I played the game during the open beta weekend and leveld a sith juggernaut to 16 and a concealment operative to 13.
Despite both classes leveling on different starter planets neither felt even close to being the same both from a gameplay stand point and class story differences.
I'm willing to bet I could level these 2 classes mirror's on the republic side(jedi sentinel and smuggler) and have a different enough experience thanks to different starter planets and class stories to make re-rolling alts worthwhile.
The fact this game has CLASS story content, world arcs and full voice over pretty much makes it better from a immersion and replay perspective over any other mmo ever made.
I played WoW for a little under a year and a half and logged a little over 100 days played on my 85 rogue=2400 hours and I don't know a damn thing about the story. Why? The quest text was so damn boring after while I couldn't be bothered to read it. I will give the game alot of credit because of it's great art design and vibrant colors as well as genuinely enjoying the play mechanics of the class I chose, but replay value was utter crap.
I wanted to play an alt mage and I never did because I just couldn't deal with leveling up an alt and all the grinding throughout the game. I hear the leveling process is alot faster now than it was during WotlK, but meh.
Vanguard is a game that had massive potential, but was plagued with bugs and poor performance at launch. That said I don't rememeber any of the story of that game either. I do remember it's landscape as being awesome though and having some nice classes.
I played City of Heroes probably longer than any other mmo I have played, but that game if you take off the rose colored glasses has a HUGE amount of issues. It was also my first mmo experience which is a great part of the reason I played it so long besides being a fan of super hero/villain game design. It's incredibly repetitive while leveling unless you get farmed in the architect missions which a majority of players do in which case getting your character to level 50 is trivially easy. Once level 50 you pretty much just raid. The pvp is terrible. It used to have solid pvp, but as far as I am concerned they butchered it which is why I stopped playing the game as well as many others several years ago.
Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order.
Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!
Can you name me just one themepark MMO that does have a replay value? Some people ask what the difference is between a themepark and a sandbox; well, you have one thing right there, no replay value for themeparks, pretty much endless replay value for sandbox.
I could say any themepark game has replay value, and the answer is entirely subjective.
For example: My wife loves WoW. She doesn't pvp or do any kind of end game. She rolls alts. She has been playing for years and has alts spread accross all kinds of servers. I don't even know how many she has. If I had to guess I would say she has 30 - 40 alts, many of them level capped.
There are people out there that play mmos like this. To them, any game has replay value.
I was asking the question in the context of the OP's post. His post was that all the characters do the same quests so no replay value; in that context all themepark MMO's are the same which was my point.
Well,every game in logic is different, maybe the same in Some mechanical senses, but every game is different, either it be the story, characters,context ect ect,..we really need to stop analizing games and get back to playing them.
If people are not going to buy or cancle their preorders based of heresay, ya know what? Let me, more for us and more people will be able to get in on launch day.
Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order.
Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!
Can you name me just one themepark MMO that does have a replay value? Some people ask what the difference is between a themepark and a sandbox; well, you have one thing right there, no replay value for themeparks, pretty much endless replay value for sandbox.
I could say any themepark game has replay value, and the answer is entirely subjective.
For example: My wife loves WoW. She doesn't pvp or do any kind of end game. She rolls alts. She has been playing for years and has alts spread accross all kinds of servers. I don't even know how many she has. If I had to guess I would say she has 30 - 40 alts, many of them level capped.
There are people out there that play mmos like this. To them, any game has replay value.
I was asking the question in the context of the OP's post. His post was that all the characters do the same quests so no replay value; in that context all themepark MMO's are the same which was my point.
Ok good for you, but my point is that different people can find replayabilty in different things. My wife would never ever ever touch a sandbox game, but she finds WoW (the themepark of all themeparks) to be extremely replayable.
You said to name one themepark that has replayability. I did that. I can't think of a better example of replayabilty than someone who is willing to roll 30 alts in the same game, which means she has played all of the classes multiple times. She really, genuinely, enjoys the crap out of the leveling process in wow (for some reason that I cannot determine).
LOL People that compare a Unreleased game ( mmo ) to a seven year old mmo and say it has more replay value are completely Out to lunch and should stay AWAY from mmorpgs in general.
A mmo is like a fine wine, it gets better and better over time, and since those games like Vangaurd , everquest , Both of which I have played alot of and many years dedicated to EQ , if they are sooooo good and replay value is Sooo high, how come the servers of those games are basicly dead? On top of that, if WoW's replay value was also high, how come they are loosing more subscribers in a month then they can get in a year?
