A retail key for a MMO that grants 30 days for free is technically the same as a GTC.
They are not the same as I was pointing out.
If they were the same, you could activate your game with GTC and pay only subscription fee, without actually purchasing the game.
So no, they both do something different thus they are processed differently.
Before you start telling people to 'get it through your head', you better listen to what they say and make sure you understand it. If not, feel free to ask what isn't clear to you. Ranting will achieve nothing.
How the process work:
1) In order to setup an account, you have to enter retail key.
2) Account is setup. In order to access the service, your account has to be active subscriber status.
3) In order to gain active subscriber status, you need to setup a payment method.
If your account is already active, then 4)
If your account is inactive or the account is activated the first time, appropriate expiration time is assigned to your account.
4) You are billed/turned inactive once your active account status is expired.
Due nature of GTC, the GTC are processed immediately.
Steps 2-4 are the same for new or regular customer and why they both follow same process. There is no need to make it more complicated. It is simple, easy and reasonable.
Is it difficult to understand? Not comprehensive enough? Maybe, but seems like good deal of people understand the process just fine.
Hope it helped.
Your logical flaw here is that you point out that filling in payment details is the needed difference to seperate GTC from the retail copy that has the 30 days attached to it.
But that difference is already made by entering the retail key. It is unique for each copy. A copy for which is known to grant 30 days of sub. So a retail key which could trigger the start of those days on its own. This is why you dont need additional billing info. So it is also not the reason why they ask the customer billing information before the 30 days are over.
Your post did help me understand something though. That you were fishing for a more severe reaction with your condescending last paragraph.
This thread is ridiculous, but I'll bite. Asking for your CC information for your initial subscription is standard operating procedure for nearly all pay-to-play MMORPGs since Ultima Online. I am not sure why you would want sue them for that, and I wouldn't even want to speculate. The bottom line here is, this isn't something that you're going to be able to sue anyone over. A judge presented with the facts would probably laugh you out of court, and they could counter-sue. So if you do not like it, do not subscribe. It's really that simple.
------------------------- "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
This has been the standard practice of most pay to play MMOs for years now. This is not new... however the OP's lack of understanding of this concept leading him to being mad bro, is pretty awesome. Continue being stupid for my amusement.
this ^
I guess its possible the OP and one or 2 other posters here have never played a subscription MMO before SO are up in arms about nothing. (As already posted put in credit card information and then immediately cancil if one is really worrioed about being billed) More likely this whole thread is another stupid SW:tor hater thread trying for every little reason to possibly hate the game.
i thought the OP's post was Hillarious tbh.. i mean. making people pay for their subs by credit cards in this day and age.. how archaic.. we should be using food stamps or something...
They use it as reason why the OP shouldnt complain about it. The reason why this thread shouldnt even excist.
If a pracfice is accepted as common, it says nothing about that practice being right or wrong, friendly or unfriendly, or any opinion about that practice. Crime is also common and accepted for being common practice. But that is not the same as saying that crime is accepted.
This is getting silly.
Whats next? All the MMO companies chose this practice so it is a result of a democratic process?
It's inconveinent I agree with any who feel that way. I wouldn't call it criminal. I've always looked at it as a commitment to pay. Only now in the last few years has it become common for companies to offer trials with no commitment to pay later, last I checked DAOC was still like that. Eve was for a long time as well.
Might be why many always bold the No CC required part of their adds, as it was common for a long, long time, and a lot of people expect to have to enter it.
I also dont think its criminal (I dont agree with the thread title), the OP just made me think about this that it is not a customer friendly practice. Especially if you for some reason need to use GTC's.
Another reason why I joined this discussion is that some players dont seem to learn that you dont really buy a game with a MMO retail copy. This makes your retail copy just an extra pricy first month of access. Because that is all what it is. There is no extra value in these early copies. And if you dont agree with this, then what else are you paying for then? Especially if you think those 30 days are actually for free.
You will also see that on a later stage that EA will let you download the client for free and you only have to start subbing then.
The BOX garunteed you 30 free days.. Don't give me any of this "UP TO" grabage as it was in Early release.. They should not have locked people out for no billing info.. I could understand the product code to redeem your 30 days, but the billing should not have been neccessary until the cycle was over..
