If you support the game they why did you start this topic? You mention the media is slamming it for being a traditional MMO. Besides some few small websites TOR has mostly positive reviews. And have you seen the 2 previews that came out of the Eurogamer expo demo. Did you see those reviewers preview this game by comparing to GW2? It is like me reviewing Halo by comparing it with CoD. I give halo a 2/10 because it's campaign is not as epic or intense (not saying halo sucks but opinions vary), or it's multiplayer is not as fast as CoD (again opinion). Instead of judging the game for itself. I can preview GW2 like that too by comparing it DAoC rvr, Public quests from other games, lack of raiding (which most MMO players still enjoy because they log in WoW), Lack of a proper gear system (again which most MMO players still enjoy) etc.
you can talk about MMO's and the industry in general without having to be a fanboy or a hater, and I think his posting history supports his claims. The way I understand it, what you are posting is exactly what the OP was talking about th media doing, so unless I'm really confused you agree with him?
Yes i misread the original post and i would like to apologize to distopia. Sorry man. But i still don't agree with people keep claiming that TOR is being slammed the critics.
I don't think its being slammed by critics really, but I think there are critics who disagree with the basic design choices the developers made and instead of simply saying that, they write a poor review. For example, a reviewer says something like "the combat looks slow and terrible" when what they actually mean is "I am only interested in games with twitch based combat." To a casual reader, the way they word the statement matters a lot, because they are now thinking the combat is broken, when its actually working as intended. Just an example, not something specific btw.
If you support the game they why did you start this topic? You mention the media is slamming it for being a traditional MMO. Besides some few small websites TOR has mostly positive reviews. And have you seen the 2 previews that came out of the Eurogamer expo demo. Did you see those reviewers preview this game by comparing to GW2? It is like me reviewing Halo by comparing it with CoD. I give halo a 2/10 because it's campaign is not as epic or intense (not saying halo sucks but opinions vary), or it's multiplayer is not as fast as CoD (again opinion). Instead of judging the game for itself. I can preview GW2 like that too by comparing it DAoC rvr, Public quests from other games, lack of raiding (which most MMO players still enjoy because they log in WoW), Lack of a proper gear system (again which most MMO players still enjoy) etc.
you can talk about MMO's and the industry in general without having to be a fanboy or a hater, and I think his posting history supports his claims. The way I understand it, what you are posting is exactly what the OP was talking about th media doing, so unless I'm really confused you agree with him?
Yes i misread the original post and i would like to apologize to distopia. Sorry man. But i still don't agree with people keep claiming that TOR is being slammed the critics.
It's all good, we all do it from time to time (read things wrong). Maybe I worded that a little too harsh earlier in this thread (TOR getting slammed). You're right there have been a ton of positive impressions. TBH it seems the longer a previewer got to play the better their impression was.
Still I can't ignore this trend that's been growing in both the community and now it seems the media. My biggest fear is that the action oriented designs will catch on outside of the genre far easier, making many studios focus on that option. We saw it happen to the sandbox, I'm sure back in 2003 everyone thought there would be another AC, EVE, SWG or UO to come along, I know I did..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Don't worry. The reviewers are ripping all the new shooters for being shooters too.
And Madden for being Football again.
I think the reviewers are just getting as sick as we are with extremely long development cycles and limited improvements over previous versions.Even Game Infomer has given Bioware a few digs about how long its taking and they may have missed their window. And Game Informer has its nose deeply up all those corporations butts.
I understand that SW:TOR is going to be a theme park MMO akin to WOW and not an actually full size recreation of the entire Starwars Universe down to the last detail. I get it. It looks fun, and I need a new game. Hopefully we will have a long fulfilling relationship. If not the divorce is cheap and the ring was a cubic ziconium and life goes on.
Heck I got 3 months out of STO and 2 more out of DDO this summer/fall. Bioware HAS to be able to better than that
Have a sense of humor, no need to get ALL MODDY ! A Simpson's quote shouldn't be worth a warning. You are lucky anyone is bothering to read this rag.
The thing that's struck me the most is that I've never seen any game pre-launch come under the kind of scrutiny that TOR has, I don't recall negative press previews for FFXIV, WAR, or Aion, or AoC, or Rift or (insert recent AAA contender here), at least not while the NDA stood.
I think a lot of media outlets have gotten backlash from readers for being biased in their coverage of games in the past, and so some of them are trying to be a bit more "balanced" in their approach to TOR. No-one wants to be laughed at for unconditionally praising a game when there's a risk (even a small one!) it might fall flat on its face. There's no telliing whether the MMO community will embrace or reject TOR, and if it does fail (read my post history before accusing me of hating please!) they'd rather be in the "told ya!" corner rather than the "oops!" corner.
That, coupled with the fact that it's Star Wars and another MMO based on the same IP but with hugely different design is about to be put out to pasture, means they have to look at it from a bunch of different angles, and they have to nitpick too, because Star Wars fans are nothing if not nit-picky when it comes to their favorite IP.
I get really leery of any game that has nothing but positive press. Not everyone will like every game, and the same should hold true for reviews and previews. I may not agree with some of these TOR previews, but I'm glad they're out there, in part because they should be helping to temper peoples' expectations. Setting the expectation bar too high always leads to disappointment, it's basic human nature. It's also human nature to gravitate towards reviews and previews that reinforce your opinion of the game (whether you've played it or not).
I believe its simply that some people sense a danger to their personal agenda as well some mmos will pretty much know they get hurt significantly and the meta-competition has already begun.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
The thing that's struck me the most is that I've never seen any game pre-launch come under the kind of scrutiny that TOR has, I don't recall negative press previews for FFXIV, WAR, or Aion, or AoC, or Rift or (insert recent AAA contender here), at least not while the NDA stood.
I think a lot of media outlets have gotten backlash from readers for being biased in their coverage of games in the past, and so some of them are trying to be a bit more "balanced" in their approach to TOR. No-one wants to be laughed at for unconditionally praising a game when there's a risk (even a small one!) it might fall flat on its face. There's no telliing whether the MMO community will embrace or reject TOR, and if it does fail (read my post history before accusing me of hating please!) they'd rather be in the "told ya!" corner rather than the "oops!" corner.
That, coupled with the fact that it's Star Wars and another MMO based on the same IP but with hugely different design is about to be put out to pasture, means they have to look at it from a bunch of different angles, and they have to nitpick too, because Star Wars fans are nothing if not nit-picky when it comes to their favorite IP.
I get really leery of any game that has nothing but positive press. Not everyone will like every game, and the same should hold true for reviews and previews. I may not agree with some of these TOR previews, but I'm glad they're out there, in part because they should be helping to temper peoples' expectations. Setting the expectation bar too high always leads to disappointment, it's basic human nature. It's also human nature to gravitate towards reviews and previews that reinforce your opinion of the game (whether you've played it or not).
I'd be interested in knowing where "all" of these negative reviews are that you reference. I think there's been a small handful (less than 5) that might be negative and the majority of reviews I've read have been on the far too postivie side which is true of most MMO's.
I don't see any more negative posting about SWTOR vs the other games you mentioned other than it is the biggest media sensation in quite some time so of course its going to draw a bunch of attention.
Like all MMO's, many will like it, some with hate it, in the end I'll probably end up playing it at some point.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Will TOR be the last MMO built for those of us who prefer the traditional MMO mechanics it incorporates? With so many major publications beating on Bioware over their choices in design, I really don't see many following in their footsteps. Will the media push this industry into something it was never meant to be, action oriented?
I sincerely hope that it's the last in a long line of WoW clones. ToR will follow Rift IMO in that it will be a decent game but get nowhere even close to the numbers that WoW achieved because this style of gameplay is simply too old and stale now. I think TSW will outstrip ToR in subs once it all levels out after the initial couple of months, and I think that GW2 will outstrip ToR in every department, sad but true.
I started out having high hopes for ToR because I love Bioware games and with the kind of budget they have had... well, let's just say that once the final numbers are in after say six months I wouldn't be surprised to see EA doing to the Bioware name and staff what they did to Mythics.
I'd be interested in knowing where "all" of these negative reviews are that you reference. I think there's been a small handful (less than 5) that might be negative and the majority of reviews I've read have been on the far too postivie side which is true of most MMO's.
I don't see any more negative posting about SWTOR vs the other games you mentioned other than it is the biggest media sensation in quite some time so of course its going to draw a bunch of attention.
Like all MMO's, many will like it, some with hate it, in the end I'll probably end up playing it at some point.
Well, there's the three that always get posted, and then there's pretty much the entirety of Kotaku I think someone from BioWare peed in their cheerios), and there was a lot of bashing in the blogosphere about the whole red zone / green zone nonsense. Maybe "all" wasn't a good word choice but it's 1.50 am here and I'm falling asleep.
I'm amazed someone actually got on the defensive with me though, and I was rather surprised it was you.
I'd be interested in knowing where "all" of these negative reviews are that you reference. I think there's been a small handful (less than 5) that might be negative and the majority of reviews I've read have been on the far too postivie side which is true of most MMO's.
I don't see any more negative posting about SWTOR vs the other games you mentioned other than it is the biggest media sensation in quite some time so of course its going to draw a bunch of attention.
Like all MMO's, many will like it, some with hate it, in the end I'll probably end up playing it at some point.
