I just moved from RIFT to SWTOR and I totally regret even buying this game now .
It feels worse than RIFT and WOW , they have taken a huge step backwards in game play . Sure the story cutscenes are great but the actual game is pure garbage .
I quit WOW years ago so I definately wouldnt want to play that game again with a new skin .
Nothing feels right , the animation feels jerky and broken . The quests are shallow and the entire world feels instanced ( probably because it is ) .
I never connected to my character like I did back in EQ days when the thought of possibly dying bought excitement and fear of going into a new dungeon or area .
It's nearly 2012 and this is how far we have come ? We have gone backwards .
So now what? I guess I just have to wait for GW2 to come out or Diablo3 ?
The EQ era died with dark age of camelot, eq2, Vanguard Saga of heroes, and all the good stuff that mmorpgs used to be about. No more housing, no more being able to leave your mark on an mmorpg. In today's mmorpg world, you are just another instanced battle ground target, fighting for gear points and otherwise factional interests. Nothing you do in pve or pvp will amount to anything for anyone in your faction - welcome to the era of video games with an mmorpg title.
What they need to call these things is MMOVG = Massively Multiplayer Online Video Game. EQ was an mmo RPG (Role Playing Game). It's all dudespeak, gold spammers, free to play, and wuts up pwn face leet talk.
Once you hit the capital and move on out-- you see people lfg for this and for that--- its definately an MMO
If there's one thing I'm fed up with in MMOs then its seeing crowd doing nothing but spamming chat with lfg requests. There's no difference between that and waiting in a lobby.
WoW I got bored with pretty quickly... click, quest, accept, kill, turn-in, reward... rinse, repeat.
RIFT I got bored with even more quickly... WoW in a different setting, nothing new at all.
SW:TOR I have been playing since the first day of early access (plus during beta) and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. Questing with a purpose makes it so much better than other "themeparks" that I've played. I feel like I'm playing out a part in my own movie. I'm actually attached to my character. I think the animations are far superior to those in any MMO except ultra-realistic ones like AoC, and I can forgive them for not being "ultra realistic" because the game is supposed to be a bit fantastic/sci-fi to begin with.
So... I guess it's all just a matter of opinion. Right now the only game that's ever been bigger is WoW. I doubt SW:TOR will ever surpass WoW, but I doubt that any other MMO will ever take the 2nd spot away from SW:TOR. Of course there's no way to know that for at least 6-12 months... so we'll see!
I think it's just different strokes for different folks.
For me, the story doesn't excite all that much. I think it's mainly because I've been playing RPGs since the old SSI gold box games, and having played so many, I easily tire of cliche plot elements. I'm kind of like a jaded critic when it comes to RPG plots. When someone tells me that their son has been kidnapped by bandits who are holed up in some nearby dungeonesque building and they need to rescue him, I die a little inside.
Don't get me wrong, I like (maybe even love) a great RPG story, but most of SWTOR's sidequests are very cliche. And you typically spend a lot of time doing sidequests. So I just find myself disinterested in them. Some of the main class storylines that I've seen are interesting, but some are cliche as well.
My friend on the other hand, loves the story aspects of SWTOR. So it's really just a matter of taste I think.
I agree with you 100% (and in fact used the "different strokes" comment in several other threads myself!)
The folks who like SW:TOR's story will probably like playing SW:TOR. The folks who don't care much for story (at all), or who don't care specifically for the (likely cliche) stories that SW:TOR has to offer won't enjoy the game as much - for those people, it probably doesn't amount to much more than "WoW with lightsabers".
I think it will be interesting to see what happens with this one. On the one hand, if SW:TOR is succesful (in the long run), it might signal an entirely new direction for the MMORPG market... but one that will most likely be very tough to follow (given the extreme expense of doing such a story-immersive MMO). On the other hand, if SW:TOR isn't succesful, it will be interesting to see if anybody can come up with something that's both "different/innovative" while at the same time being fun to lots of people for a long time to come. If not... well... the mousewheel continues to spin...
Once you hit the capital and move on out-- you see people lfg for this and for that--- its definately an MMO
If there's one thing I'm fed up with in MMOs then its seeing crowd doing nothing but spamming chat with lfg requests. There's no difference between that and waiting in a lobby.
Are you aware this game just came out? I am confused how you expect people to group up in an MMO? How are they supposed to meet new people? find a guild if typing LF1M MR need tank bugs you that much? It may be time for you to run off to the XBOX.
I personally think the adding of dungeon finders takes away from the community. I enjoy finding new people to run Flashpoints with if they are good we add them to our guild.
