DC Universe was a flop, Free to Play in record time. And unless I'm mistaken, TERA is not out anywhere but Korea right...GW2 isnt even out yet? Come on guys, if we are going to talk this combat mechanic up, and say its required, at least come up with some example thats proven it to be exactly that. If the dodge mechanic was as important in quality PvP and the rest as irrelivant as you make it out to be, then why exactly did DC land smack dab on its face as fast as it did? Shouldnt it have made 'all the difference'? Hey, I'm on your side here, I think button mashing and auto target lock are total BS when it comes to PvP. What I'm not sold on is that a single mechanic, as simple as dodge could make or break a game by itself when it comes to PvP. So sell me on it.
go play vindictus.. combat in that game is a ton more fun and plays more like an action game.. too bad the rest of the game is meh..
Ok, now I haven't actually played TERA, but my understanding is its combat is more about positional than actual dodge mechanics, is this correct? Each mob has a specific hitbox based on its model and the attacks are arc/facing in nature. I would be willing to agree that a combat mechanism with position attacks and arc directivety would be a serious plus to PvP combat. Maybe I'm seeing the idea differently than you guys, how exactly are you concidering a dodge a dodge? Reactive movement button hits when you sense an incoming attack, a built in mechanic to the game design itself, or actual position you are in during the combat in relation to your adversary? The latter I see as positional combat, not a dodge mechanic.
Also, is Blade & Soul out yet? Looks like we have several games in the works which are trying to bring more action orriented combat into the genre. Existing games though, not so much right?
Oh and Vindictus had great combat I will give you that, the instance hub game play and crappy item mall format destroy the graphics and combat though. Which is one of my points here as well, I dont believe one or the other is enough to make a great game, it takes them all IMO.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Ok, now I haven't actually played TERA, but my understanding is its combat is more about positional than actual dodge mechanics, is this correct? Each mob has a specific hitbox based on its model and the attacks are arc/facing in nature. I would be willing to agree that a combat mechanism with position attacks and arc directivety would be a serious plus to PvP combat. Maybe I'm seeing the idea differently than you guys, how exactly are you concidering a dodge a dodge? Reactive movement button hits when you sense an incoming attack, a built in mechanic to the game design itself, or actual position you are in during the combat in relation to your adversary? The latter I see as positional combat, not a dodge mechanic.
Also, is Blade & Soul out yet? Looks like we have several games in the works which are trying to bring more action orriented combat into the genre. Existing games though, not so much right?
people already gave examples of several games released with action pvp or you just not reading the other posts also dragon nest is another pretty popular F2P one that offers the action oriented combat
Ok, now I haven't actually played TERA, but my understanding is its combat is more about positional than actual dodge mechanics, is this correct? Each mob has a specific hitbox based on its model and the attacks are arc/facing in nature. I would be willing to agree that a combat mechanism with position attacks and arc directivety would be a serious plus to PvP combat. Maybe I'm seeing the idea differently than you guys, how exactly are you concidering a dodge a dodge? Reactive movement button hits when you sense an incoming attack, a built in mechanic to the game design itself, or actual position you are in during the combat in relation to your adversary? The latter I see as positional combat, not a dodge mechanic.
Also, is Blade & Soul out yet? Looks like we have several games in the works which are trying to bring more action orriented combat into the genre. Existing games though, not so much right?
people already gave examples of several games released with action pvp or you just not reading the other posts also dragon nest is another pretty popular F2P one that offers the action oriented combat
I'm sorry, did I miss you mentioning a game different than Vindictus?? I addressed that in the rest of the post you quoted above here by the way.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Originally posted by StSynner Originally posted by Kaocan
And this is why I'm inquiring into this. I'm not saying dodge isn't something that shouldnt be in combat, Im trying to figure out why nobody uses it in thier MMORPGs which are out on the market now. I mean, if we are going to talk down this game because it doesn't have it, shouldnt we at least wonder why it isnt in any of the major AA MMORPG games currently out? And in that sense, shouldnt we be talking the ALL down for not having it instead of just this one??
I guess for the same reason a lot of MMO's still use the tired trinity system or the "go here and do this" questing mode... cause it's "safe". And investors LOOOOOVE safe games. People log into a game with a new combat technique that theyre not used to and you get general chat filled with "OMG this game suxxors" or "so and so is hacking!!" simply because they havent learned how to break their old "stand in one spot and push 1-2-3-4-1" routine. wanna guess how many times i was called an exploiter simply for dodging and rolling in DCUO? lets just say that launch day and a few days after were filled with the tears of n00bs that failed to comprehend that if you dodge you dont take damage...
Do you know why investors tend to like something safe?
Because they realize it stands a much better chance of making money.
Ok, now I haven't actually played TERA, but my understanding is its combat is more about positional than actual dodge mechanics, is this correct? Each mob has a specific hitbox based on its model and the attacks are arc/facing in nature. I would be willing to agree that a combat mechanism with position attacks and arc directivety would be a serious plus to PvP combat. Maybe I'm seeing the idea differently than you guys, how exactly are you concidering a dodge a dodge? Reactive movement button hits when you sense an incoming attack, a built in mechanic to the game design itself, or actual position you are in during the combat in relation to your adversary? The latter I see as positional combat, not a dodge mechanic.
Also, is Blade & Soul out yet? Looks like we have several games in the works which are trying to bring more action orriented combat into the genre. Existing games though, not so much right?
people already gave examples of several games released with action pvp or you just not reading the other posts also dragon nest is another pretty popular F2P one that offers the action oriented combat
I'm sorry, did I miss you mentioning a game different than Vindictus?? I addressed that in the rest of the post you quoted above here by the way.
I didn't but others have and just because the games were failures wasn't because of the combat systems many other factors went into why those games failed.. actually if you look at games like DC Uniiverse the thing most people say they enjoyed WAS the combat just most everything else not so much.. same with vindictus. People play games like dragon nest for the combat but the rest of those games are lacking.. Just wish more AAA companies would start putting more effort into there combat and from the looks of the new games coming looks like most are
Ok, now I haven't actually played TERA, but my understanding is its combat is more about positional than actual dodge mechanics, is this correct? Each mob has a specific hitbox based on its model and the attacks are arc/facing in nature. I would be willing to agree that a combat mechanism with position attacks and arc directivety would be a serious plus to PvP combat. Maybe I'm seeing the idea differently than you guys, how exactly are you concidering a dodge a dodge? Reactive movement button hits when you sense an incoming attack, a built in mechanic to the game design itself, or actual position you are in during the combat in relation to your adversary? The latter I see as positional combat, not a dodge mechanic.
Also, is Blade & Soul out yet? Looks like we have several games in the works which are trying to bring more action orriented combat into the genre. Existing games though, not so much right?
Oh and Vindictus had great combat I will give you that, the instance hub game play and crappy item mall format destroy the graphics and combat though. Which is one of my points here as well, I dont believe one or the other is enough to make a great game, it takes them all IMO.
TERA is all about position and movement and getting the hell out of the way.
No, B&S is not out yet.
and yes... it would appear that TOR will the last of the breed of "last gen" MMO's. some called it the tabtargeting MMO's "swan song" ... i can totally agree with that.
Its IMPOSSIBLE to have balance in any game with different classes, unless all classes have the same skills, health, force, gear, internet ping etc.
So the prob is all about the player behind the char that has to learn to play.
depends what you mean by balance.. if you mean have every single class has equal chance against every other class then id agree its impossible but if you use something like the rock paper scissors its not as difficult.. but either way no matter how balanced people will complain.. although sometimes theres glaring balance issues ala Rift were you have a FOTM class every patch
Its IMPOSSIBLE to have balance in any game with different classes, unless all classes have the same skills, health, force, gear, internet ping etc.
So the prob is all about the player behind the char that has to learn to play.