There's definitely more than 5, hell in my last gameinformer (well the last few) the only coverage they've had of it was a few blasts at how underwhelming the game has become.
Just about every major pub I can think of, has had a few negative things to say the last few months (basically since e3). People seem to expect more than what they're seeing when it comes to TOR.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think TSW will outstrip ToR in subs once it all levels out after the initial couple of months
One word: Funcom. TSW will be a disaster. That's the last game SWTOR has to worry about in terms of competition. GW2 will hurt them a little, until people get bored at endgame and come back to SWTOR. Any MMO that doesn't offer at least some endgame raiding is going to hurt itself in the end. And I say that as someone who doesn't care much for raiding anymore. GW2 has some nice features, but is missing far too many elements from what people do like about classic themepark games. I think it will be a very successful niche game that people play as a secondary MMO to whatever they prefer as their main MMO. In the end, I think people will find the content a bit shallow for their tastes. We'll see.
Firstly, I think SWTOR is going to do very well in sales. It's SW...it's Bioware, it will sell. It will probably also be very good.
Secondly, I've been reading some of the comments that are being made about GW2, mostly by Guilleplayer,..and man what are you guys smoking? GW2 will have a player base similar to Eve??? For real?? Even GW1 has many more players than Eve.
I don't know where you guys got the idea that GW2's combat is going to be twitchy on the level of an FPS. GW2 is still a tab target MMO. The only difference is that you can just shoot or swing and if it happens to collide with someone, they get hit. Why is this so terrible? I see GW2's combat being far more similar to wow than an FPS.
Also, why the heck do you think that GW2 will be unattractive to casuals? From what I have seen, it looks to be a very accessible game. It has instant travel, npcs that tell you where to go, an instances personal story quest line that can be entirely soloed...aren't these things that casuals like?
If MMO players really just wanted games that rehash the WoW formula over and over, then all of the WoW imitators that have been released over the past few years would have been wildly successful. True, many of them were subpar, but some were polished, like Aion and Rift. And yet WoW still sits comfortably on it's throne.
Finally, look at WoW itself and why it was successful. WoW did not just copy its predecessor, EQ. WoW actually took EQ and improved upon all of the shortcomings that people perceived with it. WoW was an innovator with quest-node leveling, scripted dungeons, and class design. Doesn't it stand to reason that for a new game to be wildly successful, it needs to actually IMPROVE on the problems perceived with WoW, not just recreate them?
There is just no way TOR is the last of the traditional MMO. Rift showed the world a good polished quality MMO will get subs, I can't see any non-idiotic company not picking that game as a template if they want to get into the MMO genre.
On a personal level, I definitely feel it'll be the last MMO I'll play for a good while actually.
Until Bioware comes out with another MMO (say, MASS EFFECT?!), this is my MMO of choice.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Will TOR be the last MMO built for those of us who prefer the traditional MMO mechanics it incorporates? With so many major publications beating on Bioware over their choices in design, I really don't see many following in their footsteps. Will the media push this industry into something it was never meant to be, action oriented?
Don't you think that's an absolutely naive perception?
I'll give you a hint:
Bioware doesn't give 2 shits whether or not other game companies are beating on them and their choice of design because it will make money; more than likely, more money that most other games out there.
Sorry, the market for the hard-cores is much tougher than it is for people building a "theme-park MMO" because even a share of 5% of that market means big bucks.
Firstly, I think SWTOR is going to do very well in sales. It's SW...it's Bioware, it will sell. It will probably also be very good.
Secondly, I've been reading some of the comments that are being made about GW2, mostly by Guilleplayer,..and man what are you guys smoking? GW2 will have a player base similar to Eve??? For real?? Even GW1 has many more players than Eve.
I don't know where you guys got the idea that GW2's combat is going to be twitchy on the level of an FPS. GW2 is still a tab target MMO. The only difference is that you can just shoot or swing and if it happens to collide with someone, they get hit. Why is this so terrible? I see GW2's combat being far more similar to wow than an FPS.
Also, why the heck do you think that GW2 will be unattractive to casuals? From what I have seen, it looks to be a very accessible game. It has instant travel, npcs that tell you where to go, an instances personal story quest line that can be entirely soloed...aren't these things that casuals like?
If MMO players really just wanted games that rehash the WoW formula over and over, then all of the WoW imitators that have been released over the past few years would have been wildly successful. True, many of them were subpar, but some were polished, like Aion and Rift. And yet WoW still sits comfortably on it's throne.
Finally, look at WoW itself and why it was successful. WoW did not just copy its predecessor, EQ. WoW actually took EQ and improved upon all of the shortcomings that people perceived with it. WoW was an innovator with quest-node leveling, scripted dungeons, and class design. Doesn't it stand to reason that for a new game to be wildly successful, it needs to actually IMPROVE on the problems perceived with WoW, not just recreate them?
