Humans are social animals. If they aren't socializing in game, then something is wrong with the games. It's not the solo content. If you have forced grouping, the players don't socialize more, they leave.
The social tools available in game haven't changed since 2002. It's almost 2012. Things like text chat in phones, MySpace, Facebook and Twitter have changed the way that people socialize on line. Mmorpg need to catch up.
There are many ways that mmorpg limit the number of people that you would ever want to talk to. You can only be a member of one permanent group (guild). You must be available for any idiot and gold spammer to talk to. In game email is clunky. In short, in game social tools should work a lot more like Facebook, not Aol.
Ah "forced grouping" that old chestnut. It is akin to calling a game mechanic that requires just one individual "forced isolationism". Unless a game is immediately ramming you into a group each and every time you log on and you are incapable of attempting any kind of interaction or mechanic in the game world at all without a group of players then there is no "forced grouping". Amazingly more often then not if players have to interact with others in an MMO they do just that, they don't all up sticks and quit. Those who would rather leave than work with others could be called... antisocial.
Humans may indeed be social animals but they are also animals that chase after the path of least resistance. If a game is going to offer more and more content which the player can blast through without having to interact with others, then you can be sure that a significant amount of them will do exactly that. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just that it is.
People also do indeed socialise with a select minority within the context of the majority, but then that does not mean that it is a good thing socially to reduce the interaction with said majority. People also need to keep in mind that the whole interacting with the community thing is not about having to get 5 more other people together to do a raid, it is also interacting with player merchants, crafters et al. Games increasingly marginalise the need for interaction.
As for updated communication tools, isn't that exactly what voice comms are?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I couldnt agree more with the OP and hopefully some brave Dev team will come up with a soultion and not give in to the whining instant gratification brats of modern gamers.
I think your answer lies in joining a small game like Vanguard. Those games have a small population that help each other out. Successful games do not attract people who like to play with others because the game has many ways to solo and avoid interaction if need be. Although you can if you search hard find a few people even in WoW who are like minded. It is just that the population being so large the chances of finding like minded folks dwindle considearbly.
Yeah, its weird for me to read this thread.
I help people all the time in Vanguard ... I'm kinda surprised to read this doesnt happen in other MMOs.
It happens all too often in most mmo's lately. It is the main reason I quit Rift because they took too much examplke from WoW by allowing everyone to instantly get help but the never stick around to say more than two words or do more than one quest in a row like mmo groups used to be a few years ago. People just want an easy button and forget being sociable to someone who helps them take down a boss.
I think your answer lies in joining a small game like Vanguard. Those games have a small population that help each other out. Successful games do not attract people who like to play with others because the game has many ways to solo and avoid interaction if need be. Although you can if you search hard find a few people even in WoW who are like minded. It is just that the population being so large the chances of finding like minded folks dwindle considearbly.
Yeah, its weird for me to read this thread.
I help people all the time in Vanguard ... I'm kinda surprised to read this doesnt happen in other MMOs.
Almost makes me want to cry to read this =(
I have probably been unlucky, but in the MMOs I have tried recently it was more as OP describe. Well, at least now I can hope the next one is going to be as you describe.
Why cant people get that many players rather play solo and having a hard time doing that then joining a group and finishing stuff on easy mode?
Its also what type of game you are playing like when i play the normal hotbar type mmo i rather do it solo since most of them are already easy when playing solo and there is no danger AT ALL.
When i play darkfall (yes i play it) i always team up with people so i can shout an alarm to some people nearby when i get under heavy fire, There is danger in this game with both a unexpected big mob showing up out of nowhere that is almost unbeatable when ur alone on a rare occasion or a group of players wanting to kill you and steal your loot.
Why cant people get that many players rather play solo and having a hard time doing that then joining a group and finishing stuff on easy mode?
Its also what type of game you are playing like when i play the normal hotbar type mmo i rather do it solo since most of them are already easy when playing solo and there is no danger AT ALL.
