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Why does RIFT feel lacking? Could it be you?
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I'd have to agree all around. But on the second part, it really shows what a good dev team can do, and is really starting to put blizzard in perspective a bit imo. For the amount of polish and content Trion is pumping out, it's hard to imagine why Blizzard cannot do the same amount with more money.
Because Blizzard doesn't want to put all new ideas into WoW. That much should be obvious.
They are actually making another mmo codename "Titan" in case you didn't know. Makes no sense to waste good ideas on a game you'll probably scrap in two or three years time.
They've been working on Titan for quite some time now with little information. I seem to remember Blizzard making a game called Starcraft: Ghost for a long time. That didn't end too well. The thing is, if I'm paying to subscribe to WoW, I should be seeing something come out of it in WoW, not another game by them. If I want to support the other game, I would pay towards that one.
This is a good thing. Keep working on it, don't talk about it. Less yak, more attack. I like this strategy and think it's refreshing unlike how TOR and GW2 are did it.
Starcraft: Ghost.. don't know anything about that really, sorry. But Blizzard usually pees goldstreams so you're probably mistaken in that it probably did well enough; just not "box office". Even Albert Pujols can't hit homeruns EVERY time at bat, right?
You keep saying IF you are subscribed to WoW... I agreed with that. But again, you aren't. So you are a non-subscriber telling Blizzard what they should do with their game when millions of their fans don't seem to care.
It's your opinion and that's fine, but it's simply not good BUSINESS that you do something no one is clamouring for because you'll lose money later on you'll regret. This is what happened to Trion and their servers closings.
They wanted to shut servers without actually shutting them down, so they gave people FREE UNLIMITED transfers for life. They sort of avoided the embarrassment of having to publicly shut those down and move people (sort of ) but now they painted themselves into a corner.
Trion can never, EVER charge anyone for a transfer in the future because they've set a precedent that they don't. That's a ton of money they lost when every other company gets revenue that way. Dumb business move because they didn't get tons of people saying "they don't charge for xfers? I'm going there!" Some yeah, but not a ton.
By giving people something they weren't actually asking for, they locked themselves out of future revenue stupidly. If they started to charge for xfers, guess how that would make them look? Desperate.
I'm not talking about how they are not saying anything about Titan, what I was getting at is when I spend a monthly fee on WoW, it should be shown to me in WoW my money is being spent. Not on another MMO. If I wanted to support their other MMO, I would sub to that one when it is out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft:_Ghost Basically, it was constantly postponed, and then pretty much cancelled after a few remakes. Think Duke Nukem Forever, except never actually finished. I'm not saying that it wasn't going to be a home run. I'm pointing to the fact they spent a lot of time and money on the game, and just decided to cancel it. They could do it again for Titan.
I keep saying IF I was subscribed, because if they were giving me something more interesting, I would be subscribed. I subbed to WoW, when I saw what my $15/mo was giving me, I decided it wasn't worth it, and pulled it out. Paying $15 a month for minor content updates every once in a while, and then having to buy another expansion to receive content isn't that great for me. Where did all the sub money go from everyone? They need me to buy an expo too? I'd understand if it was massive changes, and I was also getting good content updates regularly from my $15/mo. But I didn't, so I voted with my wallet and stopped giving them $15/mo.
I'm confused on what you're trying to argue with me on the third paragraph. I never said anything about, "WoW needs this!". I was just saying the amount of income they are receiving from monthly subs, doesn't seem to equal the amount they could be pumping out for all the subs they have.
Maybe Trion could have made a lot more money from server transfers, but they decided to give it for free. I'm not even sure why you brought that up, as it has little to nothing with the argument at hand other than they could also have more money.
I saw that in red so that's why I mentioned that part. Wasn't sure if it was your main message or not.
As to your expecting something for paying a sub, we have been in full agreement for sometime, but I'm not sure you noticed. I'll say it again; if you were paying money for a WoW sub you have every right to complain if you don't feel as though Blizzard is adding enough content for your money, or you don't like them holding back content to add later in Titan. Again, we agree.
