Im glad you have done it 13 times now. You think the average MMO'er is even going come close to that number? Especially in a genre dominated by players that rushs to cap? Not even considering how fickle the MMO player base is these days. Ya I am sure theres going to be a nich hardcore group thats going to want to do every storyline. For the most part its going to be another game thats prime is 60-90 days. Just like rift, and every other mmo thats released over the past 5 years.
This issue will come up again and again over the next few months, because this game is over hyped on the replay value. Like I said before yes the replay value is better than your average mmo, but its not even close to what bioware has hyped it to be.
I love when people pass off their opinions as stone cold facts and prophecies. I am always so grateful that they can set the unwashed masses straight about the reality of a game and give us mouth-breathers fair warning. I salute you, Sir. Thank God you were here to tell me what I'm going to find boring three months from now. If not, I may have actually just gone right on enjoying the game, and what a tragedy that would have been.
Your welcome Glad I could help ya.
But like I eluded to there will be hardcore SW/bioware fans that will have fun with this game for a long while. But its not going to be the 2nd coming of jesus. Its nothing more than a 90 day'er for the average mmo'er. The replay value will be on the frontlines because its one of the most hyped features. If you have followed mmo's for any length of time you would know by default that the most hyped features are ALWAYS some of the most critcised and highly debated features of an MMO. My "prophecies" have a lot of statisical backing. There is absolutly nothing hinting that this game may break the trend of countless past mmo releases.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
AoC is f2p because it's a turd, L2 is only free to play in the west, and because it's old and NCwest sucks.
Again, there are many themepark mmorpgs released since 2003 who have areas to choose where to lvl up and quest.
SWTOR doesn't, so it's normal to say that SWTOR lacks alt replayability.
Lineage 2 is FTP. AoC is FTP. There is no difference why either is that way other than.. they both losing customers. Period. So if one is a turd, the other is as well. Even Aion isn't FTP in the West yet so your point isn't valid.
Choosing where to level up isn't all that it seems. Many of those areas people will get bored with one time through. You could have a choice of eating a ketchup pack or a mustard pack, but bottom line is.. it's still condiments not worth eating.
There is a reason many games from 2003 are either FTP or headed that way. The "choices" they offer don't amount to crap after a time. That's why ToR will have more replayability, because of the story elements of the character's development, not WHERE they do it lol.
Ask yourself: do you care more about your toons or what the ground looks like? If you say "ground", you've been playing too many bad mmos that were far too easy to leave because you never cared about your toon.
It has just as many zones as other games and more than most as far as storylines. People who just want to speed level, that doesn't matter and they will continue to play the crappy FTP versions.
Aion is still P2P because it's only 3 years old, give it 1 or 2 years and it will also be F2P.
Lineage 2 has 2 million subs in the east (more than all the western mmorpgs put together without WOW).
Now it looks like the main way to lvl up in themepark mmorpgs is bad and boring.
"Choosing where to level up isn't all that it seems."
How on earth is having different scenarios and quests - the main way to lvl up in themepark mmorpgs, MORE CONTENT- not important?
Seriously, how much of a fanboy can you be?
Now nothing matters, new and more contet doesn't matter, the quest are all the same, who cares where they are, who cares if i have to kill different mobs, nothing matters.
lol
In WOW i can lvl up 4 characters of the same faction without repeating a single quest.
In SWTOR i will have to do the same quests, 4 times.
Play in the same areas, 4 times.
Kill the same mobs, 4 times.
I also love the game but im not blind, SWTOR lacks alt replayability, the graphics are sub-par at best, the world is static and lacks basic features like /sit, day & night cycle, etc.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
AoC is f2p because it's a turd, L2 is only free to play in the west, and because it's old and NCwest sucks.
Again, there are many themepark mmorpgs released since 2003 who have areas to choose where to lvl up and quest.
SWTOR doesn't, so it's normal to say that SWTOR lacks alt replayability.
Lineage 2 is FTP. AoC is FTP. There is no difference why either is that way other than.. they both losing customers. Period. So if one is a turd, the other is as well. Even Aion isn't FTP in the West yet so your point isn't valid.
Choosing where to level up isn't all that it seems. Many of those areas people will get bored with one time through. You could have a choice of eating a ketchup pack or a mustard pack, but bottom line is.. it's still condiments not worth eating.
There is a reason many games from 2003 are either FTP or headed that way. The "choices" they offer don't amount to crap after a time. That's why ToR will have more replayability, because of the story elements of the character's development, not WHERE they do it lol.
Ask yourself: do you care more about your toons or what the ground looks like? If you say "ground", you've been playing too many bad mmos that were far too easy to leave because you never cared about your toon.
It has just as many zones as other games and more than most as far as storylines. People who just want to speed level, that doesn't matter and they will continue to play the crappy FTP versions.
The major reason games go f2p is because the end game. AoC end game is pathetic. You have to keep the players chassing that carrot. You have to make chassing that carrot challenging. You have to have robust options. It has to be engaging. It has to be constantly evolving. There needs to be some sort of meaning. Otherwise your player base will get bored and move on.
Rolling alts slightly prolongs the bordom. But when you get to the same place you were. the path there gets rather redundant. regaudless of how many options you have getting there.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Originally posted by spaceport Aion is still P2P because it's only 3 years old, give it 1 or 2 years and it will also be F2P. Lineage 2 has 2 million subs in the east (more than all the western mmorpgs put together without WOW). Now it looks like the main way to lvl up in themepark mmorpgs is bad and boring. "Choosing where to level up isn't all that it seems." How on earth is having different scenarios and quests - the main way to lvl up in themepark mmorpgs, MORE CONTENT- not important?
Seriously, how much of a fanboy can you be? Now nothing matters, new and more contet doesn't matter, the quest are all the same, who cares where they are, who cares if i have to kill different mobs, nothing matters. lol In WOW i can lvl up 4 characters of the same faction without repeating a single quest. In SWTOR i will have to do the same quests, 4 times. Play in the same areas, 4 times. Kill the same mobs, 4 times.
I also love the game but im not blind, SWTOR lacks alt replayability, the graphics are sub-par at best, the world is static and lacks basic features like /sit, day & night cycle, etc.
The question isn't why isn't Aion FTP, it's that it isn't. The assertion was that FTP=crappy which isn't true. Two millions subs in the East isn't much when they don't pay as much; I think everyone knows this from WoW. You saying "give it one or two years" is moot because we won't be having this conversation in two years. (at least I won't be)
How much of a fanboy can I be? Is that like me asking how much of a troll you are? If so, let's not go down the namecalling route. If you disagree, fine. Let's try and keep it adult and above the belt though lest moderators drop some wrath, ok?
I played WoW and I enjoyed my time there (not more than a year). I found the game very fun and had lots to do. I leveled up three 50s and stopped before Lich King, came back to see Cat.
The reason why I like ToR vs WoW is because it simple terms, WoW is a game where leveling is the most important thing about the game. You have all these constant reminders that you have to stay up with everyone or you will be left behind. Go into any zone like Feralas and see how many people are doing the dungeons there (dunno if they are still there after Cat) and it will show you there is content and CHOICE of leveling zone/area, but no reason to go there. It doesn't add to your character other than exp points.
In ToR, it's not about leveling. It's about character development or Roleplaying if you will. You don't (least I didn't) sit there at level 5 and want to hurry up and get to level 10 because of the immersion of character. The storyline/lore was so much fun that I could have been leveling in a paper bag and wouldn't have cared. I was IN the story, talking with the characters I'd seen in all the CGIs. That didn't happen in WoW... in WoW I was background cardboard to what was going on in the game. In ToR, I was the game and my partymates were the game.
When I realized I could do this over and over multiple times on different planets with different results, the replay value had me sold. That's what I want from a game; immersion, fun, story... not a zone to "level in".
I'll just do a quick comparison of content between this and a couple of other games I've played to max level, haven't played SWTOR to max but I've researched content.
Starter zones:
SWTOR: Four starter worlds with two classes on each, two on Imperial Side and Two on Republic side with eight distinct stories and shared world stories
Rift: Two starter zones, one on each faction side, two distinct stories
AoC: One starter zone with small changes of story for each archetype
Out of newby zone:
SWTOR: Two faction capitals, eight distinct stories, two shared world stories
Rift: Two faction zones, two distinct stories
AoC: Four zones, four distinct stories
Further in and until endgame:
SWTOR: One set of zones, based on level, with one shared story, eight distinct class stories
Rift: One set of zones, based on level, one story
AoC: One set of zones, based on level, one story
SWTOR doesn't do too badly on the longevity front compared with those two examples.
But compare that to WoW, Vanguard and EQ2. Major difference. You can even just use vanilla WoW and you still have more leveling options that literally let you see completely different parts of the game per character. SWTOR does not have this option.
Personally, I'm in agreement with the OP and it's THE major reason I have a problem with SWTOR. However, I have the same problem with Rift and AoC. 2 other mmorpgs I like to play. Thing is, if they had the replayability that WoW, EQ2 and Vanguard have I would have stayed subbed 2 to 3 times longer than I initially did. Now I just pop in and out of those games for content patches.
That being said, I think the answer, since Bioware isn't going to change this aspect, is to flip flop when rolling alts. For example. Roll a Jedi Knight, get to endgame, do whatever, then when you get the urge to play a new character, roll on the Empire side. RInse and repeat going back and forth to empire to republic, this way the quests you are familiar with have a chance to leave your memory. this method has worked recently for games that are old to me now, like WoW, EQ2, Lotro, Vanguard since I've played them so long I've seen all the leveling content there is, for the most part.
The major reason games go f2p is because the end game. AoC end game is pathetic. You have to keep the players chassing that carrot.
Rolling alts slightly prolongs the bordom. But when you get to the same place you were. the path there gets rather redundant. regaudless of how many options you have getting there.
This isn't true of all games, Toddze. So even if it is true for MOST games, we already know going in that TOR isn't like "most games" in that it's based around your character's path, not your character's level.
Most games have you chasing the exp bar as a means to keep playing. Then when that runs out, they have you chase that next carrot; endgame gear/pvp gear. That's it. Story STOPS COLD. That's why the games fail. They have people chasing the wrong thing from the beginning.
The reason I didn't leave FFXI until almost four years later wasn't because of the stellar gameplay, because I had no where to level, or because it was grindy. The simple reason I left is because the story stopped after awhile. Leveling up was a big adventure, couldn't wait to see the next cutscenes, characters, seeing my toon's involved in them.. very immersive. When you hit max, you had some but not like you progressed and the endgame became a little stale while in-between expansions.
If you want to know why games go FTP, it's because no story. People don't care if their toons live/die because they didn't care about them leveling up. I know people who cared less about their actual toons more than the money it cost to repair them when they died and that's sad.
Really Teala's blog sums this topic up quite nicely. She hit the nail spot on for the replay value.
"I can say that the story driven quest were intersting the first time through, but after that I can see them getting vapidly aggravating. And despite the so called, make a choice story driven quest, it's all still linear and inconsequential. Like most MMO's of this nature your character is forced to go exactly where and when the developers tell you to take your character. You have no choice because if you don't you can't proceed to other areas. You are locked into a certain path and there is no way to deviate from it. Typical themepark game play mechanics. "
Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order.
Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!
I had the same thing with WoW, I made a human paladin then a human priest, all the leveling was the same, same quests same places, so I tired a horde orc warrior and an orc shamen I think it was, got to 15 on all of them then quit as it was all the same, same quests same hubs, no replay value, can't work out why people play it.....
Your first mistake was rolling the same race. If you had rolled a human, a dwarf and then a night elf, you could have had 3 completely different leveling experiences from zones to quests to mobs. Same with the horde side. Roll an orc, undead and Tauren, and again 3 different leveling paths and that was just in vanilla WoW. I remember being blown away at how I had leveled a night elf hunter to cap and then rolled a human mage to cap and how I never had the exact same quest, non dungeon wise, once. Was able to do the same with the horde side, hence why I subbed to that for years, it never got old UNTIL I had rolled on of each race. THEN I finally saw all the content. Then they went and blew up the world with Cataclysm changing that whole old world questing and zones. THAT's replayability.
Originally posted by toddze Really Teala's blog sums this topic up quite nicely. She hit the nail spot on for the replay value. "I can say that the story driven quest were intersting the first time through, but after that I can see them getting vapidly aggravating. And despite the so called, make a choice story driven quest, it's all still linear and inconsequential. Like most MMO's of this nature your character is forced to go exactly where and when the developers tell you to take your character. You have no choice because if you don't you can't proceed to other areas. You are locked into a certain path and there is no way to deviate from it. Typical themepark game play mechanics. "
With all due to respect with Teala, she's an Eve player and a Mount and Blade player. That's her type of game.. ones with no real story. She's more the strategy type person and I wouldn't expect her to be happy in TOR anymore than someone who's a Darkfall and Minecraft person would be. Her point simply isn't valid for the INTENDED audience Bioware/EA is looking for.
In fact, I'd wager to say Teala is exactly the type of person Bioware ISN'T looking for. In order to play ToR, you have to be a "roleplayer mentality" person or like console games. The reason being it's highly immersive when you stop trying to compare it as in "If I was playing X game, I wouldn't have to do this so this is stupid".
People who play mmos claim they like story but the simple fact is, a lot of them really don't and those are usually jaded vets. They are more interested in blowing things up, clicky past to the next quest without reading the previous ones, and min/maxing their raid gear. Story is lost on most of them and they will be the ones telling you "Geez, you're not done reading YET? Hurry up man, for God's sake! I wanna play!"
Bioware doesn't want these folks, they want players who like story or haven't played MMOs by the truckload already. That's not Teala and probably half the wanderers aimlessly wandering these game forum sites hoping to find a game because they are simply bored with everything else.
The reason I didn't leave FFXI until almost four years later wasn't because of the stellar gameplay, because I had no where to level, or because it was grindy. The simple reason I left is because the story stopped after awhile. Leveling up was a big adventure, couldn't wait to see the next cutscenes, characters, seeing my toon's involved in them.. very immersive. When you hit max, you had some but not like you progressed and the endgame became a little stale while in-between expansions.
Glad you brought up XI because thats the game i am most versed in. The amount of story in XI was extremly weak and very minimal. But what was there was excelent. XI had the end-game i mentioned. Thats what kept the hardcore playing for years. If you were to only focus on story in XI you could be done with that game in 4 months. In XI there was a real community. You had a sense of being apart of the world. Theres no way you could milk 4 years of story out of XI. You probably like me felt a connection to your character, a connection to the world. Which is lacking in virtually every mmo released these days, Alts destroy that feeling, and impossible to get it when your always re-rolling.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Tor will have more replay value than the average mmo, that I can agree with. However IMO reality will not live up to the hype, not even close. And debating you guys over this right now is impossible becasue the new game feeling hasnt worn off. That new game feeling blinds so many fans in every mmo release. So with that said ill take my leave out of this thread. But ill be back to gloat in a couple months, when these type of threads start plauging this forum.
You really care enough to come back and gloat about it? Have a lot of spare time, do you?
Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order.
Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!
I agree, as well as many other mmo enthusiasts. At this point, it isn't even a matter of mmo themepark vs mmo sandbox, but whether it'smore of a single-player rpg or cooperative instanced themepark.
Tor will have more replay value than the average mmo, that I can agree with. However IMO reality will not live up to the hype, not even close. And debating you guys over this right now is impossible becasue the new game feeling hasnt worn off. That new game feeling blinds so many fans in every mmo release. So with that said ill take my leave out of this thread. But ill be back to gloat in a couple months, when these type of threads start plauging this forum.
You really care enough to come back and gloat about it? Have a lot of spare time, do you?
Yup sunday evening and was bored out of my mind. But since you dug that post all the way up from many pages ago, your obviously just as bored as me and have just as much time as me
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I would say, that the max number of classes one would have fun playing is 2 on each side of the fence, the first one will be great, the seccond one will be okay, espescially of thefirst one has been some time ago.
Replayvallue for 2 classes in the same main class is low, for example a shade and a sage, because they share the whole story, i would say one just needs to play characters from all starting planets.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Difference of classes,though u need only to really play one side to try em all.
and Story,even though your 'choices' dont really even matter.
not really, republic has the bfg commando class, empire has the lightning shooters, republic has the emo jedi, empire has highest dps tanks (important in pvp since they soak up the most dmg while putting out more then the mirror can if its specced to soak up the same amounts)
im going to be mostly on the empire side with a sith jugg assassin sorc and bounty hunter named mandalor, but i need to roll a repub to get a commando with a gatling gun.
Originally posted by toddze Originally posted by popinjay
The reason I didn't leave FFXI until almost four years later wasn't because of the stellar gameplay, because I had no where to level, or because it was grindy. The simple reason I left is because the story stopped after awhile. Leveling up was a big adventure, couldn't wait to see the next cutscenes, characters, seeing my toon's involved in them.. very immersive. When you hit max, you had some but not like you progressed and the endgame became a little stale while in-between expansions.
Glad you brought up XI because thats the game i am most versed in. The amount of story in XI was extremly weak and very minimal. But what was there was excelent. XI had the end-game i mentioned. Thats what kept the hardcore playing for years. If you were to only focus on story in XI you could be done with that game in 4 months. In XI there was a real community. You had a sense of being apart of the world. Theres no way you could milk 4 years of story out of XI. You probably like me felt a connection to your character, a connection to the world. Which is lacking in virtually every mmo released these days, Alts destroy that feeling, and impossible to get it when your always re-rolling. This is pretty much it, well said.
I enjoyed what was there but the problem was after awhile, the game simply stopped giving you a reason to care about your toon as far as immersion. I can almost remember EXACTLY the minute it happened for me.
I had my RDM/NIN and they had just released the advanced skills and new spells (before Dancer and those newer classes came). I was over by the sea area grinding on those Siren serpent things when I had just killed one and was actually aware of opening the menu and checking to see how much exp I got for doing it. Wasn't too bad as exp went but almost immediately, I logged out and only came back to pass my account to my guildies. I simply was tired of grinding for grinding's sake.
ToR is the first game I've played since then that had a storyline I could follow where I felt I was part of the actual game and not just someone playing a toon; escapism and immersion which is why I started playing MMOs for in the first place.. not loot or zones to level in. And certainly not leveling for leveling's sake. So when I play TOR, I'll play one toon start to finish because I want to have an adventure and when that's done, I'll have another one in a different area with a different one without having to really pretend I'm having one due to the cutscenes and storylines.
That's the replay value for me I don't understand people are saying they don't see. Seems like to me, for them it's all about leveling.. not progressing.
ToR allows me to focus on the story and the leveling is a side benefit vs leveling as the focus with story as a side benefit, which I found in Rift and other games since. Vanguard was the closest but that was only because it was very diverse and had Diplomacy and many factions with many stories.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus I would say, that the max number of classes one would have fun playing is 2 on each side of the fence, the first one will be great, the seccond one will be okay, espescially of thefirst one has been some time ago. Replayvallue for 2 classes in the same main class is low, for example a shade and a sage, because they share the whole story, i would say one just needs to play characters from all starting planets.
This.
My probable tactic for playing TOR will be:
1. Start a Sith toon on Planet 1, adventure to max.
2. Start a Jedi toon on Planet 1, adventure to max.
3. Start a Sith toon on Planet 2, adventure to max.
4. Start a Jedi toon on Planet 2, adventure to max.
I doubt I'll get all of them to max (will be doing some PvP on some of them; some light raiding on others) but I will try. Also, considering they'll more than likely add more endgame story for toons, I'd have to go back and finish up after I parked one.
I'll probably take a break in-between toons as well to "reset" my mindset.
Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order.
Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!
I see no less replay value in this game than in any other MMO. In fact, the eight unique story lines for the base classes actually increases it over most other games in my opimion. Plus those story lines go from the very start of the game to max level, which is again more than any other MMO out there excepting maybe one or two.
What you and many others seems seem to forget though is this is an MMO. Replayability may be important, but often we keep playing an MMO long after we would have quit any other type of game because we enjoy playing with friends we have met in the game. I know that has been true for me on more than one occassion.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I think it all comes back to the heavy emphasis on story, again. Some players like that so much that they can see playing through every story, enjoying every little variation. Other players look at replayability in terms of all the other content. Combat that varies a lot from class to class, different starter areas, different levelling grounds to focus on - and because of the story emphasis, it feels like there's less replayability in every other aspect. That's fine if you like the story enough, but not so much, if you don't.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
People have been saying the game gives 200+ hours of unique story for your characters. That is where the great replay value has come from, in my opinion. They really need to tell them that a good chunk of the content is shared by all characters for each faction.
This isn't true. What they said is that each character has about 200 hours of story gameplay, not unique story gameplay. Basically the average to finish the story on a character is 200 hours, but there is a lot of overlap.
And then you can play each class with a different sex... and get 200+ more hours of gameplay... then you can play each sex with various body-type character models and get like 600+ more hours for each sex.... OMG!!!!!!!!
Having taken a character to 50 (jedi sage), I'll tell you that you're looking at about 5-10% of the game as "story-related." How long that takes you depends on what you count.... are you counting standing around crafting... are you counting your PvP time... etc..
Getting to level 50 was not as quick as say RIFT... but no doubt, there will be those dinging 50 in a matter of days (grouping and spamming the 4-man heroics is probably your best bet, if that's your game).
ToR does not have the variety of zones that WoW did, on launch. Vanilla WoW, you could - in fact... take a character from level 1-60 without going through the same low/mid/high zones as another character of the same faction. Choices narrowed as you gained levels... but the "pyramid" was wider. ToR - you get 2 different starting worlds.... after that you'll be following the same path as everyone else in your faction.
I did enjoy choosing the "other" answer on all quests, but I have yet to see my actions impacting anything. But seeing as the game is so frustratingly linear (at least the first 26 levels I played) it really doesn't make for good replay value. And let's be honest here, the personal story really doesn't take up much time. If I count what's unique in my story (thus not the actual questing since that takes place in the same areas other classes quest) I'd say it's less than 5% of my play time from 1-26.
Compare that to Vanguard or WoW (until you hit Outlands) where you can level a new character and not once kill even the same mob as your previous character. That's what I call replay value.
So doing the same quest but killing a different looking mob is replay value?
If you actually do PvP Warfronts and some Space Combat you will get enough xp from those to skip most side quests, that way when you role an alt you can do the side quests you skip over on your main..... Now if your a person who has to do every freakin quest they see to it's completion regardless of your level then ya you'll be redoing a lot of stuff over again with an alt... But at the very least you class story is different....
And why do people think there actions in the dialogue are going to make some sort of ground breaking changes to the game world?!? this is a MMO not a single player RPG, in a single player RPG they can change the world around you based on your choices because your the only one in the game... Can you imagine how big the game world would have to be if it changed based on everyone's choices they made ....
For example you know when you go to the tomb to get your first lightsaber as a Sith Warrior, well guess what its not there anymore because someone else got to it first, so no ligthsaber for you so enjoy that training sword the rest of the game..... You know that cute companion Mako you like, well you can't have her because she teamed up with someone else first.....
You know that quest you have to kill a specific Sith Lord, well you took to long and someone else killed him so you can never finish your quest now...
I did enjoy choosing the "other" answer on all quests, but I have yet to see my actions impacting anything. But seeing as the game is so frustratingly linear (at least the first 26 levels I played) it really doesn't make for good replay value. And let's be honest here, the personal story really doesn't take up much time. If I count what's unique in my story (thus not the actual questing since that takes place in the same areas other classes quest) I'd say it's less than 5% of my play time from 1-26.
Compare that to Vanguard or WoW (until you hit Outlands) where you can level a new character and not once kill even the same mob as your previous character. That's what I call replay value.
So doing the same quest but killing a different looking mob is replay value?
If you actually do PvP Warfronts and some Space Combat you will get enough xp from those to skip most side quests, that way when you role an alt you can do the side quests you skip over on your main.....
When you reroll an alt you are not stuck doing all the cross over quests. space combat and pvp give good xp so if you dont want to do all the questlines, dont. Stick with teh class story and play around in pvvp and such and you will progress fine.
Comments
Your welcome
Glad I could help ya.
But like I eluded to there will be hardcore SW/bioware fans that will have fun with this game for a long while. But its not going to be the 2nd coming of jesus. Its nothing more than a 90 day'er for the average mmo'er. The replay value will be on the frontlines because its one of the most hyped features. If you have followed mmo's for any length of time you would know by default that the most hyped features are ALWAYS some of the most critcised and highly debated features of an MMO. My "prophecies" have a lot of statisical backing. There is absolutly nothing hinting that this game may break the trend of countless past mmo releases.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Aion is still P2P because it's only 3 years old, give it 1 or 2 years and it will also be F2P.
Lineage 2 has 2 million subs in the east (more than all the western mmorpgs put together without WOW).
Now it looks like the main way to lvl up in themepark mmorpgs is bad and boring.
"Choosing where to level up isn't all that it seems."
How on earth is having different scenarios and quests - the main way to lvl up in themepark mmorpgs, MORE CONTENT- not important?
Seriously, how much of a fanboy can you be?
Now nothing matters, new and more contet doesn't matter, the quest are all the same, who cares where they are, who cares if i have to kill different mobs, nothing matters.
lol
In WOW i can lvl up 4 characters of the same faction without repeating a single quest.
In SWTOR i will have to do the same quests, 4 times.
Play in the same areas, 4 times.
Kill the same mobs, 4 times.
I also love the game but im not blind, SWTOR lacks alt replayability, the graphics are sub-par at best, the world is static and lacks basic features like /sit, day & night cycle, etc.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
The major reason games go f2p is because the end game. AoC end game is pathetic. You have to keep the players chassing that carrot. You have to make chassing that carrot challenging. You have to have robust options. It has to be engaging. It has to be constantly evolving. There needs to be some sort of meaning. Otherwise your player base will get bored and move on.
Rolling alts slightly prolongs the bordom. But when you get to the same place you were. the path there gets rather redundant. regaudless of how many options you have getting there.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
How much of a fanboy can I be? Is that like me asking how much of a troll you are? If so, let's not go down the namecalling route. If you disagree, fine. Let's try and keep it adult and above the belt though lest moderators drop some wrath, ok?
I played WoW and I enjoyed my time there (not more than a year). I found the game very fun and had lots to do. I leveled up three 50s and stopped before Lich King, came back to see Cat.
The reason why I like ToR vs WoW is because it simple terms, WoW is a game where leveling is the most important thing about the game. You have all these constant reminders that you have to stay up with everyone or you will be left behind. Go into any zone like Feralas and see how many people are doing the dungeons there (dunno if they are still there after Cat) and it will show you there is content and CHOICE of leveling zone/area, but no reason to go there. It doesn't add to your character other than exp points.
In ToR, it's not about leveling. It's about character development or Roleplaying if you will. You don't (least I didn't) sit there at level 5 and want to hurry up and get to level 10 because of the immersion of character. The storyline/lore was so much fun that I could have been leveling in a paper bag and wouldn't have cared. I was IN the story, talking with the characters I'd seen in all the CGIs. That didn't happen in WoW... in WoW I was background cardboard to what was going on in the game. In ToR, I was the game and my partymates were the game.
When I realized I could do this over and over multiple times on different planets with different results, the replay value had me sold. That's what I want from a game; immersion, fun, story... not a zone to "level in".
"TO MICHAEL!"
But compare that to WoW, Vanguard and EQ2. Major difference. You can even just use vanilla WoW and you still have more leveling options that literally let you see completely different parts of the game per character. SWTOR does not have this option.
Personally, I'm in agreement with the OP and it's THE major reason I have a problem with SWTOR. However, I have the same problem with Rift and AoC. 2 other mmorpgs I like to play. Thing is, if they had the replayability that WoW, EQ2 and Vanguard have I would have stayed subbed 2 to 3 times longer than I initially did. Now I just pop in and out of those games for content patches.
That being said, I think the answer, since Bioware isn't going to change this aspect, is to flip flop when rolling alts. For example. Roll a Jedi Knight, get to endgame, do whatever, then when you get the urge to play a new character, roll on the Empire side. RInse and repeat going back and forth to empire to republic, this way the quests you are familiar with have a chance to leave your memory. this method has worked recently for games that are old to me now, like WoW, EQ2, Lotro, Vanguard since I've played them so long I've seen all the leveling content there is, for the most part.
This isn't true of all games, Toddze. So even if it is true for MOST games, we already know going in that TOR isn't like "most games" in that it's based around your character's path, not your character's level.
Most games have you chasing the exp bar as a means to keep playing. Then when that runs out, they have you chase that next carrot; endgame gear/pvp gear. That's it. Story STOPS COLD. That's why the games fail. They have people chasing the wrong thing from the beginning.
The reason I didn't leave FFXI until almost four years later wasn't because of the stellar gameplay, because I had no where to level, or because it was grindy. The simple reason I left is because the story stopped after awhile. Leveling up was a big adventure, couldn't wait to see the next cutscenes, characters, seeing my toon's involved in them.. very immersive. When you hit max, you had some but not like you progressed and the endgame became a little stale while in-between expansions.
If you want to know why games go FTP, it's because no story. People don't care if their toons live/die because they didn't care about them leveling up. I know people who cared less about their actual toons more than the money it cost to repair them when they died and that's sad.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Really Teala's blog sums this topic up quite nicely. She hit the nail spot on for the replay value.
"I can say that the story driven quest were intersting the first time through, but after that I can see them getting vapidly aggravating. And despite the so called, make a choice story driven quest, it's all still linear and inconsequential. Like most MMO's of this nature your character is forced to go exactly where and when the developers tell you to take your character. You have no choice because if you don't you can't proceed to other areas. You are locked into a certain path and there is no way to deviate from it. Typical themepark game play mechanics. "
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Teala/112011/22265_Star-WarsTOR-My-Impressions-#comments
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Your first mistake was rolling the same race. If you had rolled a human, a dwarf and then a night elf, you could have had 3 completely different leveling experiences from zones to quests to mobs. Same with the horde side. Roll an orc, undead and Tauren, and again 3 different leveling paths and that was just in vanilla WoW. I remember being blown away at how I had leveled a night elf hunter to cap and then rolled a human mage to cap and how I never had the exact same quest, non dungeon wise, once. Was able to do the same with the horde side, hence why I subbed to that for years, it never got old UNTIL I had rolled on of each race. THEN I finally saw all the content. Then they went and blew up the world with Cataclysm changing that whole old world questing and zones. THAT's replayability.
In fact, I'd wager to say Teala is exactly the type of person Bioware ISN'T looking for. In order to play ToR, you have to be a "roleplayer mentality" person or like console games. The reason being it's highly immersive when you stop trying to compare it as in "If I was playing X game, I wouldn't have to do this so this is stupid".
People who play mmos claim they like story but the simple fact is, a lot of them really don't and those are usually jaded vets. They are more interested in blowing things up, clicky past to the next quest without reading the previous ones, and min/maxing their raid gear. Story is lost on most of them and they will be the ones telling you "Geez, you're not done reading YET? Hurry up man, for God's sake! I wanna play!"
Bioware doesn't want these folks, they want players who like story or haven't played MMOs by the truckload already. That's not Teala and probably half the wanderers aimlessly wandering these game forum sites hoping to find a game because they are simply bored with everything else.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Glad you brought up XI because thats the game i am most versed in. The amount of story in XI was extremly weak and very minimal. But what was there was excelent. XI had the end-game i mentioned. Thats what kept the hardcore playing for years. If you were to only focus on story in XI you could be done with that game in 4 months. In XI there was a real community. You had a sense of being apart of the world. Theres no way you could milk 4 years of story out of XI. You probably like me felt a connection to your character, a connection to the world. Which is lacking in virtually every mmo released these days, Alts destroy that feeling, and impossible to get it when your always re-rolling.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
You really care enough to come back and gloat about it? Have a lot of spare time, do you?
I agree, as well as many other mmo enthusiasts. At this point, it isn't even a matter of mmo themepark vs mmo sandbox, but whether it'smore of a single-player rpg or cooperative instanced themepark.
.
Yup sunday evening and was bored out of my mind. But since you dug that post all the way up from many pages ago, your obviously just as bored as me and have just as much time as me
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I would say, that the max number of classes one would have fun playing is 2 on each side of the fence, the first one will be great, the seccond one will be okay, espescially of thefirst one has been some time ago.
Replayvallue for 2 classes in the same main class is low, for example a shade and a sage, because they share the whole story, i would say one just needs to play characters from all starting planets.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
not really, republic has the bfg commando class, empire has the lightning shooters, republic has the emo jedi, empire has highest dps tanks (important in pvp since they soak up the most dmg while putting out more then the mirror can if its specced to soak up the same amounts)
im going to be mostly on the empire side with a sith jugg assassin sorc and bounty hunter named mandalor, but i need to roll a repub to get a commando with a gatling gun.
This is pretty much it, well said.
I enjoyed what was there but the problem was after awhile, the game simply stopped giving you a reason to care about your toon as far as immersion. I can almost remember EXACTLY the minute it happened for me.
I had my RDM/NIN and they had just released the advanced skills and new spells (before Dancer and those newer classes came). I was over by the sea area grinding on those Siren serpent things when I had just killed one and was actually aware of opening the menu and checking to see how much exp I got for doing it. Wasn't too bad as exp went but almost immediately, I logged out and only came back to pass my account to my guildies. I simply was tired of grinding for grinding's sake.
ToR is the first game I've played since then that had a storyline I could follow where I felt I was part of the actual game and not just someone playing a toon; escapism and immersion which is why I started playing MMOs for in the first place.. not loot or zones to level in. And certainly not leveling for leveling's sake. So when I play TOR, I'll play one toon start to finish because I want to have an adventure and when that's done, I'll have another one in a different area with a different one without having to really pretend I'm having one due to the cutscenes and storylines.
That's the replay value for me I don't understand people are saying they don't see. Seems like to me, for them it's all about leveling.. not progressing.
ToR allows me to focus on the story and the leveling is a side benefit vs leveling as the focus with story as a side benefit, which I found in Rift and other games since. Vanguard was the closest but that was only because it was very diverse and had Diplomacy and many factions with many stories.
"TO MICHAEL!"
My probable tactic for playing TOR will be:
1. Start a Sith toon on Planet 1, adventure to max.
2. Start a Jedi toon on Planet 1, adventure to max.
3. Start a Sith toon on Planet 2, adventure to max.
4. Start a Jedi toon on Planet 2, adventure to max.
I doubt I'll get all of them to max (will be doing some PvP on some of them; some light raiding on others) but I will try. Also, considering they'll more than likely add more endgame story for toons, I'd have to go back and finish up after I parked one.
I'll probably take a break in-between toons as well to "reset" my mindset.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I see no less replay value in this game than in any other MMO. In fact, the eight unique story lines for the base classes actually increases it over most other games in my opimion. Plus those story lines go from the very start of the game to max level, which is again more than any other MMO out there excepting maybe one or two.
What you and many others seems seem to forget though is this is an MMO. Replayability may be important, but often we keep playing an MMO long after we would have quit any other type of game because we enjoy playing with friends we have met in the game. I know that has been true for me on more than one occassion.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
And then you can play each class with a different sex... and get 200+ more hours of gameplay... then you can play each sex with various body-type character models and get like 600+ more hours for each sex.... OMG!!!!!!!!
Having taken a character to 50 (jedi sage), I'll tell you that you're looking at about 5-10% of the game as "story-related." How long that takes you depends on what you count.... are you counting standing around crafting... are you counting your PvP time... etc..
Getting to level 50 was not as quick as say RIFT... but no doubt, there will be those dinging 50 in a matter of days (grouping and spamming the 4-man heroics is probably your best bet, if that's your game).
ToR does not have the variety of zones that WoW did, on launch. Vanilla WoW, you could - in fact... take a character from level 1-60 without going through the same low/mid/high zones as another character of the same faction. Choices narrowed as you gained levels... but the "pyramid" was wider. ToR - you get 2 different starting worlds.... after that you'll be following the same path as everyone else in your faction.
everyone should read this guide before they talk like they know anything
http://liberi-fatali.net/the-old-republic/star-wars-the-old-republic-guide-and-faq/
So doing the same quest but killing a different looking mob is replay value?
If you actually do PvP Warfronts and some Space Combat you will get enough xp from those to skip most side quests, that way when you role an alt you can do the side quests you skip over on your main..... Now if your a person who has to do every freakin quest they see to it's completion regardless of your level then ya you'll be redoing a lot of stuff over again with an alt... But at the very least you class story is different....
And why do people think there actions in the dialogue are going to make some sort of ground breaking changes to the game world?!? this is a MMO not a single player RPG, in a single player RPG they can change the world around you based on your choices because your the only one in the game... Can you imagine how big the game world would have to be if it changed based on everyone's choices they made ....
For example you know when you go to the tomb to get your first lightsaber as a Sith Warrior, well guess what its not there anymore because someone else got to it first, so no ligthsaber for you so enjoy that training sword the rest of the game..... You know that cute companion Mako you like, well you can't have her because she teamed up with someone else first.....
You know that quest you have to kill a specific Sith Lord, well you took to long and someone else killed him so you can never finish your quest now...
You could make a similar statement about any MMO.
I
You won't be missed. Well maybe a littlePhilosophy of MMO Game Design
When you reroll an alt you are not stuck doing all the cross over quests. space combat and pvp give good xp so if you dont want to do all the questlines, dont. Stick with teh class story and play around in pvvp and such and you will progress fine.