When i play darkfall (yes i play it) i always team up with people so i can shout an alarm to some people nearby when i get under heavy fire, There is danger in this game with both a big rare mob showing up out of nowhere on a rare occasion or a group of players wanting to kill you and steal your loot.
It is more that a group shoudl level faster then a solo player since it takes more and has more to offer, but right nwo you can level roughly as faster as a group can with the system as is. Making it that grouping is going to yeild you a faster leveling exp over solo would make it more used by tthe community, yet people would still be able to solo as well.
Humans are social animals. If they aren't socializing in game, then something is wrong with the games. It's not the solo content. If you have forced grouping, the players don't socialize more, they leave.
The social tools available in game haven't changed since 2002. It's almost 2012. Things like text chat in phones, MySpace, Facebook and Twitter have changed the way that people socialize on line. Mmorpg need to catch up.
There are many ways that mmorpg limit the number of people that you would ever want to talk to. You can only be a member of one permanent group (guild). You must be available for any idiot and gold spammer to talk to. In game email is clunky. In short, in game social tools should work a lot more like Facebook, not Aol.
Ah "forced grouping" that old chestnut. It is akin to calling a game mechanic that requires just one individual "forced isolationism". Unless a game is immediately ramming you into a group each and every time you log on and you are incapable of attempting any kind of interaction or mechanic in the game world at all without a group of players then there is no "forced grouping". Amazingly more often then not if players have to interact with others in an MMO they do just that, they don't all up sticks and quit. Those who would rather leave than work with others could be called... antisocial.
Humans may indeed be social animals but they are also animals that chase after the path of least resistance. If a game is going to offer more and more content which the player can blast through without having to interact with others, then you can be sure that a significant amount of them will do exactly that. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just that it is.
People also do indeed socialise with a select minority within the context of the majority, but then that does not mean that it is a good thing socially to reduce the interaction with said majority. People also need to keep in mind that the whole interacting with the community thing is not about having to get 5 more other people together to do a raid, it is also interacting with player merchants, crafters et al. Games increasingly marginalise the need for interaction.
As for updated communication tools, isn't that exactly what voice comms are?
If what you are actually lamenting is lack of social interaction, then look for improved socialization tools inside mmorpg. Look for things modeled on Facebook or Twitter. Even MySpace is less primitive than what's available in mmorpg. For that matter, even Aol* had more options.
On the other hand if what you really want is that players be required to interact with each other for character progression, then say that. That's not socialization. That's putting a bunch of people in a skinner box and telling them they have to work together to get out.
* I am not advocating making mmorpg like Aol or anything Facebook. However, the tools and systems presented for people to socialize are far more advanced than what's in any mmorpg. Mmorpg developers could learn something from them.
** edit ** I should have the alternative to group mechanics and skinner boxes. Solo content is liking putting a bunch of people in a skinner box, and each of them can get out on their own, but with the option to talk to each other if they want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Could Massive be what's slowly eroding [from] MMO society?
Or is it just that lack of interdependence in games designed to be so totally soloable?
Both, with my injection of 'from' above. The label mmorpg is an inaccurate title for the vast majority of themepark pve-centric games. We all know it. The label just used by savvy studios to feed off that draw of the social illusion.
I happen to think that Trion made an effort to place massively-multiplayer back in mmo. Though without real game-play relevance or incentive to their attempt at cooperative and competitive community-centric interdependence involvement, ones' participation with the open-world dynamic events were really meaningless. Even the games coming out this year that carry that false mmorpg label, will be nothing but a solo & cooperative multiplayer game, with little to nothing "massively" about it, and which comes with it the continued soloability independent game-play attitude. That's not to say the journey can't be entertaining in such games.
If what you are actually lamenting is lack of social interaction, then look for improved socialization tools inside mmorpg. Look for things modeled on Facebook or Twitter. Even MySpace is less primitive than what's available in mmorpg. For that matter, even Aol* had more options.
On the other hand if what you really want is that players be required to interact with each other for character progression, then say that. That's not socialization. That's putting a bunch of people in a skinner box and telling them they have to work together to get out.