Having played every beta this game has to offer and getting Over level 26 as a jedi Guardian,Sith Asassin, bounty hunter ect, I can say that there IS replay value in this game. Play it for what it is, and every MMO will have it's form of "grind",your lucky you did'nt play Everquest back in the day LOL , you would have rage quite.
You could date back to the 'vanilla' stages of those games I listed and they still have more replay value than ToR.
Seeing how some of those games are about 13 years old,theyre replayability has been used up for most,but the fact that theyre still going should tell you something in itself.Ive played EQ upon release and still play today,as with Vanguard.
I'll just do a quick comparison of content between this and a couple of other games I've played to max level, haven't played SWTOR to max but I've researched content.
Starter zones: SWTOR: Four starter worlds with two classes on each, two on Imperial Side and Two on Republic side with eight distinct stories and shared world stories Rift: Two starter zones, one on each faction side, two distinct stories AoC: One starter zone with small changes of story for each archetype
Out of newby zone: SWTOR: Two faction capitals, eight distinct stories, two shared world stories Rift: Two faction zones, two distinct stories AoC: Four zones, four distinct stories
Further in and until endgame: SWTOR: One set of zones, based on level, with one shared story, eight distinct class stories Rift: One set of zones, based on level, one story AoC: One set of zones, based on level, one story
SWTOR doesn't do too badly on the longevity front compared with those two examples.
Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order.
Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!
Wow,
You playe'd 2 WHOLE beta weekends ? you must know what your talking about.
People keep responding to my posts with these comments about having the "new car smell" syndrome. I don't know how much clearer about this I can be, but I have played 12 characters in this beta because of wipes. I have been playing for six month.
The "new car smell" wore off for me 5 months ago, as it did for many thousands of other beta testers that have been in the general testing program.
I have played this game extensively. I know the positives and the negatives, you don't have to tell me about the game because I probably know more about it than you do.
I'll stick to my own opinions of the game, thanks for offering your advice though.
Edit: forgot, I rolled a new Sith Warrior today to play around on the last day of beta because my server has a queue.. That makes 13.
And you miss the fact I wasn't ever reffering to you with the starry eyed affect, that was in reference to the general masses. My reference to you was that just because you enjoy repeating the same area and side quests on every toon for that faction doesn't mean everyone does.
Such idiots really i dotn care if this gets me banned but anyone saying tor has no replayability is the biggest idiots alive
its just fact
The class stories are all unique , If u play emprie one and republic one character u never see the same quest or story arc at all .
The class stories are worht it more then anything. I have played wow for 6 yrs i know tons of players in wow that have alts guess how many times those players millions on millions of them ran the same area over and over and over?
Id say 90 pct of the tiem they wre redoing the same areas over and over and they ha dno issue with it and there was nothign new or unique it was all the same so to say tor has none of that replayability after all the alts wow got is the dumbest stupidest thing ive ever heard.
Tor has faults, /character creator and a few others like space but replayability isnt one of them.
People are throwing out this whole replayability way too much while still being starry eyed from the newness of the MMO or just quite simple hyping for this game blindly. Numerous people in Beta have already stated what some are critisizing here about replayability, and these are real testers not you weekend wonder testers, and how too much is there mirroring quests and linear lvling.
You're underestimating the number of BioWare fans who play through every single BioWare game 3+ times, despite the fact that doing so involves repeating 100% of the quests.
I would still think they would be the minority, like all these that are harping about each classes replayability soely on class quests. The majority in SWTOR will be your typrical WoW player I would wager as it's the new flashy hyped game and SWTOR will be the new MMO childs play pen.
You are telling me that there aren't "1600 hours of unique story content AND world quests" ?
I love the game, but doing 95% of the same quests for each alt is a deal breaker.
I could have played the game for years if it had WOW replayability, or at least a couple of planets/zones to choose where to lvl up.
But you can't...
Please Bioware, Ilium can't suck, PLEASE.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Low replay value, compared to what? You didn't give us the standard you are judging against. It has substantially more replay value than any other BioWare game that I can think of. It also has substantially more replay value than any other MMO I can think of. So what is your yardstick?
What a horribly fallacious "challenge" to pose...
No "standard" is required to decide if something is satisfactory to someone or not. Nor is there any need to have something to compare it to.
The replayability of the game - along with any other aspect of it - can be judged on its own merits.