That isn't the case though, so I said if those people who are paying NOW for their WoW sub aren't posting like crazy about that, then I'm not sure why you care honestly. It doesn't seem to affect them or they'd be short more subs. If anything it seems that the people playing WoW are pretty pleased with their game overall because they keep paying for it. By paying someone is saying they think the game is worthwhile.
I'm not trying to argue, I actually thought we were having a decent conversation. Sometimes I can't tell the difference though
The reason I used Trion and FREE server xfers should have been explanatory. You are asking Blizzard to give it's fans something they didn't seem to ask for. The Blizzard fans just got Cataclysm and then some other thing after that. That seems like they are adding content to which players may think is easy or hard or whatever, but they are adding it. If Blizzard gives them new ideas and play that they didn't ask for instead of using it for Titan, they are shooting themselves in the foot.
This is what Trion did. Was there a huge outcry on forums for free transfers? No. I was there at launch and afterwards and no ONE mentioned it once. Trion volunteered to do it and people went "yay, Blizzard doesn't do this!". It was a good move for fans because they didn't ASK for it, but a bad move for Trion because they gave away hundreds of thousands potentially in revenue without a demand.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Once u play a game that came out before WoW you will feel that every game is lacking atleast i do espectialy cming from Everquest 1, 12 years now and its still my favorite game ive played, and thats because of the massive world and social feel of the game. Currently basicly every other MMO out there feel like a poorly made single player game what isnt challenging with a chat room, with some some raids/instances (I dont realy like the instances system because its kinda silly being in a whole instance by yourself and 4 other people), that charges a monthly fee.
I think you highlighted in red to emphasis a point on it a while back. I never touched the color codes =p
I understand what you're saying, and it makes sense. But still. I'm not gonna give them $15 just to complain to something about their game, when I've already complained and then voted with my wallet =p
Technically, at some point and time, I was this customer. I'm just confused on the fact that just because I am no longer currently playing, that they would not pay any attention to me. Obviously, since I played the game and bought expansions, I was interested in the game. But if they want me back, they would have to listen to at least somwhat of things I want, not just ignore me. Ignoring possible income isn't a good business plan =p. But I do understand I'm probably not their main focus since I'm currently not waving the wallet around saying I'm leaving soon. I already have.
Eh, I guess I just use argue as a loose term. I think a better term would have been debate, but using the word feels like what we're talking about would have more weight on the world other than just our opinions =p.
I understand, but still. I don't think they should use the model of stopping to upgrade the game. I feel a CCP approach would be best imo. After x years and technology advances, upgrade your game instead of letting it slowly date and die! When the new graphics came out in Eve, you could still use the old ones if you couldn't support the new requirements. I say WoW should do the same thing. If they upgraded their graphics with the times, and gave melee some decent variation in animations, I would have a much higher want to go back.
The way I saw my warrior when playing was, "Press 1, spin and attack, press 2, spin and attack the same way, press 3, cast some sort of spell, press 4, attack without spinning, press 5, spin and attack". The animations were over-used way too much for me to stay interested in playing melee classes. At least with casters in WoW the effects differed on the spells a good amount. Your casting animation was recycled a lot though. Iirc my undead warlock only had 2 or 3 casting animations. (but I liked them, one of them he was hunched over swaying back and forth with magic in his hands. His hands were also in the shape of the Metal music sign m/ . I thought it was cool lol)
People use the crap excuse of, "But a lot of their playerbase can hardly run the game/run the game on lower settings! Upgrading the graphics wouldn't allow them to play!" It's such crap, because they could just keep using the old models and textures just like in Eve. (kinda got off topic there, my bad lol)
Eh, Trion wanted to increase their repuation with the playerbase. By allowing free xfers, people will probably be more likely to say more good things about Trion in reviews and recommendations. Someone thought it was worth making free versus costing money.
