The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout 3) aren't about beating the main quest. It is about exploring the world, roleplay you actually live there (optional), doing the many (tons) of sidequests...and whatever other stuff there is to do in an Elder Scrolls game.
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
Originally posted by Isasis The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout 3) aren't about beating the main quest. It is about exploring the world, roleplay you actually live there (optional), doing the many (tons) of sidequests...and whatever other stuff there is to do in an Elder Scrolls game.
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
No, they focused more on being a singleplayer sandbox game. You can beat any one of their games in a short amount of time. However, like others have said it is all about the journey and going out into the world and adventuring. Exploration and discovery > linear story in these type of games.
I'll say this last thing. In Morrowind, I probably clocked in more than 600 hours just exploring, trading, thieving, etc. and I've only beaten the main quest once and that was toward the end of the time I stopped playing the game like mad.
The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout 3) aren't about beating the main quest. It is about exploring the world, roleplay you actually live there (optional), doing the many (tons) of sidequests...and whatever other stuff there is to do in an Elder Scrolls game.
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
No, they focused more on being a singleplayer sandbox game. You can beat any one of their games in a short amount of time. However, like others have said it is all about the journey and going out into the world and adventuring. Exploration and discovery > linear story in these type of games.
I'll say this last thing. In Morrowind, I probably clocked in more than 600 hours just exploring, trading, thieving, etc. and I've only beaten the main quest once and that was toward the end of the time I stopped playing the game like mad.
Sorry I can't agree...RPGs with a less than fantastic main story arc just don't cut it anymore. Sure cutting logs in the forest is all very well, but why sacrifice a decent length story for the side stuff. The main quest is doable in less than ten hours for most players, that is just too short for games now.
The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout 3) aren't about beating the main quest. It is about exploring the world, roleplay you actually live there (optional), doing the many (tons) of sidequests...and whatever other stuff there is to do in an Elder Scrolls game.
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
No, they focused more on being a singleplayer sandbox game. You can beat any one of their games in a short amount of time. However, like others have said it is all about the journey and going out into the world and adventuring. Exploration and discovery > linear story in these type of games.
I'll say this last thing. In Morrowind, I probably clocked in more than 600 hours just exploring, trading, thieving, etc. and I've only beaten the main quest once and that was toward the end of the time I stopped playing the game like mad.
Sorry I can't agree...RPGs with a less than fantastic main story arc just don't cut it anymore. Sure cutting logs in the forest is all very well, but why sacrifice a decent length story for the side stuff. The main quest is doable in less than ten hours for most players, that is just too short for games now.
Have you ever played a Bethesda game? O_o
I may have completed the main story in a few hours, but I played the game for over 200 before doing so. And then I went back for another 200 hours. Some awful main story of "wake up, find two companions, explore ancient ruins, be contacted by evil organization, choose good/evil, go to four places to beat the game" is boring when compared to a huge open map where you can pretty much do anything you want.
The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout 3) aren't about beating the main quest. It is about exploring the world, roleplay you actually live there (optional), doing the many (tons) of sidequests...and whatever other stuff there is to do in an Elder Scrolls game.
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
No, they focused more on being a singleplayer sandbox game. You can beat any one of their games in a short amount of time. However, like others have said it is all about the journey and going out into the world and adventuring. Exploration and discovery > linear story in these type of games.
I'll say this last thing. In Morrowind, I probably clocked in more than 600 hours just exploring, trading, thieving, etc. and I've only beaten the main quest once and that was toward the end of the time I stopped playing the game like mad.
Sorry I can't agree...RPGs with a less than fantastic main story arc just don't cut it anymore. Sure cutting logs in the forest is all very well, but why sacrifice a decent length story for the side stuff. The main quest is doable in less than ten hours for most players, that is just too short for games now.
Have you ever played a Bethesda game? O_o
I may have completed the main story in a few hours, but I played the game for over 200 before doing so. And then I went back for another 200 hours. Some awful main story of "wake up, find two companions, explore ancient ruins, be contacted by evil organization, choose good/evil, go to four places to beat the game" is boring when compared to a huge open map where you can pretty much do anything you want.
Perhaps you just lack creativity.
