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SWTOR you break my heart :(
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I think its stupid that they dont allow it.
You can be with an alien but you cannot be with the same gender? I do not agree, its ridiculous.
Im straight but angry at it. Where is our freedom of choice? Its private its not like its a parade.
That isnt the Bioware i know, its Bioware-for-kids.
Star Wars has always been a franchise for kis, ALWAYS! It just so happens that adults love it too. There's nothing wrong with that you know.
Rate T for Teen n00b..you know the faceroll is coming. QQ more. My l33t guild is going to PWN you. Go back to WoW.
I didn't mean to insult/offend, but oh well, you gotta love this board full of LULZ !!
Like seriously, you really need to find a new hobby
It's also a social environment for thousands of people, and right now there's mechanics in the game that sort of favours group A and ignores group B, so some of the group B members are upset for being treated like air.
Their inclusion of same gendered romance in previous games is a display of their ethical standard. Their posts on the forums battling homophobia and discrimination is an ethical standard. Not having it in a larger-scaled game with more risk and investment money attached implies to many that BW values profit over their own ethical standard when a certain threshold of money is involed (which is debatable).
What's interesting to me is BioWare has made many statements and business decisions regarding their ethics, and I would argue (citing these decisions and their posts) they know adding it is the right thing to do, yet weighted against business choices they have elected not to add it.
This is about continuing and honoring their own ethical standards, not necessarily mine. Their developers post about discrimination being wrong, but then discriminate.
What's no surprise to me (no offense) is that I had to elaborate to make it clear we're discussing their ethics.
OP, sometimes, I wonder what people are wanting from their games and their stories. All too often the answer appears to be some sort of validation, some form of idealistic synergy, to help them feel good about themselves as a vicarious participant. Maybe you are looking for the wrong sort of validation from a Star Wars game where it really boils down to an action tale of good vs. evil played out with swords and the romances are just window dressing for a cheesy kiss so the typical nerd can pretend to get laid after vanquishing their enemies or in Bioware's case a really cheesy cut scene to get whomever that wierd prude is at CNN to to start an article and get people talking about nothing for the free advertisement.
I mean if the day comes when I am playing HALO and suddenly I am made to stop in mid gunplay action to choose if the Chief gets it on with his big, beefy, black, seargent later or that hot leggy naval pilot then I am liable to look for another hobby as that story just aint what i want from HALO!
And maybe not Star Wars either...
I don't mind romance stories in game but its just not the most crucial component of the story and i'm not going to throw a fit if options are not to my liking and make accusations of bigotry or intolerance.
Seriously, if it bothers you that bad, hook up with a like minded pal on a role-play server and make your personal story as gay as you want. At least your hooking up with a human being that way rather than a set of pixels that talk nice toward you once in a while.
Shame I can't find a hot computer babe that wants to be tied and played in my Star Wars game. Man, I am gonna go protest.
The NPC romance part of the game has absolutely 0 to do with the social aspect. It is completely single player. There is nothing stopping you from have a gay relationship with another PC. It's not like BW banned being gay. Heck, they may even add a gay relationship in an expansion and I would support this.
Also...since when do games have to represent every single demographic? There are plenty of games where you have MUCH less choice than SWTOR offers you. For example, in many SPRPGs you play a pre-determined character and that's it.
You're acting like BW has turned its back on you just because a single game doesn't have a gay relationship.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
SWTOR includes romance as a gameplay feature. But, intentionally, not same-gendered romance.
Reflect on that and you'll start understanding why people are upset. Everything else is irrelevant.
A gameplay feature is intentionally limited, and that intention is interpreted as discrimination and removal of risk.
I've reflected on it. I still think people are overreacting.
Look at the Witcher 2. Where are your same sex relationships there? What about Final Fantasy games or other JRPGs?
AFAIK, BW is the only real company to heavily support same sex relationships, and I think that's great. But you seem to think that now they have to put same sex relationships in their games, they have to have it in EVERY game. Why??? Be happy that they are open minded enough to include them at all. In my opinion they have done a great service to the gay community in gaming, and now they are being lambasted for it.
Now I could fully understand someone being bummed out about no gay relationships because they enjoyed the feature in other games. That's fine. But the melodramatic posts in this thread acting as if BW has somehow sacrificed its ethics are ridiculous. It's just a feature. BW is not anti-gay just because they don't have a gay relationship in SWTOR.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
SW;TOR is aimed to cater to the 12+ age group, to do as you suggest, they would effectively have to exclude those younger than 15+ (16+ in USA) so its not really a moral choice they have made, and before this whole crazy discrimination theme gets too far out of hand, exactly what other MMO's allow this to happen with NPC's .... ... ... you guessed it.. 0.. i think too many people are being thin skinned about this, as it doesnt affect player interraction in any way.
That's their decision to make and it doesn't have to be about discrimination that they made that decision.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
quote:
Basically, you feel that BW not including gay relationships somehow matters. I don't. I completely support gay marriage because I believe that's important and it really matters.
With BW and SWTOR though....it seems like you and some others believe that just because BW had gay relationships in some other games, then they are beholden to you to put gay relationships in ALL their games. And if they don't, then it's some kind of slight.
I just don't see this.
Basically...here's my viewpoint. I'm generally pro-gay. I think everyone should be treated equally so long as their actions don't harm anyone else. But I get annoyed when people from any minority get overly sensitive about something that probably doesn't matter, or start to interpret the most minor of things as being racist, sexist, anti-gay, etc.
It's unreasonable. And I feel like it puts undue demands on other people. Do we really need a "token" gay guy in SWTOR? It's kind of dumb.
response:
I believe BW including ANY romantic relationships is stupid and a waste of time/effort, but they choose to put them in. Frankly I don't see the point. It makes even less sense in an MMO than a single player game and even there it just annoys me. And I don't think any of us know how these romances are going to play out, I'm guessing hardly at all if the want a T rating.
I also don't believe BioWare is beholden to anyone based on past games... but THEY certainly talk up their past games when promoting the new ones. I ca understand how a community that thought they had an ally in BioWare would feel betrayed and decide to NOT give them their money, and even choose to be vocal about it. The Corporate choice here is 100% about money so I don't see why consumers who disagree with them should have any issue witholding it.
So if we as a country make such a HUGE deal about sexual identity, and if you don't think we do just spend a few hours switching cable channels from news to faux news to entertainment, how is it overly sensitive when YOURS is treated the way it is to be annoyed about something like this? How is that unreasonable?
And how, oh how, does wanting to be treated as an equal put undue demands on anyone? You know, in the state I live in it is illegal to discriminate against anyone based on a physical disability and companies over a certain size are expected to pay to provide facilites for disabled workers. But it's legal to fire a gay guy on the spot if it bothers the owners that he's gay, which probably sounds OK since the gay guy would just over react anyway.
Who does it hurt if BW had same gender romance in the game? The LDS mom who will never play or buy it anyway?
Who does it help having it in the game? The lonely teen who gets to see he's maybe not such a dirty sinning freak after all, in spite of what he may have read in the mmorpg forums?
Again, as I've said, I don't care. I think ALL romances in the game are stupid and at this point GW2 will have to massively fail for me to even consider playing SWTOR. I don't think the game will get subscribers BECAUSE they chose to not include this in the game, but I'm pretty sure they will NOT have subscribers because they chose not to.
Also, your use of the phase "It's kinda dumb" sums up how I feel and have felt about Star Wars since RotJ was first released.
No one is saying it isn't up to them. It is their game. But you have to ask yourself why would a developer limit romance in this game to heterosexuals only?
You can come up with a lot of non-discriminatory reasons: budget, work involved, etc,
You can also come up with many discriminatory reasons: investor risk, profit risk, rating risk, risk of offense to heterosexual gamers and gamer critics.
It is entirely debatable. A lot of us believe because of their precedent (same gendered romance in other games and their vocal anti-discriminatory devs) that it was a business decision because of the scope of the game. And that decision makes them descriminatory for the intent of profit and risk removal.
It's also a social environment for thousands of people, and right now there's mechanics in the game that sort of favours group A and ignores group B, so some of the group B members are upset for being treated like air.
I hate you- you write in one sentence what it takes me a page to write and no one else understands. =p
Anyone who tries to measure someone else's love by their own standards is a fool, regardless of your orientation.
That having been said, from a purely logistical standpoint, doing twice the programming and voice-over work for the benefit of what is almost certainly less than 15% of your player population is probably a bad design decision.
Quite honestly im sick to death of seeing the stereotypical heterosexual viewpoint in ever aspect of every single thing in existence including movies, games, billboards, philosophys, ideaoligys, etc..etc..etc..this only adds fuel to the overwemling sun hot fire.
Besides, star wars is a diverse convoluted world of thousands of different types of peoples, in all them peoples you cant tell me there isnt some type of homosexual content.
1.) I replied to a guy who said this is "a f*ucking video game" that it's actually a social environment, you know, social environment vs. just a game. Since you assumed I claimed it had to do with social aspect I might aswell add it here: The romancing options does have social aspect in form of people discussing about what they have done in the singleplayer side of the game, where the gay people are the only group who can say "Oh romancing? There's nothing for me in there so I have nothing to talk about" where the hetero people have possibly a lot to talk about or crack jokes or whatever, they have more content and are catered on a wider scale.
2.) I didnt say games should represent every single demographics. I just stated that the game currently caters to one group and ignores the other, re-read what I said and you'll notice. Anyway, what the heck does other games have to do with anything in this topic? We are talking about SWTOR and a particular feature of it, I could be a player who does not give a flying rats ass about any other game on the planet.
3.) No I'm not, I'm just stating what this game is, and what this feature is doing currently, against a claim that this "is a f*ucking game" and that's all.
I'm not even a gay, I dont need a gay feature in this game, I'm not defending such a feature or cheering the current feature, I'm just explaining the big picture against someones narrow and black n' white point of view, because I accept people who are not like me such as they come, and I can put my self in their position.
I guess you wouldnt care then if this game had only gay romancing option, because it's just a game and does not have to represent every demographics out there, but many other would care.
When you put it like that....
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Well it wouldn't be 2x as much dialogue considering one character would remain the same. It would be 1/2 as much.
And they provided it in other games. I don't think that's the reason BW considered it a bad business decision. Like I said previously, it's just much more risky (in terms of profitiablity) on a game of this scale (which is majorly unfortunate).
It would be far less than twice. The voice overs don't need to change at all as I doubt there are gender specific reference in the romance dialogs, and if there are any cut scenes involving the player and it's actually suppose to look like the player, I'm sure those are done on the fly. Unless you think they are pre-rendering every possible look a player can have.
Heheh...that brings a whole new meaning to "PvP"
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Why bother wasting the time or money to write the necessary code and record the necessary Voice Overs when the demographic they are "catering" to is 90-93% of the population (varies slightly based on which study you read)? From a strictly financial standpoint it is useless, maybe even damaging since there are a lot of parents out there that will allow there kids to play this game as is, but would not with homosexual content.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
You can read any story on yahoo that deals with this subject, there are an overwelming number of nieve replys from people that say the same thing. Were always shoving something or another into someone elses morality or what ever the sercumstances maybee and its always the heteros that complain about it to.
If you cant deal with the fact that someone that lives a life stlye sticks up for them selves in a thread like this that deals with who they are and what they stand for then you shouldnt be here arguing it.
oh for god sake, ill reflect on the fact its a star wars game, and the fact that there are thousands of games that have romance in their storylines, but omg no gay romance. That doesnt mean every one of those game develoeprs are'gay' haters. Next there will be complaints that there is not kosher food, or nudist beaches, or support for people who like bondage and dress up as babies. Some people need to get a grip on themeselves and go relax if they are winding themeselves up with this stuff - this is the wrong context, it aint real life.
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