risks these people took to go that route like getting banned, getting their CC info abused, getting hacked, the list continues was enough for me to tolerate it. The fact that the developers did "something" to try and combat it. To sum it up, I don't care about illegal RMT and how that throws a wrench in my "motivational factor". I do however care about an endorsed RMT scheme
Oh I perfectly know those types exist, you get no argument there. I'm just not one of them. You see you can't categorize me based on your own stereotypes. That's your first mistake. Why would i judge a person with having too much time when I just told you I prefer time to be a factor. I think you get your viewpoints from every other place but my post
I'll tell you what happens. I see Diabloplayer_001 with uber sword of doom, then realize my own sword sucks. My first thought is to ask him where he got it. Then I will proceed to farm those mobs to see If I can get lucky. End of story
With RMT or RMAH I don't even want to ask. It's a moot question. He could have gotten it from a mob or the RMAH. It doesn't really matter. That's hypothetical because It's a situation that could never happen. It would require I get an attitude change towards RMT which I won't
Why are you using the word "cheating" whom are you replying to. You have read this whole thread. Taken bits and pieces from peoples posts and trying to piece it together with mine. It won't work that way since we are not all one voice.
I don't assume he used the RMAH. He has the option to. That's enough
I can boil it down to. I like time and luck. I don't like money trades. Cheating is not even in my vocabulary unless somebody hacks. I like everybody having an equal opportunity based on time available. Not based on how much money you are willing to spend. I just replied to why I care about what others do. That seems to be the thing that causes the greatest confusion. Specially among those that either solos or only play with friends
I'm not even debtaing if this is good for the industry or not. If players embraces it then I'm the dinosaur that has to find another hobby. I'm strictly trying to explain how this is affecting me. Not how this is affecting everyone
That's essentially it. Also quite refreshing I don't have to argue how competing for gear is also a form of competition. I don't necessarily agree about the cheating part. If a game endorses RMT I don't really view it as cheating. More like a shortcut that shouldn't be there.
I can see the pro's.
I can see the con's.
I can see myself passing, because this has "HUGE CLUSTERFLUNK" written all over it.
Have a sense of humor, no need to get ALL MODDY !
A Simpson's quote shouldn't be worth a warning. You are lucky anyone is bothering to read this rag.
I can see already that prices will skyrocket to a ludacris amount. Selling [insert rare item here] $500 T__T, no thankyou blizzard.
Except it's Blizzard who pays for they stupidity. Be it by losing customer(who will blame Blizzard of course) or by offering supporft for hacked accounts. It's nice to be a knight with shiny armour on white horse when You don't pay no consequences for Your actions.
What players are embracing this? All I see is the same small crowd cheering RMT on while the masses just bite their tongue and tolerate it because they think they have no other option. The majority of players are more neutral about the topic, because they don't percieve it as having any effect them, because they'll just play the game and try to avoid the RMT.
As for losing a hobby for having a stance agaisnt RMT... the existence of RMT in games is exactly the point of contension causing those of us who dislike RMT to lose our hobby. It's not a matter of acceptance of it, because it's mere existence causes said games to no longer register as hobbies because the drive of the game becomes money and not the game itself. Not everyone percieves it like this, but this is just how it is for a lot of people. Many will simply never accept RMT.
As for losing a hobby anyways... you know, people like yourself keep saying that. That RMT is the future and that we just have to suck it up and take it. Otherwise we'll have nothing to play because everything will have RMT. And yet, I look around and what I see is big name developers adding RMT, and indie companies coming up with games that are fun and enjoyable, and they have no RMT what-so-ever.
Torchlght 2 for example, will be a great alternative to Diablo 3, and best of all it doesn't support RMT like Diablo 3. The market will continue to produce RMTless games, because there will always be a considerable segment of gamers that want pure RMTless games.
If you ask me, the only people losing their hobby over RMT, is the people who support it. RMT games are composed of two groups, those who throw money into a virtual pit, and those who take on a job that pays far less than minimum wage. Either way, you lose.
So many people treating a single/multi player lobby game like yet another MMO. Guess that can't be helped as it's site about MMOs after all. Comments about creating content based on gear level...erm this will be whole game, no content wil be created for anyone? Inspecting people? Doing PuG runs? This is a LOBBY game. NOT an MMO. Have anyone even played Diablo 2 here?
Anyways if I use trainer/codes/hack for Dragon Age/Civilization/Crysis, will You get affected somehow? After all I can beat enemies faster and better than You do. Wait I know answer. You don't care about losers who cheat, as they spoil their own fun. So why do You care about people using RM AH?
Unless You'd play hardcore PvP, then I guess yea You'll be influenced by it, but regardless whether Blizz would allow or fight RMT You'd have to live with it and either join it or play with bad gear (if You want to have a real life that is).
I just can't get people being so outraged by this idea. Unless You are hardcore I see no way this can ever negatively influence You. You just have option to sell items You don't want for cash. Pure win.
If prices do skyrocket, you will probably see a reduction in sales and the prices will in turn come down. Laws of supply and demand. Sure it's not quite that black and white, but the point is fairly simple.
The RMT AH is completely optional, and those who wish to participate may. It's no different than ebay, craigslist, etc. The only thing different is that Blizzard gets a little taste of the sale.
Yes, there will be people who will be able to make a living off this, and there will be people who spend too much, but we are all ultimately responsible for our own actions.
The only real issue is the potential for tax law to get involved, since these virtual items will now have a real world value in terms of cash. You might see the advent of sales tax based upon the zip code of your credit card, or location.
i see alot of crying in here and ppl sayin no thanks blizzard. how about just find the items yaself aye. no one is forcing you to buy any items with real money. 'oh no someone whill have a better item then me cause they paid with real money waaaah' stfu and just get better at pvp. gear rarely = win. no wait.. dont play the game that way i wont have to deal with all the babies why cry about anything that doesnt work for them
I dont know about you guys.But i have played Diablo 2 for over 4 years.I really loved the item trading between players,especially when they were wiping the ladders and all the dupes and shit were gone.
Now,i cant see a reason for players using this old system. Lets say a guy finds a rare Windforce ( in the old days it was worth a full inventory of soj's), will he put it up for sale in the cash AH? I bet my ass he will.
Now i am the amazon that needs that Windforce to significantly increase my dmg in the PVP ladder arena. I am off farming for gear with my mates.But i am not lucky and i dont manage to get that Windforce dropped for me.Instead i get a shaco,an ist rune and whatever else i don't really need for pvping.It would be extremely cool for me to spend my time in trade channels and trade games to find a trader with a windforce (I was spending 3-6 hours a day trading back then in diablo 2 and i enjoyed it).
But instead the guy that was able to trade that windforce with me, decided to put it up in the cash AH.Then i have to sell all the stuff i dont need in the AH, so i can get the money to buy the Windforce from that player. So in the end, why at all waste my time to farm that item or other items in that matter,when i can simply click on the AH spend 50 Euros and buy that item instantly?
Where is the fun in that?It just takes away hours and hours of playtime for me.And hurts the wallet for a lot of players if they want to stay competitive in pvp at least.It completely kills a great aspect that diablo2 had,the item vs item trade system.I would still be playing diablo2 if it wasnt for the dupes and hacks that completely destroyed the trading system eventually.
You should know that there will be a ladder pvp system in D3.Thats how it becomes pay to win.And just imagine playing in hardcore mode and losing your character to a guy that just spent 200$ in the AH.How would that make you feel?
It just ruins the integrity of the game not to mention it is a pay to win game now. At one time people played Diablo for the lov eof the game, now they will play for the love of money. Greed, it's bad.
So lets say we face each other in a pvp 2v2 arena match.We are all good players have our own worked out strategies and you lose because i had an inventory full of 20 life small charms that i bought with 300$ just yesterday.How does that make you feel? I mean i had only 800 hp more than you because i spent 300$,match ends im left with 400 hp. How do you feel about that?
I agree with you completely, but I have to ask.. are you sure you know what Communism is?
And I wish you wouldn't. Stick with MMOs. If I wanted D3 info, I wouldn't be here because it's not a MMORPG. If you branch out, people who are looking for MMO-only information will be looking elsewhere. I sure will.
Nothing. The game is over, and I either try again, do something else or log out.
Try another scenario. We both are warriors, you have been playing for 10 more hours a day, so when we duel, we have the same hp but you have 243 skills in sword, while I only have 25, so you win. Should I be happier than the scenario you mentioned?
For me its just the same. I want someone to duel, I duel, I lost. That is it.
I just found out about hardcore mode not having RMAH. But you should also know that there be a competetive pvp Arena in this game.So you can still pay to win against other players.
http://us.blizzard.com/diablo3/world/systems/pvp.xml
Sidetracking, you will get a different answer from Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao ... . So it depends on who you ask.
Well, you might not be a competitive pvp player in the first place then.You dont mind being stuck in the low pvp rating,because u just lost to people with big e-wallets.So why do you keep arguing about it not being paytowin when you dont even care about it?
Edit: You also didnt understand what i was saying.I sayed imagine that we share identical playing skills and strategies and we are all good players.Why should my 300$ make a difference in the outcome of the match?
You scenario seems to be a fair outcome though.The player that had the more practice and played more is better than you.Whats your point here?
A true confident player will take all odds and weather it, and not blame his defeat on any excuse.
Those who whine and cry foul after being defeat and yet try to put up a face as hardcore gamers are really pathetic. You play, you lose. Try again next time.
In the real world, the country with more money to spend on its army will likely command an army with better odds to win. Can Iraq blame its defeat in the desert war on the US GDP, does it matter? Defeat is defeat, swallow it and keep trying.
Going with something because you hear it's the way makes you, nothing more then sheep.
Going with something because you believe it's the way makes you, nothing more then yourself.
Peace out, imo this forum needs closed...
You make no sense.And you dont get the point. And your example here is completely inacurate.This is a game.If i want to compete with other players,i would like it to be in fair ways.Doesnt matter if my enemy is better or worse.
Do athletes that lose a gold medal to a milisec by a drugged player feel happy about it? I dont think so.Its the same here.People should not get stronger in game, by using $$$$.