Totally agree with the OP. Luckily I was able to get into the "free trial" aka the big open beta weekend. I would have been disappointed dropping 60 bucks on this title also. I can't remember the last time an MMO has felt less massive/multiplayer. To SWTOR's credit though they did knock the roleplaying portion out of the ballpark.
Hey grown men listen up. Put it on your thick skull that you WILL NEVER, EVER EVER, feel the same way you felt the first time you played an MMO. You say we are going backwards? or are you just stupid to see that its part of our humanity that once we tried or tasted something, we expect even more of the next that should come our way.
Yes you played EQ, you never felt something so grandeur and happy while playing it. You then played WoW which gave some unique features, but after playing it for so long that you are so attached to it that once you've played a different one you expect more.YES! You do expect more! but don't yap about telling the WHOLE WORLD that we are going backwards in the MMO Genre because if you stop being childish and act like an adult and be open-minded, you'll see how innovative EA and Bioware is w/ this game.
You want a solution? either stick to your CUP OF TEA MMO or just stop playing MMO 'cause you WILL NEVER, again, NEVER feel the same way you felt when you played your first MMO.
The whole design approach of the current - so called - MMORPGs is VERY different of what it was pre-2004.
80% of the game mechanics of EverQuest you cant find in the current shallow trend of an "MMORPG". I personally miss these game mechanics and design philosophies like No Hand holding which unchains the community from being forced to go back and firthe in a pre-determined path which orevents you, the player, from getting the proper freedom to actually be in the world among othet players. Also the fact that you can kill anyone but face the consequences. The fact that night is dark. Complex non-instanced dungeong. The world is never convenient for you, it was a dangerous world. I can write a book about this... But i know for sure it is not nostalgia.... it is the game design choices... i want a modern version of what an mmorpg should supposr to be and all what i get is a shallow experience.
Hey grown men listen up. Put it on your thick skull that you WILL NEVER, EVER EVER, feel the same way you felt the first time you played an MMO. You say we are going backwards? or are you just stupid to see that its part of our humanity that once we tried or tasted something, we expect even more of the next that should come our way.
Yes you played EQ, you never felt something so grandeur and happy while playing it. You then played WoW which gave some unique features, but after playing it for so long that you are so attached to it that once you've played a different one you expect more.YES! You do expect more! but don't yap about telling the WHOLE WORLD that we are going backwards in the MMO Genre because if you stop being childish and act like an adult and be open-minded, you'll see how innovative EA and Bioware is w/ this game.
You want a solution? either stick to your CUP OF TEA MMO or just stop playing MMO 'cause you WILL NEVER, again, NEVER feel the same way you felt when you played your first MMO.
First off, I'm not slamming SWTOR in any way, so fanboi's don't have to get all up in my face about my comments.
I realize that any games that are new or on the horizon will never replace the sentiment I have towards my first mmo, but I really blame that on a lack of ingenuity on the developers behalf. SWTOR chose to use an existing model, and though proven it may be, it sets itself up to be compared to it's predecessors. GW2 is changing the mould a bit, and look at the response from the fanbase. The next generation of games will change things even more. Too many games have adopted a new skin onto a stagnant mechanic. There is room to create the best mmo ever, but it will never be created by making the same thing as we had already.
I know that there is much greater possibilities then the developers allow us to explore, and there are probably more causes to this stagnation then I care to understand. The point is, there is improvements that can be brought out, if the developers would just make them a reality.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Really its simple math. The people who really enjoy the game are playing it and the haters are here posting. Thats why most of the posts are flames or trolls.
Hey grown men listen up. Put it on your thick skull that you WILL NEVER, EVER EVER, feel the same way you felt the first time you played an MMO. You say we are going backwards? or are you just stupid to see that its part of our humanity that once we tried or tasted something, we expect even more of the next that should come our way.
Yes you played EQ, you never felt something so grandeur and happy while playing it. You then played WoW which gave some unique features, but after playing it for so long that you are so attached to it that once you've played a different one you expect more.YES! You do expect more! but don't yap about telling the WHOLE WORLD that we are going backwards in the MMO Genre because if you stop being childish and act like an adult and be open-minded, you'll see how innovative EA and Bioware is w/ this game.
You want a solution? either stick to your CUP OF TEA MMO or just stop playing MMO 'cause you WILL NEVER, again, NEVER feel the same way you felt when you played your first MMO.
First off, I'm not slamming SWTOR in any way, so fanboi's don't have to get all up in my face about my comments.