Balance isn't binary thing, and while it's impossible to have perfect balance, it's certainly possible to have decent levels of it. Moreover, without decent balance you can forget about bringing out the player from behind the class - skill won't help you if the game is set against you. Which means that decent balance is required to achieve fair PvP.
So no, L2P isn't good responce if it's possible to prove that one class has significant edge over another (not saying it's the case in SWTOR, haven't played it long enough).
My experience with PvP has been very "rock-paper-scissors-esque". On my seer I go after troopers but run from sith, on my sent I hunt everything but those nasty ops light me up if not paying attention, my trooper gets off a good amount of damage but gets destroyed if I let melee get close, and my Smug is JUST starting to come into his own so I have nothing concrete on him yet.
And how much does actual player skills factor into this? Or is it 99% about class choice, gear and levels?
Imho, more player skill than your average themepark pvp; you've got access to a ton of abilities suited for varying roles, even at lower levels, multiple class mechanics to take into account, etc. Also its pretty fast paced.
In WAR for instance, you'd typically use around 3-4 abilities constantly with some secondary ones occasionaly; in Swtor it's more like 8+ abilities which you'll use in pvp often and a whole range of occasional ones. On an operative at least. There's a lot of opportunity to improve and learn imo.
GREAT replies! I agree 100%! More skill than 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1
Sith Marauder and... the going is tough. i will say that Marauders/Sentinels have a long way to go before they are even remotely effective as damage dealers. They are the only classes that are PURE damage (no tank, no heal) and yet they are outdamaged by almost every other class. most of this comes from the fact that Ataru Form is complete garbage, and almost the entire carnage tree is dedicated to it, which makes that tree worthless. it does not trigger even half as often as it should, and the damage gain is just bogus. you get maybe 150 additional damage (at lvl 30) with all ataru form talents every 5-6 skills used. in a word... "pathetic"
rage tree is some sort of weird smash and run tree, designed completely around leaping into a gorup, triggering smash, and then running away.... as a talent tree it makes no sense at all. it combines movement impairing talents with damage reduction and AOE... it is a complete mess. best i can assume is it is a poor attempt at a tanking tree.
best damage a marauder/sentinel can put out is from bleeds (annihilation tree)... and bleeds just arent that great for PVP. you want pure burst damage in PVP, and for that BH and trooper reigns supreme. Im sure their raid effectiveness will be mediocre to good thanks to what looks to be decent sustained damage, but for now their PVP effectiveness is poor.
all of this isnt even mentioning the lore inconsistency with a "bleed spec" for someone with a lightsaber.... by the very nature of lightsabers being made from a laser... wounds inflicted by them would not bleed. at the very least, it should be called "burn" as that would atleast make SOME sense.
TOR PvP is basic... at BEST and there is absolutely nothing special about it in the slightest. It most certainly does not "rule". It's not really the "PvP" sp to speak but the combat system in general. I have seen more dynamic combat system in Super Mario Bros. than what is in TOR. You are either brand new at PvP or are a rabid Star Wars fanboi.
I am not a fan of SW, just to state that up front. What I am is curious on this statement you made. Can you please provide some further details on the dynamic combat system in Super Mario Bros. which you feel is more better than this game? Specifics would be appreciated.
ah... so you're new to PvP then.
To answer you question... In Super Mario Bros. you could dodge. In TOR you can not.
lol
LOL
What about interrupts in TOR? Can you use objects or walls or anything as cover?
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Just writing a bit about my Battleground pvp expiriences so far....will do that again when i reach 5+ levels higher
I have a lvl 21 operative with full lvl 20 pvp set bought with tokens. Its a melee class with rifle support.
Not satisfied with the current dmg output at all, did wiht my lvl 16 sorcerer for miles better...
Pvp expirience fighting a lvl 22 with medium armor:
Main melee attack from stealth - Backstab: 900-1000 dmg
Sencond melee attack with 6 sec cooldown: 600-700 dmg
Dot arrow: 225 per tick
The joke is that white rifle fire is 400-500.....