I just think that is a dated approach now. 5 years ago the this world is huge with large numbers of small side stuff was good enough. By not giving us a major story arc of more than 10 hrs Skyrim is losing on a key element in modern RPG games. To be honest after endless sim games there is no real fun in just the here is a new sandbox, people want story in the RPG.
The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout 3) aren't about beating the main quest. It is about exploring the world, roleplay you actually live there (optional), doing the many (tons) of sidequests...and whatever other stuff there is to do in an Elder Scrolls game.
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
No, they focused more on being a singleplayer sandbox game. You can beat any one of their games in a short amount of time. However, like others have said it is all about the journey and going out into the world and adventuring. Exploration and discovery > linear story in these type of games.
I'll say this last thing. In Morrowind, I probably clocked in more than 600 hours just exploring, trading, thieving, etc. and I've only beaten the main quest once and that was toward the end of the time I stopped playing the game like mad.
Sorry I can't agree...RPGs with a less than fantastic main story arc just don't cut it anymore. Sure cutting logs in the forest is all very well, but why sacrifice a decent length story for the side stuff. The main quest is doable in less than ten hours for most players, that is just too short for games now.
Have you ever played a Bethesda game? O_o
I may have completed the main story in a few hours, but I played the game for over 200 before doing so. And then I went back for another 200 hours. Some awful main story of "wake up, find two companions, explore ancient ruins, be contacted by evil organization, choose good/evil, go to four places to beat the game" is boring when compared to a huge open map where you can pretty much do anything you want.
Perhaps you just lack creativity.
I just think that is a dated approach now. 5 years ago the this world is huge with large numbers of small side stuff was good enough. By not giving us a major story arc of more than 10 hrs Skyrim is losing on a key element in modern RPG games. To be honest after endless sim games there is no real fun in just the here is a new sandbox, people want story in the RPG.
Game sales disagree with you. 90% of this thread disagrees with you.
A pre-written story is an element of single player games, not RPGs. "RPG" assumes you aren't forced into a specific role, which is the case for any game that focuses on the story.
You're stating your opinions as fact. Say "I want" instead of "people want" please. :P
The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout 3) aren't about beating the main quest. It is about exploring the world, roleplay you actually live there (optional), doing the many (tons) of sidequests...and whatever other stuff there is to do in an Elder Scrolls game.
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
No, they focused more on being a singleplayer sandbox game. You can beat any one of their games in a short amount of time. However, like others have said it is all about the journey and going out into the world and adventuring. Exploration and discovery > linear story in these type of games.
I'll say this last thing. In Morrowind, I probably clocked in more than 600 hours just exploring, trading, thieving, etc. and I've only beaten the main quest once and that was toward the end of the time I stopped playing the game like mad.
Sorry I can't agree...RPGs with a less than fantastic main story arc just don't cut it anymore. Sure cutting logs in the forest is all very well, but why sacrifice a decent length story for the side stuff. The main quest is doable in less than ten hours for most players, that is just too short for games now.
Have you ever played a Bethesda game? O_o
I may have completed the main story in a few hours, but I played the game for over 200 before doing so. And then I went back for another 200 hours. Some awful main story of "wake up, find two companions, explore ancient ruins, be contacted by evil organization, choose good/evil, go to four places to beat the game" is boring when compared to a huge open map where you can pretty much do anything you want.
Perhaps you just lack creativity.
I just think that is a dated approach now. 5 years ago the this world is huge with large numbers of small side stuff was good enough. By not giving us a major story arc of more than 10 hrs Skyrim is losing on a key element in modern RPG games. To be honest after endless sim games there is no real fun in just the here is a new sandbox, people want story in the RPG.
Game sales disagree with you. 90% of this thread disagrees with you.
A pre-written story is an element of single player games, not RPGs. "RPG" assumes you aren't forced into a specific role, which is the case for any game that focuses on the story.
You're stating your opinions as fact. Say "I want" instead of "people want" please. :P
I don't agree with your self-created definition. IN any case, the industry is what it is and who are you to say otherwise? You are nobody.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The Elder Scrolls (and Fallout 3) aren't about beating the main quest. It is about exploring the world, roleplay you actually live there (optional), doing the many (tons) of sidequests...and whatever other stuff there is to do in an Elder Scrolls game.