My understanding here is that they suspended billing info requirements for two days(grace period) due to possible shipping delays. After which the system would run as normal, CC info required to set up a subscription plan.
I just find it odd, that after about 10 years of seeing this practice this is the first time I've seen so many widespread complaints about it.
Because alot of these idiots were 10 when it first started.
What really sucks is alot of this has to do with the early access. Now watch how no other MMO ever offers early access because of this nonsense.
I've been in the same situation just recently with Rift. Took me a free call and 3 minutes of chatting with a very friendly CS lady to enable my new account for 30 days.
Now, if Bioware/EA would refuse this and i would not want to give them my CC for a reason or buy a game card in advance, i'd return my copy to the local store or i'd make use of my 14 days return right that comes with every internet or phone purchase where i live.
I also dont think its criminal (I dont agree with the thread title), the OP just made me think about this that it is not a customer friendly practice. Especially if you for some reason need to use GTC's.
Another reason why I joined this discussion is that some players dont seem to learn that you dont really buy a game with a MMO retail copy. This makes your retail copy just an extra pricy first month of access. Because that is all what it is. There is no extra value in these early copies. And if you dont agree with this, then what else are you paying for then? Especially if you think those 30 days are actually for free.
You will also see that on a later stage that EA will let you download the client for free and you only have to start subbing then.
I can't exactly disagree with your point, as yes I buy a box to play the game, so yes I'm paying to have that thirty days of playtime.
And you're right the client will be free at some point if they follow standards.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by someforumguy Your logical flaw here is that you point out that filling in payment details is the needed difference to seperate GTC from the retail copy that has the 30 days attached to it.
There is no flaw as nothing you have said implies logical conflict.
Whether retail key should trigger an activation automatically or not is a question. Question you do not posses enough insight into technical and business aspects of internal systems to discuss it.
The last paragraph of my previous post wasn't meant as 'condescending' because I do admit that the process might be confusing for some people - subscribing and then immediately unsubscribing isn't very intuitive. I just offered reasonable explanation how the process work and reasons for need of such 'workaround'.
I don't see why so many people are throwing a fit over this. Are they that many people new to mmo's? Having to put in a payment method first thing has being going on since before EQ and that was late 90's. As many people pointed out you will not get charged till after your first free 30 days.
As for people talking about all the bugs... uhhhh, what bugs? Yes I know there's bugs but I have yet to see any major bugs that's hurting the game. My guess is trolls trying to make the game look bad. SWTOR is by far the most stable and bug free mmo at launch I've played in a long time.
Your logical flaw here is that you point out that filling in payment details is the needed difference to seperate GTC from the retail copy that has the 30 days attached to it.
There is no flaw as nothing you have said implies logical conflict.
Whether retail key should trigger an activation automatically or not is a question. Question you do not posses enough insight into technical and business aspects of internal systems to discuss it.
The last paragraph of my previous post wasn't meant as 'condescending' because I do admit that the process might be confusing for some people - subscribing and then immediately unsubscribing isn't very intuitive. I just offered reasonable explanation how the process work and reasons for need of such 'workaround'.
This is only the case because EA chose to make it so. My point is that they didnt have to for the first 30 days which are granted from purchasing the copy. There is no technical reason for it, because account information (username+passw) +unique retail key is enough information to accurately identify a customer that paid for the retail copy that grants 30 days access. So the 30 days are accounted for. So any additional required information (or even additional payment if you chose GTC option) is a CHOICE from EA for a business reason.
I cant explain any clearer in English, only repeat what I already wrote in earlier posts. It is also obvious to me that in certain cases (like with Star Wars products ) a company can afford to let a customer jump through unnecessary hoops. It just needs enough demand for the product. The moment that becomes less, you will see that they create a lower entry point to give a customer more satisfaction and less obstruction (which on its own already proves that it can be done technically).
In my country this kind of practice used to be common with other sorts of subscription services too (GSM services, pay per view television, internet subscriptions etc), but that has slowly changed fortunately in more customer friendly agreements.
Well use some of that intelligence your have inside that knoggin and buy a prepaid credit card or open a paypal account. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY A PREPAID GAME CARD. There are other options.
ps. it wouldnt even make it into court
Maybe you should use some of the intelligence you are asking me to use.