Rift was bad even when I did Beta testing. It's like Tabula Rasa. It could be great, but it miss does little things. They even took time to clone WoW and failed.
If you are going to clone a game, do it 100%. Not 70%.
You have missed the point of my comment and are stretching you argument by using the blind thing. Of course mmos are for people who see, just as my paintings are. If you don't like the game then don't play. I get it you don't like RIFT. You are distorting my point by trying to say that you have to use your imagination to enjoy RIFT bullshit I never said that. What I said was slow down don't play an mmo as a console single player game. Use the tools the developers put in place and enjoy the ride. Do not rush to end game. If that is your play style all power to you. You simple do not think there are any good mmos out there I disagree. I have played a lot of great mmos and nothing you can say will change that opinion and I used my imagination in every one to allow myself to experience what the artist tried to present. Using your imagination is never a bad thing and does not replace a game that is lacking. I simply do not thing RIFT is lacking. I play the game Trion made. Have you ever really allowed yourself to get immersed in and MMO if you have then you have used your imagination.
I just find it odd that quests put you off and then you applaud TOR , GW2 and WOW as being different. I cant speak for GW2 as I have honestly not paid a lot of attention to it. I did follow TOR for awhile and came to the conclusion that the only thing different is the VO and the price. Beneath the VO is but another quest grind in a game in which devs admittedly used WOW as a "touchstone" for develepment. So in the end one stands around listening to quest givers talk instead of standing around and reading the quests. Its not different, its just presented in a way that I think many will find irritating after the new wears off. For years people have skipped reading quests to get into the action but now these same people are going to stop and listen? Perhaps, but I dont think so.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
For my mmo experience I've enjoyed only two games for a prolonged time. Ultima Online from '97 to '03 and EQ2 from '06 to '10 and neither of those games was because of the lore the designers put into the game, but what the gameplay itself had to offer. Rift is a good game and well polished to boot.
For my money the longetivity just isn't there. It isn't different enough to keep me actually wanting to log into the game. I paid for the 6 month package at launch and played many 3 months worth of it. I'm just not captivated enough to keep paying. So many new offerings in the near future just seem like they could provide a better gameplay experience.
Every single game is lacking. If not for me then for somebody else. If game have been built perfect there would be no need to patching, expansions, ... would be all already included.
And if we step on solid ground: Rift is great game, imo, best after Wow. But I can not object that original Pacman is still for somebody best game ever.
OP what i find a bit ridiculous in your post is the fact you think games like Rift are immersive, and they give you "tools" for you imagination. Well i think most of the people will agree that games like Rift lack seriously in those domains. TBH i liked the first few weeks because of the Rifts and what they infused in the game, but did it trigger my imagination? No. It would maybe if you could go through those Rifts and access new worlds, yes. But how it was set in the game? certainly no.
You remind me that trend after the 1r mmo gen and you could see that people were just stopping role playing all together. Once UO and EQ began to age a bit like 2 or 3 years, people were no more role playing in these games. And you had people just like you claiming all over that people had no imagination and that was the reason. But the fact is When NWN was made a lot of people were role playing again. SOme game just are not good tool for you imagination, some are. The problem is quiet simple, games like Rift never went mean to be tools for your imagination, they weren't built that way. They do have a glimpse of role play since they are based on those games, but its just a reminiscence, nothing to take seriously really. Thats my opinion, you'll probably still find some hardcore rper finding their ways into games like WoW or Rift, but the majority will pass, even those like me that have a very strong role playing past.
I lost interest because the leveling for each faction felt too linear. Not much variety in zones. Also, the quests are too boring and repetitive.
Yes, I came from WoW and playing Rift in the first month after launch it just felt like I downgraded from my experience in WoW.
One thing i woudl say for rift and most of the themeparks is that this idea of all of one faction starting in the same zone is not good since it leads to boredom and limited replayability. One reason i liked wow was the verity in the starting areas based on the race was kinda ncie since i could start a new character with a different race that would feel fresh till i got to the shared areas again. Even as a fact of keeping the starting the same it would be interesting f you werre sent to a different area based on yrou race to learn abotu some of yrou history as a form of secondary starter area.
Ye i think that's the real problem about the "we will make the same winner formula with a twist" for games like Rift or Swtor. The guys behind those projects don't seam to understand that such attitude is like a looser attitude. You need to up your standard by a lot to have the same success and infuse the same interest for the second run. People will need a lot more for their 2d game to keep interest. Doing the same is a lost cause to begin with. If you begin your climbing sport and managed to climb your first big rock alone, you'll probably look for a small cliff next to give your the same kind of thrill, the rocks would be just good for your exercises.
That's pretty funny...because enjoying the journey (stopping and smelling the roses, as you called it) is EXACTLY how I try to play every MMORPG. The fact is that MMOs have been exactly the opposite of what you said...they are getting smaller and more shallow, NOT bigger and better.
Funny that you should mention Rift, because it is absolutely the poster child for the extremely limited and distilled WoW-formula MMO. The world is tiny, there's no depth in terms of mechanics or the world itself, and the whole game is basically a linear task grind to max level raid grind with nothing on the side. It has no soul, no life...heck, it doesn't even have cities because they would slow players down from selling their crap and getting back to the grind. The dynamic content in the game is only dynamic in the sense that it may be spawned or it may not. The content itself is completely static, scripted, and just a bunch of reskins of the same thing.
Using my imagination to create my own fun in a game like Rift would mean I'd basically have to add EVERYTHING in my mind to make it an immersive world, because all it actually is can be summed up quite well as a shallow and much smaller copy of WoW. You can literally fill in the entire Rift map in less than a month of play, without ever taking your eyes off the carefully marked quest objectives on the mini-map. Being lead by the nose through an ever-more-lame set of the same old "run back and kill 10 more things" tasks is not my idea of a virtual world.
I might as well save the monthly subscription, stare at a blank wall, and create my own fantasy world there instead.
I never said RIFT was about longevity. You can play an MMO like RIFT allow yourself to slow down and enjoy it if you want and get a few really fun months out of it. What is wrong with that? No one said an MMO experience had to last for years. I also want to clear up something I never said RIFT was the best MMO out. I was making the point people seem to be judging it for what they want not what Trion made. Most who disliked it say they had a lot of fun for awhile well made awhile is all you get. Some also misunderstand the idea of using your imagination. When I play any game MMO or single player I allow myself to get immersed in the art. If that is something you can not do with RIFT then so be it move on. I just find if funny that people complain about something that they did not enjoy and try to explain to me and other why we are deluded in enjoying our experience as if somehow we do not get it.
I have been in MMOs as my main form of entertanment and gaming since 1996 with meridian 59. So I hate to do this but I will list my experience so you see I am not just a WOW kid. All these game I put real time into not just 1 week some I loved some I moved on from: Meridian 59, UO, Project Entropia, EQ, EQ2 (7 years), WOW (6 years). FF11, Seed, Rysom (3 years), Priston's Tale. Tale of the dessert, Age of Conan, DDO (2 years), SWG (4 years) , COH/COV (2 years). LOTRO (3 years), Champions Online, DC universe, DAOC (3 years) Planetside, RF online, and more. I used my imagination in all of these games not to make a bad game better but to allow myself a chance to escape a bit into the world the artist created. Now if that is something you can not do and play MMOs as a game rather then a virtual world then we are on different pages not better pages but different.
MMOs are definetly my main form of entertainment not TV not movies. I play MMOs. I love them. I support them. I try to experience the hard work of the wonderful people who make them. In all my years here at MMORPG I never posted anything about a game I did not enjoy to tell others how bad it is. That is one thing I hate about this site so many troll and trash games they do not like instead of talking about the games they like. If you hated an MMO why waste your time talking about it? If I find an MMO lacking I just move on. Don't worry about my money and how I spend it you are not doing me a favor by coming to a forum of a game you hate to tell me how crappy it is. You ain't my momma. RIFT is a wonderful experience that I can see getting a year out of. I do not see myself playing for years. Yes I do role play in RIFT and it is fun not deep like EQ but still a lot of fun.
I finish with this I can not wait for TOR and I will be playing IT not some game I want but the game the developers have made.
Rift feels lacking because the quests are boring and uncreative, and there is zero replayability.
Other MMORPGs do this better.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
No, it's Rift's fault. I was only able to enjoy it for about 1.5 months and when my first and only character hit 50 and I found myself staring at a standard, boring gear grind end game I walked away. (despite paying for a 6 month sub).
I then picked up EQ2 and have enjoyed it for over 3 months, have 2 avatars, a necro and dirge and am having far more fun than I did with Rift even though its a standard theme park MMO.
It's possible to make fun, in depth and engaging themepark MMO's, Rift's just not one of them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Rift failed to bring anything new and exciting to the equation, that is why it was labeled as boring a month out of the gates. Innovate (even in some small way) or die. If you can't do that have a good story that draws the player in.
Fail on both accounts as far as I am concerned.
In your opinion.
In many people's opinion, there's strength in numbers.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You have stats to show us, or did you invent this survey on the spot ? lol
I had the same experience. Don't get me wrong; Rift is a very polished and well made MMO. It just lacks a "soul" for lack of a better word. The novelty wears off quite quickly and it gets harder and harder to want to log on and play so you just quit...
Heck, I keft Rift and went back to Vanguard and still having a blast!
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I have a really basic math problem for you. Rift sold around a million copies. How many of those people are subscribing now? 40%? 25%? That's all the stats anyone needs to know the game is lame.
Some of us knew what it was before it launched and never purchased it in the first place. Running one time through a task system on rails and then quitting isn't what I would call a fun experience.
This is a subscription-based game. Keeping players engrossed in the game for only a month or two is NOT okay if your payment model is based on players paying you every month. The fact that subs drop dramtically after a few months shows that the game failed miserably as a mass-market subscription MMO.
Now it's a niche game, and will likely continue losing population until they decide to go free to play in some fashion. It has nothing to do with us...it has everything to do with Rift just being a bad game. No amount of polish improves a game's mechanics, game play, or basic design.
I think that for the most part MMORP's are meant to be played with others.
I can tell you that Rift Solo is Boring it is actually just as bad as World of Warcraft, Everquest 2. But what makes it worth a damn and better than all those is your perspective ... The Guild and people i play with make this game fantastic. It is a very good game promoting group play and socialization.
Artorus Giltanus - Ranger EQ1 Retired
Arturien - 90 Deathknight WoW
I'll go out on a ledge and say this game next to WoW has one of the most responsive developers in the past 7 years. WoW got famous because Blizzard could fix issues and release content. It seems simple, but can you say the same about NCSoft, Mythic, or Sony?
You can say what you want, but I have a developer that is almost constantly non stop giving me new stuff and ideas. Find me game where there is a button I can press and be teleported into a raid in a open world zone where we have a quest we have to do.
This latest world event for all its simplicity has pretty much made people non stop rift hopping in the high level zones. It is really far from a niche game.
When every comparrison to why Rift/WoW/EQ questing sucks is to bring up ToR as a defense, then there is the answer for some of Rifts problems. It is called hype. Very soon that hype train is coming to a halt and if the game is that good, then it will own the market. If they chose certain elements over core features like I believe, then it will not be major.
Trion doesn't publish stats, that's all the information you really need to know. Well, besides the fact that a majority of the servers are ghost towns compared to launch and general opinions around the internet.
Not everything needs to be proven with facts and figures, Rift is a decent title, but it will suffer severely in the coming year and yes, be F2P before the end of 2012.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon