I don't remember if I already responded in this thread, but if I did, I probably just said this same thing:
I'm not giving Blizzard ONE MORE PENNY of my money. Not one.
I enjoyed Torchlight and I'm sure I'll enjoy T2 as well. If nothing else, it's the same satisfaction that I get from NOT shopping at Walmart and looking for American made items where I DO shop. I feel the same sort of way about Blizzard really. They don't need my money, and I feel better not giving it to them. Blizzard may not have underaged Chinese children making their product, but I still can't support them, for other reasons. Just my own personal thing. My money....my decisions.
I may play this game just because it isn't Diablo 3. I refuse to have every game turned into a Facebook game... and we all know that's Battle.net's goal.
I'm finding all you D3 fans pulling the "you don't have to use the RMAH you noobs, so stop bitching about it!!1" argument. Now let me carefully explain to you how much of a tiger bomb this is going to put on this games nuts regardless. (Tropic Thunder line, Danny Mcbride ftw!)
2 different auction houses, 1 for gold, 1 for real money. Real money is optional (and costly) while the gold one is presumably going to come with the game.
Now what happens when you can pretty much buy infinite gold off of the RMAH with real money? It makes the regular gold auction house completely USELESS! Because the gold prices on that auction house will be so incredibly inflated from the people who are dumping large amounts of cash in the game, that the people who are choosing not to use it, can't use either one of them now.
This effectively forces any competitive player to have to use the RMAH in order to stay on par with the crazies that are dumping money into the RMAH...probably koreans.
And casual players might as well write off both auction houses because they are going to be so inflated by the hardcore that it won't be practical to use either. Which means they aren't getting a huge chunk of the game because they either have morals and won't contribute to the debauchery that is the RMAH, or that they just can't afford it.
And you need to use the auction house why? To even get the items in the first place, someone had to do the content that you can do. It's not like buy2win cash shop. Someone had to put them there, and you can get them normally by playing.
Does D3 not have random drops now? From what I remember of D2, if you wanted to have a decent chance at finding a high quality item, especially if you were filling a set, you'd trade for it. Is this not what the AH is supposed to be for? But unlike D2 where you had to trade with items found only in-game, either gold or gear, the good stuff is now going to be sold for real money. So whether you want to or not, you can expect that the trading we used to do will now equate to paying for it with actual cash. If you don't like it, your only choice is to not participate in it and accept that the only gear you will get is what you get in your drops. What was the SOJ drop rate from D2 again?
It's basically pay up or grind your ass off farming for decent gear and hope that you get lucky. You know, some people will NEVER get lucky. Ka-ching! Another slice of the pie coming Blizzard's way.
But I could be completely wrong. If there are set places in the game to acquire all the different pieces of gear and drops aren't totally and mercilessly random, then yes, you can just go get the stuff yourself by playing. Is that how it works now in D3?
I'm finding all you D3 fans pulling the "you don't have to use the RMAH you noobs, so stop bitching about it!!1" argument. Now let me carefully explain to you how much of a tiger bomb this is going to put on this games nuts regardless. (Tropic Thunder line, Danny Mcbride ftw!)
2 different auction houses, 1 for gold, 1 for real money. Real money is optional (and costly) while the gold one is presumably going to come with the game.
Now what happens when you can pretty much buy infinite gold off of the RMAH with real money? It makes the regular gold auction house completely USELESS! Because the gold prices on that auction house will be so incredibly inflated from the people who are dumping large amounts of cash in the game, that the people who are choosing not to use it, can't use either one of them now.
This effectively forces any competitive player to have to use the RMAH in order to stay on par with the crazies that are dumping money into the RMAH...probably koreans.
And casual players might as well write off both auction houses because they are going to be so inflated by the hardcore that it won't be practical to use either. Which means they aren't getting a huge chunk of the game because they either have morals and won't contribute to the debauchery that is the RMAH, or that they just can't afford it.
And you need to use the auction house why? To even get the items in the first place, someone had to do the content that you can do. It's not like buy2win cash shop. Someone had to put them there, and you can get them normally by playing.
Does D3 not have random drops now? From what I remember of D2, if you wanted to have a decent chance at finding a high quality item, especially if you were filling a set, you'd trade for it. Is this not what the AH is supposed to be for? But unlike D2 where you had to trade with items found only in-game, either gold or gear, the good stuff is now going to be sold for real money. So whether you want to or not, you can expect that the trading we used to do will now equate to paying for it with actual cash. If you don't like it, your only choice is to not participate in it and accept that the only gear you will get is what you get in your drops. What was the SOJ drop rate from D2 again?