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
No, they focused more on being a singleplayer sandbox game. You can beat any one of their games in a short amount of time. However, like others have said it is all about the journey and going out into the world and adventuring. Exploration and discovery > linear story in these type of games.
I'll say this last thing. In Morrowind, I probably clocked in more than 600 hours just exploring, trading, thieving, etc. and I've only beaten the main quest once and that was toward the end of the time I stopped playing the game like mad.
Sorry I can't agree...RPGs with a less than fantastic main story arc just don't cut it anymore. Sure cutting logs in the forest is all very well, but why sacrifice a decent length story for the side stuff. The main quest is doable in less than ten hours for most players, that is just too short for games now.
Have you ever played a Bethesda game? O_o
I may have completed the main story in a few hours, but I played the game for over 200 before doing so. And then I went back for another 200 hours. Some awful main story of "wake up, find two companions, explore ancient ruins, be contacted by evil organization, choose good/evil, go to four places to beat the game" is boring when compared to a huge open map where you can pretty much do anything you want.
Perhaps you just lack creativity.
I just think that is a dated approach now. 5 years ago the this world is huge with large numbers of small side stuff was good enough. By not giving us a major story arc of more than 10 hrs Skyrim is losing on a key element in modern RPG games. To be honest after endless sim games there is no real fun in just the here is a new sandbox, people want story in the RPG.
Game sales disagree with you. 90% of this thread disagrees with you.
A pre-written story is an element of single player games, not RPGs. "RPG" assumes you aren't forced into a specific role, which is the case for any game that focuses on the story.
You're stating your opinions as fact. Say "I want" instead of "people want" please. :P
I don't agree with your self-created definition. IN any case, the industry is what it is and who are you to say otherwise? You are nobody.
I'm not saying otherwise. The industry supports my argument in its entirety with strong sales from games with open-world elements and little story.
Unless you're talking about the definition of RPG, in which case you're right with the modern definition, but in the context of this argument (which is to say, 'more pre-written story, less creation of story'), it fits perfectly due to the further movement away from the modern definition.
i spent the $60.00 on Rage Anarchy Edition. from ID. i got 40 hours playing it through one time. it was beautiful. the AI is amazing, the combat and weapons were spectacular. The driving part of the game is so clean and responsive and fun.
It was like going to disneyland for a week, for 60 bucks. and i will say i had more fun in Rage in 40 hours from start to finish, then the years i have played MMOs. I have finals next week then im going to try it on Nightmare level. It was scary in parts which got my hair up, and reminded me i hadn't finished Dead Space 2 yet.
Favorite mission, was Jackal Canyon. i have never seen anything so pretty. favorite game aspect about Rage, was the AI. two mobs in a room, one with his back to the other. i shot the one behind. he dead. the other turns around and says " did you hear what i said? hey!! he's dead. what the ...."
pure enjoyment. that's how i like my games. like a good book i can't put it down.
I also vote for a Bethesda MMO. or an Id games MMO. actually a combination of Id games combat, Dead Island theme, set in a bethesda designed world. would be primo.
40! How!
I did every quest in the game, along with all the races, and mutant bash a few times, as well as riding around blowing up bandits for some time, and I still finished in under 15 hours. I'm beyond furious over the game. How in the world do you have 40 hours in it?
Honestly, for the guys who have never played Bethesda's RPGs, they generally follow several guidelines. In no particular order for at least the vanilla version of the games:
A) Open Gameplay - There is a main questline that you can follow. If you want to. Otherwise, you are free to wonder off in whatever compass direction to explore, discover, fight, loot, talk, trade with NPCs, etc. There's tons of sidequests to engage in.
Open Game World - Related to Point A, the open nature of their games. Again, you start the game past the basic tutorial, drop into the game world. They tell you what you can do next for the central questline. Otherwise, you can ignore it and go wherever you want. You are not forced down a funnel to play their RPGs (TES or FO games). You are not forced to a specific direction. You can realistically, upon getting into the main world, open the world map, see an interesting point, i.e. a castle or city, and think to yourself, "I want to go there." Then you travel to your destination. Along the way, you'll discover and encounter a variety of things. Their games also reward the player that says, "F*ck the road. What's behind those hills over there?" Alot of the most memorable experiences of their games are due to discoveries, encounters for taking the unbeaten path.
