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SWTOR you break my heart :(
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Way to overreact.
I am sure a lot would love: Black, Asian, Latin, Arabian, Oceanic, Native American etc... romance options but they are not there either. Thanks god people have common sense and we don't call Bioware, LA or EA racists.
Keep in mind that homosexual content is still rated R (or 18+) on a lot of first world countries, yes even something as innocent as a romance. Leaving aside permissions and distribution problems part of that population won't touch, or buy to their children, a product with homosexual content on it. After all the $ invested in SWTOR they want to grab audience, not limit themselves.
Originally posted by ktanner3:
This was a business decision and people need to stop taking decisions like this so personally.
Why? If they (Bio, Lucas, EA, et al) announced "There will be no white people in the game." would you take it personally?
Or better yet, they said "While we will allow for white males in the game, they will not have as many or as varied options as every one else. We went to a lot of hard work and expense to put some of these features in, but we weren't comfortable giving these options to white men."
That might make you stop and question things.
For anyone who has never seen the South Park episode with the Wheel of Fortune and the "N" word, I highly suggest it. To sum it up, in the end Stan realizes he really has NO IDEA what it feels like or means to be discriminated against, that he will never understand it, and basically he needs to stop pretending he ever can and just try to be a friend.
Those of us who aren't gay have NO idea what it's like to have it thrown in your face every day, to be constantly bombarded with negative images ALL the time. Complaining there are too many gays on TV? How many of them are portrayed as thoughtful intelligent people who provide more than comic relief for straight women who make up the majority of viewers of these kinds of shows? Let's just put them in blackface and see if we can be any more offensive.
Offensive business decisions are made ALL the time, why should those people being offended NOT take it personally? Why should they NOT try to be heard? Why should they NOT try to make a change?
They just opened the MLK Memorial Park in D.C. It's only about 40 years later than it should have been, proof that America doesn't move too quickly when it comes to those we consider 2nd class citizens.
1. All of you, trying to illuminate those who you think are ignorant or decieved, are wasting your time. Homophobes won't stop being homophobes just because they read a post in a forum. Gay people won't stop being gay just because some post says that it's unnatural and disgusting. And so on.
2. Bioware won't change the game no matter what the outcome of this "battle" is.
3. Whether people is gay or straight by genetics or environment, is only a factor if you're trying to use it to justify or condemn homosexuality. If you condemn homosexuality, you will still think that way no matter what sience proves or disproves. If you don't, it shouldn't matter either because if it's not a disease/problem/handicap, its "cause" should be as immaterial as what causes you have the eye color that you have.
Then again, I guess that by posting this I'm guily of nº1.
They shouldnt take it personal because its a story choice in a game. why cant u get that. This isnt a indication of biowares attitude towards homosexuals it was a choice in a story in a game.
Im reading sleeping beauty by anne rice it has gay relationships and repe and submission and all that in it. I have read star wars books and guess what while they touch on romance u never see the sex or any of that.
U may see the relationship play out but sex as a whole isnt even part of the universe. I have read anne mccaffrey dragon riders books and they have both gay and straight relationships. I have read other anne mccaffrey books also where its only straight romances in them.
The point is not all stories call for homosexual options or have gays in them. The tor universe at this tiem is one of them. maybe bioware when doing the story for characters they created to play with u didnt think any of them were gay.
Maybe when they were done creating there characters tht u get to play with they just didnt see any of them as being homosexual. It wasnt a choice to offend or there opinion on gays it was just a story choice.
That is why u shouldnt get offended. HOw many mexians, asians, and other minorities have u see in star wars movies. Even african americans are scarce u have mace windu and lando calrissean. So diversity isnt exactly a star wars staple
That said its a choice in a story that only shows up in the first point if u make the right choices to have it show up prior to actualy getting to the romance part. The truth is its probably a 5 pct chance u get that choice. I could be wrong and its a 75 pct chance but still its not 100 pct certain u will even have a romance choice at all. There is a chance but its not a gauranteed chance of romance.