Bioware is saying to me that gamecards are valid payment options. So why should I buy a prepaid credit card or open a paypal account?
Originally posted by someforumguy There is no technical reason for it
Just an example why not have same automatic activation: Client, retail key and activation can all come in different times and sources.
I guess you would not be very delighted if you had created an account that would also activated your product but had no client available because your retail key was emailed to you while you are still waiting for your box to be shipped...
Their billing systems needs to be robust because they are handling various needs of various products. Not to say their systems were designed before any GTC was available.
Your concerns and 'clear explanation' are insignificant in greater picture, picture you have an idea about. Sometimes it is good to admit that there are more thing you do not know than you do...
It is done by EA. EA is all about milking profit. They couldn't care less about the consumer. So long as they can sucker people in, they will enjoy doing whatever they can to get that money. I have no doubt they will knickle and dime anyone playing this game. I just hope they don't start smacking bioware as well. They are know to screw over their own employees as well. If thye do, we might have 1 person handling all of the updates on this game in the future.
hold on .. you are angry you have to put in a subscription plan (that wont be billed till the end of your free month) like we have been doing for every single mmo in the last what? 12-15 years?
Nope. Rift did not do this. I bought a copy, played my 30 days and never gave them my credit card details nor choose a subscription plan.
Maybe so I didn't play Rift aside from Open Beta. Still for lack of a better expression, an exception to the rule does not change the general rule.
F2P MMORPGs doesn't do it either. Just because it is the norm for P2P MMORPGs does not mean it is right, or even makes sense.
Hahaha four pages on this rubbish? Welcome to subscription MMORPGS......best of all you just cancel before the time is up.
Now what is really stupid on Bioware's part, I chose Paypal and incorrectly filled out the billing address. I tried to fix this by choosing billing method again, but they said my email for Paypal was already in use...so I just went through with it...even though its all wrong hahaha...
hold on .. you are angry you have to put in a subscription plan (that wont be billed till the end of your free month) like we have been doing for every single mmo in the last what? 12-15 years?
Nope. Rift did not do this. I bought a copy, played my 30 days and never gave them my credit card details nor choose a subscription plan.
Maybe so I didn't play Rift aside from Open Beta. Still for lack of a better expression, an exception to the rule does not change the general rule.
F2P MMORPGs doesn't do it either. Just because it is the norm for P2P MMORPGs does not mean it is right, or even makes sense.
Hahaha, a good number of people who play "F2P"s also pay over 15 dollars a month in "goodies". That is probably not right, and it obviously does not make sense.
I feel like you enjoy arguing nearly every point. Relax its the Holidays after all :P
I wouldn't recommend trying to Sue...by suing them for requiring active subscription to play when the product casing, ads and website is practically plastered with words "REQUIRES ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTION TO PLAY" you pretty much would get laughed out of court...but it's your money!
Just an example why not have same automatic activation: Client, retail key and activation can all come in different times and sources.
I guess you would not be very delighted if you had created an account that would also activated your product but had no client available because your retail key was emailed to you while you are still waiting for your box to be shipped...
Their billing systems needs to be robust because they are handling various needs of various products. Not to say their systems were designed before any GTC was available.
Your concerns and 'clear explanation' are insignificant in greater picture, picture you have an idea about. Sometimes it is good to admit that there are more thing you do not know than you do...
So the system was designed before any GTC was available, but still they managed to make GTC a viable payment option in their system. Hmm...
And you know for a fact that my concerns and 'clear explanation' are insignificant in the greater picture. So you either are working for EA or you are just presenting assumption as fact. I can understand if you dont want to make a choice
And for the activating your account without having the game in your possession example. The current system doesnt prevent that either. What prevents a customer now from activating a game before finishing installing it, if they bought the retail copy? It has nothing to do with having to give additional payment information anyway. The current system doesnt prevent your little scenario example at all.
And stop cherrypicking from my posts. You keep presenting my quotes to make it look as if I dont back up my statements with arguments.
You know that there is no ground to gain anymore, but go ahead and keep grasping. Im going to sleep.
The BOX garunteed you 30 free days.. Don't give me any of this "UP TO" grabage as it was in Early release.. They should not have locked people out for no billing info.. I could understand the product code to redeem your 30 days, but the billing should not have been neccessary until the cycle was over..