It's basically pay up or grind your ass off farming for decent gear and hope that you get lucky. You know, some people will NEVER get lucky. Ka-ching! Another slice of the pie coming Blizzard's way.
But I could be completely wrong. If there are set places in the game to acquire all the different pieces of gear and drops aren't totally and mercilessly random, then yes, you can just go get the stuff yourself by playing. Is that how it works now in D3?
I think it depends on the difficutly level, there's the new Inferno difficulty http://www.diablowiki.net/Inferno every creature is lvl 61 (max player lvl 60) even in Act 1. So I guess from inferno gear of any type can drop from anything. But come on where is the fun in grinding the same one or two boss that we did in D2?
As to players only chosing to sell top end gear on RMHA whats the difference? in D2 players could sell the gear on ebay for real cash or choose to trade ingame for gold. Gold is still needed for crafting and so on so players will still be trading for gold. There's still going to be a mix of gold and cash trades.
IF I was Blizzard with a RMAH in the works.... I think I would "seed" the AH with items that would bring in more money. Afterall, other people will be sellling items in the RMAH why should Blizzard be any different and forgo another source of income?
They have already stated they aren't going to do this. Besides, the listing fees they will make off this is really, really minimal income compared to the money they already make off box sales and WoW subs. I'm sure the fees they make will go into server maintenance for battle.net - which is not just for Diablo 3 but Starcraft 2 as well. And probably also on more game development...I'm fine with both.
Blizzard has also said...
They would never allow character transfers from non-pvp to PvP servers for WoW.
I would like to see the legal document where Blizzard said this would "NEVER" happen, sure a dev might have said we wont do this but do you honestly think he speaks for the whole company? And now the company has to abide by that?
that they feel RMT ruins the spirit of gameplay [WoW].
RMT of pet's does nothing to the spirit of gameplay.
and because of that...
they would never sell ingame [WoW] items for real money.
They don't, pets/mounts cannot be got ingame only in the shop
Yeah... Blizzard has a history of going back on their word, especially when it makes them more money.
Just like any other company, what's you're point?
What I have got from this post is that Blizzard is apparently a shadey criminal organisation who's sole purpose is to make money for Kotick. Well we are all entitled to our own opinions even if they akin to a bad movie plot.
First off Kotick does not own blizzard are make decisions for them and Blizzard is a huge company who's books and dealing are mostly public and those that are not open to their shareholders, so anything dodgy would fast find a way out to the public.
The online requirement has both positive and negatives the only negative being that a tiny vocal minority wont be able to play to the game while traveing, the posiives are cloud saves, reduced bots and hacks, huge community to play with and more. Why should Blizzard design their game for 1% of the player base?
The no modding issue well D1/2 never officaly were moddable? the mods were game file hacks nothing more so blizzard has not taken away anything.
The RMAH an optional tool for those who want to use it, just cus jonny has spent $100 on gear it effects you 0% unless you group with him or meet him the PvP Areans, please note blizzard is not tuning the game for PvP so wether he has bought top end gear or not the fact you lost could be down to many other factors. And one more thing about RMAH some think of this is a cash shop, it's not, a player has to find the item worthy of putting on the RMAH and chose not to break it down, use it himself, save it for an alt or give it to a friend. The small fee blizzard takes for transactions what little is let after paypal takes there cut would go to paying the huge cost it takes to run BNET 2.0 and also keep BNET 1.0 running.
Blizzard have taken a bold move with online requirment and RMAH - considering many think blizzard always play it safe and waits for others to prove a concept before they adopt it this is rather ballsy of them. If anything you should be applauding but because it the big evil blizzard you can't do that cus it aint cool.
Touchlight 2 is not seeling for $20 cus the devs love their players more it's selling for $20 cus that what it's worth and they know it wont sell for $60. Not saying T2 is a bad game but I want to play the real thing (D3) not a quick knock off.
You just need to not talk...like ever....never again. You don't make any sense whatsoever. I'm pretty sure I established the actual consequences of having both online only and the RMAH in a previous post, maybe you should read those.
Also, nobody had anything against Blizzard until they become money grubbing whores, and they made that reputation for themselves. And "applauding" them for liimiting their customers and costing us a fortune?? HA....thats all I'm going to say there.