Saying you don't like something doesn't require being able to point to something "better".... although I know that's a favored "trap" some around here like to set. Folks love to play the whole "Name one game that does "blah blah" better..." routine around here.
Your challenge would be like someone saying "McDonald's has horrible burgers", and you saying "compared to what? What's your standard?"
Were I the person you were asking that, my answer would be "Compared to nothing. I just don't like their burgers".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Really good replay value almost never comes from "content", especially in an themepark MMO. COH destroys most other MMOs in replayability and its not because of content. Most quests generally start looking the same in a thempark game as they blur one into the other. Some few stand out but mostly the same. Doing exactly the same quest over and over just makes it painfully obvious.
Anyone who believed that SWTOR was gonna have some magically high replay value simply fooled themselves.
I knew right from the get go that each class was not going to have hugely different play experiences. Why? Because to accomplish that the amount of instancing involed would have made this game with almost no shared world.
The whole thing was bunk from the beginning. Bioware was happy to let people believe too. That is part of smart marketting you let people lie to themselves you so you aren't caught lying to them.
Low replay value, compared to what? You didn't give us the standard you are judging against. It has substantially more replay value than any other BioWare game that I can think of. It also has substantially more replay value than any other MMO I can think of. So what is your yardstick?
What a horribly fallacious "challenge" to pose...
No "standard" is required to decide if something is satisfactory to someone or not. Nor is there any need to have something to compare it to.
The replayability of the game - along with any other aspect of it - can be judged on its own merits.
Saying you don't like something doesn't require being able to point to something "better".... although I know that's a favored "trap" some around here like to set. Folks love to play the whole "Name one game that does "blah blah" better..." routine around here.
Your challenge would be like someone saying "McDonald's has horrible burgers", and you saying "compared to what? What's your standard?"
Were I the person you were asking that, my answer would be "Compared to nothing. I just don't like their burgers".
Yes its a dumb challenge.
But its also an extremely easy challenge to meet. In COH people routinely play 10,20 or more different alts. All of whom have different power sets.
The fact of the matter is SWTOR will never ever be as replayable as COH. And that is not by a little, its by an entire order of magnitude. Not only will msot people not be inclined to make one of each "class" on each faction. Even if they did they would still be behind COH's average by 50%.
I guarantee you that the average amount of alts level to say 25+% of max level of a SWTOR player versus a COH player will be 1:10.
Originally posted by EvilGeek I'll just do a quick comparison of content between this and a couple of other games I've played to max level, haven't played SWTOR to max but I've researched content. Starter zones: SWTOR: Four starter worlds with two classes on each, two on Imperial Side and Two on Republic side with eight distinct stories and shared world stories Rift: Two starter zones, one on each faction side, two distinct stories AoC: One starter zone with small changes of story for each archetype Out of newby zone: SWTOR: Two faction capitals, eight distinct stories, two shared world stories Rift: Two faction zones, two distinct stories AoC: Four zones, four distinct storiesFurther in and until endgame: SWTOR: One set of zones, based on level, with one shared story, eight distinct class stories Rift: One set of zones, based on level, one story AoC: One set of zones, based on level, one storySWTOR doesn't do too badly on the longevity front compared with those two examples.
I'm fairly certain that none of the people here giving "honest" opinions about TOR's 'shortcomings' are going to touch your post with a ten foot pole.
Unless they give snippy little comments, I can't see how they rebut any of this.
Originally posted by EvilGeek I'll just do a quick comparison of content between this and a couple of other games I've played to max level, haven't played SWTOR to max but I've researched content. Starter zones: SWTOR: Four starter worlds with two classes on each, two on Imperial Side and Two on Republic side with eight distinct stories and shared world stories Rift: Two starter zones, one on each faction side, two distinct stories AoC: One starter zone with small changes of story for each archetype Out of newby zone: SWTOR: Two faction capitals, eight distinct stories, two shared world stories Rift: Two faction zones, two distinct stories AoC: Four zones, four distinct storiesFurther in and until endgame: SWTOR: One set of zones, based on level, with one shared story, eight distinct class stories Rift: One set of zones, based on level, one story AoC: One set of zones, based on level, one storySWTOR doesn't do too badly on the longevity front compared with those two examples.
I'm fairly certain that none of the people here giving "honest" opinions about TOR's 'shortcomings' are going to touch your post with a ten foot pole.
Unless they give snippy little comments, I can't see how they rebut any of this.