My understanding here is that they suspended billing info requirements for two days(grace period) due to possible shipping delays. After which the system would run as normal, CC info required to set up a subscription plan.
I just find it odd, that after about 10 years of seeing this practice this is the first time I've seen so many widespread complaints about it.
Because alot of these idiots were 10 when it first started.
What really sucks is alot of this has to do with the early access. Now watch how no other MMO ever offers early access because of this nonsense.
Don't worry.. I can promise you GW2 will not need any additional billing info after you purchase the game.. So I guess we'll be 10 year old idiots if that makes you feel any better.. I entered my information and have been granted access, have done so many of times.. But my stance will not and has not changed no matter how many insults you throw...
Comments
We don't need your CC# - this isn't the game you were looking for.....you can go about your way....move along...move along.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
is this his first sub-based MMO?
this seems a normal practice to me.
Your logical flaw here is that you point out that filling in payment details is the needed difference to seperate GTC from the retail copy that has the 30 days attached to it.
But that difference is already made by entering the retail key. It is unique for each copy. A copy for which is known to grant 30 days of sub. So a retail key which could trigger the start of those days on its own. This is why you dont need additional billing info. So it is also not the reason why they ask the customer billing information before the 30 days are over.
Your post did help me understand something though. That you were fishing for a more severe reaction with your condescending last paragraph.
This thread is ridiculous, but I'll bite. Asking for your CC information for your initial subscription is standard operating procedure for nearly all pay-to-play MMORPGs since Ultima Online. I am not sure why you would want sue them for that, and I wouldn't even want to speculate. The bottom line here is, this isn't something that you're going to be able to sue anyone over. A judge presented with the facts would probably laugh you out of court, and they could counter-sue. So if you do not like it, do not subscribe. It's really that simple.
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
this ^
I guess its possible the OP and one or 2 other posters here have never played a subscription MMO before SO are up in arms about nothing. (As already posted put in credit card information and then immediately cancil if one is really worrioed about being billed) More likely this whole thread is another stupid SW:tor hater thread trying for every little reason to possibly hate the game.
i thought the OP's post was Hillarious tbh.. i mean. making people pay for their subs by credit cards in this day and age.. how archaic.. we should be using food stamps or something...
I also dont think its criminal (I dont agree with the thread title), the OP just made me think about this that it is not a customer friendly practice. Especially if you for some reason need to use GTC's.
Another reason why I joined this discussion is that some players dont seem to learn that you dont really buy a game with a MMO retail copy. This makes your retail copy just an extra pricy first month of access. Because that is all what it is. There is no extra value in these early copies. And if you dont agree with this, then what else are you paying for then? Especially if you think those 30 days are actually for free.
You will also see that on a later stage that EA will let you download the client for free and you only have to start subbing then.
Because alot of these idiots were 10 when it first started.
What really sucks is alot of this has to do with the early access. Now watch how no other MMO ever offers early access because of this nonsense.
I've been in the same situation just recently with Rift. Took me a free call and 3 minutes of chatting with a very friendly CS lady to enable my new account for 30 days.
Now, if Bioware/EA would refuse this and i would not want to give them my CC for a reason or buy a game card in advance, i'd return my copy to the local store or i'd make use of my 14 days return right that comes with every internet or phone purchase where i live.
So, what's all the commotion?
I can't exactly disagree with your point, as yes I buy a box to play the game, so yes I'm paying to have that thirty days of playtime.
And you're right the client will be free at some point if they follow standards.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There is no flaw as nothing you have said implies logical conflict.
Whether retail key should trigger an activation automatically or not is a question. Question you do not posses enough insight into technical and business aspects of internal systems to discuss it.
The last paragraph of my previous post wasn't meant as 'condescending' because I do admit that the process might be confusing for some people - subscribing and then immediately unsubscribing isn't very intuitive. I just offered reasonable explanation how the process work and reasons for need of such 'workaround'.
I don't see why so many people are throwing a fit over this. Are they that many people new to mmo's? Having to put in a payment method first thing has being going on since before EQ and that was late 90's. As many people pointed out you will not get charged till after your first free 30 days.
As for people talking about all the bugs... uhhhh, what bugs? Yes I know there's bugs but I have yet to see any major bugs that's hurting the game. My guess is trolls trying to make the game look bad. SWTOR is by far the most stable and bug free mmo at launch I've played in a long time.