I realize that any games that are new or on the horizon will never replace the sentiment I have towards my first mmo, but I really blame that on a lack of ingenuity on the developers behalf. SWTOR chose to use an existing model, and though proven it may be, it sets itself up to be compared to it's predecessors. GW2 is changing the mould a bit, and look at the response from the fanbase. The next generation of games will change things even more. Too many games have adopted a new skin onto a stagnant mechanic. There is room to create the best mmo ever, but it will never be created by making the same thing as we had already.
I know that there is much greater possibilities then the developers allow us to explore, and there are probably more causes to this stagnation then I care to understand. The point is, there is improvements that can be brought out, if the developers would just make them a reality.
Which is all well and good, however to produce these genre busting, mind blowing advances in gameplay, exploration and player freedom requires an exponential amount of resources, a bit like the "light barrier".
While many of the jaded side of the community like to wallow in the "drudgery" , in what happens to be some of the defining mechanics of a genre, the majority of people see it for what it is, a pastime, a hobby, a game. While those who provide us with this form of enterainment see it, righlty, as a business first and a passion second. As such all things that require resources and material risk there has to be a limit.
When GW2 launches it will be the same story, in fact I am certain there are those whom frequent these boards that are serial idolisers of "saviour games" in development who move on to the next development as soon as their current fantasy reaches gold.
Hey grown men listen up. Put it on your thick skull that you WILL NEVER, EVER EVER, feel the same way you felt the first time you played an MMO. You say we are going backwards? or are you just stupid to see that its part of our humanity that once we tried or tasted something, we expect even more of the next that should come our way.
Yes you played EQ, you never felt something so grandeur and happy while playing it. You then played WoW which gave some unique features, but after playing it for so long that you are so attached to it that once you've played a different one you expect more.YES! You do expect more! but don't yap about telling the WHOLE WORLD that we are going backwards in the MMO Genre because if you stop being childish and act like an adult and be open-minded, you'll see how innovative EA and Bioware is w/ this game.
You want a solution? either stick to your CUP OF TEA MMO or just stop playing MMO 'cause you WILL NEVER, again, NEVER feel the same way you felt when you played your first MMO.
Thats so wrong its not even funny, I mean there is some true into this, but if you use that argumentation to anything related to computer its pretty ridiculous to say the least, since computer stuff evolve so damn fast, seam like you get some payement for bad PR by some shitty company tbh. They are pleinty of games on the marked that blow away the older games, if you don't know that, you clearly are very new to gaming. If you still beleive in what you are saying go play "pack man" and see how it is fun for the new kids like you, still full of enthusiasm! Computer games evolve tremendously, beleive it or not, thats what happen. I don't even understand how some poeple like you could have come with that kind of logic you are using here? Some people really have some free time to come up with such twisted logic, to explain the crap they are doing.
I just moved from RIFT to SWTOR and I totally regret even buying this game now .
It feels worse than RIFT and WOW , they have taken a huge step backwards in game play . Sure the story cutscenes are great but the actual game is pure garbage .
I quit WOW years ago so I definately wouldnt want to play that game again with a new skin .
Nothing feels right , the animation feels jerky and broken . The quests are shallow and the entire world feels instanced ( probably because it is ) .
I never connected to my character like I did back in EQ days when the thought of possibly dying bought excitement and fear of going into a new dungeon or area .
It's nearly 2012 and this is how far we have come ? We have gone backwards .
So now what? I guess I just have to wait for GW2 to come out or Diablo3 ?
Original poster is right they spent so much money and the game is pure garbage. The movement is horrible, the camera angels suck, the quests are lame, the world is not alive , The game feels more like a single player RPG than an MMO. All in all Good points from the OP I agree completely but lucky for me I got to try the beta and was able to cancel my preorder so i saved myself from this disaster!
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
It is the search for a MMO nevarda that has kept old players buying these games. That and the tendancy of teenagers to have zero MMO loyalty has created this great wilderbeast of MMO players who forever ride to the next best watering hole.
It is the search for a MMO nevarda that has kept old players buying these games. That and the tendancy of teenagers to have zero MMO loyalty has created this great wilderbeast of MMO players who forever ride to the next best watering hole.
It seam a lot of gamer repeat what they read on forum and have zero thinking power. Why Wow player play this game for 5 to 10 years then. Is the Wow generation the vet of mmo now? Damn i must very old then. New gen is as fidel to mmo as it was back then in my days when the 1r mmo launched. Both gen played for 5 to 10 year their 1r mmo.