But AoC is f2p now and Rift is going that way in a couple of months, 2 turds have less replayabilty than SWTOR, big deal...
Lineage 2 had areas to choose where to lvl up
So does WOW, Everquest, Everquest 2, and other themepark games.
Even FFXIV lol...
Seriously, in SWTOR you will be doing 95% of the same quest for each alt, how is that good replayability?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
I haven't read every comment here but I don't think that there is such a thing as 'replay' value in most MMOs. This isn't a single player game where you pay once and you are done paying and there may be further value in playing the game again in a different style. In subscription MMOs, you are continuously paying. In TOR, you will have paid for the game again in 3 months time if you continue to sub. You are also free to quit any time and stop paying. The only MMO that I can think of that might have replay value is Guild Wars I and II where you pay once and thats it.
The real question is this- does TOR have staying power to keep people subscribed. I played on one beta weekend and there seems to be at least enough to do to cover a large single player game.
Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order.
Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!
From my beta experience, I agree with you but, most of these fans wont realize this sad truth until they do it a couple times. The choices your allowed to make have a minimal impact at most, and nothing more than an illusion of choice. But you and I will be flammed for this, but it doesnt matter because they will find this out the hard way.
I've done it 12 times, and I can't wait until launch to do it again and make my character mine. Sorry but that is just pure speculation and you have no evidence to back it up.
Your opinion is not my opinion. Many others agree with me.
I've done it twice now on the same faction and I'm on the verge of cancelling my preorder.. I know it's my opinion, but it's kind of ironic that I might pass on swtor because of uncommonly low replay value and nothing else:P
If you compare it to WOW , do you realize when WOW release you kill the same mobs as Trolls all classes and Orcs? So if your saying that this low replay value then so is WOW.
If your whining about this, which is false I have been in beta year and played every class and Dark and light, I have seen many different storys and mobs, some stuff yes , but the end game is fun, and the higher end stuff is different so, if you cancel base on this, well good luck to you, and enjoy WOW .
Originally posted by spaceport Originally posted by popinjayOriginally posted by EvilGeek I'll just do a quick comparison of content between this and a couple of other games I've played to max level, haven't played SWTOR to max but I've researched content. Starter zones: SWTOR: Four starter worlds with two classes on each, two on Imperial Side and Two on Republic side with eight distinct stories and shared world stories Rift: Two starter zones, one on each faction side, two distinct stories AoC: One starter zone with small changes of story for each archetype Out of newby zone: SWTOR: Two faction capitals, eight distinct stories, two shared world stories Rift: Two faction zones, two distinct stories AoC: Four zones, four distinct storiesFurther in and until endgame: SWTOR: One set of zones, based on level, with one shared story, eight distinct class stories Rift: One set of zones, based on level, one story AoC: One set of zones, based on level, one storySWTOR doesn't do too badly on the longevity front compared with those two examples.
I'm fairly certain that none of the people here giving "honest" opinions about TOR's 'shortcomings' are going to touch your post with a ten foot pole.
Unless they give snippy little comments, I can't see how they rebut any of this.
But AoC is f2p now and Rift is going that way in a couple of months, 2 turds have less replayabilty than SWTOR, big deal...
Lineage 2 had areas to choose where to lvl up Lineage 2 was a grind. You didn't have any good story, just "Let's go over here, camp and kill the same mobs for six hours." Many people don't find that fun at all.
Oh by the way:
On November 30, 2011 Lineage II adopted a free-to-play model in 'Lineage II: Goddess of Destruction', with all game content being free save for "purchasable in-game store items and packs".[4]
Originally posted by spaceport Originally posted by popinjayOriginally posted by EvilGeek I'll just do a quick comparison of content between this and a couple of other games I've played to max level, haven't played SWTOR to max but I've researched content. Starter zones: SWTOR: Four starter worlds with two classes on each, two on Imperial Side and Two on Republic side with eight distinct stories and shared world stories Rift: Two starter zones, one on each faction side, two distinct stories AoC: One starter zone with small changes of story for each archetype Out of newby zone: SWTOR: Two faction capitals, eight distinct stories, two shared world stories Rift: Two faction zones, two distinct stories AoC: Four zones, four distinct storiesFurther in and until endgame: SWTOR: One set of zones, based on level, with one shared story, eight distinct class stories Rift: One set of zones, based on level, one story AoC: One set of zones, based on level, one storySWTOR doesn't do too badly on the longevity front compared with those two examples.
