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Why does RIFT feel lacking? Could it be you?
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Trion has had a very noticable effect on Blizzard. If you would like another example. Blizzard has been very slowly copying Rift features into their game. WoW is about to get this right here 2 and half years after LFG launched in WoW
Rift being out has affected WoW in a very backend ways. Popin I do not need to be in the Beta to have a constant stream of info on a game I was considering investing time into.
ToR is simply missing to many convinience features for it to have long term viability for a mass audience. I do not know how to explain what the game is missing without violating the NDA, but for as many people who think it will hurt WoW Rift they are wrong.
Different level of casual. I believe it means casual on the level of a browser based, or sort of a Free Realms type of thing.
There are: Hardcore gamers
Casual Gamers
Casual Non-gamers
I feel they are targeting the last two groups, and the casual non-gamers are those that cant even be swayed by Rift or WoW, which is too "hardcore" for them.
Understood, but Rift is in the same category as WoW's casual which is the point we were discussing.
In no way could Rift be considered "hardcore" in any area.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I understand, but calling people out on what they're currently playing isn't exactly the best way to go around making it.
They have a voice, but will Blizzard listen to them? I don't think they'll really listen to people crying on the forums as long as they are still getting their money. Which is why it is best to vote with your wallet on things like this.
I understand people leave and stay for reasons. I left for mine, as did others. People stay for their reasons, and that's fine and dandy for them.
I'm not saying Blizzard is going to have to instantly change pace, but what I am saying is that it proves it isn't impossible to pump out content faster than blizzard is, even with less income. The way I see it, is that for some, it could be a little bit of a wake up call. They look over at Trion and go, "Hey, wait a minute, how come they can pump out so much content in this amount of time, but Blizzard with all their subs and box sales, cannot?".
I'm not saying Blizzard will change or has to change, but it is possible that the player base could notice a competitor that seems to be able to create more in less time with less money, and wonder why Blizzard cannot do such a thing.
WoW should steal things from Rift they think will work just like Rift "stole" cross server LFD.
Nothing wrong with stealing IF you improve on it or at least make it as good as where you stole it from, and this is where Rift falls down. The stuff they stole from WoW doesn't work so hot.. just like the LFD.
If you look around Rift forums, look how many people are unhappy with the cross-server LFD system. So either it's broken (not working right) or there aren't enough people in Rift these days to form parties by it. (I think it's the latter, because WoW's works because they have more people)
"TO MICHAEL!"
Small linear "worlds" with unintriguing lore or setting. Snoozefest quests. No strategy involved in combat at all. Overrated graphics. No replayability. Mobs jammed together in a gauntlet fashion. I honestly cannot figure out what people see in this game.
Oh of course not. I agree, Rift is so casual its not even funny.
But I was refering to how Titan being labeled as "casual" was not the same casual that Rift and WoW are.
Understood, but Rift is in the same category as WoW's casual which is the point we were discussing.
In no way could Rift be considered "hardcore" in any area.
Oh of course not. I agree, Rift is so casual its not even funny.
But I was refering to how Titan being labeled as "casual" was not the same casual that Rift and WoW are.
Good point.
I know even if I don't try Titan (probably will though depending), I'm VERY interested in how they market that game opposite WoW and with what new features they've thought up.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Bingo!! Easily the most lackluster game I ve played in years. Leveling to 50 once was easy and boring, a second time I couldn t do it, and cancelled. Never seen such repetition in a game in my life. To each their own, but I can tell you one game that kills this one, but I m not allowed to say too much:)
This is exactly how games were meant to be enjoyed. Folks bust ass to get to end game then cry because they are bored and there is nothing to do. I guess actually playing the game as designed is too much to ask. Oh well, they always have message boards to troll while they wait on the next game to trash.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
So you know OP,i turn off my TV and i am as slow as they come when leveling is involved,i try to enjoy every inch of a game.Your analogy is probably correct for the rest however as leveling speed seems ot be the main reason people are playing the main game then pvp or loot raiding every single day=boredom.
First of all i like to point out that MOST games do not have any replayability,it is the exact same game all over again.FFXI "was" that better game because your player never ended at "end game"you continued to make your player grow with a new class,new skills,new spells,abilities.That design also kept noob zones looking good because EVERY player had to go back and level up a new class or actually many classes.What i see now is 90% of players play the OTHER games on their end level cap and just sit there everyday looting the same old over and over or compeltely miss the reason toa RPG and think it's ONLY about pvp.
What i saw in RIFT,was too easy and leaves no satisfaction and seem to have no other direction to the game other than the linear questing we see far too much of already.
Rift as most other games was full of soloers and the exact same boring quest design.The class system was not well done and was as restrictive as any other design.If you are going to use a point system,then i shoudl be able to allocate as i want to,but they had restrictions on your level,so it ended up feeling like the same old level design.
I only got to about level 10 give or take a few,as i said i don't care about leveling at all,i actually try to enjoy the game.What i got was far too many easy hand fed choices,if i remeber i already had access to 4 class choices,and way too many spells and abilities.I found most of the choices were fluff as i would never use them,i had a setup on hotbar that i could see staying the same throughout the game.
Also the pet idea i thought was crazy,it seemed to me that everyone should have a pet even if to use as a distraction because you didn't need to put many points into it.
Overall too much too easy,when i played FFXI that same handout would have taken me 4 months not level 10 once through.More importantly i felt zero satisifaction in anything i did and soloing was getting boring fast.A quest driven game does NOT do well for allowing groups,because you are on quest A and someone else is on quest B an another is on quest C,it all adds up to bad design.
The main core of the game RIfts and Invasions ,i quickly saw a very generic design that was repeated over and over.Once again using FFXI as an example i already did this sort of stuff in Campaigns and Beseiged,so was nothing new here.
Rift NEVER felt like a bad game ,which is a plus,but it just never felt good either,so rather than prolong my stay to an average game ,i left it early on.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Thats the point Mar, its not what people see in the game its what people make out of the game. People are numb to the experience of MMO's and are expecting the game to have fun for them. Its what YOU make of it.
BASIC TROLL RESPONSE:
Your basic troll response comes in many forms, sometimes its a self centered attempt at making one feel better about ones self. Sometimes it's meant to draw anger out of others. Sometimes its done just for attention. Often trolls respond when the truth of the post hits home and their only respond is to troll. Some trolls resort to grammer and spell check responses in an attempt to elevate themselfs above others. Most trolls are bitter lonely souls just reaching out in some awkward way. You will often see trolls use words of emotion, darkness or action in their forums names, things like killer, death, etc. One thing is for sure they tend to appear in just about every thread.
Playing the game the way it was designed:
Go to area x . Talk to NPC a, b, and c. Get quests d, e, and f. Run to area y. Kill g of h. Collect i of j. Return to area x. Talk to NPC a,b, and c. Repeat x500
Do I even need to mention the fact that you're doing 98% of this all by yourself? With gameplay like that, no wonder people rush to the endgame. The endgame is advantageous in numerous ways. For one, it signifies "the end" and to most people that means it is the "most important" content. Players who have reached endgame feel a sense of accomplishment, and for that reason, the endgame content feels superior whether or not it actually is. The endgame requires teamwork. Unless you log in every day to do nothing but dailies, you can't progress through the endgame without being sociable and learning to work with others, especially in a raid environment. Likewise, raids require preparation. They require farming for money to buy consumables. They require considerable time spent studying fight mechanics. They require considerable time spent with first hand experience with fight mechanics.
Again, all this is compared to the stale questing model of modern MMORPGs. People don't care about the journey because there is no journey. If you think there's any sort of a "journey" in MMOs these days, you're either deluding yourself, or you haven't been playing MMOs too long. Almost everything you do from levels 1 to max is done within the first 5 levels of your characters lifespan. That's about the entire length of the journey right there. The rest is just rinse and repeat.
I applaud games like GW2, SW:TOR, TSW, and even to a much lesser extent WoW (with its usage of phasing and vehicle minigames) which all employ certain mechanics to varying degrees which break up the monotony of the grindy nature of questing, which serves to somewhat mask the grind.
Rift does nothing to break up the monotony of the grind, and to be honest, is a principle example of the grind. Sans the soul system, there is nothing unique or risky about the game's design, and appears to simply be WoW wrapped up in a more restrictive game engine. I mean, I guess the graphics are better, but outside of that, there's little reason to play Rift other than the fact that it's new. Of course, that's a pretty good reason if you're just sick of playing WoW. What that means for Rift when GW2, TSW, and SW:TOR hit retail shelves remains to be seen.
Saddly no the world is lacking in afew ways from the scale as well as impact of invasions, since no one really does anybut the main high level area, which comes from the game's leveling curve you progress fairly fast both as a casual and power leveling character. THe soul system is somewhat shallow in ways since really with the nerfing as well as buffing, then you add in that really they are trying to make the souls more viable yet. the story is interesting yet the quests do not feel liek they immerse you well after a point in the zones. It is also lacking in the use of the support role, sine it has trully three roles with support being unwanted in not content, while being more of a niche effect. The game s polished yes yet that is no reason for the immersion of quests to faulter as you level up feeling like it were tossed together late. The armors are well done yet too repetive with the wardrobe system releaving sme of the reuse of armor designs, but yet we have no slot in it for the weapons which is srry since it would have been great as well as being asked for on forum since they annonced the wardrobe. The pet system is alittle lacking as well with no customization of the pet, which is sad since the game is about comstomizing to yrou sstyle of play with a system that would cater to that. I play rift still both as a raider with soloing when i can between, but when tsw comes out i will be moving there for thigns i would like. I would more ask is it that you expect to little from the games? I mean we will alwayss want either more or less from everythign, although why you would not want more from yoru gaming exerience i am not sure. I played aion and that was a game with alot of good and bad things in it but yet still a great game to play, all games are lacking because well they are not perfect games tell me when you find a perfect game.
Really? TOR is going to be different?
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
The journey to 50 was pretty damn fun. PvP felt mostly balanced after the first couple of brackets, Rifts were fun and invasions were great (when enough people were on to defeat or hold it off).
When you hit 50 you slam into a huge steel reinforced brick wall of grinding. It just seemed like the game stoped when you hit max level.
Of course I went a bit over the top to get the discussion going. I play RIFT currently and do find it to have some issues but it is still a lot of fun for me. If for you the game ends in 4 months then it does move on. You still had 4 months of entertainment. Get use to it the days of all the players playing one game for 6 years are past. That does not mean you might not find that in a game but as for me I want to try many new experiences so if I have fun be it for one month or 7 years who cares? This was actually a more general comment about the state of MMOs and more the player base. It does not matter if I had to work my ass off or play casually to earn my mount all that matters is did I have fun getting it? That is the bottom line, entertainment value for my dollar.
One poster here says why should he pay for something then asked to use his imagination. I find that a very sad comment and the current state of many of the problems in America. I spend a lot of money on books and when I read them I use my imagination. I am an artist and my paintings sell for a lot of money, I would be saddened to think people did not use their imagination when they look at it. I find MMOs to be an art form more then a game. I am encourage at those who like to work hard in an MMO but so many of them seem to have smuge attitute towards casual gamers, both can exist in the same MMO. That is the holy grail in the MMO world.
Other seem to be pissed at Trion for not making the game they wanted. Trion made the game they wanted. If you don't like it spend your money on something else. Developers make the games they want and hope others do too, TO MAKE MONEY. To all of you, don't stop using your imaginations while gaming, that is what "Dancing With The Stars" is for.
One of the games I played was AION for a year and that game was a grind beyond typical games, not as bad as Lineage or something but it was somewhat rough (3 50s).
At launch they didn't even have many quests PvE wise after 40. You went to Theobomos to grind mobs solo. Or you took a few people to grind elites in Bakarma or other places. They only had a few dungeons like Steel Rake that drove you insane if you did them more than 20x. When I quit AION a year later I was glad I did.
But the thing was, I didn't get bored of AION until maybe month eight actually because they had open world PvP. Going rifting was the most fun I had in a PvP game, not knowing if mobs or people were waiting on the other side. Running around and sneaking into opposing camps and killing people in line at the auction house then having the whole room open up a can of whoopass on me. Fighting for forts, losing them and winning them back. Strategy of which ones to attack, which ones to fake attack.. just so much action.
And the thing is, I'm not really a PvP person at all.. more PvE minded. But Aion was able to draw me in and care about the world, my faction and my server because there was a goal if you won/lost and faction rewards.
In Rift, there is none of that. You care nothing about the world overall because there's no reason to. So what someone wrote canned lore about dragons? They dont' really scare anyone. There's no real consequence if mobs take over towns then disappear in one hour. Once you done rifts they are fun early (launch) but later they lose their epicness. Taking down an invasion boss with T3 geared 50s isn't the same as taking it down with noobs with base gear. It just loses that urgency feel.
"TO MICHAEL!"
A mmo by it's VERY NATURE is a visual dependant thing. How many blind people do you know that play mmos? Now, if you DID meet a blind person playing RIFT, don't you think that person would have to use their imagination? Of course. Why?
Because they can't SEE the fun everyone else sees. It's probably MORE fun to that blind person playing because they have to imagine how awesome a water rift would look like then imagine how awesome a air rift would look like and then imagine how awesome a fire rift will look like. But since I can see there is no real difference between any of them, how can I "fool" my imagination to pretend it is? How do I pretend there's are reason I'm actually fighting Guardians when there isn't any consequence, but I see the same premades every roll?
If you think it's sad someone expects to be entertained by paying for an entertainment medium, that's kinda weird. Doing the same content over and over will breed boredom, no matter how much you 'make believe' in a game. You can do things to challenge yourself like fight with no gear on, or fight with a level 1 weapon but that's not really fun to me.. more like busywork or keeping occupied but I know people who do that stuff and happily pay the $15/month.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Starcraft: Ghost.. don't know anything about that really, sorry. But Blizzard usually pees goldstreams so you're probably mistaken in that it probably did well enough; just not "box office". Even Albert Pujols can't hit homeruns EVERY time at bat, right?
You keep saying IF you are subscribed to WoW... I agreed with that. But again, you aren't. So you are a non-subscriber telling Blizzard what they should do with their game when millions of their fans don't seem to care.
It's your opinion and that's fine, but it's simply not good BUSINESS that you do something no one is clamouring for because you'll lose money later on you'll regret. This is what happened to Trion and their servers closings.
They wanted to shut servers without actually shutting them down, so they gave people FREE UNLIMITED transfers for life. They sort of avoided the embarrassment of having to publicly shut those down and move people (sort of ) but now they painted themselves into a corner.
Trion can never, EVER charge anyone for a transfer in the future because they've set a precedent that they don't. That's a ton of money they lost when every other company gets revenue that way. Dumb business move because they didn't get tons of people saying "they don't charge for xfers? I'm going there!" Some yeah, but not a ton.
By giving people something they weren't actually asking for, they locked themselves out of future revenue stupidly. If they started to charge for xfers, guess how that would make them look? Desperate.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'm not talking about how they are not saying anything about Titan, what I was getting at is when I spend a monthly fee on WoW, it should be shown to me in WoW my money is being spent. Not on another MMO. If I wanted to support their other MMO, I would sub to that one when it is out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft:_Ghost Basically, it was constantly postponed, and then pretty much cancelled after a few remakes. Think Duke Nukem Forever, except never actually finished. I'm not saying that it wasn't going to be a home run. I'm pointing to the fact they spent a lot of time and money on the game, and just decided to cancel it. They could do it again for Titan.
I keep saying IF I was subscribed, because if they were giving me something more interesting, I would be subscribed. I subbed to WoW, when I saw what my $15/mo was giving me, I decided it wasn't worth it, and pulled it out. Paying $15 a month for minor content updates every once in a while, and then having to buy another expansion to receive content isn't that great for me. Where did all the sub money go from everyone? They need me to buy an expo too? I'd understand if it was massive changes, and I was also getting good content updates regularly from my $15/mo. But I didn't, so I voted with my wallet and stopped giving them $15/mo.
I'm confused on what you're trying to argue with me on the third paragraph. I never said anything about, "WoW needs this!". I was just saying the amount of income they are receiving from monthly subs, doesn't seem to equal the amount they could be pumping out for all the subs they have.
Maybe Trion could have made a lot more money from server transfers, but they decided to give it for free. I'm not even sure why you brought that up, as it has little to nothing with the argument at hand other than they could also have more money.
I'd rather a game give me voice overs that help me build some small, personal relationship with the NPCs along with an overarching story is integrated to the flow of a game than some standard quest grinder with some easily ignorable story that has hordes of nondescript computer controlled characters standing around a camp site with exclamation marks over their heads whom you aren't made to give two flips about beyond figuring out where they want you to go, what they want you to kill, or what they want you to collect.
Congratulations. Your game still doesn't have an time estimate for dungeon queues. That's kinda like getting the cart before the horse.
RIFT feels samey. That's it.
There's nothing wrong with me. The Hero Engine was designed to allow dev groups churn out wow-clones. RIFTs proof it works in spades.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Rift is a product of the Gamebryo engine not the Hero Engine.
Gamebryo being the same craptastic engine that powered Warhammer Online, Divinity 2 and Elder Scrolls III: Oblivion. Ironic how so many MMORPGs make graphical sacrifices to run on low end hardware but pick the absolute worst game engines, which has a tendancy to negate the whole thing about running well on a variety of systems.