The Old Republic might be an MMO (and I think that is really pushing the term hard), but it certainly isn't an MMORPG. I honestly think its closer to a CORPG than an MMO. This stands to reason considering that most gamers these days just simply can't be bothered to group, and one of the frequently asked questions is, "Can I solo it?". Please, the whole point of a MMORPG is to play with other people, and if the majority of content (not all, but the majority) is designed around the solo mentality, then it really isn't a MMO(RPG).
CORPGs mechanics are designed first and foremost around solo gameplay, with 'optional' multiplayer elements. I keep hearing the same thing from propontents of SWTOR, that they like this aspect because it doesn't force them to group, and thus my case is made. Also this is what makes the game world feel shallow, because it is the inherent nature of solo mechanics to prevent impactful change on the world, and so nothing you do as a participant in that world changes anything. Someone doing the same quest can come alond behind the previous player and do the exact same thing and there is no impact at all, other than you gained some loot and a few experience points. Oh, and you progessed in the 'story'.
Once upon a time, MMO(RPG)s had what was called player interdependency, wherein one player with a certain set of skills was required for another player with specific skills to progress. There were no classes, which honestly, is just character progression for dummies. Each player needed other players in order to progress and develop their characters. This is the reason why communities in MMO(RPG)s were once amazing things. Today, they are filled with immature spoiled brats running around with daddy's credit card uttering leet speak.
Call me a dinosaur if you wish, but MMO(RPG)s were better in the past, and what we have today is doing nothing but catering to instant gratification and the dumbing down of games. People have no imagination anymore, they are happy to be force fed their entertainment.
Well said. The need for soloing in MMO's is slowly killing the genre, something which the soloers don't even realise. Look at the thread on the Pub - General Discussion, they even want to be able to have an alternate option to complete raids solo so they don't have to group up to do it. If things continue, we'll be paying a monthly subscription for single player games.
You are getting old Requiamer, you have been on here since 2005 thats nearly 7 years. The oldest MMO player cannot have put in more than 15 years (When UO started, yes I know there were a couple of MMO like games before that.)
We are part of the older MMO generation, if you are still on WoW after all these years (not sure) good luck to you. But most people who joined when you did are long gone, MMOs are a transient stop offs, compaired to the online worlds they once were.
Well said. The need for soloing in MMO's is slowly killing the genre, something which the soloers don't even realise. Look at the thread on the Pub - General Discussion, they even want to be able to have an alternate option to complete raids solo so they don't have to group up to do it. If things continue, we'll be paying a monthly subscription for single player games.
Imo, the developers (not just BW), should look for inovative ways to weave the desire for soloing, with grouping and Social aspects, to create a system that can deliver both, but not at the expense of each other.
I think some of such things, will come in the form of additional side content, outside the typcial level advance, that is social in nature, and thus something that would help motivate players to actively interact with each other in the game world.
You are getting old Requiamer, you have been on here since 2005 thats nearly 7 years. The oldest MMO player cannot have put in more than 15 years (When UO started, yes I know there were a couple of MMO like games before that.)
We are part of the older MMO generation, if you are still on WoW after all these years (not sure) good luck to you. But most people who joined when you did are long gone, MMOs are a transient stop offs, compaired to the online worlds they once were.
Not meaning to be to pedantic here but The Realm launched in 1995,i was playing it so i should know UO launched in 1997,and yeah i agree with your other points but Vanguard is still flying the flag and getting some love now at last.
The Old Republic might be an MMO (and I think that is really pushing the term hard), but it certainly isn't an MMORPG. I honestly think its closer to a CORPG than an MMO. This stands to reason considering that most gamers these days just simply can't be bothered to group, and one of the frequently asked questions is, "Can I solo it?". Please, the whole point of a MMORPG is to play with other people, and if the majority of content (not all, but the majority) is designed around the solo mentality, then it really isn't a MMO(RPG).
CORPGs mechanics are designed first and foremost around solo gameplay, with 'optional' multiplayer elements. I keep hearing the same thing from propontents of SWTOR, that they like this aspect because it doesn't force them to group, and thus my case is made. Also this is what makes the game world feel shallow, because it is the inherent nature of solo mechanics to prevent impactful change on the world, and so nothing you do as a participant in that world changes anything. Someone doing the same quest can come behind and do the exact same thing and there is no impact at all, other than you gained some loot and a few experience points. Oh, and you progessed in the 'story'.
Once upon a time, MMO(RPG)s had what was called player interdependency, wherein one player with a certain set of skills was required for another player with specific skills to progress. There were no classes, which honestly, is just character progression for dummies. Each player needed other players in order to progress and develop their characters. This is the reason why communities in MMO(RPG)s were once amazing things. Today, they are filled with immature spoiled brats running around with daddy's credit card uttering leet speak.
Call me a dinosaur if you wish, but MMO(RPG)s were better in the past, and what we have today is doing nothing but catering to instant gratification and the dumbing down of games. People have no imagination anymore, they are happy to be force fed their entertainment.
An MMO with more roleplaying than any game is quite awhile is not an MMORPG? I will agree with you that MMO's as a whole have gone downhill when it comes to player dependancy.
Remember spending 30 minutes walking to a summon stone in WoW?
If you don't like a game don't play it, and quit running to MMORPG.com to trash it.
Well said. The need for soloing in MMO's is slowly killing the genre, something which the soloers don't even realise. Look at the thread on the Pub - General Discussion, they even want to be able to have an alternate option to complete raids solo so they don't have to group up to do it. If things continue, we'll be paying a monthly subscription for single player games.
Wrong Soloing isn't killin the genre it's the me generation who want to troll on everyone with no consquence that is killin the genre.Most of the early mmog adapters are now well into there 30's we have families,jobs, we do not have the time to pull the 8 hour gaming sessions anymore as we once did nor do we have the patience or desire to listen to 15 year olds who want everything right then and there and will degrade and troll anyone who stands in there so called path.I got better things to do as a adult than babysit someones child.
I still group and have fun with the friends I CHOOSE I don't have to tolerate douchebags just to advance my character.Those days are gone and they are never coming back to the genre get over it move on or find another genre of game you wanna play.
An MMO with more roleplaying than any game is quite awhile is not an MMORPG? I will agree with you that MMO's as a whole have gone downhill when it comes to player dependancy.
Remember spending 30 minutes walking to a summon stone in WoW?
Story is not role-playing, actually it encompasses the acts and decisions that the player takes in order to make their character their own –the constructing their characters into a unique manifestation of their will. Role-playing a character in an RPG is no different from the processes we all went through as children playing with action figures. We created personas and personalities, histories and previous adventures which defined those characters’ natures. We invented adventures on the fly for them to participate in, with specific outcomes. Completing a static set of quests towards fufillment of a narrative, is not role-playing, it's a book piecemeal.
Once upon a time, MMO(RPG)s had what was called player interdependency, wherein one player with a certain set of skills was required for another player with specific skills to progress. There were no classes, which honestly, is just character progression for dummies. Each player needed other players in order to progress and develop their characters. This is the reason why communities in MMO(RPG)s were once amazing things. Today, they are filled with immature spoiled brats running around with daddy's credit card uttering leet speak.
Call me a dinosaur if you wish, but MMO(RPG)s were better in the past, and what we have today is doing nothing but catering to instant gratification and the dumbing down of games. People have no imagination anymore, they are happy to be force fed their entertainment.
The only thing people like you miss is having this false sense on control of being able to make others depend on you for there own enjoyment of a game they paid for.And yes I am a mmo dino as you say also from UO to Eq1 to SWTOR to everything in between.Your the kinda player who wants the game to FORCE ppl to depend on you for your own self worth and enjoyment to have to have em log in sit and spam for a group for 2 hours to find out they rolled a class no one wanted or needed for there group so they could log off getting nothing at all done.Yes the good ole days as you call em.
The only thing people like you miss is having this false sense on control of being able to make others depend on you for there own enjoyment of a game they paid for.And yes I am a mmo dino as you say also from UO to Eq1 to SWTOR to everything in between.Your the kinda player who wants the game to FORCE ppl to depend on you for your own self worth and enjoyment to have to have em log in sit and spam for a group for 2 hours to find out they rolled a class no one wanted or needed for there group so they could log off getting nothing at all done.Yes the good ole days as you call em.
Bitter?
First of all you do not know me, and you are totally wrong in your representation of me. So perhaps you should back up just a tad, Mk... The aspect of player inter-dependency is not so that people can get off on a power or control trip, it is simply as I stated. It is the fact the interdependency allows for community development and growth. In any game I played I was never in a position of control, and even if I had that capability, the things I produced were given to the benefit of my guild or friends. It sounds to me as though you ran into some rather unscrupulous individuals in previous games, and we are not all like that.
The only thing people like you miss is having this false sense on control of being able to make others depend on you for there own enjoyment of a game they paid for.And yes I am a mmo dino as you say also from UO to Eq1 to SWTOR to everything in between.Your the kinda player who wants the game to FORCE ppl to depend on you for your own self worth and enjoyment to have to have em log in sit and spam for a group for 2 hours to find out they rolled a class no one wanted or needed for there group so they could log off getting nothing at all done.Yes the good ole days as you call em.
First of all you do not know me, and you are totally wrong in your representation of me. The aspect of player dependency is not that I could get off on a power or control trip, it was simply as I stated. It is the fact the interdependency allows for community development and growth. In any game I played I was never in a position of control, and even if I had that capability, the things I produced were given to the benefit of my guild or friends. It sounds to me as though you ran into some rather unscrupulous individuals in previous games, and we are not all like that.
Or it could be you judge and think all new gen mmogs are trash because the genre moved forward and widened the access to all people.Do I miss some of my old mmogs and the community ? For sure but that time is gone and will not be back for alot of reasons.Back then you had Eq1 at one time being top dog when they boasted 300-350k subs now you got WoW with 11 million or w/e your never gonna get that tight community feel again in a mmog unless you go into the game even WoW and make it with a group of like minded people.Any good game that comes out your gonna be dealin with roughly 5x the population a Eq1 had back in that time period.
And no not bitter at all I moved along with the genre.I still enjoy the games I play as much as I did back then.I have been on both ends of the spectrum from raiding in games as far back as Eq1 to WoW to being a casual player just enjoying the game.What I got a problem with is alot of bitter people who hate people who wanna solo and then cry about it non stop on how thats killed the genre.There is still grouping available in all games just because you can solo doesn't mean you have to or that all people do.The difference now is your not FORCED to depend on other people to advance your character I fail to see where that is a negative for the genre or the people who pay to play the game.
Comments
The EQ era died with dark age of camelot, eq2, Vanguard Saga of heroes, and all the good stuff that mmorpgs used to be about. No more housing, no more being able to leave your mark on an mmorpg. In today's mmorpg world, you are just another instanced battle ground target, fighting for gear points and otherwise factional interests. Nothing you do in pve or pvp will amount to anything for anyone in your faction - welcome to the era of video games with an mmorpg title.
What they need to call these things is MMOVG = Massively Multiplayer Online Video Game. EQ was an mmo RPG (Role Playing Game). It's all dudespeak, gold spammers, free to play, and wuts up pwn face leet talk.
/rip mmoRPG
If there's one thing I'm fed up with in MMOs then its seeing crowd doing nothing but spamming chat with lfg requests. There's no difference between that and waiting in a lobby.
I agree with you 100% (and in fact used the "different strokes" comment in several other threads myself!)
The folks who like SW:TOR's story will probably like playing SW:TOR. The folks who don't care much for story (at all), or who don't care specifically for the (likely cliche) stories that SW:TOR has to offer won't enjoy the game as much - for those people, it probably doesn't amount to much more than "WoW with lightsabers".
I think it will be interesting to see what happens with this one. On the one hand, if SW:TOR is succesful (in the long run), it might signal an entirely new direction for the MMORPG market... but one that will most likely be very tough to follow (given the extreme expense of doing such a story-immersive MMO). On the other hand, if SW:TOR isn't succesful, it will be interesting to see if anybody can come up with something that's both "different/innovative" while at the same time being fun to lots of people for a long time to come. If not... well... the mousewheel continues to spin...
Are you aware this game just came out? I am confused how you expect people to group up in an MMO? How are they supposed to meet new people? find a guild if typing LF1M MR need tank bugs you that much? It may be time for you to run off to the XBOX.
I personally think the adding of dungeon finders takes away from the community. I enjoy finding new people to run Flashpoints with if they are good we add them to our guild.
Totally agree with the OP. Luckily I was able to get into the "free trial" aka the big open beta weekend. I would have been disappointed dropping 60 bucks on this title also. I can't remember the last time an MMO has felt less massive/multiplayer. To SWTOR's credit though they did knock the roleplaying portion out of the ballpark.
80% of the game mechanics of EverQuest you cant find in the current shallow trend of an "MMORPG". I personally miss these game mechanics and design philosophies like No Hand holding which unchains the community from being forced to go back and firthe in a pre-determined path which orevents you, the player, from getting the proper freedom to actually be in the world among othet players. Also the fact that you can kill anyone but face the consequences. The fact that night is dark. Complex non-instanced dungeong. The world is never convenient for you, it was a dangerous world. I can write a book about this... But i know for sure it is not nostalgia.... it is the game design choices... i want a modern version of what an mmorpg should supposr to be and all what i get is a shallow experience.
First off, I'm not slamming SWTOR in any way, so fanboi's don't have to get all up in my face about my comments.
I realize that any games that are new or on the horizon will never replace the sentiment I have towards my first mmo, but I really blame that on a lack of ingenuity on the developers behalf. SWTOR chose to use an existing model, and though proven it may be, it sets itself up to be compared to it's predecessors. GW2 is changing the mould a bit, and look at the response from the fanbase. The next generation of games will change things even more. Too many games have adopted a new skin onto a stagnant mechanic. There is room to create the best mmo ever, but it will never be created by making the same thing as we had already.
I know that there is much greater possibilities then the developers allow us to explore, and there are probably more causes to this stagnation then I care to understand. The point is, there is improvements that can be brought out, if the developers would just make them a reality.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Really its simple math. The people who really enjoy the game are playing it and the haters are here posting. Thats why most of the posts are flames or trolls.
Which is all well and good, however to produce these genre busting, mind blowing advances in gameplay, exploration and player freedom requires an exponential amount of resources, a bit like the "light barrier".
While many of the jaded side of the community like to wallow in the "drudgery" , in what happens to be some of the defining mechanics of a genre, the majority of people see it for what it is, a pastime, a hobby, a game. While those who provide us with this form of enterainment see it, righlty, as a business first and a passion second. As such all things that require resources and material risk there has to be a limit.
When GW2 launches it will be the same story, in fact I am certain there are those whom frequent these boards that are serial idolisers of "saviour games" in development who move on to the next development as soon as their current fantasy reaches gold.
Merry Christmas to you all
Thats so wrong its not even funny, I mean there is some true into this, but if you use that argumentation to anything related to computer its pretty ridiculous to say the least, since computer stuff evolve so damn fast, seam like you get some payement for bad PR by some shitty company tbh. They are pleinty of games on the marked that blow away the older games, if you don't know that, you clearly are very new to gaming. If you still beleive in what you are saying go play "pack man" and see how it is fun for the new kids like you, still full of enthusiasm! Computer games evolve tremendously, beleive it or not, thats what happen. I don't even understand how some poeple like you could have come with that kind of logic you are using here? Some people really have some free time to come up with such twisted logic, to explain the crap they are doing.
Original poster is right they spent so much money and the game is pure garbage. The movement is horrible, the camera angels suck, the quests are lame, the world is not alive , The game feels more like a single player RPG than an MMO. All in all Good points from the OP I agree completely but lucky for me I got to try the beta and was able to cancel my preorder so i saved myself from this disaster!
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
It is the search for a MMO nevarda that has kept old players buying these games. That and the tendancy of teenagers to have zero MMO loyalty has created this great wilderbeast of MMO players who forever ride to the next best watering hole.
It seam a lot of gamer repeat what they read on forum and have zero thinking power. Why Wow player play this game for 5 to 10 years then. Is the Wow generation the vet of mmo now? Damn i must very old then. New gen is as fidel to mmo as it was back then in my days when the 1r mmo launched. Both gen played for 5 to 10 year their 1r mmo.
The Old Republic might be an MMO (and I think that is really pushing the term hard), but it certainly isn't an MMORPG. I honestly think its closer to a CORPG than an MMO. This stands to reason considering that most gamers these days just simply can't be bothered to group, and one of the frequently asked questions is, "Can I solo it?". Please, the whole point of a MMORPG is to play with other people, and if the majority of content (not all, but the majority) is designed around the solo mentality, then it really isn't a MMO(RPG).
CORPGs mechanics are designed first and foremost around solo gameplay, with 'optional' multiplayer elements. I keep hearing the same thing from propontents of SWTOR, that they like this aspect because it doesn't force them to group, and thus my case is made. Also this is what makes the game world feel shallow, because it is the inherent nature of solo mechanics to prevent impactful change on the world, and so nothing you do as a participant in that world changes anything. Someone doing the same quest can come alond behind the previous player and do the exact same thing and there is no impact at all, other than you gained some loot and a few experience points. Oh, and you progessed in the 'story'.
Once upon a time, MMO(RPG)s had what was called player interdependency, wherein one player with a certain set of skills was required for another player with specific skills to progress. There were no classes, which honestly, is just character progression for dummies. Each player needed other players in order to progress and develop their characters. This is the reason why communities in MMO(RPG)s were once amazing things. Today, they are filled with immature spoiled brats running around with daddy's credit card uttering leet speak.
Call me a dinosaur if you wish, but MMO(RPG)s were better in the past, and what we have today is doing nothing but catering to instant gratification and the dumbing down of games. People have no imagination anymore, they are happy to be force fed their entertainment.