Lvl 26 sorcerer did absorb with his shield both melee attacks...
I did read the class gets a lot better but so far I feel gimped...my lvl 16 sorcerer with alone lightining channeling does 900 dmg per tick/second and is ranged ( ! ), without his additional shock attack which is 1600 around + dmg of 2 different dot skills.
Overall problem is that you meet more and more higher lvls around 30is and your own dmg is going down even more, aswell they just dish out dmg that high which you cant counter. Wonder why they did not do any level brackets.....
Opponents:
Lvl 28 shadow - 3000+ special attack hit
Lvl 30 shadow - 5000 special attack inclusive melee+shock, died withint his stun time.
I rank SWTOR PVP a notch above City of Heroes. That's how terrible it is. It is one of the worst MMO's for PVP I've ever played.
I'd even rank Warhammer Online ahead of it, since at least that had RvR.
A lot of the PVE in SWTOR is great. The PVP, however, is downright atrocious.
It is a PvE focused game, what did you expect?
Besides, Bioware have a lot more experience with PvE so of course they do that part better.
I assume that PvP will be changed as time passes, like it have in most other MMOs.
I suspected it would be as such, having played numerous Bioware titles.
I suppose I was somewhat taken in by their marketing schemes at shows like E3, but I know I should've known better. What gets me is that I would've enjoyed KOTOR 3 so much more than whatever this game is.
I don't really consider it to be an MMO. More like an RPG with friends. But I still would've preferred KOTOR 3, and I imagine I'm not alone in that sentiment. It's been two lackluster Bioware titles for me in a row. First DA2 and now this. Up until this year, I could say that I'd never played a bad Bioware game. To SWTOR's credit, it's not as bad as DA2.
There is still a possibility that they could focus on some PVP elements and make it worthwhile. At this moment, I see it completely salvageable. It just needs some work and a little love, and I think they could really elevate the title.
But if they leave it and focus on other elements, I imagine that it will lose a big chunk of their subscriber base. We'll see in 2-3 months if Bioware can answer the call. The PVPers are very fickle, but they are also very loyal. If Bioware shows them some love, I think the game has a real chance. If not, I imagine it will eventually wind up around the sub base of Aion.
That being said, I doubt that it will ever go F2P. Lucas will simply not allow it; he's far too greedy and short-sighted.
The biggest problem with Warfront PvP is the fact that there are no level brackets. Yes, people get scaled up, but a number of classes do not get extremely key abilities until higher levels and you don't get any expertise gear until much later on either.
Scaling is definitely much better than no scaling, but if you look at Guild Wars 2, they understand that while scaling for World vs. World does not make it fair, being more fair at least gives players who aren't at the cap the ability to contribute. However, they also understand that simple scaling is NOT fair for battleground/arena/(warfront) combat and thus fully level everyone there to the level cap, with full skills, builds and cap quality gear.
I don't bring up GW2 just to bring it up, but to point out that while TOR may have borrowed the concept of scaling for PvP from GW2, they misapplied it by using it in warfronts where character's skill and gear are limited by actual character level and no level brackets were utilized to counterbalance the remaining discrepencies. The scaling in no way removes the need for brackets!
If TOR were to combine their brand of level scaling, along with level brackets, they would have about as balanced a system one could have, assuming class balance in each bracket is acceptable. As is, it's just a lesson in frustration for many.
There are also design issues with all the maps, with the capture point map perhaps the most balanced, the ship access one being the most liikely to exhibit arbitrary unfairness and Huttball being the most unbalanced in favor of one faction over the other.
The level scaling was an important piece of the puzzle which could have led to amazing warfront PvP. Not only does it scrunch the power curve significantly, but it could allow PvP to be balanced through out the progression by focusing on balance with in each bracket, rather than level by level, or only worrying that level 50 PvP is balanced, with little concern for anything else. (With PvP not starting until after level 10, assuming brackets of 10 levels, they would only have four brackets for which class balancing would have to be accomplished, five, if there were a significant difference between level 49 and 50).