Yes but the thing is SWTOR is not a WoW clone. Every single quest in this game is something you would play in a mass effect game. Those go there collect that or kill X amout are all bonus objectives that you can skip. Some of the dungeons are different based on what faction you are. Most indepth "pet" system in a MMO (companion), A new twist on the crafting system (crew skills), Advance class system. You can have 2 completely different type of class from one character (based on what AC you pick), First cover system in a MMO, Different story lines for different classes, Voice acting, your own ship that you can customize (might be possible to decorate the interrior but not yet confirmed) etc, So you see TOR is not copying WoW, they are taking features from TRADITIONAL MMOs and putting their own flavor into it with some new idea that was never implemented on a MMO. So i hate it when people call TOR a clone because it isn't. And the dialogue and alignment system alone makes up for RP players more than any other game. As a matter of fact i think TOR has more "first timers" than GW2.
And as for the GW thing what would a casual gamer want to play as, a jedi knight? or a ranger? Play as generic warrior, mage or be a iconic bounty hunter or a han solo type smuggler with a wookie companion. You ask yourself that question friend. Again go to your local gamestop and ask customers about what they would like to play as. Or log onto WoW, go to SW and ask on trade chat.
I am just curious here, what MMO do you subscribe to currently?
Originally posted by Distopia Will TOR be the last MMO built for those of us who prefer the traditional MMO mechanics it incorporates? With so many major publications beating on Bioware over their choices in design, I really don't see many following in their footsteps. Will the media push this industry into something it was never meant to be, action oriented?
Uhh TOR is nothing BUT traditional! it's closer to an RPG than an MMO..uhh so i've heard of course!
It's use of companion is detrimental to the M of MMO.
The use of voice over was never done to this extent and that is actually a plus for it.
You make assumption that MMO are these things when in fact the elements it will use are not really mainstream in MMO but like i said, closer to regular RPG's.
I certainly hope companions arent use in too many MMO or at the very least if they are used that the Massive aspect is not let down so much as is the case with TOR.
Firstly, I think SWTOR is going to do very well in sales. It's SW...it's Bioware, it will sell. It will probably also be very good.
Secondly, I've been reading some of the comments that are being made about GW2, mostly by Guilleplayer,..and man what are you guys smoking? GW2 will have a player base similar to Eve??? For real?? Even GW1 has many more players than Eve.
I don't know where you guys got the idea that GW2's combat is going to be twitchy on the level of an FPS. GW2 is still a tab target MMO. The only difference is that you can just shoot or swing and if it happens to collide with someone, they get hit. Why is this so terrible? I see GW2's combat being far more similar to wow than an FPS.
Also, why the heck do you think that GW2 will be unattractive to casuals? From what I have seen, it looks to be a very accessible game. It has instant travel, npcs that tell you where to go, an instances personal story quest line that can be entirely soloed...aren't these things that casuals like?
If MMO players really just wanted games that rehash the WoW formula over and over, then all of the WoW imitators that have been released over the past few years would have been wildly successful. True, many of them were subpar, but some were polished, like Aion and Rift. And yet WoW still sits comfortably on it's throne.
Finally, look at WoW itself and why it was successful. WoW did not just copy its predecessor, EQ. WoW actually took EQ and improved upon all of the shortcomings that people perceived with it. WoW was an innovator with quest-node leveling, scripted dungeons, and class design. Doesn't it stand to reason that for a new game to be wildly successful, it needs to actually IMPROVE on the problems perceived with WoW, not just recreate them?
Yes but the thing is SWTOR is not a WoW clone. Every single quest in this game is something you would play in a mass effect game. Those go there collect that or kill X amout are all bonus objectives that you can skip. Some of the dungeons are different based on what faction you are. Most indepth "pet" system in a MMO (companion), A new twist on the crafting system (crew skills), Advance class system. You can have 2 completely different type of class from one character (based on what AC you pick), First cover system in a MMO, Different story lines for different classes, Voice acting, your own ship that you can customize (might be possible to decorate the interrior but not yet confirmed) etc, So you see TOR is not copying WoW, they are taking features from TRADITIONAL MMOs and putting their own flavor into it with some new idea that was never implemented on a MMO. So i hate it when people call TOR a clone because it isn't. And the dialogue and alignment system alone makes up for RP players more than any other game. As a matter of fact i think TOR has more "first timers" than GW2.
And as for the GW thing what would a casual gamer want to play as, a jedi knight? or a ranger? Play as generic warrior, mage or be a iconic bounty hunter or a han solo type smuggler with a wookie companion. You ask yourself that question friend. Again go to your local gamestop and ask customers about what they would like to play as. Or log onto WoW, go to SW and ask on trade chat.
I am just curious here, what MMO do you subscribe to currently?
Well I never said SWTOR was a wow clone. My stance is that I can't judge that until I play the game.
As for taking features from traditional MMOs and building upon them...isn't that what GW2 is doing as well? Public quests, classes, tab target combat, dungeons, battle grounds...GW2 has all of these. It just put a bigger "twist" on the features than games like Rift and WAR.
As for your "all casuals want to be a Jedi.". This is basically just your opinion. What arguments do you have to back this up? My argument against yours would be that WoW was far more popular than SWG despite the fact that SWG was star wars. People want to play a GOOD game, not just the game that is based on Star Wars..
As for what I am subbed to, nothing currently, but my last game was Rift. I started with UO and played most of the major MMOs since then.
I don't think the Indie marketplace ever recovered from WoW. Whatever investors out there would have funded new concepts now are scared of a non-WoW formula. To an investors, you play it safe. That means stick with what isn't broken. The only reason we even see WoW sub drops is because of 1) economy 2) WoW-with-better-graphics alternatives.
People, stop thinking the same error over and over again.
It doesnt matter if apples are the cheapest and most popular kind of fruit. If there are already too many people on the market, an investor is much wiser if they would invest in some other market, like bananas. Yes that market is smaller, but there is also profit in that market.
Likewise, yes, shooters are most popular. But still roleplaying games are made. Why ? Because they are a different market.
As long as there is profit, there can be investors.
And besides, making a WoW clone is not exactly a formula for success, anyway.
There have been few MMORPGs with traditional mechanics that have done exceptionally well* since WoW.
Then again there have been few MMORPGs with NEW mechanics that have done exceptionally well* since WoW.
I really don't see mechanics as the issue here. If Rift has proven anything, polish the game, market non-stop, and content updates non-stop seem to be the biggest issues holding games back.
*breaking the multi-million subscriber mark and holding the position for at least a year.
Dunno. While I agree you are right....well Rift for me was just same old same old.
The fact is there is a paradigm shift in MMO players in terms of game preferences. People want more actiony type gameplay.
This is exactly why I think GW2 is going to hit the market smack on at the perfect spot. It caters to everyone.
SWTOR is of a dying breed but... I have no doubt SWTOR will make shed loads of money and continue to run for a long time. But GW2 will do very well, I think.
Currently waiting for the MMO industry to put out something good.
There have been few MMORPGs with traditional mechanics that have done exceptionally well* since WoW.
Then again there have been few MMORPGs with NEW mechanics that have done exceptionally well* since WoW.
I really don't see mechanics as the issue here. If Rift has proven anything, polish the game, market non-stop, and content updates non-stop seem to be the biggest issues holding games back.
*breaking the multi-million subscriber mark and holding the position for at least a year.
Dunno. While I agree you are right....well Rift for me was just same old same old.
The fact is there is a paradigm shift in MMO players in terms of game preferences. People want more actiony type gameplay.
This is exactly why I think GW2 is going to hit the market smack on at the perfect spot. It caters to everyone.
SWTOR is of a dying breed but... I have no doubt SWTOR will make shed loads of money and continue to run for a long time. But GW2 will do very well, I think.
If I wanted an action anything I would go play my X-Box.
And last I check games like DCUO and Vendictus arn't really doing all that great.
Dunno. While I agree you are right....well Rift for me was just same old same old.
The fact is there is a paradigm shift in MMO players in terms of game preferences. People want more actiony type gameplay.
This is exactly why I think GW2 is going to hit the market smack on at the perfect spot. It caters to everyone.
SWTOR is of a dying breed but... I have no doubt SWTOR will make shed loads of money and continue to run for a long time. But GW2 will do very well, I think.
In my case I don't care if it is more or less action oriented, I am just tired of the exact same mechanics in every game.
I don't think it is a sign that people want more action based games, people are just tired of playing the same game with a new skin.
Until Wow started to grow really big devs were actually trying different things but since 2005 or so everyone just tried to remake Wow and eventually did that lead to the point were people ot tired of it.
Beatles (or other huge band people like to copy) was great but all bands that tried to sounds just like them became annoying after a while. We are talking the same thing here.
No matter how fun something is you will get tired of it if you overdose it. It doesn't help that most people spend a lot of time in MMOs compared to most other games either.
I think we need a few dev teams that never even tried a MMO before and have them start the idea of porting a pen and paper RPG to a massive computer game from scratch instead of the current gangs that just take everything from older games.
Comments
Yes i misread the original post and i would like to apologize to distopia. Sorry man. But i still don't agree with people keep claiming that TOR is being slammed the critics.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
I don't think its being slammed by critics really, but I think there are critics who disagree with the basic design choices the developers made and instead of simply saying that, they write a poor review. For example, a reviewer says something like "the combat looks slow and terrible" when what they actually mean is "I am only interested in games with twitch based combat." To a casual reader, the way they word the statement matters a lot, because they are now thinking the combat is broken, when its actually working as intended. Just an example, not something specific btw.
It's all good, we all do it from time to time (read things wrong). Maybe I worded that a little too harsh earlier in this thread (TOR getting slammed). You're right there have been a ton of positive impressions. TBH it seems the longer a previewer got to play the better their impression was.
Still I can't ignore this trend that's been growing in both the community and now it seems the media. My biggest fear is that the action oriented designs will catch on outside of the genre far easier, making many studios focus on that option. We saw it happen to the sandbox, I'm sure back in 2003 everyone thought there would be another AC, EVE, SWG or UO to come along, I know I did..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
To the OP;
Don't worry. The reviewers are ripping all the new shooters for being shooters too.
And Madden for being Football again.
I think the reviewers are just getting as sick as we are with extremely long development cycles and limited improvements over previous versions.Even Game Infomer has given Bioware a few digs about how long its taking and they may have missed their window. And Game Informer has its nose deeply up all those corporations butts.
I understand that SW:TOR is going to be a theme park MMO akin to WOW and not an actually full size recreation of the entire Starwars Universe down to the last detail. I get it. It looks fun, and I need a new game. Hopefully we will have a long fulfilling relationship. If not the divorce is cheap and the ring was a cubic ziconium and life goes on.
Heck I got 3 months out of STO and 2 more out of DDO this summer/fall. Bioware HAS to be able to better than that
Have a sense of humor, no need to get ALL MODDY !
A Simpson's quote shouldn't be worth a warning. You are lucky anyone is bothering to read this rag.
The thing that's struck me the most is that I've never seen any game pre-launch come under the kind of scrutiny that TOR has, I don't recall negative press previews for FFXIV, WAR, or Aion, or AoC, or Rift or (insert recent AAA contender here), at least not while the NDA stood.
I think a lot of media outlets have gotten backlash from readers for being biased in their coverage of games in the past, and so some of them are trying to be a bit more "balanced" in their approach to TOR. No-one wants to be laughed at for unconditionally praising a game when there's a risk (even a small one!) it might fall flat on its face. There's no telliing whether the MMO community will embrace or reject TOR, and if it does fail (read my post history before accusing me of hating please!) they'd rather be in the "told ya!" corner rather than the "oops!" corner.
That, coupled with the fact that it's Star Wars and another MMO based on the same IP but with hugely different design is about to be put out to pasture, means they have to look at it from a bunch of different angles, and they have to nitpick too, because Star Wars fans are nothing if not nit-picky when it comes to their favorite IP.
I get really leery of any game that has nothing but positive press. Not everyone will like every game, and the same should hold true for reviews and previews. I may not agree with some of these TOR previews, but I'm glad they're out there, in part because they should be helping to temper peoples' expectations. Setting the expectation bar too high always leads to disappointment, it's basic human nature. It's also human nature to gravitate towards reviews and previews that reinforce your opinion of the game (whether you've played it or not).
I believe its simply that some people sense a danger to their personal agenda as well some mmos will pretty much know they get hurt significantly and the meta-competition has already begun.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
i have friends playing beta and they are enjoying a lot, and they keep telling the game its a blast
I'd be interested in knowing where "all" of these negative reviews are that you reference. I think there's been a small handful (less than 5) that might be negative and the majority of reviews I've read have been on the far too postivie side which is true of most MMO's.
I don't see any more negative posting about SWTOR vs the other games you mentioned other than it is the biggest media sensation in quite some time so of course its going to draw a bunch of attention.
Like all MMO's, many will like it, some with hate it, in the end I'll probably end up playing it at some point.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I sincerely hope that it's the last in a long line of WoW clones. ToR will follow Rift IMO in that it will be a decent game but get nowhere even close to the numbers that WoW achieved because this style of gameplay is simply too old and stale now. I think TSW will outstrip ToR in subs once it all levels out after the initial couple of months, and I think that GW2 will outstrip ToR in every department, sad but true.
I started out having high hopes for ToR because I love Bioware games and with the kind of budget they have had... well, let's just say that once the final numbers are in after say six months I wouldn't be surprised to see EA doing to the Bioware name and staff what they did to Mythics.
Well, there's the three that always get posted, and then there's pretty much the entirety of Kotaku I think someone from BioWare peed in their cheerios), and there was a lot of bashing in the blogosphere about the whole red zone / green zone nonsense. Maybe "all" wasn't a good word choice but it's 1.50 am here and I'm falling asleep.
I'm amazed someone actually got on the defensive with me though, and I was rather surprised it was you.
I obviously can't do "objective"
There's definitely more than 5, hell in my last gameinformer (well the last few) the only coverage they've had of it was a few blasts at how underwhelming the game has become.
Just about every major pub I can think of, has had a few negative things to say the last few months (basically since e3). People seem to expect more than what they're seeing when it comes to TOR.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
One word: Funcom. TSW will be a disaster. That's the last game SWTOR has to worry about in terms of competition. GW2 will hurt them a little, until people get bored at endgame and come back to SWTOR. Any MMO that doesn't offer at least some endgame raiding is going to hurt itself in the end. And I say that as someone who doesn't care much for raiding anymore. GW2 has some nice features, but is missing far too many elements from what people do like about classic themepark games. I think it will be a very successful niche game that people play as a secondary MMO to whatever they prefer as their main MMO. In the end, I think people will find the content a bit shallow for their tastes. We'll see.
So I get on my knees and pray..........
WE DON"T GET FOOLED AGAIN!!!!!!
Have a sense of humor, no need to get ALL MODDY !
A Simpson's quote shouldn't be worth a warning. You are lucky anyone is bothering to read this rag.
Secondly, I've been reading some of the comments that are being made about GW2, mostly by Guilleplayer,..and man what are you guys smoking? GW2 will have a player base similar to Eve??? For real?? Even GW1 has many more players than Eve.
I don't know where you guys got the idea that GW2's combat is going to be twitchy on the level of an FPS. GW2 is still a tab target MMO. The only difference is that you can just shoot or swing and if it happens to collide with someone, they get hit. Why is this so terrible? I see GW2's combat being far more similar to wow than an FPS.
Also, why the heck do you think that GW2 will be unattractive to casuals? From what I have seen, it looks to be a very accessible game. It has instant travel, npcs that tell you where to go, an instances personal story quest line that can be entirely soloed...aren't these things that casuals like?
If MMO players really just wanted games that rehash the WoW formula over and over, then all of the WoW imitators that have been released over the past few years would have been wildly successful. True, many of them were subpar, but some were polished, like Aion and Rift. And yet WoW still sits comfortably on it's throne.
Finally, look at WoW itself and why it was successful. WoW did not just copy its predecessor, EQ. WoW actually took EQ and improved upon all of the shortcomings that people perceived with it. WoW was an innovator with quest-node leveling, scripted dungeons, and class design. Doesn't it stand to reason that for a new game to be wildly successful, it needs to actually IMPROVE on the problems perceived with WoW, not just recreate them?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
There is just no way TOR is the last of the traditional MMO. Rift showed the world a good polished quality MMO will get subs, I can't see any non-idiotic company not picking that game as a template if they want to get into the MMO genre.
On a personal level, I definitely feel it'll be the last MMO I'll play for a good while actually.
Until Bioware comes out with another MMO (say, MASS EFFECT?!), this is my MMO of choice.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Don't you think that's an absolutely naive perception?
I'll give you a hint:
Bioware doesn't give 2 shits whether or not other game companies are beating on them and their choice of design because it will make money; more than likely, more money that most other games out there.
Sorry, the market for the hard-cores is much tougher than it is for people building a "theme-park MMO" because even a share of 5% of that market means big bucks.
Yes but the thing is SWTOR is not a WoW clone. Every single quest in this game is something you would play in a mass effect game. Those go there collect that or kill X amout are all bonus objectives that you can skip. Some of the dungeons are different based on what faction you are. Most indepth "pet" system in a MMO (companion), A new twist on the crafting system (crew skills), Advance class system. You can have 2 completely different type of class from one character (based on what AC you pick), First cover system in a MMO, Different story lines for different classes, Voice acting, your own ship that you can customize (might be possible to decorate the interrior but not yet confirmed) etc, So you see TOR is not copying WoW, they are taking features from TRADITIONAL MMOs and putting their own flavor into it with some new idea that was never implemented on a MMO. So i hate it when people call TOR a clone because it isn't. And the dialogue and alignment system alone makes up for RP players more than any other game. As a matter of fact i think TOR has more "first timers" than GW2.
And as for the GW thing what would a casual gamer want to play as, a jedi knight? or a ranger? Play as generic warrior, mage or be a iconic bounty hunter or a han solo type smuggler with a wookie companion. You ask yourself that question friend. Again go to your local gamestop and ask customers about what they would like to play as. Or log onto WoW, go to SW and ask on trade chat.
I am just curious here, what MMO do you subscribe to currently?
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
Uhh TOR is nothing BUT traditional! it's closer to an RPG than an MMO..uhh so i've heard of course!
It's use of companion is detrimental to the M of MMO.
The use of voice over was never done to this extent and that is actually a plus for it.
You make assumption that MMO are these things when in fact the elements it will use are not really mainstream in MMO but like i said, closer to regular RPG's.
I certainly hope companions arent use in too many MMO or at the very least if they are used that the Massive aspect is not let down so much as is the case with TOR.
Yes but the thing is SWTOR is not a WoW clone. Every single quest in this game is something you would play in a mass effect game. Those go there collect that or kill X amout are all bonus objectives that you can skip. Some of the dungeons are different based on what faction you are. Most indepth "pet" system in a MMO (companion), A new twist on the crafting system (crew skills), Advance class system. You can have 2 completely different type of class from one character (based on what AC you pick), First cover system in a MMO, Different story lines for different classes, Voice acting, your own ship that you can customize (might be possible to decorate the interrior but not yet confirmed) etc, So you see TOR is not copying WoW, they are taking features from TRADITIONAL MMOs and putting their own flavor into it with some new idea that was never implemented on a MMO. So i hate it when people call TOR a clone because it isn't. And the dialogue and alignment system alone makes up for RP players more than any other game. As a matter of fact i think TOR has more "first timers" than GW2.
And as for the GW thing what would a casual gamer want to play as, a jedi knight? or a ranger? Play as generic warrior, mage or be a iconic bounty hunter or a han solo type smuggler with a wookie companion. You ask yourself that question friend. Again go to your local gamestop and ask customers about what they would like to play as. Or log onto WoW, go to SW and ask on trade chat.
I am just curious here, what MMO do you subscribe to currently?
Well I never said SWTOR was a wow clone. My stance is that I can't judge that until I play the game.As for taking features from traditional MMOs and building upon them...isn't that what GW2 is doing as well? Public quests, classes, tab target combat, dungeons, battle grounds...GW2 has all of these. It just put a bigger "twist" on the features than games like Rift and WAR.
As for your "all casuals want to be a Jedi.". This is basically just your opinion. What arguments do you have to back this up? My argument against yours would be that WoW was far more popular than SWG despite the fact that SWG was star wars. People want to play a GOOD game, not just the game that is based on Star Wars..
As for what I am subbed to, nothing currently, but my last game was Rift. I started with UO and played most of the major MMOs since then.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Um, this statement is very wrong.
The game that earns more money doesnt destroy the games that make less. Otherwise obviously WoW would have killed everyone else by now.
The reason is simple: people who like roleplaying games and dislike action games, such as me, simply wont buy action games.
I don't think the Indie marketplace ever recovered from WoW. Whatever investors out there would have funded new concepts now are scared of a non-WoW formula. To an investors, you play it safe. That means stick with what isn't broken. The only reason we even see WoW sub drops is because of 1) economy 2) WoW-with-better-graphics alternatives.
Grr.
People, stop thinking the same error over and over again.
It doesnt matter if apples are the cheapest and most popular kind of fruit. If there are already too many people on the market, an investor is much wiser if they would invest in some other market, like bananas. Yes that market is smaller, but there is also profit in that market.
Likewise, yes, shooters are most popular. But still roleplaying games are made. Why ? Because they are a different market.
As long as there is profit, there can be investors.
And besides, making a WoW clone is not exactly a formula for success, anyway.
Dunno. While I agree you are right....well Rift for me was just same old same old.
The fact is there is a paradigm shift in MMO players in terms of game preferences. People want more actiony type gameplay.
This is exactly why I think GW2 is going to hit the market smack on at the perfect spot. It caters to everyone.
SWTOR is of a dying breed but... I have no doubt SWTOR will make shed loads of money and continue to run for a long time. But GW2 will do very well, I think.
If I wanted an action anything I would go play my X-Box.
And last I check games like DCUO and Vendictus arn't really doing all that great.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
In my case I don't care if it is more or less action oriented, I am just tired of the exact same mechanics in every game.
I don't think it is a sign that people want more action based games, people are just tired of playing the same game with a new skin.
Until Wow started to grow really big devs were actually trying different things but since 2005 or so everyone just tried to remake Wow and eventually did that lead to the point were people ot tired of it.
Beatles (or other huge band people like to copy) was great but all bands that tried to sounds just like them became annoying after a while. We are talking the same thing here.
No matter how fun something is you will get tired of it if you overdose it. It doesn't help that most people spend a lot of time in MMOs compared to most other games either.
I think we need a few dev teams that never even tried a MMO before and have them start the idea of porting a pen and paper RPG to a massive computer game from scratch instead of the current gangs that just take everything from older games.