* I am not advocating making mmorpg like Aol or anything Facebook. However, the tools and systems presented for people to socialize are far more advanced than what's in any mmorpg. Mmorpg developers could learn something from them.
** edit **
I should have the alternative to group mechanics and skinner boxes. Solo content is liking putting a bunch of people in a skinner box, and each of them can get out on their own, but with the option to talk to each other if they want.
Gonna have to disagree there. It is completely acceptable and even necessary for games to be designed to push you in a particular direction. "Increased player interaction and socialization" is a 100% valid reason to design a game in this way, and it is a genuinely effective way of getting players to rely on each other and help each other out.
Maybe you should drop the Skinner box comparison; I don't think you know what they are.
I think your answer lies in joining a small game like Vanguard. Those games have a small population that help each other out. Successful games do not attract people who like to play with others because the game has many ways to solo and avoid interaction if need be. Although you can if you search hard find a few people even in WoW who are like minded. It is just that the population being so large the chances of finding like minded folks dwindle considearbly.
Yeah, its weird for me to read this thread.
I help people all the time in Vanguard ... I'm kinda surprised to read this doesnt happen in other MMOs.
Almost makes me want to cry to read this =(
I have probably been unlucky, but in the MMOs I have tried recently it was more as OP describe. Well, at least now I can hope the next one is going to be as you describe.
I'm not so sure it has to do with the size of the community. My fav MMO so far was FFXI, which at the time had around 500k players. And it was the most helpful awesome mmo ever. People would help you all the time, even as a noob I had someone take a half an hour just to tell me how to work my menus and stuff.
And since then I've played 10+ mmo's and none of them even come close.
I think almost all mmorpgs are about competition. Almost all mechanics are set up around that.
While I can't deny that MMOs often force competition upon you (like resource nodes), I have never, ever joined one to compete. Other than the auction house, I have competition in video games. I'm old pen and paper D&D, where it was one for all and all for one.
I'm never rude or uncivil to anyone online unless it is visited upon me first. However, I also hate having to depend upon others in a video game. So, while I'm not unfriendly, I'm also very unlikely to accept an open LFG. If a game requires me to group to overcome an obstacle, I will either a) do so grudgingly or b) stop playing that game altogether, more likely the latter.
So in this regard, I do not fault the players themselves, even though there certainly are some a-holes. Rather, I fault the game design that forces players to group up when clearly, as testified by the OP, few actually prefer to.
Time and again, people (even pro-group people) have said that unless the game requires it, few would choose to team up. Doesn't that speak volumes as to what most players actually prefer?
Time and again, people (even pro-group people) have said that unless the game requires it, few would choose to team up. Doesn't that speak volumes as to what most players actually prefer?
Pfft thats like taxes, or whatever...
There is a difference between how things should be and how people will act unless they are encouraged or required to do so.
In fact its not like taxes at all.. its like that skinner box.. (Not that I know much about those either, but) Rats will OD themselves on whatever the reward is, without a thought to wether its good for them or not.
The fact that few would actively look for other people if they were doing fine on their own is not surprizing.. Socializing takes an effort.. and when soloing doesnt take the slightest effort besides repetive clicking, Why take 5 minutes to look for more effort for less reward. Especially since you could have clicked 500 times more in that time.
I don't mind grouping, however, spending all your time to find one just to have some young idiot go link dead, in the middle of an instance, because things didn't go well at one point, gets old......Kids don't have the drive and determination......If they actually have to think or things aren't given to them on a platter they just hit the power button and pretend they lost connection......It gets old after awhile and the patern just repeats itself so, yeah, whatever.....
I myself can not stand forced group on a complete standard where only by group can you level ooutside of a snails pace, btu yet i hate free for all solo quester and ob grinding systems as well. I would want somethign where till abotu half way or so you can level pretty wel thru quests, and then you hit multiful group quest (actually requiring groups not one or two more people to keep your leveling curve active, with having to go to another zone to complete more solo quests that would grant much less experince at this time if you wanted to not group.). nwo by this you wouild have people able to solo if they wished but yet also it would much faster to group up and do the group chains to level thru both sides having incentives. I would love a system also where the questss you had been doing as well as the dongeons wouldd lead into a small/medium size raid with the lower level enemies coming to the front to fface you, as well as bringing the great enimies to light as well, also it would give nn-raiders/newbies a chance to experince raids before thee level cap. If there intermision raids were a large and important way of telling or focusing the story of tthe game as well as source of expiernce it would be fun and enjoyable.
I don't mind playing solo however I'd like to think that when there's a chance to group up for something people would embrace it. However I do think that a big part of why people don't is because of things that have already been mentioned: Sharing loot, bad previous experience, can do it solo so why bother grouping etc. This is probably what's turned me off of most MMOs and caused my current break in gameplay.
I think that the competition level in MMORPGs pushes people to be antisocial as has also been mentioned. Here's a typical night prior to quitting: Ask if anyone needs a specific part of a chain quest with either with a plethora of unhelpful responses so abandon the prospect of finishing that and start farming nodes in the area waiting for someone else to be caught up to that chain. Find nodes set behind groups of mobs and fight my way through to the last set of mobs only to have the node taken by someone from my own faction as I finish off the last mob. Have that happen a few more times before getting frustrated and asking if anyone needs the quest I'm on still. Find someone who is about 7 quests back and decide to just help them through. Get about 6 quests down when their brother/sister/friend etc joins the group and needs to do all 10 quests. Swallow my frustration and dig in to these quests for the third time. Repeat steps because they forgot to loot x or didn't talk to so and so before we started killing mobs. The whole time I want to be doing my own thing but some of the most fun you can have in and MMO is with other people /gasp. So about this time in the paragraph I would wager that about 85% of people have stopped reading because they fall into the last mindset that caused me to take a break from gaming. The people who feel like that if something is going to take longer than 15 seconds then it's not worth doing. For instance: New player joins your group, "farming runs?" "No, so and so's first time here so they need to-" New player has left your group. But I digress... I've actually started guilds with the intent on leveling and being social with no requirements of staying or helping, only putting into the guild what you want out of it. I gave up after a while because people would join and immediately ask for gold or for power runs all day long, but also who never gave 1 minute of their time to anyone else who would need it. You can only give (in this case a damn) so much until you're burnt out.
MMORPGs pretty much cater to, and dare I say create, two types of players: The raider who is willing to follow a schedule that reflects a work atmosphere and the solo player who is likely someone who wants to be social but after asking questions has been met only with criticism for not having played the game for the last 5 years. Someone who will stop trying to be social after a while only to be one of those people taking your kills, your nodes and declining your invitations.
I have hope in the future of games because I feel like there are enough people out there like myself who are looking for a change, as is apparent by the length of threads like this one.
If what you are actually lamenting is lack of social interaction, then look for improved socialization tools inside mmorpg. Look for things modeled on Facebook or Twitter. Even MySpace is less primitive than what's available in mmorpg. For that matter, even Aol* had more options.
On the other hand if what you really want is that players be required to interact with each other for character progression, then say that. That's not socialization. That's putting a bunch of people in a skinner box and telling them they have to work together to get out.
* I am not advocating making mmorpg like Aol or anything Facebook. However, the tools and systems presented for people to socialize are far more advanced than what's in any mmorpg. Mmorpg developers could learn something from them.
** edit ** I should have the alternative to group mechanics and skinner boxes. Solo content is liking putting a bunch of people in a skinner box, and each of them can get out on their own, but with the option to talk to each other if they want.
Gonna have to disagree there. It is completely acceptable and even necessary for games to be designed to push you in a particular direction. "Increased player interaction and socialization" is a 100% valid reason to design a game in this way, and it is a genuinely effective way of getting players to rely on each other and help each other out. Maybe you should drop the Skinner box comparison; I don't think you know what they are.