Hopefully they will address this soon. I also hope that they built in the capability for cross server queues, in case they decided to add brackets and felt they needed to expand the pool of participants as a result.
BTW, nerfing XP rewards for the losers was a pretty horrible decision, in a game where there are already notable balance issues between the two factions. The old XP rewards kept people on the losing side happy to keep trying through out what was already a frustrating situation. Changing the XP balance so that the dominant side also now levels much more quickly pushed many players from a tenacious stance to one of surrender and boycott, which serves neither side.
Expertise doesn't really make that much difference, at most it's ~10%. Besides, you can stack expertise from level 34 onwards by buying PvP weapons, removing the mods with expertise on them and putting them in your various armour pieces. You get way more commendations than you need anyway, i ended up saving up 1000 merc tokens and 1000 warzone tokens then just stocking up on the pvp health stims till i hit 50 seeing as they are capped at 1000.
Comments
go play vindictus.. combat in that game is a ton more fun and plays more like an action game.. too bad the rest of the game is meh..
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
yeah. another example of how AWESOME graphics and an AMAZING combat system can not save a game thats just... boring as all hell.
Ok, now I haven't actually played TERA, but my understanding is its combat is more about positional than actual dodge mechanics, is this correct? Each mob has a specific hitbox based on its model and the attacks are arc/facing in nature. I would be willing to agree that a combat mechanism with position attacks and arc directivety would be a serious plus to PvP combat. Maybe I'm seeing the idea differently than you guys, how exactly are you concidering a dodge a dodge? Reactive movement button hits when you sense an incoming attack, a built in mechanic to the game design itself, or actual position you are in during the combat in relation to your adversary? The latter I see as positional combat, not a dodge mechanic.
Also, is Blade & Soul out yet? Looks like we have several games in the works which are trying to bring more action orriented combat into the genre. Existing games though, not so much right?
Oh and Vindictus had great combat I will give you that, the instance hub game play and crappy item mall format destroy the graphics and combat though. Which is one of my points here as well, I dont believe one or the other is enough to make a great game, it takes them all IMO.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
this reeks of WoW. get to endgame to experience "the real, balanced pvp". no thanks.
people already gave examples of several games released with action pvp or you just not reading the other posts also dragon nest is another pretty popular F2P one that offers the action oriented combat
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I'm sorry, did I miss you mentioning a game different than Vindictus?? I addressed that in the rest of the post you quoted above here by the way.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
You are awful....
There. I fixed that for you.
##Best SWTOR of 2011
Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011
Originally posted by daveospice
"this game looks like crap?"
wanna guess how many times i was called an exploiter simply for dodging and rolling in DCUO? lets just say that launch day and a few days after were filled with the tears of n00bs that failed to comprehend that if you dodge you dont take damage...
Do you know why investors tend to like something safe?
Because they realize it stands a much better chance of making money.
Hmmmmmm...
I didn't but others have and just because the games were failures wasn't because of the combat systems many other factors went into why those games failed.. actually if you look at games like DC Uniiverse the thing most people say they enjoyed WAS the combat just most everything else not so much.. same with vindictus. People play games like dragon nest for the combat but the rest of those games are lacking.. Just wish more AAA companies would start putting more effort into there combat and from the looks of the new games coming looks like most are
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
TERA is all about position and movement and getting the hell out of the way.
No, B&S is not out yet.
and yes... it would appear that TOR will the last of the breed of "last gen" MMO's. some called it the tabtargeting MMO's "swan song" ... i can totally agree with that.
Its IMPOSSIBLE to have balance in any game with different classes, unless all classes have the same skills, health, force, gear, internet ping etc.
So the prob is all about the player behind the char that has to learn to play.
depends what you mean by balance.. if you mean have every single class has equal chance against every other class then id agree its impossible but if you use something like the rock paper scissors its not as difficult.. but either way no matter how balanced people will complain.. although sometimes theres glaring balance issues ala Rift were you have a FOTM class every patch
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Balance isn't binary thing, and while it's impossible to have perfect balance, it's certainly possible to have decent levels of it. Moreover, without decent balance you can forget about bringing out the player from behind the class - skill won't help you if the game is set against you. Which means that decent balance is required to achieve fair PvP.
So no, L2P isn't good responce if it's possible to prove that one class has significant edge over another (not saying it's the case in SWTOR, haven't played it long enough).
GREAT replies! I agree 100%! More skill than 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1
Sith Marauder and... the going is tough. i will say that Marauders/Sentinels have a long way to go before they are even remotely effective as damage dealers. They are the only classes that are PURE damage (no tank, no heal) and yet they are outdamaged by almost every other class. most of this comes from the fact that Ataru Form is complete garbage, and almost the entire carnage tree is dedicated to it, which makes that tree worthless. it does not trigger even half as often as it should, and the damage gain is just bogus. you get maybe 150 additional damage (at lvl 30) with all ataru form talents every 5-6 skills used. in a word... "pathetic"
rage tree is some sort of weird smash and run tree, designed completely around leaping into a gorup, triggering smash, and then running away.... as a talent tree it makes no sense at all. it combines movement impairing talents with damage reduction and AOE... it is a complete mess. best i can assume is it is a poor attempt at a tanking tree.
best damage a marauder/sentinel can put out is from bleeds (annihilation tree)... and bleeds just arent that great for PVP. you want pure burst damage in PVP, and for that BH and trooper reigns supreme. Im sure their raid effectiveness will be mediocre to good thanks to what looks to be decent sustained damage, but for now their PVP effectiveness is poor.
all of this isnt even mentioning the lore inconsistency with a "bleed spec" for someone with a lightsaber.... by the very nature of lightsabers being made from a laser... wounds inflicted by them would not bleed. at the very least, it should be called "burn" as that would atleast make SOME sense.
LOL
What about interrupts in TOR? Can you use objects or walls or anything as cover?
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Just writing a bit about my Battleground pvp expiriences so far....will do that again when i reach 5+ levels higher
I have a lvl 21 operative with full lvl 20 pvp set bought with tokens. Its a melee class with rifle support.
Not satisfied with the current dmg output at all, did wiht my lvl 16 sorcerer for miles better...
Pvp expirience fighting a lvl 22 with medium armor:
Main melee attack from stealth - Backstab: 900-1000 dmg
Sencond melee attack with 6 sec cooldown: 600-700 dmg
Dot arrow: 225 per tick
The joke is that white rifle fire is 400-500.....
Lvl 26 sorcerer did absorb with his shield both melee attacks...
I did read the class gets a lot better but so far I feel gimped...my lvl 16 sorcerer with alone lightining channeling does 900 dmg per tick/second and is ranged ( ! ), without his additional shock attack which is 1600 around + dmg of 2 different dot skills.
Overall problem is that you meet more and more higher lvls around 30is and your own dmg is going down even more, aswell they just dish out dmg that high which you cant counter. Wonder why they did not do any level brackets.....
Opponents:
Lvl 28 shadow - 3000+ special attack hit
Lvl 30 shadow - 5000 special attack inclusive melee+shock, died withint his stun time.
I rank SWTOR PVP a notch above City of Heroes. That's how terrible it is. It is one of the worst MMO's for PVP I've ever played.
I'd even rank Warhammer Online ahead of it, since at least that had RvR.
A lot of the PVE in SWTOR is great. The PVP, however, is downright atrocious.
It is a PvE focused game, what did you expect?
Besides, Bioware have a lot more experience with PvE so of course they do that part better.
I assume that PvP will be changed as time passes, like it have in most other MMOs.
I suspected it would be as such, having played numerous Bioware titles.
I suppose I was somewhat taken in by their marketing schemes at shows like E3, but I know I should've known better. What gets me is that I would've enjoyed KOTOR 3 so much more than whatever this game is.
I don't really consider it to be an MMO. More like an RPG with friends. But I still would've preferred KOTOR 3, and I imagine I'm not alone in that sentiment. It's been two lackluster Bioware titles for me in a row. First DA2 and now this. Up until this year, I could say that I'd never played a bad Bioware game. To SWTOR's credit, it's not as bad as DA2.
Didn't they say that they had hired some guys over from Mythic to create "exciting" PvP ?
Those guys just created the maps it seems and that's it?...
I say fire them and get some better replacements ;/
..Cake..
There is still a possibility that they could focus on some PVP elements and make it worthwhile. At this moment, I see it completely salvageable. It just needs some work and a little love, and I think they could really elevate the title.
But if they leave it and focus on other elements, I imagine that it will lose a big chunk of their subscriber base. We'll see in 2-3 months if Bioware can answer the call. The PVPers are very fickle, but they are also very loyal. If Bioware shows them some love, I think the game has a real chance. If not, I imagine it will eventually wind up around the sub base of Aion.
That being said, I doubt that it will ever go F2P. Lucas will simply not allow it; he's far too greedy and short-sighted.
Just wait. Soon you get Lava saber and Vet robes! =D
The biggest problem with Warfront PvP is the fact that there are no level brackets. Yes, people get scaled up, but a number of classes do not get extremely key abilities until higher levels and you don't get any expertise gear until much later on either.
Scaling is definitely much better than no scaling, but if you look at Guild Wars 2, they understand that while scaling for World vs. World does not make it fair, being more fair at least gives players who aren't at the cap the ability to contribute. However, they also understand that simple scaling is NOT fair for battleground/arena/(warfront) combat and thus fully level everyone there to the level cap, with full skills, builds and cap quality gear.
I don't bring up GW2 just to bring it up, but to point out that while TOR may have borrowed the concept of scaling for PvP from GW2, they misapplied it by using it in warfronts where character's skill and gear are limited by actual character level and no level brackets were utilized to counterbalance the remaining discrepencies. The scaling in no way removes the need for brackets!
If TOR were to combine their brand of level scaling, along with level brackets, they would have about as balanced a system one could have, assuming class balance in each bracket is acceptable. As is, it's just a lesson in frustration for many.
There are also design issues with all the maps, with the capture point map perhaps the most balanced, the ship access one being the most liikely to exhibit arbitrary unfairness and Huttball being the most unbalanced in favor of one faction over the other.
The level scaling was an important piece of the puzzle which could have led to amazing warfront PvP. Not only does it scrunch the power curve significantly, but it could allow PvP to be balanced through out the progression by focusing on balance with in each bracket, rather than level by level, or only worrying that level 50 PvP is balanced, with little concern for anything else. (With PvP not starting until after level 10, assuming brackets of 10 levels, they would only have four brackets for which class balancing would have to be accomplished, five, if there were a significant difference between level 49 and 50).
Hopefully they will address this soon. I also hope that they built in the capability for cross server queues, in case they decided to add brackets and felt they needed to expand the pool of participants as a result.
BTW, nerfing XP rewards for the losers was a pretty horrible decision, in a game where there are already notable balance issues between the two factions. The old XP rewards kept people on the losing side happy to keep trying through out what was already a frustrating situation. Changing the XP balance so that the dominant side also now levels much more quickly pushed many players from a tenacious stance to one of surrender and boycott, which serves neither side.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Expertise doesn't really make that much difference, at most it's ~10%. Besides, you can stack expertise from level 34 onwards by buying PvP weapons, removing the mods with expertise on them and putting them in your various armour pieces. You get way more commendations than you need anyway, i ended up saving up 1000 merc tokens and 1000 warzone tokens then just stocking up on the pvp health stims till i hit 50 seeing as they are capped at 1000.