Low replay value

Svarcanum

Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order. 

 

Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!

dubyahite

It has more replay value than any other themepark mmo in my opinion.



The story is different. You can make different choices. Your character's voice is different. Your character actually ha a personality and it's different for each class and alignment of those classes.

 

edited to add: I have never been much of a roleplayer. In fact, I've never really been interested in RP at all, but this game actually has me thinking about who my character is, what their personality is, what kind of choices they would make based on who they are. I wonder about their back story and think about what makes them tick. This has translated to every character I have played (around 12 of them).  To me this adds an incredible amount of replayability that I have never seen in an MMO before. I love replaying Bioware games and this one is no different to me. 

cyress8

People have been saying the game gives 200+ hours of unique story for your characters. That is where the great replay value has come from, in my opinion. They really need to tell them that a good chunk of the content is shared by all characters for each faction.

toddze

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order. 

 

Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!

From my beta experience, I agree with you but, most of these fans wont realize this sad truth until they do it a couple times. The choices your allowed to make have a minimal impact at most, and nothing more than an illusion of choice. But you and I will be flammed for this, but it doesnt matter because they will find this out the hard way.

dubyahite

Originally posted by cyress8

People have been saying the game gives 200+ hours of unique story for your characters. That is where the great replay value has come from, in my opinion. They really need to tell them that a good chunk of the content is shared by all characters for each faction.

This isn't true. What they said is that each character has about 200 hours of story gameplay, not unique story gameplay. Basically the average to finish the story on a character is 200 hours, but there is a lot of overlap.

 

Isane

Originally posted by dubyahite

It has more replay value than any other themepark mmo in my opinion.



The story is different. You can make different choices. Your character's voice is different. Your character actually ha a personality and it's different for each class and alignment of those classes.

 

edited to add: I have never been much of a roleplayer. In fact, I've never really been interested in RP at all, but this game actually has me thinking about who my character is, what their personality is, what kind of choices they would make based on who they are. I wonder about their back story and think about what makes them tick. This has translated to every character I have played (around 12 of them).  To me this adds an incredible amount of replayability that I have never seen in an MMO before. I love replaying Bioware games and this one is no different to me. 

Agreed.... The storylines are fun and the game in general is as well and 2-4 good friends added to this makes it even better without the need to be a guild slave which is a double bonus.

Well done Bioware

tank017

I'd say the true replay value for this game is:

 

Difference of classes,though u need only to really play one side to try em all.

 

and Story,even though your 'choices' dont really even matter.

Svarcanum

I did enjoy choosing the "other" answer on all quests, but I have yet to see my actions impacting anything. But seeing as the game is so frustratingly linear (at least the first 26 levels I played) it really doesn't make for good replay value. And let's be honest here, the personal story really doesn't take up much time. If I count what's unique in my story (thus not the actual questing since that takes place in the same areas other classes quest) I'd say it's less than 5% of my play time from 1-26. 

 

Compare that to Vanguard or WoW (until you hit Outlands) where you can level a new character and not once kill even the same mob as your previous character. That's what I call replay value. 

dubyahite

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order. 

 

Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!

From my beta experience, I agree with you but, most of these fans wont realize this sad truth until they do it a couple times. The choices your allowed to make have a minimal impact at most, and nothing more than an illusion of choice. But you and I will be flammed for this, but it doesnt matter because they will find this out the hard way.

I've done it 12 times, and I can't wait until launch to do it again and make my character mine. Sorry but that is just pure speculation and you have no evidence to back it up.

 

Your opinion is not my opinion. Many others agree with me. 

Svarcanum

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order. 

 

Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!

From my beta experience, I agree with you but, most of these fans wont realize this sad truth until they do it a couple times. The choices your allowed to make have a minimal impact at most, and nothing more than an illusion of choice. But you and I will be flammed for this, but it doesnt matter because they will find this out the hard way.

I've done it 12 times, and I can't wait until launch to do it again and make my character mine. Sorry but that is just pure speculation and you have no evidence to back it up.

 

Your opinion is not my opinion. Many others agree with me. 

I've done it twice now on the same faction and I'm on the verge of cancelling my preorder.. I know it's my opinion, but it's kind of ironic that I might pass on swtor because of uncommonly low replay value and nothing else:P

hikaru77

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order. 

 

Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!

From my beta experience, I agree with you but, most of these fans wont realize this sad truth until they do it a couple times. The choices your allowed to make have a minimal impact at most, and nothing more than an illusion of choice. But you and I will be flammed for this, but it doesnt matter because they will find this out the hard way.

LoL, this is just too much, complaining because swtor  have a low replay value?, what are you talking about?, seriusly, is a joke right?. 

CazNeerg

Low replay value, compared to what?  You didn't give us the standard you are judging against.  It has substantially more replay value than any other BioWare game that I can think of.  It also has substantially more replay value than any other MMO I can think of.  So what is your yardstick?

DexterMMO

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order. 

 

Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!

From my beta experience, I agree with you but, most of these fans wont realize this sad truth until they do it a couple times. The choices your allowed to make have a minimal impact at most, and nothing more than an illusion of choice. But you and I will be flammed for this, but it doesnt matter because they will find this out the hard way.

From my beta experience, I disagree with you. Most of these haters wont realize this sad truth until they they pick one gun class and one jedi class or swap factions. The story will be filled with choices that add to your light or dark side that opens up into gear end game. It's sad that i'll be flammed for this, but it doesn't matter because they will find this out the hard way.

further more SWTOR has more replayability than just about every other MMO. Choices are a new system, something that can greatly be expanded upon on content patches and expansion packs. So what's your problem, don't make me go to your history to find it. Better yet please show me a MMO with better replayability and explain so I can see from your PoV.

Svarcanum

Btw, this "200 hrs of unique game play" myth really needs to be debunked! BW:s way of counting these hours is way off, imo. 

 

***miiiinor spoiler alert***

 

Take the Dark/Black Temple in Dromund Kaas as an example. I did it for on my Sith Sorc. Listned to class quest dialog, travelling, picking up side quests, clearing the temple, completing side quests and doing class quest took me about 1.5hrs. However, the only unique parts of this was ONE room in the temple and the VO that started it all. This all took my tops 5mins out of my 1.5hrs. The rest was COMPLETELY shared with my BH with whom I did it this weekend.

Cthulhu23

Originally posted by CazNeerg

Low replay value, compared to what?  You didn't give us the standard you are judging against.  It has substantially more replay value than any other BioWare game that I can think of.  It also has substantially more replay value than any other MMO I can think of.  So what is your yardstick?

Exactly.  My guess is that he's comparing it to Skyrim.  

toddze

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by toddze

 

I've done it 12 times, and I can't wait until launch to do it again and make my character mine. Sorry but that is just pure speculation and you have no evidence to back it up.

 

Your opinion is not my opinion. Many others agree with me. 

Ive played it I know, speculation would be from someone who hasnt played it. But I am glad you enjoy it, and I am happy for you. and like you said:

Your opinion is not my opinion. Many others agree with me. It just so happens I will be out numbered on this forum for the time being because its a fourm for tor fans. Mark my words  you will  see a lot more of these topics after the game releases and the fans see more of this "story driven" game.

Svarcanum

World of Warcraft and Vanguard has better replayabilty, to name two completely un-alike theme park games. And by replayabilty I mean playing the same game all over but doing different content the other time around. Not the same thing but with different flavor text/VO.

 

For me I think swtor's extreme linearity is the culprit. In other games I can choose myself what areas/planets I want to level in. Or at least what quest hubs I want to do in what order. Not all other games, but the games I like, at least.

dubyahite

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order. 

 

Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!

From my beta experience, I agree with you but, most of these fans wont realize this sad truth until they do it a couple times. The choices your allowed to make have a minimal impact at most, and nothing more than an illusion of choice. But you and I will be flammed for this, but it doesnt matter because they will find this out the hard way.

I've done it 12 times, and I can't wait until launch to do it again and make my character mine. Sorry but that is just pure speculation and you have no evidence to back it up.

 

Your opinion is not my opinion. Many others agree with me. 

I've done it twice now on the same faction and I'm on the verge of cancelling my preorder.. I know it's my opinion, but it's kind of ironic that I might pass on swtor because of uncommonly low replay value and nothing else:P

Personally, I usually do not care one bit about replay value in an mmo (as far as alts go). I don't think I have ever gotten an alt to level cap in any mmo I have ever played. I hate doing it. 

This game is different. I would never have stuck with a beta so long that had as many wipes as this one. I would be burned out before the game even came out. For some reason, in SWTOR I never minded the character wipes. It just gave me an excuse to play a totally different character.

 

Saying "most fans won't realize this sad truth until they do it a couple times" is a mistake in my opinion. You have no way of knowing how most people are going to react to this, and I think that people are going to enjoy the replayability value of this game.

 

There will be people, of course, that don't find it very replayable like yourself, but if they are anything like I normally am they won't care. It is simply not a feature I have ever cared about in an MMO. The example of being able to do completely different quests and kill different mobs on an alt in WoW, for example, means nothing to me. It doesn't make the game more replayable to me. Its just the same stuff in a different zone, and the leveling process just infuriates me before too long.

 

TOR has a way of sucking me into the character and story in a way that I don't notice the leveling process at all. It doesn't feel like a grind. Sometimes I don't even noticed that I've gained 2 or 3 levels, or I completely forget to train up my skills for a long time. To me, this is the greatest feature possible when talking about replayabiltiy. I don't feel like I'm leveling, the second time around feels a lot different to me than the first. It takes away the part I hate most about rolling alts. 

Svarcanum

On the first playthrough I'd agree with you that it didn't feel like a grind at. And it was quite refreshing. In contrast my second playthrough on the same faction felt really grindy, and I kept catching myself counting how many pixels of xp I got from every mob and every quest turn in. And I'm not usually like that!

Cthulhu23

Originally posted by toddze

 

Ive played it I know, speculation would be from someone who hasnt played it. But I am glad you enjoy it, and I am happy for you. and like you said:

Your opinion is not my opinion. Many others agree with me. It just so happens I will be out numbered on this forum for the time being because its a fourm for tor fans. Mark my words  you will  see a lot more of these topics after the game releases and the fans see more of this "story driven" game.

Lol, a forum for TOR fans?  You must be new around here.  And I am marking your words, and I'll be remembering them as I enjoy levelling up my 3rd or 4th character in this game.  

CazNeerg

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by CazNeerg

Low replay value, compared to what?  You didn't give us the standard you are judging against.  It has substantially more replay value than any other BioWare game that I can think of.  It also has substantially more replay value than any other MMO I can think of.  So what is your yardstick?

Exactly.  My guess is that he's comparing it to Skyrim.  

Haven't played Skyrim yet, but if it's like the last couple of Elder Scrolls games, it would have zero replay value, because every quest could only play out one way, and a single character could complete every piece of content in the entire game.

 

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Btw, this "200 hrs of unique game play" myth really needs to be debunked! BW:s way of counting these hours is way off, imo. 

***miiiinor spoiler alert***

 Take the Dark/Black Temple in Dromund Kaas as an example. I did it for on my Sith Sorc. Listned to class quest dialog, travelling, picking up side quests, clearing the temple, completing side quests and doing class quest took me about 1.5hrs. However, the only unique parts of this was ONE room in the temple and the VO that started it all. This all took my tops 5mins out of my 1.5hrs. The rest was COMPLETELY shared with my BH with whom I did it this weekend.

BioWare never made any claim about 200 hours of unique gameplay per class.  Not once.  They said 200 hours to level cap.  Which still means more than 200 hours of unique content *per faction* if the 200 hour estimate is accurate.  They have adjusted experience gain several times though, so whether or not it still takes that long for the average player to hit level cap, I have no idea.

toddze

Tor will have more replay value than the average mmo, that I can agree with. However IMO reality will not live up to the hype, not even close. And debating you guys over this right now is impossible becasue the new game feeling hasnt worn off. That new game feeling blinds so many fans in every mmo release.  So with that said ill take my leave out of this thread. But ill be back to gloat in a couple months, when these type of  threads start plauging this forum.

dubyahite

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Btw, this "200 hrs of unique game play" myth really needs to be debunked! BW:s way of counting these hours is way off, imo. 

 

***miiiinor spoiler alert***

 

Take the Dark/Black Temple in Dromund Kaas as an example. I did it for on my Sith Sorc. Listned to class quest dialog, travelling, picking up side quests, clearing the temple, completing side quests and doing class quest took me about 1.5hrs. However, the only unique parts of this was ONE room in the temple and the VO that started it all. This all took my tops 5mins out of my 1.5hrs. The rest was COMPLETELY shared with my BH with whom I did it this weekend.

 It's not Bioware's counting that is messed up it's peoples interpretation of what they said. Even you are misinterpreting what BW said.

 

They never said this game had 200 unique gameplay hours per class. They said that it had 200 hours of story based gameplay per class. He was basically saying it will take you 200 hours to complete the story with each class.

 

This has been debunked many times, but people (like yourself) keep repeating this misinformation about "200 unique hours."

 

tank017

Games with more replay value:

 

Vanguard,tons of different classes and sheer land mass,unique/different starting areas.

DAOC, unique different classes and realms.

Everquest,same as vanguard just about.

City of heroes,for its different classes alone

Asheron's Call,classless building alone..

 

I'll add more if they come to mind.

 

 

Svarcanum

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by Svarcanum

Btw, this "200 hrs of unique game play" myth really needs to be debunked! BW:s way of counting these hours is way off, imo. 

 

***miiiinor spoiler alert***

 

Take the Dark/Black Temple in Dromund Kaas as an example. I did it for on my Sith Sorc. Listned to class quest dialog, travelling, picking up side quests, clearing the temple, completing side quests and doing class quest took me about 1.5hrs. However, the only unique parts of this was ONE room in the temple and the VO that started it all. This all took my tops 5mins out of my 1.5hrs. The rest was COMPLETELY shared with my BH with whom I did it this weekend.

 It's not Bioware's counting that is messed up it's peoples interpretation of what they said. Even you are misinterpreting what BW said.

 

They never said this game had 200 unique gameplay hours per class. They said that it had 200 hours of story based gameplay per class. He was basically saying it will take you 200 hours to complete the story with each class.

 

This has been debunked many times, but people (like yourself) keep repeating this misinformation about "200 unique hours."

 

It wasn't me who brought it up in this thread. It was Cypress8. I merely debunked it. I'm definitely not part of the perpetualizing of this particular myth. Even though I admit to having misinterpreted BW original statement.

cyress8

---

Originally posted by tank017
Games with more replay value:
 
Vanguard,tons of different classes and sheer land mass,unique/different starting areas.
DAOC,it unique different classes and realms.
Everquest,same as vanguard just about.
City of heroes,for its different classes alone
Asheron's Call,classless building alone..
 
I'll add more if they come to mind.
 
 

---

Yeah, can say there are people who still play vanguard for over 3-4 years and they still have not seen all the content. People are still finding off the path dungeons that never been ventured in before.