Shouldn't make assumptions about what people know and what they don't. Of course, the analogy works better if players get a bit of cheese, but I typed it out as 'get out' so I stuck with it.
My point is that player interactions do not equate to socialization. The OP is talking about being social. You are talking about relying or being dependent on other people, which in an MMO can happen nearly 100% with little social interaction.
Wanting older mechanics that force people to interact whether they want to or not is not increasing the socialization in MMORPG.
** edit ** Imagine the skinner boxes are tied together in a chain. You can either have the rules such that rats do not proceed from box 1 to box 2 with out somehow helping each other, or you can allow the rats to progress from box 1 to box 2 solo. I had to think about that for a couple minutes to get the 'get out of' to make sense.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That's because cellphone texting has destroyed their grasp on the english language and when they try to type they look like 1st grade dropouts.
/roflmao
I was unable to refrain from laughing as well.
Honestly, I am not really bothered about this.
I am more concerned about the lack of sincerity, truthfullness and humility in MMO communication.
Also, more importantly, I am now much more suspicious of other players in MMO communication as they may be more egoistic, narcisstic and one-sided than ever.
It's the anonymity which allows this behavior. "Who's gonna punish me if they can't find me?"
I'll tell you this. Even the people whom I play with and whom I have their personal emails, behave this way.
Ingame, I do my best to not behave badly in any way or degree, always gives free stuff to my friends, and yet they have all failed to even behave respectably in our friendships.
Same goes for my current relationship with my girlfriend whom I met online 4 months ago, now i'm just trying to cook up an excuse to break up with her.
Having personal phone numbers and emails doesn't change anything. You don't truely know the, you don't hang out with them and you've likely never been to their house. You don't have any effect on their normal life to it's still an anonymous relationship.
As for your RL GF, usually the truth works the best.
I believe it boils down to poor game design and egotism.
Games that require you to form parties and to rely on all party members, builds the trust, confidence, and comradery that games currently lack. These aspects are something that was common 7-15 years ago in games, but the essence of that pure game design has long been lost.
The game designers fail to understand that giving bonuses in group fights is key to lasting power... not diminishing the rewards, this only forces people to be greedy, or become "solo" ers.
Players don't have any reason to rely on anyone in a party, as their chances of getting "good loot" will diminish and so will their experience.
What would bars be like if everyone who went, only went to sit in a corner by themselves and drink alone and then dance alone on their corner of the dance floor.
I don't think anyone wants to play a game where the end result is an eventual breakdown to an antisocial solo oriented ego grind.
Hope game designers get the message.
I seek to find the Perfect MMO, do you have what I seek?
Since you are comparing your time in EQ1. Ever think people have moved on to 8-5 jobs have family and kids. We can't all live unemployed, retired, or as acollege student.
I was Umployed from Dec 2010 up until now. I had all the time in the world to play, socialize with people, and to reply to post made on this site.
Perhaps people should fight against the trend of shortening words, abbreviating, etc.
If you start the conversation with, "hi, can u help me?" I will reply with /ignore.
That doesn't mean I'm anti-social, it just means I have higher standards. I've found that in 99.9% of cases, people who can't spend the extra quarter of a second it takes to type out "you're" rather than "ur" are not worth talking to.
Comments
Ah "forced grouping" that old chestnut. It is akin to calling a game mechanic that requires just one individual "forced isolationism". Unless a game is immediately ramming you into a group each and every time you log on and you are incapable of attempting any kind of interaction or mechanic in the game world at all without a group of players then there is no "forced grouping". Amazingly more often then not if players have to interact with others in an MMO they do just that, they don't all up sticks and quit. Those who would rather leave than work with others could be called... antisocial.
Humans may indeed be social animals but they are also animals that chase after the path of least resistance. If a game is going to offer more and more content which the player can blast through without having to interact with others, then you can be sure that a significant amount of them will do exactly that. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just that it is.
People also do indeed socialise with a select minority within the context of the majority, but then that does not mean that it is a good thing socially to reduce the interaction with said majority. People also need to keep in mind that the whole interacting with the community thing is not about having to get 5 more other people together to do a raid, it is also interacting with player merchants, crafters et al. Games increasingly marginalise the need for interaction.
As for updated communication tools, isn't that exactly what voice comms are?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Yeah, its weird for me to read this thread.
I help people all the time in Vanguard ... I'm kinda surprised to read this doesnt happen in other MMOs.
It happens all too often in most mmo's lately. It is the main reason I quit Rift because they took too much examplke from WoW by allowing everyone to instantly get help but the never stick around to say more than two words or do more than one quest in a row like mmo groups used to be a few years ago. People just want an easy button and forget being sociable to someone who helps them take down a boss.Almost makes me want to cry to read this =(
I have probably been unlucky, but in the MMOs I have tried recently it was more as OP describe. Well, at least now I can hope the next one is going to be as you describe.
Why cant people get that many players rather play solo and having a hard time doing that then joining a group and finishing stuff on easy mode?
Its also what type of game you are playing like when i play the normal hotbar type mmo i rather do it solo since most of them are already easy when playing solo and there is no danger AT ALL.
When i play darkfall (yes i play it) i always team up with people so i can shout an alarm to some people nearby when i get under heavy fire, There is danger in this game with both a unexpected big mob showing up out of nowhere that is almost unbeatable when ur alone on a rare occasion or a group of players wanting to kill you and steal your loot.
I don't think anyone has any issue whatsoever with people attempting to solo group content to provide themselves with a challenge.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I am with you 100% OP.
However TS and Vent do not bother me nearly as bad as Skype, people having open mics where you can hear everything constantly OMG!!
I've had to sit there on raids listening to some insane things :
A 12 year old cuss out his mother and tell her he was going to beat the hell out of her if he had to get up from his game to get his dinner.
A father screaming and cussing out his 5 year old daughter because she came running into the room chanting " I love you daddy "
What the hell is wrong with people?
It is more that a group shoudl level faster then a solo player since it takes more and has more to offer, but right nwo you can level roughly as faster as a group can with the system as is. Making it that grouping is going to yeild you a faster leveling exp over solo would make it more used by tthe community, yet people would still be able to solo as well.
If what you are actually lamenting is lack of social interaction, then look for improved socialization tools inside mmorpg. Look for things modeled on Facebook or Twitter. Even MySpace is less primitive than what's available in mmorpg. For that matter, even Aol* had more options.
On the other hand if what you really want is that players be required to interact with each other for character progression, then say that. That's not socialization. That's putting a bunch of people in a skinner box and telling them they have to work together to get out.
* I am not advocating making mmorpg like Aol or anything Facebook. However, the tools and systems presented for people to socialize are far more advanced than what's in any mmorpg. Mmorpg developers could learn something from them.
** edit **
I should have the alternative to group mechanics and skinner boxes. Solo content is liking putting a bunch of people in a skinner box, and each of them can get out on their own, but with the option to talk to each other if they want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Those people are sick especially the father
Both, with my injection of 'from' above. The label mmorpg is an inaccurate title for the vast majority of themepark pve-centric games. We all know it. The label just used by savvy studios to feed off that draw of the social illusion.
I happen to think that Trion made an effort to place massively-multiplayer back in mmo. Though without real game-play relevance or incentive to their attempt at cooperative and competitive community-centric interdependence involvement, ones' participation with the open-world dynamic events were really meaningless. Even the games coming out this year that carry that false mmorpg label, will be nothing but a solo & cooperative multiplayer game, with little to nothing "massively" about it, and which comes with it the continued soloability independent game-play attitude. That's not to say the journey can't be entertaining in such games.
Gonna have to disagree there. It is completely acceptable and even necessary for games to be designed to push you in a particular direction. "Increased player interaction and socialization" is a 100% valid reason to design a game in this way, and it is a genuinely effective way of getting players to rely on each other and help each other out.
Maybe you should drop the Skinner box comparison; I don't think you know what they are.
Uhm.......I don't actually WANT to socialize with these people.......
If that makes ME "anti-social"......I would find that ironic.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I'm not so sure it has to do with the size of the community. My fav MMO so far was FFXI, which at the time had around 500k players. And it was the most helpful awesome mmo ever. People would help you all the time, even as a noob I had someone take a half an hour just to tell me how to work my menus and stuff.
And since then I've played 10+ mmo's and none of them even come close.
What did FFXI have? I dunno..
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While I can't deny that MMOs often force competition upon you (like resource nodes), I have never, ever joined one to compete. Other than the auction house, I have competition in video games. I'm old pen and paper D&D, where it was one for all and all for one.
I'm never rude or uncivil to anyone online unless it is visited upon me first. However, I also hate having to depend upon others in a video game. So, while I'm not unfriendly, I'm also very unlikely to accept an open LFG. If a game requires me to group to overcome an obstacle, I will either a) do so grudgingly or b) stop playing that game altogether, more likely the latter.
So in this regard, I do not fault the players themselves, even though there certainly are some a-holes. Rather, I fault the game design that forces players to group up when clearly, as testified by the OP, few actually prefer to.
Time and again, people (even pro-group people) have said that unless the game requires it, few would choose to team up. Doesn't that speak volumes as to what most players actually prefer?
Pfft thats like taxes, or whatever...
There is a difference between how things should be and how people will act unless they are encouraged or required to do so.
In fact its not like taxes at all.. its like that skinner box.. (Not that I know much about those either, but) Rats will OD themselves on whatever the reward is, without a thought to wether its good for them or not.
The fact that few would actively look for other people if they were doing fine on their own is not surprizing.. Socializing takes an effort.. and when soloing doesnt take the slightest effort besides repetive clicking, Why take 5 minutes to look for more effort for less reward. Especially since you could have clicked 500 times more in that time.
I don't mind grouping, however, spending all your time to find one just to have some young idiot go link dead, in the middle of an instance, because things didn't go well at one point, gets old......Kids don't have the drive and determination......If they actually have to think or things aren't given to them on a platter they just hit the power button and pretend they lost connection......It gets old after awhile and the patern just repeats itself so, yeah, whatever.....
I myself can not stand forced group on a complete standard where only by group can you level ooutside of a snails pace, btu yet i hate free for all solo quester and ob grinding systems as well. I would want somethign where till abotu half way or so you can level pretty wel thru quests, and then you hit multiful group quest (actually requiring groups not one or two more people to keep your leveling curve active, with having to go to another zone to complete more solo quests that would grant much less experince at this time if you wanted to not group.). nwo by this you wouild have people able to solo if they wished but yet also it would much faster to group up and do the group chains to level thru both sides having incentives. I would love a system also where the questss you had been doing as well as the dongeons wouldd lead into a small/medium size raid with the lower level enemies coming to the front to fface you, as well as bringing the great enimies to light as well, also it would give nn-raiders/newbies a chance to experince raids before thee level cap. If there intermision raids were a large and important way of telling or focusing the story of tthe game as well as source of expiernce it would be fun and enjoyable.
I don't mind playing solo however I'd like to think that when there's a chance to group up for something people would embrace it. However I do think that a big part of why people don't is because of things that have already been mentioned: Sharing loot, bad previous experience, can do it solo so why bother grouping etc. This is probably what's turned me off of most MMOs and caused my current break in gameplay.
I think that the competition level in MMORPGs pushes people to be antisocial as has also been mentioned. Here's a typical night prior to quitting: Ask if anyone needs a specific part of a chain quest with either with a plethora of unhelpful responses so abandon the prospect of finishing that and start farming nodes in the area waiting for someone else to be caught up to that chain. Find nodes set behind groups of mobs and fight my way through to the last set of mobs only to have the node taken by someone from my own faction as I finish off the last mob. Have that happen a few more times before getting frustrated and asking if anyone needs the quest I'm on still. Find someone who is about 7 quests back and decide to just help them through. Get about 6 quests down when their brother/sister/friend etc joins the group and needs to do all 10 quests. Swallow my frustration and dig in to these quests for the third time. Repeat steps because they forgot to loot x or didn't talk to so and so before we started killing mobs. The whole time I want to be doing my own thing but some of the most fun you can have in and MMO is with other people /gasp. So about this time in the paragraph I would wager that about 85% of people have stopped reading because they fall into the last mindset that caused me to take a break from gaming. The people who feel like that if something is going to take longer than 15 seconds then it's not worth doing. For instance: New player joins your group, "farming runs?" "No, so and so's first time here so they need to-" New player has left your group. But I digress... I've actually started guilds with the intent on leveling and being social with no requirements of staying or helping, only putting into the guild what you want out of it. I gave up after a while because people would join and immediately ask for gold or for power runs all day long, but also who never gave 1 minute of their time to anyone else who would need it. You can only give (in this case a damn) so much until you're burnt out.
MMORPGs pretty much cater to, and dare I say create, two types of players: The raider who is willing to follow a schedule that reflects a work atmosphere and the solo player who is likely someone who wants to be social but after asking questions has been met only with criticism for not having played the game for the last 5 years. Someone who will stop trying to be social after a while only to be one of those people taking your kills, your nodes and declining your invitations.
I have hope in the future of games because I feel like there are enough people out there like myself who are looking for a change, as is apparent by the length of threads like this one.
Shouldn't make assumptions about what people know and what they don't. Of course, the analogy works better if players get a bit of cheese, but I typed it out as 'get out' so I stuck with it.
My point is that player interactions do not equate to socialization. The OP is talking about being social. You are talking about relying or being dependent on other people, which in an MMO can happen nearly 100% with little social interaction.
Wanting older mechanics that force people to interact whether they want to or not is not increasing the socialization in MMORPG.
** edit **
Imagine the skinner boxes are tied together in a chain. You can either have the rules such that rats do not proceed from box 1 to box 2 with out somehow helping each other, or you can allow the rats to progress from box 1 to box 2 solo. I had to think about that for a couple minutes to get the 'get out of' to make sense.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Having personal phone numbers and emails doesn't change anything. You don't truely know the, you don't hang out with them and you've likely never been to their house. You don't have any effect on their normal life to it's still an anonymous relationship.
As for your RL GF, usually the truth works the best.
I believe it boils down to poor game design and egotism.
Games that require you to form parties and to rely on all party members, builds the trust, confidence, and comradery that games currently lack. These aspects are something that was common 7-15 years ago in games, but the essence of that pure game design has long been lost.
The game designers fail to understand that giving bonuses in group fights is key to lasting power... not diminishing the rewards, this only forces people to be greedy, or become "solo" ers.
Players don't have any reason to rely on anyone in a party, as their chances of getting "good loot" will diminish and so will their experience.
What would bars be like if everyone who went, only went to sit in a corner by themselves and drink alone and then dance alone on their corner of the dance floor.
I don't think anyone wants to play a game where the end result is an eventual breakdown to an antisocial solo oriented ego grind.
Hope game designers get the message.
I seek to find the Perfect MMO, do you have what I seek?
You ever think maybe it's not the MMO?
Since you are comparing your time in EQ1. Ever think people have moved on to 8-5 jobs have family and kids. We can't all live unemployed, retired, or as acollege student.
I was Umployed from Dec 2010 up until now. I had all the time in the world to play, socialize with people, and to reply to post made on this site.
TRUST THE COMPUTER! THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND!
Stay Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!
Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues!
Perhaps people should fight against the trend of shortening words, abbreviating, etc.
If you start the conversation with, "hi, can u help me?" I will reply with /ignore.
That doesn't mean I'm anti-social, it just means I have higher standards. I've found that in 99.9% of cases, people who can't spend the extra quarter of a second it takes to type out "you're" rather than "ur" are not worth talking to.
Sarcasm is not a crime!