In short, Bethesda RPGs have an emphasis on letting players do whatever they want, within the limitations of what the character can do. And they usually have sprinkled many things throughout their game worlds. That is the heart of their RPGs, that is why there's excitement over Skyrim, a return to Bethesda's signature RPG series that got them any sort of reputation to begin.
===========
I love the open nature of their RPGs. I can play, explore, and adventure without a Ball & Chain tied to me, hindering my gaming experience. I don't like being told that I can only progress or see more of a game only if I follow specified paths. I don't like being led by the ear. I've beaten their RPGs except for Daggerfall. But their open nature of RPGs is what enabled me to have numerous characters over their games that have never beaten the main quest, nor have I tried with these extra characters. Frankly, I didn't care too much about the main quests other than seeing it through the first time. What I did care about was essentially this: Taking a look at the big game world map and thinking to myself about all the different places I can encounter and the different things I can do in the game.
If Bethesda can do that again with Skyrim, that's pure platinum for me. If modders can do their Skyrim mods with the same dedication and quality as in past TES / Fallout titles to spice up everyone's gaming experience, then that's priceless.
If Bethesda's done that with Skyrim, bring it f*cking on, I say.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
As I mentioned in another thread, Oblvion cuold probably be beaten very quickly and I believe there used to be a thread on how to beat morrowind in something like 30 minutes or so.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
There's nothing wrong with an open world or sims RPG. The issue, though, becomes all to evident when you put into it a main quest that can be beaten in just a few hours...it just reflects the fact that Bethesda aren't good at writing epic plots or story arcs. Yes pidling arround in the game world will be fun for a few days, after that I will just head to the end and move onto other games.
They do this with every Bethesda game. Or rather they've done it with Oblivion and Fallout 3. Skyrim took an additional hour to beat on the speed run than either of those two games.
Which is to say that Oblivion and Fallout 3 took around an hour to beat on a speed run. So does Skyrim take longer to speed run than either Oblivion or Fallout 3 ? The answer is yes. It takes twice as long than either of those two games.
There's nothing wrong with an open world or sims RPG. The issue, though, becomes all to evident when you put into it a main quest that can be beaten in just a few hours...it just reflects the fact that Bethesda aren't good at writing epic plots or story arcs. Yes pidling arround in the game world will be fun for a few days, after that I will just head to the end and move onto other games.
Trust me when I say that "piddling around in the game world" for a few days only and then return to the main quest doesn't happen in Bethesda RPGs. There's a tremendous amount of stuff that is to be discovered. Their RPGs are to the point in that you can find yourself doing all these random things in the game world and totally forget about the main quest. And you are not penalized for it. You are not forced in any way to go down the main or side quests. Very few RPGs allow players to discover and do so much in a game world.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
There's nothing wrong with an open world or sims RPG. The issue, though, becomes all to evident when you put into it a main quest that can be beaten in just a few hours...it just reflects the fact that Bethesda aren't good at writing epic plots or story arcs. Yes pidling arround in the game world will be fun for a few days, after that I will just head to the end and move onto other games.
If your only doing the main story arc, and speeding through it at that, then your not doing it right...which may sound like a contradiction because it's a open world game, but you'd essentially be skipping the entire game. Bethesda isn't bioware, they don't hold your hand and tell you a story, you're suppose to adventure and explore the story yourself (and the huge open world they made for you), that's the entire appeal of bethesda games in the first place. To say they can't write story arcs would be false imo, because their are many in their games, and they aren't any worse or better then the industry standard, subpar, video game stories anyway.
There's nothing wrong with an open world or sims RPG. The issue, though, becomes all to evident when you put into it a main quest that can be beaten in just a few hours...it just reflects the fact that Bethesda aren't good at writing epic plots or story arcs. Yes pidling arround in the game world will be fun for a few days, after that I will just head to the end and move onto other games.
If your only doing the main story arc, and speeding through it at that, then your not doing it right...which may sound like a contradiction because it's a open world game, but you'd essentially be skipping the entire game. Bethesda isn't bioware, they don't hold your hand and tell you a story, you're suppose to adventure and explore the story yourself (and the huge open world they made for you), that's the entire appeal of bethesda games in the first place. To say they can't write story arcs would be false imo, because their are many in their games, and they aren't any worse or better then the industry standard, subpar, video game stories anyway.
