These games are true RPGs. Well, as close as one can get without having a complete sandbox. :P
This is why Bethesda > Bioware. The main story doesn't matter one bit, because the world itself is more important.
Give me a bethesda MMORPG!
Bethesda would completly fail at an MMORPG. Speed levelers will be more vast and care less in an MMO. It's fine to be good at a story but power gamers couldn't careless about story and they drive MMOs into the ground or atleast into Freemium.
Replace "Bethesda" in your post with "Bioware" and you'll make my point for me.
Bioware does story. Bethesda does worlds. Which one fits better in an MMORPG?
Yes, cause you know MMOers give a crap about "worlds". Thats why they have mounts to get through it quicker, flying mounts to skip over everything and instant teleports to ignore it completely. Yeap, sounds like worlds means a lot. Derp.
So now by your own admission people do not like story, and they do not like the game world.
What exactly do people like? And in which of these areas would a Bethetsda MMORPG be lacking?
The thing that drives people to play MMOs is building up ones character but they are not interested in spending hours listening to whiny NPCs or running 10 miles to do a quest that gives them little reward for it. A company that specializes in single player RPGs like Bethesda or Bioware don't know the troubles of making an MMO and will resort to copying WoW to fill in the lack of knowleadge. Now we will have a WoW clone with elements of single player RPGs that you have to pay 15 a month to keep playing. Though Beth and Bio will do initially well simply based on the fact of their names but yeah, single player turned MMO experiences might work but I am pretty sure people will skip the aspects that make them special to concentrate on building up their characters.
Honestly I didn't expect a legitimate answer. Thank you for proving me wrong.
I'd wager a guess that most companies don't know even the basics of MMOG design, and those that do can still falter as easily as the newbies (e.g. Mythic).
Bioware's mistake was creating a WoW clone, I agree, but I don't think it's fair to say Bethesda or any company would make the same mistake. Hopefully TOR will be a flop so the rest of the companies start innovating. :P
Well done ... Not worrying so much about lack of content either (even though Swtor will have a metric ton more :P )
I must have played a thousand hours of Oblivion and Morrowind, (excluding modding).
I only finished the main storyline in Morrowind .... once. Never in Oblivion.
The sidequests, mod content and modding and random dungeons in TES games always appealed much more to me. I just can't immerse myself much in being an overpowered "chosen one / savior of the world". Read too much crappy fantasy books about that.
And Fallout2, one of greatest cRPGs known to mankind, was beatable in less than 30 minutes if you used a very specific path and build.
Sandboxy games don't focus on main storyline, they are about running around and doing silly things and tons of side quests, that's where the playtime goes into. Then there is also modding which further changes the game, sometimes completely.
You should get a job at Fox new network or something for providing useless news and giving them a dramatic twist....
The post DOES say the following....
" Bethesda has claimed it will take players around 30 hours to beat the game's central quest, not including the time it takes them to father (or mother) a dynasty of lizard children."
I posted the article because I found it interesting. If you don't like it then you don't have to read it.
And I've just watched the entire LOTR trilogy of 11 hours in under 3 seconds! I just scrolled the sliders - where are the articles about my amazing feat?
Seriously, doing a speed run of a RPG is probably the second pointless thing ever. It was outranked only by articles that write about it.
Skyrim is not about beating the main quest if you realy think that you have beat the game by doing main quest i advice choosing another game becouse you don't have clue about what Elder Scrolls serie is all about.
Ots a sandbox under the solo RPG'S where you have to explore and freely roaming around finding all its secrets and live for a while in this world. Not how fast you go its totally unimportend
I have feeling that someone who hates Elder Scroll this wanne put it in a negative spotlight hoping it would not sell many copys. Maybe even someone from bioware or fan who are jealous how Bethesda make such GREAT solo rpg's
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Honestly i would love to have a joint ventre of bathesda as well as bioware into a mmorpg over only one or the other, mostly because if they allowed bio to do the quests and story while bethesda to do the world and such it would fit well to their strrengths well. Though i would want them to by the ip for the origanal phastasy star series 1-4 and make an mmo in that univrerse not how either of the others did it.
Oh look, another excuse for the masses to hipster on about sandboxes.
Bleh.
So what? Doesn't hide the fact your Themeparks are still 1 trick ponies
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Oh look, another excuse for the masses to hipster on about sandboxes.
Bleh.
I dont think I fully understand this statement, but I think it means its another excuse for the masses to say that they like sandboxes and sandboxes are cooler?