So why get upset u can still roleplay it and bioware has stated they may add the choice after launch. So why get your panties in a bunch over a story decision in a game.
No, provided that it makes sense in the context of the game. For example, if the game takes place in medieval China, there should not be any white people. If it takes place in England and there are no white people then yeah that's probably racist lol
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Okay so this is a STREEEETCH. BW did NOT say "we aren't comfortable adding gay characters." They just said they won't be in at release. Given the fact that BW has had PLENTY of games with gay characters in it makes me think that they aren't sqeaumish about putting gay chars in a game.
Finally, about the whole South Park thing where you can't know what offends someone...duh of course, everyone is unique. This does not mean that you should be start bowing and scraping once someone says they are offended though.
People are going to be offended all the time, and oftentimes different people will be offended no matter WHAT you do. For example, if you include gay relationships, then close minded people who think homosexuality is an abomination will be offended. Does this mean you should kowtow to their demands? NO!
In the end, cooler heads should prevail. And trying to think about this logically, I'm really not seeing how not including gay relationships is somehow anti-gay. Anti-gay would be if they deliberately tried to make gay people look bad.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
If you want people buying it for their children, why include romance options at all? That would seem to be bordering on illegal if not imoral, encouraging minors to engage in and explore sexuality.
Also, in what 1st world countries is homosexual romance rated R? We put it on TV, Britain puts it on TV, most of the EU puts it on TV. What's left that's 1st world? Japan? Ok, I have no idea what they do with it. Australia? Again no idea, but I'm guessing it's on TV there too. There is no country in South America or Africa that is considered 1st World, most of Asia isn't either.
I agree that this is a money issue to the companies involved and not a moral one, I honestly believe if they felt there was more money in HAVING same sex romances they would be in. That doesn't make it right though, and it won't make those offended by their choice to include it for some but not all.
I still boggle at the choice to have an romance in at all.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
"Elikal said: on http://gaygamer.net/2011/08/star_wars_the_old_old_republic.html
We need to make a strong statement here. As much as it made my heart bleed, because I loved the game, I canceled my preorder and I will boycott the game.
August 22, 2011 3:54 PM"
So is this about an agenda now???
I dont think we share the exact same "problem" but I definately feel what you're saying. It's nothing to quit online games alltogether though. Talking of games, and even though you know this... Sometimes it's a bit of work, but just dig up a guild that suits you and all the special features and perks you might bring into it. My cure was, in the game I've mostly played, simply to find a guild that did not have members under the age of 25, well it did have few who were very nice and awesome. The guild kind of eliminated the group that is attacking those two guys, ofcourse I need to shut down all the general chats and stuff, but after that you'll find peace and can enjoy your self
Believe me there's a guild for every person out there, well you ofcourse know this already but let me remind you, there are quiet guilds, noisy guilds, mature guilds, young guilds, rainbow guilds, just generally tolerant guilds and so on, or the mix of many.
Internet and forums in general? It is likely that the internet was designed in hell, it's a nasty place full of wicked creatures, and paying attention to everyone and everything in it can easily drive you insane o_o
Edit: Uh, yes, I cant help with in-game stuff and content, there's not much to do about the stories unless with roleplaying ;(
Hope to see you at launch
I guess I am in the minority. I think its silly to have 'relationships' in MMOs. You enter the game, you do a little killing, maybe some crafting, have a few laughs with mates and your out. Next day... wipe, rinse, repeat. The only games that seem to have a place for this type of thing are those MMOs which are more like social clubs for introverts online.
Whether they want gay players in their games, I think this is also a silly idea. They want all of the players they can get. Whether to include same sex relationships is purely a business one. Does the benefit of having this outweigh the potential negative feedback/controversy if they add it. Support gay marriage, don't support it, makes no difference. The simple fact is it causes controversy and thats generally bad for business. I don't hold EA/Bioware or any other company in low regard because they don't want to get embroiled in a societal quagmire.
I self identify as a monkey.
Okay so this is a STREEEETCH. BW did NOT say "we aren't comfortable adding gay characters." They just said they won't be in at release. Given the fact that BW has had PLENTY of games with gay characters in it makes me think that they aren't sqeaumish about putting gay chars in a game.
Finally, about the whole South Park thing where you can't know what offends someone...duh of course, everyone is unique. This does not mean that you should be start bowing and scraping once someone says they are offended though.
People are going to be offended all the time, and oftentimes different people will be offended no matter WHAT you do. For example, if you include gay relationships, then close minded people who think homosexuality is an abomination will be offended. Does this mean you should kowtow to their demands? NO!
In the end, cooler heads should prevail. And trying to think about this logically, I'm really not seeing how not including gay relationships is somehow anti-gay. Anti-gay would be if they deliberately tried to make gay people look bad.
You missed about 110% of my point.
I'll make it simpler, yes I know I have a tendency to ramble which is why I so rarely bother to post.
If you are offended by this choice of BW-LA-EA, you have every right to take it personally. The same way all the narrow minded folks complained when the gay stuff in Dragon Age came out.
This will change nothing, BW-LA-EA have made their choice, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't bring it up if it offends you.
My example wasn't a stretch, let's keep it in the SW Universe which is chocked full of white people and has at least 2 black ones, it only sounds like a stretch because we white folks are so used to being the center of everything.
Yes, there will always be people who are offended, many of them for the wrong reasons, some so offended that the 101st Airborne Division has to be called in so children can go to school. An extreme case I admit, but one in which the majority those offended in Arkansas where clearly wrong.
As I'm rambling, I'll sum it up like this.
If a previously progressive company starts moving backwards in the name of bigger profit and this offends you, be offended, make it known. The side that opposes and even hates you never cease to make it known when they are offended.
If you are so regularly treated as a second class citizen that it is simply accepted as normal by the majority, it is not over reacting to try and change it. To point out that it isn't right. It's the only way it will ever be changed.
I wouldn't take the OP seriously, he has quit this game multiple times but apparently he can't quit it. Even if they allowed it what would the companion quests be, decorate your ship? become a woman's huttball coach? I kid I kid
In Bioware we trust!
Normally, this might be an odd issue to focus on, if it were just about any other developer, but its like a lot of people don't know Bioware's history, or just insist on ignoring it. It is in the context of Bioware's previous games that makes this such an issue, and the fact that they are sticking to their formula of including NPC romances in the game.
They can't just say it was an oversight, or anything benign like that. This is a blatant step backwards for Bioware, which comes off as much more overtly "anti-gay" and I think that's what's got people all up in arms about it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Left a message there. Canceled my preorder when I saw the GW2 vids from Games Con.
I may not be in the same "we" as you refer to, but I'd like to point out that "we" - as in EVERYONE on earth, "does not exist in star wars". None of us exist there. It's a fictional world, with fictional characters, fictional rules and fictional social norms.
You are playing a set fictional character with a set fictional personality (or choice of a couple of personalities) and set preferences. It's like watching a movie - the character's preferences are not up to you, you're just there to watch what the character does.
I may be of a certain gender or race or social standing that isn't available in SWTOR, but that makes absolutely no difference. the point is NOT to play yourself, the point is to play a fictional character. That is why it is called a Roleplaying Game. There is no option to play someone that is Jamaican or vegeterian or likes puppies or is pro-choice or votes republican or cheers for the Dallas Cowbows. All these things belong here on earth with our real life selves. In SWTOR, you have a choice of 8 characters with 8 personalities and 8 stories, you do not have the option of creating a digital version of yourself. That is NOT the point of the game.
Would it be cool if there were a game that let people do that? Sure. Would it be cool if you could be vegetarian or catholic or physically handicapped or blind? Well, perhaps "cool" is not the right word, but it would be interesting for the sake of realism. But that is not what SWTOR is going for. SWTOR is here to tell you the heroic stories of these 8 characters. And these 8 characters have their own personalities and likes. You - of all people - should be more accepting of the fact that not everyone is the same, not everyone is like you. For example, these characters are not.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
You are playing a set fictional character with a set fictional personality (or choice of a couple of personalities) and set preferences. It's like watching a movie - the character's preferences are not up to you, you're just there to watch what the character does.
I may be of a certain gender or race or social standing that isn't available in SWTOR, but that makes absolutely no difference. the point is NOT to play yourself, the point is to play a fictional character. That is why it is called a Roleplaying Game. There is no option to play someone that is Jamaican or vegeterian or likes puppies or is pro-choice or votes republican or cheers for the Dallas Cowbows. All these things belong here on earth with our real life selves. In SWTOR, you have a choice of 8 characters with 8 personalities and 8 stories, you do not have the option of creating a digital version of yourself. That is NOT the point of the game.
Would it be cool if there were a game that let people do that? Sure. Would it be cool if you could be vegetarian or catholic or physically handicapped or blind? Well, perhaps "cool" is not the right word, but it would be interesting for the sake of realism. But that is not what SWTOR is going for. SWTOR is here to tell you the heroic stories of these 8 characters. And these 8 characters have their own personalities and likes. You - of all people - should be more accepting of the fact that not everyone is the same, not everyone is like you. For example, these characters are not.
EXACTLY! You can play any of 8 fictional people, having fictional lives, having fictional HETEROSEXUAL relationships (assuming that alien your sleeping with has a gender at all), even if in the real world you're a minor or a registered sex offender, or married.
SO many ways to escape reality. Just. Not. Yours.
How high of a dice roll would it take to block a penis thrust?
It's the same old repeated dichotomy:
profit vs. conscience.
BioWare has shown they value conscience in their business decisions in the past with their platform games, but decided the scale of their current game was too risky to value conscience. It's pretty sad. It won't stop me from playing the game but it is tragic to witness a reversion back to profit-oriented values rather than conscience-including values just because of the scale of a game.
He wishes he knew how to quit SWTOR
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Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Concience? That implies that adding such a feature is a good and righteous thing to do. There are those who would debate that you know. Are you so certain that it would be morally superior to have done so? I'm not.
I'm not trying to start a morality debate here, but I just want to point out that there are alternate moral views on the subject.
I think Bioware's track record is a separate issue entirely. It probably just fell to deductive reasoning. Much in the same way the choice to not include cross faction global chat was decided. How would players approach this on a global scale, and would there be issues pertaining to it.?
Not to mention how much they felt the subject matter (Star Wars) needed more than what they added as far as romance goes. Just because a company offers such a choice in their own IP doesn't mean they should approach another Ip in the same manner.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
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It's a f*cking video game for christ sake... a VIDEO GAME! I feel absolutely retarded even having to mention that...
What you do in the bed room is up to you.
If this MMO is not simulating your bed room fantasy and it's the end of the world for you. Do us all a favour. Don't play.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
You DIDN'T HAVE to, you CHOSE to. If you don't know the difference you might just BE what you said.
Hey you guys are free to bring up whatever offends you, it's a free internet after all
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On the same token, I can express my opinion that you're overreacting or misinterpreting something.
Basically, you feel that BW not including gay relationships somehow matters. I don't. I completely support gay marriage because I believe that's important and it really matters.
With BW and SWTOR though....it seems like you and some others believe that just because BW had gay relationships in some other games, then they are beholden to you to put gay relationships in ALL their games. And if they don't, then it's some kind of slight.
I just don't see this.
Basically...here's my viewpoint. I'm generally pro-gay. I think everyone should be treated equally so long as their actions don't harm anyone else. But I get annoyed when people from any minority get overly sensitive about something that probably doesn't matter, or start to interpret the most minor of things as being racist, sexist, anti-gay, etc.
It's unreasonable. And I feel like it puts undue demands on other people. Do we really need a "token" gay guy in SWTOR? It's kind of dumb.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?