I could be wrong here, but I also assume a speed run is tackling the main quest line. Which is one quest line out of how many? Hundreds? Not sure.
And for an experienced tester, who's had months (no telling how long) with the game to play it and get familiar with it, it took him about 2 hours and 16 minutes.
FOR ONE QUEST LINE. The main one. But regardless thats one long quest line in and off itself. And again, my point is, thats just one single dinky quest line of a game populated with tons of quests, towns, guilds etc. In other words? Thats one big game right there.
What I want to know is what are people comparing game stories to? I always hear about how mediocre Bethsoft stories are yet I don't find them to be all that different from Bioware as an example, top scale voice acting, tried and true story beats, simple and to the point plots. There is a difference in NPC presentation, in say Oblivion compared to Mass Effect. However there's so much going on in a beth game that makes that difference a reasonable oversight.
Are we trying to compare game stories to hardcore literature here or what?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You know, everyone is complaining about this game stating "Oh it's ONLY 2 hrs". But yet Oblivion, a game that has TONS of following, was beaten in JUST over an hour. Same for FO3. Quit complaining.
FFS take gripes elsewhere. This entire site has become nothing but 2 groups calling each other stupid. If it isn't TOR, then it's Skyrim, or GW2. This game sucks, that game sucks. You haven't played the game, so you have ZERO applicable opinion right now as to length.
Wow, Dejah vu. Read the same article about Oblivion at it's release.
The fact is that besides Daggerfall have all the Elder scrolls games had a rather short and basic main story, the interesting part have always (even in Daggerfall that was the largest of them all) been the sidequests and the huge sandbox you have as well.
If you just want to complete it as fast as possible you shouldn't get a Bethesda game, not ever.
To be honest I find two hours too long for a Bethesda main story. I'm currently playing Morrowind and, discounting the walking time in between quests, I firmly believe I can finish it in about thirty minutes. As for Oblivion, I remembered I finished it in about four hours or so on my first run (I just leveled my char and I got irritated by the oblivion portals that I accidentally activated because I took the Kvatch quest, so I decided to finish the main quest).
What I want to know is what are people comparing game stories to? I always hear about how mediocre Bethsoft stories are yet I don't find them to be all that different from Bioware as an example, top scale voice acting, tried and true story beats, simple and to the point plots. There is a difference in NPC presentation, in say Oblivion compared to Mass Effect. However there's so much going on in a beth game that makes that difference a reasonable oversight.
Are we trying to compare game stories to hardcore literature here or what?
This is what I've been saying for a long time. There are some video games with very bad stories, but I don't find any of them to be above and beyond the others, and that includes bioware stories. Video game stories are jsut very subpar. And it's how the games choose to present those subpar stories that I think should be judged. bioware makes good npcs and voice overs and stuff like that, while companies like bethesda present it by making a world and letting you loose in it.
Ive been reading a series of posts from a poster that is trying to discredit Bethesda and TES series. It's so laughable.
Trying to compare how Bethesda offers gameplay to players? Trying to tell how Bethesda is 'bad' because it's not using a technique used by other game companies?
Lol. Bethesda is known and loved for this type of game. They have a firm grasp on it. I already read a statement of Bioware about Bethesda being 10 years advance (comparing to Bioware) in breathing life into game worlds.
"We’re good at telling structural character-driven narratives. That’s our really big strength so for us to get to where Bethesda was on their sense of place, we’d have to work on it for ten years." -bioware
Comments
Less than 10 hrs is really short length for a main quest no matter how much side stuff there is to do. I am guessing Bethesda focused a bit too much on eye candy outside of the main story arc leaving little to it.
I'll say this last thing. In Morrowind, I probably clocked in more than 600 hours just exploring, trading, thieving, etc. and I've only beaten the main quest once and that was toward the end of the time I stopped playing the game like mad.
BOOYAKA!
Sorry I can't agree...RPGs with a less than fantastic main story arc just don't cut it anymore. Sure cutting logs in the forest is all very well, but why sacrifice a decent length story for the side stuff. The main quest is doable in less than ten hours for most players, that is just too short for games now.
Have you ever played a Bethesda game? O_o
I may have completed the main story in a few hours, but I played the game for over 200 before doing so. And then I went back for another 200 hours. Some awful main story of "wake up, find two companions, explore ancient ruins, be contacted by evil organization, choose good/evil, go to four places to beat the game" is boring when compared to a huge open map where you can pretty much do anything you want.
Perhaps you just lack creativity.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
I just think that is a dated approach now. 5 years ago the this world is huge with large numbers of small side stuff was good enough. By not giving us a major story arc of more than 10 hrs Skyrim is losing on a key element in modern RPG games. To be honest after endless sim games there is no real fun in just the here is a new sandbox, people want story in the RPG.
Game sales disagree with you. 90% of this thread disagrees with you.
A pre-written story is an element of single player games, not RPGs. "RPG" assumes you aren't forced into a specific role, which is the case for any game that focuses on the story.
You're stating your opinions as fact. Say "I want" instead of "people want" please. :P
Sarcasm is not a crime!
I don't agree with your self-created definition. IN any case, the industry is what it is and who are you to say otherwise? You are nobody.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I'm not saying otherwise. The industry supports my argument in its entirety with strong sales from games with open-world elements and little story.
Unless you're talking about the definition of RPG, in which case you're right with the modern definition, but in the context of this argument (which is to say, 'more pre-written story, less creation of story'), it fits perfectly due to the further movement away from the modern definition.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
40! How!
I did every quest in the game, along with all the races, and mutant bash a few times, as well as riding around blowing up bandits for some time, and I still finished in under 15 hours. I'm beyond furious over the game. How in the world do you have 40 hours in it?
Honestly, for the guys who have never played Bethesda's RPGs, they generally follow several guidelines. In no particular order for at least the vanilla version of the games:
A) Open Gameplay - There is a main questline that you can follow. If you want to. Otherwise, you are free to wonder off in whatever compass direction to explore, discover, fight, loot, talk, trade with NPCs, etc. There's tons of sidequests to engage in.
In short, Bethesda RPGs have an emphasis on letting players do whatever they want, within the limitations of what the character can do. And they usually have sprinkled many things throughout their game worlds. That is the heart of their RPGs, that is why there's excitement over Skyrim, a return to Bethesda's signature RPG series that got them any sort of reputation to begin.
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I love the open nature of their RPGs. I can play, explore, and adventure without a Ball & Chain tied to me, hindering my gaming experience. I don't like being told that I can only progress or see more of a game only if I follow specified paths. I don't like being led by the ear. I've beaten their RPGs except for Daggerfall. But their open nature of RPGs is what enabled me to have numerous characters over their games that have never beaten the main quest, nor have I tried with these extra characters. Frankly, I didn't care too much about the main quests other than seeing it through the first time. What I did care about was essentially this: Taking a look at the big game world map and thinking to myself about all the different places I can encounter and the different things I can do in the game.
If Bethesda can do that again with Skyrim, that's pure platinum for me. If modders can do their Skyrim mods with the same dedication and quality as in past TES / Fallout titles to spice up everyone's gaming experience, then that's priceless.
If Bethesda's done that with Skyrim, bring it f*cking on, I say.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
As I mentioned in another thread, Oblvion cuold probably be beaten very quickly and I believe there used to be a thread on how to beat morrowind in something like 30 minutes or so.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That's actually about average if someone speeds through the main quest and has a good feel for the mechanics.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
There's nothing wrong with an open world or sims RPG. The issue, though, becomes all to evident when you put into it a main quest that can be beaten in just a few hours...it just reflects the fact that Bethesda aren't good at writing epic plots or story arcs. Yes pidling arround in the game world will be fun for a few days, after that I will just head to the end and move onto other games.
They do this with every Bethesda game. Or rather they've done it with Oblivion and Fallout 3. Skyrim took an additional hour to beat on the speed run than either of those two games.
Which is to say that Oblivion and Fallout 3 took around an hour to beat on a speed run. So does Skyrim take longer to speed run than either Oblivion or Fallout 3 ? The answer is yes. It takes twice as long than either of those two games.
Just thought Id clear that up.
Linky:
http://origin-www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/10/13/bethesda-qa-tester-beats-skyrim-in-2-16-10-in-speedrun-challenge.aspx?PageIndex=3
"Bethesda also revealed that the Skyrim speedrun took a full hour longer than the speedruns for Oblivion and Fallout 3."