If thats what your saying then its because sandboxes are better. If there was Mass Effect and a Sandbox equivilant of Mass Effect then the likely hood that the Sandbox would be more popular is high. Reason being is that you usually can get many more hours out of them. That or they have a higher replayability.
These games must be meant for the new age D&Ders, because I can't stand them. Yes, there are tons of side quests to do that can rack up hours into the 100's, but why? The story line in both FO3 and FONV were terrible, there was 0 character development. I don't get what you people see is so enjoyable in these types of games.
Do you role play that since you helped random person at random villager that you then feel better about yourself. There's no emotionally gripping dialogue or event chains (very very few of these) that make what you did mean anything whatsoever in the future parts of the game. I guess I just lack the creativity to care about doing side quests that dont have any real influence.
I'd much rather take a traditional JRPG which include actual characters with real emotional development, a thought out plot, and a main storyline that takes more than 3 hours to beat. If I'm playing a single player game it's for the story/character attachment, not so I can go around racking up achievements/village status. That's what MMOs are for.
These games are true RPGs. Well, as close as one can get without having a complete sandbox. :P
This is why Bethesda > Bioware. The main story doesn't matter one bit, because the world itself is more important.
Give me a bethesda MMORPG!
Bethesda would completly fail at an MMORPG. Speed levelers will be more vast and care less in an MMO. It's fine to be good at a story but power gamers couldn't careless about story and they drive MMOs into the ground or atleast into Freemium.
Replace "Bethesda" in your post with "Bioware" and you'll make my point for me.
Bioware does story. Bethesda does worlds. Which one fits better in an MMORPG?
Yes, cause you know MMOers give a crap about "worlds". Thats why they have mounts to get through it quicker, flying mounts to skip over everything and instant teleports to ignore it completely. Yeap, sounds like worlds means a lot. Derp.
Those are actualy the biggest problems in mmorpg's these days and why they are failing , they should be about the world and living in it , not teleportmountspeedlevel to the end of it .
I have never understand how a rush through can be a joyfull gameplay experience.
Because you can have two minutes of fame and make tens of thousands of gamers upset.
What I can't figure out is why the "omg2ez" players collect this data to depress themselves with.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
That's frigging awesome. Oblivion was quoted at 1 hour and i beat it the first time in slightly over 80 hours, so according to the math ill be getting about 160 hours on my first run. SWEET NEWS!!!
Why can't I change or effect the world anyway I damm well please.
Because it's not feasible with current technology. The payout for having a system where you could drastically change the entire game right now would not be worth the time needed to create such a thing. =
Originally posted by Kelthius 2 and a quarter compared to 75 min for Fallout 3? This game is gonna be pretty epic.
Good grief. I'm 40 hours into Fallout 3 and I'm nowhere close to beating the game. I've gone off on so many side quests I'm not even sure I remember why I'm wandering around the stupid wasteland.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I've beaten Morrowind in far less time, once you know where everything is you need. It usually doesn't take long at all to beat a game like this. If you think this can be done by someone who doesn't know the main quest in and out, all I have to say is LAWL.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Mass Effect are just as much a sandbox as Skyrim will be.
You wonder round a big map do quest and exploring at certain points.
Wondering around for 600 hours killing respawning mobs and collecting piles of cash/crap ain't no sodding Sandbox.
Bethseda games (and I am not going to call them RPGs because they aren't )are nothing but Themeparks stuck in a Groundhog Day style time loop.
You do all the rides and wait, bam everything is reset and you can do it.
Just like World of Warcraft and other MMORPGs.
If Oblivion/Fallout 3 are Sandboxes, every single MMORPG out there is too. Because the only difference is number of players.
If Fallout 3 is a sandbox, why can't I take over Tenpenny Tower and move the poor kids from Little Lamplight and Big Town in.
Why can't I stop the Enclave spawning? Depsite taking out 3 of their bases.
Why can't I stop the Supermutants from spawning by joining the Brotherhood of Steel in an attack on Vault 87.
Why can't I make a base/house/settlement anyway where I want instead of decorating preset, prebuilt houses.
Why can't I change or effect the world anyway I damm well please.
Oh right because its not a sodding Sandbox, is a themepark thats been invaded by a carnival and so there is pointless little stalls every 2 feet.
Your definition of "Sandbox" is inherently flawed due to the nature of technology and the limits that come with it. Name me a single sandbox game where you can do anything you desire. What's that? You can't? What a pity.
I'll give you the definition of Sandbox as it applies to video games:
A game where there is no right or wrong way to play.
The "main quest" makes up probably 10% of a given Bethesda game, but something like 90% of a Bioware game. You can do whatever you want within the limits of the game code in Fallout 3, but Bioware attempts to force you through their tired storyline every step of the way.
Next, what makes an RPG? You create a character, give him/her a face/name/strengths/weaknesses, and send him out into the world. Just like in pen and paper games, the game (rulebook) limits how far you can take the customization.
Fantastic analogy. I think Skyrim to be beaten in that amount of time would take considerable knowledge of the the entire game. Not going to talk me out of buying this epic release. Elder Scrolls has too good of a reputation for me not to give it a go.
Wow thats pretty crazy.. This is a must play, Im going to wait a while to get it... When all the DLC is out, player mods, patches and the price goes down.. Ill be too busy with another game coming out soon to buy it for full price..
I dont even want to know how many hours I played Morrowwind / oblivion lol
I just never liked the monsters leveling up with me, so with that last one I did main story first and then played around with the world.
Oblivion was thankfully the only TES, or even the only Bethesda title that had such a godawful feature. Even the Fallout series under Bethesda's umbrella didn't have it. And thankfully again, modders for Oblivion gave players an option to play without it.
When I first heard of it, I thought it was cool. The idea of the game grading things up to match my character improvements seemed nice. But during play, I realized it absolutely killed the drive to level up and see more of the world. It absolutely destroyed the notion of feeling progress with my character.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Comments
Honestly I didn't expect a legitimate answer. Thank you for proving me wrong.
I'd wager a guess that most companies don't know even the basics of MMOG design, and those that do can still falter as easily as the newbies (e.g. Mythic).
Bioware's mistake was creating a WoW clone, I agree, but I don't think it's fair to say Bethesda or any company would make the same mistake. Hopefully TOR will be a flop so the rest of the companies start innovating. :P
Sarcasm is not a crime!
Well done ... Not worrying so much about lack of content either (even though Swtor will have a metric ton more :P )
I must have played a thousand hours of Oblivion and Morrowind, (excluding modding).
I only finished the main storyline in Morrowind .... once. Never in Oblivion.
The sidequests, mod content and modding and random dungeons in TES games always appealed much more to me. I just can't immerse myself much in being an overpowered "chosen one / savior of the world". Read too much crappy fantasy books about that.
My brand new bloggity blog.
And Fallout2, one of greatest cRPGs known to mankind, was beatable in less than 30 minutes if you used a very specific path and build.
Sandboxy games don't focus on main storyline, they are about running around and doing silly things and tons of side quests, that's where the playtime goes into. Then there is also modding which further changes the game, sometimes completely.
Can't relaly see the issue so far.
I posted the article because I found it interesting. If you don't like it then you don't have to read it.
And I've just watched the entire LOTR trilogy of 11 hours in under 3 seconds! I just scrolled the sliders - where are the articles about my amazing feat?
Seriously, doing a speed run of a RPG is probably the second pointless thing ever. It was outranked only by articles that write about it.
My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570
What a dumb topic is this:(
Skyrim is not about beating the main quest if you realy think that you have beat the game by doing main quest i advice choosing another game becouse you don't have clue about what Elder Scrolls serie is all about.
Ots a sandbox under the solo RPG'S where you have to explore and freely roaming around finding all its secrets and live for a while in this world. Not how fast you go its totally unimportend
I have feeling that someone who hates Elder Scroll this wanne put it in a negative spotlight hoping it would not sell many copys. Maybe even someone from bioware or fan who are jealous how Bethesda make such GREAT solo rpg's
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Oh look, another excuse for the masses to hipster on about sandboxes.
Bleh.
Honestly i would love to have a joint ventre of bathesda as well as bioware into a mmorpg over only one or the other, mostly because if they allowed bio to do the quests and story while bethesda to do the world and such it would fit well to their strrengths well. Though i would want them to by the ip for the origanal phastasy star series 1-4 and make an mmo in that univrerse not how either of the others did it.
So what? Doesn't hide the fact your Themeparks are still 1 trick ponies
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I dont think I fully understand this statement, but I think it means its another excuse for the masses to say that they like sandboxes and sandboxes are cooler?
If thats what your saying then its because sandboxes are better. If there was Mass Effect and a Sandbox equivilant of Mass Effect then the likely hood that the Sandbox would be more popular is high. Reason being is that you usually can get many more hours out of them. That or they have a higher replayability.
These games must be meant for the new age D&Ders, because I can't stand them. Yes, there are tons of side quests to do that can rack up hours into the 100's, but why? The story line in both FO3 and FONV were terrible, there was 0 character development. I don't get what you people see is so enjoyable in these types of games.
Do you role play that since you helped random person at random villager that you then feel better about yourself. There's no emotionally gripping dialogue or event chains (very very few of these) that make what you did mean anything whatsoever in the future parts of the game. I guess I just lack the creativity to care about doing side quests that dont have any real influence.
I'd much rather take a traditional JRPG which include actual characters with real emotional development, a thought out plot, and a main storyline that takes more than 3 hours to beat. If I'm playing a single player game it's for the story/character attachment, not so I can go around racking up achievements/village status. That's what MMOs are for.
Those are actualy the biggest problems in mmorpg's these days and why they are failing , they should be about the world and living in it , not teleportmountspeedlevel to the end of it .
Mass Effect are just as much a sandbox as Skyrim will be.
You wonder round a big map do quest and exploring at certain points.
Wondering around for 600 hours killing respawning mobs and collecting piles of cash/crap ain't no sodding Sandbox.
Bethseda games (and I am not going to call them RPGs because they aren't )are nothing but Themeparks stuck in a Groundhog Day style time loop.
You do all the rides and wait, bam everything is reset and you can do it.
Just like World of Warcraft and other MMORPGs.
If Oblivion/Fallout 3 are Sandboxes, every single MMORPG out there is too. Because the only difference is number of players.
If Fallout 3 is a sandbox, why can't I take over Tenpenny Tower and move the poor kids from Little Lamplight and Big Town in.
Why can't I stop the Enclave spawning? Depsite taking out 3 of their bases.
Why can't I stop the Supermutants from spawning by joining the Brotherhood of Steel in an attack on Vault 87.
Why can't I make a base/house/settlement anyway where I want instead of decorating preset, prebuilt houses.
Why can't I change or effect the world anyway I damm well please.
Oh right because its not a sodding Sandbox, is a themepark thats been invaded by a carnival and so there is pointless little stalls every 2 feet.
Because you can have two minutes of fame and make tens of thousands of gamers upset.
What I can't figure out is why the "omg2ez" players collect this data to depress themselves with.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
2 HOURS!!!!
That's frigging awesome. Oblivion was quoted at 1 hour and i beat it the first time in slightly over 80 hours, so according to the math ill be getting about 160 hours on my first run. SWEET NEWS!!!
Thanks man, you totally made my day.
Because it's not feasible with current technology. The payout for having a system where you could drastically change the entire game right now would not be worth the time needed to create such a thing. =
Also: wandering.
WHA?! Oh wait this is an opinion.
Good grief. I'm 40 hours into Fallout 3 and I'm nowhere close to beating the game. I've gone off on so many side quests I'm not even sure I remember why I'm wandering around the stupid wasteland.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
okay, most people still plan on getting skyrim.........
==========================
The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
I've beaten Morrowind in far less time, once you know where everything is you need. It usually doesn't take long at all to beat a game like this. If you think this can be done by someone who doesn't know the main quest in and out, all I have to say is LAWL.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your definition of "Sandbox" is inherently flawed due to the nature of technology and the limits that come with it. Name me a single sandbox game where you can do anything you desire. What's that? You can't? What a pity.
I'll give you the definition of Sandbox as it applies to video games:
A game where there is no right or wrong way to play.
The "main quest" makes up probably 10% of a given Bethesda game, but something like 90% of a Bioware game. You can do whatever you want within the limits of the game code in Fallout 3, but Bioware attempts to force you through their tired storyline every step of the way.
Next, what makes an RPG? You create a character, give him/her a face/name/strengths/weaknesses, and send him out into the world. Just like in pen and paper games, the game (rulebook) limits how far you can take the customization.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
Fantastic analogy. I think Skyrim to be beaten in that amount of time would take considerable knowledge of the the entire game. Not going to talk me out of buying this epic release. Elder Scrolls has too good of a reputation for me not to give it a go.
I just never liked the monsters leveling up with me, so with that last one I did main story first and then played around with the world.
Wow thats pretty crazy.. This is a must play, Im going to wait a while to get it... When all the DLC is out, player mods, patches and the price goes down.. Ill be too busy with another game coming out soon to buy it for full price..
I dont even want to know how many hours I played Morrowwind / oblivion lol
Oblivion was thankfully the only TES, or even the only Bethesda title that had such a godawful feature. Even the Fallout series under Bethesda's umbrella didn't have it. And thankfully again, modders for Oblivion gave players an option to play without it.
When I first heard of it, I thought it was cool. The idea of the game grading things up to match my character improvements seemed nice. But during play, I realized it absolutely killed the drive to level up and see more of the world. It absolutely destroyed the notion of feeling progress with my character.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)