And Torchlight 2 is 20 dollars because Runic they value their customers opinions and realize that we are in a rather lengthy recession right now and believe that breaking out of the mold of 60 dollar games is good for the company and it's customers. To prove it, look at all the features that T2 is going to have that Blizzard won't...quick knockoff? Riiiiight.
Hey man.. apples are a way better fruit then oranges.
-No way dude! Oranges are better!
Whoa, screw that! Apples!
-Oranges!
Apples!
-Oranges!
Apples!!
-Oranges!!
Apples!!!
-Oranges!!!
.................
Play what you want.. or both seeing as nether have a monthly fee, *gasp*. Yes, you can do it!
This would make sense if the games weren't very very similar to each other. Torchlight 2 was even made by D2 makers. Both dungeon crawlers, both have multiplayer, both have very similar monsters, dungeons, open worlds, and class types.
What would make sense is if two people are arguing which kind of apple is better. Gala, or Fuji...but I think we ALL can agree that Fuji apples are better, I mean come on. :P
Hey man.. apples are a way better fruit then oranges.
-No way dude! Oranges are better!
Whoa, screw that! Apples!
-Oranges!
Apples!
-Oranges!
Apples!!
-Oranges!!
Apples!!!
-Oranges!!!
.................
Play what you want.. or both seeing as nether have a monthly fee, *gasp*. Yes, you can do it!
You completly missed the point of this thread. FIrst, its not comparing apples and oranges they are basically the exact same genre. We arent comparing BF3 to Skyrim.
Second, its not about being able to play both games its a matter of which game is better. Yes I can play both Splinter cell or deus ex, but that doesnt really matter. Why would I want to play an awesome game as well as an inferior game that is just like the awesome game? Why would I not just spend my time on the awesome game?
Once again I see a lot of people that rather choose which developer to /fan, rather than play a good game.
Tisk, tisk.
Im not saying one's better than the other (Ille be playing both), but in my opinion, Runic Games stopped patching Torchlight WAY too soon (As opposed to Blizzard that's still updating Diablo 2). There's still a lot I find missing in it. So Ille have to wait and see how they'lle handle it this time.
I just have to say, for those who like to say, "Torchlight = Diablo with better graphics"
And if you like Diablo, you'll automatically like Torchlight.
I've played Torchlight, and I lost interest very quickly. D2 I was obsessed with for many years and still load it up every once in awhile.
What people fail to see is that... the game being hack'n slash is not necessarily all that makes Diablo 2 what it is.
Diablo 2 has such an awesome art style. Sure, it's old school, but the environments are actually creepy. And it still looks awesome.
Torchlight's dungeons were unoriginal, they all looked the same, and it looked more like WoW than Diablo with its cartoony graphics.
From what I've seen, T2 is same way. Bright, colorful worlds that do not strike me as Diablo-like at all, they're way too sunny and 'pretty'. A lot of the reason why I loved Diablo and D2 was for their gritty, gory atmosphere that just felt dark and grungy.
So maybe I'm the only one who remembers or cares about how good the art style was in D2.
But because of how bright, sunny, cartoony, and just less serious Torchlight looks, both T1 and T2, I will always choose Diablo.
Gameplay is not necessarilly all that makes a game, neither is shiny graphics. Art style goes a long way for me.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
And Torchlight 2 is 20 dollars because Runic they value their customers opinions and realize that we are in a rather lengthy recession right now and believe that breaking out of the mold of 60 dollar games is good for the company and it's customers. To prove it, look at all the features that T2 is going to have that Blizzard won't...quick knockoff? Riiiiight.
I'm not siding with Blizzard or Runic, as I support competition in this genre. However, you're being blind and ignorant if you think a profit-driven company is selling a product at 1/3 the regular retail price solely because they value their customers opinions and to support the recession. That is simply a strategy to pentrate into that slice of the market. To their credit, it is working.
Buy and play a game because you find it enjoyable. The companies behind them are all profit-driven wether you like it or not.
And Torchlight 2 is 20 dollars because Runic they value their customers opinions and realize that we are in a rather lengthy recession right now and believe that breaking out of the mold of 60 dollar games is good for the company and it's customers. To prove it, look at all the features that T2 is going to have that Blizzard won't...quick knockoff? Riiiiight.
I'm not siding with Blizzard or Runic, as I support competition in this genre. However, you're being blind and ignorant if you think a profit-driven company is selling a product at 1/3 the regular retail price solely because they value their customers opinions and to support the recession. That is simply a strategy to pentrate into that slice of the market. To their credit, it is working.
Buy and play a game because you find it enjoyable. The companies behind them are all profit-driven wether you like it or not.
Of course all for profit companies are trying to make profit. But companies are still run by human beings, and don't always act like cold calculating profit machines like many larger companies tend to behave. Runic tends to keep a more open dialogue with their customerbase, and seems to try to build a better customer relationship by going out of their way to make the game more accessible and user friendly -- offline gameplay, LAN supoort, mod support, etc
Blizzard on the other hand, knows that people are going to buy DIablo 3 whether it has expanded functionality or not. They're not trying because they know there is a large number of players that will buy the game simply because it's called Diablo and is made by Blizzard. They can charge $60, and tons of people will still be lining up out the door to buy the game on release date.
Success really does change people, and organizations. Blizzard used to be the company that cared, now they're no better than their other half -- Activision.
And Torchlight 2 is 20 dollars because Runic they value their customers opinions and realize that we are in a rather lengthy recession right now and believe that breaking out of the mold of 60 dollar games is good for the company and it's customers. To prove it, look at all the features that T2 is going to have that Blizzard won't...quick knockoff? Riiiiight.
I'm not siding with Blizzard or Runic, as I support competition in this genre. However, you're being blind and ignorant if you think a profit-driven company is selling a product at 1/3 the regular retail price solely because they value their customers opinions and to support the recession. That is simply a strategy to pentrate into that slice of the market. To their credit, it is working.
Buy and play a game because you find it enjoyable. The companies behind them are all profit-driven wether you like it or not.
Of course all for profit companies are trying to make profit. But companies are still run by human beings, and don't always act like cold calculating profit machines like many larger companies tend to behave. Runic tends to keep a more open dialogue with their customerbase, and seems to try to build a better customer relationship by going out of their way to make the game more accessible and user friendly -- offline gameplay, LAN supoort, mod support, etc
Blizzard on the other hand, knows that people are going to buy DIablo 3 whether it has expanded functionality or not. They're not trying because they know there is a large number of players that will buy the game simply because it's called Diablo and is made by Blizzard. They can charge $60, and tons of people will still be lining up out the door to buy the game on release date.
Success really does change people, and organizations. Blizzard used to be the company that cared, now they're no better than their other half -- Activision.
As someone who grew up as a kid with Warcraft 1 and Diablo 1, I can emphatize with you. On the other hand, I would not call them evil for the shift in their direction. If their perceived "selfish" actions prove to be the start of their downfall, then so be it. My decision to buy games is not tied down by the developer. I may not agree with their decisions - I have a distaste for their online-only DRM and RMAH, but I would still play the game. Despite all the negatives, it still gives off that same vibe I felt back when I first started playing Diablo 1. For me, TL2 is just not there yet. Like I said in an earlier post, I wouldn't even touch TL2 but I will look forward to TL3 .
If I were to compare, Runic is to Arenanet as Torchlight 2 is to Guild Wars 1. These are two companies driving the market forward with these changes. With that, I look forward to Runic creating their own Guild Wars 2.
Blizzards shift in direction is just bad but if they want to go the suits route so be it I will never ever touch a game made by these bastards.
Just look at the game announcements instead of Morhaime they are now done by **** suits like Tippl or Emperor Palpatine Kotick and it shows in the "quality" of their games.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
TL2 for me. I am tired of games companies nickle & diming us to death & the D3 cash shop is just another example of this.
For fuck's sake, there is no cash shop in Diablo 3.
there is its called RMAH
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
TL2 for me. I am tired of games companies nickle & diming us to death & the D3 cash shop is just another example of this.
For fuck's sake, there is no cash shop in Diablo 3.
there is its called RMAH
It's not like this type of thing didn't exist in Diablo 2. It's done legitimately and smartly this time around, and people decide to act surprised/outraged.
Edit: Also, more comprehension please.
The poster I quoted seems to think that with D3 Blizzard will be "nickling and diming" us via the "cash shop" - a concept so false, that it is laughable. Yes, Blizzard will bleed players dry but it will be via plushes, and expensive expacs; not through this "cash shop".
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
TL2 for me. I am tired of games companies nickle & diming us to death & the D3 cash shop is just another example of this.
For fuck's sake, there is no cash shop in Diablo 3.
there is its called RMAH
It's not like this type of thing didn't exist in Diablo 2. It's done legitimately and smartly this time around, and people decide to act surprised/outraged.
well the people who did it also run the risk of stolen accounts and rightfully so, hopefully they've lost all their characters. This RMAH crap is also part of the reason why Blizzard wants everyone online all the time, like it or not thats the truth.
Its about milking a former great franchise.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
TL2 for me. I am tired of games companies nickle & diming us to death & the D3 cash shop is just another example of this.
For fuck's sake, there is no cash shop in Diablo 3.
there is its called RMAH
It's fundamentally different. Not a cash shop at all.
It is a cash shop. The only difference is that blizzard isnt directly selling the profit. Blizzard still gets a cut. Blizzard still hosts the shop. And the stop still has in game items in it. Its a form of cash shop.
TL2 for me. I am tired of games companies nickle & diming us to death & the D3 cash shop is just another example of this.
For fuck's sake, there is no cash shop in Diablo 3.
there is its called RMAH
It's fundamentally different. Not a cash shop at all.
It is a cash shop. The only difference is that blizzard isnt directly selling the profit. Blizzard still gets a cut. Blizzard still hosts the shop. And the stop still has in game items in it. Its a form of cash shop.
You don't have to use RL cash.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
TL2 for me. I am tired of games companies nickle & diming us to death & the D3 cash shop is just another example of this.
For fuck's sake, there is no cash shop in Diablo 3.
there is its called RMAH
It's fundamentally different. Not a cash shop at all.
It is a cash shop. The only difference is that blizzard isnt directly selling the profit. Blizzard still gets a cut. Blizzard still hosts the shop. And the stop still has in game items in it. Its a form of cash shop.
You don't have to use RL cash.
There are F2P games where you can get cash shop stuff with in game money by trading other players. Doesnt mean the game doesnt have a cash shop.
It does not matter if you can use in game money or not, the fact that I someone can pay real money for items makes it a CASH shop.
TL2 for me. I am tired of games companies nickle & diming us to death & the D3 cash shop is just another example of this.
For fuck's sake, there is no cash shop in Diablo 3.
there is its called RMAH
It's fundamentally different. Not a cash shop at all.
It is a cash shop. The only difference is that blizzard isnt directly selling the profit. Blizzard still gets a cut. Blizzard still hosts the shop. And the stop still has in game items in it. Its a form of cash shop.
You don't have to use RL cash.
There are F2P games where you can get cash shop stuff with in game money by trading other players. Doesnt mean the game doesnt have a cash shop.
It does not matter if you can use in game money or not, the fact that I someone can pay real money for items makes it a CASH shop.
Okay, if you want to argue semantics in first-grader he-sad-she-said fashion, then sure you win, it is a CASH shop.
But no, it's definitely not there to exploit the players or harm the game/gameplay in anyway.
To think that is naive. Or maybe the tinfoil hats are jammed too tight.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Okay, if you want to argue semantics in first-grader he-sad-she-said fashion, then sure you win, it is a CASH shop.
But no, it's definitely not there to exploit the players or harm the game/gameplay in anyway.
To think that is naive. Or maybe the tinfoil hats are jammed too tight.
I never said it hurts gameplay too much because I can just choose not to play with those players. But it does exploit those who purchase these items. In D2 players would go through third party to buy these items. Blizzard notices this and decides there is money in it. Now they can make money when someone posts an item, and again when the item is sold. Blizzard is exploiting the players. They could very easily not take nearly as big a cut as they are but instead they will make as much money as they can.
Comments
I don't remember if I already responded in this thread, but if I did, I probably just said this same thing:
I'm not giving Blizzard ONE MORE PENNY of my money. Not one.
I enjoyed Torchlight and I'm sure I'll enjoy T2 as well. If nothing else, it's the same satisfaction that I get from NOT shopping at Walmart and looking for American made items where I DO shop. I feel the same sort of way about Blizzard really. They don't need my money, and I feel better not giving it to them. Blizzard may not have underaged Chinese children making their product, but I still can't support them, for other reasons. Just my own personal thing. My money....my decisions.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I may play this game just because it isn't Diablo 3. I refuse to have every game turned into a Facebook game... and we all know that's Battle.net's goal.