Well said. The need for soloing in MMO's is slowly killing the genre, something which the soloers don't even realise. Look at the thread on the Pub - General Discussion, they even want to be able to have an alternate option to complete raids solo so they don't have to group up to do it. If things continue, we'll be paying a monthly subscription for single player games.
You are getting old Requiamer, you have been on here since 2005 thats nearly 7 years. The oldest MMO player cannot have put in more than 15 years (When UO started, yes I know there were a couple of MMO like games before that.)
We are part of the older MMO generation, if you are still on WoW after all these years (not sure) good luck to you. But most people who joined when you did are long gone, MMOs are a transient stop offs, compaired to the online worlds they once were.
Imo, the developers (not just BW), should look for inovative ways to weave the desire for soloing, with grouping and Social aspects, to create a system that can deliver both, but not at the expense of each other.
I think some of such things, will come in the form of additional side content, outside the typcial level advance, that is social in nature, and thus something that would help motivate players to actively interact with each other in the game world.
Not meaning to be to pedantic here but The Realm launched in 1995,i was playing it so i should know UO launched in 1997,and yeah i agree with your other points but Vanguard is still flying the flag and getting some love now at last.
An MMO with more roleplaying than any game is quite awhile is not an MMORPG? I will agree with you that MMO's as a whole have gone downhill when it comes to player dependancy.
Remember spending 30 minutes walking to a summon stone in WoW?
If you don't like a game don't play it, and quit running to MMORPG.com to trash it.
Wrong Soloing isn't killin the genre it's the me generation who want to troll on everyone with no consquence that is killin the genre.Most of the early mmog adapters are now well into there 30's we have families,jobs, we do not have the time to pull the 8 hour gaming sessions anymore as we once did nor do we have the patience or desire to listen to 15 year olds who want everything right then and there and will degrade and troll anyone who stands in there so called path.I got better things to do as a adult than babysit someones child.
I still group and have fun with the friends I CHOOSE I don't have to tolerate douchebags just to advance my character.Those days are gone and they are never coming back to the genre get over it move on or find another genre of game you wanna play.
Story is not role-playing, actually it encompasses the acts and decisions that the player takes in order to make their character their own –the constructing their characters into a unique manifestation of their will. Role-playing a character in an RPG is no different from the processes we all went through as children playing with action figures. We created personas and personalities, histories and previous adventures which defined those characters’ natures. We invented adventures on the fly for them to participate in, with specific outcomes. Completing a static set of quests towards fufillment of a narrative, is not role-playing, it's a book piecemeal.
The only thing people like you miss is having this false sense on control of being able to make others depend on you for there own enjoyment of a game they paid for.And yes I am a mmo dino as you say also from UO to Eq1 to SWTOR to everything in between.Your the kinda player who wants the game to FORCE ppl to depend on you for your own self worth and enjoyment to have to have em log in sit and spam for a group for 2 hours to find out they rolled a class no one wanted or needed for there group so they could log off getting nothing at all done.Yes the good ole days as you call em.
Bitter?
First of all you do not know me, and you are totally wrong in your representation of me. So perhaps you should back up just a tad, Mk... The aspect of player inter-dependency is not so that people can get off on a power or control trip, it is simply as I stated. It is the fact the interdependency allows for community development and growth. In any game I played I was never in a position of control, and even if I had that capability, the things I produced were given to the benefit of my guild or friends. It sounds to me as though you ran into some rather unscrupulous individuals in previous games, and we are not all like that.
Or it could be you judge and think all new gen mmogs are trash because the genre moved forward and widened the access to all people.Do I miss some of my old mmogs and the community ? For sure but that time is gone and will not be back for alot of reasons.Back then you had Eq1 at one time being top dog when they boasted 300-350k subs now you got WoW with 11 million or w/e your never gonna get that tight community feel again in a mmog unless you go into the game even WoW and make it with a group of like minded people.Any good game that comes out your gonna be dealin with roughly 5x the population a Eq1 had back in that time period.
And no not bitter at all I moved along with the genre.I still enjoy the games I play as much as I did back then.I have been on both ends of the spectrum from raiding in games as far back as Eq1 to WoW to being a casual player just enjoying the game.What I got a problem with is alot of bitter people who hate people who wanna solo and then cry about it non stop on how thats killed the genre.There is still grouping available in all games just because you can solo doesn't mean you have to or that all people do.The difference now is your not FORCED to depend on other people to advance your character I fail to see where that is a negative for the genre or the people who pay to play the game.