I'm fairly certain that none of the people here giving "honest" opinions about TOR's 'shortcomings' are going to touch your post with a ten foot pole.
Unless they give snippy little comments, I can't see how they rebut any of this.
But AoC is f2p now and Rift is going that way in a couple of months, 2 turds have less replayabilty than SWTOR, big deal...
Lineage 2 had areas to choose where to lvl up Lineage 2 was a grind. You didn't have any good story, just "Let's go over here, camp and kill the same mobs for six hours." Many people don't find that fun at all.
Oh by the way:
On November 30, 2011 Lineage II adopted a free-to-play model in 'Lineage II: Goddess of Destruction', with all game content being free save for "purchasable in-game store items and packs".[4]
AoC is f2p because it's a turd, L2 is only free to play in the west, and because it's old and NCwest sucks.
Again, there are many themepark mmorpgs released since 2003 who have areas to choose where to lvl up and quest.
SWTOR doesn't, so it's normal to say that SWTOR lacks alt replayability.
It's funny because SWTOR has "17 planets!!!" (zones lol), yet you can't choose where to lvl up...
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
People keep responding to my posts with these comments about having the "new car smell" syndrome. I don't know how much clearer about this I can be, but I have played 12 characters in this beta because of wipes. I have been playing for six month.
The "new car smell" wore off for me 5 months ago, as it did for many thousands of other beta testers that have been in the general testing program.
I have played this game extensively. I know the positives and the negatives, you don't have to tell me about the game because I probably know more about it than you do.
I'll stick to my own opinions of the game, thanks for offering your advice though.
Edit: forgot, I rolled a new Sith Warrior today to play around on the last day of beta because my server has a queue.. That makes 13.
Im glad you have done it 13 times now. You think the average MMO'er is even going come close to that number? Especially in a genre dominated by players that rushs to cap? Not even considering how fickle the MMO player base is these days. Ya I am sure theres going to be a nich hardcore group thats going to want to do every storyline. For the most part its going to be another game thats prime is 60-90 days. Just like rift, and every other mmo thats released over the past 5 years.
This issue will come up again and again over the next few months, because this game is over hyped on the replay value. Like I said before yes the replay value is better than your average mmo, but its not even close to what bioware has hyped it to be.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Ok, absolutely no trolling, but this is what has surprised me after having played two beta weekends in a row. SWTOR has a low replay value. From everything I read before playing I thought the exact OPPOSITE would be true. That swtor's greatness lay in the funness of alt:ing. The first 10 levels are generally really fun, since they are mainly focused on your personal story. But as you enter the areas shared by all classes it really becomes evident that all classes follow the exact same route on the area maps. Sure, your class quests give you different superficial reasons to go where you're going. But no matter what class you play you'll end up in the exact same quest hubs in the exact same order.
Where did this "great replay value" idea come from in the first place? Granted, I can see it being fun playing one Republic char and the level up a Empire one. But after that I sure won't create another alt in swtor!
I had the same thing with WoW, I made a human paladin then a human priest, all the leveling was the same, same quests same places, so I tired a horde orc warrior and an orc shamen I think it was, got to 15 on all of them then quit as it was all the same, same quests same hubs, no replay value, can't work out why people play it.....
Im glad you have done it 13 times now. You think the average MMO'er is even going come close to that number? Especially in a genre dominated by players that rushs to cap? Not even considering how fickle the MMO player base is these days. Ya I am sure theres going to be a nich hardcore group thats going to want to do every storyline. For the most part its going to be another game thats prime is 60-90 days. Just like rift, and every other mmo thats released over the past 5 years.
This issue will come up again and again over the next few months, because this game is over hyped on the replay value. Like I said before yes the replay value is better than your average mmo, but its not even close to what bioware has hyped it to be.
I love when people pass off their opinions as stone cold facts and prophecies. I am always so grateful that they can set the unwashed masses straight about the reality of a game and give us mouth-breathers fair warning. I salute you, Sir. Thank God you were here to tell me what I'm going to find boring three months from now. If not, I may have actually just gone right on enjoying the game, and what a tragedy that would have been.
AoC is f2p because it's a turd, L2 is only free to play in the west, and because it's old and NCwest sucks.
Again, there are many themepark mmorpgs released since 2003 who have areas to choose where to lvl up and quest.
SWTOR doesn't, so it's normal to say that SWTOR lacks alt replayability.
Lineage 2 is FTP. AoC is FTP. There is no difference why either is that way other than.. they both losing customers. Period. So if one is a turd, the other is as well. Even Aion isn't FTP in the West yet so your point isn't valid.
Choosing where to level up isn't all that it seems. Many of those areas people will get bored with one time through. You could have a choice of eating a ketchup pack or a mustard pack, but bottom line is.. it's still condiments not worth eating.
There is a reason many games from 2003 are either FTP or headed that way. The "choices" they offer don't amount to crap after a time. That's why ToR will have more replayability, because of the story elements of the character's development, not WHERE they do it lol.
Ask yourself: do you care more about your toons or what the ground looks like? If you say "ground", you've been playing too many bad mmos that were far too easy to leave because you never cared about your toon.
It has just as many zones as other games and more than most as far as storylines. People who just want to speed level, that doesn't matter and they will continue to play the crappy FTP versions.
Comments
I played the game during the open beta weekend and leveld a sith juggernaut to 16 and a concealment operative to 13.
Despite both classes leveling on different starter planets neither felt even close to being the same both from a gameplay stand point and class story differences.
I'm willing to bet I could level these 2 classes mirror's on the republic side(jedi sentinel and smuggler) and have a different enough experience thanks to different starter planets and class stories to make re-rolling alts worthwhile.
The fact this game has CLASS story content, world arcs and full voice over pretty much makes it better from a immersion and replay perspective over any other mmo ever made.
I played WoW for a little under a year and a half and logged a little over 100 days played on my 85 rogue=2400 hours and I don't know a damn thing about the story. Why? The quest text was so damn boring after while I couldn't be bothered to read it. I will give the game alot of credit because of it's great art design and vibrant colors as well as genuinely enjoying the play mechanics of the class I chose, but replay value was utter crap.
I wanted to play an alt mage and I never did because I just couldn't deal with leveling up an alt and all the grinding throughout the game. I hear the leveling process is alot faster now than it was during WotlK, but meh.
Vanguard is a game that had massive potential, but was plagued with bugs and poor performance at launch. That said I don't rememeber any of the story of that game either. I do remember it's landscape as being awesome though and having some nice classes.
I played City of Heroes probably longer than any other mmo I have played, but that game if you take off the rose colored glasses has a HUGE amount of issues. It was also my first mmo experience which is a great part of the reason I played it so long besides being a fan of super hero/villain game design. It's incredibly repetitive while leveling unless you get farmed in the architect missions which a majority of players do in which case getting your character to level 50 is trivially easy. Once level 50 you pretty much just raid. The pvp is terrible. It used to have solid pvp, but as far as I am concerned they butchered it which is why I stopped playing the game as well as many others several years ago.
Well,every game in logic is different, maybe the same in Some mechanical senses, but every game is different, either it be the story, characters,context ect ect,..we really need to stop analizing games and get back to playing them.
If people are not going to buy or cancle their preorders based of heresay, ya know what? Let me, more for us and more people will be able to get in on launch day.
Ok good for you, but my point is that different people can find replayabilty in different things. My wife would never ever ever touch a sandbox game, but she finds WoW (the themepark of all themeparks) to be extremely replayable.
You said to name one themepark that has replayability. I did that. I can't think of a better example of replayabilty than someone who is willing to roll 30 alts in the same game, which means she has played all of the classes multiple times. She really, genuinely, enjoys the crap out of the leveling process in wow (for some reason that I cannot determine).
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
11 more days.
Then I can kiss MMORPG.com goodbye for at least another six months due to playing TOR.
"TO MICHAEL!"
You could date back to the 'vanilla' stages of those games I listed and they still have more replay value than ToR.
Seeing how some of those games are about 13 years old,theyre replayability has been used up for most,but the fact that theyre still going should tell you something in itself.Ive played EQ upon release and still play today,as with Vanguard.
The same can be said for WoW
I'll just do a quick comparison of content between this and a couple of other games I've played to max level, haven't played SWTOR to max but I've researched content.
Starter zones:
SWTOR: Four starter worlds with two classes on each, two on Imperial Side and Two on Republic side with eight distinct stories and shared world stories
Rift: Two starter zones, one on each faction side, two distinct stories
AoC: One starter zone with small changes of story for each archetype
Out of newby zone:
SWTOR: Two faction capitals, eight distinct stories, two shared world stories
Rift: Two faction zones, two distinct stories
AoC: Four zones, four distinct stories
Further in and until endgame:
SWTOR: One set of zones, based on level, with one shared story, eight distinct class stories
Rift: One set of zones, based on level, one story
AoC: One set of zones, based on level, one story
SWTOR doesn't do too badly on the longevity front compared with those two examples.
Wow,
You playe'd 2 WHOLE beta weekends ? you must know what your talking about.
I agree that the replay value isn't that great, however, it does well at keeping you playing on just a single character.
And you miss the fact I wasn't ever reffering to you with the starry eyed affect, that was in reference to the general masses. My reference to you was that just because you enjoy repeating the same area and side quests on every toon for that faction doesn't mean everyone does.
Such idiots really i dotn care if this gets me banned but anyone saying tor has no replayability is the biggest idiots alive
its just fact
The class stories are all unique , If u play emprie one and republic one character u never see the same quest or story arc at all .
The class stories are worht it more then anything. I have played wow for 6 yrs i know tons of players in wow that have alts guess how many times those players millions on millions of them ran the same area over and over and over?
Id say 90 pct of the tiem they wre redoing the same areas over and over and they ha dno issue with it and there was nothign new or unique it was all the same so to say tor has none of that replayability after all the alts wow got is the dumbest stupidest thing ive ever heard.
Tor has faults, /character creator and a few others like space but replayability isnt one of them.
I would still think they would be the minority, like all these that are harping about each classes replayability soely on class quests. The majority in SWTOR will be your typrical WoW player I would wager as it's the new flashy hyped game and SWTOR will be the new MMO childs play pen.
I love the game, but doing 95% of the same quests for each alt is a deal breaker.
I could have played the game for years if it had WOW replayability, or at least a couple of planets/zones to choose where to lvl up.
But you can't...
Please Bioware, Ilium can't suck, PLEASE."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
What a horribly fallacious "challenge" to pose...
No "standard" is required to decide if something is satisfactory to someone or not. Nor is there any need to have something to compare it to.
The replayability of the game - along with any other aspect of it - can be judged on its own merits.
Saying you don't like something doesn't require being able to point to something "better".... although I know that's a favored "trap" some around here like to set. Folks love to play the whole "Name one game that does "blah blah" better..." routine around here.
Your challenge would be like someone saying "McDonald's has horrible burgers", and you saying "compared to what? What's your standard?"
Were I the person you were asking that, my answer would be "Compared to nothing. I just don't like their burgers".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Really good replay value almost never comes from "content", especially in an themepark MMO. COH destroys most other MMOs in replayability and its not because of content. Most quests generally start looking the same in a thempark game as they blur one into the other. Some few stand out but mostly the same. Doing exactly the same quest over and over just makes it painfully obvious.
Anyone who believed that SWTOR was gonna have some magically high replay value simply fooled themselves.
I knew right from the get go that each class was not going to have hugely different play experiences. Why? Because to accomplish that the amount of instancing involed would have made this game with almost no shared world.
The whole thing was bunk from the beginning. Bioware was happy to let people believe too. That is part of smart marketting you let people lie to themselves you so you aren't caught lying to them.
Yes its a dumb challenge.
But its also an extremely easy challenge to meet. In COH people routinely play 10,20 or more different alts. All of whom have different power sets.
The fact of the matter is SWTOR will never ever be as replayable as COH. And that is not by a little, its by an entire order of magnitude. Not only will msot people not be inclined to make one of each "class" on each faction. Even if they did they would still be behind COH's average by 50%.
I guarantee you that the average amount of alts level to say 25+% of max level of a SWTOR player versus a COH player will be 1:10.
I'm fairly certain that none of the people here giving "honest" opinions about TOR's 'shortcomings' are going to touch your post with a ten foot pole.
Unless they give snippy little comments, I can't see how they rebut any of this.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'm fairly certain that none of the people here giving "honest" opinions about TOR's 'shortcomings' are going to touch your post with a ten foot pole.
Unless they give snippy little comments, I can't see how they rebut any of this.
But AoC is f2p now and Rift is going that way in a couple of months, 2 turds have less replayabilty than SWTOR, big deal...
Lineage 2 had areas to choose where to lvl up
So does WOW, Everquest, Everquest 2, and other themepark games.
Even FFXIV lol...
Seriously, in SWTOR you will be doing 95% of the same quest for each alt, how is that good replayability?"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
I haven't read every comment here but I don't think that there is such a thing as 'replay' value in most MMOs. This isn't a single player game where you pay once and you are done paying and there may be further value in playing the game again in a different style. In subscription MMOs, you are continuously paying. In TOR, you will have paid for the game again in 3 months time if you continue to sub. You are also free to quit any time and stop paying. The only MMO that I can think of that might have replay value is Guild Wars I and II where you pay once and thats it.
The real question is this- does TOR have staying power to keep people subscribed. I played on one beta weekend and there seems to be at least enough to do to cover a large single player game.
If you compare it to WOW , do you realize when WOW release you kill the same mobs as Trolls all classes and Orcs? So if your saying that this low replay value then so is WOW.
If your whining about this, which is false I have been in beta year and played every class and Dark and light, I have seen many different storys and mobs, some stuff yes , but the end game is fun, and the higher end stuff is different so, if you cancel base on this, well good luck to you, and enjoy WOW .
One less whiner.
I'm fairly certain that none of the people here giving "honest" opinions about TOR's 'shortcomings' are going to touch your post with a ten foot pole.
Unless they give snippy little comments, I can't see how they rebut any of this.
But AoC is f2p now and Rift is going that way in a couple of months, 2 turds have less replayabilty than SWTOR, big deal...
Lineage 2 had areas to choose where to lvl up
Lineage 2 was a grind. You didn't have any good story, just "Let's go over here, camp and kill the same mobs for six hours." Many people don't find that fun at all.
Oh by the way:
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'm fairly certain that none of the people here giving "honest" opinions about TOR's 'shortcomings' are going to touch your post with a ten foot pole.
Unless they give snippy little comments, I can't see how they rebut any of this.
But AoC is f2p now and Rift is going that way in a couple of months, 2 turds have less replayabilty than SWTOR, big deal...
Lineage 2 had areas to choose where to lvl up
Lineage 2 was a grind. You didn't have any good story, just "Let's go over here, camp and kill the same mobs for six hours." Many people don't find that fun at all.
Oh by the way:
AoC is f2p because it's a turd, L2 is only free to play in the west, and because it's old and NCwest sucks.
Again, there are many themepark mmorpgs released since 2003 who have areas to choose where to lvl up and quest.
SWTOR doesn't, so it's normal to say that SWTOR lacks alt replayability.
It's funny because SWTOR has "17 planets!!!" (zones lol), yet you can't choose where to lvl up..."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Im glad you have done it 13 times now. You think the average MMO'er is even going come close to that number? Especially in a genre dominated by players that rushs to cap? Not even considering how fickle the MMO player base is these days. Ya I am sure theres going to be a nich hardcore group thats going to want to do every storyline. For the most part its going to be another game thats prime is 60-90 days. Just like rift, and every other mmo thats released over the past 5 years.
This issue will come up again and again over the next few months, because this game is over hyped on the replay value. Like I said before yes the replay value is better than your average mmo, but its not even close to what bioware has hyped it to be.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I had the same thing with WoW, I made a human paladin then a human priest, all the leveling was the same, same quests same places, so I tired a horde orc warrior and an orc shamen I think it was, got to 15 on all of them then quit as it was all the same, same quests same hubs, no replay value, can't work out why people play it.....
I love when people pass off their opinions as stone cold facts and prophecies. I am always so grateful that they can set the unwashed masses straight about the reality of a game and give us mouth-breathers fair warning. I salute you, Sir. Thank God you were here to tell me what I'm going to find boring three months from now. If not, I may have actually just gone right on enjoying the game, and what a tragedy that would have been.
Lineage 2 is FTP. AoC is FTP. There is no difference why either is that way other than.. they both losing customers. Period. So if one is a turd, the other is as well. Even Aion isn't FTP in the West yet so your point isn't valid.
Choosing where to level up isn't all that it seems. Many of those areas people will get bored with one time through. You could have a choice of eating a ketchup pack or a mustard pack, but bottom line is.. it's still condiments not worth eating.
There is a reason many games from 2003 are either FTP or headed that way. The "choices" they offer don't amount to crap after a time. That's why ToR will have more replayability, because of the story elements of the character's development, not WHERE they do it lol.
Ask yourself: do you care more about your toons or what the ground looks like? If you say "ground", you've been playing too many bad mmos that were far too easy to leave because you never cared about your toon.
It has just as many zones as other games and more than most as far as storylines. People who just want to speed level, that doesn't matter and they will continue to play the crappy FTP versions.
"TO MICHAEL!"