Trust me when I say that "piddling around in the game world" for a few days only and then return to the main quest doesn't happen in Bethesda RPGs. There's a tremendous amount of stuff that is to be discovered. Their RPGs are to the point in that you can find yourself doing all these random things in the game world and totally forget about the main quest. And you are not penalized for it. You are not forced in any way to go down the main or side quests. Very few RPGs allow players to discover and do so much in a game world.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
If your only doing the main story arc, and speeding through it at that, then your not doing it right...which may sound like a contradiction because it's a open world game, but you'd essentially be skipping the entire game. Bethesda isn't bioware, they don't hold your hand and tell you a story, you're suppose to adventure and explore the story yourself (and the huge open world they made for you), that's the entire appeal of bethesda games in the first place. To say they can't write story arcs would be false imo, because their are many in their games, and they aren't any worse or better then the industry standard, subpar, video game stories anyway.
I could be wrong here, but I also assume a speed run is tackling the main quest line. Which is one quest line out of how many? Hundreds? Not sure.
And for an experienced tester, who's had months (no telling how long) with the game to play it and get familiar with it, it took him about 2 hours and 16 minutes.
FOR ONE QUEST LINE. The main one. But regardless thats one long quest line in and off itself. And again, my point is, thats just one single dinky quest line of a game populated with tons of quests, towns, guilds etc. In other words? Thats one big game right there.
Bethesda games have main storylines?
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
What I want to know is what are people comparing game stories to? I always hear about how mediocre Bethsoft stories are yet I don't find them to be all that different from Bioware as an example, top scale voice acting, tried and true story beats, simple and to the point plots. There is a difference in NPC presentation, in say Oblivion compared to Mass Effect. However there's so much going on in a beth game that makes that difference a reasonable oversight.
Are we trying to compare game stories to hardcore literature here or what?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You know, everyone is complaining about this game stating "Oh it's ONLY 2 hrs". But yet Oblivion, a game that has TONS of following, was beaten in JUST over an hour. Same for FO3. Quit complaining.
FFS take gripes elsewhere. This entire site has become nothing but 2 groups calling each other stupid. If it isn't TOR, then it's Skyrim, or GW2. This game sucks, that game sucks. You haven't played the game, so you have ZERO applicable opinion right now as to length.
Wow, Dejah vu. Read the same article about Oblivion at it's release.
The fact is that besides Daggerfall have all the Elder scrolls games had a rather short and basic main story, the interesting part have always (even in Daggerfall that was the largest of them all) been the sidequests and the huge sandbox you have as well.
If you just want to complete it as fast as possible you shouldn't get a Bethesda game, not ever.
To be honest I find two hours too long for a Bethesda main story. I'm currently playing Morrowind and, discounting the walking time in between quests, I firmly believe I can finish it in about thirty minutes. As for Oblivion, I remembered I finished it in about four hours or so on my first run (I just leveled my char and I got irritated by the oblivion portals that I accidentally activated because I took the Kvatch quest, so I decided to finish the main quest).
My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
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This is what I've been saying for a long time. There are some video games with very bad stories, but I don't find any of them to be above and beyond the others, and that includes bioware stories. Video game stories are jsut very subpar. And it's how the games choose to present those subpar stories that I think should be judged. bioware makes good npcs and voice overs and stuff like that, while companies like bethesda present it by making a world and letting you loose in it.
Ive been reading a series of posts from a poster that is trying to discredit Bethesda and TES series. It's so laughable.
Trying to compare how Bethesda offers gameplay to players? Trying to tell how Bethesda is 'bad' because it's not using a technique used by other game companies?
Lol. Bethesda is known and loved for this type of game. They have a firm grasp on it. I already read a statement of Bioware about Bethesda being 10 years advance (comparing to Bioware) in breathing life into game worlds.
"We’re good at telling structural character-driven narratives. That’s our really big strength so for us to get to where Bethesda was on their sense of place, we’d have to work on it for ten years." -bioware
link: http://gamebanshee.com/news/104993-bioware-considers-bethesda-10-years-ahead-on-open-world-design.html
Anyway, it's like telling an abstract painter that his creations aren't good coz they aren't realistic. Lol.
To each his own style of presentation.
My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
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Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
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Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion