I personally prefer it to take much longer. For instance if it were up to me it would take a few months in a scenario like this.
If you typically spend 3-4 hours JUST spent towards gaining xp 3-4 times a week, that would be approximately 12-16 hours a week just dedicated to leveling, not all the other fun stuff. So 12-16 hours a week turns into about 50-60 hours a month so it's resonable to expect it take to 4-5 months for the average person to reach max level, which would be about 200-250 hours of playtime to reach max level.
Compare that to many RPGs and that's very reasonable, maybe a bit on the high side for some, but for a game that's designed to be played for years not months, it makes a whole lot of sense to me.
On the other hand if you think about those people that play 12-16 hours a day doing nothing but xp that would be about 3-4 weeks.
the longer the better, think what wow would be like if you could not hit the cap in under 2 or 3 days, zones of all levels would be full of people playing instead of being the ghost towns they are now.
So yeah strong vote for taking MUCH MUCH longer to hit the level cap from me, I would be happy if it took about 6 months to a year to cap out in an mmo, I find that a much better scenario than having most people on a server sitting there with 6 or 7 level 85's god I think I had in total about 14 85's and it was a total waste.
I saw leveling in wow as such an easy task that instead of paying to move from horde to alliance, I deleted all my level capped alliance characters and remade them horde side and in only a week or 2 had them all pushing the cap, leveling in wow now is silly a hardcore player like myself could go from 0 to 85 in 3 or 4 days.
I'm trying to figure out if this is serious or a troll thread. OP would have never made it in EQ when it took half a year to almost a year to hit max level in the orginal. and hell levels would have made him tear his hair out. i really kinda hope this is a troll thread.
Took me a year to get to 65 on my Beastlord, and loved every minute of it.
The difference also is hitting 65 in EQ made you a legend and looked up to, because it was a long and tough road to it. other players asked you questions and for help and advice because you had truly seen it all to get there.
But now a days hitting 65 means nothing, since everyone can hit it in a month or so, by even breezing past a bunch of content without ever even trying it. Dime a dozen.
It really annoys me when people like the OP considers modern MMO's focused on the end game, just because he believes the leveling is boring. I mean, I'm not disagreeing that the leveling is boring, but they weren't intended to be. With WoTLK and Cataclysm, I've found that quests are more entertaining, but still not entertaining enough to repeat several times.
Regardless of how boring the leveling experience is, leveling up should take a very long time because it is the majority of the games content. It's your characters life journey, not his childhood. What happens at max level is only icing on the cake, not the entire cake itself.
As for SWTOR, the game is focused on the journey, not the endgame. We know this because we know Biowares story telling ability. When I think about SWTOR, I'm thinking about playing through each characters storylines, not running Flashpoints and Operations ad naseum, although I do plan to run them once or twice.
To each, his own. The OP obviously is the type that wants only the endgame. Someone who will rush through the levels, without caring about reading the quest, following the story, or whatnot. Quickly reach endgame then that's where the fun starts.
Some of us who treat the journey as equally fun, will obviously not agree with that. I always finish all the quests and follow the story, even if it's not the fastest way to level.
The question I often ask myself is why could we not have both games? Why could there not be two separate genres, so to speak?
There could be the games for those that only want to play at endgame - they could easily make the "fantasy FPS" or "dungeondelving" game lobby game... they could even have included some form of progression in it.
And we could have still had the games where the Journey matters - the "destination" is on the other side of that mountain range over there, what we're focused on is what is around us now. We might get there eventually.
Guild Wars is exactly like that, and I do think there's room for that type of game. You reach max level (level 20) very quickly, and then you just run dungeons to acquire new skills and money for the best looking gear and you can auto create a max level to PvP.
I see 75% wan't much longer , But the problem doesnt lie with the players it lies with the developers , They just don't have the ability to create a game that can entertain for long stretchs , Rift is a perfect example of developers with zero imagination
Release game with 10 zones
update 1: add dailys , new currenct to clooect
Update 2 : add dailys , another new currenct
update 3 : More of the same
update 4 : Yes again the same
Update 5 : Ok it finallychanged abit solo & duo epic story lines , but guess what , New competitive rewards have been added for purchase with high-level zone event currency. yes another new currency
SW:TOR provides 8 starter classes, each with a unique, about 200 hour long (on average, powergamers who just want to get another maxlevel char can of course find shortcuts) story to it. Meaning about 8x200 = 1600 hours of solid, high, Bioware quality storytelling. And I am NOT aware that anyone at Bioware claimed that after this 200 hours of class story you would be maxlevel. Its just the length of your class story. Also, they have stated you dont NEED to do it. You can skip it and level, for example, on PvP instead.
Please, lets stop this nonsense,
Of those 200 hours, around 180/190 of them is shared content between each class of the same faction.
Yes each class has unique story quests, but you have to go through the same non-class quests (if you want to lvl up with quests) with every character of the same faction.
SWTOR will tank hard and this is one of the reasons, naive people expecting 1600 hours of unique content.
Really, 1600 hours of unique story content?
Really?
Yeah, I was pretty let down when I learned about the truth. They'll be voiced over and more thematic, but they'll still be your run of the mill quests we're tired of doing.
If the game is meant to be played at the level cap then it shouldn't be such a long trek to get there. The poll is more evident of people not liking the current genre of games than people who actually play and like them.
If the game is meant to be played at the level cap then it shouldn't be such a long trek to get there. The poll is more evident of people not liking the current genre of games than people who actually play and like them.
How can you deduce that from people saying they want it to be longer? I played and liked the 2000 hours I spent in WoW but I still wished it took longer to get to cap. I started WoW in vanilla and got to 60 just after BC came out. Played on and off since then and the leveling speed just got faster and faster.
I play and enjoy plenty of games, but I still wish they would last longer. This isnt a case of if you want X then you cant have Y.
I wouldn't be happy with it unless it took 2000 hours (that's two thousand). I also believe MMOs should start at the beginning and not at level cap btw.
And I read in another thread it will be an almost 30Gb download (or more)?
30 Gb for what exactly?
I am glad now that my ISP would never allow me to d/l this size of MMO, I can blame my unfulfilled longing to play SW:TOR on them and blissfully never no how much (little) I missed.
A huge level grind is usually the first red flag that end game is crap. However, that being said, anyone recall DAoC the first few years or Everquest? Sadly though, while those two titles had immersion and creativity that has yet to be fulfilled by anything past 2004, new games are as well decrease leveling speed in order to have a chance to use the hard core super fast levelers (a.k.a., the unemployed) to prejudge the end game (either for better or for worse). This way, by the time the meat of the subscriber community catches up (sorr I don't discuss fail to pay or F2P games), the bugs are hashed out - maybe this is not entirely true - but it is a nice theory arguably.
I voted for less leveling time. Let folks get to end game but give them the option to level slowly and follow complex quest lines if they wish to do so. But see, therein lies the rub. There are very few options in mmorpgs these days. Few classes, few races, mostly cosmetic cultural differences, 2 factions at best or just any guild goes.
The industry does a lot of research on what is available for player base. They have assumed (sadly this might be correct) that the median player (that guy who sits at the center of the bell curve), is 14-24, lives at home, and most likely engages in heavy marijuana use. This type of player has low standards, that reflect on their own lack of "get-up-and-go" if you will. They are that part of the community that spams trade/region/etc with childish comments and speak in leet talk and roflestomp vernacular.
If that truly is the population, you would think all games would be /50 the moment you logged in (or /85 for you WoW fans). But, I am starting to believe that the developers are in truth the very same as the above market I just described. There is a horrible lack of creativity in the genre. As an example, 30 people worked at Mythic back in 2001 (that's ten years ago!) and created a massive 3 faction world where each faction could level to end game ONLY in their own country of origin. To see the enemy you would have to portal to a non-instanced Battleground (persistant), or the end game players would have to have capured enough castles to have opened up a 3 faction PvP dungeon known as Darkness Falls. We also didnt run Fed Ex and kill 50 bunnies quests till end game (though a few of these existed as an option). Instead, we grouped to kill masses of mobs (and masses and masses and masses, ad nauseum), because the xp was respectable in this manner (thank you developers).
We also had pride for our faction. We loved being who we were, whether it was Arthurian Briton, Celtic Ireland (Hibernia), or the blood Vikings, we loved our culture and we fought till the wee hours of the morning defending our territories. Times have changed, sadly, and even Dark Age of Camelot was swept under the carpet of mediocrity in favor of Warhammer (a product that resulted in a large % of Mythic employees being fired as of Sept. 2009).
Sometimes I wish I was that average gamer, that guy who sits stoned in the basement of his mom's house. I would have so many mmorpgs to choose from then. But alas, I am not.
I wouldn't be happy with it unless it took 2000 hours (that's two thousand). I lso believe MMOs should start at the beginning and not at level cap btw.
And I read in another thread it will be an almost 30Gb download (or more)?
30 Gb for what exactly?
I am glad now that my ISP would never allow me to d/l this size of MMO, I can blame my unfulfilled longing to play SW:TOR on them and blissfully never no how much (little) I missed.
Its 200 hours of personal story from what I know. I'm sure it will be more. Also, time it takes to level is dependant on the player. 2000 hours to max is a little much though. 83 days of played time is 2000 hours, you would have 10 people at max and that would be it.
And where did you read that it would be 30 gigs? Even if it is then so what? That means there is likely a lot of content or land space. Age of Conan was 27 gigs and Vanguard was similar to that. I'm not even a fanboy and I'm almost insulted by you coming in here and spouting uncertantites then claming the game will suck without actually having played it or having any desire to play it.
If the game is meant to be played at the level cap then it shouldn't be such a long trek to get there. The poll is more evident of people not liking the current genre of games than people who actually play and like them.
How can you deduce that from people saying they want it to be longer? I played and liked the 2000 hours I spent in WoW but I still wished it took longer to get to cap. I started WoW in vanilla and got to 60 just after BC came out. Played on and off since then and the leveling speed just got faster and faster.
I play and enjoy plenty of games, but I still wish they would last longer. This isnt a case of if you want X then you cant have Y.
Because I know the type who regularly post on these forums.
Sometimes I wish I was that average gamer, that guy who sits stoned in the basement of his mom's house. I would have so many mmorpgs to choose from then. But alas, I am not.
Instead you are arrogant and insult people with stereotypes and generalities.
Sometimes I wish I was that average gamer, that guy who sits stoned in the basement of his mom's house. I would have so many mmorpgs to choose from then. But alas, I am not.
Instead you are arrogant and insult people with stereotypes and generalities.
This.
I game all the time, yet I'm not a stoner, and I live 500 miles from my moms basement. Wanna know why? I'm a Finance student in college with a 3.5 gpa, and I still play all the mmos I want.
The "Average Gamer" is not a basement dwelling stoner, thats just what the media wants you to think.
Sometimes I wish I was that average gamer, that guy who sits stoned in the basement of his mom's house. I would have so many mmorpgs to choose from then. But alas, I am not.
Instead you are arrogant and insult people with stereotypes and generalities.
Seems a bold statement from someone who just said this:
Originally posted by Quesa
Originally posted by marinrider
Originally posted by Quesa
If the game is meant to be played at the level cap then it shouldn't be such a long trek to get there. The poll is more evident of people not liking the current genre of games than people who actually play and like them.
How can you deduce that from people saying they want it to be longer? I played and liked the 2000 hours I spent in WoW but I still wished it took longer to get to cap. I started WoW in vanilla and got to 60 just after BC came out. Played on and off since then and the leveling speed just got faster and faster.
I play and enjoy plenty of games, but I still wish they would last longer. This isnt a case of if you want X then you cant have Y.
Because I know the type who regularly post on these forums.
Stereotypes and generalities INDEED. You don't KNOW me, for one, and I doubt you "know" any of the other posters either. If you can't take someone's word on WHY they have a certain opinion about something, unless you personally KNOW them, you can't make any accurate judgment on their reasoning.
Sometimes I wish I was that average gamer, that guy who sits stoned in the basement of his mom's house. I would have so many mmorpgs to choose from then. But alas, I am not.
Instead you are arrogant and insult people with stereotypes and generalities.
Seems a bold statement from someone who just said this:
Originally posted by Quesa
Originally posted by marinrider
Originally posted by Quesa
If the game is meant to be played at the level cap then it shouldn't be such a long trek to get there. The poll is more evident of people not liking the current genre of games than people who actually play and like them.
How can you deduce that from people saying they want it to be longer? I played and liked the 2000 hours I spent in WoW but I still wished it took longer to get to cap. I started WoW in vanilla and got to 60 just after BC came out. Played on and off since then and the leveling speed just got faster and faster.
I play and enjoy plenty of games, but I still wish they would last longer. This isnt a case of if you want X then you cant have Y.
Because I know the type who regularly post on these forums.
Stereotypes and generalities INDEED. You don't KNOW me, for one, and I doubt you "know" any of the other posters either. If you can't take someone's word on WHY they have a certain opinion about something, unless you personally KNOW them, you can't make any accurate judgment on their reasoning.
Except I was incinuating that people on MMO forums were fat dopers who live with their mom in the basement. Most people on these boards don't like the themepark-ish games and prefer more sandboxy games like UO and EO.
My statement is not insulting unless you are actively trying to create a shock moment.
I can state generalities without insulting people. You can say that people of Scottish decent generally have white skin. Thats a generality which holds truth but at the same time doesn't insult said group of people. I don't know you, which is why I made a GENERAL statement that most people on these boards favor games which aren't in the themepark-ish genre.
I wouldn't be happy with it unless it took 2000 hours (that's two thousand). I lso believe MMOs should start at the beginning and not at level cap btw.
And I read in another thread it will be an almost 30Gb download (or more)?
30 Gb for what exactly?
I am glad now that my ISP would never allow me to d/l this size of MMO, I can blame my unfulfilled longing to play SW:TOR on them and blissfully never no how much (little) I missed.
Its 200 hours of personal story from what I know. I'm sure it will be more. Also, time it takes to level is dependant on the player. 2000 hours to max is a little much though. 83 days of played time is 2000 hours, you would have 10 people at max and that would be it.
And where did you read that it would be 30 gigs? Even if it is then so what? That means there is likely a lot of content or land space. Age of Conan was 27 gigs and Vanguard was similar to that. I'm not even a fanboy and I'm almost insulted by you coming in here and spouting uncertantites then claming the game will suck without actually having played it or having any desire to play it.
10 people at max in 83 days is fine. MMOs are best when they are a long journey, rather than a weekend trip skiing.(my opinion of course).
Trust me, too many people will be screaming for content too quickly if it's only 200 hours, or even 400.
Now as for size of MMO d/l... Conan's download exceeds my bandwidth cap for my ISP and from what has been said so too will SW:TOR (I see I can buy the hard copy so a fix for that).
My point was that with only 200 hours of gametime to level cap just what is all the Gb's for anyway? Your point of ingame world content is a good one and fits what we know about SW:TOR.
I prefer a longer 'journey', and quality/indepth crafting/harvesting, bigger world, less quest rails or atleast somewhat equal exploration killing/xp value...Never been a big quester, but its about all you can do anymore it seems.
Themeparks seem to be going towards a little more sandbox now, but things have been pretty bad, nothing to play but super rails for the most part, since I left Vanguard.
I don't care that their are games that cater to the 'now' crowd, just wish more over the past 5 years would of had some variety, instead of trying to recreate the next WoW...I wish WoW all the success in the world, I wish they had such a stranglehold on pure themeparks that everyone would get the clue that they need to bring something new to the table.
needs to be around 3-5 months of a solid storyline from start to finish with plenty to do. Then you can through in the recycle content to add maybe another month of additional content. Make the content dynamic and scalable to the point that it seems fresh when you play, then you sold me for life. 6 months of total gameplay time beats 200 hours. Put a fancy box pricetag on it for $200 to buy and $25 a month and ill buy lifetime subscriptions. I still think costs are too low for such a game, more like $500 and $100 a month for something with such solid content. Still would buy it and play it for life. Hands down, I want nothing handed to me, and I don't want total sandbox. Lead me by the hand, make a total rise of me going over content feeling like nothing to the end where I can actually make a difference. This would require thousands of quests, hundreds of instanced dungeon variations, dynamic events for almost everything, and players willing to partake in the world. It will never happen, the closest anyone can come to with that kind of content would be TOR. Admittedly, I favor having a fun time to end game than end game itself.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
Sometimes, on forums and such, I read things like "It's too easy to get 85 in WoW" or "MMOs level too fast these days"
What? Level too fast relative to what? 15 days SOLID playtime until the level cap isn't enough for you, and that's before you even go raiding for gear?
The problem is that due to the fast leveling enjoying the actual pre-raiding content becomes almost impossible. You can't play all the interesting quests, won't even be able to go through every zone and this because you end up out-leveling them way too soon. And questing in a zone where you can't get any rewards and can kill mobs even easier/faster than normally is just bleh.
You see if the leveling process was so slow or the amount of content so little that you just end up farming random generic npc's just because you need to be a higher level to move on i'd get the point. But right now people skip content to get to other content which they end up mindlessly farm and repeat. It's a lose-lose really.
I hear SWTOR is going to take around 200 hours to hit the level cap. Huge thumbs down for me. In my opinion this is a ridiculous amount of time to spend reaching the level cap, when in modern MMOs the game "starts at the cap" or whatever.
Who says the game starts at the cap? Sure some games are designed that way but usually it's players who convince themselves that's true. You're lying to yourself, that's all.
Have the mmorpg community lost touch with reality? Or am I just reading a few weird minority opinions, and the public thinks that 10+ solid days played to reach the level cap in an MMO focused on endgame is ridiculous...?
What reality? The reality is that pre-end level content is being marginalized due to the whole "rush rush" mentality and that this leads to LOSS of content. What do you do when you hit the cap? You end up farming and grinding the same content over and over. The only thing end-game content gives is usually a higher difficulty.
I added a poll down the bottom. Assume the game is like World of Warcraft (focused on endgame both PvP and PvE wise), and it takes 10+ days of solid leveling to hit the cap.
Edit: To clarify, im not talking about the "ultimate" mmo where all levels are fun. Im talking about end-game focused games like WoW where the mid-levels are mind numbingly boring and repetitive. My experience is that quite a few MMOs today (I'd love you to provide good modern examples where im wrong) fit these criteria.
The problem i have is that to your standards WoW is end-game focused to such a point the leveling experience sucks if it's longer than 10 days. Which is WRONG. If you level at a normal pace you won't even do half the quests and won't visit all the zones, meaning that the pace of leveling is too fast.
On top of that while it could be said little effort is being put in the leveling content i don't feel any more efforts are put in the end-game content. So it's not as if the end-game is getting more love or something.
The only thing which marginalizes the leveling experience in WoW is the fast pace of leveling and way too low difficulty.
Thanks for your votes and responses!
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Sometimes I wish I was that average gamer, that guy who sits stoned in the basement of his mom's house. I would have so many mmorpgs to choose from then. But alas, I am not.
Instead you are arrogant and insult people with stereotypes and generalities.
Seems a bold statement from someone who just said this:
Originally posted by Quesa
Originally posted by marinrider
Originally posted by Quesa
If the game is meant to be played at the level cap then it shouldn't be such a long trek to get there. The poll is more evident of people not liking the current genre of games than people who actually play and like them.
How can you deduce that from people saying they want it to be longer? I played and liked the 2000 hours I spent in WoW but I still wished it took longer to get to cap. I started WoW in vanilla and got to 60 just after BC came out. Played on and off since then and the leveling speed just got faster and faster.
I play and enjoy plenty of games, but I still wish they would last longer. This isnt a case of if you want X then you cant have Y.
Because I know the type who regularly post on these forums.
Stereotypes and generalities INDEED. You don't KNOW me, for one, and I doubt you "know" any of the other posters either. If you can't take someone's word on WHY they have a certain opinion about something, unless you personally KNOW them, you can't make any accurate judgment on their reasoning.
Why are you attacking 1 poster while the other poster, who stated that average gamers who like more than a few MMO's are stoners who live in the basement of their mom's house, was making far worse generalisations.
Unless you find it ok to make 1 generalisation that targets 1 group of MMO gamers is better than another generalisation that targets another group of MMO gamers?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sometimes, on forums and such, I read things like "It's too easy to get 85 in WoW" or "MMOs level too fast these days"
What? Level too fast relative to what? 15 days SOLID playtime until the level cap isn't enough for you, and that's before you even go raiding for gear?
The problem is that due to the fast leveling enjoying the actual pre-raiding content becomes almost impossible. You can't play all the interesting quests, won't even be able to go through every zone and this because you end up out-leveling them way too soon. And questing in a zone where you can't get any rewards and can kill mobs even easier/faster than normally is just bleh.
You see if the leveling process was so slow or the amount of content so little that you just end up farming random generic npc's just because you need to be a higher level to move on i'd get the point. But right now people skip content to get to other content which they end up mindlessly farm and repeat. It's a lose-lose really.
Hi general! Thank you for such a good and indepth response.
You say that due to fast leveling people miss content. This is true—in mmos like WoW today you won't do all the quests and visit all the zones. But what are you really missing out on? From my experience of games like WoW, almost nothing. It's the same recycled "Kill X of this" "Deliver X message to Y" "Collect 15 mushrooms" ETC.
The "content" is the same but the models are different. Not something I want to spend 10 days straight doing—which is the premise of this thread.
I hear SWTOR is going to take around 200 hours to hit the level cap. Huge thumbs down for me. In my opinion this is a ridiculous amount of time to spend reaching the level cap, when in modern MMOs the game "starts at the cap" or whatever.
Who says the game starts at the cap? Sure some games are designed that way but usually it's players who convince themselves that's true. You're lying to yourself, that's all.
There's no lying—the game hasn't been released. I think you're right though, I shouldn't "presume" that SW:TOR will start at the cap like WoW. It's a very real possibility though, either on release or with further patches.
Have the mmorpg community lost touch with reality? Or am I just reading a few weird minority opinions, and the public thinks that 10+ solid days played to reach the level cap in an MMO focused on endgame is ridiculous...?
What reality? The reality is that pre-end level content is being marginalized due to the whole "rush rush" mentality and that this leads to LOSS of content. What do you do when you hit the cap? You end up farming and grinding the same content over and over. The only thing end-game content gives is usually a higher difficulty.
Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I've never done end-game in WoW—WoW in general seems very repetitive and unimaginative (especially in the MIDDLE phase of leveling) to me.
I added a poll down the bottom. Assume the game is like World of Warcraft (focused on endgame both PvP and PvE wise), and it takes 10+ days of solid leveling to hit the cap.
Edit: To clarify, im not talking about the "ultimate" mmo where all levels are fun. Im talking about end-game focused games like WoW where the mid-levels are mind numbingly boring and repetitive. My experience is that quite a few MMOs today (I'd love you to provide good modern examples where im wrong) fit these criteria.
The problem i have is that to your standards WoW is end-game focused to such a point the leveling experience sucks if it's longer than 10 days. Which is WRONG. If you level at a normal pace you won't even do half the quests and won't visit all the zones, meaning that the pace of leveling is too fast.
It's only my opinion that leveling (specifically, the middle leveling—the first 30 or 40 levels are a blast and im sure at the cap it can be fun) in World of Warcraft is mind numbingly boring.
The lack of variety in the mobs, quests and dungeons turns the game into a PvE grinder which I don't like.
Im biased on this point because I prefer more player driven games (and the IDEA of this kind of game) where PvP is important.
On top of that while it could be said little effort is being put in the leveling content i don't feel any more efforts are put in the end-game content. So it's not as if the end-game is getting more love or something.
The only thing which marginalizes the leveling experience in WoW is the fast pace of leveling and way too low difficulty.
Wrong. Whether or not it's the fault of the developers or the players, the end game in WoW receieves MUCH more love in both PvE and PvP. Wanna raid? Most people are doing it at the cap. Wanna PvP? a LOT more people doing that at the cap too.
One of the Guild Wars 2 designers, Isaiah Cartwright says it well (In GW 2, the leveling apparently will be more a "flat line" than a curve")
“Anyone can increase the length of an experience bar and call it content”,
“We expect content—not long, grindy progression—to be the deciding factor that keeps people playing our game. We want everyone to stick with Guild Wars 2 because our content is fun and enjoyable, not out of some dogged determination to slowly, slowly advance."
Comments
Um... 15 days is 360 hours. 160 more than 200. So WoW takes longer to reach the cap?
I personally prefer it to take much longer. For instance if it were up to me it would take a few months in a scenario like this.
If you typically spend 3-4 hours JUST spent towards gaining xp 3-4 times a week, that would be approximately 12-16 hours a week just dedicated to leveling, not all the other fun stuff. So 12-16 hours a week turns into about 50-60 hours a month so it's resonable to expect it take to 4-5 months for the average person to reach max level, which would be about 200-250 hours of playtime to reach max level.
Compare that to many RPGs and that's very reasonable, maybe a bit on the high side for some, but for a game that's designed to be played for years not months, it makes a whole lot of sense to me.
On the other hand if you think about those people that play 12-16 hours a day doing nothing but xp that would be about 3-4 weeks.
the longer the better, think what wow would be like if you could not hit the cap in under 2 or 3 days, zones of all levels would be full of people playing instead of being the ghost towns they are now.
So yeah strong vote for taking MUCH MUCH longer to hit the level cap from me, I would be happy if it took about 6 months to a year to cap out in an mmo, I find that a much better scenario than having most people on a server sitting there with 6 or 7 level 85's god I think I had in total about 14 85's and it was a total waste.
I saw leveling in wow as such an easy task that instead of paying to move from horde to alliance, I deleted all my level capped alliance characters and remade them horde side and in only a week or 2 had them all pushing the cap, leveling in wow now is silly a hardcore player like myself could go from 0 to 85 in 3 or 4 days.
Took me a year to get to 65 on my Beastlord, and loved every minute of it.
The difference also is hitting 65 in EQ made you a legend and looked up to, because it was a long and tough road to it. other players asked you questions and for help and advice because you had truly seen it all to get there.
But now a days hitting 65 means nothing, since everyone can hit it in a month or so, by even breezing past a bunch of content without ever even trying it. Dime a dozen.
It really annoys me when people like the OP considers modern MMO's focused on the end game, just because he believes the leveling is boring. I mean, I'm not disagreeing that the leveling is boring, but they weren't intended to be. With WoTLK and Cataclysm, I've found that quests are more entertaining, but still not entertaining enough to repeat several times.
Regardless of how boring the leveling experience is, leveling up should take a very long time because it is the majority of the games content. It's your characters life journey, not his childhood. What happens at max level is only icing on the cake, not the entire cake itself.
As for SWTOR, the game is focused on the journey, not the endgame. We know this because we know Biowares story telling ability. When I think about SWTOR, I'm thinking about playing through each characters storylines, not running Flashpoints and Operations ad naseum, although I do plan to run them once or twice.
Guild Wars is exactly like that, and I do think there's room for that type of game. You reach max level (level 20) very quickly, and then you just run dungeons to acquire new skills and money for the best looking gear and you can auto create a max level to PvP.
I see 75% wan't much longer , But the problem doesnt lie with the players it lies with the developers , They just don't have the ability to create a game that can entertain for long stretchs , Rift is a perfect example of developers with zero imagination
Release game with 10 zones
update 1: add dailys , new currenct to clooect
Update 2 : add dailys , another new currenct
update 3 : More of the same
update 4 : Yes again the same
Update 5 : Ok it finallychanged abit solo & duo epic story lines , but guess what , New competitive rewards have been added for purchase with high-level zone event currency. yes another new currency
Update 6 : I bet I can guess whats coming
Confession: I have played WoW for 4yrs over 3 accounts and have not even onced dinged the lvl cap on a single toon. Truth!
Yeah, I was pretty let down when I learned about the truth. They'll be voiced over and more thematic, but they'll still be your run of the mill quests we're tired of doing.
If the game is meant to be played at the level cap then it shouldn't be such a long trek to get there. The poll is more evident of people not liking the current genre of games than people who actually play and like them.
How can you deduce that from people saying they want it to be longer? I played and liked the 2000 hours I spent in WoW but I still wished it took longer to get to cap. I started WoW in vanilla and got to 60 just after BC came out. Played on and off since then and the leveling speed just got faster and faster.
I play and enjoy plenty of games, but I still wish they would last longer. This isnt a case of if you want X then you cant have Y.
You say 200 hours to hit level cap in SW:TOR?
I wouldn't be happy with it unless it took 2000 hours (that's two thousand). I also believe MMOs should start at the beginning and not at level cap btw.
And I read in another thread it will be an almost 30Gb download (or more)?
30 Gb for what exactly?
I am glad now that my ISP would never allow me to d/l this size of MMO, I can blame my unfulfilled longing to play SW:TOR on them and blissfully never no how much (little) I missed.
A huge level grind is usually the first red flag that end game is crap. However, that being said, anyone recall DAoC the first few years or Everquest? Sadly though, while those two titles had immersion and creativity that has yet to be fulfilled by anything past 2004, new games are as well decrease leveling speed in order to have a chance to use the hard core super fast levelers (a.k.a., the unemployed) to prejudge the end game (either for better or for worse). This way, by the time the meat of the subscriber community catches up (sorr I don't discuss fail to pay or F2P games), the bugs are hashed out - maybe this is not entirely true - but it is a nice theory
arguably.
I voted for less leveling time. Let folks get to end game but give them the option to level slowly and follow complex quest lines if they wish to do so. But see, therein lies the rub. There are very few options in mmorpgs these days. Few classes, few races, mostly cosmetic cultural differences, 2 factions at best or just any guild goes.
The industry does a lot of research on what is available for player base. They have assumed (sadly this might be correct) that the median player (that guy who sits at the center of the bell curve), is 14-24, lives at home, and most likely engages in heavy marijuana use. This type of player has low standards, that reflect on their own lack of "get-up-and-go" if you will. They are that part of the community that spams trade/region/etc with childish comments and speak in leet talk and roflestomp vernacular.
If that truly is the population, you would think all games would be /50 the moment you logged in (or /85 for you WoW fans). But, I am starting to believe that the developers are in truth the very same as the above market I just described. There is a horrible lack of creativity in the genre. As an example, 30 people worked at Mythic back in 2001 (that's ten years ago!) and created a massive 3 faction world where each faction could level to end game ONLY in their own country of origin. To see the enemy you would have to portal to a non-instanced Battleground (persistant), or the end game players would have to have capured enough castles to have opened up a 3 faction PvP dungeon known as Darkness Falls. We also didnt run Fed Ex and kill 50 bunnies quests till end game (though a few of these existed as an option). Instead, we grouped to kill masses of mobs (and masses and masses and masses, ad nauseum), because the xp was respectable in this manner (thank you developers).
We also had pride for our faction. We loved being who we were, whether it was Arthurian Briton, Celtic Ireland (Hibernia), or the blood Vikings, we loved our culture and we fought till the wee hours of the morning defending our territories. Times have changed, sadly, and even Dark Age of Camelot was swept under the carpet of mediocrity in favor of Warhammer (a product that resulted in a large % of Mythic employees being fired as of Sept. 2009).
Sometimes I wish I was that average gamer, that guy who sits stoned in the basement of his mom's house. I would have so many mmorpgs to choose from then. But alas, I am not.
Its 200 hours of personal story from what I know. I'm sure it will be more. Also, time it takes to level is dependant on the player. 2000 hours to max is a little much though. 83 days of played time is 2000 hours, you would have 10 people at max and that would be it.
And where did you read that it would be 30 gigs? Even if it is then so what? That means there is likely a lot of content or land space. Age of Conan was 27 gigs and Vanguard was similar to that. I'm not even a fanboy and I'm almost insulted by you coming in here and spouting uncertantites then claming the game will suck without actually having played it or having any desire to play it.
Because I know the type who regularly post on these forums.
Instead you are arrogant and insult people with stereotypes and generalities.
This.
I game all the time, yet I'm not a stoner, and I live 500 miles from my moms basement. Wanna know why? I'm a Finance student in college with a 3.5 gpa, and I still play all the mmos I want.
The "Average Gamer" is not a basement dwelling stoner, thats just what the media wants you to think.
Seems a bold statement from someone who just said this:
Stereotypes and generalities INDEED. You don't KNOW me, for one, and I doubt you "know" any of the other posters either. If you can't take someone's word on WHY they have a certain opinion about something, unless you personally KNOW them, you can't make any accurate judgment on their reasoning.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Except I was incinuating that people on MMO forums were fat dopers who live with their mom in the basement. Most people on these boards don't like the themepark-ish games and prefer more sandboxy games like UO and EO.
My statement is not insulting unless you are actively trying to create a shock moment.
Enjoy.
@your edit:
I can state generalities without insulting people. You can say that people of Scottish decent generally have white skin. Thats a generality which holds truth but at the same time doesn't insult said group of people. I don't know you, which is why I made a GENERAL statement that most people on these boards favor games which aren't in the themepark-ish genre.
Stop trying to mince words and get a "gotcha".
10 people at max in 83 days is fine. MMOs are best when they are a long journey, rather than a weekend trip skiing.(my opinion of course).
Trust me, too many people will be screaming for content too quickly if it's only 200 hours, or even 400.
Now as for size of MMO d/l... Conan's download exceeds my bandwidth cap for my ISP and from what has been said so too will SW:TOR (I see I can buy the hard copy so a fix for that).
My point was that with only 200 hours of gametime to level cap just what is all the Gb's for anyway? Your point of ingame world content is a good one and fits what we know about SW:TOR.
I prefer a longer 'journey', and quality/indepth crafting/harvesting, bigger world, less quest rails or atleast somewhat equal exploration killing/xp value...Never been a big quester, but its about all you can do anymore it seems.
Themeparks seem to be going towards a little more sandbox now, but things have been pretty bad, nothing to play but super rails for the most part, since I left Vanguard.
I don't care that their are games that cater to the 'now' crowd, just wish more over the past 5 years would of had some variety, instead of trying to recreate the next WoW...I wish WoW all the success in the world, I wish they had such a stranglehold on pure themeparks that everyone would get the clue that they need to bring something new to the table.
needs to be around 3-5 months of a solid storyline from start to finish with plenty to do. Then you can through in the recycle content to add maybe another month of additional content. Make the content dynamic and scalable to the point that it seems fresh when you play, then you sold me for life. 6 months of total gameplay time beats 200 hours. Put a fancy box pricetag on it for $200 to buy and $25 a month and ill buy lifetime subscriptions. I still think costs are too low for such a game, more like $500 and $100 a month for something with such solid content. Still would buy it and play it for life. Hands down, I want nothing handed to me, and I don't want total sandbox. Lead me by the hand, make a total rise of me going over content feeling like nothing to the end where I can actually make a difference. This would require thousands of quests, hundreds of instanced dungeon variations, dynamic events for almost everything, and players willing to partake in the world. It will never happen, the closest anyone can come to with that kind of content would be TOR. Admittedly, I favor having a fun time to end game than end game itself.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Why are you attacking 1 poster while the other poster, who stated that average gamers who like more than a few MMO's are stoners who live in the basement of their mom's house, was making far worse generalisations.
Unless you find it ok to make 1 generalisation that targets 1 group of MMO gamers is better than another generalisation that targets another group of MMO gamers?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."