Does D3 not have random drops now? From what I remember of D2, if you wanted to have a decent chance at finding a high quality item, especially if you were filling a set, you'd trade for it. Is this not what the AH is supposed to be for? But unlike D2 where you had to trade with items found only in-game, either gold or gear, the good stuff is now going to be sold for real money. So whether you want to or not, you can expect that the trading we used to do will now equate to paying for it with actual cash. If you don't like it, your only choice is to not participate in it and accept that the only gear you will get is what you get in your drops. What was the SOJ drop rate from D2 again?
It's basically pay up or grind your ass off farming for decent gear and hope that you get lucky. You know, some people will NEVER get lucky. Ka-ching! Another slice of the pie coming Blizzard's way.
But I could be completely wrong. If there are set places in the game to acquire all the different pieces of gear and drops aren't totally and mercilessly random, then yes, you can just go get the stuff yourself by playing. Is that how it works now in D3?
I think it depends on the difficutly level, there's the new Inferno difficulty http://www.diablowiki.net/Inferno every creature is lvl 61 (max player lvl 60) even in Act 1. So I guess from inferno gear of any type can drop from anything. But come on where is the fun in grinding the same one or two boss that we did in D2?
As to players only chosing to sell top end gear on RMHA whats the difference? in D2 players could sell the gear on ebay for real cash or choose to trade ingame for gold. Gold is still needed for crafting and so on so players will still be trading for gold. There's still going to be a mix of gold and cash trades.
You just need to not talk...like ever....never again. You don't make any sense whatsoever. I'm pretty sure I established the actual consequences of having both online only and the RMAH in a previous post, maybe you should read those.
Also, nobody had anything against Blizzard until they become money grubbing whores, and they made that reputation for themselves. And "applauding" them for liimiting their customers and costing us a fortune?? HA....thats all I'm going to say there.
And Torchlight 2 is 20 dollars because Runic they value their customers opinions and realize that we are in a rather lengthy recession right now and believe that breaking out of the mold of 60 dollar games is good for the company and it's customers. To prove it, look at all the features that T2 is going to have that Blizzard won't...quick knockoff? Riiiiight.
Hey man.. apples are a way better fruit then oranges.
-No way dude! Oranges are better!
Whoa, screw that! Apples!
-Oranges!
Apples!
-Oranges!
Apples!!
-Oranges!!
Apples!!!
-Oranges!!!
.................
Play what you want.. or both seeing as nether have a monthly fee, *gasp*. Yes, you can do it!
And still no own forum here on mmorpg.com while inferior diablo3 have own forum here, what money can do bah:(
This would make sense if the games weren't very very similar to each other. Torchlight 2 was even made by D2 makers. Both dungeon crawlers, both have multiplayer, both have very similar monsters, dungeons, open worlds, and class types.
What would make sense is if two people are arguing which kind of apple is better. Gala, or Fuji...but I think we ALL can agree that Fuji apples are better, I mean come on. :P
You completly missed the point of this thread. FIrst, its not comparing apples and oranges they are basically the exact same genre. We arent comparing BF3 to Skyrim.
Second, its not about being able to play both games its a matter of which game is better. Yes I can play both Splinter cell or deus ex, but that doesnt really matter. Why would I want to play an awesome game as well as an inferior game that is just like the awesome game? Why would I not just spend my time on the awesome game?
Once again I see a lot of people that rather choose which developer to /fan, rather than play a good game.
Tisk, tisk.
Im not saying one's better than the other (Ille be playing both), but in my opinion, Runic Games stopped patching Torchlight WAY too soon (As opposed to Blizzard that's still updating Diablo 2). There's still a lot I find missing in it. So Ille have to wait and see how they'lle handle it this time.
That said, I'm itching for both.
I just have to say, for those who like to say, "Torchlight = Diablo with better graphics"
And if you like Diablo, you'll automatically like Torchlight.
I've played Torchlight, and I lost interest very quickly. D2 I was obsessed with for many years and still load it up every once in awhile.
What people fail to see is that... the game being hack'n slash is not necessarily all that makes Diablo 2 what it is.
Diablo 2 has such an awesome art style. Sure, it's old school, but the environments are actually creepy. And it still looks awesome.
Torchlight's dungeons were unoriginal, they all looked the same, and it looked more like WoW than Diablo with its cartoony graphics.
From what I've seen, T2 is same way. Bright, colorful worlds that do not strike me as Diablo-like at all, they're way too sunny and 'pretty'. A lot of the reason why I loved Diablo and D2 was for their gritty, gory atmosphere that just felt dark and grungy.
So maybe I'm the only one who remembers or cares about how good the art style was in D2.
But because of how bright, sunny, cartoony, and just less serious Torchlight looks, both T1 and T2, I will always choose Diablo.
Gameplay is not necessarilly all that makes a game, neither is shiny graphics. Art style goes a long way for me.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
Waiting for: None
I'm not siding with Blizzard or Runic, as I support competition in this genre. However, you're being blind and ignorant if you think a profit-driven company is selling a product at 1/3 the regular retail price solely because they value their customers opinions and to support the recession. That is simply a strategy to pentrate into that slice of the market. To their credit, it is working.
Buy and play a game because you find it enjoyable. The companies behind them are all profit-driven wether you like it or not.
Of course all for profit companies are trying to make profit. But companies are still run by human beings, and don't always act like cold calculating profit machines like many larger companies tend to behave. Runic tends to keep a more open dialogue with their customerbase, and seems to try to build a better customer relationship by going out of their way to make the game more accessible and user friendly -- offline gameplay, LAN supoort, mod support, etc
Blizzard on the other hand, knows that people are going to buy DIablo 3 whether it has expanded functionality or not. They're not trying because they know there is a large number of players that will buy the game simply because it's called Diablo and is made by Blizzard. They can charge $60, and tons of people will still be lining up out the door to buy the game on release date.
Success really does change people, and organizations. Blizzard used to be the company that cared, now they're no better than their other half -- Activision.
As someone who grew up as a kid with Warcraft 1 and Diablo 1, I can emphatize with you. On the other hand, I would not call them evil for the shift in their direction. If their perceived "selfish" actions prove to be the start of their downfall, then so be it. My decision to buy games is not tied down by the developer. I may not agree with their decisions - I have a distaste for their online-only DRM and RMAH, but I would still play the game. Despite all the negatives, it still gives off that same vibe I felt back when I first started playing Diablo 1. For me, TL2 is just not there yet. Like I said in an earlier post, I wouldn't even touch TL2 but I will look forward to TL3 .
If I were to compare, Runic is to Arenanet as Torchlight 2 is to Guild Wars 1. These are two companies driving the market forward with these changes. With that, I look forward to Runic creating their own Guild Wars 2.
Blizzards shift in direction is just bad but if they want to go the suits route so be it I will never ever touch a game made by these bastards.
Just look at the game announcements instead of Morhaime they are now done by **** suits like Tippl or Emperor Palpatine Kotick and it shows in the "quality" of their games.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
First post incoming.
I believe I will,
try both and enjoy what each has to offer.
of course i also like the colts and pats or yanks and red socks.
No lines in the sand for this guy.
For fuck's sake, there is no cash shop in Diablo 3.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
there is its called RMAH
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
It's not like this type of thing didn't exist in Diablo 2. It's done legitimately and smartly this time around, and people decide to act surprised/outraged.
Edit: Also, more comprehension please.
The poster I quoted seems to think that with D3 Blizzard will be "nickling and diming" us via the "cash shop" - a concept so false, that it is laughable. Yes, Blizzard will bleed players dry but it will be via plushes, and expensive expacs; not through this "cash shop".
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
well the people who did it also run the risk of stolen accounts and rightfully so, hopefully they've lost all their characters. This RMAH crap is also part of the reason why Blizzard wants everyone online all the time, like it or not thats the truth.
Its about milking a former great franchise.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
It is a cash shop. The only difference is that blizzard isnt directly selling the profit. Blizzard still gets a cut. Blizzard still hosts the shop. And the stop still has in game items in it. Its a form of cash shop.
You don't have to use RL cash.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
There are F2P games where you can get cash shop stuff with in game money by trading other players. Doesnt mean the game doesnt have a cash shop.
It does not matter if you can use in game money or not, the fact that I someone can pay real money for items makes it a CASH shop.
Okay, if you want to argue semantics in first-grader he-sad-she-said fashion, then sure you win, it is a CASH shop.
But no, it's definitely not there to exploit the players or harm the game/gameplay in anyway.
To think that is naive. Or maybe the tinfoil hats are jammed too tight.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
I never said it hurts gameplay too much because I can just choose not to play with those players. But it does exploit those who purchase these items. In D2 players would go through third party to buy these items. Blizzard notices this and decides there is money in it. Now they can make money when someone posts an item, and again when the item is sold. Blizzard is exploiting the players. They could very easily not take nearly as big a cut as they are but instead they will make as much money as they can.