This is only the case because EA chose to make it so. My point is that they didnt have to for the first 30 days which are granted from purchasing the copy. There is no technical reason for it, because account information (username+passw) +unique retail key is enough information to accurately identify a customer that paid for the retail copy that grants 30 days access. So the 30 days are accounted for. So any additional required information (or even additional payment if you chose GTC option) is a CHOICE from EA for a business reason.
I cant explain any clearer in English, only repeat what I already wrote in earlier posts. It is also obvious to me that in certain cases (like with Star Wars products
) a company can afford to let a customer jump through unnecessary hoops. It just needs enough demand for the product. The moment that becomes less, you will see that they create a lower entry point to give a customer more satisfaction and less obstruction (which on its own already proves that it can be done technically).
In my country this kind of practice used to be common with other sorts of subscription services too (GSM services, pay per view television, internet subscriptions etc), but that has slowly changed fortunately in more customer friendly agreements.
Maybe you should use some of the intelligence you are asking me to use.
Bioware is saying to me that gamecards are valid payment options. So why should I buy a prepaid credit card or open a paypal account?
Just an example why not have same automatic activation: Client, retail key and activation can all come in different times and sources.
I guess you would not be very delighted if you had created an account that would also activated your product but had no client available because your retail key was emailed to you while you are still waiting for your box to be shipped...
Their billing systems needs to be robust because they are handling various needs of various products. Not to say their systems were designed before any GTC was available.
Your concerns and 'clear explanation' are insignificant in greater picture, picture you have an idea about. Sometimes it is good to admit that there are more thing you do not know than you do...
It is done by EA. EA is all about milking profit. They couldn't care less about the consumer. So long as they can sucker people in, they will enjoy doing whatever they can to get that money. I have no doubt they will knickle and dime anyone playing this game. I just hope they don't start smacking bioware as well. They are know to screw over their own employees as well. If thye do, we might have 1 person handling all of the updates on this game in the future.
I don't think he is a troll. I think that he is just a juvenile with no accedss to a credit card, hence he can't play and therefore he rages about it.
F2P MMORPGs doesn't do it either. Just because it is the norm for P2P MMORPGs does not mean it is right, or even makes sense.
My gaming blog
Hahaha four pages on this rubbish? Welcome to subscription MMORPGS...
...best of all you just cancel before the time is up.
Now what is really stupid on Bioware's part, I chose Paypal and incorrectly filled out the billing address. I tried to fix this by choosing billing method again, but they said my email for Paypal was already in use...so I just went through with it...even though its all wrong hahaha...
Hahaha, a good number of people who play "F2P"s also pay over 15 dollars a month in "goodies". That is probably not right, and it obviously does not make sense.
I feel like you enjoy arguing nearly every point. Relax its the Holidays after all :P
Where do these noobs spawn from?
I wouldn't recommend trying to Sue...by suing them for requiring active subscription to play when the product casing, ads and website is practically plastered with words "REQUIRES ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTION TO PLAY" you pretty much would get laughed out of court...but it's your money!
it's the age-old internet argument.
to pay for porn, or not to pay for porn? that is the question.
So the system was designed before any GTC was available, but still they managed to make GTC a viable payment option in their system. Hmm...
And you know for a fact that my concerns and 'clear explanation' are insignificant in the greater picture. So you either are working for EA or you are just presenting assumption as fact. I can understand if you dont want to make a choice
And for the activating your account without having the game in your possession example. The current system doesnt prevent that either. What prevents a customer now from activating a game before finishing installing it, if they bought the retail copy? It has nothing to do with having to give additional payment information anyway. The current system doesnt prevent your little scenario example at all.
And stop cherrypicking from my posts. You keep presenting my quotes to make it look as if I dont back up my statements with arguments.
You know that there is no ground to gain anymore, but go ahead and keep grasping. Im going to sleep.
Don't worry.. I can promise you GW2 will not need any additional billing info after you purchase the game.. So I guess we'll be 10 year old idiots if that makes you feel any better.. I entered my information and have been granted access, have done so many of times.. But my stance will not and has not changed no matter how many insults you throw...
They don't charge you unless you play passed the initial 30 days free peroid..nothing illegal only peoples stupidity.